Board Meeting Transcript - 13th April 2008 -Part I

[Moon Adamant]

[9:25] You: shall we start?
[9:25] Symo Kurka: k
[9:25] Sudane Erato: sure
[9:25] MT Lundquist nods
[9:25] You: please touch the cube for agenda
[9:25] Sonja Strom: Hi ThePrincess ~
[9:25] You: i will warn everyone as ususal that this meeting will be transcripted into our forums
[9:26] You: and i will request an assistant
[9:26] You: because i keep crashing
[9:26] You: and so will need a volunteer to transcriipt a backup
[9:26] ThePrincess Parisi: MT will
[9:26] Brian Livingston: I have a notetaker if needd
[9:26] You: lol, volunteering others?
[9:27] You: i don't like notetakers
[9:27] MT Lundquist: notetaker sounds good brian
[9:27] You: they spam my mail dreadfully
[9:27] MT Lundquist: i just noticed i volunteered somehow lol
[9:27] You: and they unfocus me
[9:27] Brian Livingston: Aah
[9:27] Jon Seattle: perhaps it could spam Brian's mail?
[9:27] Sudane Erato: yes
[9:27] notetaker 2.0.1 [script:notetaker 2.0.1]: Script run-time error
[9:27] notetaker 2.0.1 [script:notetaker 2.0.1]: Stack-Heap Collision
[9:27] You: ok MT, i will thank you for the backup
[9:27] You: errr
[9:27] You: it won't work
[9:28] You: stack -heap collision is BAD
[9:28] Brian Livingston: Hmm, it's still on for some reason as well. Odd
[9:28] Sudane Erato: just turn on "Log Chat" in preferences
[9:29] You: oh, i like to copy paste lol
[9:29] You: anyway
[9:29] You: this will be a backup
[9:29] You: let's hope i don't crash
[9:29] You: agenda
[9:29] You: 1. General regulations draft for new sim buildings - report by Symo and Moon
[9:30] You: i am afriad that we have nothing to present yet
[9:30] Symo Kurka: I confirm, its' across GMP and local planning
[9:31] You: yes, we are working on it.... but not in presentable form
[9:31] You: ok
[9:31] You: 2. CDS Information centre - specs to be provided by Arria or Alex
[9:31] You: is Arria or Alex around?
[9:32] Symo Kurka: m afraid not
[9:32] You: ok
[9:32] You: then with your approval
[9:32] You: we will delay this point in case they arrive later
[9:32] You: all agree?
[9:32] Sudane Erato: kk
[9:32] Symo Kurka: kk
[9:32] Sudane Erato: yes
[9:32] Brian Livingston: sure
[9:33] You: and agree as well
[9:33] You: 3. Textures and texture content theft (submitted by Rose - to be tabled for one more week)
[9:33] You: this point will be table till next week, as announced
[9:33] Symo Kurka: yes
[9:33] You: 4. Altenstadt redeployment - analysis of NFS covenants (Sonja)
[9:34] You: Sonja, please, would you care to introduce the topic?
[9:34] Sonja Strom: Sure.
[9:34] Sonja Strom: That area is in development, and I and others would like for it to be a nice place in the community.
[9:35] Sonja Strom: There is a thread about it in the Forum.
[9:35] You: ok
[9:35] You: i have given you the links for the NFS covenants
[9:35] You: concerning the inner city
[9:35] Sonja Strom: Yesterday in the RA we talked briefly about allowing trades for parcels there with other communities in SL to have there consulates there.
[9:35] Sonja Strom: A kind of "Embassy Row."
[9:36] Sonja Strom: But that is only one concept.
[9:36] You: ok
[9:36] You: does that involve change in the covenants?
[9:36] Sonja Strom: At the last Guild meeting we talked about that there are covenants in Neufreistadt that probably would govern the building in this area.
[9:36] Sonja Strom: So we agreed to look into what they were.
[9:36] You: exactly
[9:37] Sonja Strom: Moon was kind enough to find the ones that would be pertinant.
[9:37] Sudane Erato: i don't recall anything that would exclude embassies
[9:37] You: ehehe, np at all - problem is that we found TWO versions!
[9:37] Sudane Erato:
[9:37] Sonja Strom: She let me know that she found two different sets of covenants, and that they disagreed.
[9:37] Sonja Strom: So she asked if I would look through and compare them.
[9:37] You: apparently
[9:37] You: there was a revision of the NFS covenant
[9:37] Sonja Strom: I said I would, but have not yet completed that.
[9:38] You: atsome time
[9:38] Sonja Strom: It is one of the next things on my own agenda to do.
[9:38] You: one of teh versions is the revised one
[9:38] Sonja Strom: done, thanks.
[9:38] You: and teh other is the unrevised, we suspect
[9:38] You: ok, thanks
[9:38] You: comments?
[9:38] Symo Kurka: Nope
[9:38] Sudane Erato: how would these covenants proibit that kind of use?
[9:39] You: well hmmm
[9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: we have an embassy in cn already
[9:39] Sudane Erato: all within the walls is allowed shops or residencies
[9:39] Sonja Strom: We can all talk about that, and I haven't read them yet.
[9:39] You: imagine that we have an embassy of the chinese republic lol
[9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: torins
[9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: we have one that is for roma
[9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: and none of ours there
[9:39] You: do our covenants allow a chinese roof, say?
[9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: lol...moon
[9:39] Sudane Erato: oh... you refer to architectural style!
[9:39] Sonja Strom: It doesn't seem to me that they would prohibit this use, but it could define the kind of building that would be done there, just as Moon pointed out.
[9:39] You: embassies my want to have buildings reseembling their communities' themes
[9:40] Sudane Erato: which is not the same as use
[9:40] You: oh yes
[9:40] You: i am not concerned with use
[9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: true, i see
[9:40] You: i am only concerned with the aesthetical stuff
[9:40] You: because i am sure that Roma embassy
[9:40] You: would prefer to have a classical building
[9:41] Sudane Erato: it seems to me that an emassy here would be expected to conform to our architectural style
[9:41] You: than a fachwerk
[9:41] You: ah
[9:41] You: that's for discussion lol
[9:41] Sudane Erato: just as we would elsewhere conform to their style
[9:41] Symo Kurka: Well each sim should preserve its style
[9:41] You: i think that is one thing out of the scope of teh Guild
[9:42] You: since it envolves negotiatioons between teh CDS and the other entities
[9:42] Sonja Strom: In general I agree with you Sudane, but I also think it would be good for us to take each embassy/consulate on a case-by-case basis, working together with the other community.
[9:42] You: don't you agree?
[9:42] Sonja Strom: Probably we would like for them to do the same for us...
[9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: all the ones so far wereoffering us was rented vendor space
[9:42] Sudane Erato: well... embassies have such an amiguous purpose....
[9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: now we are building them a building?
[9:42] Sudane Erato: that we shouldn't worry much about them, IMO
[9:42] Sonja Strom: TP, that is a good question...
[9:43] You: may i make a comment?
[9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: so far alexicon only mentioned renting space in roma.. which will not happen, and in caledon.. which i have no idea
[9:43] Sonja Strom: Anyway, it was only an idea that come up in the RA yesterday, and I thought I would share it with you.
[9:43] Sonja Strom: Of course Moon
[9:43] You: if you do intend to make an embassy row, which i find a good idea
[9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: nods
[9:44] You: i think the rA must discuss which are the terms of negotiation first
[9:44] You: with the other entities
[9:44] You: and then
[9:44] You: we will see if covenants need change
[9:44] Sudane Erato: i agree
[9:44] Sonja Strom: That makes sense, sure.
[9:45] Sonja Strom: The Chancellor could maybe help out there too.
[9:45] You: possibly
[9:45] You: atm, i do not quite recall to whom the hmmm Foreign Affairs fall to lol
[9:46] You: but i know we dicussed it
[9:46] Sudane Erato: not us
[9:46] You: some RAs ago
[9:46] Sonja Strom: I'm pretty sure that is an Executive function.
[9:46] You: so Sonja
[9:46] You: may i trouble you to get in contact with Alex
[9:46] Sonja Strom: Sure.
[9:46] You: and discuss this with him? and also bring the subject before RA if needed?
[9:47] Sonja Strom: I'd be happy to.
[9:47] You: great, thanks!
[9:47] You: we will table this then
[9:47] You: untill we have some fresher input
[9:47] You: if you all agree
[9:47] Moon Adamant hugs Jon
[9:48] You: can someone please update Jon in IM about the issues discussed so far, please?
