RA Meeting 10 May 2008 - transcript

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Jamie Palisades
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RA Meeting 10 May 2008 - transcript

Post by Jamie Palisades »

See http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1856 for a non-normative (unofficial) index of the action items and main points from this meeting.
Transcript of 10 May 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
conducted at the Colonia Nova Praetorium
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= "You", below)
Topic separators "----" inserted to separate agenda items

[2008/05/10 9:05] You: Howdy Danton
[2008/05/10 9:06] You: good morning
[2008/05/10 9:06] MT Lundquist: hi
[2008/05/10 9:07] Jamie Palisades stands quirtly in the New SL, Now With Extra Lag .... looks at chairs ... and waits for avs to rez so he does not sit on someone's lap ... again ...
[2008/05/10 9:07] You: Hi, Slightly Irrerevent
[2008/05/10 9:08] Danton Sideways: Hi Jamie, Hi Beathan, hi again TP
[2008/05/10 9:08] You: Let me send an IM or two - I expect Sonja, but Gwyn sent regrets
[2008/05/10 9:08] You: oop - that she os
[2008/05/10 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja is online
[2008/05/10 9:08] Sonja Strom: hi everybody
[2008/05/10 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: gwyen is regrettable
[2008/05/10 9:08] You: BV, you're able to stay?
[2008/05/10 9:08] You: You walking double entrendre you Prin
[2008/05/10 9:09] Sorry... busy...
[2008/05/10 9:09] Beathan Vale: yes -- I did not make it to my seminar
[2008/05/10 9:09] Danton Sideways: Hi Sonja
[2008/05/10 9:09] Moon Adamant: hello everyone
[2008/05/10 9:09] Sonja Strom: :-)
[2008/05/10 9:09] Sonja Strom: Hi Moon
[2008/05/10 9:10] Danton Sideways: Wow TP is levitating
[2008/05/10 9:10] You: Good morning all. Hi Moon. We're quorate. Shall we start?
[2008/05/10 9:10] MT Lundquist: hi all again
[2008/05/10 9:10] Sonja Strom: I'm having trouble getting things to rez.
[2008/05/10 9:10] MT Lundquist: sorry just eating rl
[2008/05/10 9:10] Sonja Strom: but I can talk
[2008/05/10 9:10] ThePrincess Parisi: its the incredible lightness i behold
[2008/05/10 9:10] You: :) take your time Sonja
[2008/05/10 9:10] Moon Adamant: you're slowly rezzing to me Sonja
[2008/05/10 9:11] Danton Sideways: a visual pun
[2008/05/10 9:11] You: :) OK, let;s call to order.
[2008/05/10 9:11] You: Agenda is posted at - http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1849
[2008/05/10 9:11] You: Welcome all.
[2008/05/10 9:11] You: 1a
[2008/05/10 9:12] You: Would every one please assent to recording this session. I assent.
[2008/05/10 9:12] Sonja Strom: I assent
[2008/05/10 9:12] Danton Sideways: I assent
[2008/05/10 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i assent but i cant see beathan
[2008/05/10 9:12] Beathan Vale: I assent
[2008/05/10 9:12] Moon Adamant: i assent
[2008/05/10 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: are u next to rose beathan
[2008/05/10 9:12] Beathan Vale: no one want to see me anytway
[2008/05/10 9:13] You: :)
[2008/05/10 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: i do now
[2008/05/10 9:13] You: Will need recording assents from, I think, Moon, MT, and if they speak here Danton and Rose & Symo .. let's go on
[2008/05/10 9:13] You: 1c
[2008/05/10 9:13] MT Lundquist: assent
[2008/05/10 9:14] Rose Springvale: assent, but have no need to speak
[2008/05/10 9:14] You: Anyone here who is not an RA memebr who especially wants to spaek to today's agenda?
[2008/05/10 9:14] Jamie Palisades looks around
[2008/05/10 9:14] You: OK then
[2008/05/10 9:14] You: 1d
[2008/05/10 9:15] You: Routine notice - please read the posted transcript, let us know if anythings's wrong :)
[2008/05/10 9:15] You: 1e - future times
[2008/05/10 9:15] Danton Sideways: Nothing wrong but
[2008/05/10 9:15] You: ...? Danton
[2008/05/10 9:15] Danton Sideways: the transcript took a long time to be posted
[2008/05/10 9:15] Jamie Palisades grins I agree, and thanks- See agenda item 2, let's discuss it there
[2008/05/10 9:16] You: 1e -
[2008/05/10 9:16] Danton Sideways: ok
[2008/05/10 9:16] You: we're settled on this tinme slot for now, so I can remove this routine agenda item I think
[2008/05/10 9:16] You: I do want us to go to biweekly (sigh) and will raise that as soon as our backlog seems under control (grin)
[2008/05/10 9:16] You: 1f
[2008/05/10 9:17] You: Consent items - meaning, under our rules, quick noncontroversial stuff that requires no debate
[2008/05/10 9:17] You: I actually have some today :)
[2008/05/10 9:17] You: Welcome, Questor, open meeting, have a seat, but let uis know if you wish to speak please, under our rules of order
[2008/05/10 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: well is the fact that i dont get money from the chancellor one of those and how do i get the money for the guided tour
[2008/05/10 9:18] Quaestor Hax: TY
[2008/05/10 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: hes saying things like : oh yes you will get your money!
[2008/05/10 9:18] You: :) first item is budget issues
[2008/05/10 9:18] You: I have a bit of a report and suggestionm there
[2008/05/10 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: but i havent i mean i think i dont care who owns it i just want that thing done
[2008/05/10 9:18] You: first, let me mention to Prin that she will get communication about that reimbursement requiuest today.
[2008/05/10 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: but im not paying for it out of my pocket just cos of principlel
[2008/05/10 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/05/10 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi waves at Q
[2008/05/10 9:19] You: Second, let me point out that the general issue of budget changes and how to get paid/reimb'd is .. a little too informal, to my view :D
[2008/05/10 9:19] You: so
[2008/05/10 9:19] You: I've asked our treasurer Sudane to do two things for us
[2008/05/10 9:20] You: one is to work on a slightly more transparent and predictable communication and tracking format for those paymebts - and -
[2008/05/10 9:20] You: I think it's going to involve Google Docs and be announced shortly
[2008/05/10 9:21] You: that requires no RA action - but this second point does -
[2008/05/10 9:21] You: I would like Sudane to come and make a presentation to the RA on budgeting process
[2008/05/10 9:21] You: both where we are, and how we operate and change it
[2008/05/10 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: may i suggest the chancellor attend?
[2008/05/10 9:21] You: she's happy to do so
[2008/05/10 9:22] You: and we should set a date *in advance* so we know RA members can attend, and others (as Prin points out wisely) might like to hear it too
[2008/05/10 9:22] You: so : How do the next four Saturdays look for you lot? Can we pick one, say at least 2 weeks away, and "put a stake in the ground"?
[2008/05/10 9:23] You: I think we ought to try and do it when everyone;s avail. And Moon, if you have access to your colleague Gwyn's schedule, her availability would matter too
[2008/05/10 9:23] You: Ideally we should have two dates, then make sure Su and Alexi also can attend
[2008/05/10 9:23] Jamie Palisades looks at calendar
[2008/05/10 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: and mostly the chancellor please more than us even
[2008/05/10 9:23] Jamie Palisades grins
[2008/05/10 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: mt and i are available both days
[2008/05/10 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: all four
[2008/05/10 9:23] Moon Adamant: well, Gwyn's schedule is always a bit full
[2008/05/10 9:24] Moon Adamant: but i'll tell her to talk to you directly Jamie
[2008/05/10 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: wiat next weekend isnt good sorry
[2008/05/10 9:24] Moon Adamant: as said, i do not control other people's time
[2008/05/10 9:24] You: hm ladies & gents, what would you say to ... 24 May and 31 May as our target dates
[2008/05/10 9:24] You: I understand Moon, just thought I;d ask as a courtesy :)
[2008/05/10 9:25] You: anyone know they have conflicts on the 24th or 31st?
[2008/05/10 9:25] Sonja Strom: let me get my calendar - right back
[2008/05/10 9:25] Beathan Vale: I don't know yet
[2008/05/10 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: those are good to us
[2008/05/10 9:25] You: I suggest we move on to the 2nd consentitem while others look.
