See http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1907 for a non-normative (unofficial) index of the action items and main points from this meeting.
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Transcript of 31 May 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
conducted at the Colonia Nova Praetorium
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= "You", below)
Topic separators "----" inserted to separate agenda items
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[2008/05/31 10:00] Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/Alpine%20Meadow/180/200/55
[2008/05/31 10:01] You: Good morning all - forgive me while I do a few IMs to summon folks
[2008/05/31 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi all :)
[2008/05/31 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: are u trying to brainwash us roc
[2008/05/31 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: roxanne
[2008/05/31 10:04] Flyingroc Chung: I got song stuck in my head, and so must all of you
[2008/05/31 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: she bangs
[2008/05/31 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: i love that one i had it in my head for a year
[2008/05/31 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: ok i hate you roc
[2008/05/31 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/05/31 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: my heads weird enoough
[2008/05/31 10:05] Beathan Vale: I have one too -- I rewrote "the Rose" for my stepdaughter
[2008/05/31 10:05] Beathan Vale: ::sings:: Some say gloves are just some clothing -- that covers up your hands
[2008/05/31 10:05] Beathan Vale: ::sings:: Some say gloves are more warming in the cold than wristbands
[2008/05/31 10:05] Beathan Vale: ::sings:: Some say gloves accessorize you better than sleeves alone
[2008/05/31 10:06] You: heh
[2008/05/31 10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ;)
[2008/05/31 10:06] Beathan Vale: ::sings:: I say gloves will not disguise you because your face is not unknown
[2008/05/31 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: CUTE
[2008/05/31 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: mt wont be here
[2008/05/31 10:06] You: Well, we are quorate - almost done with the notices :)
[2008/05/31 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hehe
[2008/05/31 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn sees some future SC members approaching...
[2008/05/31 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What is that floating around you, Dnate??!?
[2008/05/31 10:08] Dnate Mars: I am really sorry guys, an emergancy has come up, I only have about 15 more minutes before I have to leave
[2008/05/31 10:08] Flyingroc Chung: peanut butter and jelly
[2008/05/31 10:08] You: NP and thank you for coming
[2008/05/31 10:08] Dnate Mars: my friends, PB and &J
[2008/05/31 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh *why*?!
[2008/05/31 10:08] Beathan Vale: hmmm -- I also rewrote the marriage scene from Monty Python's grail to be the DNC rules committee -- with Hillary as Launcelot ...
[2008/05/31 10:08] Beathan Vale: busy week for me -- except for work lol
[2008/05/31 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL Beathan!
[2008/05/31 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahaha
[2008/05/31 10:09] Dnate Mars: I was bored with Shark and Cat?
[2008/05/31 10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi Cindy, sorry, I hadn't seen you!)
[2008/05/31 10:09] You: Sonja's coming :)
[2008/05/31 10:09] Cindy Ecksol: that's ok....I just walked in
----
[2008/05/31 10:09] You: Let's get started and call to order
[2008/05/31 10:09] You: proposed agenda is HERE > http://forums.slcds.info//viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1885
[2008/05/31 10:10] You: One proposal for change is before us in a moment
----
[2008/05/31 10:10] You: 1a
[2008/05/31 10:10] You: would all present please indicate assent to being recorded. I assent.
[2008/05/31 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn assents
[2008/05/31 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: i assent
[2008/05/31 10:10] Beathan Vale: so long as my statements are never used for nefarious or Clintonian purposes, I assent
[2008/05/31 10:10] Dnate Mars: I assent
----
[2008/05/31 10:10] You: 1b - routine notice - let me know if the transcripts are in error please, smile
----
[2008/05/31 10:11] You: 1c
[2008/05/31 10:11] Cindy Ecksol: assent
[2008/05/31 10:11] You: Any speakers other than RA (and SC nominees) who have an item for us to include on agenda today?
[2008/05/31 10:11] You: not hearing any
[2008/05/31 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: None from me, I'm afraid I have to catch up on my RA homework...
----
[2008/05/31 10:12] You: 1b (reversed with 1d sorry)
[2008/05/31 10:12] You: Agenda changes? I have one. Dnate is kind enough to join us even though he has to rush off.
[2008/05/31 10:12] You: May we move the vote on his confirmation to before item 2?
[2008/05/31 10:12] ThePrincess Parisi: mt is on his way .. i think that we will like to wait for him for that
[2008/05/31 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No problem with me :D
[2008/05/31 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: he was told it was at 1115
[2008/05/31 10:13] You: and Cindy, I though, might not be able to join us, but since she is here, we can get her done early as well, hm?
[2008/05/31 10:13] You: Well up to you all :)
[2008/05/31 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: no cos MT was told it was at 1115 but
[2008/05/31 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: w/e
[2008/05/31 10:13] You: Ah MT
[2008/05/31 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn definitely has no problem with doing the SC vote of confidence on *every member* first
[2008/05/31 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: w/e works for them its fine
[2008/05/31 10:13] You: yes I just heard from him, he expects to be here in 10 mins, he's momentatily busy in RL of course as you know
[2008/05/31 10:14] You: :) I will move to make SC confirmation #2 (before the current #2) - unless there are no objections ?
[2008/05/31 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: hi sonja
[2008/05/31 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/05/31 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi there, Sonja :)
[2008/05/31 10:14] Flyingroc Chung: there are no objections
[2008/05/31 10:15] Flyingroc Chung: from me
[2008/05/31 10:15] Sonja Strom: Hi
[2008/05/31 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No objections here, and ready to vote!
