RA Meeting 8th February TRANSCRIPT

[symokurka]

Meeting on 2009-02-08 at 08:38
Those present:
Symo Kurka is in the chair.08:38
Symo Kurka: messaggio di prova messaggio di prova08:51
Symo Kurka: Lol08:51
Symo Kurka: Hi Justice08:51
Symo Kurka: not from this RA..08:51
Symo Kurka: just to start gettin used to it08:51
Symo Kurka: and it will be SHARED08:51
Symo Kurka: so anybody who wants to make a presentation will be able to..
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.08:55
Symo Kurka: Tough job Justice....:)08:57
Justice Soothsayer: hi Lilith08:58
Symo Kurka: hello evrybody08:58
Symo Kurka: Hi lilith09:00
Symo Kurka: Thanks for coming Lilith...09:00
Symo Kurka: Hello Sonja09:01
Justice Soothsayer: hi Sonja09:01
Symo Kurka: Hello Ms Erato09:01
Justice Soothsayer: g'morning all
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.09:02
Symo Kurka: Not yet Sudane, just get used to the screen presence...09:03
Justice Soothsayer: not THOSE kinds of movies, Sudane09:03
Sonja Strom: hehe09:04
Sonja Strom: The kids ;-)09:04
Sonja Strom: hehee09:06
Symo Kurka: All welcome on board, can we start?09:06
Symo Kurka: Friends, citizens, guests of the CDS09:06
Symo Kurka: Welcome to RA.09:07
Symo Kurka: Please touch the recorder under the table to indicate your consent to recording.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Lilith Ivory has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.09:07
Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*09:07
Symo Kurka: Moon, Cindy, Soro, Pip...09:08
Lilith Ivory: hehe yw moon
Soro Dagostino has indicated consent to be recorded.09:08
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol today is really impossible... :)09:08
Sonja Strom: Hi Timo!09:08
Symo Kurka: Some place on my left wing09:08
Lilith Ivory: np09:08
Lilith Ivory: hi Timo09:08
Sudane Erato: hi :)09:09
Symo Kurka: Please evrybody touch the recorder under the table to indicate your consent to recording.
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Timo Gufler has indicated consent to be recorded.
Pip Torok has indicated consent to be recorded.09:09
Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm, the recorder thinks I am you Symo.
Cindy Ecksol has indicated consent to be recorded.09:09
Lilith Ivory: does the recorder tells me that I touched it?09:09
Symo Kurka: just a mom checking the recorder guys09:10
Timo Gufler: hi Solomon09:10
Moon Adamant: if you click twice, yes09:10
Cindy Ecksol: no, soro it's NAME is notetaker 2.0.1 Symo :-)09:10
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No LIlith, although if you touch it twice, it gives an error...09:10
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha09:10
Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles09:10
Lilith Ivory: ah ok - I?m never sure if I managed it to touch it correctly09:10
Sonja Strom: lol me either09:10
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe indeed09:10
Cindy Ecksol: if you right-click and touch it will tell you that you signed in...09:11
Lilith Ivory: ah ok :)09:11
Symo Kurka: Sorry guys touch agin the recorder please
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Lilith Ivory has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Pip Torok has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
Soro Dagostino has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Symo Kurka: Ok
Cindy Ecksol has indicated consent to be recorded.
Symo Kurka: Members of RA,
Symo Kurka: you can see today's agenda in
http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2325
Symo Kurka: and I ask you, is the proposed agenda acceptable?
Symo Kurka looks around
Cindy Ecksol: no objections here
Pip Torok: none here
Justice Soothsayer: ok here
Symo Kurka: Gwyn, Sonja'
Symo Kurka: *?
Symo Kurka: Friends, citizens,
Symo Kurka: anyone who wants to sign up to speak on any of the agenda items?
Sonja Strom: no objection to the agenda
Moon Adamant: i do, just in case
Patroklus Murakami: me too, just in case
Symo Kurka: Moon.. Pat.. anybody else?
Symo Kurka: d) About next RA timing,
Soro Dagostino: Point of order?
Symo Kurka: Soro?
Symo Kurka: ...
Soro Dagostino: When you ask that we state that we want to speak to agenda matters?
Soro Dagostino: Do you mean we must now or hold our peace?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Technically, RA members can talk on *any* agenda items; it's just citizens that ought to register first ...
Symo Kurka: point c) og ITEM I
Symo Kurka: adm stuff
Symo Kurka: lol ok rthanks Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: don't mention it
Soro Dagostino: Sorry -- I am just a newbie.
Symo Kurka: me too Soro...
Symo Kurka: About next RA timing, I asked Sonja to help me (and help you..)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aww that's fine, Soro, and you are NOT
Symo Kurka: monitoring your average sunday availabilities with a poll .
Justice Soothsayer: Symo, maybe it would help if we voted officially to re-adopt the last RA's rules that govern such things as speaking order; of course, they are still in effect unless changed, I think.
Symo Kurka: If there is any result I ask sonja to share it with all RA AFTER this meeting.
