In defense of process

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Beathan
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In defense of process

Post by Beathan »

I would like to take a moment to defend process. Substance is good. Substance is what a person gets done. However, process is also important. Process is how a person gets things done. For that matter, policy is good. Policy is why a person does the things he or she does. To do things right, we need all three -- what, how and why. If we don't have a what -- we are lost. If we don't have a how -- we are crippled. If we don't have a why -- we will do the wrong things.

For the last two terms, we have not been short on what or why -- but we have been at a total loss as to how. The result was crippling chaos and infighting. I proposed my process reforms for the purpose of escaping from this crippling chaos -- and I think the results (while it is too early to make absolute pronouncements) are showing that my way out of the mess was the right way out.

Beathan

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Salzie Sachertorte
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Re: In defense of process

Post by Salzie Sachertorte »

The problem is - it is your way. Did anyone else (e.g., not on the RA) have a say?

Strategic planning, once again, is the key to consensus and moving forward as a community, not dragged forward by those who just happen to be in charge at the moment.

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Re: In defense of process

Post by Beathan »

Salzie --

The answer to that is, yes. I consulted with ten to fifteen of our most active and involved citizens and received their comments and recommendations. (Also, during this time, I IMed (or tried to IM) all of our citizens (based on the most recent "current citizen list") I could find and offered friendship and requested that they contact me with regard to any issue, including the process proposal, concerning how the RA could better serve them as citizens.) The result is reflected in the bill that went to the RA, which had my original proposals (as modified by comments I received in my consultations) as well as alternative proposals which I did not necessarily agree with. There is a reason why over a month passed from the time I floated my ideas and the time the RA voted on the proposals. I was consulting with citizens and modifying my proposal based on those comments.

Beathan

Let's keep things simple enough to be fair, substantive enough to be effective, and insightful enough to be good.
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Danton Sideways
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Re: In defense of process

Post by Danton Sideways »

Beathan -

If you are so concerned about process, you should put pressure on your ally ThePrincess, to try to stop the trolling and griefing that she carries out. I assure you that her hostile behaviour towards Pat, myself and certain other members of CDS is *very bad process*.

In fact, your introduction of more elaborate rules of order (which Jamie is implementing so well) was only necessary because of the permanent conflicts produced by such griefing behaviour. And as the principal ally of ThePrincess, you share a large part of the responsibility for that bad process we have been suffering. If you fail to intervene more energetically to stop this from happening, it may be necessary to conclude that you are one of the griefers yourself.

- Danton

Beathan
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Re: In defense of process

Post by Beathan »

Danton --

Please see my post in response to your post:

http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1757

That said, it is certainly not true that process reforms "were only necessary" because of the behavior of ThePrincess. I think that the reforms were equally necessary to curtail the partisan manner in which Pat ran the RA -- which took the unprecedented step of stripping the RA as a whole of the ability to control the ordering of votes and otherwise modify its own agenda. That said, I think that the free-form meetings are susceptible to disruption by snarky comment -- and my rules proposals were meant to address and have addressed that as well. Additionally, our meetings were getting longer and longer and accomplishing less and less. My rules were meant to address, and have addressed, the efficiency problem of the meetings as well.

In other words, more formal rules and processes were overdue -- and were needed (soon if not now) even if we disregard the personalities of the members of the RA.

The fact is that we are a community. As in all real communities, some of us don't get along with others of us. This results in disagreements that often result in real conflict. The solution is not to, as you suggest, break off into gangs and beat down the weaker side (who is probably no more at fault than the other side -- it takes two to tango). Rather, the solution is to create an environment that disarms conflict. The best way to create this environment is to implement rules that both enable discussion and an airing of disagreement while circumscribing actions to proper bounds of decency. This is what I am trying to do (I think to some success). Your solution, which is nothing more than a stepping up of our internecine conflicts to true internecine warfare, seems fundamentally misguided to me.

Beathan

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Danton Sideways
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Re: In defense of process

Post by Danton Sideways »

Beathan -

The solution I proposed in my comment above was the following: "you should put pressure on your ally ThePrincess, to try to stop the trolling and griefing that she carries out."

You reply that my suggested solution constitutes a "stepping up of our internecine conflicts to true internecine warfare."

I ask for better control and moderation of disruptive behaviour, and you reply that this implies an escalation of internecine conflicts. There is surely a logical fallacy in that.

- Danton

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