CDS law re group citizenship

[Sudane Erato]

It's come to my attention, from talking to some of the new citizens, that one of our RA members is advising new citizens that citizenship requires only a payment of L$100/month (in one case, the citizen understood L$100/year).

Of course, this is not true. If you talk to new and potential citizens, please be careful to explain that each person must *first* own a parcel of land. Then, if they wish, they can join a group which owns at least 128 square meters for each citizen member. This *must* be a group that owns land in the CDS! NuCare and CDS do *not* own land in the CDS.

I have now spoken to at least a half dozen people, all of whom had the same erroneous understanding. Please folks! New people who join with mistaken impressions are very prone to get frustrated and leave when the truth is explained to them.

Sudane...............................

[cleopatraxigalia]

Sudane.. EXCUSE ME! why are you spreading LIES......................you are not really being unpartisian here maam.

RUDE TO ME OK .. BUT TO NEW CITIZENS!

I have said that the fee is 100l a month and if you sell your land that you have to stay in a group and pay the fee. If someone forgot the details then oh well, you dont know that i am spreading false Info. I am not, whywould i do that.
..
The truth is you are appearing to be biased about who stays a citizen and who doesnt and that is just WRONG!

WE JUST LOST A CITIZEN BECAUSE YOU WERE A RUDE RUDE RUDE AND I HAVE THE NOTECARD TO PROVE IT.........and you were rude to me and MT, if you have a political agenda it needs to be made open and clear.........prove what i said................YOU CANT!!!! someone said i said something.......but i told them and they just didnt remember exactly right, thats why they asked YOU!!!

You shoulld be telling every citizen that leaves how they can remain a citizen, not trying to get rid of them.. How dare you!!! If you are over your head .. let us know.. if a person being a few hours late with their teir puts you over the edge , then we have a huge problem honey !!! when our citizenship doubles what will we do then?????????????oh i know, you will do what you can to make sure all CDS citizens are just complacent, rule abiding cronies of yours...........so CDS is a big joke and you arent an unbiased EO... ........................what a disappointement to us all. Not your fauilt.............but the time has come for someone to tell the truth.................and its not me, Sudane, its you .....

You have misrepresented the facts dear........AGAIN.

WHAT A DAY WHEN OUR DEAR (UNBIASED.. HAHAHAHA) eo TRYS TO RUN THE PLACE VIA THE ONLY WAY POSSIBLE............CITIZENS!!!!.. SHE IS MAD THAT SHE HAS TO COLLECT TEIRS HAD CUSSED ME OUT COS I WAS A DAY AND A HALF LATE, THEN PROCEEEDED TO BE RUDE RUDE RUDE TO OUR NEW CITIZEN TRYING TO SELL LAND AND RETAIN A CITIZENSHIP.

SO IF IT WAS HER FRIEND.............SHE WOULD HAVE TOLD THEM HOW.............................SUDANE.. YOU HAVE PROVEN YOUR TRUE COLORS.......AND CDS IS A BIG BIG JOKE BECAUSE OF YOU.

WHAT A WASTE.

CDS needs an overhaul alright.................and it needs a way to be run without one biased person holding the rieghns...

i am sure everyone will rally behind sudane and sing her/his? praises...................and say how unbiased they have always seen her........WELL

only til she wants a thing to happen. And sudane does not want a new sim! and she doesnt have methods to collect money that work for her...
well........................... what a total joke!

[symokurka]

May I quote the Dalai Lama?

1. Take into account that great love and great achievements involve great risk.
2. When you lose, don't lose the lesson.
3. Follow the three Rs:
- Respect for self
- Respect for others
- Responsibility for all your actions.
4. Remember that not getting what you want is sometimes a wonderful stroke of luck.
5. Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
6. Don't let a little dispute injure a great friendship.
7. When you realize you've made a mistake, take immediate steps to correct it.
8. Spend some time alone every day.
9. Open your arms to change, but don't let go of your values.
10.Remember that silence is sometimes the best answer.
11.Live a good, honourable life. Then when you get older and think back, you'll be able to enjoy it a second time.
12.A loving atmosphere in your home is the foundation for your life.
13.In disagreements with loved ones, deal only with the current situation. Don't bring up the past.
14.Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality.
15.Be gentle with the earth.
16.Once a year, go someplace you've never been before.
17.Remember that the best relationship is one in which your love for each other exceeds your need for each other.
18.Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

[Moon Adamant]

I think this thread requires the attention of the SC moderators.