Symo Kurka: they are still in effect ,
Symo Kurka: limiyed by wxperience,
Symo Kurka: *limited
Symo Kurka: and if you avoid interrupting it's better
Symo Kurka: If there is not any result, or we did not get enough answers, we'll repeat the poll in the next days, and in THE MEANWHILE next RA will take place on 15th february, same time as today.
Sonja Strom raises hand
Symo Kurka: Just to know Sonja, how many answers did you get?
Symo Kurka: yes Sonja..
Sonja Strom: Everybody has responded except you, Symo
Cindy Ecksol: lol!!!
Symo Kurka: LOL
Justice Soothsayer: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
Moon Adamant:
Sonja Strom: lol!
Symo Kurka: Great
Symo Kurka: thks
Pip Torok: hehe
Soro Dagostino: Heh!
Symo Kurka: we'll talk about it at the end ok?
Sonja Strom: ok
ymo Kurka blushes
Moon Adamant:
Justice Soothsayer: can we talk about it now? not sure I can make it to the end.
Symo Kurka: The next item on our agenda is a quick slot i asked for me.
Symo Kurka: Justicde
Symo Kurka: please
Symo Kurka: you know very well that discussing on tinming here would keep us busy foe two hours
Justice Soothsayer: Symo, not to be hypertechnical, but this was the time on the agenda where we were suppposed to decide on the next meeting.
Symo Kurka: so my answer is NO
Symo Kurka: we'll discuss it apart from RA
Justice Soothsayer: I'm OK with Feb 15th at 9 am, FWIW
Symo Kurka: The next item
Symo Kurka: Is
Symo Kurka: When we wonder
Symo Kurka: Should we open new sims? should we not?
Symo Kurka: I've read in programs and platforms much concern about the economic situation and request of prudence in developing new sims.
Symo Kurka: I obviously share concerns.
But
Symo Kurka: Concerns, and fears based on rumors are not in our style, are they.
Symo Kurka: We need more rationals to sustain our choices.
Symo Kurka: We need informations, data and comments both on SL economy and on CDS economy.
Symo Kurka: We need a permanent monitoring of trends, if we want to share decisions not based on fears or rumors but based on reasonable analysyis.
Symo Kurka: I personally feel a strong need for all that, and I therefore request our Treasurer
Symo Kurka: AND whoever wishes to help to:
Symo Kurka: - keep monthly track of economic and demographic trends data (SL and CDS)
Symo Kurka: - show a monthly brief report both in web and in world, during the first RA meeting of the month
Cindy Ecksol raises hand
Symo Kurka: Yes Cindy
Cindy Ecksol: I am not sure that I know what you mean by "economic trends"
Symo Kurka: and after Cindy, Sudane, for any comment
Symo Kurka: yes
Symo Kurka: will you explain Sudane please'
Sudane Erato: We are drafting a list of SL based and CDS based economic facts
Sudane Erato: like
Sudane Erato: how many new islands were formed
Sudane Erato: or how much land sells for
Sudane Erato: in particular...
Sudane Erato: how those numbers have changed from last month
Sudane Erato: the exact things we report on will probably evolve
Sudane Erato: as we discover which are useful and which are not
Solomon Mosely raises hand
Justice Soothsayer: Sudane, that's a great idea. I'd also like to see data on our vacancy rates and delinquency rates.
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds that
Sudane Erato: I'm debeloping the list with Symo
Sudane Erato: so... please feedback to him
Moon Adamant: brb
Symo Kurka: I would consent Solomon to intervene..
Symo Kurka:
Sudane Erato is functioning as lackey
Solomon Mosely: thanks symo,
Symo Kurka: Btw Justice you know the GIGO principle?
Solomon Mosely: i was going to ask if absorption rates were included in the data gathered
Symo Kurka: I'll explain later, go on Sol
Symo Kurka: Lol
Symo Kurka: I see many volunteers around
Symo Kurka: Listen
Symo Kurka: The next step will be working together on the first draft edition of this "VIRTUAL ECONOMY MONTHLY OBS" to findout the most meaningful data available.
Sudane Erato: what is absorption rate?
Cindy Ecksol: what kind of volunteers are you looking for, symo?
Symo Kurka: You can define it later on
Solomon Mosely: how long ittakes land to sell
Symo Kurka: I mean
Justice Soothsayer: Symo, not sure what you mean about GIGO and request for info about CDS vacant land?
Symo Kurka: I'll start with Sudane with a list of data AVAILABLE
Sudane Erato: yes... some data is very diff icult to collect
Symo Kurka: AVAILABLE and MEANINGFUL
Symo Kurka: and all volunteers can propose more figures
Symo Kurka: explaining what they do mean
Sonja Strom: Hi Arria
Symo Kurka: and which is the source
Arria Perreault: Hi Sonja
Arria Perreault: Hi everybody
Symo Kurka: Please evrybody touch the recorder under the table to indicate your consent to recording.
Solomon Mosely has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Symo Kurka: Is that clear?
Timo Gufler has indicated consent to be recorded.
Cindy Ecksol: um....no, not really
Solomon Mosely nods
Symo Kurka: Cindy
Sonja Strom: lol
Sonja Strom: not to me either... but it's ok
Cindy Ecksol: I think you are asking for volunteers to....imagine what numbers we might want?
