4th Sim Meeting WG - 27th April 2008 - transcript

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Moon Adamant
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4th Sim Meeting WG - 27th April 2008 - transcript

Post by Moon Adamant »

[12:13] You: ok, let's start
[12:14] You: this will be transcripted too
[12:14] You: ok
[12:14] Ulysse Alexandre: ok
[12:14] You: first of all
[12:14] You: this beautiful model here was done by Symo
[12:14] You: it shows CN
[12:14] You: and what we can deduct about the sims next to CN
[12:15] You: by this i mean
[12:15] You: CN-West MUST have the river insertion at that point
[12:15] You: and the highest point of CN-East is dependent on the theatre hill
[12:16] You: these are what we can safely assume
[12:16] You: now, the numbers and colours refer to densities
[12:16] You: you will see that brown and 03 are the dense city
[12:17] You: 01 and light green are klow density... the villae area
[12:17] You: 04 and mustard colour are public open space
[12:17] You: and 02 is medium density
[12:18] You: now, what do we observe immediately
[12:18] You: ?
[12:18] You: let's ignore CN North so far
[12:18] Rose Springvale: very little public space
[12:18] You: we can see that in CN West
[12:18] You: the river cuts the sim in two
[12:18] You: which allows that we have two density zones
[12:18] Rose Springvale: give tice as many river lots too
[12:19] Rose Springvale: twice*
[12:19] You: a denser zone, closer to the city... 'third wall' effect?
[12:19] You: and a zone which can be more airy
[12:19] You: on CN East
[12:19] Arria Perreault: do the color have a sense? I guess yes
[12:19] You: yes Arria
[12:19] You: Brown: high density
[12:19] You: green: medium density
[12:20] You: light green: low density
[12:20] You: mustard: special public space
[12:20] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:20] You: what you can see in CN-East
[12:20] Ulysse Alexandre: may I have an exemple of medium density area?
[12:20] You: is that we have no geographical things
[12:21] You: hmmm..... think somehwat more packed than villae area in CN
[12:21] Rose Springvale: now, alpine meadow is to the south correct?
[12:21] Rose Springvale: so that theoreticaly CN EAst and WEst wil tie to mountins?
[12:21] You: alpine meadow is where i stand
[12:21] You: yes
[12:21] Ulysse Alexandre: seems to me that the o1 area in CN are already medium density
[12:22] You: well, i can't comment the criteria that Symo used to calculate these
[12:22] You: as myself and him work in different ways
[12:22] Ulysse Alexandre: 01 is like the Montains in AM
[12:22] You: most possibly
[12:22] You: well
[12:23] You: i am not sure too at this point
[12:23] You: how much the covenants for CN have been respected
[12:23] Rose Springvale: not much at all i'm afraid
[12:23] Rose Springvale: sigh
[12:23] You: meaning, perhaps this villa area was much less denser in the past
[12:24] You: and now is cluttered
[12:24] You: but anyway
[12:24] You: notice that in CN East
[12:24] You: i have no geographical way
[12:24] You: to cut the sim in two different areas
[12:25] You: which means that if i have a medium density in CN east
[12:25] You: it will be only across teh river from whatever is built on AM-East
[12:25] You: while on CN -West
[12:25] You: i have the possibility to send smaller plots northwards
[12:26] You: and have a more airy area in the south
[12:26] Arria Perreault: I am sorry. I have to go. Still many things to do before the party :-)
[12:26] Arria Perreault: see you soon :-)
[12:26] You: ok Arria, np at all! .)
[12:26] You: see you there! .)
[12:26] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:26] Rose Springvale: moon, what about extending the lake.. so that perhaps am east would be more lake?
[12:26] Ulysse Alexandre: A+
[12:27] You: oops, phone, 1 sec
[12:27] Rose Springvale: or perhaps the slope of AM makes that harder
[12:27] Rose Springvale: i'll brb too
[12:28] Rose Springvale: back
[12:28] Ulysse Alexandre: and why not ending the east part with a costline?
[12:29] Ulysse Alexandre: coastline
[12:29] You: sorry back
[12:29] You: one thong we must consider too is
[12:29] You: that as much we keep water level near AM-east
[12:30] You: the more sloped AM-East will have to be
[12:30] Rose Springvale: right
[12:30] You: in my mind, it won't need to be sloped as AM
[12:30] Rose Springvale: might be appropriate for a void though
[12:30] You: but quite frankly
[12:30] You: i would make the river meander northwards in CN east
[12:30] You: but anyway
[12:31] You: these are assumptions from the work Symo himself is doing on his masterplan
[12:31] Rose Springvale: yes, more natural, more to do
[12:31] You: and i can consider that hmmmm
[12:31] You: /is thinking
[12:31] You: now, what we must understand too is this
[12:32] You: yes Ulysse?