[2008/05/31 10:15] You: OK
[2008/05/31 10:16] You: that's it for the agenda then
[2008/05/31 10:16] You: 1e
[2008/05/31 10:16] You: Future meetings
[2008/05/31 10:16] You: Please note the Forum posts on this
[2008/05/31 10:16] You: roughly:
[2008/05/31 10:16] You: next week - Alexi's Chancellor report
[2008/05/31 10:16] You: 7 June
[2008/05/31 10:16] You: after that
[2008/05/31 10:16] Beathan Vale: King County once had this crazy judge who would object and overrule himself during trials -- it was a hoot
[2008/05/31 10:17] You: 14 June, (smile) Treasurer report and budget process chat
[2008/05/31 10:17] MT Lundquist: hi
[2008/05/31 10:17] You: Hello
[2008/05/31 10:17] Moon Adamant: hello everyone, sorry i am late
[2008/05/31 10:17] You: (Rose, MT, others, please do assent to recording when you get a chance, if you have not)
[2008/05/31 10:17] ThePrincess Parisi blows MT a kiss
[2008/05/31 10:17] Rose Springvale: assent
[2008/05/31 10:17] MT Lundquist: i assent
---
[2008/05/31 10:17] You: 1f
[2008/05/31 10:17] Sonja Strom: i assent
[2008/05/31 10:17] Moon Adamant: i aseent to recording
[2008/05/31 10:17] You: And consent items today? I know of none
[2008/05/31 10:17] MT Lundquist blows one back
[2008/05/31 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi everybody that just came in :) )
[2008/05/31 10:17] You: Any consent items other than blown kisses?
[2008/05/31 10:18] You: :)
[2008/05/31 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn definitely consents on blown kisses .)
[2008/05/31 10:18] You: OK then
[2008/05/31 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: i wont blow you a kiss gwyen
----
[2008/05/31 10:18] You: item 4, which we modified the agenda to take out of order
[2008/05/31 10:18] You: hush :)
[2008/05/31 10:18] Moon Adamant: hi Justice
[2008/05/31 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I'll survive, Prin ;) )
[2008/05/31 10:18] You: 4
[2008/05/31 10:18] You: Confirming SC nominees
[2008/05/31 10:18] You: please note:
[2008/05/31 10:19] You: 1. majority vote required
[2008/05/31 10:19] You: 2. no action in 30 days = automatic assent
[2008/05/31 10:19] Beathan Vale: Justice -- you are sitting on Rose
[2008/05/31 10:19] Justice Soothsayer: sorry
[2008/05/31 10:19] Rose Springvale: lol
[2008/05/31 10:19] You: 3. Dnate's first, as he has time constraints
[2008/05/31 10:19] You: 4. we'd asked them to come chat :)
[2008/05/31 10:19] You: so here we are
[2008/05/31 10:19] Rose Springvale: i like justice!
[2008/05/31 10:19] Jamie Palisades wrinkles his nose - "I like justice..." heh
[2008/05/31 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi claps
[2008/05/31 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: :-)
[2008/05/31 10:20] Rose Springvale smiles
----
[2008/05/31 10:20] You: Dnate? Congratulations on your nomination.
[2008/05/31 10:20] Dnate Mars: Thank you
[2008/05/31 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Congrats indeed :)
[2008/05/31 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi puts that snapshot away for safe keeping
[2008/05/31 10:20] You: Anything to share with us? Then I will ask for Qs from RA members.
[2008/05/31 10:20] You: (No no, nothing required, just giving you a chance if you wish)
[2008/05/31 10:20] Beathan Vale: Justice -- chair between Rose and me is open
[2008/05/31 10:21] Beathan Vale: I meant "Justice" not "Justrice"
[2008/05/31 10:21] Dnate Mars: I think most of what I have done within the CDS is well known. I have been involved for a long time in the workings of the government
[2008/05/31 10:21] Beathan Vale: now there's a type
[2008/05/31 10:21] Dnate Mars: I will gladly answer any questions anyone has
[2008/05/31 10:21] You: Hush BV :)
[2008/05/31 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi thinks Beathan went to starbucks this am
[2008/05/31 10:22] Dnate Mars: that is all
[2008/05/31 10:22] Flyingroc Chung: whats your position on term limits for SC members?
[2008/05/31 10:22] You: I have one :) What's the expected time commitment as you understand it, Dnate? We have seen some lonely Deans and long meeting gaps occasionally
[2008/05/31 10:22] You: FR first :)
[2008/05/31 10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn *coughs* right...
[2008/05/31 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: just be upfront and ask dnate what his schedule is like and can he make the time committment necessary
[2008/05/31 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi hates beating around bushes
[2008/05/31 10:23] You: Dnate - Roc asked about term limits?
[2008/05/31 10:23] Dnate Mars: Term limits are an interesting idea that do need to be looked into. At this point it needs to be discussed more before I can make an informed statement
[2008/05/31 10:23] You: :) and my Q about time commitments
[2008/05/31 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: i have a Q
[2008/05/31 10:24] Dnate Mars: Time commitmnets, I should be able to work with nearly any schedule. I am very open and flexible, except with unplanned things come up like just now :/
[2008/05/31 10:25] MT Lundquist: quick move jamie
[2008/05/31 10:25] You: :) are there a lot of SC meetings these days? Not really a Q for you I guess :)
[2008/05/31 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: so its different now than when you were chancellor right dnate? your schedule is really different now
[2008/05/31 10:25] You: Prin and BV had Qs as well. Princess?
