Extraord. Board meeting - 4th Sim - 10Apr2008 - transcript

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Moon Adamant
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Extraord. Board meeting - 4th Sim - 10Apr2008 - transcript

Post by Moon Adamant »

[13:29] You: i propose that first of all
[13:29] You: we analyse teh white paper
[13:29] You: that apparently *is* the formal specs
[13:30] You: let me look for it, just a sec
[13:30] Brian Livingston: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1703
[13:31] You: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... &sk=t&sd=a
[13:31] You: lol, thanks Brian
[13:31] Feminist Expedition: hello pip :)
[13:31] You: hi Pip
[13:32] You: from my understanding
[13:32] Pip Torok: hi xcuse me whil things rezz
[13:32] You: this document as a whole wasn't voted by the RA
[13:32] You: but is the sum of previous votes in the matter
[13:33] You: i accepted the document
[13:33] You: on two provisions
[13:33] You: 1. that the Guild couldhave considerable latitude in teh interpretation of said document
[13:34] You: 2. that the Guild could come back for clarification on specs
[13:34] You: any comments so far?
[13:34] Feminist Expedition: and they were ok with those?
[13:34] Symo Kurka: ok go on
[13:34] You: yes
[13:34] Feminist Expedition: good
[13:35] You: well,
[13:35] You: with a simple calculation
[13:35] You: the desired 50 plots fit
[13:35] You: if we consider an average of 768 m2
[13:36] You: this being 50 /50 - 512-1024 plots
[13:36] You: we reach 27.000 m2 free for public space
[13:37] You: or close to 40% of the sim area
[13:37] You: most of these
[13:37] You: will be taken by roads
[13:37] You: since we have to give access to ALL plots
[13:37] You: right?
[13:37] Symo Kurka: yes
[13:37] Pip Torok: yes
[13:38] You: but the RA also tells us that they desire gardens
[13:38] You: as public infrastructures
[13:38] You: and my idea so far
[13:38] Bjerkel Eerie: given that builders tend to crowd lots that doesnt leave much room for grass
[13:38] You: is that we use those gardens as belvederes
[13:39] You: opening the urban tissue
[13:39] You: and being half plaza-half garden
[13:39] Pip Torok: agree
[13:39] Bjerkel Eerie: belvedere??? not a term in my vocab
[13:39] You: what do you all think?
[13:39] You: hmmm, let me look for a picture
[13:39] Symo Kurka: well
[13:39] Symo Kurka: first
[13:40] Brian Livingston: So a number of plots open onto these plazas?
[13:40] Symo Kurka: AM public land + monastery
[13:40] Symo Kurka: makes 62% of sim land
[13:40] Symo Kurka: i think that one of the conditions could be
[13:41] Symo Kurka: that General Master Plan fixes "Maximum High density parameters"
[13:41] You: bjerkel:
[13:41] You: http://www2.vo.lu/homepages/phahn/photo ... /lb077.jpg
[13:41] You: this is a famous belvedere in lisbon
[13:41] Feminist Expedition: very nice
[13:42] You: yes symo
[13:42] You: but AM is a double prim sim, don't forget
[13:42] Symo Kurka: yes
[13:42] You: this means that though the private land is 38% of the total area
[13:42] You: it holds 76 % of the available prims
[13:43] Symo Kurka: yes ok
[13:43] You: but it's a good remark, because it is something that we must discuss here as well
[13:43] You: my opinion, after some calculations
[13:43] You: (brief)
[13:44] You: is that we can't have a double prim sim with 50 plots
[13:44] Symo Kurka: sure
[13:44] You: if we calculate an average 768m2/plot
[13:44] Symo Kurka: and we could also estimate .. sorry
[13:44] You: but perhaps we can have a 1.5 prim sim
[13:44] You: i dunno how will that sound in marketing lol
[13:44] Bjerkel Eerie: not unless we had a preponerance of 512's
[13:45] You: yes, of course
[13:45] You: the lower you bring the private area
[13:45] You: you can raise the multiplier
[13:45] Bjerkel Eerie: but people will be inclinded to pruchase multiple lots
[13:45] You: possible
[13:45] Symo Kurka: btw
[13:46] You: but that is for covenants
[13:46] Symo Kurka: i estimate more or less 8000 sqm for roads and gardens
[13:46] You: the limits on what area people can own
[13:46] You: let me see my own calculations
[13:47] You: ah, onme thing sorry
[13:47] You: dpon't forget also
[13:47] You: river
[13:47] You: we weill need quays, possibly
[13:47] You: we can choose to let each plot have a quay
[13:47] You: or create a continuous quay, which can be used for events etc
[13:47] You: but in any case
[13:48] You: masterplanwg MUST draw the river first
[13:48] Bjerkel Eerie: Maybe it makes sense to think of paths instead of roads, and sell the quays for barges and boat houses
[13:48] You: bjerkel
[13:48] You: we always need that a road has at least 4 m wide
[13:49] You: because that's the minimal parcelling unit
[13:49] You: 8 meters would be preferrable
[13:49] You: so you don't 'funnel' avatars
[13:49] You: or you can have a 'road plot' that is 8 m wide
[13:49] Symo Kurka: hmm if u estimate 4 meers road it grows to 11000
[13:49] Brian Livingston: I would prefer we assume 8 meters unless it is some kind of alley
[13:50] You: but which has a path which is 4 m wide, and side trees
[13:50] Symo Kurka: oh
[13:50] Feminist Expedition: hello klause :)
[13:50] Bjerkel Eerie: what are the road widths iside the town wall?