Symo Kurka: when we discuss whether to buy or not a new sim
Symo Kurka: ...
Arria Perreault: volunteers for what?
Cindy Ecksol: or maybe to collect nubers?
Sudane Erato: i think we will be a bit unclear at the beginning as we learn to evolve what works and what doesn't
Symo Kurka: aah
Symo Kurka: we update on this to next RA meeting ok?
Cindy Ecksol: or.....what?
Moon Adamant: back
Sonja Strom: Hi Jamie
Symo Kurka: Ok we'll see next RAwhat we managed to do. I move now
Jamie Palisades: My apologies, ladies & gentlemen. I am having some severe and distracting RL issues today, and can only stay a moment. Perhaps I can ask for my report to be moved?
Symo Kurka: to The next item on our agenda is
DEPUTY LRA NOMINATION
Justice Soothsayer: Symo & Sudane, perhaps in the interests of transparency we could have a forum thread asking folks for suggestions of data that could be reported periodically.
Symo Kurka: Yes Justice sure
Sudane Erato: Justice, that would be fine with me
Symo Kurka: we have no peoblems of transparency ion figures
Symo Kurka: Jamie it's ok
Symo Kurka: I move to next point
Arria Perreault: the conception of a statistical system is not trivial
Symo Kurka: Comments on forums please
Arria Perreault: it need some skill
Symo Kurka: DEPUTY LRA NOMINATION
Symo Kurka looks around
Symo Kurka: Is there any procedure defined for the Deputy LRA nomination?
Sudane Erato: sorry... sim emergencies call
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane:
Justice Soothsayer: I'll nominate Cindy for the job.
Moon Adamant: er... ask for victims er volunteers?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Justice
Justice Soothsayer: If she will forgive me.
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Justice's nomination, if Cindy's willing.
Cindy Ecksol thinks that if she's going to stay out of trouble she'd better stop answering IM's
Symo Kurka: Cindy is again of SP faction
Symo Kurka: would not be ciorrect
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Cindy
Symo Kurka: *correct
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh actually, I think it would, Symo...
Symo Kurka: sorry Cin
Moon Adamant: CSDF doesn't seem to object, though
Symo Kurka: ?
Justice Soothsayer: Gwyn did the job for 2 weeks last term even tho she was of the same faction as the LRA
Symo Kurka: i would propose
Symo Kurka: Sonja (because of the numbers of votes she collected)
Pip Torok: without a procedure for nomination nothings correct or incorrect
Symo Kurka: Sonja??
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well... i mean... the deputy LRA is a replacement of teh LRA when the LRA is not available... and it sort of makes sense to be someone aligned to the same politics & style, to keep things less 'disruptive'
Sonja Strom: It makes sense for a Deputy LRA to be of the same party as the LRA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Sonja
Cindy Ecksol reluctantly agrees with sonja
Sonja Strom: Right
Symo Kurka: Lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope you agree to be nominated as well, Cindy
Symo Kurka: I'm in minority as far as I see
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Symo
Symo Kurka: ))
Moon Adamant: run Cindy run!
Symo Kurka: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Jamie Palisades: actually I'd think that , if factuion control is important to CDS, the deputy usually would be of the same faction .. . but this is for the RA to decide and .. obviously we have not discussed as a faction what Symo plans
Cindy Ecksol: yes, I accept the nomination
Symo Kurka: we set a motion
Symo Kurka: wait
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, I agree with you, yes
Symo Kurka: + we have to vote for you
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We do, yes
Justice Soothsayer: I move that nominations be closed and Cindy elected by acclamation.
Symo Kurka: Votes aye in favour of Cindy as deputy LRA
Gwyneth Llewelyn votes aye too
Soro Dagostino: Second
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah Justice
Cindy Ecksol does her best to get out of the way of the stampede
Justice Soothsayer votes ye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, that would be even more nicer
Soro Dagostino: Now its on the floor.
Pip Torok: aye
Justice Soothsayer: *aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Soro Dagostino: aye
Symo Kurka: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cindy's allowed to vote too....
Cindy Ecksol: abstain
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Justice Soothsayer notes for the record that the job is "LRA pro tempore"
Justice Soothsayer: Latin being required in the Praetorium from time to time
Jamie Palisades: ipso facto
Symo Kurka: pro tempore? means pro 6 months
Jamie Palisades: quid pro quo and all that
Cindy Ecksol makes a note to bone up on her latin in case she has to sit in for Symo
Pip Torok: (quod erat demonstrandum:)
Symo Kurka: alea iacta est
Moon Adamant: fortuna audaces juvat?
Jamie Palisades: and if I had the Latin for it I would say, in Latin, my apolgies for postponing my report and best wishes to you all
Symo Kurka: Now
Cindy Ecksol: vivat musica aeterna
Symo Kurka: The next item on our agenda was CHANCELLOR's MONTHLY REPORT
Symo Kurka: And ok, we move it to next RA
Soro Dagostino: Jamie was unable to stay.
Symo Kurka: ..)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Too late...