[2008/05/31 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: TheP
[2008/05/31 10:25] Dnate Mars: Yes, very much so, the things that were eating my time back then no longer are there
[2008/05/31 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: well, i just wonder .. if you have to rule on an item and its not clearly stated in the constitution, how will you make that decision
[2008/05/31 10:26] You: :) oo I like that one!
[2008/05/31 10:26] Dnate Mars: I will look at the laws, and the intent behind laws. It is all I have to look at
[2008/05/31 10:27] Dnate Mars: Sometimes I may have vote to return a law to the RA to be made more clear
[2008/05/31 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: nods
[2008/05/31 10:27] You: hm - us, unclear? (grin) - I think Beathan also had a Q :)
[2008/05/31 10:27] Beathan Vale: How would you analyze the right of a citizen to property verses the right of the CDS to determine and regulate use of that property -- what principles and analysis would you use (in general, hypothetical terms)
[2008/05/31 10:27] Dnate Mars: Also, discussing it with fellow SC members will be important
[2008/05/31 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Beathan :)
[2008/05/31 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Your Honour, I object to Beathan's question.
[2008/05/31 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, Mr LRA.
[2008/05/31 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: :)
[2008/05/31 10:28] You: No honour here, dulci, we are politicians ...
[2008/05/31 10:28] You: but
[2008/05/31 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol on "no honour here"!!!
[2008/05/31 10:28] You: it's for Dnate to answer or not according to his own taste :)
[2008/05/31 10:28] Beathan Vale: and -- how would you determine "intent" when analyzing issues about which there is no clear constitutional authority
[2008/05/31 10:29] Beathan Vale: and -- please describe the history of the world -- be brief -- lol
[2008/05/31 10:29] You: hah
[2008/05/31 10:29] You: anywhere you want to take all that, Dnate?
[2008/05/31 10:29] Dnate Mars: There will always be things that will be unclear in the constitution, if everything was clear, there would be no need for the SC
[2008/05/31 10:29] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/05/31 10:29] Beathan Vale: but seriously -- the first 2 questions are real --
[2008/05/31 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont have to misbehave today, bv will do it
[2008/05/31 10:30] Dnate Mars: I will do what is best to uphold the principles that the CDS was founded on, and what the laws and constitution reflect
[2008/05/31 10:30] Beathan Vale: ::nod::
[2008/05/31 10:30] Dnate Mars: I do not know enough about the issue you bring up to make a judgement on it right now
[2008/05/31 10:31] You: One quick short follow-up, maybe, Beathan?
[2008/05/31 10:31] Dnate Mars: I will just use what I can to determine what the correct ruling would be
[2008/05/31 10:31] Beathan Vale: fair enough -- no I'm done
[2008/05/31 10:31] You: Or have you had your shot?
[2008/05/31 10:31] You: OK :)
[2008/05/31 10:31] You: Members are you ready to vote on confirming Dnate's nomination?
[2008/05/31 10:31] Beathan Vale: yes
[2008/05/31 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i suppose
[2008/05/31 10:31] Sonja Strom: yes
[2008/05/31 10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, lol
[2008/05/31 10:32] Flyingroc Chung: sure
[2008/05/31 10:32] You: :) Please state your vote. I vote aye
[2008/05/31 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: mt has to relog
[2008/05/31 10:32] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/05/31 10:32] Flyingroc Chung: aye
[2008/05/31 10:32] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/05/31 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: I have worked with Dnate for quite a while and i have always known him to be fair level headed and more and most importnantly wants what is best for CDS and each citizen
[2008/05/31 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: i vote AYE!
[2008/05/31 10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I most assuredly vote "aye" as well, with compliments to the Dean for such a great choice, and congratulations on Dnate's acceptance of that honour!
[2008/05/31 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: and smart
[2008/05/31 10:33] You: :)
[2008/05/31 10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And looks good, too ;)
[2008/05/31 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: and wise
[2008/05/31 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: and blue
[2008/05/31 10:33] Dnate Mars: You guys are making be blush
[2008/05/31 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: ish
[2008/05/31 10:33] You: Approved 7-0-0, right? Did I hear MT?
[2008/05/31 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: do you blush purple
[2008/05/31 10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Blush or Blue-sh? ;)
[2008/05/31 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: he said aye but he had to rlog
[2008/05/31 10:33] You: kk thanks
[2008/05/31 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: yay
[2008/05/31 10:33] Dnate Mars: I thank you and look forward to serving you
[2008/05/31 10:33] You: and thank you Dnate for sticking with us, time commitments and all, and good luck :)
[2008/05/31 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: may the force be with you
[2008/05/31 10:34] Dnate Mars: Thank you, but I do need to run
[2008/05/31 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good luck, and RUN!
[2008/05/31 10:34] Dnate Mars: Good luck Cindy
[2008/05/31 10:34] You: Cindy :) You are our second nominee
----
[2008/05/31 10:34] Cindy Ecksol: congrats dnate -- and thanks!
[2008/05/31 10:34] You: Any words from you before I ask for questions?