[9:48] Jon Seattle hugs Moon
[9:48] You: point 6
[9:48] You: 5. Office for the chancellor - submitted by Sonja (with possible discussion of offices for the SC and RA)
[9:49] You: Sonja, again,can you introduce the point?
[9:49] Sonja Strom: Sure.
[9:49] Sonja Strom: There was some conversation in our government circles that it would be nice for there to be an office for the executives.
[9:49] Moon Adamant listens
[9:49] Sonja Strom: Meaning, the Chancellor, PIO, etc.
[9:50] Sonja Strom: So I started a thread about this concept in the Forum, simply to begin a conversation about it.
[9:50] Sonja Strom: There have been a couple of positive posts made.
[9:50] You: i must apologize, haven't read it yet
[9:50] You: can you pass teh link?
[9:51] Sudane Erato: i liked the idea of the info center on the Platz
[9:51] Symo Kurka: yes i'll give a small contribuion to the thread
[9:51] Sonja Strom: Once again, we could look at the former "Altenburg" area, or another possibility is the Schloss.
[9:51] Moon Adamant nods
[9:51] Symo Kurka: i've seen a wonderful Major's office in Assisi
[9:51] Sonja Strom: The Info Center on the Platz might be ok, but it is quite small...
[9:51] You: i would like to make a comment after you've finished, btw
[9:52] Sonja Strom: If there were desks and chairs in there, it would be less of an open feeling, I think.
[9:52] Sonja Strom: But it would depend on how it was designed, I guess.
[9:52] Brian Livingston: Now,what would the primary use of thsi space be?
[9:52] Sudane Erato: can we define the function of this office?
[9:52] Sonja Strom: My feeling about that place is it would be best for it to be a spot where complete outsiders can feel comfortable going in.
[9:53] Brian Livingston: Meetign area, display area for CDS info, other?
[9:53] Sonja Strom: Another thought was the Rathaus, maybe downstairs...
[9:53] You: my comment is about the rathhaus
[9:53] Sonja Strom: Again that seems a little bit small, but it would depend on how it was designed.
[9:53] Sonja Strom: Done, thanks, except for finding that thread.
[9:53] You: ok
[9:53] You: Sonja
[9:54] You: and all of you
[9:54] You: this is not teh first time that there has been discussion about the branches having 'offices' or 'meeting rooms'
[9:54] You: i quite agree with the concept
[9:54] You: my comment also relates to something
[9:54] You: atm
[9:55] You: the RA room in the Rathaus is starting to be too small
[9:55] You: specially as the RA will increase as we expand
[9:55] Symo Kurka: could'nt RA meet in the arena?
[9:55] You: while the Praetorium has room enough for a RA three time sthe size we have now
[9:56] You: the rathaus needs a bit of interior design
[9:56] You: oh, Symo
[9:56] You: i think it only needs a different disposition of chairs
[9:56] Sudane Erato: the arena would be very appropriate, as the RA is somewhat of a spectacle
[9:56] Brian Livingston: hehe
[9:56] You: think the Commons House at british parliament
[9:56] Jon Seattle:
[9:56] ThePrincess Parisi nudges sudane
[9:56] ThePrincess Parisi: blood and guts
[9:56] Sudane Erato:
[9:56] Sonja Strom: Sudane, I have no idea what you mean!
[9:56] Sonja Strom: haa
[9:57] You: so
[9:57] You: i think we need an integrated plan
[9:57] You: to get the SC an office
[9:57] You: or meeting room
[9:58] You: the chancellor an office
[9:58] You: an improved rathaus
[9:58] You: as sonja mentioned
[9:58] You: there is lots of unoccupied room at the schloss
[9:59] You: and also, at the praetorium
[9:59] You: 2 rooms there at least
[9:59] You: so.... comments?
[9:59] You: 10 minutes?
[9:59] Brian Livingston: The praertorium has the two rooms currenlty set up for judicial proceedigns, which could likely be redesigned and repurposed
[9:59] Symo Kurka: generally speaking
[9:59] You: ah, a note on that Brina
[9:59] You: Brian*
[9:59] You: the court room at the praetorium
[9:59] Sonja Strom: I personally would like a complete rethinking of the Schloss.
[9:59] You: is a silent zone
[10:00] You: if you close teh parcel
[10:00] Sonja Strom: I know a lot of work has been done on it, and I respect that.
[10:00] You: court sessions can be private
[10:00] Symo Kurka: we should rez adminisrative offices in weaker Sims, to improve traffic
[10:00] Sonja Strom: But we could take the good aspects of it and kind of start over.
[10:00] You: which was a need back then in that judiciary thingy... witness, etc
[10:00] You: so one question perhaps
[10:00] You: is
[10:00] Sonja Strom: For one thing, we should decide if it is a defensive building or a royal palace.
[10:01] You: do we still need that court?
[10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: i need a palace
[10:01] Brian Livingston: Ah, I wasn't aware of that design feature Moon, althoguh that may not bea bad thing for the SC to have?
[10:01] Sonja Strom: haha, TP, don't you have one already?
[10:01] Sudane Erato: a court really should be held in a skybox, for privacy
[10:01] You: but you close the praetorium
[10:01] You: you can't listen
[10:01] You: it's out of chat range that room
[10:02] You: of course
[10:02] You: with a development to CN west
[10:02] Sonja Strom: Hi Bjerkel!
[10:02] You: it will stop making sense
[10:02] You: helllo Bjerkel
[10:02] Jon Seattle: i Bjerkel
[10:02] Jon Seattle: *hi
[10:02] Symo Kurka: hi Bjer
[10:02] Brian Livingston: Unless that is taken into account in the design process
[10:02] You: can someone please update Bjerkel in IM?
[10:02] Bjerkel Eerie: dont bother
[10:02] You: well, but you'd have to close two parcels in two different sims
[10:03] You: Sudane may be right
[10:03] You: ok
[10:03] Brian Livingston: Hmm, true
[10:03] You: hmmm
[10:03] You: shall we create a workgroup for tehse matters?
[10:03] You: Reorganization of Gov Spaces Workgroup?
[10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: it would be cool to have a govt center
[10:04] You: do you think that could work?
[10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: maybe thats a new sim
[10:04] You: TP
[10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry
[10:04] You: we have TONS of space at the schloss lol
[10:04] You: rooms and rooms which are used twi ce a year
[10:04] You: in good years...
[10:04] Sudane Erato: but the Schloss is a palace... not the right image for the seat of democracy
[10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: ok then put it htere you are right
[10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: true sudane
[10:05] You: hmmm
[10:05] Sudane Erato: we should have more balls!
[10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: ramemebers need offices and staff and stuff
[10:05] Sonja Strom: In my hometown there is a famous Schloss
[10:05] You: some democracies are monarchies...
[10:05] Sonja Strom: The Stockalperschloss.
[10:06] Symo Kurka: and some monarchies are democracies
[10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: some are wacko
[10:06] You: i am afraid i can't agree with the notion, Sudane
[10:06] Sonja Strom: It is a museum, and a public place for events, like art exhibits, music, etc.
[10:06] Sudane Erato: then we'd need a monarch
[10:06] You: wwhat i know is that i have on one side
[10:06] You: a need for space
[10:06] You: and on the other side
[10:06] You: a huge space which isn't used
[10:06] You: so?...
[10:07] ThePrincess Parisi: yes but we need to consider dong things there that are appropriate i think, events.. and then make a government cneter.. a whole sim
[10:07] You: a whole sim?!
[10:07] You: what for?
[10:07] Bjerkel Eerie: huh?
[10:07] Sonja Strom: It could be a void sim.
[10:07] You: i mean, which size is our government?
[10:07] MT Lundquist: lol
[10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: yes the thing that really put s the CDS together in one piece and ...LOL void, yes, void of sense not prims
[10:08] Sudane Erato: hehe... we have a VERY large government for 70 citizens
[10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: but we ARE growing
[10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: we have over 80
[10:08] Sonja Strom: I have thought about that too...
[10:08] You: but surely we don't need one whole sim for them!
[10:08] You: or it!
[10:08] Sonja Strom: Maybe not now, but in future?
[10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: and if we ever get a sim.. it would be a draw and hub of CDS where the govt seats
[10:09] You: this is not Brasilia
[10:09] Sudane Erato: hehe
[10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: i think in the masterplan we need this..
[10:09] Brian Livingston: Eep... I can't imagine havign a government big enough to desrve a sim until well after the 20 sim mark.
