Hello all 
first of all, sorry for the delay in posting this, for which I am to blame (workfest week and changing machines...).
Here it goes, i'll try also to make a small report, also for presentation at the next SPC meeting.
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Object-Name: notetaker 2.0.1 Sudane's
Region: Neufreistadt (246528, 249600)
Local-Position: (141, 157, 172)
Meeting on 2006-07-09
Those present:
Sudane Erato is in the chair.
Moon Adamant: hmmm
Sudane Erato: ok... recording
Moon Adamant: where is it?!
Moon Adamant: ah!
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato: on the ground... to your left 
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Aliasi Stonebender: touched it.
Sudane Erato: 
Jon Seattle: I touched it too
Moon Adamant: ok 
Moon Adamant: so
Moon Adamant: we have a few tasks as you can see
Sudane Erato: yes!
Moon Adamant: some of tehm are a bit hmmm
Moon Adamant: long to address
Sudane Erato: 
Moon Adamant: we'll have to discuss tehm carefully
Moon Adamant: my proposal is that we try to discuss teh easisest ones first, so we can clear work
Sudane Erato: good
Moon Adamant: and sorry about the thousands i'll make during theis meeting 
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: easiest bit is teh Texture bank
Sudane Erato: ahhh.
Moon Adamant: i am setting a ftp server in an old, old recycled machine here
Sudane Erato: oh!
Sudane Erato: and thats where they will be?
Moon Adamant: that is one way to do it as soon as i can get a disk larger than 2 GB 
Sudane Erato: hehe
Jon Seattle nods
Moon Adamant: it would be better, though, that they'd be kept along teh knowledge database
Sudane Erato: couldn't we all contribute to a stash here?
Moon Adamant: yes
Sudane Erato: that way we don't each have to upload?
Jon Seattle nods
Moon Adamant: hmmmm
Moon Adamant: ok for final work, of course
Eldalin Uram: hi
Jon Seattle: Hello Eldalin
Eldalin Uram: can i sit with?
Sudane Erato: hello 
Moon Adamant: and we can even have a prim bank for them
Sudane Erato: sure 
Moon Adamant: dsaluton eldalin 
Eldalin Uram: saluton :p
Eldalin Uram: dobrij djen', moj komrad!
Moon Adamant: even making typos at esperanto too... and only know three words, lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: anyway
Eldalin Uram: h?h?
Moon Adamant: i propose that yes, a prim texture bank be set here for final textures
Moon Adamant: set to a group... normal process there
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: so we can all insert
Eldalin Uram: i'll come back
Moon Adamant: but i think we'll be running around to one another at first 'oh, do you have a mosaic? do you have a tile?'
Eldalin Uram: i want to see something
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Sudane Erato: yes.... I guess...
Sudane Erato: or else choosing things that maybe others wouldn't approve of 
Moon Adamant: of course we can make use of email (i am actually using my gmail as a sort of my private texture bank now, lol - since it is actually bigger than the disk i have at ftp server' 
Sudane Erato: ahhh... yes 
Sudane Erato: hehe
Jon Seattle: very clever
Moon Adamant: anyway, if joining the eventual texture bank to teh knowledge database, we must know if there is room for it there
Moon Adamant: but there are alternatives anyway, that is teh point
Sudane Erato: what will be the "knowledge database"?
Moon Adamant: well, the bureau workgroup has a task of reserach
Sudane Erato: i see
1
Sudane Erato: everything we know about Rome?
Moon Adamant: they will be looking for stuff, adding to the knowledge database we built of links for the proposal
Moon Adamant: lol, everything is a big word 
Moon Adamant: specially when dealing with Rome
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: but... thats the idea
Moon Adamant: but it will have the archives of site and firums
Sudane Erato: since we are recreating it
Moon Adamant: it is really meant , i think, as a sort of backoffice if anyone wants to do a themed project
Sudane Erato: ahhh... nice
Moon Adamant: that at least was our original spirit
Sudane Erato: i see
Moon Adamant: anyway, moving on
Moon Adamant: we can begin looking for graphical data related to the theme
Sudane Erato: sure
Jon Seattle nods
Aliasi Stonebender: hm
Moon Adamant: and later on discuss if/where it will be put togethe r, and how it will be accessed
Aliasi Stonebender: there's a thing that we in Squidsoft are using to keep track of tasks in Suffugium, that might be useful here as well.
Sudane Erato: the textures...
Moon Adamant: ah Aliasi?
Moon Adamant: and Sudane?
Aliasi Stonebender: ah, here we go
Aliasi Stonebender: http://webcollab.sourceforge.net/
Sudane Erato: discuss where the texs will be put, and how they will be accessed?
Sudane Erato: oh!
Moon Adamant: thanks Aliasi
Jon Seattle: Thanks! Interesting.
Jon Seattle: Alisasi, is it working well for you?
Moon Adamant: hmmm, maybe i can to post this as a suggestion for other wg too?
Sudane Erato: makes sense
Moon Adamant: ok 
Aliasi Stonebender: yes!
