[color=Black:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Object-Name: notetaker 2.0.1[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Sienna:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Region: Neufreistadt (246528, 249600)[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Local-Position: (100, 87, 128)[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkGreen:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Meeting on 2006-08-10[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Those present[/b:bv4p3weg]: [/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami is in the chair.[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkRed:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Yogeswari Padar has indicated consent to be recorded.[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn touches the recorder to give permission to be logged.[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: please touch the recorder to indicate your consent to be recorded[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Olive:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Washington Irvine has indicated consent to be recorded.[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: washington, we publish a transcript of all our meetings so ppl who werent' here can read them[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle prepares to take notes[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: first item[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: next RA meeting[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn now only speaks formally.[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: franchulate bill. anyone understand this? I still can't get my head round it[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: lol[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: well[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: we discussed it after the RA meeting[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: It makes more sense under the new group tools...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: does it make sense now though?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Expansion is fine,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: i have no strong objection to it, i jsut can't see the benefit[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: BTW, Moon seems to have crashed...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Well, it is an interesting idea. I am not sure if it will work economically, but it does allow new forms for expansion.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: i thought of franchulating one of my business parcels but not if it means i lose control of my land![/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Moon had some objections however, that I share.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: hmmmm, do you read this?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: brb[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: first of all...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami waits for moon[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: hmmmm, seems like it has recovered[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: well, let me try again, lol[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle listens[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: so we discussed it[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: sorry[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: think i must be getting bad chat lag, haven't seen anything of moon's text![/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Ah, let me outline those[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami listens to jon[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: No, Moon is having an issue with her Ethernet card, I think...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: The question came up, how are the franch to be goverened?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Are each to have their own commitee, as the DPU proposes for sims?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: hi extropia, welcome[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkRed:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Yogeswari Padar[/b:bv4p3weg]: hi extropia[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Hello Extropia
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Green:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Extropia DaSilva[/b:bv4p3weg]: Hey Hi there:)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: pls touch the recorder to indicate consent to keeping a chat long
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: It seemd to us this was a good aegument for a republic vs a confederated model.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: *log[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: and also Moon noted that the bill really assumed that this kind of expansion is[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: economically motivated only. While there are many other aspects that are quite important.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Personally, as you know, I'm all for the "expansion on the mainland" (even if I agree that the enforceability of it right now is pretty much reduced, but it'll change quite a bit under SL 1.12)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Moon, is that a fair summary?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: yes, Jon, thanks a lot[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: and hello Extropia
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Hello Extropia!
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: I like the idea overall, because it might let up incorporate groups like the[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: but is the economic emphasis a show-stopper? i'm inclined to say 'let it pass and see what happens'[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: esprato group more easily.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Yes, Jon, my thoughts exactly...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: but the objections have to be ironed out.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Green:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Extropia DaSilva[/b:bv4p3weg]: Hello! When do we discuss dismantling the planets and using the raw materials to build a Matrioska Brain computer, then? Lol![/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: And personally, again, I have nothing against the proposal "in general" hehe[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: and lol Extropia
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: oh, that's a good point. perhaps the proposal needs a little more thought? we should suggest more discussion?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: i think though that this bill should come accompanied by others, a larger framework[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: We could *provide* more discussion,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: and propose our own framework...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: i wanted to, but had no time for it[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Aye. Well.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: "not voting" on it and requesting for more time is fair enough, I guess
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: What would our key points be, though?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: the dpu are keen to pass it tho, and it was in their manifesto. so they could force a vote i suppose. we'd need strong arguments to favour a stay[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Like hmm, "no franchulates before we decide if we're a republic or a federation"?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: I talked a bit to Salzie, and my take on her position, is that we really need to iron out the executive and consititutional issues before we move ahead on so many other proposals.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Or "no franchulates before delegating executive powers"?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Ok... yes, Jon.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: how would this bill, if passed, coordinate with our own proposals for Opensource democracy and diplomatic relations?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Well,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: the franchulates, as I read them,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: are "part" of the CDS:[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: so, under the same legal system, etc.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Our own proposals for those 2 areas would be more targetted towards "external" groups...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: ... or so I understand...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami waits for chat to appear....[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: everybody quite all of the sudden..[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Olive:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Washington Irvine[/b:bv4p3weg]: Apologies guys, I'll need to read a FAQ before crashing in on another meeting - all over my head. Ta Ta[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkRed:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Yogeswari Padar[/b:bv4p3weg]: bye[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Green:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Extropia DaSilva[/b:bv4p3weg]: Get the FAQ out of here...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: bye Washington, np at all
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: well, you're welocme to join us anytime washington[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Bye Washington[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: It's a bit complex, Washington
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Anyway hmm,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: I have some questions on the franchulates, why did Pelanor propose them to report to the Guild=[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: ?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: are we agree that the franchulate idea needs to be resolved afer we sort out the exec and the republic? is that our position? (in which case we can move on:))[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: well, i agree to that[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: i think that is the main question really[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Yes, I think we can try to move it to after the other discussions. I am not completley sure that will work, but it might[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: there's no pressing need for franchulates that i can discern[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Oooh I disagree on the "lack of pressing need",[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: is anybody banging on the gates demanding them?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: lol Pat[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: apparently, Pelanor claims so, yes.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: go on gw[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: making a queue for them...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: We speculate on the Esperantoists,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: but Pelanor has interests on the mainland,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: as has FR, Dnate, and others.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: *I* would love to add some more areas as well, LOL[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: yes, it may be economically motivated in Pel's part.. I am not sure.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: My issue is, as always, enforcement.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: k, there may be a pressing need