[Justice Soothsayer]

Thanks, Moon. A reminder about the guidelines for use of the CDS discussion forums may be in order:

3.5: When disagreeing with another poster make sure that your response takes issue with the arguments rather than with the person behind them. Abuse and personal attacks will not be tolerated.

[Rose Springvale]

I'm very concerned about this "loophole" .. didn't the RA specifically REJECT paying fees for citizenship? Doesn't this dilute the citizenship of the rest of the population?

Please address this situation as soon as possible. I participated in the citizenship commission and thought there was resolution of this issue.

I'm very happy that many people want to participate in the CDS, and that is why we have friends of the CDS. But Citizens vote on matters that affect landholding, and it j ust isn't' fair to have people with no actual risk participating in those decisions.

[Sudane Erato]

The essence of the current law as I understand it is that citizens can hold that status by owning land as a member of a land owning group. So long as the group owns at least 128 sq meters for each of its citizen members, those group land owning members can be citizens.

There were two provisions. One is that the citizen's minimum individual contribution to the group land's tier is L$100. The other is that the citizen cannot JOIN the CDS as a citizen by becoming a member of such a group... rather they must own their own land first, and then only afterwards join the group as a land owning member.

These are my understandings, which could be wrong. I have attempted to ensure that every new citizen owns their own land first, before becoming a member of a land owning group. Beyond that, once they do become a member of a land owning group, all I can do is ensure that they pay the minimum fee. Adminstratively, the only real options for landowning group members is to pay either the minimum fee or to pay the fee for a specifically defined existing parcel which the group owns.

However, there *are* many loopholes, which I tried extensively to point out to the RA in sessions last year. I feel that these cry out for resolution, as evidenced by the situation occurring now. I started this thread because I have discovered that many new citizens are being told that they can be citizens simply by paying the L$100. This is not my understanding of the law.

Sudane..................................

[Rose Springvale]

Thanks for your patience and dligence Sudane... what a mess this promises to be.

I am curious about one other issue, and that is our restriction on alts owning land... is there ANY check or balance on that now? if not, perhaps the RA wants to take a look at that provision as well. And the waiver process on covenants...

or maybe i should just go back to work.

[Sudane Erato]

Well, from my point of view, alts CANNOT own land. Administering the land is bad enough with the framework that we have, that adding in the problem of tracking alts to their RL carbon entities is surely too complex.

And we *have* declared that each RL carbon entity can be *only* one citizen... i.e. one person one vote. Of course, we really do have no way of knowing whether you, Rose, are not the same RL person as Cindy or Moon, despite Ulrika's best efforts at enforcing such a provision. But, since we suspect that you are all indeed 3 separate RL people, we let the matter rest.

Permitting separate alts of the same RL person to own land, however, would be a disaster, and the few times its come up, I've refused to accept it. (Purely from an administrative point of view, of course).

Sudane....................

[Rose Springvale]

i know that.... (and wouldn't i be cool if i was cindy and moon AND rose?? If only i could be sudane too.... {smile}

but my question is.. when we buy the land directly... is there any way you can really tell?... since its all lindens?

and just for the record, no, i don't have any land holding alts in CDS, nor do i know personally of any.. but given the apparent creativity going on... i just wanted to bring the issue to the forefront.

[Sudane Erato]

but my question is.. when we buy the land directly... is there any way you can really tell?... since its all lindens?

There was no way you could *ever* tell. Sure... if we required production of our passport or other government id, we might have a higher likelihood of spotting imposters. But in SL it seems to me intrinsically impossible to identify alts. I mentioned Ulrika. For our very first election, Ulrika devised what she felt was a foolproof way to spot imposters, and, in the course of the election, caused one of our first serious crises by claiming that she had trapped two alts who she claimed were indeed one RL person.

As was often the case, she had lost connection with reality. She had devised a system for trapping the IP address of voters using the voting system that she devised, but, of course, would not reveal what the system, or the premise, was. She had decided that any two votes coming from the same IP address *had* to be from the same RL person. Therefore, in that very first election, among the 20 or so people in the original population, we already had cries of fraud and deceit!

During that first election, two of our citizens were Satchmo Prototype and Digi Vox, partners in SL and in RL. They both accessed the internet from behind the same router, and thus had the same IP address. We all had to guess what Ulrika's system was, and finally "outed" it.

