question to RA & Treasury

[Ranma Tardis]

I did a lot of looking around and reading and found the following,
Regular Assembly Transcript 09-November-2008, taken from transcript

Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we pay a little less than L$6/prim
Gwyneth Llewelyn: "we" as in: "the citizens"
Arria Perreault: but we get more than 980 US$ ...
Moon Adamant: yes, but that's healthy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, yes, of course,
Arria Perreault: from citizen fees
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I should have said: "each citizen's contribution to pure tier costs is L$6/prim"
Sudane Erato: yes
Arria Perreault: we have to base the price not on the LL price, but on maximal fee from citizen
Symo Kurka: we all prefer an active budget
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You're right, Arria.
Moon Adamant: hmmmm Arria
Symo Kurka: it allows investments for the future
Moon Adamant: i think it would be interesting to study an uniformization of tier
Arria Perreault: it's more: 10L$ maybe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: My point was just hmm... allegedly, mainland sims are at L$2/prim (cost)

Ok an answer to my question, took me hours of reading but found it. I do not have a clue why it could not be answered. It is found in Public record!My tier is 2504 or 4.89 lindens per square meter. I can only guess that the amount was lowered. So the amount we pay per square meter is the same no matter which sim we have land? It is a bit unfair to the land owners of Neufreistadt and Colonia Nova which run on older servers (class 3) get charged the same as those in Alpine Meadows and Locus Amoenus which run on class 4?? sims. Desmond Shang *goes anime eyed!* always adjusted the rent to the class server and tier charged by Linden Labs. I live in Alpine Meadows and probably should complain less but I am in running for the RA and have to focus on the residents concerns over my own.
So why does the government have to be so secretive and invoke the privacy act when it is clearly out of place. Did you know I have been with the federal government over 20 years and know all about fiscal law, the ADA (Anti Deficiency Act) and PTA (purpose time and amount). Why could you not answer, "Ranma, all of the land owners pay the same amount per square meter" instead of playing your silly games.
Am I correct? Please answer my simple question. Did you know that Desmond Shang *goes anime eyed* would answer this and Caledon is not a democracy!I expect more from my elected and appointed officials!!!

[Brian Livingston]

Ranma:

Tiers are not set at a flat rate across the CDS, but vary depending on the zoning of the plot. Prices were set with region and plot-specific characteristics taken into account. I just did a quick search based on posts made by Sudane and came up with the following post: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?p=11397#p11397

Of particular interest:

As for tier, this is a more significant issue, since it affects us month by month for the rest of our existence, while land sale, from the point of view of the city, is one time. Here is a survey of what we charge on our other sims:

Neufreistadt (IF we were double primmed... these numbers are twice what they actually are) L$ 3.422 - 6.018 per square meter
Colonia Nova ( IF we were double primmed) L$ 4.130 - 5.782
Alpine Meadows (AM IS double primmed) L$ 4.956

I propose that we charge L$ 4.35 per square meter for land in the new sim. If the sim is fully occupied, this will result in monthly revenues of US$442, which is a margin of $157 over the required LL tier...

Now, the figures for NFS and CN listed above were doubled for demonstrative purposes for that post, so the true range for NFS should be L$ 1.71 - 3.009 per sq. meter; CN's range is from L$ 2.065 - 2.891, based off those figures.

Hope that helps answer your questions a bit.

Happy Holidays!

--Brian

[Sonja Strom]

I am not in the RA or Treasury, but one thread where you might find more information on this is here: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2210
It is titled "Fees based on prims."

[Ranma Tardis]

We pay for "double prims" but only receive the single prims. The other part is supporting the public lands that not only benifit ourselves, our community but anyone is second life that would care to visit us. In SL there is no need to actually own land and if a resident would want to "hang out" in the CDS we would all welcome the person. I would like to thing we (cds community) are aspiring to be better people and learning about ourselves though others.
Oh about Al Andalus would love to visit there but it is bound to bring up issues with my PTSD. Perhaps someday I will be able to enjoy visiting such a sim but want to give it some more time. Healing takes time and hope the community will give me a little understanding.

[Rose Springvale]

No, you don't pay for double prims and get single prims. All you need to do to find the prim cost per parcel is divide the square meters by the tier listed in the completely thorough chart. You pay for double prims in AM because all parcels in AM are double prim. I pay for single prims in CN because all parcels are single prims. When i wanted more prims, i bought more land.

Not sure why Caledon is of issue in this thread, but older Caledon sims are single prim, and have lower tiers per prim. Newer Caledon sims are double prim and the tier in proportionately higher.

CN and NFS are both Class 4 servers, and AM and LA are class 5.

Al Andalus represents a historical community in Spain.

[Ranma Tardis]

You said it as well I as could. We have double prims in Alpine Meadows?? honto yo?
Checks lot carefully................... I never notice this before and had gotten use to the larger sized lots. Been some time since my last 512!
Looks like a better buy for my money now
Still do not know why my simple answer was not just answered and why got a backlash from elements in the community.
Al Andalus is a historical country from the middle ages. I am not a big fan of this time frame anywhere in the world and while it is in Spain, it would remind me too much of Iraq with their towers, walls, building styles. I went there once and while nicely built it is just not for me. Certain things are nice by themselves but "clash" with each other if in the same room. It is like having a new computer desk place in a room full of 18th century antiques.
Why Caledon? because it does what the cds is suppose to do. Sure is easier to get a straight answer from them and I like things made Simple *grins*. This is more complex than my Income Tax returns

[Rose Springvale]

I wouldn't want to live under the constraints of ancient rome either, but i love the architecture.