[13:50] You: hello Klause
[13:50] Symo Kurka: no more public land...
[13:50] Klause Halberstadt: Hi
[13:50] You: this guild meeting is transcripted into our forums
[13:50] You: be welcome to have a seat and participate
[13:51] You: also there is another thing
[13:51] You: ther's the theatre hill
[13:51] Klause Halberstadt: I do not know enough to do you any good.:)
[13:51] You: which must continue into this sim
[13:51] You: and we should have a protection belt there
[13:52] You: don't you agree?
[13:52] You: but you are welcome to stay in any case :)
[13:52] Symo Kurka: you can leave justv the Cardo at 8 mtrs wide
[13:53] Klause Halberstadt: I am being over come with ADD. If you will excuse me :))
[13:53] Symo Kurka: not minor roads
[13:53] You: cardo is 12 m wide
[13:53] Symo Kurka: k
[13:53] Symo Kurka: it has to be continuous
[13:53] Brian Livingston: Makes sense. I would almsot say it wouldn't be aterrible thing to continue the northenrmost portion fo the si, north of the Cardo as green space, perhaps faltten it out i to a meadow or a formal garden
[13:53] You: and yes, my idea is that we differentiate between cardo and minor roads
[13:53] Bjerkel Eerie: I am not even certain where this sim sits in realationship to the existing sims
[13:53] Brian Livingston: of the sim* n
[13:54] You: ah, that is another thing!
[13:54] You: i don't know why
[13:54] You: but the RA has decided that we should develop the sim EAST to CN
[13:54] You: when at these densities
[13:55] Symo Kurka: again
[13:55] You: i would suggest personally that we'd either develop, WEST or NORTH
[13:55] Pip Torok: agree
[13:55] Feminist Expedition: why do you prefer west or north?
[13:55] Symo Kurka: i would accept the CN2 stuff at the condition that it's an exception
[13:55] Pip Torok: because of the citywall
[13:55] You: because when i drew CN
[13:56] Symo Kurka: to the principle that we should first have an updated GMP
[13:56] You: i planned it to be expandable in 4 sims
[13:56] You: but to the W, NW, and N sides
[13:56] You: if you watch the map
[13:56] You: you will see that teh forum is is not centered with the sim
[13:56] You: and that the eastern half of the city
[13:56] You: is actually meant to be a slope with villas and gardens
[13:57] You: so what will happen is
[13:57] Feminist Expedition: so, do we ask the ra their thinking on going east?
[13:57] You: that you'll have a city center now
[13:58] Feminist Expedition: or give them a proposal for guild's preferred direction?
[13:58] You: then a somewhat lower density
[13:58] You: then a thicker density again
[13:58] Bjerkel Eerie: well didnt the barbarians and maygars come out of the east
[13:58] Feminist Expedition: suburbs :)
[13:58] You: well, your comments about that please
[13:58] Pip Torok: lol
[13:59] Pip Torok: i think nsew don have historic implications in sl
[14:00] You: let's discuss it for 10 minutes
[14:00] You: Symo, what do you think?
[14:01] Feminist Expedition: no opinion here....
[14:02] Pip Torok: nor from me either
[14:02] Symo Kurka: now
[14:02] Symo Kurka: here you see how it works now
[14:02] You: Brian? Bjerkel? Pip?
[14:02] Symo Kurka: a low density residential in the middle
[14:02] Bjerkel Eerie: I for one just am not enthused about being a part of building a suburb that sounds very american in structure
[14:02] You: ok, listening
[14:02] Symo Kurka: AM
[14:03] Symo Kurka: and two yelloow HD mixed functions
[14:03] Symo Kurka: CN and NFS
[14:03] Symo Kurka: clear?