[10:09] Sudane Erato: please remember that all sims need to be paid for
[10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: the thing that holds cds together
[10:09] Sudane Erato: and that a government sim would not generate income
[10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: we can put tiny apartments aound the edge
[10:09] You: i am sorry guys
[10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry .. ill hush again
[10:09] You: i don't agree
[10:09] Sonja Strom: Here is the link about the Chancellor's office thread: http://forums.slcds.info//viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1714
[10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: ok ..just an idea
[10:09] You: i agree with brian
[10:10] You: only well into the future we will need a washington DC
[10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: one day you will have a whole sim that is for the govt
[10:10] Symo Kurka: yes i thinka priority is nmaybe qualifiing CN
[10:10] You: but please remember
[10:10] You: that any memeber here can propose a motion for vote
[10:10] Brian Livingston: Then I can finally get my giant marble Koala statue. Woohoo!
[10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: moscow
[10:10] Brian Livingston pipes down
[10:10] Symo Kurka: lol
[10:10] Bjerkel Eerie: I cannot imangine ith then...what do Gov officials need offices for?? file cabinets? Plotting? putting feet up on virtual desks??
[10:11] Sudane Erato: file cabinents
[10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: yes bj and places to meet with our constituants and decorate
[10:11] Brian Livingston: Bjerkel, don't forget about the halls of portraits
[10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: statues!
[10:11] Sudane Erato: yes!... statues
[10:11] Brian Livingston: And some place to store our red tape.
[10:11] You: ok guys
[10:11] Brian Livingston: But I digress... :p
[10:11] You: 10 minutes are passed
[10:11] Sudane Erato:
[10:12] You: let's try and reach an agreement
[10:12] You: we all agree that each branch of gov should have a dedicated space?
[10:12] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[10:12] Brian Livingston: Err, I think it should be discussesd and examiend gfurther
[10:12] Brian Livingston: By the workgroup
[10:13] Sudane Erato: i agree with Brian
[10:13] You: is that a motion, Brian?
[10:13] Jon Seattle: I agree with Brian also
[10:13] Brian Livingston: Umm, it can be if the chair so wishes
[10:13] You: no, it's you who tells me if it is a motion
[10:13] You: then i ask if anyone seconds
[10:13] You: then we vote
[10:13] Sudane Erato:
[10:14] You: so, if you please?
[10:14] Jon Seattle: second.
[10:14] Brian Livingston: I move to create a workgroup tasked with examining a) the current space allocated to governemnt purposes in teh CDS, b) the needs and desired uses of space by each branch of teh CDS governemnt and c) The best manner to achieve these goals
[10:14] Symo Kurka: oh mg
[10:14] Sonja Strom: Hi Cynwulf!
[10:14] You: thank you
[10:14] You: anyone seconds?
[10:14] Cynwulf Darwin: Hi Sonja
[10:14] You: hi Cynwulf
[10:14] Jon Seattle: second
[10:14] Bjerkel Eerie: I second
[10:15] Brian Livingston: err, change goals to plans
[10:15] You: welcome to our meeting, who is transcripted
[10:15] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[10:15] You: hello Dnate
[10:15] Sonja Strom: Hi Dnate!
[10:15] You: sorry everyone
[10:15] MT Lundquist: hi cynwulf
[10:15] MT Lundquist: dnate
[10:15] Dnate Mars: Hi
[10:15] You: pause of two minutes
[10:15] ThePrincess Parisi: hi dnate and cyn
[10:15] Cynwulf Darwin: Hi MT
[10:15] Jon Seattle: Hi Cynw, Dante
[10:15] Brian Livingston waves to everyone
[10:15] Cynwulf Darwin: Hi Prin
[10:15] Cynwulf Darwin: Hi Jon
[10:15] You: so that newcomers can be updated in IM
[10:15] You: then, we will repeat the motion to vote
[10:16] Bjerkel Eerie: this is a vot do study not do, right?
[10:16] ThePrincess Parisi: right bj, i think
[10:16] Jon Seattle: yes
[10:17] You: Cyn and Dnate
[10:17] You: please tell us when you are updated and ready to vote
[10:18] You: and btw, recall that this meeting is transcripted
[10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[10:18] You: the rest, please consider your votes meanwhile
[10:18] Moon Adamant waits
[10:19] Sonja Strom: While we are waiting for them, I would like to say that I have a couple of items I would like to bring up for discussion.
[10:19] You: Sonja, after the motion, please
[10:19] Sonja Strom: sure
[10:19] Dnate Mars: I am ready
[10:20] You: Cyn?
[10:21] Cynwulf Darwin: Yes
[10:21] You: ok
[10:21] Symo Kurka: back
[10:21] You: everyone then, pay attention
[10:21] You: motion by
[10:21] You: Brian Livingston: I move to create a workgroup tasked with examining a) the current space allocated to governemnt purposes in teh CDS, b) the needs and desired uses of space by each branch of teh CDS governemnt and c) The best manner to achieve these goals
[10:21] Jon Seattle:
[10:21] You: all agreeing, say aye
[10:21] Cynwulf Darwin: Yes
[10:21] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[10:21] Jon Seattle: aye
[10:21] Sonja Strom: aye
[10:21] MT Lundquist: aye
[10:21] Dnate Mars: aye
[10:21] Sudane Erato: yes
[10:21] Symo Kurka: aye
[10:21] Brian Livingston: aye
[10:21] Bjerkel Eerie: aye
[10:22] You: and i vote aye as well
[10:22] You: motion passed
[10:22] You: volunteer to chair this workgroup?
[10:23] Sudane Erato: didn't Brian propose that this went to an existing workgroup?
[10:23] You: no
[10:23] You: we proposed the creation of a workgroup
[10:23] You: he*
[10:23] You: anyone?
[10:23] Symo Kurka: i would suggest Brian and TPP
[10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: lol symo
[10:24] Symo Kurka: why are you allergical to workgroups??
[10:24] Brian Livingston: I'll start teh discussion going on the forums if nothing else
[10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: brian and i .. um... no but brian may not want to work with me
[10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: i will do it iwth him if he wants
[10:25] You: ok, thank you
[10:25] You: i will be expecting reports, btw
[10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: ask brian if he canwork with me
[10:25] Brian Livingston: *shrug* I'm not one to turn down assistance
[10:25] You: anc count me in for the WG as well
[10:25] You: ok
[10:25] Brian Livingston: I'll start a forum post by EOB today with someinitial thoguhts
[10:26] You: next point hmmm
[10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: im his assistandt?
[10:26] Brian Livingston: some initial *
[10:26] You: Guys... get organized
[10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: no who is chairing? i dont understand
[10:27] You: do we need a vote to decide who is chairing?
[10:27] You: or can you decide that between the two of you?
[10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: we are in IM
[10:27] Symo Kurka: i suggest a co-charing
[10:27] Brian Livingston: *sigh* I really don't care. I'm willing to cahir to get this moving, but if someone else would prefer, I am more than happy ot step aside
[10:27] Symo Kurka: like old roman consuls
[10:27] You: Symo is right
[10:28] You: ok, then you are co-chairs?
[10:28] You: is that acceptable?
[10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: to me it is
[10:28] Brian Livingston: Sure
[10:28] Symo Kurka: like caesar and Pompeius but make love not war lol
[10:28] Sudane Erato: hehe
[10:28] You: ahahaha
[10:28] You: ok guys
[10:29] You: let me consult agenda... one sec
[10:29] You: ah
[10:29] You: reports now
[10:29] You: 6. Building Approval Committee WG - Report
[10:29] You: nothing to report yet, i think?
[10:30] Symo Kurka: not yet, arria was unfoundale
[10:30] Symo Kurka: lol
[10:30] You: yes
[10:30] Symo Kurka: i'm the only survivor
[10:30] You: ok, then with your approval
[10:30] You: oh
[10:30] You: then can we move to table it for next meeting?
[10:30] Symo Kurka: yess
[10:31] You: anyone opposes?
[10:31] Sudane Erato: no
[10:31] You: ok, i will tak ethe silence as agreement...
[10:32] You: tabled for next meeting
[10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: agreed
[10:32] Cynwulf Darwin: agreed
[10:32] You: anyone else opposes or agrees?