[12:32] Ulysse Alexandre: south of CN east can be a void of water with a little island
[12:32] Rose Springvale: but still has to tie to the mountain
[12:32] You: no, it can't
[12:32] You: you have a mountain slope to fill there
[12:32] Ulysse Alexandre: we can have a kind of gulf here
[12:33] You: AM-East will always have to be a slope
[12:33] Rose Springvale: maybe a mountain range.. with a couple of peaks...
[12:33] You: don't foget
[12:33] Rose Springvale: one short, one up to NFS level
[12:33] You: that AM-East
[12:33] You: is border to NFS East too :)
[12:33] You: so actually
[12:33] You: we are looking at the most complicated bit in the whole masterplan
[12:33] Rose Springvale: this is like playing with blocks :)
[12:33] You: but anyway
[12:33] You: we are not doing masterplan
[12:33] You: we are doing 4th sim
[12:34] Rose Springvale: we are focusing :)
[12:34] You: now let's see what the RA wants
[12:34] You: they want 50 plots, or around that
[12:34] You: i want to propose them a few less plots
[12:34] You: around 45-46
[12:34] You: but witha multiplier on the sim
[12:34] You: to make plots more attractive
[12:35] You: and give higher life quality to residents
[12:35] Rose Springvale thinks moon knows she is always in favor of more prims for lots
[12:35] You: they want these plots to be between 512m2 and 1024 m2
[12:35] You: oh, but i am too!
[12:35] You: most people can't build
[12:35] Rose Springvale: do they have a price they want them to be?
[12:35] You: they have to buy stuff
[12:36] Rose Springvale: yes
[12:36] Rose Springvale: or have custom
[12:36] You: often peopel buy stuff that doesn't FIT
[12:36] Rose Springvale: which most ppl buying 512 lots can't afford
[12:36] You: exactly
[12:36] You: also
[12:36] You: roman style is more demanding than fachwerk
[12:36] You: fachwerk can be done almost all with textures
[12:36] You: look at my fachwerks
[12:37] You: roman needs columns, frieses, etc
[12:37] Rose Springvale: yes
[12:37] Rose Springvale: adn roman furniture tends to be high prim too
[12:37] You: which demand a higher skill in texturisation
[12:37] You: or being made of prims
[12:37] Rose Springvale: at least what is on the market
[12:37] Rose Springvale: hi brian
[12:38] You: hey Brian :)
[12:38] Ulysse Alexandre: it is now easier with sculpties
[12:38] You: yes, but even so lol
[12:38] Brian Livingston: Hi all, sorry about leavign so soon i nthe Guild Meeting. Had to look ata crappy apartment that I'll never rent :p
[12:38] You: i can tell you that for a model of Pomepy's theatre at Rome
[12:38] You: which we did
[12:38] You: we spent WEEKS doing the columns and frieses
[12:38] You: it's tru also that we were doing a scientifical visualization
[12:39] You: so all proportions correct, etc
[12:39] You: lol Brian
[12:39] You: but sorry to hear it didn't suit you :(
[12:39] Brian Livingston: Eh, it's what I expected.
[12:39] You: Ok, brian, very briefly
[12:39] You: Symo's model
[12:39] You: brown: high density
[12:40] You: green: medium density
[12:40] You: light green: low density
[12:40] You: mustard: special public space
[12:40] You: heights, roadas and river correct
[12:41] Brian Livingston: Spiffy :)
[12:41] You: but we were staring the discussion of what are the RA specs now
[12:41] You: you know they voted around 50 plots
[12:41] You: 512-1024 m2 range
[12:42] You: i am suggesting that we propose about 10% less
[12:42] You: but add a multiplier to the sim
[12:42] You: so that life quality is enhanced
[12:42] You: they also request
[12:42] You: gardens
[12:43] You: and this, i think, is the key to our problems here
[12:43] You: because gardens can replace roads and plazas, see?
[12:43] Rose Springvale: yes
[12:43] Ulysse Alexandre: ok
[12:44] You: so instead of having an ugly street, very thin, with houses, houses, houses
[12:44] You: i can
[12:44] You: using the slope of the terrain
[12:44] You: open plazas that are belvederes or scenic views
[12:44] You: and give access to houses through them
[12:45] You: making the urban tissue 'breathe' there
[12:45] Rose Springvale: i like that idea a lot
[12:45] Rose Springvale: gets away from the tenement/slum feel
[12:45] Ulysse Alexandre: in that perspective why not ending east with a coastline?
[12:45] Brian Livingston: so some number of plots would open up on a central garden/square area?
[12:45] Brian Livingston: linked to another clsuter by a road?
[12:45] Brian Livingston: or lane or whatnot?