Aliasi Stonebender: it keeps all the tasks in order, very handy.
Moon Adamant: as for your question Sudane
Moon Adamant: (it might even be handy for me too IRL, lol)
Jon Seattle: It might have even broader applications here
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: lol... organized people jumping at an organizing tool 
Jon Seattle laughs
Moon Adamant: anyway
Moon Adamant: if teh texture bank be created, inside teh knowledge base, there are two things we must think on:
Moon Adamant: first is: rights on that work, and how to take care of that?
Moon Adamant: and two is: how will they pass eventually to become city's property?
Sudane Erato: well... I am working with Diderot right now on Contract Templates
Sudane Erato: which define all this
Moon Adamant: right now i am thinking more in thse broader issues
Moon Adamant: yes, that is one thing i'd liekto ask you
Moon Adamant: have you heard of him on that? 
Sudane Erato: yes..
Moon Adamant: ah, good!
Sudane Erato: he's finally come thru with 3 drafts
Sudane Erato: and they look *very* good
Moon Adamant: 
Sudane Erato: just a bit of trweaking
Moon Adamant: ok
Sudane Erato: and I think we should use them for this work as well
Moon Adamant: ok, that can be our suggestion
Moon Adamant: i want to use them for other thing too, lol - as you know 
Sudane Erato: sure!
Sudane Erato: all of the work here should be covered
2
Moon Adamant: but i'll wait till they're fully implemnted to pass teh bridge and sites 
Sudane Erato: sure
Sudane Erato: it'll be shortly
Moon Adamant: good 
Moon Adamant: ok
Sudane Erato: they're really important
Moon Adamant: they are inded!
Moon Adamant: i think also that they should be used later on too for teh CN (final) plan, covenants, etc
Sudane Erato: hmm.... thats interesting
Moon Adamant: so there is no doubt that teh city can use them
Sudane Erato: the basic thrust is that the City has only a non-exclusive license
Sudane Erato: to use them
Moon Adamant: ok
Sudane Erato: that the craetors can reuse them elsewhere
Sudane Erato: unless we buy something outright
Moon Adamant: hmmmm
Sudane Erato: which I think will be rare
Moon Adamant: that is something that teh legal wg shoul adress
Moon Adamant: becase, you see, there will be at least 2 plans
Sudane Erato: ok...
Moon Adamant: original and final
Sudane Erato: sure
Moon Adamant: (and most possibly a few versions in between lol)
Dnate Mars: sorry I am late
Sudane Erato: hehe...
Moon Adamant: np Dnate
and hello 
Jon Seattle: Hi Dnate
Sudane Erato: welcome!
Moon Adamant: this is being recorded, btw
Moon Adamant: recorder is by my left
Aliasi Stonebender: anything you say can, and probably will, be used against you.
Moon Adamant: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe... yep 
Dnate Mars has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant: about what he have already discussed
Moon Adamant: we were talking about rights over the plan, and work over the plan
Sudane Erato: yes
Moon Adamant: we will make a suggestion that the templates that Diderot has prepared be used, when they are ready to be used
Moon Adamant: and more or less were shoving this issue now into hands of bureua WG 
Sudane Erato: hehe... yes
Sudane Erato: altho I think they will be in good shape
Moon Adamant: we discussed also teh creation of a texture bank, also covered by these legal documents... which can or not be added to teh knowledge base that the Bureu WG will create
Moon Adamant: ok
Moon Adamant: Archaelogical Dig
Sudane Erato: 
Moon Adamant: (i think Salzie can't make it after all)
Dnate Mars: she is out tanning....
Sudane Erato: she hasn't appeared in world
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: yes
Moon Adamant: archaelogical dig demands that a production of content be already made
Jon Seattle: She was making some german dish that I could not possibly eat IRL, but sounded quite good
Moon Adamant: lol... eisbein? 
Moon Adamant: that's the knee of a pig 
Sudane Erato: hehe...
Sudane Erato: yum! 
Jon Seattle: Called Zweibelkuchen
Moon Adamant: i have been told it is quite good, actually, but never felt too interested myself 
Jon Seattle shrugs
Sudane Erato: kuchen... cookies?
Jon Seattle smiles
Moon Adamant: lol
Jon Seattle: Onion pie, with eggs, bacon, all that stuff
Moon Adamant: ah ok
Sudane Erato: oh!
Sudane Erato: it does sound good! 
Moon Adamant: and caloric, lol
Sudane Erato: hehe..
Moon Adamant: anyway
3
Jon Seattle nods to Moon
Dnate Mars: what is the Archaelogical Dig?
Moon Adamant: in which way can we help teh promotion WG on this?
Moon Adamant: ah Dnate
Moon Adamant: Salzie has got this idea
Moon Adamant: which is brilliant
Moon Adamant: that to account for (also) the trench in altenstadt
Jon Seattle: brb
Moon Adamant: we'd set an archaelogical dig there
Sudane Erato: yes
Moon Adamant: in which we'd find all thse roman artifacts 
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: this would be a promotion hmmm stunt?