[10:33] Sonja Strom: agree
[10:33] Dnate Mars: agree
[10:33] Brian Livingston: agree
[10:33] You: i agree
[10:33] You: passed
[10:33] MT Lundquist: agree
[10:33] You: ok
[10:33] You: next point
[10:33] You: 7. Masterplan WG - Report
[10:33] You: Symo
[10:33] You: a brief report please
[10:33] Symo Kurka: yes
[10:33] Symo Kurka: well we had our first succesfull meeting today
[10:33] You: on the meeting just held before this
[10:34] Symo Kurka: decided to start with a survey on citizens and vistitors' needs and ecpectations
[10:34] Symo Kurka: we are defining a questionnaire
[10:34] Bjerkel Eerie: your visitor survey will be self selecting??
[10:35] Symo Kurka: and we'll have to find a reliable poll machine to get the widest results out of it
[10:35] Symo Kurka: we have to define technical issues on the poll software but in principle it should give a neutral result
[10:36] Symo Kurka: eg picking up a random number of visitors
[10:36] Symo Kurka: donno we'll check this, atm we just defined a draft questionnaire
[10:36] Cynwulf Darwin: Oh, you mean the selection process will be random
[10:36] Bjerkel Eerie: but participation will be self selection?
[10:36] Symo Kurka: and would be glad to share it with you all here
[10:36] You: bjerkel, atm
[10:36] ThePrincess Parisi: bj we talked abotu captuing other demographics
[10:36] You: we are defining the questionnaire
[10:36] Cynwulf Darwin: I would be interesting and perhaps informative
[10:37] Symo Kurka: yes the selection process should be random for visitors
[10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: at the info hub and at other places around sl .. too
[10:37] You: and we are studying how to implement it technically
[10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: no thats not what she means symo
[10:37] Symo Kurka: and sort of census for citizens
[10:37] Cynwulf Darwin: if we could gather some information about those who refuse the questrionnaire
[10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: she is saying we wont have a rep sample
[10:37] Cynwulf Darwin: \
[10:37] Cynwulf Darwin: Like form their profiles
[10:37] You: we will get the sample we will get
[10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: the only dem will be visitors.. we have to go out of cds to find out why ppl dont come here
[10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: or why they go where they do
[10:38] Cynwulf Darwin: That's true
[10:38] You: guys
[10:38] You: this meeting will be transcripted, btw
[10:38] You: and we have had a good discussion on those issues
[10:38] You: so please consult the transcipt, which i will publish as soon as this meeting is over
[10:38] Symo Kurka: ok, we just all agreed we ALL need to know more
[10:38] You: and feel free to add comments
[10:39] Bjerkel Eerie: ooh ok I am sorry for having any questions
[10:39] Symo Kurka: about citizens and visitors
[10:39] Symo Kurka: yes Bjer ask if you wish
[10:39] You: ok Symo
[10:39] You: are you through?
[10:39] Symo Kurka: ok
[10:40] You: it's just that we have to go abck to previosu point
[10:40] Symo Kurka: in the meanwhile i'm collecting more data on the actual situation
[10:40] You: Sonja, i apologize
[10:40] You: which were the comments you wanted to do after the motion?
[10:40] Symo Kurka: of three existing sims
[10:40] Sonja Strom: Is the discussion done?
[10:41] You: this point Mastrplan yes
[10:41] Sonja Strom: OK, thanks.
[10:41] You: but i want to apologize
[10:41] You: because i asked you to comment after the motion
[10:41] You: and then i moved to next point
[10:41] You: so the table is yours again
[10:41] Symo Kurka: any further questions?
[10:42] Sonja Strom: One thing is, it looks to me like there have been two meetings on the new Regional Masterplan that have taken place. One was just before this meeting. I would like for there to be better notice about them.
[10:42] Symo Kurka: any more volunteers'
[10:42] Symo Kurka: oh i'm sorry Sonja
[10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja she sent a notice but i didnt get it either, MT did
[10:42] Symo Kurka: i posted it in the GMPO thread
[10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: it was sl i think....
[10:42] You: it was posted with duly notice at the forums
[10:42] You: and we sent a notice
[10:43] Dnate Mars: notices have been off and on for at least a few weeks
[10:43] You: but there was some issue with it
[10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: inworld notices didnt go out to everyone..
[10:43] MT Lundquist: yes i think sl screwed up
[10:43] Sonja Strom: I didn't get anything at all about either of them, or hear about them until this meeting
[10:43] You: Sonja
[10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: but MT got his .. so i knwo theywent out,it was just a glitch
[10:43] Sonja Strom: Then I looked in the forum, and did find one post about the 2nd meeting by Symo.
[10:43] Sonja Strom: Made on Friday at 11:30 pm.
[10:43] You: it was posted in teh regional masterplan wg thread
[10:43] Symo Kurka: I apologize Sonja, but please follow the General Master plan forum
[10:44] Symo Kurka: *Regional
[10:44] Sonja Strom: here: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... =15#p10861
[10:44] Symo Kurka: it's there where you find ALL info
[10:44] Sonja Strom: It was not bad, but I think it could be done better in the future.
[10:44] You: well, Sonja
[10:44] You: to my surprise
[10:44] You: i only found out on friday too
[10:44] Symo Kurka: K Sonja any suggestion?
[10:45] You: That RA had been advanced to saturday
[10:45] You: ... effectively stopping me from attending it
[10:45] Bjerkel Eerie: I found out this morning when I logged on
[10:45] You: as i had a one-month appointment standing already
[10:45] You: so... these things happen
[10:45] Symo Kurka: well
[10:45] Sonja Strom: OK Moon, so you are suggesting that we do what?
[10:46] Symo Kurka: i anticipate we'll fix next meeting for next sunday, same hour same place
[10:46] Sonja Strom: My suggestion is that these meetings be posted more early and in a more clear way.
[10:46] Sonja Strom: I feel the same about the RA meetings.
[10:46] Sonja Strom: OK Symo, that helps.
[10:46] Brian Livingston: Perhaps cross post on the events forum?
[10:46] Symo Kurka: Sonja i agree with you but pls forgive my unexperience
[10:46] You: sonja, there is a CDS calendar in G Talk
[10:46] You: no, Brian
[10:46] You: events post is a mess
[10:47] You: forum*
[10:47] Sonja Strom: Why not have it in the Events thread?
[10:47] You: best way is to have regular slots
[10:47] Bjerkel Eerie: what are town squares for but to post meeting anouncemnts and event schedules....hmm street fairs??
[10:47] You: for instance, you all KNOW that the NG meets her at Sundays at 9AM SLT
[10:47] You: here*
[10:48] Symo Kurka: and now you all now next GMP meeting will be at Sunday 8 AM SLT in classroom 3
[10:48] You: exactly
[10:48] Cynwulf Darwin: Caladon Posts a lot of meetings in their towb squares and it seems to work well for them
[10:48] Symo Kurka: but i'll post this in the thread too
[10:49] You: Symo, can you please post THAT in the thread?
[10:49] Symo Kurka: sure
[10:49] Cynwulf Darwin: I think the more places the netter
[10:49] Symo Kurka: i will
[10:49] You: yes Cyn
[10:49] You: but atm
[10:49] Cynwulf Darwin: better
[10:49] Sonja Strom: Maybe that is enough said about this particular issue - but I just think as a little democracy it is important that we communicate about what is going on and how decisions are being reached.
[10:49] You: i miss a device that allows me to do it
[10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: new citizen!
[10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: alert alert
[10:49] Sonja Strom: The other item I wanted to bring up is actually related to that.
[10:50] Moon Adamant listens
[10:50] ThePrincess Parisi: no im just saying we just now got a new citizen
[10:50] Sonja Strom: The RA a while ago voted to purchase a new sim, and what kind of sim this would be.
[10:50] Sonja Strom: So far as I know this is clearly within its jurisdiction.
[10:50] You: yes?
[10:50] You: what is?
[10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: its already stated ancient roman right
[10:51] Sonja Strom: For it to decide that the CDS would purchase a new sim, and what it would be like.
[10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: it was already decided
[10:51] You: er Sonja
[10:51] Sonja Strom: now the RA is also considering now allowing outside private builders to come into the CDS.
[10:51] You: work has already started on the 4 sim plan
[10:51] Sonja Strom: Moon thank you for bringing that up.
[10:51] Symo Kurka: and has NOTHING to do with GMP
[10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: are we? .. lol
[10:52] Sonja Strom: May I continue?
[10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: i had no idea we were doing that sonja?
[10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[10:52] You: please do
[10:52] Cynwulf Darwin: really?
[10:52] Moon Adamant listens to Sonja
[10:52] Sonja Strom: This is all in the
[10:52] Sonja Strom: Forum
[10:52] Sonja Strom: It is also in the RA transcripts.