[2008/05/10 9:26] You: (and thx Sonja, BV - hey I hope us to reduce meeting load shortly, which I hope will help.)
[2008/05/10 9:26] You: 2d item
[2008/05/10 9:26] You: We need a regular plan for the Chancellor to report to us
[2008/05/10 9:26] ThePrincess Parisi: its a constituitional requirement
[2008/05/10 9:26] ThePrincess Parisi: that he do so
[2008/05/10 9:26] You: Indeed
[2008/05/10 9:26] You: :)
[2008/05/10 9:26] Sonja Strom: I don't have any conflicts on the 24th or 31st.
[2008/05/10 9:27] You: I suggest we do this, and ask for your approval:
[2008/05/10 9:27] You: Alexi suggested to me that he routinely come to the last meeting ecah calendar month.
[2008/05/10 9:27] You: SO I would like us to adopt a resolution accepting and requesting that he do so, and I will reference the dates and times
[2008/05/10 9:28] You: :) this will give us a basis for further conversation, if he proves unable to join us
[2008/05/10 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: yes .. second
[2008/05/10 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: hear hear
[2008/05/10 9:28] You: :) any objections? Is that generally acceptable?
[2008/05/10 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: that sounds great
[2008/05/10 9:29] Jamie Palisades hears no objection ...
[2008/05/10 9:29] Sonja Strom: sounds good.
[2008/05/10 9:29] You: OK, passes w/o dissent. Thx. I will post it to the forums and msg Alexicon.
[2008/05/10 9:29] You: and in lieu of any objection, let's ask Su and Alexi for the 24th or 31st for that budget chat
[2008/05/10 9:29] You: I will do so and report back to you
[2008/05/10 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: yes that sounds good
[2008/05/10 9:30] You: next item
[2008/05/10 9:30] You: 2
[2008/05/10 9:30] You: :)_ Danton's telepathic
[2008/05/10 9:30] You: Your LRA thinks he needs help, ladies and gentlemen
[2008/05/10 9:30] You: so
[2008/05/10 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: im here
[2008/05/10 9:30] You: I raise the following issue,m which we had discussed before briefly but never really sorted out
[2008/05/10 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi throws a handcuff at beathan
[2008/05/10 9:31] You: -- do I/we need a secretary/scribe, and do I/we need a parlimentarian?
[2008/05/10 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: that would be nice yes
[2008/05/10 9:31] Danton Sideways: How do I ask for permission to speak on this?
[2008/05/10 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: just did
[2008/05/10 9:31] You: I have been bootlegging this LRA thing so far, grin
[2008/05/10 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: and well
[2008/05/10 9:32] Jamie Palisades grins, yes, Danton you did, and thanks. Go ahead please
[2008/05/10 9:32] Danton Sideways: Just to say that I checked again, and the transcripts still seem to missing from the forum?
[2008/05/10 9:32] Danton Sideways: *for last week?
[2008/05/10 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: they are on the wiki? no?
[2008/05/10 9:32] You: hm thx - which ones? I put everythign I have into the board 'RA announcements'
[2008/05/10 9:33] You: I have *never* got write permission to the wiki .. sigh .. it;s not an officially ownred resource
[2008/05/10 9:33] Rose Springvale raises hand
[2008/05/10 9:33] You: Danton, you had more? if not, then Rose is next
[2008/05/10 9:33] Danton Sideways: Ok I looked at the wrong category sorry
[2008/05/10 9:33] You: np :) but I HAVE been slow on that Danton. Rose?
[2008/05/10 9:34] Rose Springvale: i just wanted to share a tool that Gwyn shared with me a long time ago, just posted the transcript of my last meeting, which ended half an hour ago
[2008/05/10 9:34] Rose Springvale: http://gwynethllewelyn.net/colour-code/
[2008/05/10 9:34] You: Love to have it, thanks.
[2008/05/10 9:34] Rose Springvale: it takes all the junk out of the transcript for you
[2008/05/10 9:34] You: That was a Guild group, I gather? Thanks for that
[2008/05/10 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: FR
[2008/05/10 9:35] Rose Springvale: just copy your log, then paste into the box, and then the copy is ready to post
[2008/05/10 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: i got the monkey
[2008/05/10 9:35] Rose Springvale: yes, a sub committee meeting
[2008/05/10 9:35] MT Lundquist: hi fr
[2008/05/10 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: hehe
[2008/05/10 9:35] Sonja Strom: hi FR
[2008/05/10 9:35] Flyingroc Chung: hi, sorry for being late
[2008/05/10 9:35] Danton Sideways: Hey tweeter
[2008/05/10 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: no naked dancing then for you
[2008/05/10 9:35] You: Morning Roc, please assent to recording, agenda's in the usual forum place
[2008/05/10 9:35] You: Thanks Rose I will explore that
[2008/05/10 9:35] You: but
[2008/05/10 9:35] You: back to my point
[2008/05/10 9:35] Rose Springvale: :)
[2008/05/10 9:35] You: 'I think LRA needs some help'
[2008/05/10 9:36] Flyingroc Chung: I assent to recording
[2008/05/10 9:36] You: always - but at least in my case :)
[2008/05/10 9:36] You: so
[2008/05/10 9:36] You: three things
[2008/05/10 9:36] You: 1. should I just use the Rose/Gwyn device for a few weeks, and we will see if transcript posting speeds up? or is there other action to be taken about that?
[2008/05/10 9:37] You: if I hear nothing, we'll just proceed that way for now
[2008/05/10 9:37] Moon Adamant: /m e raises her hand
[2008/05/10 9:37] You: ...please, Moon
[2008/05/10 9:37] You: :)
[2008/05/10 9:37] Moon Adamant: why doesn't the RA create a Secretary role?
[2008/05/10 9:37] Moon Adamant: that takes note of motions and votes?
[2008/05/10 9:37] Flyingroc Chung: there is supposed to be an RA Arcivist
[2008/05/10 9:37] Moon Adamant: it can even circle between the REps
[2008/05/10 9:38] Moon Adamant: yes, FR, i know
[2008/05/10 9:38] Moon Adamant: but i am not sure if that role was ever filled
[2008/05/10 9:38] You: Fair question. what do you lot think? Would one - or all - of you be willing to do this? Or shall we put that Q on the table and wait a bit and see?
[2008/05/10 9:38] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont think thats a good idea
[2008/05/10 9:39] Rose Springvale raises hand
[2008/05/10 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: nope.. i dont think anyone knows how difficult it is to REALLY be active in RA and i cannot imagine us being responsible for that and doing our duty at the same time
[2008/05/10 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: when things go fast .. in debates
[2008/05/10 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: no i dont think one of us can do that i cant and i dont think MT can ..
[2008/05/10 9:39] Moon Adamant: i dunno why Princess
[2008/05/10 9:39] You: hmm - I suggest we talk more a bit about it offline in groups and then come back to it. Not going to resolve it quickly today it seems.
[2008/05/10 9:39] Moon Adamant: that's how we do it at The Guild
[2008/05/10 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: well you arent me .. the guild is not the RA
[2008/05/10 9:39] You: Rose had more? Any other last words on tis for now?
[2008/05/10 9:39] Moon Adamant: who has agendas as big as RA's
[2008/05/10 9:39] Rose Springvale: yes
[2008/05/10 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: its much more quick......
[2008/05/10 9:39] Rose Springvale: it is very easy to turn on chat log
[2008/05/10 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: have you been in RA its nto the same as guild
[2008/05/10 9:40] Rose Springvale: adn participate fully
[2008/05/10 9:40] Jamie Palisades smiles and listens .. for about 2 more minutes
[2008/05/10 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: but stopping to d that
[2008/05/10 9:40] Rose Springvale: so anyone can do it, then take a few minutes afterward to clean and post
[2008/05/10 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont think its for the guild to tell ME how do to this, shut up rose and moon
[2008/05/10 9:40] Moon Adamant: For your information Princess, i was already a Rep in this RA .)
