Land Sales Listing Improvement Act 2008 [draft]

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Jamie Palisades
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Land Sales Listing Improvement Act 2008 [draft]

Post by Jamie Palisades »

Land Sales Listing Improvement Act 2008 [draft]

1. Land sales in CDS of land owned by the government are conducted by the CDS Executive Branch, using such methods as are reasonably expected to promote the Confederation's interests, consistent with our laws.
.
2. Land sales in CDS owned by a citizen are initiated by the citizen, and facilitated and supervised by the CDS Executive Branch. Any land transfer of any kind by any citizen requires notification to the Treasurer of CDS per NL 4-3. [http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=144]

3. CDS sim estate settings currently permit "direct" land sales by citizens using the Second Life software map "for sale" listings (commonly known as the yellow map parcel methods). The Executive Branch is hereby authorized to disable that direct sale function, and cause all all future land sales by citizens to be possible only through a central, government-owned listing system, as soon as each of the following requirements are met:

a. The Executive Branch has provided for a central listing method that advertises the availability of all available parcels, with reasonable timeliness and ease of access, and posts them, at least, in conspicuous in-world devices in two CDS sims, and on the Web.

b. The Executive Branch has delivered to the RA by posting to the CDS Forums a certificate indicating that the foregoing system is in place, and describing it.

c. This law repeals any provisions of prior CDS laws that specify land sale methods, to the extent that they contradict the explicit terms of this law.

3. Once the foregoing new system is in place, the Executive Branch also will use it to list CDS-owned parcels for sale.

== My Second Life home is CDS. Retired after three terms
== as chancellor of the oldest self-governing sims in SL.
Justice Soothsayer
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Re: Land Sales Listing Improvement Act 2008 [draft]

Post by Justice Soothsayer »

Any ideas of what it might cost for a new land management system?

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Timo Gufler
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Re: Land Sales Listing Improvement Act 2008 [draft]

Post by Timo Gufler »

Currently the standard way in SL to check what land areas are for sale is to view the yellow areas on the map. "Standard way" here means the way people have got used to look for land. If we are going to break the standard then the new system should be very usable and intuitive for both novice and experienced SL users. I propose that different implementations of others are compared and if any of them seems to be good enough to replace the standard we try to make something similar. Otherwise we should stay on the old and good land sales system. Blindly reinventing a wheel doesn't sound smart option here...

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Patroklus Murakami
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Re: Land Sales Listing Improvement Act 2008 [draft]

Post by Patroklus Murakami »

It would be great to have land sales available on our website. That would make CDS land sales as accessible as, say Azure Islands or Dreamland. We could even advertise to drive sales traffic.

An inworld map and sales system would be pretty cool too. I don't entirely understand what the problem is with the standard Linden-provided system though. Why would it help to take away a system that SL residents are already familiar with?

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Re: Land Sales Listing Improvement Act 2008 [draft]

Post by Timo Gufler »

It would be indeed a great improvement to have a web-based interface to the land sales. If we are going to have it in parallel to the standard system there will be a challenge of synchronizing them. LSL scripts seem not to have access to land sales information (I guess it was removed by LL to make it impossible to write landbots). Having a land sales system separate from the standard one would solve the synchronization problem but change the interface people are familiar with, as Patroklus said. Even if LSL API doesn't provide access to the data it could be still possible by using an unofficial technology called libsecondlife...

I am not against disabling the old system but just worried of the consequences... :)

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symokurka
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Re: Land Sales Listing Improvement Act 2008 [draft]

Post by symokurka »

Oldies' style cheap solution:

- a nice multi vendor in world (one per sim) that shows snapshot of parcels for sale and gives a notecard with land info and a nice landmark
- one "land vendor responsible" for each Sim (volunteer ofcourse :P ), with the specific task of updating manually the said vendor once per week

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Re: Land Sales Listing Improvement Act 2008 [draft]

Post by Ranma Tardis »

Wonder if there is another motive behind removing the current system of land sales? The yellow squares does show at a glance the available land for sale and perhaps make certain people uncomfortable. Some sims has a lot of yellow in them ;)
About Dreamland, I have never wanted to live there. It is the same as the mainland in most aspects. The CDS is an attempt at doing better; we need to remember quality first before size.
About going back to the old system, it will require someone to update it daily. People will get disappointed when they discover a lot on the list has been sold. It stops the positive method of lot payment. Lot sellers can adjust the sales price freely. Lastly the lot transfer process would be a manual one requiring an estate manager to do this. It will take up their time with this chore. How much time does a land sale require? The offer has to be made and accepted. Then the payment needs to be mad and verified and lastly the transfer made. This may take a few days, now the buyer makes payment and takes possession. They may move in right away.