Symo Kurka: FIFTH item
Symo Kurka sweats
Symo Kurka: GENERAL MASTER PLAN
Cindy Ecksol obligingly turns down the thermostat
Gwyneth Llewelyn shivers at that
Moon Adamant stands to attention
Symo Kurka: GENERAL MASTER PLAN
Symo Kurka: i'm glad i provoked some debate
Symo Kurka: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2329
Symo Kurka: Though i also realize i raised a huge amount of questions, doubts, and skepticism.
Gwyneth Llewelyn just smiles
Soro Dagostino: From your note in the forum, we are to look at the procedures?
Timo Gufler nods
Symo Kurka: Our goal should be to get the draft bill proposed on forums amended and fully shared by RA members, and therefore I will
Symo Kurka: 1) Propose to Gwyn to lead and draw a second draft of GMP bill?
Symo Kurka: 2) Ask for debate and voting on the following motion:
Symo Kurka: - Shall RA define procedures for GMP adoption, this meaning:
- Accepting GMP fundamentals (to be clearly defined) - Defining how/who makes it operational - How/who might propose specific updates to it - How/who might ask for a general Revision?
Symo Kurka: So 1) Gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gah... well, after reading the last 2 comments,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it's much less consensual now that we need to have an OFFICIAL master Plan
Symo Kurka: I just want FEW things to be clear.
Cindy Ecksol: ack!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Soro & Jamie were actually quite thorough in explaining that the GMP is just "optional", just "guidelines", and might not need more than that
Symo Kurka: GMP cannot be a "recommendation" has to become a law, a SHARED view of our territorial development, with all needed flexibilities (and I think we got many flexibility opportiunities).
Cindy Ecksol: I'd say the real question is do we WANT it to be more?
Symo Kurka: BUT there has to be an official (and -repeat- shared) track of the way we want to develop our territory
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I see your point, Symo
Symo Kurka: This does not mean it is "written on stone"
Sonja Strom: I see no need for the RA to limit itself to the decisions of a Non-Governmental Organization.
Cindy Ecksol agrees with Sonja
Symo Kurka: BUT
Moon Adamant: technically, i agree with Symo
Symo Kurka: it does not either mean that it can be IGNORED by anybody who rules this community.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I read Jamie & Soro correctly (and please forgive me if you meant something different), the GMP is "as official as the Chancellor/RA/Guild decide to make it official" , and that is allegedly "more than enough"
Sonja Strom: The Guild is welcome to make recommendations, but it is not in the interest of the RA to limit itself.
Moon Adamant: well, it seems to me that the problem here is not the Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, it isn't
Cindy Ecksol: Symo, let me see ifi I undrstand what you are trying to accomplish here
Moon Adamant: but who effective?ly approves and empowers the GMP
Symo Kurka: Exactly
Moon Adamant: am i correct?
Justice Soothsayer: I think the idea is that the GMP is used as a tool by the RA in informing its decisions but does not have the force of law, and is therefore more flexible.
Cindy Ecksol thinks that moon got to it...
Sonja Strom: exactly, Justice, I agree with that view.
Cindy Ecksol is ok with that too
Moon Adamant: Justice, you are correct, in tjhe sense that the GMP is a ever-modifying document
Symo Kurka: So
Symo Kurka: guys
Cindy Ecksol: but Symo, is this what you had in mind?
Symo Kurka: let me say
Moon Adamant: everytime we build a new sim, the GMP is actualized
Arria Perreault: GMP should only give general lines for the expansion. It is not a plan to be implemented. We have experienced that SL can change very quickly. This strict GMP would be a barrier. And I think also that creativity in CDS comes from NGO and citizen.
Symo Kurka: if tomorrow morning
Symo Kurka: i decide as LRA or chancellor
Symo Kurka: that i want a sim with skyscarpers nect to AM it's ok?
Moon Adamant: i would like to answer Arria next, please
Justice Soothsayer: No, no, no, the final power rests with the RA.
Symo Kurka: Exactly Justice
Justice Soothsayer: Not the LRA or Chancellor. Jamie's comments make thatquite clear.
Cindy Ecksol raises a hand
Symo Kurka: If I manage to get the simple majority
Symo Kurka: that we WANT a skyscarpers sim next to AM it's ok then?
Symo Kurka: simple majority
Cindy Ecksol is still holding up her hand
Cindy Ecksol is still holding up her hand
Symo Kurka: Cindy pleas your turn
Soro Dagostino: Soro/raises hand
Moon Adamant: and me next?
Moon Adamant:
Cindy Ecksol: symo, what exactly do you want to accomplish that is NOT already in the law?
Justice Soothsayer: In that case, yes, a simple majority would do. Though there might be some constitutional issues that the SC would use to slow things down a bit.
Justice Soothsayer hushes
Symo Kurka: Ok Cindy, Soro, then Moon
Cindy Ecksol: In other words, what law do you want to change or amend?
Patroklus Murakami raises a hand
Cindy Ecksol: or what new law do you want to put in place?
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Cindy question and remains silent
Symo Kurka: Soro next
Soro Dagostino: I beleive the RA makes the final decision.
Cindy Ecksol wonders if she gets an answer first....