[10:52] Sonja Strom: Anyway, what I was wanting to say is
[10:53] ThePrincess Parisi: we have a bill before us that states teh opposite, that we can buy them privately actually
[10:53] Sonja Strom: TP, what?
[10:53] Moon Adamant listens to Sonja
[10:53] Sonja Strom wants to hear what ThePrincess is talking about
[10:53] ThePrincess Parisi: Sonja Strom: now the RA is also considering now allowing outside private builders to come into the CDS.
[10:53] ThePrincess Parisi: this is the opposite
[10:53] Sudane Erato: yes, could we clarify the point here?
[10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: we have a bill before us that says we can buy them from outside developers
[10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: not that we cannot
[10:54] You: unvoted yet
[10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: yes unvoted
[10:54] You: as i perceive
[10:54] Sonja Strom: Yes, it is a conversation in the RA atm
[10:54] You: ok
[10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: yes sonja
[10:54] MT Lundquist: yes
[10:54] You: so...?
[10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: and cooperating with the guild
[10:55] Sonja Strom: There have been some disputes made in the community about the RA acting on its own to make these decisions.
[10:55] Moon Adamant listens
[10:55] Sudane Erato: who else should make the decisions?
[10:55] Bjerkel Eerie: may I speak to this topic in a general way?
[10:55] Sonja Strom: Several people have made strong comments about that the citizens have been left out of these discussions, and decisions.
[10:55] You: guys, order
[10:55] Sonja Strom: May I please finish?
[10:55] You: Sonja first
[10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: they elected you sonja
[10:56] You: then Bjerkel
[10:56] You: Sonja, please continue
[10:56] You: though i may make a comment after
[10:56] Sonja Strom: So I am making a proposal in the RA that we have some consultation of the citizens, in whether or not they approve of these major changes that the RA is deciding.
[10:56] You: ok
[10:56] Sonja Strom: Specifically, having 2 referendum questions on the next ballot, in 2 weeks.
[10:57] Sonja Strom: 1 would be to approve of the 4th sim.
[10:57] You: i will speak in order
[10:57] Sonja Strom: The other would be to approve of allowing outside firms to build in the CDS.
[10:57] Sonja Strom: The reason I am wanting to bring this up is,
[10:58] Sonja Strom: now I am finding a lot of opposition to my trying to make these referendum questions.
[10:58] Sonja Strom: I would like to know how the Guild feels about having them be on the ballot.
[10:58] Sonja Strom: done, thanks!
[10:58] You: ok
[10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: from who sonja
[10:58] You: Bjerkel
[10:58] You: i will speak before you, if you don't mind
[10:58] You: Sonja
[10:59] You: the New Guild is not a political organization
[10:59] You: so, whatever passes at the RA
[10:59] You: unless it relates to work commissioned to the RA to the NG
[10:59] You: is not for us to discuss here
[10:59] Dnate Mars: yes, but these issues are directly related to part of teh role that the new guild plays in the CDS
[10:59] You: i am though surprised

[Moon Adamant]

[11:00] You: that you now tell me that you intend to ballot the 4th sim
[11:00] You: after telling me in teh forum that you didn't mean 4th sim, but 5th
[11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: i was at the meeting same as sonja...........and well i understood things very differently
[11:00] You: but in any case
[11:00] MT Lundquist: again not yet discussed at rza
[11:00] Sonja Strom: I proposed this in the Forum quite some time ago.
[11:00] You: please let me continue
[11:00] MT Lundquist: and the new sim is already approved by ra
[11:00] Sonja Strom: Anyway, it is still only a proposal.
[11:00] You: i will repluy as i replied in that forum
[11:00] Sonja Strom: The referendum concept, I mean MT.
[11:01] You: The RA has the sovereignity to decide upon all matters concerning representativity
[11:01] You: and thus, this discussion is to be held at the RA, not here
[11:01] MT Lundquist: agreed
[11:01] You: i will nevertheless *remind*
[11:01] Dnate Mars: very true moon, but also, asking of what the guild thinks of these issues is not a bad idea since they effect teh new guild directly
[11:01] You: that we are already doing work upon the 4th sim
[11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you moon..
[11:02] You: Dnate
[11:02] Symo Kurka: Sonja, Dnate, you could ask for a public debate on this subject, where ppl say thir opinion as citizens and not as guild members
[11:02] You: the NG is *not* a political organization
[11:02] Sonja Strom: OK, I will restate what I was asking.
[11:02] You: the issues that Sonja are raising are of a political nature
[11:03] Sonja Strom: I am not here wanting an official position from the New Guild.
[11:03] Dnate Mars: I know, but the members still have thoughts on subjects
[11:03] You: surely, Dnate
[11:03] Symo Kurka: yes Dnate you find tem atm in the forums
[11:03] You: and they are free to express them
[11:03] Sonja Strom: I am here asking what the citizens who are in this room think about my proposal that these referendum questions be on the next ballot.
[11:04] You: Sonja is that a motion to vote?
[11:04] Sonja Strom: No, it is an informational question, addressed to the citizens who are in this room.
[11:04] ThePrincess Parisi: no one in the RA has even looked at a referenda bill, sonja its not that the questions are an issue its the mechanism that needs to be put in place correctly first
[11:04] Sonja Strom: For purposes of discussion only.
[11:04] You: but why should we discuss those questions here?
[11:05] Cynwulf Darwin: Yes, I agree with Prin
[11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: what is the opinion of the room of the CDS buyin g private sims.. i move for a vote
[11:05] Sonja Strom: They are on the Forum TP, and I also gave them to you in notecard form.
[11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: thas what she wants to know
[11:05] You: when there is a space for those discussions to happen?
[11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: there is not a bill in front of us
[11:05] You: Princess
[11:05] Dnate Mars: I think the best thing would be that members of the guild post comments on the forums
[11:05] You: care to phrase the motion then?
[11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: i want to poll these ppl here
[11:06] Symo Kurka: es Dnate i absolutely agree or the Guild will be a mess
[11:06] Dnate Mars: I think the RA just wants input form those that are most effected by the proposals
[11:06] Sonja Strom: TP, a poll is ok, but I think a vote is too strong.
[11:06] You: Guys, as you know
[11:06] ThePrincess Parisi: How do you feel about the CDS having TWO ways to get sims, the GUild first, then also abiltity to buy them privately >>
[11:06] You: by our prodecures
[11:06] Jon Seattle: Well, I have two comments. I agree with Moon that this is not the place to discuss RA business. The NG does not and never did have a manopoloy in sim construction, so I don't know if Dnate's comment is true. Also the bill, as I understand it allows the NG to go ahead with sim projects as a private developer if it so wishes.
[11:06] You: any member can make a motion
[11:06] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont know how to phrase a motion
[11:06] ThePrincess Parisi: i move to ask that question i said
[11:06] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[11:06] Cynwulf Darwin: May I make a suggestion?
[11:06] You: if a second, then we proceed to vote
[11:07] MT Lundquist: second
[11:07] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[11:07] Sonja Strom: If you want to make a motion that is ok, but I want to be clear that was not my intention.
[11:07] You: can someone help there?
[11:07] Dnate Mars: I think this discussion needs to be move to the forums... there is still a lot of business that needs to completed today
[11:07] Cynwulf Darwin: Yes, if I may
[11:07] Cynwulf Darwin: May I speak moon?
[11:07] ThePrincess Parisi: you do not want to knwo what the guild thinks about the private sim devlopemnt sonja?
[11:07] Sonja Strom: I was only wanting to get some of your opinions about these issues.
[11:07] ThePrincess Parisi: no lets vote
[11:07] You: waqit wait
[11:07] ThePrincess Parisi: a motion will give you opinions
[11:07] You: order please
[11:07] Cynwulf Darwin: Hello
[11:08] You: Cyn has a comment - does this relate to thematter in discussion'
[11:08] Sonja Strom: OK, however the Guild decides to answer my inquiry is ok with me.
[11:08] Cynwulf Darwin: Ok
[11:08] Symo Kurka: I'M AGAINST A VOTE AIMED to make Guild meetinngs like RA meetings
[11:08] Cynwulf Darwin: Let me make a statement and then if everyone agrees we can proceed with a friendlier polling
[11:08] Symo Kurka: it's nonsense
[11:08] Jon Seattle: I second Symo's motion.
[11:08] Cynwulf Darwin: ok?