[14:03] You: ok
[14:03] Brian Livingston: Hmm, I hadn/;t considered the density relitive to the other sims in terms of positioning. West would make a whole lote mroe sense for this sim
[14:03] Pip Torok: yes
[14:03] Pip Torok: agree with BL
[14:03] Feminist Expedition: anyone know why ra suggested east?
[14:03] Symo Kurka: and this is an example just an example
[14:04] You: you do understand though that AM topo implies a low density, of course
[14:04] Pip Torok: yes
[14:04] Symo Kurka: of how expansions could be regulated
[14:04] Feminist Expedition nods
[14:04] You: ok, waiting for it to rez
[14:04] Bjerkel Eerie: but it should be high density to capture the walkability of the adjaect sim
[14:05] You: Symo, the more complex drawing
[14:05] Symo Kurka: yes?
[14:05] You: yellow sims are CN and NFS?
[14:05] Symo Kurka: yes
[14:05] You: ok
[14:05] You: and white in middle AM
[14:05] Symo Kurka: yes
[14:05] Symo Kurka: and LD means low density+
[14:05] You: is this a proposal for densities?
[14:05] Symo Kurka: yes just a draft
[14:06] Symo Kurka: BUT
[14:06] Symo Kurka: i had in mind a lower density rate
[14:06] You: so, in your opinion, CN-East can be high res?
[14:06] You: ok
[14:06] You: i am listening
[14:06] Symo Kurka: abstractly yes but as you said
[14:06] Symo Kurka: the center of CN is shifted on the opposite way
[14:07] You: yup, on purpose
[14:07] You: btw everyone
[14:07] Symo Kurka: this is just to give a rough idea of how general master plan could regulate denisties
[14:07] Brian Livingston: Hey guys, I need to run. Hmm. I will keep tabs on this discussion and post soem comments lwithin the next few days.
[14:07] You: roman cities were planned like this: you had two roads - cardo and decumanum - that met at the forum
[14:07] Brian Livingston: I have some thoguhts regarding workgroups and so on but weill post those later as well
[14:07] Symo Kurka: kk Brian
[14:08] You: ok, Briian, thanks
[14:08] You: this will be posted as usual
[14:08] You: ok, we lost quorum for vote
[14:08] You: so we will just discuss
[14:08] You: i agree with your thinking Symo
[14:09] You: not sure if NFS-South should be hi-dense
[14:09] You: but i agree with it in general principles
[14:09] Symo Kurka: it depends on how much dense
[14:09] Bjerkel Eerie: we are struggling so hard in America to introduce high density into planning, our love of low density in our cities is killing us
[14:09] You: i see it as a continuation of valley
[14:09] Symo Kurka: i'm afraid 50 plots is unbearable
[14:10] You: well
[14:10] You: as to that, i pretend to use 0Guild's latitude' :)
[14:10] You: and go down hmmm say 10%
[14:10] You: 45 plots
[14:11] Symo Kurka: i absolutely agree but even i think we should estimate precisely what could be left
[14:11] Bjerkel Eerie: so say 40 and compromise at 45
[14:11] You: my mian issue is
[14:11] You: primmage
[14:11] You: by my reckonings
[14:11] You: if we go down to 45 plots
[14:11] You: and keep private land at 50% of sim
[14:12] You: we can offer 1.5 multiplier
[14:12] You: this means that a 512 m2 house
[14:12] You: suddenly has 175 prims
[14:12] You: now, i KNOW from experience
[14:12] You: that these roman insulae, etc
[14:13] You: they take prims to build
[14:13] You: you have columns, you hav frieses, etc
[14:13] You: specially in the Cecil B. de Mille variants :P
[14:13] You: so...
[14:13] You: 117 prims
[14:13] You: for a NORMAL 512
[14:14] You: may mean that the owner may spend just half of it ON the house
[14:14] Naftali Torok: hiall
[14:14] Naftali Torok: waves
[14:14] You: hey naftali .)
[14:14] Symo Kurka: ciao
[14:15] You: pip, can you brief Naftali in IM on what we have discussed so far please?
[14:15] Pip Torok: yes
[14:15] You: so you see what i am trying to reach here?
[14:15] You: a compromise
[14:15] You: less plots
[14:15] You: moreprims for each plot
[14:16] Symo Kurka: yes i understand
[14:16] Symo Kurka: i still think you should estimate precisely roads and gardens' surface
[14:16] You: prims are h,,, quality of life too
[14:17] You: ehehe but for that
[14:17] You: i need to make MY plan
[14:17] You: so that's what you are suggesting?