[2008/05/31 10:35] Cindy Ecksol: I'll just comment that when claude asked if I'd be willing to be nominated, my first concern was that I did not have enough experience in CDS to do the job well
[2008/05/31 10:35] Cindy Ecksol: but I've spent the last few weeks reading up on CDS history and precedents, and others I've consulted have told me that I'll do fine, so I'm willing to trust their opinions
[2008/05/31 10:36] Cindy Ecksol: assuming that the RA thinks I'm qualified, of course.
[2008/05/31 10:36] You: Thank you. Questions for Cindy?
[2008/05/31 10:36] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/05/31 10:36] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/05/31 10:36] Flyingroc Chung: Who is your favorite US supreme court justice?
[2008/05/31 10:36] Cindy Ecksol: :-)
[2008/05/31 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: :)
[2008/05/31 10:36] Cindy Ecksol: wow!
[2008/05/31 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I object to FR's question too ;)
[2008/05/31 10:36] ThePrincess Parisi: i object to gwyens objections
[2008/05/31 10:36] You: OK and I have one :) and BV may resurrect his :) MT first
[2008/05/31 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: who is she to object to anything
[2008/05/31 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: object
[2008/05/31 10:37] You: *sigh*
[2008/05/31 10:37] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/05/31 10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm an elected RA member!
[2008/05/31 10:37] Cindy Ecksol: ok, FR, I'll answer -- it's former justice Sandra Day O'Connor.
[2008/05/31 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/05/31 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: not really but ok
[2008/05/31 10:37] You: pax, you lot. MT has the floor
[2008/05/31 10:37] MT Lundquist: cindy do you recall the last SC meeting at which you were present as a nominee
[2008/05/31 10:37] Beathan Vale: Cindy -- other than Souter -- she's mine too -- even though her opinions tend to be unreadable
[2008/05/31 10:37] Cindy Ecksol: I was not present as a nominee, just an observer
[2008/05/31 10:38] MT Lundquist: oh i understood that you had already been nominated for the SC at that point
[2008/05/31 10:38] Cindy Ecksol: part of my education process, mt -- I had never been to an sc session before
[2008/05/31 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: she had MT, it was known to her
[2008/05/31 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: this makes my point
[2008/05/31 10:38] You: um
[2008/05/31 10:38] You: MT
[2008/05/31 10:38] You: was there a question in there?
[2008/05/31 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: he's not done
[2008/05/31 10:39] MT Lundquist: that meeting in part looked at whether a member of the RA could eject an unruly person did it not
[2008/05/31 10:39] Cindy Ecksol: actually I'm not sure that was the question....but continue
[2008/05/31 10:39] Beathan Vale: Cindy -- given that you are a recent citizen, what will you do to better familiarize yourself with the history (especially legal history) of the CDS and the CDS constitution so that you have the knowledge needed to construe it and the intent of the founders?
[2008/05/31 10:40] MT Lundquist: and at that meeting you decided to 'Freeze' hePrincess parisi an RA member giving evidence to the SC did you not?
[2008/05/31 10:40] You: MT still has the floor :)
[2008/05/31 10:40] Cindy Ecksol: ah...are you asking if I've stopped beating my wife yet?
[2008/05/31 10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: :)
[2008/05/31 10:41] MT Lundquist: no i'm asking if you froze an RA member giving evidence to the SC
[2008/05/31 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: did he crash?
[2008/05/31 10:41] Cindy Ecksol: no, I did not freeze an RA member giving evidence to the sc
[2008/05/31 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: you did too .. lol
[2008/05/31 10:41] MT Lundquist: you admitted it in my presence at the time
[2008/05/31 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: she did !!
[2008/05/31 10:41] MT Lundquist: i have the chat logs
[2008/05/31 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: oh gosh shes a liar too
[2008/05/31 10:42] MT Lundquist: are you lying now
[2008/05/31 10:42] You: Let's be civil - which means, let Cindy answer, then see if MT has more questions - then we turn to the next RA member :)
[2008/05/31 10:42] Cindy Ecksol: no, I was testing the contention of a witness that there were no other options than to eject a person from public space
[2008/05/31 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: i never said that was my only option
[2008/05/31 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: now you are lying again
[2008/05/31 10:42] Cindy Ecksol: I did not know what "freeze" would do, so it seemed prudent to test it before bringing it up.
[2008/05/31 10:42] MT Lundquist: so did you freeze an RA member giving evidence to the RA
[2008/05/31 10:42] MT Lundquist: yes or no
[2008/05/31 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: thats the truth! she did it....finally
[2008/05/31 10:43] MT Lundquist: so you chose to do it in an SC session
[2008/05/31 10:43] Cindy Ecksol: sorry -- I am confused. what is this about an ra member in the ra being frozen?
[2008/05/31 10:43] MT Lundquist: on an RA member giving evidence
[2008/05/31 10:43] You: MT, you and Cindy seem to disagree, on some details but not others. Seems clear enough. Is there anything more to be said about your question? Or do we move to the next one? Ideally without name calling.