Soro Dagostino: It may take suggestions from the NGO.
Soro Dagostino: And other comments at the same time.
Soro Dagostino: And decide -- heh! If it can
Cindy Ecksol: Symo...my point is that we already have a law that instructs the RA to consider the GMP
Symo Kurka: Moon?
Soro Dagostino: "consider."
Moon Adamant: ok, please bear with me for a bit
Cindy Ecksol: Gwyn just dug it out for me: NL 8-4: "The New Guild shall also create, update and maintain a CDS master plan under which future expansions in land area and themes shall occur."
Moon Adamant: first of all, you must realize that the GMP is a plan done by the New Guild at the request of teh CDS
Moon Adamant: second, you must understand that the GMP is in constant actualization and reviewal, and that it is a plan for territorial organization at its minimal level
Moon Adamant: it just defines: themes, densities, topography, connections, so i fail to see in which way it restrains creativity
Moon Adamant: and in thrid place, i would like to inform this RA that the GMP is at this moment in revision, and the first results for discussion will be available next week. Thank you.
Symo Kurka: Patroklus...
Symo Kurka: Pat?
Symo Kurka: Mr Murkami wished to talk...
Symo Kurka: In the meanwhile I remind you
Symo Kurka: RA can IGNORE Guilds recommendations. but cannot ignore its own laws.
Moon Adamant: indeed
Justice Soothsayer: RA can amend its own laws.
Patroklus Murakami: sorry was afk
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Pat )
Symo Kurka: GMP is an idiot thing if it REMAINS a guild recommendation
Symo Kurka: just to say at LL exhibitions we are clever
Patroklus Murakami: i understand the desire to make the GMP something more than just guidance
Symo Kurka: GMP has to be discussed debated shared
Patroklus Murakami: i think it needs to be more than just guidance
Symo Kurka: go on Pat
Timo Gufler raises hand
Patroklus Murakami: we need to have a plan and provide predctability
Arria Perreault: it is already discussed, shared
Patroklus Murakami: but we also need flexibility and must not tie the hands of future RAs
Patroklus Murakami: for example, if we welcome AA into the CDS we will have a much bigger community
Patroklus Murakami: that might elect an RA with different priorities
Patroklus Murakami: so we need to have a plan, but be prepared to change it when needed
Patroklus Murakami: that's all i really wanted to say
Symo Kurka: Great, pat
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bravo, Pat!
Symo Kurka: i share your view
Symo Kurka: which means in other terms
Symo Kurka: that the "vision" of our territorial development must be shared
Symo Kurka: +widely shared
Symo Kurka: and cannot be just in the hands of THREE citixens
Gwyneth Llewelyn: three?
Symo Kurka: +whxch is the simple majorityn of RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah!
Symo Kurka: Timo
Symo Kurka: please
Soro Dagostino: raises hand
Timo Gufler: Just one question: should we give more time for the public discussion about the proposed act? There have been only couple of days for it...
Symo Kurka: and Soro afterwards
Symo Kurka: Yes sure Timo
Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* too
Symo Kurka: we won't skip discussion
Cindy Ecksol raises hand ALSO!!!!
Symo Kurka: Lol
Symo Kurka: Soro, Gwyn, Cindy
Symo Kurka: Soro
Soro Dagostino: The simple majority is allowed by our law.
Soro Dagostino: It is the body to decide.
Symo Kurka: Done? next..
Symo Kurka: Gwyn??
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok....
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would just like to remove the intention, expressed on the forums,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that there should be a "shorter" bill
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. one empowering the GMP to become 'law'
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was not my purpose ? but to be clear, I withdraw it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like many others, I understand Symo's concern that the GMP becomes "a worthless document"
Gwyneth Llewelyn: which nobody here really wants to happen
Symo Kurka: .. as actually GMP IS
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and as a RA member, I pledge to respect the document in itself as well as I can, and to defend its use, adoption, and continuing discussion with the whole citizens
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don't think it is a worthless document +at all+
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I'm also not 100% sure that "making it law" is the right approach; much less making it *a part of the COnstitution*
Symo Kurka: Has evrybody forgotten NUcare??
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: "People come and go, CDS remains"
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, that's all, thank you
Sonja Strom: Symo, what about NuCARE?
Symo Kurka: exactly Gwyn
Cindy Ecksol smiles
Patroklus Murakami: LOL! how could we forget?
Symo Kurka: well i quoted Nucare
Symo Kurka: just to mean how easy it CAN be to have a mad majority in here
Symo Kurka: anyway
Sonja Strom: Sorry, I still don't understand what you mean about NuCARE, Symo
Patroklus Murakami coughs "NuCARE and..."
Symo Kurka: Cindy's turn
Sonja Strom: That a majority of RA members can be wrong?
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Cindy Ecksol: ok...
Symo Kurka: Sonja
Cindy Ecksol waits for symo
Symo Kurka: actually THREE people can decide to open a skyscarpers sim nect to AM
Symo Kurka: Cindy
Symo Kurka: your turn
Soro Dagostino: that's why our terms are only 6 months long?