[14:17] You: that i publish this grid (it helps)
[14:18] You: and everyone of us starts trying make a plan?
[14:18] Symo Kurka: i just suggest that b4 starting to draw we need a bit more of calculations
[14:18] Bjerkel Eerie: you think things need a meticulous approach symo?
[14:18] You: but it's difficult for me
[14:18] Symo Kurka: no Bjer
[14:18] You: to estimate what is the area needed for passageway
[14:18] You: 20%
[14:18] You: ?
[14:19] You: what do you suggest?
[14:19] Symo Kurka: i just want to estimate if there's any public land left
[14:19] Symo Kurka: after roads and gardens
[14:19] You: there will be
[14:19] You: in the river
[14:19] You: and in the belt that protects the theatre at the NW corner
[14:20] Symo Kurka: yes just "no build areas"
[14:20] Symo Kurka: anyway
[14:20] Symo Kurka: personally
[14:20] Moon Adamant listens
[14:20] Symo Kurka: i leave all that to you and go on with General MP
[14:21] You: ahahah
[14:21] Symo Kurka: but ofcourse we need to cohordinate
[14:21] You: and how do you know i'll do a good work? ;)
[14:21] Symo Kurka: the problem is not this one
[14:21] Symo Kurka: the problem is fixing for the furture
[14:21] Symo Kurka: maximum high density rates
[14:21] You: i totally concur
[14:22] Symo Kurka: AND
[14:22] Symo Kurka: as i said in a forum
[14:22] Symo Kurka: IF
[14:22] Symo Kurka: private development goes on
[14:22] Symo Kurka: whue have to fix in GMP WHERE this is allowed
[14:23] You: i agree
[14:23] You: certaim sims
[14:23] Symo Kurka: (i mean NOT anywhere)
[14:23] You: like NFS-East
[14:23] You: are too important to be left to private development
[14:23] You: in my opinion
[14:23] You: as they have to comply, make a sema, with an existing urban tissue
[14:23] You: seam*
[14:23] Symo Kurka: sure
[14:24] Symo Kurka: and i would also suggest -forgive me Moon -
[14:24] You: but well
[14:24] You: yes?
[14:24] Symo Kurka: some "lifting" for old CN
[14:24] You: lifting?
[14:24] Symo Kurka: lol
[14:24] You: in what sense?
[14:24] You: face lift? :)
[14:24] Symo Kurka: hmm
[14:24] Symo Kurka: yes lol
[14:25] You: ah sighs
[14:25] Symo Kurka: i think it lacks a bit of magic
[14:25] You: i am afraid that is out of teh Guild's control
[14:25] Symo Kurka: pity
[14:25] You: at least, untill we have a BAC
[14:25] You: and new residents build with BAC supervision
[14:26] Feminist Expedition: could make a proposal for the facelift...if anyone has time to follow-thru....
[14:26] You: Fem, our problem now
[14:26] You: is that we have a lot of stuff running already
[14:26] You: and too few hands
[14:26] Feminist Expedition: ah, understand...
[14:26] Feminist Expedition: :)
[14:26] Symo Kurka: yes lol tons of volunteers
[14:26] You: i will gladly welcome your proposal for the face lift
[14:27] You: but give us a month or two first, please :)
[14:27] Feminist Expedition: not me... sorry....
[14:27] Feminist Expedition: just like the idea of keeping the magic :)
[14:27] Feminist Expedition: perhaps another time there will be more hands free
[14:27] Symo Kurka: yes i just meant "start talkin about it"
[14:27] Feminist Expedition: k
[14:27] You: well CN is very different atm from when it was built
[14:28] Naftali Torok: yes i also saw that happening
[14:28] Naftali Torok: and realize we are part of that proccess
[14:28] You: yes
[14:28] You: but mind you
[14:28] You: it's a good thing that sims CHNAGE
[14:28] You: CHANGE
[14:28] Naftali Torok: ys
[14:28] Naftali Torok: they must LIVE
[14:28] Feminist Expedition nods
[14:28] You: shows they're *alive*
[14:28] Naftali Torok: indeed
[14:29] You: not ghost twons
[14:29] You: and i must confess lol
[14:29] Naftali Torok: ppl worked hard last months
[14:29] You: i look at some of my own builds in CN and today... i would do them in another way .)