[2008/05/31 10:43] MT Lundquist: well my point here is i feel that Cindy display extreme irresponsibility in doing that
[2008/05/31 10:44] MT Lundquist: and she seemed to try and evade the truth a moment ago
[2008/05/31 10:44] You: ok. Both points made :)
[2008/05/31 10:44] MT Lundquist: i do not consider that a good basis for her to become an sc member
[2008/05/31 10:44] Cindy Ecksol: just one moment, JP -- I object to that statement by MT
[2008/05/31 10:44] Beathan Vale: well -- I think her explanation indicates the opposite -- she did not want to say something that might be untrue -- so she needed to test it first
[2008/05/31 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: WE...........know you better and have been affliated with you longer than the rest of th e members of CDS, and we the members of NUCARE strongly object to you being a member of the SC, you have shown extreme lack of judgement on many occasions and do not have the best interest in mind of CDS
[2008/05/31 10:44] Beathan Vale: this dead horse is well-beaten
[2008/05/31 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: beathan you were not there
[2008/05/31 10:44] You: *ahem*
[2008/05/31 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: and you do not know what we know
[2008/05/31 10:44] You: :)
[2008/05/31 10:45] You: would all please be still for a moment
[2008/05/31 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: its one of many many instances of lack of judgement
[2008/05/31 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: and poor choices
[2008/05/31 10:45] Cindy Ecksol sighs
[2008/05/31 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: and disregard for the citizens
[2008/05/31 10:45] You: we can in fact disvuss hot items in cool tones, hm?
[2008/05/31 10:45] You: Prin
[2008/05/31 10:45] You: you are out of order now. Last request
[2008/05/31 10:46] You: I *think* MT was done with his question - and got an answer - and didn;t like it - and tht's OK. And Cindy objected to MT's statement, and that's OK too.
[2008/05/31 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: i do
[2008/05/31 10:46] You: And we are done with that thread.
[2008/05/31 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: only that i was there and MT is right
[2008/05/31 10:46] You: And it is Princess's turn for any civil question.
[2008/05/31 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: how do i ask a question to a person who lies, and will twist the truth to her own side and is not NOT the person who will best serve CDS,
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: i cannot
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: i will only say
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: i know her best
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: and i do NOT approve
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: not for personal reasons
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: but for the benefit of CDS
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: whic h i love
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: and i support
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: and she tries to damage
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: she is the enemy within
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: CDS
[2008/05/31 10:47] You: OK, that's a statement, but perfectly in order. :) Any other questions from the RA?
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: we vote NO
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: done
[2008/05/31 10:47] Beathan Vale: ok -- I have my q
[2008/05/31 10:48] Cindy Ecksol: I saw it back there, beathan...hold on a sec while I retrieve
[2008/05/31 10:48] You: :) go BV
[2008/05/31 10:48] Beathan Vale: Cindy -- given that you are a recent citizen, what will you do to better familiarize yourself with the history (especially legal history) of the CDS and the CDS constitution so that you have the knowledge needed to construe it and the intent of the founders?
[2008/05/31 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi raises hand.....!!
[2008/05/31 10:48] Cindy Ecksol: ah, yes....about familiarzing myself with history of cds
[2008/05/31 10:49] Cindy Ecksol: I've spent some time in the last few weeks looking over the available history in the wiki and of course the constitution.
[2008/05/31 10:49] Cindy Ecksol: here in cds, time flies a LOT faster than in RL....so in four years we've got about 20 years of "history"
[2008/05/31 10:50] Cindy Ecksol: maybe more....it's been quite a run.
[2008/05/31 10:50] Cindy Ecksol: sitting on the SC, I think that not only the constitution as documented and the laws as passed have relevance -- so also does the flow of history. there are things in RA logs, for instance, that may need to be referred to in order to make good rulings
[2008/05/31 10:51] Cindy Ecksol: my intent is to keep that in mind whrn issues arise and go back and look (or talk to those who have been around for longer than I) when such matters arise
[2008/05/31 10:51] You: Hello to visitors, please sit or move, this is a formal meeting :)
[2008/05/31 10:51] You: Cindy is done with Beathan's Q. All done BV?
[2008/05/31 10:52] Beathan Vale: one more
[2008/05/31 10:52] Flyingroc Chung: I hear somebody typing
[2008/05/31 10:52] Cindy Ecksol thinks it's beathan
[2008/05/31 10:53] Beathan Vale: there are allegations that you do not work and play well with others -- given that the SC is a team can we get a commitment from you that you will be a "team player" -- and can you tell us what you think of the other SC members
[2008/05/31 10:53] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[2008/05/31 10:53] Justice Soothsayer: present company excluded?
[2008/05/31 10:53] Jamie Palisades mutters: aside from Justice's suit
[2008/05/31 10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: :)
[2008/05/31 10:53] Cindy Ecksol: well, I cannot give you an opinion of the other SC members because I honestly do not know them well.
[2008/05/31 10:54] Cindy Ecksol: however I can say that the vast majority of those with whom I have spent time in CDS and worked on projects with would probably tell you that I'm a pretty good team player.
[2008/05/31 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: you team doesnt agree.
[2008/05/31 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: yours you picked
[2008/05/31 10:55] Cindy Ecksol: I generally do not like to act alone, but that is not to say that when an issue is not being addressed, I will not step forward and take action that I think in necessary for the good of the community
[2008/05/31 10:55] MT Lundquist: like placing walls in colonia nova
[2008/05/31 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: or your own good ?? and how you look to others??
[2008/05/31 10:55] You: I think Cindy's done. Roc did you have something?
[2008/05/31 10:56] ThePrincess Parisi: the hot tub was damaging the CDS ! you cant wait for the process.. you take it in your own hands
[2008/05/31 10:56] You: ssst
[2008/05/31 10:56] ThePrincess Parisi: or your faction voting to not run for RA and you doint what you want
[2008/05/31 10:56] You: Prin :)
[2008/05/31 10:56] ThePrincess Parisi: well.. come one.. im sorry
[2008/05/31 10:56] Cindy Ecksol: Jamie, may I address that?