Justice Soothsayer raises hand
Symo Kurka: lol
Cindy Ecksol: symo, i think that the problem is that we haven't reviewed properly the laws that are in place
Symo Kurka: Cindy??
Sonja Strom: NuCARE never had a majority in the RA, did it?
Cindy Ecksol: gwyn and I would like to take on a review of what we have
Cindy Ecksol: and present to RA next week our findings....
Cindy Ecksol: will explain what is REQUIRED now...and what is not.
Cindy Ecksol: and hopefully clarify anything that is needed
Symo Kurka: That's perfect Cindy, Gwyn, I thank you
Cindy Ecksol: perhaps even suggest a bill that will cover those needs
Symo Kurka: and i would also suggest you to focus on what can be NEEDED from GMP
Symo Kurka: not necessairily the whole of it
Symo Kurka: but what is NEEDED
Symo Kurka: for a safer territorial government
Symo Kurka: Ok
Soro Dagostino: raises hand
Symo Kurka: So for now we do not vote anything
Symo Kurka: ....Soro?
Soro Dagostino: Move to postpone
Symo Kurka: Yes Soro exactly
Cindy Ecksol: second
Symo Kurka: second
Justice Soothsayer: second
Cindy Ecksol:
Symo Kurka: Waiting for Cindy-Gwyn coommission
Symo Kurka: reporting to next RA
Soro Dagostino: Call the question -- non-debatable.
Cindy Ecksol whspers to Symo "All in favor...."
Symo Kurka: and maybe preapring a new draft bill
Symo Kurka: We're voting?
Sonja Strom: One thing I would like to say is, the basic assumption of democracy is that all citizens can be involved in how decisions are reached, and the final decisions come from a majority view.
Cindy Ecksol: yes, symo -- motion on the floor to postpone the discussion
Soro Dagostino: TY
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, sure, postpone
Symo Kurka: We vote to postpone
Cindy Ecksol: no...YOU vote to postpone.
Cindy Ecksol: you musut ask US to vote too
Soro Dagostino: Ask for the vote.
Symo Kurka: Vote please not joke
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Sonja Strom votes aye
Pip Torok: aye
Soro Dagostino: aye
Justice Soothsayer votes aye to postpone this topic
Symo Kurka: and aye
Symo Kurka: recommending Cindy-Gwyn report
Symo Kurka: Next Item
Symo Kurka: in agenda
Soro Dagostino: Move to postpone.
Symo Kurka: VI. COOPERATION WITH OTHER COMMUNITIES
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye (with chat lag)
Symo Kurka: I particularly ask CDSF members to report on this item
Justice Soothsayer raises hand to address "Cooperation with other Communities"
Symo Kurka: Justice
Symo Kurka: )
Justice Soothsayer: Thanks Symo
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm
Justice Soothsayer: The most pressing of these "other communitieis" is AA
Justice Soothsayer: Last week in his confirmation hearing Jamie laid out one possible roadmap for incorporating AA
Justice Soothsayer: "Jamie Palisades: it works in my view exactly like a native sim additionb
Jamie Palisades: some financial feasibility details must be developed and brought to RA
Jamie Palisades: that's my jon
Jamie Palisades: job - assume you reappoint me to it
Jamie Palisades: and the RA must approve maps and land acqusitions and covenants
Jamie Palisades: as lways
Jamie Palisades: abasically, a theme and L$ feasibility decision"
Justice Soothsayer: Now, there may be other road maps that could also be used.
Justice Soothsayer: But I support the one that Jamie suggested as our guide for now, keeping in mind that we might consult different maps from time to time.
Justice Soothsayer: Or even change destinations
Justice Soothsayer: Still, the journey of a thousand miles beings with the first step, and the steps Jamie suggested make sense to me.
Justice Soothsayer: *begins
Justice Soothsayer: Done
Symo Kurka: Any other RA member wants to speak about this
Symo Kurka: So do I assume
Symo Kurka: that Justice and Jamie are "project leaders" for the AA item?
Justice Soothsayer: ah, no, I think Jamie is the project leader.
Symo Kurka: )
Symo Kurka: yes Justice but
Symo Kurka: morally
Symo Kurka: COOPERATION WITH OTHER COMMUNITIES belongs to CDSF too...
Symo Kurka: if i'm not wrong
Cindy Ecksol: symo, tha tmay be so....but the AA project is for Jamie to bring to the floor
ustice Soothsayer: belongs to all of us, I think. But the initiative ought to come from discussions thru the Chancellor.
Soro Dagostino: raises hand . .
Pip Torok: but wont Jamie be wearing a CDS hat as Chancellor + project leader?
Cindy Ecksol agrees with pip
Symo Kurka: ..Soro
Symo Kurka: Soro?'
Soro Dagostino: I just think we ought to wait until Jamie is here.
Symo Kurka: ok
Symo Kurka: but Jamie
Symo Kurka: if tomorrow you read transcription )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would agree too... because from our point of view, the CSDF does indeed agree in general with the whole concept... but we need to understand the full concept
Symo Kurka: we want a sharp report on the AA item
Pip Torok: imo the chancellor is in the best position to represent us vivs a vis AA
Symo Kurka: we ALL agree then, sonja??