Sudane Erato: yes
Moon Adamant: imagine taht you set a ficticious blog, say, describing the findings
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: imagine that people can actually come and dig somehow
Sudane Erato: yes,, neat
Moon Adamant: (i am trying to remember who once had done a dig in which you coudl actually DIG... not sure if Eggy)
Sudane Erato: thats weird
Moon Adamant: i can try and ask if it was him who did that
Sudane Erato: sure
Moon Adamant: anyway
Jon Seattle nods
Moon Adamant: how can we help the promotion WG?
Sudane Erato: well... obviously by building this thing?
Sudane Erato: do you need volunteers?
Moon Adamant: lol, yes
Sudane Erato: who will build it?
Dnate Mars: what are we building?
Sudane Erato: the discovered ruins 
Jon Seattle: I wonder if we could start with an actual RL dig in an intesting place and recreate some of it.
Moon Adamant: well, that is another question
Sudane Erato: I mean... I could create some ruins! 
Moon Adamant: i'd say a ruined villa possibly... some vases and stuff
Sudane Erato: np
)
Sudane Erato: sure
Moon Adamant: well, i am also closing personal stuff now so i can begin working for CN
Moon Adamant: so i can do work for it too
Moon Adamant: we must ask Salzie when does she want to start doing this, i think
Sudane Erato: well... we could have it anyway
Moon Adamant: and somehow we must workl around teh fact that we are theoretically a consultive group, lol
Sudane Erato: and she could promote it only later
Sudane Erato: oh!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: i thought we were here to work!
)
Moon Adamant: hmmm, i have Eggy online now - let me ask him that thing
Sudane Erato: sure
Moon Adamant: lol, relax that a lot of work is coming by 
Sudane Erato: haha
Aliasi Stonebender: I worked around it mostly by doing as I wished and daring anyone to say otherwise, but I confess that's probably a charm unique to me.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: well, not completely 
Moon Adamant: ok Eggy says
Aliasi Stonebender: not completely, no.
Sudane Erato: 
Moon Adamant: that he and a friend did some shovels that actually terraformed land 
Sudane Erato: oh my!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: 
Sudane Erato: I can spot trouble!
Sudane Erato: from overenthusiastic tourists 
Moon Adamant: hmmm, let me ask if they can be used only by a group or something...
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Moon Adamant: so the Dig would be set to a Group
Sudane Erato: yes...
Moon Adamant: and shovels would only work there
4
Sudane Erato: only officers of the group
Sudane Erato: could terraform
Sudane Erato: unless the Edit Land option was set
Sudane Erato: which is a no-no
Moon Adamant: he'll check if he still has them... if not he says (Eggy-like, lol) that it is very easy to do and that he can do that in 5 minutes 
Sudane Erato: haha
Moon Adamant: this si something we can tell Salzie
Sudane Erato: 
Moon Adamant: so she can plan teh stunt having that in mind
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: ok
Moon Adamant: so can we tell promotion WG that we can fix some dig content?
Moon Adamant: yes Jon?
Sudane Erato: sure!
Jon Seattle: I will have to go.. RL interrupting. Please tell me if there is anything I can do to help later.
Moon Adamant: ah ok 
Moon Adamant: have fun Jon, thanks for showing up 
Jon Seattle smiles at everyone and waves bye
Sudane Erato: yes!
Sudane Erato: bye now 
Moon Adamant: ok
Moon Adamant: now for difficult things
Sudane Erato: 
Moon Adamant: i wanted to ask you one question Sudane?
Sudane Erato: sure
Moon Adamant: i know you have Sky Honey's script
Sudane Erato: ahhh...
Moon Adamant: can it be edited so it reads altitude too and feeds a map?
Sudane Erato: not exactly
Sudane Erato: i'm trying to get her to finish it...
Sudane Erato: and deliver everything to Gwyn..
Sudane Erato: to be hosted on our site
Sudane Erato: but... as to your specific question
Moon Adamant: ok
Sudane Erato: it does not read altitude...
Sudane Erato: however...
Sudane Erato: it will have the ability to display overlays
Sudane Erato: so..
Sudane Erato: if we can generate altitude
Sudane Erato: we could do that
Moon Adamant: well, teher is a function in LSL that reads coords
Sudane Erato: height?
Moon Adamant: i suppose this one of those 5 minute scripts too lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: yes, reads XYZ
Sudane Erato: oh!
Moon Adamant: ok
Sudane Erato: well... i guess it could be added
Aliasi Stonebender: yes,that's trivisl.
Aliasi Stonebender: trivial.
Moon Adamant: reason to this is obviously the west edge of this sim
Sudane Erato: I have asked Eloise to pick up where Sky leaves off
Moon Adamant: and teh way this sim will seam up to CN
Sudane Erato: yes
Dnate Mars: why not just use llGround?