[11:08] You: guys, order
[11:08] Cynwulf Darwin: My statement is this
[11:09] You: Cyn, please
[11:09] Jon Seattle: Symo, I assume that was a motion?
[11:09] MT Lundquist: so we have 2 motions to vote on
[11:09] Symo Kurka: yes
[11:09] MT Lundquist: the first prins
[11:09] Cynwulf Darwin: Moon doesn't want to get us involved in politics
[11:09] MT Lundquist: then symos
[11:09] You: order, please!
[11:09] Cynwulf Darwin: I agree and given the
[11:09] Jon Seattle: Point of order
[11:09] Cynwulf Darwin: tennor of this meeting
[11:09] Symo Kurka: ???
[11:09] Jon Seattle raises his hand
[11:09] Symo Kurka: nonsense
[11:09] Cynwulf Darwin: it seems a good point
[11:09] Cynwulf Darwin: Howfdever,
[11:09] Cynwulf Darwin: However,
[11:09] Cynwulf Darwin: Sonja is within her rights to ask for a polling
[11:10] Cynwulf Darwin: of the members present
[11:10] Jon Seattle: According to Robert's rules a point of order should be heard first.
[11:10] Cynwulf Darwin: of their feelings
[11:10] Cynwulf Darwin: about her idea
[11:10] Cynwulf Darwin: So
[11:10] You: she is, according to our rules
[11:10] Cynwulf Darwin: her is what I propose..
[11:10] Cynwulf Darwin: I ask Prin if I may make a friendly amendment to her motiuon
[11:10] Cynwulf Darwin: \motion
[11:10] Cynwulf Darwin: that says
[11:10] ThePrincess Parisi: yes do it
[11:11] Cynwulf Darwin: I move to take an informal poll...
[11:11] Jon Seattle: point of order still comes first
[11:11] Cynwulf Darwin: of those memebrs present...
[11:11] You: let Cyn finish his statement
[11:11] Cynwulf Darwin: of their approval or disapproval of tweo points, as follow2s...
[11:11] Cynwulf Darwin: as follows...
[11:11] Cynwulf Darwin: Hang on a sec
[11:12] Cynwulf Darwin: Point 1...
[11:12] Cynwulf Darwin: Should the RA open the discussion of involving outside builders
[11:12] Cynwulf Darwin: to the general citizenship of the CDS.
[11:12] Cynwulf Darwin: and point 2...
[11:12] You: nsorry
[11:12] Symo Kurka: The Guild is a technical subject open to volunteers contribute and to educational purpose it is NOT a small parliament
[11:12] You: Cyn
[11:13] You: we can't vote onmatters pertaining to the RA!
[11:13] Jon Seattle: Yes, Symo is correct.
[11:13] Cynwulf Darwin: Should the RA open the discussion and approval process
[11:13] Symo Kurka: we all have personal opinions but we leave them OUT of that door
[11:13] You: sorry, Cyn
[11:13] Jon Seattle: Symo has a motion on he floor, regarding the adgenda
[11:13] Cynwulf Darwin: Remember, I said that this is an informal poll
[11:13] Cynwulf Darwin: not an official vote
[11:13] Bjerkel Eerie: sorry for asking to speak ahh how many outbursta ago?
[11:13] You: i can't accept that motion
[11:13] Cynwulf Darwin: but to continue
[11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: oh my
[11:14] Cynwulf Darwin: open the discussion for and approval of an additional sim to the general citizenry of the CDS.
[11:14] Jon Seattle: Moon, you are required to accept Symo's motion, that this is not business we should consider here.
[11:14] Cynwulf Darwin: That's my ammendment to Prin's motion,,,
[11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: shhh cyn ok ok
[11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: ok thanks
[11:14] Cynwulf Darwin: notw, ...
[11:14] Cynwulf Darwin: if she accepts it as a friendly amendment...
[11:14] You: are you through Cyn?
[11:14] Cynwulf Darwin: it does not need a vote
[11:15] Cynwulf Darwin: to approfve the ammendment
[11:15] You: are you through?
[11:15] Cynwulf Darwin: but can do directly to the poll of the memebers
[11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: if pat gets LRA hes taking my seat
[11:15] Cynwulf Darwin: Now AI'mn done
[11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[11:15] You: ok
[11:15] You: my comment
[11:15] You: Cyn
[11:15] You: the NG can't poll on RA's intentions
[11:15] Cynwulf Darwin: yes
[11:15] You: you understand why?
[11:15] Cynwulf Darwin: no
[11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: well... hes new he might not
[11:16] You: because the RA is the representativbes of teh people
[11:16] You: and teh Guild is anon.governmental organization
[11:16] You: that deal ONLY
[11:16] You: with technical matters
[11:16] You: to do with the creation of content in the CDs territory
[11:17] You: and the education of citizens in the CDS territory
[11:17] Cynwulf Darwin: Ok, but then the whole thing should never have been allowed to be brought to the state of making motions to begin with.
[11:17] Cynwulf Darwin: If we can't vote, then we can't vote
[11:17] Cynwulf Darwin: period
[11:17] You: so you see why, it would be like asking Manchester United, say, to poll its members on the House of Commons' policies
[11:18] You: that is why
[11:18] You: i made a statement
[11:18] Cynwulf Darwin: In a democracy, manchaster united has every right to be polled on policies of Parliment
[11:18] Cynwulf Darwin: It may not be helpful
[11:18] Cynwulf Darwin: but it is their legal right
[11:18] You: about the Guild not being the place to discuss political matters
[11:18] You: nevertheless
[11:18] You: our procedures
[11:19] You: oblige me to take any motion into vote that has been seconded
[11:19] Cynwulf Darwin: Then, as I said, if we have no legal right to conduct a poll, it should never have been allowed to proceed this far
[11:19] You: i quite agree
[11:19] Cynwulf Darwin: But we have no legal right to do that according to you?
[11:19] Cynwulf Darwin: I withdraw my amendment
[11:19] Cynwulf Darwin: No
[11:20] Cynwulf Darwin: I'm just making a point
[11:20] You: Cyn
[11:20] Cynwulf Darwin: either we do or we don't have a right
[11:20] You: i think you are failing to understand
[11:20] You: the scope of the orgs
[11:20] Dnate Mars: I need to go, I will see you later
[11:20] ThePrincess Parisi: bye dnate
[11:20] You: we are a non-governmental org
[11:20] Sonja Strom: OK, Dnate, thanks for being here.
[11:20] Cynwulf Darwin: bye
[11:20] Symo Kurka: sorry i have to go too
[11:20] MT Lundquist: bye denate
[11:20] Sonja Strom: OK, see you Symo.
[11:20] MT Lundquist: bye symo
[11:20] Cynwulf Darwin: bye dente
[11:21] You: who has a mission, a charter, and procedures
[11:21] Jon Seattle: Bye and thanks Symo and Dnate
[11:21] Cynwulf Darwin: I'm fine with accepting what you are saying
[11:21] You: our procedures
[11:21] Cynwulf Darwin: But , by accepting it, there are consequences that follow
[11:21] You: let me continue please
[11:22] You: our procedures state
[11:22] You: that a motion seconded must be voted
[11:22] You: but... it is understood that it applies to regular Guild business
[11:22] You: not to matters that don't belong to us
[11:22] You: in fact
[11:23] You: you have here two, no three REps
[11:23] You: who can explain much better, i feel
[11:23] You: why these matters don't belong to the Guild
[11:23] You: Sonja, Princesss, MT
[11:23] ThePrincess Parisi: we will have a chat ..
[11:23] You: who are representatives of the people of teh CDS
[11:23] You: so
[11:24] You: please ask them
[11:24] You: if they agree
[11:24] You: that the Guild
[11:24] You: makes decisions concerning RA business?
[11:24] Sonja Strom: I am sorry that this became such a contentious discussion...
[11:24] Cynwulf Darwin: May I ask one question
[11:24] ThePrincess Parisi: but moon i think sonja wants to knwo what the guild thinks about having private development of sims, and so do i
[11:25] Sonja Strom: Thank you TP, yes my inquiry was meant to be informal.
[11:25] You: ok
[11:25] Cynwulf Darwin: May I ask one question?
[11:25] You: the secreatry of the board
[11:25] You: one sec, Cyn, please
[11:25] Cynwulf Darwin: sure
[11:25] You: was consulted by the citizen and ReP Beathan Vale
[11:26] Jon Seattle: I think this is not something we should vote on here. If you want to ask guild members, as individuals, fine. But the Guild cannot take a position on votes before the RA.