[2008/05/31 10:56] You: Is this your final statement? Or did you have a question?
[2008/05/31 10:56] MT Lundquist: there is a point here about due process
[2008/05/31 10:56] ThePrincess Parisi: she has a canned statement .. go on
[2008/05/31 10:56] You: In a moment Cin, let's get the Q out
[2008/05/31 10:56] MT Lundquist: that cindy didnt follow
[2008/05/31 10:56] Flyingroc Chung: cindy answered my question about the justices
[2008/05/31 10:57] MT Lundquist: does not bode well for the SC
[2008/05/31 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: she knew that was important.. its a pattern
[2008/05/31 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: its not isolated
[2008/05/31 10:57] Flyingroc Chung: and she picked the safe one :-)
[2008/05/31 10:57] You: MT, Prin, I want this to be aired, but not re-re-hashed. Are you done with stating your question?
[2008/05/31 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: she wants to give us her canned statement about it, let her
[2008/05/31 10:57] You: :)
[2008/05/31 10:57] You: Well
[2008/05/31 10:57] You: I hope I do not surprise
[2008/05/31 10:57] You: but I was going to ask about it myself
[2008/05/31 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: :)
[2008/05/31 10:58] Flyingroc Chung: sridhar, we can hear you :-)
[2008/05/31 10:58] Sridhar Shepherd: sorry
[2008/05/31 10:58] Cindy Ecksol: It's a valid question, and an important one
[2008/05/31 10:58] You: Personally I did not approve of Prin ejecting a citizen from here -- though when acting in official capacity, I have to rely on law, not "personal taste" .. but ...
[2008/05/31 10:58] You: .. I didn't like CIndy's use of a tech tool to freeze Prin any more than that.
[2008/05/31 10:59] You: So Cin, I too am very interested in your take on whether that tactic was ultimately legit in a public meeting.
[2008/05/31 10:59] You: That's all I wanted yo say. You wanted to respond?
[2008/05/31 10:59] Cindy Ecksol: ah... that's not the question I thought you were asking.
[2008/05/31 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: no shes talking about when she built walls around our land
[2008/05/31 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: cos she disagreed with the chancellor
[2008/05/31 11:00] You: ah :) sorry
[2008/05/31 11:00] Cindy Ecksol: No, Jamie, had I understood what the "freeze" would do, I would not have considered it a "proper tactic" in a public meeting.
[2008/05/31 11:00] You: Let's talk about the walls then
[2008/05/31 11:00] You: Please go ahead Cindy
[2008/05/31 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: same issue though, tell us why you wont wait for the process cindy ... same how you ran for RA without the factions apporoval
[2008/05/31 11:00] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[2008/05/31 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: three instances where you do what you want
[2008/05/31 11:00] Beathan Vale: I don't see how a citizens landscaping improvements to their property is at all relevant to their ability to competently serve on the SC
[2008/05/31 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: not what the process says
[2008/05/31 11:00] Cindy Ecksol: ok....I'm confused. are we talking about the wall or about the freeze?
[2008/05/31 11:00] You: Prin. Cindy has the floor :)
[2008/05/31 11:00] You: Walls
[2008/05/31 11:00] Cindy Ecksol: ok, walls.
[2008/05/31 11:01] MT Lundquist: not her property Beathan another citizens
[2008/05/31 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: she built a wall around what she didnt like beathean on a citizens land, even though the chancellor approved it
[2008/05/31 11:01] You: hush please
[2008/05/31 11:01] Cindy Ecksol: actually the wall was built on public property
[2008/05/31 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: cos she disagred with the chancellor
[2008/05/31 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: yes to hide a citizzens build
[2008/05/31 11:01] Cindy Ecksol: I did not do it because I disagreed with the chancellor.
[2008/05/31 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: you built on the sidewalk
[2008/05/31 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: tell us why then
[2008/05/31 11:01] Cindy Ecksol: I did it because the chancellor was refusing to act on a clear violation of the covenant.
[2008/05/31 11:01] Moon Adamant: was a waiver of the chancellor duly made public in reference to that?
[2008/05/31 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: why didnt you wait for the
[2008/05/31 11:01] You: (We are running over time but I regard this as sufficiently important to merit it. Any RA member who disagrees, feel free to call for an immediate vote.)
[2008/05/31 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: it was his opinion that
[2008/05/31 11:01] Cindy Ecksol: I did not do it on my own, I did it in conjunction with two other citizens
[2008/05/31 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: YOU DISAGREED WITH HIM !
[2008/05/31 11:01] MT Lundquist: so you did disagree with the chancellor
[2008/05/31 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: HE SAID IT WAS NOT A HOT TUB
[2008/05/31 11:02] MT Lundquist: and acted unilaterally
[2008/05/31 11:02] You: Prin. Last request. Please let her talk without interruption.
[2008/05/31 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: SO DID DNATE
[2008/05/31 11:02] You: ...
[2008/05/31 11:03] Jamie Palisades waits for Cindy's response, and then her indication that she is done.
[2008/05/31 11:03] Cindy Ecksol: I disagreed on his unwillingness to act. he told me later that he did not act because he had "more important things" to deal with and he did not think that those of us (not just me) who had brought this to his attention were "serious" about it.