[12:45] You: Ulyseee, because atm i am not sure how the masterplan ends eastwards
[12:46] You: you have to suggest that to Symo
[12:46] You: i know he has been thinking in terms of clusters
[12:46] Rose Springvale: thinks... maybe nea hora further east.
[12:46] You: in fact, if you go to classroom 3
[12:46] Ulysse Alexandre: in the Masterplan I know there are no sim eastward
[12:46] You: the masterplan that i made is outdated
[12:46] You: Symo is rethinking it completely
[12:47] You: and doing a much better job, i must say
[12:47] Rose Springvale: very comprehensive, from what i've seen
[12:47] Ulysse Alexandre: ok
[12:47] Rose Springvale: makes this part much easier yes?
[12:47] You: but back to the 4th sim
[12:47] You: in a sense, yes
[12:47] You: if i have a terrain, geographical constraints
[12:47] You: for me at least
[12:48] You: is MUCH easier to plan stuff
[12:48] Rose Springvale: so
[12:48] Rose Springvale: if your questio is
[12:48] Rose Springvale: a) 10% fewer lots with interspersed gardens, adn prim bonus
[12:48] Rose Springvale: then i support it
[12:48] You: yes, it is
[12:49] You: i have made some skteches and reckonings
[12:49] You: and i think it's possibl
[12:49] Rose Springvale: how do you feel, brian, ulysse?
[12:49] You: for both sims, mind
[12:49] Ulysse Alexandre: ok, lets go with this idea
[12:50] You: but i would like to explore the river bending northwards in CN east now too
[12:50] You: what i think is
[12:50] Rose Springvale: i think river bends are beautiful
[12:50] You: well, we will have a mix of plots
[12:50] Rose Springvale: and make the land more valuable
[12:50] You: from 512 to 1024
[12:50] Brian Livingston: I think having the multiplier would be a nice selling point and there would still be the general level of plots available per hthe RA's request
[12:50] You: most possibly, more 512 than 1024
[12:50] Rose Springvale: and the option to puchase more lots
[12:51] Rose Springvale: to increase the size of any particular estate
[12:51] You: but i think we can AVOID the SLUM feeling
[12:51] Rose Springvale: there are enough slums in sl . its called "mainland"
[12:51] You: by using the gardens to make the urban space breathe
[12:51] You: and also another thing
[12:52] Rose Springvale: arria wanted cemeteries i think..yes?
[12:52] You: we can make quays
[12:52] You: and let the sim brethe too over the quays
[12:52] Ulysse Alexandre: on the riverbank
[12:52] You: yes
[12:52] You: make the quays a bit organical
[12:53] You: and you'll break too the feeling that it's all very crumpled
[12:53] Rose Springvale: organical is a moonism :)
[12:53] Ulysse Alexandre: as the one in CN
[12:53] You: besides, we will need open spaces
[12:53] Rose Springvale: organic :)
[12:53] You: for parties, etc
[12:53] Brian Livingston: Now, are we workign on CN East or West?
[12:53] Ulysse Alexandre: and rowing
[12:53] You: what about having a party by the river?
[12:53] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:54] You: well, i have sketches for both
[12:54] Brian Livingston: I know there was discussion of goign from the east sim to teh west one
[12:54] Ulysse Alexandre: and skating in winter
[12:54] Rose Springvale: has two river lots for just that reason
[12:54] Rose Springvale: and canoes
[12:54] Rose Springvale: and swim balls
[12:54] Rose Springvale: and skates :)
[12:54] You: they are similar in their results
[12:54] You: CN-east makes a more compact sim
[12:54] Ulysse Alexandre: in that sense it will be better west than east for the moment
[12:54] You: CN_west has the natural fracture of the river
[12:55] You: another oint which is important too
[12:55] You: is that we will be placing higher densities in CN East next to the villae
[12:55] You: while in CN-West, what happens is that we make a city outside a city
[12:56] Rose Springvale: isn't cn east what RA specified?
[12:56] You: you know... sort of the old city became too small... we built more houses... oh, how handy the city walls, one less wall to build!
[12:56] Rose Springvale: smile
[12:56] You: yes, but i think that was an inheritance from al-andalus project
[12:57] You: which was in CN-east
[12:57] You: in any case
[12:57] Rose Springvale: ?
[12:57] You: i have been given a hint
[12:57] You: that we must not approach the RA with questions
[12:57] You: but with solutions
[12:57] Rose Springvale: oh. well. lol
[12:57] Rose Springvale: hate to trouble the RA
[12:57] Rose Springvale: ::rolls eyes::
[12:57] You: ehehehe
[12:58] You: wait till you read yesterday's transcript :9
[12:58] Rose Springvale: can hardly wait
[12:58] Rose Springvale: so you want to go with west first Moon?