If SL can't tell identify the common RL identity of two alts (who consciously attempt to hide their identity), by what stretch of the imagination do we decide that we can?

Sudane............................

[Desmond Shang]

Well, being a democracy... can't it be run as poorly and haphazardly as the people wish, leaving such issues to fester indefinitely?

If citizens can be added for a mere $L 100 a month, can I add about 500 or so? Pwetty pwease? For 200 bucks I could overthrow teh CDS g0vernm3ntz...

Who wants to be Provincial Guvnah of the CDS, Crown Colony of Caledon? Just need one person to get us in the door!

Cindy, how about you, you'd look great in red! We'll make a portrait! I could toss in an admiralty too, they make for killer uniforms - what with the sea in the background? Or maybe Patroklus. Man, that would rock the RA meeting when he swept in... Or, oooh, I've got it... Salzie! Nobody suspects Salzie! Imagine a thin smile forming as the truth dawns... she would be disciplined, but fair...

And best of all, poor Sudane is stuck administrating the place and doing all the dirty work while we take tea with petits fours and little sandwiches, and make snippy commentary on how we are going to fix up the place so it's right-proper. Bet the Rathaus needs a bit of spring cleaning... After that, we could talk taxation, and setting up for tourists... we could decree an Ulrika Festival, maybe even form a circle and summon her from the Beyond! Ahhh, the old ways always were crowdpleasers...

*slips into a dream...* Desmond Shang, Royalist faction - "We've got the snappy red coats!"

Remember folks, it just takes one! Be the first to open the gate for us in this thread, and when it's all over you'll be wearing gold epaulettes and be titled aristocracy in no time! I'll even get you a pony!

No rush to fix that citizenship loophole - we'll take care of it quick, our first governmental act, I promise!

Your favourite aristocratic menace from across the seas, Desmond

thisthreadiscomedygold

[Rose Springvale]

ah desmond... you promise but you don't deliver! i'm still waiting for pie!

now what are you donating to our auction?

but.. i do have land i can sell you... hehe

[Desmond Shang]

I appreciate the offer, but just *purchasing* a plot myself like that would lack a certain style... it would be common thuggery to take over in such manner.

Nay, proper evil needs grandiose scope, a 'plan'... and selling out in the name of a "greater good" of some kind. It's just not done right, unless there is a crisis of faith within the hearts of those affected, and some higher ethic to be learned from the ensuing tragedy.

I read up on this stuff, you see.

Now carry on, carry on... but remember, the dread foreign threat is ever present and watching from just beyond the gates!

Which reminds me. Alexicon wanted an embassy, I'll be seeing about that in a week or two. Make sure you've got your full dress uniforms and proper dinnerware, flags and whatnot packed and ready, and the spi^H^H^HDiplomats all set with their stationery ready to go! *signs visas ahead of time, with a flourish*

This should be bloody amusing... grin

[cleopatraxigalia]

"However, there *are* many loopholes, which I tried extensively to point out to the RA in sessions last year. I feel that these cry out for resolution, as evidenced by the situation occurring now. I started this thread because I have discovered that many new citizens are being told that they can be citizens simply by paying the L$100. This is not my understanding of the law.

Sudane.................................."

Sudane .. now listen here.... the people asking you about staying a citizen after they sold their land, had sold the land they owned in CDS.. right? so how on earth are you claiming anyone thought that they just paid 100L a month.............THESE WERE ALL PEOPLE THAT HAD JUST SOLD LAND IN CDS.....They had been land holders........................if someone misunderstood what kind of group they had to be in , or that they had to pay 100l a month not a year.. dont go around saying I am telling them anyone can be a citizen for 100 l a month. You are not making sense ..........

The real issue is that you are not wanting more citizens............you have all you can handle ... am I right? and you have a political bias as well which has been proven on this thread.. You are interpreting and having an effect on who remains citzens by what you tell them.......and that is just plain wrong

And what are the said LOOPHOLES..........The only one is YOU and how you dispense information in a biased manner.

````````````````````````if someone wants to be a citizen of CDS they have to own land
if they sell the land and want to stay a citizen they can join a land holders group`and remain a citizen by paying 100l a month.. if that is misinformation then tell me now, yes i tell people this. It is the truth ...........

Sudane told me that she didnt want more citizens..................( can i assume not a new sim either??) ...

Sad sad sad.........................................i never thought i'd see the day.