Sonja Strom: Agreed, yes.
Symo Kurka: we move to postpone
Soro Dagostino: I did.
Symo Kurka: or better
Symo Kurka: to replay
Cindy Ecksol: second
Soro Dagostino: Call the question
Symo Kurka: WPlease vote for asking Chancellor a report on the AA Item
Symo Kurka: defining
Cindy Ecksol: no...that was not the motion
Soro Dagostino: Non-debatable.
Symo Kurka: status and next steps
Cindy Ecksol: the motion is to postpone discussion on this agenda item
Cindy Ecksol: "cooperation"
Cindy Ecksol: need to vote on that first, symo
Cindy Ecksol: then can have another motion....
Symo Kurka: Postponing COOPERATION doesn't mean much to me
Symo Kurka: ok
Soro Dagostino: The agenda item.
Symo Kurka: uh
Symo Kurka: Formals
Cindy Ecksol: it is an agenda item...you introduced it, must postpone it if we are not continuing
Symo Kurka: 1) who votes aye for postponing COOPERATION item
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Soro Dagostino: Aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Justice Soothsayer: Aye
Cindy Ecksol: do we have another motion to ask jamie to bring forward an AA proposal?
Justice Soothsayer: one avatar, one vote, Cindy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Justice Soothsayer: JAmie's report is already postponed to next time
Symo Kurka: aye.... 2) who votes for asking Chancellor a report on AA item status and next steps
Cindy Ecksol: no...that is his status report on CDS
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) aye as well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Justice, Cindy is right ? BESIDES the usual report, do a SPECIAL report on AA.
Cindy Ecksol: we don't want a report on AA status: we want a proposal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry ? proposal
Symo Kurka: do we HAVE a proposal??
Justice Soothsayer: Agreed.
Cindy Ecksol: I move that we request that the Chancellor present a proposal to RA regarding merger with AA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don't know, Symo!
Justice Soothsayer: second
Soro Dagostino: second
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would certainly second Cindy's motion ? THEN we will have a proposal
Symo Kurka: lol so we vote for something we don't know if it wexists?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No ? we vote to have the Chancellor MAKE a proposal
Justice Soothsayer is not sure that Jamie can have a proposal for us for next week, but sometime soon
Symo Kurka: So
Cindy Ecksol: symo, if it does not exist, Jamie will tell us that....or he will specifically explain why it is not time to make a proposal
Cindy Ecksol: we can always postpone past next week
Symo Kurka: i we are not sure i thgink we would appreciate at least an update
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's true, so I suggest the amendment: "we request that the Chancellor present a proposal to RA regarding merger with AA *as soon as the Chancellor is able to do so*" (or we could add a limit: "within a month"?)
Cindy Ecksol: "update" is too wishy-washy....proposal is what we want
Cindy Ecksol: I would accept an amendment to my motion "within 30 days"
Soro Dagostino: Second accepts.
Symo Kurka: I accept Gwyn's formula and Cindy's amendm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, within 30 days
Soro Dagostino: Call the question.
Symo Kurka: we request that the Chancellor present a proposal to RA regarding merger with AA within 30 days
Cindy Ecksol: motion on the floor is now: RA requests that within 30 days the Chancellor present a proposal regarding merger with AA
Symo Kurka: Vote aye or nay
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Justice Soothsayer votes Aye
Soro Dagostino: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Symo Kurka: Gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh aye
Symo Kurka: i vote aye as well in meanwhile
Symo Kurka: ok
Pip Torok: aye
Symo Kurka: We move to ITEM VIII
Symo Kurka: CULTURE ENTERTAINMENT, SPORTS
Symo Kurka: But Ms Springvale is not here
Justice Soothsayer: Econ development? VII?
Symo Kurka: Sorry justice
Symo Kurka: VII. CDS ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
Sonja Strom: About item VIII, maybe we could allow a dance club somewhere in the CDS.
Symo Kurka: Is anybody able to sum up a list of actions and bills pending?
Symo Kurka:
Symo Kurka: I'm personally in favour Sonja
Cindy Ecksol thinks that is the LRA's job....
Soro Dagostino: raises hand.
Symo Kurka: Justice is there any bill PENDING on CDS economic development?
Justice Soothsayer: There aren't any bills pending from last term, though JAmie did say he would like to propose allowing shortterm commercial rentals, I think. No legislation has been introduced.
Symo Kurka: Soro
Soro Dagostino: Thank you Justice
Soro Dagostino: That was my comment.
Symo Kurka: Thanks justice
Symo Kurka: What is clear to me
Justice Soothsayer: Also, we have the skeleton of a Chamber of Commerce but no one has moved forward to form one with an RA-approved charter.
Symo Kurka: it's TREMENDOUSLY clear
Symo Kurka: we NEED ministers
Symo Kurka: either named from RA or from Chancellor
Symo Kurka: but i RAISE this
Cindy Ecksol considers her prayer skills insuffcient for a ministerial job
Sonja Strom wonders if a state-directed Chamber of Commerce is a really good idea
Symo Kurka: there is NO ONE here
Soro Dagostino: My aliens won't accept that kind of call.