[2008/05/10 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: shut up moon
[2008/05/10 9:40] Rose Springvale: excuse me, i thought i had the floor
[2008/05/10 9:40] Moon Adamant: kindly speak to me in a polite manner
[2008/05/10 9:40] Quaestor Hax: /eeps
[2008/05/10 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: no i wont til you act nice too you fool
[2008/05/10 9:41] Moon Adamant: i call thye present to witness what is being said
[2008/05/10 9:41] You: ahem
[2008/05/10 9:41] Rose Springvale: sigh
[2008/05/10 9:41] Beathan Vale: ::sigh::
[2008/05/10 9:41] You: Prin, 'shut up's not part of our usual manner of keeping order here
[2008/05/10 9:41] Rose Springvale: she's gone
[2008/05/10 9:41] You: May I ask that Moon finish uninterrupted for 30 secs, then Prin, then Rose, then let's move on
[2008/05/10 9:42] You: she can come back if she likes :) no one has ejected anyone
[2008/05/10 9:42] Moon Adamant: i apologize to the assembled RA
[2008/05/10 9:42] Moon Adamant: i was suggesting a process we use at the Guild which is most efficient
[2008/05/10 9:42] Moon Adamant: but of course, the RA is sovereign to decide their procedures
[2008/05/10 9:42] Moon Adamant: done
[2008/05/10 9:42] You: thx
[2008/05/10 9:43] You: Prin's absent for themoment. Rose? More?
[2008/05/10 9:43] Rose Springvale: i was finished .. just suggesting its easy to turn on chat log for a meeting. doesn't take any time from participation
[2008/05/10 9:43] You: thx. next item
[2008/05/10 9:43] You: We're a little behind, as always, and I have further aggravated this by accidentally reversing agenda items 2 and 4. I suggest we finish off 4 (this one) then go to 2.
[2008/05/10 9:44] You: all that's left here is parliamentarian. Here is my take:
[2008/05/10 9:45] You: I think I need someone to keep an eye on the rules. I think it would need to be someone who can speak at meetings here, and may or may not be an RA member, so I plan to bring a bill to permit that. But such a person would not vote, make motions, etc. (if not an RA member).
[2008/05/10 9:45] You: So .. :) proposed bill coming. Any comment?
[2008/05/10 9:45] You: (And no I do not have a recruit yet)
[2008/05/10 9:45] Beathan Vale: have you asked Justice?
[2008/05/10 9:45] You: Well, BV, he is an SC member.
[2008/05/10 9:46] You: Turns out he did not resign - as Prin and I discovered yestreday
[2008/05/10 9:46] MT Lundquist: so the parliamentarian could keep the minutes as just discussed
[2008/05/10 9:46] You: that's also possible
[2008/05/10 9:46] You: just wanted to run it by you folks first for any reactions
[2008/05/10 9:46] Jamie Palisades looks around
[2008/05/10 9:46] You: ready for next item?
[2008/05/10 9:46] You: back to the agenda order :) sigh
[2008/05/10 9:47] Justice Soothsayer: ave, citizens, and I consent to recording.
[2008/05/10 9:47] You: Hello Justice, please assent to being recorded, welcome.
[2008/05/10 9:47] Flyingroc Chung: is there anyone who is not RA willing to actuallydo it?
[2008/05/10 9:47] You: 2
[2008/05/10 9:47] You: FR: maybe, but I can't recruit into an undefined task
[2008/05/10 9:47] You: 2
[2008/05/10 9:47] You: SC nominations
[2008/05/10 9:47] You: here's the URL from our agenda:
[2008/05/10 9:48] You: http://forums.slcds.info//viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1848
[2008/05/10 9:48] You: SC nominates new member of the SC, and RA confirms them.
[2008/05/10 9:48] You: Let me mention several things just for our records and common understanding
[2008/05/10 9:49] You: - we were informed recently that Gwyneth resigned SC when she became an RA candidate.
[2008/05/10 9:49] You: So they've lost one
[2008/05/10 9:49] You: - we also were informed recently that Justice did not - and he's here BTW - so he's still on the SC.
[2008/05/10 9:49] You: and finally
[2008/05/10 9:49] MT Lundquist: didnt justice resign too
[2008/05/10 9:49] Justice Soothsayer: No, Justice never resigned.
[2008/05/10 9:50] Justice Soothsayer: Justice promised to resign from SC if elected to the RA.
[2008/05/10 9:50] MT Lundquist: oh i thought you did
[2008/05/10 9:50] Justice Soothsayer: But, sadly, I was not elected. ;)
[2008/05/10 9:50] Jamie Palisades thinks that's a good topic for discussion ... when we get to conflicts of interest
[2008/05/10 9:50] You: so
[2008/05/10 9:50] You: for now
[2008/05/10 9:50] You: we have two appointments to approve
[2008/05/10 9:50] You: Cindy Ecksol and Dnate Mars
[2008/05/10 9:50] MT Lundquist: wb
[2008/05/10 9:51] You: :) and I have a suggestion
[2008/05/10 9:51] You: which I suspect will annoy some
[2008/05/10 9:51] You: I do not see either candidate here
[2008/05/10 9:51] Beathan Vale: preparing to be annoyed
[2008/05/10 9:51] You: I suggets we invite them to cme speak with us, and decline to act until they do
[2008/05/10 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: agreed
[2008/05/10 9:51] Beathan Vale: I am annoyed
[2008/05/10 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: am very happy
[2008/05/10 9:51] Beathan Vale: I see no reason for that -- we know them both -- why delay?
[2008/05/10 9:52] Flyingroc Chung: Hm
[2008/05/10 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: because we dont know thier motives
[2008/05/10 9:52] Flyingroc Chung: I had to come to the RA when I became SC
[2008/05/10 9:52] Beathan Vale: motives for wanting to take an active part in our community through the SC?
[2008/05/10 9:52] Beathan Vale: OK -- FR --
[2008/05/10 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: indded FR we deserve that at least i am annoyed at beathan for his annoyance
[2008/05/10 9:52] Beathan Vale: lol
[2008/05/10 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: jk
[2008/05/10 9:52] Beathan Vale: fine -- let's hold hearings
[2008/05/10 9:52] MT Lundquist: who can i be annoyed at
[2008/05/10 9:53] You: :) I am aware of no defect in either one
[2008/05/10 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: me usually
[2008/05/10 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: cindy has lots of defects
[2008/05/10 9:53] Flyingroc Chung: the SC agenda isn't all that packed.
[2008/05/10 9:53] Beathan Vale: well -- Dnate is blue - is that a defect?
[2008/05/10 9:53] You: and I caution you that our laws limit the reasons why we would approve or disapprove
[2008/05/10 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: yes dnate is blue and that is true, he was one time little red riding hood too
[2008/05/10 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: that concrrns me greatly
[2008/05/10 9:53] You: but I think a short comment from each before we vote would lbe reasonable :)
[2008/05/10 9:54] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/05/10 9:54] You: well, no, being blue is a lifesstyle choice ...
[2008/05/10 9:54] Beathan Vale: yes
[2008/05/10 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: he carried a bastket throught the woods dressed as a little girl
[2008/05/10 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: to entice wolves
[2008/05/10 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: its true
[2008/05/10 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: and now blue anad and again
[2008/05/10 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: blue red blue
[2008/05/10 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: itrs true
[2008/05/10 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: id like to hear his explaination
[2008/05/10 9:55] You: would anyone like to move the approval of the candidates now? or shall I invited them to next week?
[2008/05/10 9:56] Beathan Vale: next week is fine
[2008/05/10 9:56] MT Lundquist: next week so we can hear them speak
[2008/05/10 9:56] ThePrincess Parisi: rose can make a nice invitation
[2008/05/10 9:56] You: and can I ask Justice , as an SC member, if he sees any issues with that approach?
[2008/05/10 9:56] ThePrincess Parisi: personally i dont see why we care what they think
[2008/05/10 9:56] You: No, Prin, sadly, CDS hounded Rose out of office, so we no longer can use her skills :)
[2008/05/10 9:56] ThePrincess Parisi: darn!
[2008/05/10 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: she was hounded.. lmao?
[2008/05/10 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: what a lie mr. LRA
[2008/05/10 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: she quit and alexicon asked her to be PIO and she said no
[2008/05/10 9:57] You: Justice? Any comments? Heh - on our approval plan
[2008/05/10 9:57] You: ahem - let's leave it, hm TP?
[2008/05/10 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: and now insits on being a bitch
[2008/05/10 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: yes sir
[2008/05/10 9:57] Justice Soothsayer: no, no comments at this time,
[2008/05/10 9:58] You: 'bitch'? OK. I am going to wait for Justice to offer any remarks, or decline, and thenfeal with that.
[2008/05/10 9:58] You: Ok thx Justice.
[2008/05/10 9:58] You: ThePrincess, I ask you to retract that out of order remark - which has no place here, hm?