[2008/05/31 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: he acted in a way you disagreed with, you lie again
[2008/05/31 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: he acted
[2008/05/31 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: you disagreed and took in your own hands
[2008/05/31 11:03] Cindy Ecksol: building the wall was a way to draw attention to the issue in a clear and humorous way. it forced the chancellor to take the issue seriously and act on it.
[2008/05/31 11:03] MT Lundquist: so you regularly act as judge jury and executioner then!!!
[2008/05/31 11:03] You: OK. Prin, MT you are out of order.
[2008/05/31 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: lol humorous to block a citizens commercial land from view of the street
[2008/05/31 11:04] ThePrincess Parisi: you all need to know the truth
[2008/05/31 11:04] You: IMs to me please cease.
[2008/05/31 11:04] You: ..
[2008/05/31 11:04] You: ..
[2008/05/31 11:04] You: ..
[2008/05/31 11:04] You: Cindy please wait.
[2008/05/31 11:04] You: Here's what I am going to do.
[2008/05/31 11:04] You: And yes I am ignoring all IMs :)
[2008/05/31 11:04] You: ALL of them (rolls eyes)
[2008/05/31 11:04] You: 1. I will move now to ask the RA to vote to sanction Prin for interrupting continually.
[2008/05/31 11:05] You: 2. I will call for immediate vote.
[2008/05/31 11:05] You: 3. We'll vote.
[2008/05/31 11:05] You: 4. I will END the meeting :) if it continues
[2008/05/31 11:05] You: 5. If we restore order I will ask Cindy to continue
[2008/05/31 11:05] You: 6. If you silly people don't get this done, she will be APPROVED by time lapse anyway :)
[2008/05/31 11:05] You: now then
[2008/05/31 11:06] You: I move that the RA sanction Princess - simply a statement of disapproval - for continued interruption of a spakder after repeating requests to come to order.
[2008/05/31 11:06] You: sorry for the typos :)
[2008/05/31 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[2008/05/31 11:06] You: Is there a second? I didn't rehearse this :)
[2008/05/31 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, I would just kindly request Princess NOT to interrupt the LRA any more
[2008/05/31 11:07] You: Just as a converstaional point, I will mention that if you do not support me on this I resign immeiately :)
[2008/05/31 11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If she disagrees with the request, I'll second the motion :)
[2008/05/31 11:07] Flyingroc Chung: sigh
[2008/05/31 11:07] Flyingroc Chung: I second
[2008/05/31 11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: :)
[2008/05/31 11:07] You: I cannot keep order without the RA's support. Not ban, not eject, not freeze - just a resolution.
[2008/05/31 11:07] You: and it is OK with me if you vote it down.
[2008/05/31 11:07] MT Lundquist: i object to blackmail mr LRA
[2008/05/31 11:07] MT Lundquist: in obtaining a second
[2008/05/31 11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, MT, you're right
[2008/05/31 11:08] You: It has been moved and seconded. Prin, I value your contributions, but not the constant rude interruptions. I hope we Can have the one without the other. Does anyone wish to speak to this motion?
[2008/05/31 11:08] Moon Adamant: blackmail?
[2008/05/31 11:08] You: No blackmail :) You can get along without me just fine.
[2008/05/31 11:08] You: Any one wish to speak to the motion?
[2008/05/31 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There are things in the Constitution referring to the "no ultimatum" rule ;)
[2008/05/31 11:08] MT Lundquist: exactly
[2008/05/31 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway
[2008/05/31 11:08] Flyingroc Chung: no gwyn, we removed that :-)
[2008/05/31 11:08] You: I would be grateful for your explanation, Gwyn, you know much more about it than me :)
[2008/05/31 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pfft. Who was the silly person who removed that??
[2008/05/31 11:08] MT Lundquist: I believe you need to withdraw the motion now on those grounds
[2008/05/31 11:09] Beathan Vale: I don't recall that being removed
[2008/05/31 11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs* if it was removed, it stays removed
[2008/05/31 11:09] You: I see that as a valid point of order. If I am acting unconstitutionally I must withdraw it :) Who can point me to that law?
[2008/05/31 11:09] ThePrincess Parisi moves that we vote
[2008/05/31 11:09] ThePrincess Parisi: vote on cindy's approveal
[2008/05/31 11:09] Beathan Vale: no JP -- your "sanction" is allowed by the RA rules
[2008/05/31 11:10] ThePrincess Parisi: sanction me, but lets vote i dont care about the sanction
[2008/05/31 11:10] ThePrincess Parisi: i thoyght the public had a right to know
[2008/05/31 11:10] Beathan Vale: it is not an ultimatum under that term of the Constituion -- which was addressed more to Ulrika's "do what I do or I will rain holy hell on the CDS and destroy all public buildings"
[2008/05/31 11:10] You: I think that if we proceed immediately to a vote on CIndy's nomination we will have acheived our purpose. If that's acceptable to everyone I would be happy to withdraw my motion, if the seconder agrees. FR?
[2008/05/31 11:10] MT Lundquist: it rather felt like an ultimatum
[2008/05/31 11:10] You: (And no, no plans vis a vis holy hell )
[2008/05/31 11:10] MT Lundquist: i resign if i dont get a second
[2008/05/31 11:10] MT Lundquist: !!!!!!
[2008/05/31 11:10] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/05/31 11:10] You: only a resignation in the face of my failure to keep order, MT
[2008/05/31 11:11] You: There's an easy way not to run into such uncomfortable issues :) all must stay in order
[2008/05/31 11:11] You: Roc? OK with you if I withdraw my motion? You were the seconder
[2008/05/31 11:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I'm for going straightforward into the vote of confidence on Cindy's nomination.