[14:29] You: but i guess that's normal :)
[14:29] Naftali Torok: thats also part of our process in sl, we are all frowing
[14:29] Naftali Torok: growning
[14:29] Symo Kurka: i ask you all builders to have in mind a concept
[14:29] You: ok guys
[14:30] You: ok, Symo, listen
[14:30] You: listening*
[14:30] You: carry on
[14:30] Symo Kurka: EMOTIONAL IMPACT
[14:30] Naftali Torok: lol
[14:30] Bjerkel Eerie: how do you spell that?
[14:30] Symo Kurka: of what you are building is important as much as textures
[14:30] Naftali Torok: tru
[14:30] Symo Kurka: and prims
[14:31] You: yes
[14:31] Symo Kurka: this is the concept for which Lindens spent so much time developing the new viewer
[14:31] You: which is working terribly for me atm :(
[14:32] Symo Kurka: and we should have it in mind for small buildings too
[14:32] Bjerkel Eerie: I was reduced to tears of frustration by the new vewer yesteday
[14:32] Naftali Torok: mmm
[14:32] Symo Kurka: i'm sorry for you Moon , it's workin pretty well for me
[14:32] You: i agree with you Symo
[14:32] You: a small house
[14:33] You: can be as effective as a 'tone' in an environment as the large build nest to it
[14:33] Symo Kurka: k that's all atm for me
[14:33] You: ok
[14:33] You: guys
[14:33] You: i don't like to have brainstorimng meetings for long
[14:33] Naftali Torok: i have to say its so mucg more pleasure to see really nice textures and stuff
[14:34] You: because people need to listend, absorb new concepts, etc
[14:34] You: so i would adjourn
[14:34] You: but first
[14:34] You: i would like to ask you
[14:34] You: what must be our modus operandi next
[14:35] Symo Kurka: first
[14:35] You: and what, if any, tasks should be set till sunday
[14:35] Feminist Expedition: i think it's important,
[14:35] Feminist Expedition: to go to the RA and get the direction clarified....
[14:35] Symo Kurka: try to get a result from RA (conditions, General MPO etc)
[14:36] Bjerkel Eerie: tell them there plan is find and it will be improved by making more prims avail bu cutting out 5 lots and siting it on the other sice of CN for better denisty consideratons
[14:36] You: ok
[14:36] You: so let's clarify
[14:36] You: you want me to go to the RA~
[14:36] Feminist Expedition: action plan...
[14:36] You: ask them if they really meant East and not West
[14:36] You: and if we can cut down in the number of plots?
[14:36] Naftali Torok: yes
[14:36] You: correct?
[14:36] Pip Torok: yes
[14:36] Symo Kurka: yep
[14:37] You: we can vote this
[14:37] Bjerkel Eerie: yes
[14:37] You: all agreeing, say aye
[14:37] Feminist Expedition: correct, give them the rationale for east...
[14:37] Pip Torok: Aye
[14:37] Bjerkel Eerie: aye
[14:37] Feminist Expedition: aye
[14:37] Symo Kurka: aye
[14:37] You: and aye as well
[14:37] Naftali Torok: aye
[14:37] You: no need of an assistant lol
[14:37] You: i can resume :)
[14:37] You: ok,
[14:38] You: so, can we adjourn?
[14:38] Symo Kurka: wait pls
[14:38] Feminist Expedition: move to adjourn :)
[14:38] You: ok, Symo?
[14:38] Symo Kurka: i want to know if there's any commitment from RA about the General Master Plan
[14:38] Pip Torok: yes
[14:38] You: hmmm
[14:38] You: i think we present it, they approve it
[14:38] Symo Kurka: i mean i do not want to waste my time
[14:39] Bjerkel Eerie: a movement to adjuourn is always n order, you cannot consider anythng till it is dealt with
[14:39] You: but let's do this
[14:39] You: we will adjourn 4th sim now
[14:39] You: and will discuss informally masterplan for 20 minutes
[14:39] You: all agree?
[14:39] Feminist Expedition: aye
[14:39] Bjerkel Eerie: yay~!
[14:40] Symo Kurka: aye
[14:40] Pip Torok: Aye
[14:40] Feminist Expedition: must go, thanks all :)
[14:40] Naftali Torok: bye fem
[14:40] You: thanks Feminist, have fun! :9
[14:40] Pip Torok: bye FE
[14:40] Feminist Expedition: bye all, good work :)
[14:40] Symo Kurka: ciao Fem
[14:40] Bjerkel Eerie: see yah!
[14:40] You: and i vote aye as well

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Edit: title of post to include "4th sim2 for easier identification.

Edit: i had typed "7" instead of "/" in "50/50" - and firefox was showing it as a phone number... hope it's solved :P

Eudaimonia now!
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