[2008/05/10 9:58] You: I don't see meanspirited namecalling as productive in the RA.
[2008/05/10 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: ok ill explain. that is a personal opinion of her behavior to me alone in the past few onths and it was uncalled for an inappropriate in this venue
[2008/05/10 9:58] Rose Springvale: its okay, i'll just go
[2008/05/10 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: i apologize
[2008/05/10 9:59] You: Thank you Prin. No need Rose, up to you, this is an open meeting.
[2008/05/10 9:59] You: Item closed.
[2008/05/10 9:59] You: next item
[2008/05/10 9:59] You: (oh, and yes, I'll send invites to Cindy and Dnate) for next week
[2008/05/10 10:00] You: 3
[2008/05/10 10:00] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/05/10 10:00] You: Commerce Commission

[continues in next post]

Last edited by Jamie Palisades on Fri May 30, 2008 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
== My Second Life home is CDS. Retired after three terms
== as chancellor of the oldest self-governing sims in SL.
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RA Meeting 10 May 2008 - transcript (part 2)

Post by Jamie Palisades »

[continued from prior post]

[2008/05/10 10:00] You: 3
[2008/05/10 10:00] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/05/10 10:00] You: Commerce Commission
[2008/05/10 10:00] You: Where are we, MT?
[2008/05/10 10:00] Danton Sideways: mumbles
[2008/05/10 10:00] MT Lundquist: the commerce commission report has been posted for sometime now
[2008/05/10 10:00] You: OK, but are we ready to act?
[2008/05/10 10:00] MT Lundquist: it represents the collective views of the citizens of many factions who attended the meetings
[2008/05/10 10:01] MT Lundquist: i stress it is not only my view or that of NuCARE
[2008/05/10 10:01] MT Lundquist: rather of the citizens
[2008/05/10 10:01] MT Lundquist: there are I know some contriversial elements that need to be discussed at RA
[2008/05/10 10:01] MT Lundquist: I hand it over for that discussion
[2008/05/10 10:02] You: Let me ask two process questions. First, is this a constitutional issue?
[2008/05/10 10:02] You: I ask because it affects the voting, etc.
[2008/05/10 10:02] MT Lundquist: no i dont think so
[2008/05/10 10:03] You: OK - though I could imagine us getting into that in the context of taking property
[2008/05/10 10:03] MT Lundquist: and maybe the elements should be considered seperately
[2008/05/10 10:03] You: which is my second Q :)
[2008/05/10 10:03] You: Hello WIdget, welcome, this is an open meeting, but we have rules of order, so let me know if you wish to speak please/.
[2008/05/10 10:03] Widget Whiteberry: thank you Jamie, thank you every one
[2008/05/10 10:04] You: Q2: have the disagreements about whether the plan to take some private property been sorted out? I know there's disagreement. I just wonder: is this the right time to work on those here? (If so, great.)
[2008/05/10 10:04] MT Lundquist: i would suggest we discuss it as it was proposed by some
[2008/05/10 10:05] Beathan Vale: I am opposed to the taking provision -- the bill is generally fine -- but I know that a majority of citizens do not like the taking provision
[2008/05/10 10:05] MT Lundquist: and it was a point for consideration in Pats bill
[2008/05/10 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: well i have a qustion .. what do you propose we do about people who do not comply with the convenent
[2008/05/10 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: covenent
[2008/05/10 10:05] You: OK. Thanks. Hm. Just for reference, MT, this is still your current bill, yes: -- http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1611
[2008/05/10 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: its as simple as there is a covenent and if its not complied with........what do we do as a community?
[2008/05/10 10:06] MT Lundquist: just checking
[2008/05/10 10:06] Beathan Vale: TP -- I have proposed a tier rent process --charge double rent for lack of compliance
[2008/05/10 10:06] Danton Sideways: I request to speak when appropriate
[2008/05/10 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: how does that help anything
[2008/05/10 10:06] MT Lundquist: it was Pats bill i headed the commision
[2008/05/10 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: they just pay ten dollars not five
[2008/05/10 10:06] MT Lundquist: but yes thats it
[2008/05/10 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: the bill came from your party Danton
[2008/05/10 10:07] ThePrincess Parisi: beathan that is not a remedy we dont need five dollars we need a sim that is vibrant
[2008/05/10 10:07] You: We "can" do a number of things if we choose - including penalty rent as BV says - and zoning enforcement - and imposing special requirements on any new buyers when land opens up
[2008/05/10 10:07] Beathan Vale: stripping a citizen of property is never acceptable -- esepcially as voting rights aer linked to prop ownership -- the bill will not pass SC muster as is -- it is unconstitutional
[2008/05/10 10:07] ThePrincess Parisi: comepletely unacceptable response sir
[2008/05/10 10:07] You: hmmm let's have a speaking queue, hm?
[2008/05/10 10:07] ThePrincess Parisi: so how do we act if a covenent is not met
[2008/05/10 10:08] Danton Sideways: er hem
[2008/05/10 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: what do we do a bout other covenent issues
[2008/05/10 10:08] You: I suggest we take turns and limit to 2 minutes for now
[2008/05/10 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: oh gosh jamie
[2008/05/10 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: let us talk ffs
[2008/05/10 10:08] You: Prin, you first
[2008/05/10 10:08] Beathan Vale: TP -- iRL there are penalties and fines -- not confiscation of property -- why not here
[2008/05/10 10:08] You: :)
[2008/05/10 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: you cant talk that way its a back and forth thing conversation
[2008/05/10 10:08] You: I agree Prin - WHEN people aren't all stepping on each other's words, grin
[2008/05/10 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: no thats not true eventually you lose the proerty ..and NO one ever said TAKE it they said trade
[2008/05/10 10:08] You: did you have more comments, just yet?
[2008/05/10 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: if a person wants residential property use, then give them that
[2008/05/10 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i do
[2008/05/10 10:09] Beathan Vale: TP -- no you only lose the property if you don't pay the fines -- I do this stuff for al iving
[2008/05/10 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: if i buy commericial land and treat it as prim land or residentilal, then lets trade them for what they use it for
[2008/05/10 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: i know " BEATHAN IS A LAWYER"
[2008/05/10 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: well beathan i think this isnt rl
[2008/05/10 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: and we have a only a few lots in CDS
[2008/05/10 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: and some are commercial and they need to be used as such
[2008/05/10 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: if someone buys it and dosent
[2008/05/10 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: then give them what they use if ofot
[2008/05/10 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: it for
[2008/05/10 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: or get rid of our covenents and call it mainland
[2008/05/10 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: and then we take what we get
[2008/05/10 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: done
[2008/05/10 10:10] Jamie Palisades smiles quietly, noting the current RA rules of order which provide for time limits and speaker rotation, thanks ThePrincess for her comments and looks next to MT, then expecting to ask Beathan and Danton ...
[2008/05/10 10:10] You: More for now, MT?
[2008/05/10 10:11] MT Lundquist: ok well i propose that we deal with each recommendation in turn
[2008/05/10 10:11] MT Lundquist: we have started at the end
[2008/05/10 10:11] MT Lundquist: Propose that the RA form a Chamber of Commerce for CDS. That this Chamber be made up of volunteer members from those holding and using for commercial purposes commercial land in CDS. That the leader of the Chamber of Commerce be elected by the members of the Chamber of Commerce every six months. That the Chamber of Commerce:
[2008/05/10 10:11] MT Lundquist: is the first recommendation
[2008/05/10 10:11] Jamie Palisades thinks that is a great idea - and suspects that BV's and Danton's concerns will be dealt with in turn if we proceed that way. Can we ask MT to take us through it section by section?
[2008/05/10 10:11] MT Lundquist: this would be to promote commerce
[2008/05/10 10:12] Beathan Vale: second
[2008/05/10 10:12] ThePrincess Parisi: good idea
[2008/05/10 10:12] MT Lundquist: 1) supports the business community and advocates for its members by creating a strong local economy. Supporting the existing shop owners (by having the CDS launch promotional events and do some advertising; 2) promotes the community. Attracting new content creators willing to open a shop in the CDS; sponsoring events to attract customers; weekly social event shop promotion/events 3) provides networking opportunities. Financing a promotional campaign grid-wide to let the SL residents know that the CDS is a shopping destination for high quality products (and services). 4) represents the interests of business with government; 5) supports business-friendly ballot measures and evaluates candidates for public office.