[12:58] You: no no no you'll enjoy it, you'll see
[12:58] You: i woudl go west first
[12:59] Rose Springvale: okay
[12:59] Rose Springvale: so lets do it
[12:59] Ulysse Alexandre: I think west will be better and easier to fill
[12:59] You: ok
[12:59] Rose Springvale: i have an idea already :)
[12:59] You: but now guys
[12:59] You: do you want to propose layouts?
[12:59] Rose Springvale: i want to see your sketches
[12:59] You: look at that NICE grid i posted
[13:00] You: which is halfwork done lol
[13:00] Brian Livingston: hehe
[13:00] Rose Springvale: you have seen my attempts at detail lol .. i'll watch this time!
[13:00] You: lol, ok
[13:00] You: but what say you, Ulysse and Brian?
[13:01] Ulysse Alexandre: where I have to see something?
[13:01] You: well, the grid is posted hmmm
[13:01] Brian Livingston: Heh, I have nothing prepared currently, but I can take a crack at it I suppose
[13:02] You: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1797
[13:02] You: and i can share with you guys
[13:02] Ulysse Alexandre: ty the the url
[13:02] You: a helpful template for a Gspreadsheet
[13:02] You: with multipliers, etc
[13:02] Ulysse Alexandre: but I will see that after because my Pc will not support to open that now
[13:03] You: if you like
[13:03] Rose Springvale: sure, more toys!
[13:03] Brian Livingston: woohoo
[13:04] You: ok guys
[13:04] You: so that's it
[13:04] Rose Springvale: looks good.
[13:04] You: i'll share the template (have to clean it up, lol) with you
[13:05] You: and you have the grid to sketch
[13:05] You: i can also send the original drawing if people prefer to sketch in pshop
[13:05] Rose Springvale contemplates her colored pencils
[13:05] Rose Springvale: i dont know how to sketch in pshop
[13:05] You: crayon is good too!
[13:06] Rose Springvale: can't erase crayon!
[13:06] You: in fact, i always start by a sketch by hand
[13:06] You: even mistakes are helpful sometimes
[13:07] Rose Springvale: okay, so .. meeting again in a week?
[13:07] You: yes
[13:07] Rose Springvale: or is this marathan too much lol
[13:07] You: thank you guys .)
[13:07] You: no lol
[13:07] Rose Springvale: moon, don't look at how long you've been doing CDS today!
[13:07] You: you guys have gave me some ideas too
[13:07] You: it's been great .)
[13:07] Rose Springvale: there is a possiblity
[13:08] Rose Springvale: that my park will becoem an entertainment place
[13:08] Rose Springvale: and if we build west
[13:08] Rose Springvale: they can add the adjacent lot
[13:08] Rose Springvale: and double capacity
[13:08] Rose Springvale: with greenspace
[13:08] You: possibly
[13:08] Rose Springvale: like i wanted to do in AM and NFS
[13:08] You: the CDS can decide to keep plots
[13:08] Ulysse Alexandre: that will be nice
[13:08] Rose Springvale: well, this is privat enterprise!
[13:09] You: it will all depend later on the pricing and how fast we preview we recover investment
[13:09] Brian Livingston: Cool
[13:09] You: oh!
[13:09] You: ehehehe you know that reservations are with Sudane .P
[13:09] Rose Springvale: so i'll chat with them about that possibility... then maybe propose an accomodationg draft
[13:09] Rose Springvale: :)
[13:09] Rose Springvale: i'll talk to her :)
[13:09] You: but i think we arrived at consensus here
[13:10] You: namely
[13:10] You: that this will NOT be a slum
[13:10] Rose Springvale: yes!!!
[13:10] Ulysse Alexandre: of course
[13:10] You: we'll make our best to make it as dignified a sim as any other CDS sim
[13:10] Rose Springvale: and will be more attractive than Suburra, which is what i was afraid we'd have
[13:10] Rose Springvale: just square lots
[13:10] You: one sec
[13:10] You: suddenly cold
[13:11] Rose Springvale: cold?
[13:11] You: it gets col in the venings here
[13:11] Rose Springvale: oh
[13:11] Rose Springvale: i thought you meant the ideas left you suddenly cold
[13:11] Rose Springvale: < writer
[13:11] You: so iwent to get my house coat
[13:12] You: ok guys are we adjourned?
[13:12] Ulysse Alexandre: the Sun is down
[13:12] Rose Springvale: if you have what you need Moon, yes
[13:12] You: i hesitate to leave this here... the prim pool is down to 400+ prims
[13:12] Rose Springvale: pick it up, its okay
[13:12] Ulysse Alexandre: ok for me too

Eudaimonia now!
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