Fifth Electoral Commission Meeting: Sat, Nov 1, 9 AM SLT

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Gwyneth Llewelyn
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Fifth Electoral Commission Meeting: Sat, Nov 1, 9 AM SLT

Post by Gwyneth Llewelyn »

Hi all,

The Electoral Commission has sort of been postponed so often (mostly because we have now so many lovely events in the CDS!) but I'm pushing for it to meet again. The idea is to get the final discussion going ahead and publish a document with conclusions by the end of November!

We still have the following topics to discuss:

  • Discussion: No more ranking of factions (or: "How a Software Bug On The Very First Voting Booth Turned Into Law")

  • Discussion: Independents getting elected for the RA (outside the faction system)

  • Discussion: A mixed model of local representatives from each sim and globally-elected representatives sitting at the RA

I would like to try to discuss all the above on next Saturday, November 1st, starting at 9 AM SLT!

Last edited by Gwyneth Llewelyn on Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: minor grammar errors

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Rose Springvale
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Re: Fifth Electoral Commission Meeting: Sat, Nov 1, 9 AM SLT

Post by Rose Springvale »

Bumping this to the top. Location Gwyneth?

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Desmond Shang
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Re: Fifth Electoral Commission Meeting: Sat, Nov 1, 9 AM SLT

Post by Desmond Shang »

MIght I add:

4. "Election-buying sponsored by Shadowy Agents of Foreign Micronations, and You: How to cut the Best Deal!"

I won't be there of course, but look for a man sporting Caledon-tartan cufflinks, minding his own business in a nearby alleyway.

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Re: Fifth Electoral Commission Meeting: Sat, Nov 1, 9 AM SLT

Post by Claude Desmoulins »

Unfortunately I'll be unable to attend the meeting tomorrow, so I have to post a couple of thoughts here.

1. If one allows 2 ( independent candidates) it necessitates 1 ( voting in some way other than ranking factions)

2. While the agenda mentions the possibility of mixed local and global representation, a mixed model could just as easily mix seats elected proportionally (using the current system) with seats filled by individuals . A model for something like this is the German system, which elects half the seats in the Bundestag via a Proportional Representation system among parties, and the other half in single seat - first past the post constituencies.

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Re: Fifth Electoral Commission Meeting: Sat, Nov 1, 9 AM SLT

Post by Gwyneth Llewelyn »

Thanks for the suggestions, Claude!

Location should be the Praetorium in Colonia Nova.

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Re: Fifth Electoral Commission Meeting: Sat, Nov 1, 9 AM SLT

Post by Gwyneth Llewelyn »

Ouch... my deep apologies for anyone who was around :( I thought the US would change the hour back to be in sync with the rest of the world this Saturday; it is on this Saturday indeed, but not for the next 16 hours or so!

So I'm truly sorry :( This has to get postponed until next week I guess...

"I'm not building a game. I'm building a new country."
  -- Philip "Linden" Rosedale, interview to Wired, 2004-05-08

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Jamie Palisades
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Factions: remind me why?

Post by Jamie Palisades »

Just carrying over to this thread my faction rant, from http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... 574#p12574
... and continued below, in case we ever take up election law issues again.

Our main reason, I think, for the minimum-faction-size change was that our bizarre poll arithmetic system -- which sounds more like an ersatz ice cream brand than a social technology --- favored by our FIC and enshrined in our law, makes it *very* easy for a small faction to elect one RA member. So much so that if the roughly 80 voters of CDS were distributed as follows:
50 - DPU
5 - CSDF
5 - Simplicitly
5 - NuCare
5 - Social NonDemocrats *
5 - NonSocial Democrats *
5 - Return Ulrika To The Throne *

... there's a fairly good chance that, if there were no minimum faction size, the resulting RA would be really absurdly skewed in favor of the minorities, something like maybe 2 DPU and 1 from 5 of the other 6. How silly.
* * *
Why the current RA perpetuates the HaagenDasz system evades me. It seems to embrace the worst of parliamentary complexity, in its love of minority parties and thwarting of any majority.
If RA members actually voted along faction lines, I suppose I'd be concerned about it.
In fact, the policy differences between factions seem, in CDS, to be so little reflected in action that it matters little.

As I said, above, it's not a hot button issue, as party line voting seems not to influence much in CDS, other than contested Chancellor elections.

In the abstract, though, it's a system in which I can see little virtue. As it is, factions just deny to voters the right to pick their elected reps. Instead we give to factions that power -- they can run and win on a popular person's reputation, and then substitute them by faction act, even for a despised, immature or destructive person, if they wish. I'll likely never really understand it. There was an Elections Commission looking into it, at one point, but it was mostly composed of people invested in the old system so far as I can tell.

By the way, personally, I find the individual contributions of all of our current RA members to be positive and admirable, regardless of faction activity. Nothing wrong with the people. Just a Byzantine system that ensures voters can't directly choose which ones serve, thus avoiding the feared "popularity" system by embracing a worse, "elitists pick their buddies in secret" one.

And time in CDS and SL is precious. Volunteer time. Every hour spent in faction shenanigans is NOT spent in a building workgroup, a Guild, a project, or creating things for and with CDS.

So: if we were designing from scratch: why factions?

== My Second Life home is CDS. Retired after three terms
== as chancellor of the oldest self-governing sims in SL.
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Re: Factions: remind me why?

Post by Timo Gufler »

Jamie Palisades wrote:

In the abstract, though, it's a system in which I can see little virtue. As it is, factions just deny to voters the right to pick their elected reps. Instead we give to factions that power -- they can run and win on a popular person's reputation, and then substitute them by faction act, even for a despised, immature or destructive person, if they wish. I'll likely never really understand it. There was an Elections Commission looking into it, at one point, but it was mostly composed of people invested in the old system so far as I can tell.

By the way, personally, I find the individual contributions of all of our current RA members to be positive and admirable, regardless of faction activity. Nothing wrong with the people. Just a Byzantine system that ensures voters can't directly choose which ones serve, thus avoiding the feared "popularity" system by embracing a worse, "elitists pick their buddies in secret" one.

I am not very familiar with the CDS voting system but it sounds like the voting system variant been used is so called closed list system where voters vote only for parties and the parties make decision who gets to the representative assembly. Another alternative to abandoning the whole idea of parties is to have open list voting, used at least in Finland (and my impression is that people are quite happy with it even if the current culture minister is former Miss Finland... :wink: ), where the parties define its candidates people can vote for. Total number of votes per party defines how many seats party gets in the parliament and the seats of the party are filled according to the proportional amount of votes the candidates get inside the party. For more information (in clearer language than I am able to produce) can be found, for example, in Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_list

There are probably many people here who are more familiar with the different voting systems than me but I just wanted to remind about this possibility if not discussed before...

Hehe, must say that when I joined Second Life, I never thought I would found myself as a member of political party. :) Still, by this far, it has been more an exciting than a negative experience.

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