[2008/05/10 10:12] MT Lundquist: that would be the job description of the chamber as such
[2008/05/10 10:12] Flyingroc Chung: how does this relate to the old chamber of commerce
[2008/05/10 10:12] Flyingroc Chung: ?
[2008/05/10 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: it was called something else
[2008/05/10 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: pat did it and let it flounder
[2008/05/10 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: from what i heard
[2008/05/10 10:13] MT Lundquist: i propose that we use this for the future
[2008/05/10 10:13] Flyingroc Chung: http://www.aliasi.us/nburgwiki/tiki-ind ... ge=NL+4-14
[2008/05/10 10:13] MT Lundquist: endorsed by the ra
[2008/05/10 10:13] Jamie Palisades mutters: Merchant Assn or Merchant Guild I think
[2008/05/10 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: pat discussed it at the meeting .. he was there FR
[2008/05/10 10:14] Danton Sideways: I have a minor point of order here
[2008/05/10 10:14] Flyingroc Chung: Section 1: The Neualtenburg Chamber of Commerce (Chamber of Commerce) is an institution under the auspices of the Guild, which is chartered with the responsibility of maintaining a public registry of companies, their securities and obligations (the Register).
[2008/05/10 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: Pat was involved in the commerce commission meting a few of them
[2008/05/10 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: the guild? thats like the guild we have now? i dont understand
[2008/05/10 10:15] Moon Adamant: no, not the current Guild
[2008/05/10 10:15] MT Lundquist: well the chamber would have a slightly different remit to promote commerce
[2008/05/10 10:15] You: hmmm MT - where's the text that we actually would make a new bill that creates the CofC? Sorry, I may be just dim today. While you find that, I will go look & see what else we'd have to *repeal*
[2008/05/10 10:15] MT Lundquist: as noted above in chat
[2008/05/10 10:15] Beathan Vale: FR - this brings it back into existence on terms that make more sense in our current structure
[2008/05/10 10:15] Danton Sideways: Please LRA I have a point of order
[2008/05/10 10:15] MT Lundquist: if the ra wants to progress this then i can create a bill if not i can drop it
[2008/05/10 10:16] You: Hang on a sec all, please :)
[2008/05/10 10:16] You: Danton, did you have a pertinent question?
[2008/05/10 10:16] Danton Sideways: The recognized speakers were beathen then myself
[2008/05/10 10:16] Danton Sideways: *recognized
[2008/05/10 10:17] Flyingroc Chung: yay process
[2008/05/10 10:17] Beathan Vale: I favor considering this bill in parts -- but I will vote any on any form of confiscation of citizen property -- it is susceptivle to manipulation (which would take people off the voter roles pprior to an election) and is just plain wrong
[2008/05/10 10:18] You: I acknowledge this, and we do get a litle informal sometimes, but in the interests of productive progress, I hope. Hadn't forgotton, and I think that last thread exhasuted itself. This is a good time for your comments, Danton, but note that we're talking at the moment about the Cof C part and *not* the property-taking part. That's how we decided to approach this item :)
[2008/05/10 10:18] Beathan Vale: there are alternatives -- as as long as there is any alternative, even if perceived as ":inadequate" -0 it is a better alternative that public theft of private property
[2008/05/10 10:18] Beathan Vale: done
[2008/05/10 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: hello!
[2008/05/10 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: one can remain a citizen if they leave cds with no land hun
[2008/05/10 10:18] You: BV, IF we are going to take about taking, it;s Danton's turn, grin
[2008/05/10 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: its a totally invalid point
[2008/05/10 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: one can stay a citizen without land
[2008/05/10 10:19] Beathan Vale: TP -- no that is not true
[2008/05/10 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry.. did i speak out of turn
[2008/05/10 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: that is too true
[2008/05/10 10:19] Danton Sideways: Well I just want to speak briefly especially because I have to leave in 10 minutes
[2008/05/10 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: we passed the law during your term
[2008/05/10 10:19] Jamie Palisades notes that apparently the desire to talk about property taking is overwhelmibng MT's suggestion to go one item at a time -- everyone OK with that?
[2008/05/10 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: we can leave our land and pay 100l a month
[2008/05/10 10:19] You: and *please*, Danton has a time limit and came to us to speak, let's let him. Please do, Danton.
[2008/05/10 10:19] You: ...
[2008/05/10 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: and stay a citizen
[2008/05/10 10:19] Flyingroc Chung: just jump in danton, if you dont interrupt you wont be able to say anything :-)
[2008/05/10 10:19] MT Lundquist: i would rather do it one at a time as the first is less contraversial
[2008/05/10 10:19] You: ...
[2008/05/10 10:20] Danton Sideways: Ok I have two issues for which I am personally a case study
[2008/05/10 10:20] Danton Sideways: One is that my house is in Colonia Nova commercial area
[2008/05/10 10:20] Danton Sideways: the other is that I want to use my shop for non-profit activities
[2008/05/10 10:20] Moon Adamant raises her hand
[2008/05/10 10:21] Danton Sideways: I think the second issue is more critical
[2008/05/10 10:21] You: (Danton has the floor - noting Moon next)
[2008/05/10 10:21] MT Lundquist: they both need to be discussed
[2008/05/10 10:21] Danton Sideways: I can always relocate my house, but I would rather ask for an exemption or something :)
[2008/05/10 10:21] Danton Sideways: but I am determined to use my shop for non-profit purposes
[2008/05/10 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi whispers you wont need to cos that is considered business
[2008/05/10 10:21] Danton Sideways: Finished
[2008/05/10 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: so dont worry danton
[2008/05/10 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: we are concerened with empty lots
[2008/05/10 10:22] You: Prin? Moon's next
[2008/05/10 10:22] Moon Adamant: if i may....
[2008/05/10 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: well i wanted him to know he needent worry
[2008/05/10 10:23] Moon Adamant: If i recall correctly, the city of Colonia Nova accumulates residential with commercial function
[2008/05/10 10:23] Moon Adamant: meaning, you can have shops or houses
[2008/05/10 10:23] Moon Adamant: insulae*
[2008/05/10 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: yes moon not many lots are stricktly commercial and i think dantons isnt ieven im not sure
[2008/05/10 10:23] Beathan Vale: yes -- my house is so zoned
[2008/05/10 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: i think only the lots right on the forum is only commerical
[2008/05/10 10:23] Moon Adamant: i believe only Stalls are strictly commercial
[2008/05/10 10:23] You: um, is Moon done?
[2008/05/10 10:23] Moon Adamant: but it's a question to read teh covenant
[2008/05/10 10:23] Moon Adamant: yes
[2008/05/10 10:23] You: thx for that
[2008/05/10 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: correct moon she makes a good point
[2008/05/10 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: and one ive told danton twice
[2008/05/10 10:24] You: we seem to be on the last, most controversial topic, in spite of MT's efforts and mine, grin
[2008/05/10 10:24] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/05/10 10:24] MT Lundquist: :)
[2008/05/10 10:24] You: shall we stay with it anyway, then?
[2008/05/10 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: im having a bad day sorry
[2008/05/10 10:24] You: NP
[2008/05/10 10:24] MT Lundquist: ok then go back please
[2008/05/10 10:24] You: so
[2008/05/10 10:24] Beathan Vale: let's vote on this last topic first
[2008/05/10 10:24] You: hmmmmm
[2008/05/10 10:24] Beathan Vale: if it fails, MT may want to revise the bill
[2008/05/10 10:25] MT Lundquist: It was felt important that a definition of commercial activity be established before judging whether land is in commercial use. The following definition is suggested for adoption by the RA. Commerce is a division of trade or production which deals with the exchange of goods and services from producer to final consumer. It comprises the trading of something of economic such as goods, services, information or money between two or more entities.
[2008/05/10 10:25] You: well can MT summarize what *currently* happens under that last bit of the bill?
[2008/05/10 10:25] MT Lundquist: i'll copy the elements to chat
[2008/05/10 10:25] MT Lundquist: That commerce, as defined, must occur on the commercial lots on a weekly basis and be demonstratable on request to the Chamber of Commerce. That this be a level of traffic (as shown in 'about land') of a minumim of 3 (no campers). That if commercial activity as defined does not occur to the satisfaction of the Chamber of Commerce thatthe following remedies can be applied
[2008/05/10 10:25] MT Lundquist: That the commercial lot owner is to raise the traffic to the required level within a three week period; If the commercial criteria are not satisfied within the three week period the Chamber of Commerce can require the commercial lot owner to sell back the lot to the CDS government for market rate; The Chamber of Commerce is then required to sell the commercial lot to another commercial trader.