Solomon Mosely raises hand
Symo Kurka: there is NO oNE here responsible for CDS economic development
Symo Kurka: Solomon
Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (after Sol)
Symo Kurka: and after Sol, Gwyn
Soro Dagostino: raises hand
Symo Kurka: Solomon go on
Solomon Mosely: would this chamber of commerce be responsible for economic development like the guild is for physical development?
Symo Kurka: Gwyn?
Solomon Mosely: i think its role has been the debate
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh... just to clarify, a question....
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What exactly is meant with "responsible"?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm sorry if the question is obvious.
Solomon Mosely: function i guess
Symo Kurka: Yw Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have people who are responsible for ASPECTS of the finances
Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. Treasurer
Symo Kurka: exactly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we also have people who are responsible for approving a budget, e.g. RA
Symo Kurka: what i frankly do not like
Patroklus Murakami raises hand
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and for introducing a budget, e.g. Chancellor
Symo Kurka: great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and for managing it...in some areas.... PIO for promotion, New Guild for public works...
Symo Kurka: is not having a "minister" for key matters
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so mmmh the question is basically: what do you think we need more?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ty.
Symo Kurka: exactly Gwyn
Symo Kurka: I think economic development of CDS and diversifyin revenues is a strategic matter
Moon Adamant: i must go now, thanks everyone
Symo Kurka: and needs somebody dedicated...
Symo Kurka: Pat?
Patroklus Murakami: ty symo
Patroklus Murakami: well, if feel i bear some measure of blame here
Patroklus Murakami: i started the CDS Traders Association a long time ago, but then was elected LRA and didn't have time to follow thru
Patroklus Murakami: so take what i say with a pinch of salt
Arria Perreault raises hands
Patroklus Murakami: do as i say, not as i do!
Patroklus Murakami: i woudl hope that any chamber of commerce would arise from the people involved
Patroklus Murakami: rather than by state direction
Patroklus Murakami: there's somethign about an RA -sponsored CoC that just feels too corporatis to me
Patroklus Murakami: that said, i do think it woudl be good to have an Economics Minister
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Patroklus Murakami: or at least an RA member responsible for thinking about legislation in this area
Arria Perreault:
Patroklus Murakami: Minister is perhaps the wrong word
Symo Kurka: One question Pat
Patroklus Murakami: becasue that feels more 'executive'
Arria Perreault: (and a culture Ministers)
Patroklus Murakami: economics coordinator perhaps?
Patroklus Murakami: or commissioner?
Patroklus Murakami: anyway, my 2L$
Patroklus Murakami:
Symo Kurka: [10:50] Patroklus Murakami: becasue that feels more 'executive'
Symo Kurka: what is not clear to me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It *could* be an official role of the Executive, of course....
Symo Kurka: if it would be better in executive branch or in RA
Patroklus Murakami: it could gwyn
Patroklus Murakami: and maybe there's a better case for Ministers being in the Exec branch
Patroklus Murakami: as you know, in the UK we have a weird system
Patroklus Murakami: so Ministers sit in the legislature
Cindy Ecksol thinks she sees the sense in ministers being on the chancellor's staff
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I've heard both suggestions (ie. part of the Exec; part of the RA) being vented before... but no concrete suggestions (i.e. no bills presented) I think
Arria Perreault would like to speak
Symo Kurka: /thinks Gwyn is volunteering again????
Justice Soothsayer: we also had a commerce commission as well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Symo: no way! lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Justice
Symo Kurka b blinks to Gwyn
Symo Kurka: Arria's turn
Arria Perreault: thank you
Arria Perreault: I think the first thing to do in the economic development in CDS is to know better what is the SL economy
Arria Perreault: you have probably noticed that the former SLexchange and Onrez were bought by LL
Arria Perreault: and that it will be integrated in SL
Arria Perreault: the existence of a Web market and a general SL market has consequences to our own market
Arria Perreault: what happens with our small shop?
Arria Perreault: is it better to sell through a general platform or in a in-world shop
Arria Perreault: I have also told several times that SL has a long tail market
Arria Perreault: this means for us "niche market"
Symo Kurka: Please Arria...time...
Soro Dagostino: brb
Arria Perreault: what can we do to development niche markets here
Arria Perreault: I am done
Symo Kurka: Ok thank you
Symo Kurka: getting back to minister / or cohordinator
Symo Kurka: I would love to see a proposal for next RA
Symo Kurka: OR
Symo Kurka: in forums
Symo Kurka: Can I ask Patroklus
Symo Kurka: to open a thread in Forum on this item?
Patroklus Murakami: sure, np
Symo Kurka: Ok guys
Symo Kurka: I'm very sorry for my inexperience but got late again
Symo Kurka: and i propose we adjourn
Soro Dagostino: so move
Justice Soothsayer: second
Symo Kurka: Who votes aye to adjourn'
Soro Dagostino: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Symo Kurka: Thank you all for your patience
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Justice Soothsayer: Good discussions this week
Sonja Strom: Thanks everybody for being here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, it was interesting!
Cindy Ecksol: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
Pip Torok: (and civilised!:)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Cindy
The meeting closed at 11:1 Linden time.