[2008/05/31 11:11] MT Lundquist: then withdraw the motion and ask
[2008/05/31 11:11] Flyingroc Chung: in any case the constitutional ban on ultimatums does not apply to jamie, even if it were still there
[2008/05/31 11:11] Flyingroc Chung: "Citizens are may not issue departure ultimatums to members of the government. In return the government will not issue discharge ultimatums to citizens."
[2008/05/31 11:11] Cindy Ecksol: :-)
[2008/05/31 11:12] Beathan Vale: FR -- yes
[2008/05/31 11:12] Flyingroc Chung: I'm ok with the motion's withdrawal
[2008/05/31 11:12] Beathan Vale: and internal RA sanctions are not "departure orders" -- and are specifically allowed by RA rules
[2008/05/31 11:12] Beathan Vale: although, to sanction an RA member requires an RA vote
[2008/05/31 11:12] You: OK I take that as a yes :) But I warn you all that if you always will avoid acting formally to sanction, we will not be able to maintain order under strained circumstances
[2008/05/31 11:12] MT Lundquist: but an ultimatum is
[2008/05/31 11:12] MT Lundquist: even in RA
[2008/05/31 11:13] You: MT, while I do not see the constitutional rule as applying here - even with Gwyn's hint to the contrary, basd on my own reading of it - it will be moot if I withdraw it :)
[2008/05/31 11:13] Flyingroc Chung: BTW, this is actualy a fairly big problem, the two versions of the constitution are not in sync anymore
[2008/05/31 11:13] You: so I'd suggest we not try to beat that issue into shape, shrug
[2008/05/31 11:13] You: Roc - later please?
[2008/05/31 11:13] Flyingroc Chung: sure :-)
[2008/05/31 11:14] You: I withdraw my motion, and ask for an immediate vote on CIndy's confirmation without further debate.
[2008/05/31 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: on behalf of the nuCARE faction we vote NO NO NO Cindy is not suited for SC, not in her ability to care what is best for CDS and to follow procedure.
[2008/05/31 11:14] You: Members please state their vote. I abstain.
[2008/05/31 11:14] MT Lundquist: nay
[2008/05/31 11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I vote aye.
[2008/05/31 11:14] Flyingroc Chung: aye
[2008/05/31 11:14] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/05/31 11:15] You: Let's see - that's 3-2-1 and no BV vote.
[2008/05/31 11:15] Beathan Vale: this is a tough one for me -- I am not sure what to make of the allegations and I am concerned about the "freeze" and the walls ...
[2008/05/31 11:15] Cindy Ecksol thinks that "debate" was cut off too early
[2008/05/31 11:16] Beathan Vale: but, I vote aye -- with an asterix ...
[2008/05/31 11:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We all do mistakes, beathan. Some citizens here remember when I returned *all scripted objects* in NFS once by a silly mistake
[2008/05/31 11:16] Beathan Vale: I expect better behavior from a sitting SC member
[2008/05/31 11:16] Moon Adamant: so it's passed, Mr. LRA
[2008/05/31 11:16] Beathan Vale: brb
[2008/05/31 11:16] MT Lundquist: mistakes are one thing, delibrate acts another
[2008/05/31 11:16] You: Cindy, you are confirmed, 4-2-1. And I agree that debate was cut off, but I was unable to keep order any better than that, for which I apolgize.
[2008/05/31 11:16] Justice Soothsayer looks around for the asterisk he frequently wears
[2008/05/31 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: barely.
[2008/05/31 11:16] Cindy Ecksol: thank you all.
[2008/05/31 11:16] Moon Adamant: Congratulations Cindy :)
[2008/05/31 11:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Congrats :)
[2008/05/31 11:16] You: Congratulations and best of luck.
[2008/05/31 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: pathetic really
[2008/05/31 11:16] Justice Soothsayer: Congrats, Cindy.
[2008/05/31 11:17] Rose Springvale: congratulations cindy
[2008/05/31 11:17] Cindy Ecksol: thanks
[2008/05/31 11:17] You: and we are - heh - a little behind on our agenda
----
[2008/05/31 11:17] You: ladies and gentlemen: we have a choice
[2008/05/31 11:17] MT Lundquist: this is not a good day for CDS
[2008/05/31 11:17] Rose Springvale: sighs
[2008/05/31 11:17] You: next item would be 2 Commerce Commission ... but Sim4 also is an issue with a deadline
[2008/05/31 11:18] You: even more so that item 2 GMP
[2008/05/31 11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I had a comment, but I'll withdraw my request to comment for the sake of expediency
[2008/05/31 11:18] Moon Adamant: i'll have to leave in about 40 minutes time
[2008/05/31 11:18] Moon Adamant: i am sorry
[2008/05/31 11:19] You: so I suggest we consider taking up Sim4 (agenda item 3) next because that's the one with the most people and money riding on it imminnently. I am proposing to put GMP after Sim4. Moon, would that make more sense to the Guild's needs?
[2008/05/31 11:19] You: or do we need to act on GMP first?
[2008/05/31 11:19] Moon Adamant: no, it's perfect ok
[2008/05/31 11:19] You: ok
[2008/05/31 11:19] Moon Adamant: i can start with CN-West
----
[2008/05/31 11:19] You: item 3 then
[2008/05/31 11:20] You: yes please
[continued in next post]