[2008/05/10 10:26] MT Lundquist: the traffic item was raised specifically by some citizens
[2008/05/10 10:26] Moon Adamant raises her hand
[2008/05/10 10:26] Danton Sideways: Goodbye everyone :)
[2008/05/10 10:26] You: When MT's done we will have questions
[2008/05/10 10:26] MT Lundquist: bye danton
[2008/05/10 10:26] You: Thanks for coming Danton
[2008/05/10 10:26] Moon Adamant nods
[2008/05/10 10:26] Sonja Strom: goodbye Danton :-)
[2008/05/10 10:26] Widget Whiteberry: Good bye, Danton
[2008/05/10 10:26] Moon Adamant: bye Danton :)
[2008/05/10 10:27] MT Lundquist: thats the recommendation
[2008/05/10 10:27] You: ...
[2008/05/10 10:27] You: Summarizing: MT has a planned motion, in the form set out in chat text above, to create a definition of commercial activity AND a way to adjudicate it (CoC) AND a penalty for failing: noncomplying owner loses their lot, by forced sale back to CDS. Do I have that about right?
[2008/05/10 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: the penalty is not correct jamie
[2008/05/10 10:28] MT Lundquist: the coc can require
[2008/05/10 10:28] MT Lundquist: doesnt have to require
[2008/05/10 10:28] You: ahhh
[2008/05/10 10:28] You: got it
[2008/05/10 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: that needs to be reworded though
[2008/05/10 10:28] Beathan Vale: sounds like an excuse for arbitrary and capicious action
[2008/05/10 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: 1. they will NOT lose citizenship
[2008/05/10 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont like how its worded at all
[2008/05/10 10:29] Flyingroc Chung: I dont like giving the chamber of commerce the power to force the sale of of someone's land.
[2008/05/10 10:29] MT Lundquist: as i said if we want a bill i will reword as required by the RA discussion
[2008/05/10 10:29] You: I suggest we take it as a motion, get a second, then discuss, starting with the politely-waiting Moon
[2008/05/10 10:29] You: or it it too early for a motion MT?
[2008/05/10 10:29] You: *is
[2008/05/10 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont eithe rFR but there must some way to enforce the covenent what do you fine people suggest?
[2008/05/10 10:29] MT Lundquist: the idea was it to be for discussion at this stage
[2008/05/10 10:29] You: OK - NP then.
[2008/05/10 10:29] Beathan Vale: TP --doubling rent
[2008/05/10 10:30] You: I have the following people who apparently wish to speak ...
[2008/05/10 10:30] You: ...
[2008/05/10 10:30] You: ...
[2008/05/10 10:30] MT Lundquist: those items that the RA likes be taken forward and represented as a bill(s)
[2008/05/10 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: how does that help beathan it WILL not solve the problem
[2008/05/10 10:30] You: Moon, FR, Prin, BV
[2008/05/10 10:30] Moon Adamant raises hand
[2008/05/10 10:30] Moon Adamant: :)
[2008/05/10 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: someppl will just pay the extra they dont care its pennies
[2008/05/10 10:30] You: *sigh* Moon first please?
[2008/05/10 10:30] Beathan Vale: TP -- so let them
[2008/05/10 10:30] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/05/10 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: that doesnt solve the problem
[2008/05/10 10:30] Moon Adamant: my comment - or rather a question - is
[2008/05/10 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: chat lag sorry
[2008/05/10 10:31] Moon Adamant: what is being proposed is an Eminentt domain Bill that is placed in action by the Chamber of Commerce?
[2008/05/10 10:31] Moon Adamant: Eminent Domain*, sorry
[2008/05/10 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: no not really
[2008/05/10 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: not at all moon
[2008/05/10 10:31] MT Lundquist: I assume thats a USA law
[2008/05/10 10:31] Beathan Vale: Moon -- yes -- private organization can strip private property -- it's insane
[2008/05/10 10:31] Moon Adamant: if the Coc can remove land ownership
[2008/05/10 10:31] Moon Adamant: then it's Eminent Domain
[2008/05/10 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: no on esaid remove we said swap
[2008/05/10 10:32] Moon Adamant: doesn't that conflict with the functions of any of teh Gov Branches?
[2008/05/10 10:32] Flyingroc Chung: The proposed bill says "sale"
[2008/05/10 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: swap for the use they are setting out
[2008/05/10 10:32] Beathan Vale: Moon -- good point
[2008/05/10 10:32] Flyingroc Chung: "Chamber of Commerce can require the commercial lot owner to sell back the lot to the CDS government for market rate;"
[2008/05/10 10:32] Beathan Vale: FR -- it is a taking and resale --
[2008/05/10 10:32] Flyingroc Chung: It doesnt say swap
[2008/05/10 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: so how on earth do you solve the problem other than ...........your idea beathan which doesnt solve the problem?
[2008/05/10 10:33] Beathan Vale: FR -- that is how emininent domain in the US works -- forced sale to govt for market rate
[2008/05/10 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: someone say how to make ppl follow the covenent?
[2008/05/10 10:33] Beathan Vale: TP -- fines --
[2008/05/10 10:33] Beathan Vale: fines work in RL
[2008/05/10 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: we can make our own rules
[2008/05/10 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: the fines here are not a good way to make the matter resolve my friend beathan
[2008/05/10 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: fines are not enough
[2008/05/10 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: this is NOT RL
[2008/05/10 10:33] Beathan Vale: and if a person is willing to pay a fine -- rather than move to a place where they won't be fined -- let them
[2008/05/10 10:33] Flyingroc Chung: I know beathan, I was pointing out to TP that the bill indeed allows the CoC to forcibly take someone else's land.
[2008/05/10 10:33] Moon Adamant: so you do want an Eminent Domain?
[2008/05/10 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: double five dollars its ten bucks who cares
[2008/05/10 10:34] You: hmm - i see no prob with a little freewheeling chat here. Roc, you had something? I guess it's the 'swap' point? I agree with Roc on this, BTW. Confiscation gives me the creeps if the landowner wasn't clearly warned when they originally purchased.
[2008/05/10 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont want eminent doman
[2008/05/10 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: we want to rework that part FR
[2008/05/10 10:34] Moon Adamant: but that's what it is
[2008/05/10 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: we want teh covenent adhered to
[2008/05/10 10:34] MT Lundquist: clearly warned is the covenent
[2008/05/10 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: so how other than fines do we make that happen.. i have a suggestion if anyone wants to know
[2008/05/10 10:34] Beathan Vale: TP -- this bill is emininent domain -- saying you want this bill is like saying that you want a four legged domesiticate mamber of Genus Canus -- but don't want a dog
[2008/05/10 10:35] You: Folks, let me ask it this way -- if this was sim 4 and the rules were in place before anyone bought a plot, would you THEN have problems with the proposed enforcement?
[2008/05/10 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: so the bill no one wants as is beathan!
[2008/05/10 10:35] Moon Adamant: you can install an escrow system, for example
[2008/05/10 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: yes jamie.. how do we enforce the covenent
[2008/05/10 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: what is that moon?
[2008/05/10 10:35] Widget Whiteberry has a question
[2008/05/10 10:35] Moon Adamant: a merchant leaves a sum in deposit with the coc
[2008/05/10 10:36] You: Let's be polite, or polite-ish, and get Moon's answer and then take comments from our visitor Widget, hmn?
[2008/05/10 10:36] ThePrincess Parisi: why?
[2008/05/10 10:36] Moon Adamant: in case of transgression, the fine is levelled out of the escrow
[2008/05/10 10:36] Moon Adamant: and of course, i assume that this is a process which can be appealed to?
[2008/05/10 10:36] MT Lundquist: its worth noting that we already have conferscation rules
[2008/05/10 10:37] MT Lundquist: if citizens dont pay their tier they eventually lose ther land
[2008/05/10 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: if there are fines they must be VERY steep to reflect the loss to our community when a huge lot on the forum or plat z is empty for months on end
[2008/05/10 10:37] MT Lundquist: Sudane explained that to the commission
[2008/05/10 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: ill go with fines but they must be HUGE.. and then beathan what if they dont pay the fines then what
[2008/05/10 10:37] Flyingroc Chung: Widget, ask away
[2008/05/10 10:37] Widget Whiteberry: As land is a metaphor, how might you define the problem you are trying to resolve or the solution you are trying to reach, without depending on metaphorical (ephemeral) land?