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Re: Land Sales Listing Improvement Act 2008 [draft]

Post by Rose Springvale »

I'm in favor of this draft for several reasons.
!. We've shown a lot of property for sale in Colonia nova for months now that effectively was not for sale. When land is listed at 10 times* the price that was paid for it when land sales were healthy in a time when land sales are less so, the motive for "listing" has to be questioned. In this case, my personal belief is that the pricing was used to make CDS look like a fire sale due to the bad feelings certain sellers had. I don't need to go into details; but frankly, our city has been held hostage for several months. As PIO, i receive many of the inquiries about land for sale, and i can assure you there have been many people interested in the land, just not interested at that price.
(* as the immediate prior owner of the land, i know what the sales price was when purchased)

2. CDS is not mainland. Nor is it just another covenanted estate. By far our best asset is our community, and you can't see that from a direct sale system. In many cases, if someone wants land in the sims and what they are looking for is not for sale, there are people in the sims who are more aware of the status of neighbors and may be able to make recommendations. Necessary? of course not. But it is community that matters.

3. When I am approached by potential new citizens, i try to treat them the way i like to be treated when moving to a new community in rl.. .show them the estate as a whole, then show them property in each sim. I ask them to read the covenants. Then if there are issues, no one can say .. i didn't know. And it is easier for your goverment officials to go to the new resident who steps outside the lines, and remind them of the covenant.. which in all cases of my experience, have resulted in immediate and friendly compliance. Contrast this with the direct buyer who on occasion tells us, when advised that tier is due on the parcel, "oh, it's another money scheme!" or worse, simply decide not to pay. In which case they effectively "live" free in the sims until the reclamation act is fulfilled. In any other sim, one day late on tier means your prims are returned, the land reclaimed and available for resell. If we want to have a foreclosure system that ties the rest of us to paying tier for those in default, which is truly what our system does, then we are entitled to some assurance that the defaulting parties have at least been advised that they have a financial obligation. I'd rather spend our money on things that can benefit the CDS than on making up the tier for people who just choose not to pay thier bills.

4. As far as motives for removing the yellow land map is concerned, i'm not following you. I don't believe that people with land in the roman sims are interested in remaking them into alpine sims. Since it's been noted that the land for sale in Colonia Nova was all (with the exception only of Pat's land, who simply moved from CN to LA) "NuCare" land, then perhaps the motive you need to understand does not rest with the people that are resident and active in CDS. If you need to see the historical breakdown of relationships with members of NuCare who sold,or listed at exhorbitant prices, you need only read RA transcripts for the prior term. Given that the main proponents of the second roman sim have also disappeared, people who assured the RA that there were many who wanted to move into a high density residential sim, i think CDS should be commended for how much we HAVE sold. And i would commend the New Guild for finding a layout of Locus Amoenus that lends itself to flexible combination of parcels, so people who don't want to be that "densely" populated can buy land that lets them have the space and prims they want. Of the 42 parcels ( 27 512 m lots, and 15 1024m lots) there remain SIX 512 m lots and FOUR 1024 m. That means over 75% of the sim has sold.

But we think we can do more, and better. And i'd rather spend a few more days up front with someone so that they feel good about where they are moving into, and maybe bring THEIR friends along, than have angry citizens who thought they were getting a deal spreading venom across the grid when they realize there are obligations that go with the land.

3.

Ranma Tardis

Re: Land Sales Listing Improvement Act 2008 [draft]

Post by Ranma Tardis »

You can do better that point the finger at me *frowns*
Not all of the empty not for sale land is owned by citizens. I will do a survey tonight and get real numbers. Fiance and math are my thing and the numbers should be revealing.
Part of the problem is the large size of the lots and the cds is the most expensive tier in second life.
I will post another message after my survey complete with numbers.
Please note I have not been finger pointing then or now.

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Jamie Palisades
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Re: Land Sales Listing Improvement Act 2008 [draft]

Post by Jamie Palisades »

This is all great feedback, so far, on the concept of sales listings and displays. Not so much on the text of the draft legislation, but that's OK. First the citizens and RA need to decide what they want to *do* :) I've made my suggestion in the form of a bill.

I also look forward to seeing Ranma's numbers. Great to get more eyes on this. We might eventually move THAT thread over to the "land & planning" board, though, instead of this legislative drafting thread. Regards JP

== My Second Life home is CDS. Retired after three terms
== as chancellor of the oldest self-governing sims in SL.
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Re: Land Sales Listing Improvement Act 2008 [draft]

Post by Ranma Tardis »

I seemed to place my reply in the wrong thread! *crossed eyed confusion*
Here is the thread!
http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2224

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Re: Land Sales Listing Improvement Act 2008 [draft]

Post by Justice Soothsayer »

This bill was adopted by the RA at the meeting of 4 January 2009.

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