Moon Adamant: ah, Comadre can do that, i am sure 
Dnate Mars: that would be easy to add
Sudane Erato: welll... you have to survey the 4096 data points
Moon Adamant: yes
Sudane Erato: its more of a data question
Sudane Erato: at least thats how we're approaching it
Moon Adamant: even if only along west edge points, if interval would be 4 m, you still have to do 64 readings
Dnate Mars: can we get the RAW file that LL used to make this land?
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: i dont know??
Aliasi Stonebender: estate tools, sudane.
Moon Adamant: that is another question
Dnate Mars: or maybe get an export of the current RAW file?
Sudane Erato: do we actually get the file?
Aliasi Stonebender: only estate owner can, but yes.
Sudane Erato: oh!
Dnate Mars: ask Cyn or Lee
5
Moon Adamant: when we download taht raw file, doe sit reflect teh sim as it is now?
Aliasi Stonebender: i believe so.
Sudane Erato: right
Sudane Erato: yes... I see
Sudane Erato: Rudeen could
Moon Adamant: i mean, does teh sys somehow generate a new .raw file when you ask?
Sudane Erato: and she can give it to you
Moon Adamant: because that is an alternative too
Moon Adamant: ok
Moon Adamant: that would be good, i could then sample some points and see if they fitted
Dnate Mars: I think it does moon
Aliasi Stonebender: i don't know exactly how it works, not owning an estate.
Moon Adamant: ok
Dnate Mars: if we have a RAW file, we can just create a new RAW for the new sim based on the old one
Sudane Erato: yes... and upload it
Moon Adamant: we'll have a look at that raw file then
Moon Adamant: yes exactly
Sudane Erato: both upload and download are available
Moon Adamant: you can do that from the altimetric plan for CN too
Moon Adamant: and will do that in fact
Sudane Erato: ahhh... neat!
Dnate Mars: if we get a new sim, we should just give them the rw file
Moon Adamant: but now we must discuss some other points
Sudane Erato: and then we'll match them
Moon Adamant: you don't need to give them, Dnate, owner can upload directly now
Dnate Mars: oh, even better
Moon Adamant: ok
Dnate Mars: is rudeen going to be the owner of both sims?
Moon Adamant: how will thse seam up?
Moon Adamant: Dnate, we don't know that yet
Sudane Erato: well... the big question I think is the mean altitude
Sudane Erato: if itys close
Dnate Mars: are we going to use the same textures?
Sudane Erato: then it will be np
Sudane Erato: if its extremely lower
Sudane Erato: then we have a prob
Moon Adamant: Dnate , yes, because there will be a continuity in land.... (even if a topographical sperarator)
Moon Adamant: idea is that CN and NFS are close to each other in a territory
Sudane Erato: hmmmm
Moon Adamant: so no sandy textures in one, and snow on other
Sudane Erato: right...
Sudane Erato: makes sense
Dnate Mars: I think we need to have a seemless transition, meaning the same heights at the borders
Moon Adamant: ok
Moon Adamant: ah Dnate
Moon Adamant: that comes to my next point
Moon Adamant: there atm two major concerns:
Moon Adamant: 1. Clouds
Moon Adamant: 2. we have a somewhat fee covenant in NFS neighbouring a themed covenant in CN
Sudane Erato: the clouds are np,k i think
Moon Adamant: clouds is linked to teh altitude question
Sudane Erato: yes... and I presume we do not want them in CN
Dnate Mars: the clouds won't be a issue, we will be much lower then were we are now
Moon Adamant: since CN is sloping down from VR hill in NFS
Sudane Erato: it is easy to be below them
Moon Adamant: ah, but you do have a bit of CN that is above 150 m
Sudane Erato: my garden is only partway down the hill here
Moon Adamant: and i have checked the other day
Sudane Erato: and I have no clouds
Moon Adamant: and fog starts at 150 m
Dnate Mars: we are very high up here where the clouds are
6
Moon Adamant: at 170 m you get this hmmm brothy fog lol
Sudane Erato: 20m is not far to go down
Moon Adamant: we stand now at 170 m
Dnate Mars: 173
Moon Adamant: and the bridge is level to where we are
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: yes
Moon Adamant: and the bridge is teh connection
Moon Adamant: ok
Moon Adamant: this is point 1
Sudane Erato: Lucid is selling
Moon Adamant: about point 2
Sudane Erato: we could buy his land
Moon Adamant: oh?
Sudane Erato: and form it downwards
Moon Adamant: hmmm
Dnate Mars: I think the only thing that might be in the clouds is the amphitheatre
Moon Adamant: that is an idea, he owns VR?
Sudane Erato: yes..
Sudane Erato: the corner parcels
Moon Adamant: i thought VR belonged to Garnet
Moon Adamant: hmmm
Sudane Erato: in fact the only parcels in NW Viertel
Sudane Erato: other than Salzies
Sudane Erato: all the rest are city owned prim land
Moon Adamant: that falls under our competence at this WG to make a suggestion or no to buy that land
Sudane Erato: yes
Moon Adamant: ok
Sudane Erato: he is quite wanting to sell
Sudane Erato: not abandon
Moon Adamant: so we must make sure that it is needed
Dnate Mars: hmm... what is he asking?