[2008/05/10 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: eventually we have to take the land
[2008/05/10 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: good point, take them to the SC
[2008/05/10 10:38] Flyingroc Chung: MT, I think in our history, we have only forcibly taken land from a non-paying citizen once.
[2008/05/10 10:38] Widget Whiteberry: ... your asset is your association, your community
[2008/05/10 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: if they broke rules of CDS we would take them to the SC
[2008/05/10 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: yes we have FR
[2008/05/10 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: ask sudane, she has taken land, we have a process for that
[2008/05/10 10:38] You: Prin. May Widget finish?
[2008/05/10 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry
[2008/05/10 10:38] You: ...
[2008/05/10 10:38] MT Lundquist: its in progress now actually FR
[2008/05/10 10:38] MT Lundquist: Sudane explained
[2008/05/10 10:38] You: ...
[2008/05/10 10:38] MT Lundquist: process*+
[2008/05/10 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: sudane was on the commerce commission
[2008/05/10 10:39] Flyingroc Chung: yes, TP, we have done so, but only once.I think this demonstrates we should take this forcible taking of land very seriosly.
[2008/05/10 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry was widget done
[2008/05/10 10:39] Widget Whiteberry: that's really all I wanted to ask/comment
[2008/05/10 10:39] You: I am not sure we are managing to look like we welcome public comment, at the moment :)
[2008/05/10 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: shes doing this now..
[2008/05/10 10:39] MT Lundquist: yes sudane is
[2008/05/10 10:39] MT Lundquist: takes 3 months
[2008/05/10 10:39] MT Lundquist: approx
[2008/05/10 10:40] You: Are there other new points, for now?
[2008/05/10 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i think we /not me but the commerce commision including all factions was clear
[2008/05/10 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: that we MUST resolve our empty lots in dense commercial places issue
[2008/05/10 10:41] Flyingroc Chung: So tell me, will the CoC also take 3 monhs to confiscate someone's land? It doesnt seem like this will fix the perceived problem of non-commercial plots
[2008/05/10 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: we have to solve this problem.. painful and controversial as it is
[2008/05/10 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: we need solutions
[2008/05/10 10:41] You: I strongly agree, even if we don't quite yet have a specific set of remedies ironed out perfectly. May I suggest that when MT redrafts, the C of C part also needs to specify which other older bodies if any are replaced & decommissioned?
[2008/05/10 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: well give us some ideas!
[2008/05/10 10:41] MT Lundquist: i can do that yes
[2008/05/10 10:41] You: :) will do
[2008/05/10 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: hwo can you enforce the covenent
[2008/05/10 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: its been on the forum for ages
[2008/05/10 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: fines? how high?
[2008/05/10 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: how long
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: go to
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: lets go to CN forum NOW
[2008/05/10 10:42] Flyingroc Chung: Fines for non-compliance, and incentives for compliance.
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: i want you to look
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: what if they dont pay the fines
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: let us go now
[2008/05/10 10:42] Jamie Palisades whispers, good points all, but let's take THAT to the Forums
[2008/05/10 10:42] Beathan Vale: FR -- yes, exactly
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: get up and go
[2008/05/10 10:42] Flyingroc Chung: maybe progresive fines, the longer you are non-compliant the higher the fine.
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: its been on the fricken forum three months jamie
[2008/05/10 10:42] You: Sorry Prin, I got a meeting to finish :)
[2008/05/10 10:42] Beathan Vale: and TP -nonpayment of fines would be like nonpayment of tier -- e
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: we can meet there
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: you need to look at YOUR community and see what its doing o us
[2008/05/10 10:42] Jamie Palisades notes we're 30 minutes over time
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: when a person tps in to CN and sees empty shops
[2008/05/10 10:43] Beathan Vale: we could get to repossession eventually -- but only through a GOVERNMENTAL process - not on the say-so of a private org
[2008/05/10 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: they leave
[2008/05/10 10:43] MT Lundquist: which brings you back to eventual conferscation of plots
[2008/05/10 10:43] MT Lundquist: for non payment
[2008/05/10 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: i agree beathan so lets set up this process
[2008/05/10 10:43] You: :) we need a bill - and I LOVE the idea of meeting "on the spot"
[2008/05/10 10:43] You: First thing is redrafting though
[2008/05/10 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: make the fines VERY HIgh
[2008/05/10 10:43] MT Lundquist: ok i will redraft
[2008/05/10 10:43] You: This is very helpful discussion that will assist MT in redrafting. Have we about exhausted it for now? Noting the time, we're 30 minutes over, but I regard that as a reasonable productive change. I *would* like your assent to briefly take up item 7, which unlike the others remaining, has some time sensitivity to it.
[2008/05/10 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: and then the consequences pretty darn swift
[2008/05/10 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: it hurts everyone
[2008/05/10 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: done.
[2008/05/10 10:44] You: ahem :) any last words for now? And do we want a special informal chat to go over this is more depth, voluntarily?
[2008/05/10 10:44] MT Lundquist: are we deciding about the COC now?
[2008/05/10 10:44] You: Prin, maybe a side meeting of those interested, just to brainstorm?
[2008/05/10 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: how about a citizen group that votes to the removeal finally .. or soemthing that "feels" not governmental
[2008/05/10 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: we had a commission jamie!
[2008/05/10 10:44] You: RA meeting formally, as such, just is not the best brainstorming device :)
[2008/05/10 10:44] Flyingroc Chung: and btw, widget, while our "land" is really electrons flying around, people feel really possesive about it. So while it's not really land, it is real property.
[2008/05/10 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: you are sending it back to d committee
[2008/05/10 10:45] You: but you and MT are asking for more input about remedies now - so NO - but does MT want soem help in his re-draft? Up to him :)
[2008/05/10 10:45] MT Lundquist: happy to accept help
[2008/05/10 10:45] You: I hope we'll have a new bill next week :)
[2008/05/10 10:45] MT Lundquist: if you are offering Jamie
[2008/05/10 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: what about the chamber of commerce part
[2008/05/10 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: is that redundant
[2008/05/10 10:46] Flyingroc Chung: I would suggest that this bill makes NL 4-14 obsolete
[2008/05/10 10:46] You: Sure - do we want to have a sitdown drafting session and invite anyone
[2008/05/10 10:46] Flyingroc Chung: it sets rules and things that nobody uses
[2008/05/10 10:46] You: and everyone? Been I while since I seen the Ice Castle :)
[2008/05/10 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: should we reinstate that
[2008/05/10 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: instead
[2008/05/10 10:46] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/05/10 10:46] You: sigh - can we fiinish up for now? MT will call for help as he sees fit, hm? All volunteers welcome
[2008/05/10 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: what ice castle?
[2008/05/10 10:47] You: :) yours silly
[2008/05/10 10:47] Flyingroc Chung: it's been in the books for a couple of years, it seems like the rules dont work.
[2008/05/10 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: ok we have a party at one
[2008/05/10 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: ok fr
[2008/05/10 10:47] You: :)
[2008/05/10 10:47] MT Lundquist: yes ok at the castle at icewater
[2008/05/10 10:47] You: close item for now?
[2008/05/10 10:47] MT Lundquist: i will send an announcement
[2008/05/10 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: close
[2008/05/10 10:47] You: cool
[2008/05/10 10:47] MT Lundquist: what about the Chamber part
[2008/05/10 10:48] MT Lundquist: COC?
[2008/05/10 10:48] MT Lundquist: part one
[2008/05/10 10:48] You: i's say, look at that too MT
[2008/05/10 10:48] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/05/10 10:48] You: we can't enact something today unless we know which other similar redudant groups we are closing - er - I think
[2008/05/10 10:48] You: next item,
[2008/05/10 10:48] You: let me ask for permission to take item 7 up out of order, it's short
[2008/05/10 10:49] You: and time sensitive
[2008/05/10 10:49] You: ...?
[2008/05/10 10:49] You: OK. This is my short report to the RA on an SC decision worth our noting.
[2008/05/10 10:49] You: 7
[2008/05/10 10:49] You: URI from them is in our agenda for today
[2008/05/10 10:49] Beathan Vale: did we really expel someon?
