Al Andalus expansion proposal March 2009

[Sonja Strom]

I do not see how it is possible to maintain a accurate voting list since there is no mechanism to check it by interested 3rd parties and as the French saying "who watches the watchmen?"

As a "watcher" of "democracy" in second life am using it as a measure of its success and failure. I am not sure which the CDS is due to my doubts.

*I do not use AA to represent Al Andalus since that is the initials/name or name for Alcoholics Anonymous and American Airlines *

I have to admit, probably I would be very suspicious of this possibility if I did not know the owner of Al Andalus and its history in Second Life. Since I do know both well, in this case I am trusting of it.

I am not sure how you are measuring the success or failure of the CDS. In the past I have had my own doubts about how truly democratic the CDS was, but there have been some major changes in the past year that leave me now feeling like the CDS government really is attempting to reflect the wishes of the CDS population. Although I still think the vote-counting in the last election arrived at strange results (see this thread: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2290), those results were explained in a way that I think if there is a problem it is in the voting system itself, not because of any type of hidden control. The fact that your former party the SP received the most seats in the Representative Assembly and the Leader of the RA position is to me an indication that "old timers" are not excluding others from leadership or decision-making.

AA are also the initials for my land management group in SL, "Allianz Alpina."

[Ranma Tardis]

My question is to the owner of Al Andalus. Why would she/he sign over so many expensive sims to a "democracy"? It is something I do not understand and am seeking knowledge. At reduced prices the sims should sell in a hurry.
I do not think the "old guard" is excluding anyone though to be addressed in a new thread will address how the neufers are becoming extinct. However that has nothing to do with my question.

[Sonja Strom]

I have been thinking about something that might not be necessary but could be good for us to take into consideration.

If this offer were to be extended by the CDS and accepted by Al Andalus, the "new" sims would have 2 seats in the RA representing them for around one term. In this spirit, if the offer was accepted less than one month before the closing date for participation in the July elections, the AA sims would be guaranteed their seats through the election and the next term. In my view this is normal and would make sense, as it would give AA citizens relatively equivalent representation from the time they would join the CDS until they would be integrated enough to be able to participate in the normal CDS elections. In other words, it would provide them with a sensible and stable transition.

If these seats were guaranteed through the election, it seems like it could also be important for us to specify that the "old" sims of the CDS would be the only sims participating in the July elections. This could be important for issues of fairness and balance, and so none of the factions would suddenly be thrown out of the elections because they did not have 10% of the new total population in their membership.

I am not sure how it would be best to incorporate this concept into the offer, but here is one possibility:
At the end of Item 4 could be added:
"In the case of (b) above, all aspects of the next general election shall apply only to those sims in the CDS at the time this offer was accepted."

[Jamie Palisades]

I am pleased to report that the CDS RA today approved a version of CDS' offer to merge with the Al Andalus estates. The exact form of the motion, which is an offer from CDS to AA, will be posted later tonight from the record of the meeting minutes; it was generally based on the *second* draft proposal posted here:
http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... 394#p13240
Though there were some changes made at the meeting. To be posted shortly.

Let me extend a big preliminary thank you to all who assisted with this, including all of the Al Andalus management team (Rose, Satir and their colleagues), as well as all active CDS government members, and especially Cindy, Brian, Timo, Moon, Pip, Soro and Patroklus, each of who recently put significant constructive time and thought into how best to handle this novel decision.

It's NOT a deal until and unless Al Andalus accepts; and the 4-0 RA vote still could be modified (to 5-0 or 4-1) by the uncast vote of one RA member who was unable to attend and asked for a 7-day voting extension. We will keep you advised of our progress.

Still, this is a big day for CDS' growth, and for demonstrating the flexibility and collaborative abilities of our little government system.

Regards JP

[Patroklus Murakami]

I am pleased to report that the CDS RA today approved a version of CDS' offer to merge with the Al Andalus estates. The exact form of the motion, which is an offer from CDS to AA, will be posted later tonight from the record of the meeting minutes; it was generally based on the *second* draft proposal posted here:
http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... 394#p13240
Though there were some changes made at the meeting. To be posted shortly.

I think Sonja requested 7-day votes for items that came up last Sunday. It would be good if the exact motion could be posted here so that RA members who were absent from the meeting know what they are being asked to vote on and so that CDS and AA citizens can see what the offer says.

[Cindy Ecksol]

I am pleased to report that the CDS RA today approved a version of CDS' offer to merge with the Al Andalus estates. The exact form of the motion, which is an offer from CDS to AA, will be posted later tonight from the record of the meeting minutes; it was generally based on the *second* draft proposal posted here:
http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... 394#p13240
Though there were some changes made at the meeting. To be posted shortly.

I think Sonja requested 7-day votes for items that came up last Sunday. It would be good if the exact motion could be posted here so that RA members who were absent from the meeting know what they are being asked to vote on and so that CDS and AA citizens can see what the offer says.

I have posted the complete text here: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2445

Cindy

[Rose Springvale]

It is my understanding that Al Andalus will be provided with the offer directly and not be presumed to come to the CDS forums to figure it out. Until that is delivered, there will be no presentation to the citizens.

[Sonja Strom]

Thank you to those who remembered I had requested a 7-day vote for this bill in the last RA Meeting.

I am very disappointed that the suggestion I made five posts above this one was completely ignored by everybody.
It was:
"At the end of Item 4 could be added:
'In the case of (b) above, all aspects of the next general election shall apply only to those sims in the CDS at the time this offer was accepted."

Several days later a completely new thread was even made for the revised proposed text (at http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2438) beginning with this comment:

Several people expressed (varying) strong views and interpretations of our laws, constitution and what they claim or suggest are overriding principles, which in their view should control any CDS (and AA) elections.

They were invited to come forward with suggested solutions or alternatives, to permit constructive progress, but I am unaware of any being circulated.

Was I unclear in what I wrote? I would have been glad to explain my concept further had any questions been asked about it. I really think we should have talked more about this issue in order to be fair.

I am not happy about this one aspect of the offer, but I am happy the RA is wanting to extend an offer for the Al-Andalus sims to join our confederation of democratic sims, as documented in the RA discussion here http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2444 (the vote can be found there around the end of the first post). Although the bill has already passed in the Representative Assembly, I am adding my vote in support of the offer. In my understanding this will make the bill pass by a vote of 5-0-0.

[Jamie Palisades]

I am pleased to confirm that the Al Andalus estate accepted our offer.
See http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... 345#p13345

[Jamie Palisades]

Sonja's quite right that I and we missed her suggestion here. I apologize. It's true that not everyone reads these Forums regularly, though. I expect the RA will review the methods by which AA citizens are added to the CDS electorate at the RA's next meeting. Regards JP

[Sonja Strom]

I am pleased to say that Al Andalus, in its acceptance of our offer and response to us (reference given above in Jamie's post), has taken care of the issue I was concerned about.

For the future, it could be good for us to use this experience to work on an addition to the CDS Constitution regarding mergers with other communities, such as the proposal made by Patroklus here: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... 292#p13292
Then there could be a consistent guide (that naturally could be revised) already in place for such instances.

With regard to whether or not CDS government officials are reading the Forum, I understand Jamie's point that perhaps they are not. In the future when I feel something should be added to a bill, I will also share my thoughts with all members of the RA individually to make sure they know of them.

Having said this, another thing that could be really helpful is if citizens would try to use existing threads in the Forum for their posts, instead of (as sometimes happens) starting several different threads all about the same topic.