Sudane Erato: well... we can always resell... once we have shaped it
Sudane Erato: 10,000
Moon Adamant: ok
Dnate Mars: what size?
Moon Adamant: i was looking at teh area the other day
Sudane Erato: ahhh.... 5.95/m2
Sudane Erato: I forget the size
Moon Adamant: and we have np lowing down the slope, since it is the prim pools plots
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: on that side, anyway
Aliasi Stonebender: (beg pardon, have to hold down the fort... I think y'all are clueful enough to manage without me sitting here, though. *grin*)
Sudane Erato: and on the other side too!
Moon Adamant: bridge will need to have a bit of modelling though, possibly - to make it shorter, possibly
Dnate Mars: the road will need to be moved also
Moon Adamant: lol, ok Aliasi 
Sudane Erato: well... sloped down
Dnate Mars: yes
Moon Adamant: yes Dnate
Sudane Erato: they whole pattern should be re-envisioned
Sudane Erato: a straight line might not be the nicest
Moon Adamant: hmmm, you cna ave the chance then
Sudane Erato: hehe...
Moon Adamant: 
Moon Adamant: ok
Dnate Mars: I like striaght lines.....
Sudane Erato: love to 
Sudane Erato: I like cirves 
Sudane Erato: *curves
Moon Adamant: i liek complicated straight lines 
Sudane Erato: hehe...
Sudane Erato: some committee!
Moon Adamant: lol
Sudane Erato: never agree on anything!
Moon Adamant: oh, we're cutting through work beautifully
Moon Adamant: ok
Sudane Erato: 
Moon Adamant: 2. is a bit trickier
Moon Adamant: because it doesn't rely only in a techical question of being able to terrraform up or down
Moon Adamant: it has to do with continuity
Sudane Erato: the seam?
Sudane Erato: what is the issue there?
Moon Adamant: well, can we have villas besides the NFS stadt? should there be something separating them?
Moon Adamant: if yes, what?
7
Dnate Mars: I see an issue with 2 completely different themes sitting right next teachother
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Sudane Erato: I see
Sudane Erato: but... thinking about that
Dnate Mars: that is why we need to have the voids
Moon Adamant: this was mentioned
Dnate Mars: but yet we are not to that level yet
Sudane Erato: the houses on the boundary are not so "un-Roman"
Moon Adamant: ah, Dnate
Moon Adamant: we are at that level yet
Moon Adamant: already
Moon Adamant: because you see
Moon Adamant: hmmm
Moon Adamant: say you decide
Dnate Mars: we can afford an extra 195 per month plus the 1250 startup??
Moon Adamant: that there will be a line of forest between the two sims
Moon Adamant: as you don't want to compromise the builds already on stadt side, and teh parcels
Moon Adamant: forest must be set totally on CN side
Moon Adamant: which has a very strcit prim count and guidelines for occupation
Moon Adamant: so
Sudane Erato: a great wall 
Moon Adamant: if you decide taht, you must ask the RA to revise teh guidelines for CN - say that instead of 50-40-10 it becomes 50-35-15
Moon Adamant: see?
Dnate Mars: blah!
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: now I see
Dnate Mars: no sir, I don't like it
Moon Adamant: or say
Moon Adamant: another alternative
Moon Adamant: you make the plots bordering the seam a bit larger
Dnate Mars: I like the idea.... but.... hmmm...
Moon Adamant: which has minor implications on roads
Moon Adamant: you plat trees bordering the edge
Moon Adamant: and by covenant those tress can't be touched
Sudane Erato: they can be on prim land
Dnate Mars: is not one of the plots the theater?
Gxeremio Dimsum: Hello.
Moon Adamant: or you say that at all times, those owners must keep a green coverage ratio of N, corresponding to X trees
Gxeremio Dimsum: Saluton
Sudane Erato: hello 
Dnate Mars: hi
Moon Adamant: saluton gxeremio
Moon Adamant: building WG meeting
Dnate Mars: hmm...
Moon Adamant: 
Dnate Mars: do we have a long term plan?
Moon Adamant: so as you can see, these are matters that must be decided at plan phase
Dnate Mars: like a 5, 10, 20 sim plan?
Moon Adamant: because it is so much easier to alter plans 
Moon Adamant: well
Moon Adamant: hmmmm
Sudane Erato: i see
Moon Adamant: when i did teh CN plan
Moon Adamant: i actually made a trick on it 
Moon Adamant: CN theme can be expanded to up 4 sims 
Sudane Erato: hmmm
Moon Adamant: since teh inner city sits on teh corner
Dnate Mars: nice!
Moon Adamant: i made that justly so because i don't know if tehre is that kind of plan
Moon Adamant: so i plan for not knowing the plan, lol
Dnate Mars: Here is what I am thinking
Sudane Erato: hehe
Dnate Mars: This is our first expantion
Dnate Mars: and we want to go with a different theme, we still wanted them connected, do we always want it this way?