It might interest you to know that the origianal Andalucians were from Germany.

[Ranma Tardis]

Houston, we have a problem. I have been checking over the Neuf map and lot list. I am still missing the location 12 lots an the owners names. It seems that the first sim holders are paying just about twice their tier to Linden Labs. My figure is $329.26 American but am missing lots. Looks like lots HLS 1850, P185 and P195 are awaiting sale with a lot of sale of $45.48 American.
Alpine Meadows comes in with $464.47 and it is full. La would yield only $387.43 if full and it is not full. Colonia Nova would yield $434.42 if full but it has empty lots. This is a total of 1524.28 and I need to take money for empty lots in LA, CN and Neuf. Your numbers and mine are close but what is troubling is why we are collecting 50 percent more in tier than payments. The ratio is too high!
Even the oil companies do not make this percentage of profit margin! We are suppose to be by and for the citizens of the CDS.
Oh one last item..............Did we pay our income tax to the government of the United States? Did we file any paperwork? *looks innocent* All income is earned within the United States since Lindens Labs is an American Company with it major assets located within the United States and all transactions in the end are in American Dollars. Wonder if the IRS has determined this yet?????????????????
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/internati ... 34,00.html

[Rose Springvale]

please see my reply,here: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2108

from Houston

[Sonja Strom]

Ranma, I am not sure about any of the issues you raised above, except maybe I can help to clarify those about U.S. taxes.

My understanding of the Confederation of Democratic Sims is, it is not an incorporated business or private institution, and it is not making a profit in the way that such an RL entity could be. Rather, the CDS is a kind of cooperative within Second Life that simply has reserves it can use to ensure stability over time and to make purchases here and there for the benefit of its members (the CDS citizens) - for example, an occasional purchase of a new sim for the community. The CDS is not taking any money out of SL in order to do something else with it. A similar example of such a status for tax purposes might be an amateur football team collecting dues from its members to rent field time, pay insurance premiums, purchase jerseys and other equipment, and maintain a reserve in case of unforeseen circumstances.

So far as I know the CDS is not in any way located in the United States, but probably somewhere in there every time the CDS purchases services from Linden Lab some taxes are indeed paid to the United States government, if perhaps they are being paid by Linden Lab (which is headquartered in San Francisco) rather than by the CDS (which is headquartered in Neufreistadt and Colonia Nova). As you have pointed out most of the Linden Lab servers are located in the United States, but some of them are in Britain. Probably some minor amount of CDS taxes are also making their way to the Queen of England. A majority of the CDS citizens are not US citizens or US residents.

My understanding of how US income taxes work in relation to Second Life is, they are based on the amount of profit that is taken out of SL after expenses. A US citizen can earn a lot of L$, and if those earnings are kept in the game they are not taxable, much like poker chips. It is only when the earnings are removed from the game to the benefit of a US citizen (or business or other legal entity) that they need to be reported to the IRS. Even then I believe there is a set amount that can be earned before having to declare it as profit, something like US$500 per year. The CDS does not remove money from SL as profit, so the only place this tax regulation would apply is when the CDS pays individuals who are US citizens, and then they must be responsible for reporting their income if necessary. However, nearly everybody who does anything for or in the CDS is either a volunteer or is only paid at a very minimal level, so I can't imagine very many will reach the US$500 threshold from CDS payments.

All this considered, I believe the CDS is in legal compliance and is not required to pay income tax to the government of the United States.

[Ranma Tardis]

The only threat to the CDS would be Linden Labs itself. As an American I have a limited trust these days in American corps. My father worked for US Air for 32 years and in the not long ago they stopped paying his pension (took away his health plan as well) the President and CEO of US Airways received millions of dollars in a bonus, go figure.
After my review things seem to be proper and it was a good mental exercise for me. Government accounting is a bit different than corporate. I have not seen a lot of this stuff since my college years.
So we just have to keep hoping that Linden Labs does not close. Since all of the money is (in the game) and Lindens are not money.
Thank You Sonja Strom for confirming my findings late last night. Wish we had a way to protect the CDS Linden balance but that part is above my pay grade. I was looking for a way to stimulate my brain. I am suppose to try and think in new ways to create new neural pathways or something. It seems to have been an overall success

[Sonja Strom]

Ranma, I am very sorry to hear about what happened with your father. I have heard a lot of stories like that from others too, many of them very sad. It is unbelievable to me how companies will suddenly walk away from employees who have dedicated their lives to them. It is also unbelievable to me how companies that are having serious enough financial problems they can no longer honor their agreements find it possible at the same time to grandly increase the salaries of their top executives. Although I have nothing against anybody making money (I rather like money myself), it seems like there is a structural flaw somewhere creating more hardship for people than is necessary. In my view, creation of wealth is only truly honest if it benefits everybody who helps out ("a rising tide lifts all boats").

I am also very sorry you had some horrific experiences in Iraq. Everybody I know in my life is concerned about this situation in RL. At least you are away from it now. I am glad you chose to return to our little community of the CDS, and I hope it can be enjoyable for you.