[11:26] You: to analyse a proposal for sim private development
[11:26] You: the Sec of the Board, has, with permission of the requerent,
[11:26] You: organized a team of 11 people to discuss the proposal
[11:27] You: the drat analysis doc is published on teh forums, in teh General Discussion thread
[11:27] You: this team of 11 people comprised not only guild members
[11:27] ThePrincess Parisi: well you are working with beathan and coordinating with his proposal too right?
[11:27] You: as members of all GOV branches
[11:27] You: as members of all factions
[11:27] You: as experts belonging to no faction
[11:28] You: it will be my pleasure to work with beathan to coord the draft analysis with his proposal
[11:28] You: ok, Cyn, your question now please?
[11:29] Cynwulf Darwin: Would it be better for the group
[11:29] Cynwulf Darwin: If I simply withdrew my motion?
[11:29] You: sighs
[11:29] You: Cyn
[11:29] Cynwulf Darwin: Why the sigh?
[11:30] You: because i trying to clarify things here
[11:30] You: and to make a positive discussion
[11:30] Cynwulf Darwin: So am I
[11:30] Cynwulf Darwin: I made a motion
[11:30] You: the thing is
[11:30] You: exactly
[11:30] Jack Daniels Whiskey whispers: watch that third sip
[11:30] You: which, if seconded, i am obliged to accept
[11:31] You: and put to vote
[11:31] You: what i am trying to explain
[11:31] You: is that the matter of the motion
[11:31] You: doesn't concern the Guild
[11:31] You: it'san RA matter
[11:32] You: again, my example, Manchester United polling their memebers about the House of Commons' policy
[11:32] Cynwulf Darwin: My point however is a parlimentary one
[11:32] Cynwulf Darwin: Sicne a motion is before the group
[11:32] MT Lundquist: i think i may need to go to
[11:32] Cynwulf Darwin: If I withdraw it
[11:32] You: of course that the members of MU are entitled to have a pov
[11:32] You: and express it
[11:32] Cynwulf Darwin: there is no porblem
[11:32] Sonja Strom: OK MT, thanks for being here!
[11:32] You: but in teh middle of a MU ganme?!
[11:32] Cynwulf Darwin: You're missing my point
[11:33] Brian Livingston is quickly coming up on the point that he needs to leave by
[11:33] Cynwulf Darwin: so am i
[11:33] You: no, you are missing MY point
[11:33] You: you yourself have said
[11:33] You: [11:32] Cynwulf Darwin: My point however is a parlimentary one
[11:34] You: and this is not... parliament
[11:34] Cynwulf Darwin: hang on
[11:34] Cynwulf Darwin: now I know your missing my point
[11:34] Cynwulf Darwin: I don't mean parliment as in London
[11:34] Cynwulf Darwin: I mean parlimentary procedure
[11:35] Cynwulf Darwin: which binds most organizations
[11:35] You: sighs
[11:35] Cynwulf Darwin: a motion must be withdrawn
[11:35] You: then pre4sent your motion
[11:35] You: or withdraw it
[11:35] Cynwulf Darwin: or seconded and voted on
[11:35] You: you're free to present it
[11:35] Cynwulf Darwin: I withdraw it
[11:35] Cynwulf Darwin: I was only trying to help, withing a parlimentary procedure framework
[11:35] Cynwulf Darwin: Were you simple going to ignroe procedures
[11:36] You: i NEVER ignore procedures
[11:36] Cynwulf Darwin: Hang on
[11:36] You: thus i am saying
[11:36] You: move or withdraw
[11:37] You: and we will follow the procedures
[11:37] Beathan Vale: hello
[11:37] Sonja Strom: Hi Beathan!
[11:37] Jon Seattle: Hi beathan.
[11:38] Beathan Vale: stopping by in case anyone has qs fo rme
[11:38] You: hello beathan
[11:38] Cynwulf Darwin: Hi beathan
[11:38] You: please remember that this meeting is transcripted
[11:38] Cynwulf Darwin: Moon, I'm not trying to be an ass here
[11:38] You: and can someone please try and update Beathan on the discussion by IM?
[11:38] Cynwulf Darwin: I made that proposal to try to help calm tghe situation
[11:38] You: Cyn
[11:38] You: i know
[11:39] Sonja Strom: Hi Tessie! Welcome...
[11:39] MT Lundquist: hi tessie
[11:39] You: but now you have here yet another Rep of the people
[11:39] Tessie Teebrook: Hi
[11:39] Cynwulf Darwin: I'm very frustrated
[11:39] You: to ask from him
[11:39] ThePrincess Parisi: hi tessie
[11:39] You: whta does he feel abbout NG voting on matters pertaining to the RA
[11:39] You: hello Tessie, welcome
[11:39] Tessie Teebrook: Hi all .. nice to meet you
[11:39] Tessie Teebrook: sorry I'm late
[11:39] Cynwulf Darwin: Hi Tessie
[11:39] You: do have a seat, this meeting will be transcripted into the NG forums
[11:40] Beathan Vale: I think that the NG's perspective is a very useful one for the RA to consider -- but don't expect up to always follow NG recommendations
[11:40] You: yes, beathan
[11:40] Brian Livingston: Ok, I need to run. See you all later.
[11:40] Jon Seattle: Its getting late. Can we ajourn?
[11:41] Sonja Strom: See you Brian!
[11:41] You: i have this point to finish
[11:41] Jon Seattle: Bye and thanks Brian
[11:41] You: and a report to present on 4th sim workgroup
[11:41] You: so unless you move to adjourn and are seconded
[11:42] You: i coudl carry on
[11:42] Cynwulf Darwin: YW
[11:42] Sonja Strom: You are welcome to continue, Moon...
[11:42] You: as i was explaining Beathan
[11:43] You: there was a suggestion here that the NG should express an opinion on political matters
[11:43] You: now as you all know
[11:43] You: that is not the scope of the NG
[11:43] Sonja Strom: well, Moon, I have a correction there.
[11:43] ThePrincess Parisi: how you feel about a private devolopemnt happening? is a soley political mater?
[11:43] You: a lively discussion ensued
[11:44] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont think it is soley political, it involves you
[11:44] Cynwulf Darwin: I don't think they are entirely political
[11:44] You: TP, my opinion is on the draft analysis published
[11:44] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja wants input
[11:44] Sonja Strom: and not officially representin a position of the New Guild - only seeing what the opinions of the people in the room were.
[11:44] Beathan Vale: I am all for the NG expressing an opinion on matters of development and expansion, even if those matters are under political debate or pending in the RA -- but the NG should try to avoid political matters outside its scope of action (building, design, expansion)
[11:45] You: that indeed beathan
[11:45] Cynwulf Darwin: yes
[11:45] You: has been the matter of debate for the last half hour
[11:45] You: i was explaining
[11:45] You: that procedurally
[11:46] You: if a member moves to vote and is seconded, i must accept the vote
[11:46] You: and so we were at the point
[11:46] You: where the memebers present
[11:46] You: were deciding if they wanted to move or withdraw
[11:46] ThePrincess Parisi: i wanted to kno wmy self
[11:47] ThePrincess Parisi: so i stand with what i asked
[11:47] Beathan Vale: well -- I'm not sure that is true -- given the limited scope of the NG's area of operation, votes called and seconded can still be out of order if nontopical
[11:47] Cynwulf Darwin: I withdrew my motion, but sonja's is still on the table and was seconded by Prin
[11:47] You: Beathan, my opinion again
[11:47] Sonja Strom: I don't remember having made any motion...
[11:47] You: which i have duly expressed
[11:47] You: yes, actually i was going to ask you if you had made a motion
[11:48] Sonja Strom: I never wanted an official position.
[11:48] ThePrincess Parisi: i did
[11:48] ThePrincess Parisi: i made a motion
[11:48] Jon Seattle: Yes, an we also have a motion on the agenda, also seconded that it is inappropriate for the NG to take a position in this matter.
[11:48] ThePrincess Parisi: and it was seconded
[11:48] You: well, TP, i asked you to phrase the motion
[11:48] Beathan Vale: but -- of course -- I am expressing an opinion based on my own experience of RL procedures -- the NG can run its meetings however it wishes and can set its own procedures
[11:48] Jon Seattle: And so a point of order..
[11:48] ThePrincess Parisi: i did
[11:48] You: no, you said you couldn't
[11:48] ThePrincess Parisi: i said i move to ask the question
[11:48] Cynwulf Darwin: Yes she did
[11:48] ThePrincess Parisi: well i didnt kno w if it was perfect
[11:49] You: yes, but which question?