Sudane Erato: hmmm
Dnate Mars: in the future, could it be so that more then 1 sim makes up a city?
Moon Adamant: well, that is easier to plan
Moon Adamant: you see hmmm
8
Moon Adamant: say that when you expand to sim 3
Moon Adamant: that one actually has a water front
Dnate Mars: as we grow, we may want to have voids between "themes" or cities
Sudane Erato: or... even complete gaps
Moon Adamant: a completely unrelated sim (say it's galactic capital) can tehn be set there as an island
Moon Adamant: yes, exactly
Sudane Erato: yes
Dnate Mars: but we may want roads to connect cities too
Moon Adamant: this problem only happens now because stadt shape suggests it is part of a territory
Sudane Erato: then we'd need those void sims
Sudane Erato: yes
Moon Adamant: imagine that i glue
Moon Adamant: another CN sim to teh west of the fist
Moon Adamant: i can make teh river bend
Dnate Mars: voids will also help us the the level, you can go from anything to anything in a sim
Moon Adamant: and make a full water front
Sudane Erato: that would be *so* nice
Sudane Erato: at "0" sea level
Moon Adamant: lol let me see
Moon Adamant: *makes accounts
Dnate Mars: something else to think of, do we want to keep the water height at 20 m?
Moon Adamant: you'd have to go down from 80 to 20
Dnate Mars: I think connecting sims have to have the same water height
Moon Adamant: 60 meters in 256... well, a bit more
Sudane Erato: well, the water height here is irrelevant
Sudane Erato: but... and this point I keep trying to make
Dnate Mars: well, it all really depends on long term plans
Sudane Erato: the water nieght for "no sim" is 0
Dnate Mars: we can have a "cliff" at the edge of CN until we get big enough for the voids
Sudane Erato: so water in a sim... meeting water in a "no sim"
Moon Adamant: 23%... it is possible
Sudane Erato: sure
Moon Adamant: ah, i see your point sudane
Dnate Mars: then we could make the terrain a gentle slope when we can place a void between
Moon Adamant: that transition must be made smoothly from Nstadt
Sudane Erato: Dnate, that would be best
Sudane Erato: but... can we afford it?
Moon Adamant: it takes at least two more sims as you see
Sudane Erato: i don't think so
Moon Adamant: though
Moon Adamant: the other day i was thinking
Sudane Erato: well... with void sime in between
Dnate Mars: no, but that is why we start with a "cliff" at the edge of CN
Moon Adamant: didn't you suggest a waterfall between teh sim, Sudane?
Sudane Erato: yes
Dnate Mars: gives us much more room and a better plan
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Sudane Erato: well... not really
Sudane Erato: I suggested there would be a "water cliff" 
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: ok
Moon Adamant: because of teh sea level?
Sudane Erato: yes!!
Sudane Erato: I have observed it here in the chasm
Sudane Erato: its easier to see if we look at Cosy
Sudane Erato: where I can also change the water level
Dnate Mars: we can always make the edge land city prim lots then we can do what we need to with the edge, if we want to place a sim between we can
Sudane Erato: I feel it spoils the "infinite sea" look
Sudane Erato: yes..
Moon Adamant: Dnate, let me go back on that
9
Moon Adamant: i know what you mean Sudane
Moon Adamant: i didn't undstand it then...
Moon Adamant: i thought you were taliking about a topographical separator between teh two sims
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Moon Adamant: which made me think that a forest could do teh same thing... and we could plateau it
Moon Adamant: (though i'd like to pass a section to make sure)
Moon Adamant: but
Sudane Erato: well... the sim terrain boundary is different
Moon Adamant: and to link it to what Dnate said
Sudane Erato: yes
Moon Adamant: the CN plan is full of tricks, lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: so that the guidelines fitted in
Moon Adamant: namely
Moon Adamant: the prim pools are not tree plots, all nice along a slope like in stadt
Moon Adamant: they are the walls, teh roads, teh river
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Sudane Erato: yes
Dnate Mars: ah! good point!
Moon Adamant: everywhere you can suck prims off, there is a primpool lol
Sudane Erato: yes
Moon Adamant: this has to be so because
Moon Adamant: we only have 10% of public land
Sudane Erato: hehe... because CN is so ambitiious! 
Moon Adamant: exactly, lol
Moon Adamant: and we do have a lot of thinsg to take up those 10%
Sudane Erato: oh yes!
Moon Adamant: so much we even said that some things are not public and are private
Sudane Erato: yes
Moon Adamant: stuff like the temples and termae
Dnate Mars: like?
Dnate Mars: ah
Moon Adamant: temples are TINY and attached to commercial plots
Moon Adamant: so you'll have a continuity in the inside space
Sudane Erato: yes
Moon Adamant: ok
Moon Adamant: so what is your feel?
Moon Adamant: about this continuity thing?
Sudane Erato: well... my true feeling is that I'd like to have a void sim in between
Moon Adamant: mind you, we did a lot of work already today
Sudane Erato: and have a great roadway spiralling down to connect them
Moon Adamant: hmmm
Moon Adamant: ok, i see your idea
Moon Adamant: it is feasible, completely feasible
Sudane Erato: that would be the best
Sudane Erato: sure!