[2008/05/10 10:50] You: though they will post a transcript too eventually
[2008/05/10 10:50] You: There was a dispute about a land ejection. It was resolved :)
[2008/05/10 10:50] ThePrincess Parisi: i did
[2008/05/10 10:50] You: But it raises two issues for US
[2008/05/10 10:50] You: The first - which I want to note
[2008/05/10 10:51] You: is that the SC took the position that the general CDS laws about land ejection and the like
[2008/05/10 10:51] You: (marshals of the peace and all that)
[2008/05/10 10:51] You: which generally apply in CDS
[2008/05/10 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we need a gard
[2008/05/10 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: my life was in danger
[2008/05/10 10:51] You: were going to defer, during RA meetings, to our own rules of order.
[2008/05/10 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: i can start bringing a private body gard
[2008/05/10 10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: i used to bring one
[2008/05/10 10:52] You: So basically - they're saying, RA, police yourself :)
[2008/05/10 10:52] You: which I did want us to note.
[2008/05/10 10:52] You: Second item - and my last on this topic.
[2008/05/10 10:52] You: I think we should take seriously that delegation. So I plan to do a little work on confirming land permission issues and the like.
[2008/05/10 10:53] You: Then I plan to bring you an amendment or two that might make RA rules of order more clear about that sort of ting.
[2008/05/10 10:53] Beathan Vale: make it part of the job of the Parliamentarian
[2008/05/10 10:53] You: Could be, yes, BV
[2008/05/10 10:53] You: moral of the story: we need to sharpen up a it :)
[2008/05/10 10:53] Flyingroc Chung: I still cant think of anyone who'd want to be parliamentarian
[2008/05/10 10:53] You: fooey: b i t
[2008/05/10 10:54] You: So no action at this time, but I did want all to be focused on that as a moving item
[2008/05/10 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: if i could i woukd
[2008/05/10 10:54] You: and solicit any comments :)
[2008/05/10 10:54] You: next item?
[2008/05/10 10:55] You: OK, we're 5 minutes from default adjourn time
[2008/05/10 10:55] You: we skipped 5 and 6
[2008/05/10 10:55] You: I do not think either *requires* action today - but does anyone have a burning item at present on those?
[2008/05/10 10:56] You: I see conflicts of interest as being a big agenda item next week
[2008/05/10 10:57] You: anything else for now on those? No?
[2008/05/10 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: no
[2008/05/10 10:57] MT Lundquist: no
[2008/05/10 10:57] You: OK then - item 9 - open mike - anyone have random additional comments? :)
[2008/05/10 10:57] Flyingroc Chung: conflict of interest will take some time to debate
[2008/05/10 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: i wont voet for the two terms
[2008/05/10 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i dont like the two terms i want it for movement from one office to another
[2008/05/10 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: we cant afford two term limits now, our smaller factions
[2008/05/10 10:58] MT Lundquist: i support tps view
[2008/05/10 10:58] Beathan Vale: I don't mind the two term limits -- but I don't like movement between office restrictions
[2008/05/10 10:58] You: more?
[2008/05/10 10:58] Beathan Vale: there is no reason why we should put the most active members of our community on forced ice
[2008/05/10 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: why beathan ? thats the whole conflict issue ffs
[2008/05/10 10:59] Beathan Vale: seems silly
[2008/05/10 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: the problem is then that they vote here and go there or vic versa, solve that.. i would go for no voting on bills that have any remote link to the former offece
[2008/05/10 10:59] MT Lundquist: the 2 term limits mean we will rapidly run out of candidates
[2008/05/10 11:00] Flyingroc Chung: I think we have this debate int eh agenda next week, so I propose we adjorn :-)
[2008/05/10 11:00] Beathan Vale: I would rather see people move between offices than forcing them to take a term in the penalty box
[2008/05/10 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: maybe nt a term off but limiting the actions
[2008/05/10 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: second FR
[2008/05/10 11:00] MT Lundquist: the no move angle simply prevents a one term move
[2008/05/10 11:00] You: :) see, we will have a good chat next week
[2008/05/10 11:00] MT Lundquist: i guess so
[2008/05/10 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: mt wont be here
[2008/05/10 11:00] You: I encourage people to bring drafted text of proposed laws :D
[2008/05/10 11:00] Beathan Vale: MT -- it puts someone on the sideline for a full term -- much worse than term limits
[2008/05/10 11:00] MT Lundquist: i would like a 7 day vote on any items please
[2008/05/10 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: ok beathan then lets just limit the votes related to what they voted on
[2008/05/10 11:01] You: And MT, send along your thoughts via Forums & other RA members please
[2008/05/10 11:01] Widget Whiteberry: Thank you, all, I need to go
[2008/05/10 11:01] MT Lundquist: i'm sure Prin can talk for me
[2008/05/10 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: thnks widget
[2008/05/10 11:01] You: on everything at the meeting, MT, next week, or just on Confliuct of Intertest?
[2008/05/10 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/05/10 11:01] MT Lundquist: everything please
[2008/05/10 11:01] Moon Adamant: i must leave now
[2008/05/10 11:02] You: Ok, then one more thing :)
[2008/05/10 11:02] Moon Adamant: so thank you everyone, and the rest of a good saturday evening
[2008/05/10 11:02] You: ahem :)
[2008/05/10 11:02] You: Happy birthday to you
[2008/05/10 11:02] You: Happy birthday to you
[2008/05/10 11:02] Moon Adamant: LOL
[2008/05/10 11:02] You: Happy birthday dear Mooo-ooon
[2008/05/10 11:02] You: Happy birthday to you :)
[2008/05/10 11:02] Flyingroc Chung: Ooh
[2008/05/10 11:02] Moon Adamant: thank you Jamie :))
[2008/05/10 11:02] Flyingroc Chung: happy birthday!
[2008/05/10 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: happy birthday moon
[2008/05/10 11:02] MT Lundquist: HB Moon
[2008/05/10 11:02] Sonja Strom: Happy Birthday Moon!!
[2008/05/10 11:02] Beathan Vale: happy bday
[2008/05/10 11:02] Moon Adamant: thank you all :))
[2008/05/10 11:02] Moon Adamant: very much :)
[2008/05/10 11:02] You: We're adjourned :)
[2008/05/10 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: amen that was hard
[2008/05/10 11:03] Moon Adamant: thank you all the reps
[2008/05/10 11:03] Beathan Vale: no election meeting today
[2008/05/10 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: bleh
[2008/05/10 11:03] Sonja Strom: Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy!!! :D :D :D
[2008/05/10 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: why beathan?
[2008/05/10 11:03] Moon Adamant waves and says bye to everyone
[2008/05/10 11:03] Sonja Strom: bye
[2008/05/10 11:03] Beathan Vale: I don't have time
[2008/05/10 11:03] You: :)
[2008/05/10 11:03] Beathan Vale: if someone else wants to chair today -- feel free
[2008/05/10 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: FR can you ?
[2008/05/10 11:04] Flyingroc Chung: not really
[2008/05/10 11:04] You: BV, I see that as something which basically can take time, until, say, a month or so before the next election starts. Is that the right understanding?
[2008/05/10 11:05] Flyingroc Chung: yes, but the closer you get electoral reforms enacted to actual elections, there will be cries of
[2008/05/10 11:05] Flyingroc Chung: trying to conolidate power
[2008/05/10 11:05] Flyingroc Chung: or whatnot
[2008/05/10 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: i agree
[2008/05/10 11:05] Jamie Palisades intones: surely not
[2008/05/10 11:05] Beathan Vale: I am trying to put things together -- we have reached fairly few points of consensus -- and on minor items like using a 0-based count for the borda county
[2008/05/10 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: it needs to be a priorirty
[2008/05/10 11:05] You: heh
[2008/05/10 11:05] Sonja Strom: Yes, I'm sure that's true -- and maybe true?
[2008/05/10 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: elections are sooner than you think
[2008/05/10 11:05] MT Lundquist: july
[2008/05/10 11:06] ThePrincess Parisi: new citizens have to be in place 30 days before the polls open
[2008/05/10 11:06] Sonja Strom: Are other people getting SL to load ok? For me a lot of stuff is not rezzing.
[2008/05/10 11:06] ThePrincess Parisi: i am sonja
[2008/05/10 11:06] Flyingroc Chung: mine is fine


== My Second Life home is CDS. Retired after three terms
== as chancellor of the oldest self-governing sims in SL.
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