[11:49] ThePrincess Parisi: but i said i move to ask the question then i stated it
[11:49] ThePrincess Parisi: " read back.. i said something lke
[11:49] Jon Seattle: Symo's motion takes precidence in that case.
[11:49] You: then Cyn proposed a friendly amend to your motion
[11:49] ThePrincess Parisi: how do you in the room feel about private sim developemnt.. on and on
[11:49] ThePrincess Parisi: why?
[11:49] ThePrincess Parisi: symo wa s afte rme
[11:49] You: but Princess
[11:49] ThePrincess Parisi: symo was after me
[11:50] ThePrincess Parisi: and i denied cyns amendment
[11:50] Cynwulf Darwin: Yes
[11:50] You: that is not a question to which people can answer Aye or Nay
[11:50] ThePrincess Parisi: it is
[11:50] Jon Seattle: Princess, motions concerning procedure take precidence
[11:50] You: no, it is not
[11:50] ThePrincess Parisi: i made a question back then an hour ago that was yay ao or no
[11:50] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[11:50] You: so now
[11:50] ThePrincess Parisi: its do you vote yay or nay to . having cds use two systems to get new sims
[11:50] You: i am a bit lost
[11:51] You: because i didn't call an assistant
[11:51] ThePrincess Parisi: well for some reason i will tke it that you dont want the guild to talk about this
[11:51] Cynwulf Darwin: Prin's motion was first
[11:51] Jon Seattle: Princess, taking about it is fine, taking a stand on it is not fine
[11:51] Jon Seattle: There is a huge difference
[11:51] Cynwulf Darwin: I disagree
[11:51] You: my dear, i want the Guild to discuss the private sim developments
[11:52] You: what i don't think correct is the Guild votioing if teh RA should make a referenda on it
[11:52] Cynwulf Darwin: I move to call the question
[11:52] You: which question'
[11:52] You: ?
[11:52] Cynwulf Darwin: Prins
[11:52] Cynwulf Darwin: the motion that prin made
[11:52] ThePrincess Parisi: are you for or against private sim dev along with the guild doing it too
[11:52] You: please paste it again into chat
[11:52] ThePrincess Parisi: you asked jon if someone was for a logo?
[11:53] Sonja Strom: Jon, essentially I was asking the people in the room to talk about it, and was clear I did was not asking for a stand. If the Guild wanted to do take a stand it would be fine with me, but that is not at all what I asked for.
[11:53] ThePrincess Parisi: for everyone to say their opinion
[11:53] Jon Seattle: Sonja, then who made this a motion?
[11:53] Sonja Strom: ThePrincess, I think.
[11:53] ThePrincess Parisi: i did cos no one would answer sonja
[11:53] Cynwulf Darwin: Yes
[11:53] Cynwulf Darwin: Prin made it
[11:54] Jon Seattle: Princess, is this your motion?
[11:54] ThePrincess Parisi: it was .. i was trying to help
[11:54] Cynwulf Darwin: MT seconded if I recall correctly
[11:54] ThePrincess Parisi: yes he did
[11:54] ThePrincess Parisi: but if i did it wrong then so .. oh well
[11:54] ThePrincess Parisi: you win jon
[11:54] You: well, then i ask again
[11:54] ThePrincess Parisi: whatever you want jon, i hope you are happy
[11:54] You: do you move or do you withdraw?
[11:54] ThePrincess Parisi: i move that this is a shambles
[11:54] ThePrincess Parisi: and a joke
[11:55] ThePrincess Parisi: hows that
[11:55] You: kindly respect this assembly
[11:55] You: please
[11:55] Sonja Strom: Really my intention was only to have your thoughts on what I was doing.
[11:55] You: do you move or do tyou withdraw?
[11:55] Cynwulf Darwin: I move the question
[11:55] Jon Seattle: Sonja, I support your privatly polling people's thoughts and discussion
[11:56] Sonja Strom: Essentially it was an effort to be a good Representative for you in this room, and for the community.
[11:56] You: if you move, please phrase your sentence in a way that it can be answered by aye or Nay
[11:56] You: and Sonja, i a gree with Jon
[11:56] You: you have the total right to private poll people
[11:56] Sonja Strom: OK, from now on I will only talk with individuals, one at a time.
[11:56] Cynwulf Darwin: I move that we vote on the motion that prin made and that was seconded by MT
[11:57] Sonja Strom: Sorry to have bothered you.
[11:57] You: ok, phrase the sentence so that it can be answered by Aye or Nay
[11:57] Sonja Strom: Now I will let you get back to your important Guild work.
[11:57] Cynwulf Darwin: Ok
[11:57] Sonja Strom: Bye
[11:58] You: wait a sec
[11:58] You: Tessie, are you a citizen?
[11:58] Cynwulf Darwin: I move that we vote on the motion that Prin made, such that approval is an aye and disapproval is a nay
[11:58] Jon Seattle: Yes, she is
[11:58] Tessie Teebrook: yes
[11:58] You: just checking quorum
[11:58] You: but Cyn
[11:59] Jon Seattle: Can you read out the text of the motion? I am kind of lost.
[11:59] Cynwulf Darwin: yes?
[11:59] You: please reccall the question
[11:59] Cynwulf Darwin: I don't remember the text of the motion, but let me see if I can find it
[11:59] You: we have the exact quorum to vote
[11:59] You: ok, i will wait
[12:00] Beathan Vale: I am not a member -- just an observer -- so please don't count me for a quorum
[12:00] Cynwulf Darwin: I cann't locate the question. How do we propceedd?
[12:00] You: Beathan, if you are not willing to vote
[12:00] You: then we don't have a quorum
[12:01] Cynwulf Darwin: I would submit however, for the record, that it is the obligation of the committee officials to maintain those records
[12:01] Beathan Vale: I don't want to involve myself in NG matters -- as there has been confusion over the NGO status of the NG -- so, to remain pristine, I am a nonparticipating observer here to answer any questions about expansion and the private sim proposal that members of the NG may have
[12:02] You: ok, so we have no quorum
[12:02] Jon Seattle: Cyn only once a motion has been presented. This is a bit muddgled.
[12:02] Jon Seattle: *middled
[12:02] You: i would have accepted your vote beathan
[12:02] Beathan Vale: other members of the RA wear multiple hats, I prefer to wear just one
[12:02] Jon Seattle: *muddled
[12:02] Tessie Teebrook: excuse me
[12:02] Tessie Teebrook: but due to my newness I feel I have to abstain from any voting matters
[12:02] Cynwulf Darwin: Sorry, jon, but any motion that is made and seconded is a motion...
[12:02] You: in any case
[12:02] You: ok tess
[12:02] Tessie Teebrook: I'm confused about what is being voted on
[12:02] You: i would have accepted your vote too, mind
[12:02] Cynwulf Darwin: if it were unacceptable, it should be stated as such at the time
[12:02] Tessie Teebrook: or not!
[12:03] Cynwulf Darwin: again for the record
[12:03] Beathan Vale: but it is good to see the RA is not the only organization to get bogged down in procedural swamps now and then
[12:03] You: which i did Cyn
[12:03] You: mancheter united example?
[12:03] You: i am very sorry
[12:03] Jon Seattle: For the record I would point out that supporters of the motion are unsure what the text of the motion is.
[12:03] Tessie Teebrook: excuse me .. I will read about the outcome in the recordings
[12:03] Cynwulf Darwin: that was addressed to my statement not to Prin's motion
[12:04] Tessie Teebrook: nice day fokls
[12:04] Cynwulf Darwin: see you tessie
[12:04] You: tessie, thank you so very much for showing up
[12:04] You: ok
[12:04] Cynwulf Darwin: But, since we have no quorum it is a mute point
[12:04] Cynwulf Darwin: no vote can be taken on anything
[12:04] You: atm, no
[12:04] You: in fact, atm, we have reached minimal quorum for the meeting
[12:05] You: and i move to adjourn
[12:05] Cynwulf Darwin: Anyway, I suppose that the only thing we can officially do is vote to adjourn
[12:05] Cynwulf Darwin: seconded
[12:05] You: i had a report to make on the progress of the 4th sim...
[12:05] You: it will have to wait...
[12:05] Cynwulf Darwin: sorry Moon
[12:05] You: thank you Cyn, for seconding
[12:05] Cynwulf Darwin: yw
[12:05] You: we are adjourned