Sudane Erato: just expensive
Moon Adamant: but how would teh void sim be payed?
Sudane Erato: you have to buy 4
Sudane Erato: so...
Sudane Erato: its just like a single normal sim
Moon Adamant: mind you, we could make it a sort of 'pass' thingy and have a bit of a village in it
Sudane Erato: only a bit...
Moon Adamant: i assume it is land
Sudane Erato: can really sell any of it
Sudane Erato: yes... it is terraformable
Sudane Erato: just like regular
Moon Adamant: is it protected land? linden land?
Sudane Erato: no
Sudane Erato: its regular land..
Moon Adamant: ok
Sudane Erato: run on machines with very strict resource limites
Dnate Mars: but 1/4 prim and very easy to lag
Moon Adamant: was puzzled for one minute
Sudane Erato: yes
Moon Adamant: ah
Sudane Erato: exactly
Moon Adamant: how much does it cost, btw?
Sudane Erato: the same.... 4 sims
Dnate Mars: basicly you share one server with 4 plots of land
Sudane Erato: for the cost of one reulart sim
Moon Adamant: ok ok got it now
10
Sudane Erato: regular
Moon Adamant is a slow thinker
Sudane Erato: its such a nice idea
Sudane Erato: but
Sudane Erato: LL has made the cost of access very high
Sudane Erato: for those who need only one or two
Moon Adamant: ok
Moon Adamant: well
Dnate Mars: the 195 a month is not really too bad
Dnate Mars: but the startup is
Sudane Erato: Anshe will probably buy many of them
Sudane Erato: no...
Moon Adamant: 4 of them would allow us to solve the nstadt probelm for once and for all
Sudane Erato: its the 195/month
Sudane Erato: yes... it would
Moon Adamant: though i do think that a way off shoudl be created in n'stadt to the east
Sudane Erato: we could borrow the startup
Sudane Erato: but the sim returns no income
Dnate Mars: if a sim is 95% sold, how much a month will we profit?
Sudane Erato: so, we have to support it from the regular sims
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Sudane Erato: right now...
Moon Adamant: hmmmm
Sudane Erato: Nstadt is very highly sold
Sudane Erato: we take in about US220-230/month
Sudane Erato: and pay out the 195
Moon Adamant: i have an idea
Sudane Erato: ok!
Moon Adamant: as you know Sudane, but Dnate possibly doesn't
Moon Adamant: our Esperanto frends
Moon Adamant: want to have microplots
Sudane Erato: yes
Dnate Mars: they do?
Dnate Mars: why?
Sudane Erato: well, most of them
Moon Adamant: so that they can be citizens, but they really can't/don't want to afford more
Moon Adamant: yes
Sudane Erato: yes
Dnate Mars: hey!!!!!
Moon Adamant: coudl tehy take land at these sims?
Dnate Mars: yes!
Sudane Erato: 
Moon Adamant: since tehy do need to hold land to become citizens
Sudane Erato: well.... they can't be built on
Dnate Mars: but then what city are they part of?
Sudane Erato: so...
Dnate Mars: not true... just very low prm builds
Sudane Erato: you can't charge someone very much
Moon Adamant: but their major goal is not to have a posh villa... but to work with city for stablishing projects
Sudane Erato: for something they can't build on 
Moon Adamant: no
Moon Adamant: but then how much would you charge for 16m2 in nstadt?
Moon Adamant: and it can help a bit
Sudane Erato: US$0.35/month
Moon Adamant: lol, that was fast 
Sudane Erato: 
Sudane Erato: cause its happening 
Dnate Mars: so we can charge .10USD per month for 16 in a viod
Sudane Erato: we could still charge the 36 cents
Sudane Erato: but
Moon Adamant: so 1USD would be 1600m2?
Dnate Mars: and at 40/month/sim.... we need to have 5 sold sims to get 4 voids....
Sudane Erato: where would that get us?
Dnate Mars: 1USD would be 160sqm
Moon Adamant: well, it would partially help
Moon Adamant: but i agree that accounts would have to be made
Moon Adamant: by people who can make them 
Sudane Erato: don't know the answer
Sudane Erato: maybe we can resell the sims we don't need
Sudane Erato: altho
Dnate Mars: voids also add to the value of the world we are creating, a place to just wander throught the forests
Sudane Erato: I don't think so
Moon Adamant: hmmm
Sudane Erato: Dnate, yes!
11
Dnate Mars: they have to be in groups of 4
Sudane Erato: I agree
Moon Adamant: we must investigate these matters then
Sudane Erato: yes, they do
Sudane Erato: but can you sell them off individually?
Moon Adamant: mind you, i know this an expensive solution
Sudane Erato: yes
Moon Adamant: btw
Dnate Mars: one person must "own" the 4
Moon Adamant: can you insert a void sim between two existing sims?
Sudane Erato: i see
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: we can arrange how we want
Dnate Mars: sure, move one sim over 1 spot, and place the viod in the middle
Sudane Erato: if there is not another located there on the map
Dnate Mars: right
Sudane Erato: or alternatively
Dnate Mars: we may need to think of moving out too
Sudane Erato: we could re-locate our entire empire 
Sudane Erato: yes
Moon Adamant: just wodndering... it doesn't really help us, becuase then you'd have a set sim at 150m that youd' have to lower down 70 m at least
Dnate Mars: it does if we use a temp cliff as the border
Sudane Erato: well, I'm sure we don't want to lower NStadt
Moon Adamant: no, that si out of the question
Moon Adamant: namely it wasn't built so that it coudl be lowered
Sudane Erato: right
Dnate Mars: no
Moon Adamant: you couldn't lower church or MoCAS now, say
Moon Adamant: so can we use a temp cliff as a border?
Dnate Mars: we could, then when we get viods, we place it between and remove the cliff
Moon Adamant: ais it viable? won't we risk being stuck with a cliff for a long long time?
Moon Adamant: anotehr question - would teh people living along the edge like to see NFS from below, lol?
Dnate Mars: I think it is a better plan then a height we don't like and forever a treeline
Sudane Erato: I think if the sims are adjoined
Moon Adamant: i mean, would those plots be saleable?
Sudane Erato: there will be terrain connecting
Sudane Erato: even if it is vertical walls
Dnate Mars: hmmm
Dnate Mars: yes
Moon Adamant: yes
Moon Adamant: that's why i thought a solution coudl be to assume there is an unlevelness
Dnate Mars: it is not the best, but untill we can have the void, I think that is what we should do
Moon Adamant: make 2 plateaus - stealing land from CN but making prim pools there - and fill with trees
Dnate Mars: it would only be 1024 of land lost
Moon Adamant: if 4 metres wide, yes
Dnate Mars: if 4m wide
Moon Adamant: am not sure if you wouldn, t need 2 strips of 4 meters
Moon Adamant: that is 2048
Moon Adamant: but lol
Moon Adamant: CN is calculated to teh very inch
Sudane Erato: hehe
Dnate Mars: but in the future it will be part of other plots
Moon Adamant: we'd need to have pemission to revise guidelines
Dnate Mars: we need to have the entire plan ready for the RA after the election, I think
Moon Adamant: and we'd need to solve the bridge link... though right now i am thinking hmmm
Moon Adamant: i have to think on this a bit more
Sudane Erato: right now... it might be better to have a separate sim
Sudane Erato: and join them later
Sudane Erato: with a void sim
Final
Moon Adamant: that is also an alternative
Moon Adamant: we can then study some mods to teh plan
Sudane Erato: yes
Dnate Mars: that might be better, if we can place it with one space for the void on the map, I don't see a problem
Sudane Erato: sure
Moon Adamant: ok
Sudane Erato: yes
Dnate Mars: and we have the room to do it
Moon Adamant: so hmmm
Moon Adamant: and since this meeting is getting very long indeed lol
Sudane Erato: yes... I have to go
(
Moon Adamant: and i have to get some dinner... past midnight lol
Dnate Mars: I think we need to think some and have another meeting
Sudane Erato: oooh 
Moon Adamant: yes, i think so
Sudane Erato: i just spot something on the map
Sudane Erato: we cannot space CN one space away
Moon Adamant: but we have now reduced our issues to less, for a start - and more concrete ones
Dnate Mars: yes we can
Moon Adamant: oh?
Sudane Erato: we'll have to move NStadt completely
Dnate Mars: we will be kiddycorner
Sudane Erato: CN would touch corners with Enchanted
Dnate Mars: that is allowed
Sudane Erato: and that 's not allowed, I thought
Moon Adamant: but
Dnate Mars: sides can't corners can
Moon Adamant: consider this
Moon Adamant: if
Moon Adamant: CN doesn't touch Nstadt
Moon Adamant: then it is not imp+erative that it sits to teh west
Sudane Erato: of course...
Dnate Mars: but it would be nice 
Moon Adamant: it can sit to the north say
Sudane Erato: but if we want to later add the void sim
Sudane Erato: then it is
Moon Adamant: and we would lik through the valley and through void sim
Dnate Mars: plus then people can kinda see what the "big picture" will be
Sudane Erato: hmmm
Moon Adamant: i think this needs some sort of sketch, lol
Moon Adamant: and i also think better with a pencil
Sudane Erato: to the north we have plenty of space
Sudane Erato: hehe... yes
Moon Adamant: yes
Dnate Mars: well, I gotta run, hope someone can give meeting minutes out 
Sudane Erato: I will... they're all in my email box 
Moon Adamant: we just need the void sim anyway to go down from this height we're standing anyway
Dnate Mars: yep
Moon Adamant: and kk Dnate 
Dnate Mars: we can plan the rest in a "long term" plan latter
Moon Adamant: thanks for showing up 
Moon Adamant: oh, i am going to think a bit anyway lol
The meeting closed at 16:27 Linden time.