but we suggest furhter discussion? can we move on to referenda?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Democratic participation is easy: we're a republic (and always have been), unless the constitution is amended.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: I would suggest at least more discussion on the *ownership* issue.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: The rest is rather clear to me...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: but is it good for our image as a territory management project to have odd bits of land here and there? i wonder...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Sure it is, Moon
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: World Domination Now?, one tiny bit at a time.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: lol[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Here and there, Neufreistadt everywhere![/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: 512 by 512 at a time
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Aye
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Also, there is the psychological impact,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Well, IF it is well managed, I think it may give us more exposure, and allow us to add new groups.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: imagine rotating signs on the mainland "This Land is Under The Jurisdiction of Neufreistadt/CDS".[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: "trespassers shall be forced to attend meetings until they die of boredom"
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: LOL I asked Gwyn today if her world domination project included RL[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: yes, i quite like that idea. especially flying the flag on my mainland parcels and providing business guarantees. but it doesn't feel fully formed[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: lol gwyn[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Not yet, Jon
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkRed:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Yogeswari Padar[/b:bv4p3weg]: lol[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Well, one thing is for sure. The *ownership* (in SL terms!) has to be *crystal clear*,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami bangs hammer. Referenda? Yes or no?[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: yes, of course[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: yes[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkRed:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Yogeswari Padar[/b:bv4p3weg]: yes[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: I've noticed that Pelanor "assumed" that the City would own it,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: and that all franchulates are group land with rentals.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Ok, sorry, Pat.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn hushes now.[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: well, it seems we're agreed on referenda. claude has raised some qns about it, i favour giving the RA leeway..[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: but i wouldn't hold out for the sake of it[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: any comments?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Aye, well[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: the only comment I have...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: ... is to have the bill on the referenda to be approved as late as possible,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: and include Claude's suggestion
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: (ie. that it only gets approved by the end of term)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: But it might be worth asking Claude if the DPU is willing to let the current bill pass...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn is against referenda anyway
[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: sounds reasonable.. as we have work to do in that department.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: pfff biased Gwyn
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Yes, very much so. "The vote to the people, not the power to the people"
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: that's a very 'pragmatic' way of looking at things
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: I know, Pat
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkRed:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Yogeswari Padar[/b:bv4p3weg]: you'd fit in very well here in NYS, gwyn[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: But I have my rather strong views on that, hehe.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Oh, Yoge ? actually, I always had doubts on referenda,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkRed:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Yogeswari Padar[/b:bv4p3weg]: there's an ongoing debate here about allowing initiative and referenda[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: all that I've seen in my lifetime broke completely the important issues to be approved,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Yoge, if I rember, NYS never had that.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkRed:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Yogeswari Padar[/b:bv4p3weg]: it doesn't[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: pro-choice in my country, or the European Constitution...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: ... when you get the people to decide... they decide AGAINST change
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: hehe.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Ah well,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: as said,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: i wonder if any RA is going to want to tie the hands of a future one? i can see this amend never getting passed
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Claude should be consulted.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Indeed Pat[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Ask him first.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: perhaps jon could discuss with claude in advance of the RA meeting? table it for later in the term if the dpu agree?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: I would be gald to.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: But what is the sense of this meeting, that it should not go ahead?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: it's a good idea[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: OK, next budget[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: I think we had quite a bit of things that *should* be changed on the constitution *before* our "hands get tied", as you so well put it on the forums, Pat...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: oh, i think it should go ahead[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Hello Xed, welcome![/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: V^v^.:HowwwlzzZ:.^v^V[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: xed[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Green:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Extropia DaSilva[/b:bv4p3weg]: Hello![/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkRed:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Yogeswari Padar[/b:bv4p3weg]: hellow xed[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Teal:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Xed Goheen[/b:bv4p3weg]: Hello all[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Hello Xed[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: anybody have a chance to read the budget?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Oops... budget, budget.... no?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: enlighten us, o Beloved Leader?
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn blushes ashamedly.[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: i haven't, sorry[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkRed:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Yogeswari Padar[/b:bv4p3weg]: neither have i, sorry[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: I scanned it breifly.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Pat, do you have some specific issues?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Oops.. lost our SG[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Aye... let's wait a bit.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Yes, I think so.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: wb!
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkRed:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Yogeswari Padar[/b:bv4p3weg]: wb pat[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: wb
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: not having much luck today, am i?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Doesn't look so...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Do you have specific issues with the budget Pat?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle smiles at Pat[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: i havent' really scrutinised it, hoped others might have
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Hmm for clarification's sake... I can't find a "budget", just a "Financial Sheet"[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: ... do you have a link to the budget?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: lol Pat[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: hmm, Gwyn i have it in my other machine, i can send it to you later on[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: It should be on the forum I think[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: thank you Moon[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Well, I searched for "budget"...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: perhaps we should move on to exec/guild reform where we do have things to say? come bbback to budget if we have time[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: fine by me[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Yes, I think so.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami looks for the link for gwyn[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: are we any further forward on guild/exec reform? feels like the camps are embedded to me[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Well, I found Justice's proposal interesting[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Oh, fascinating indeed, Jon.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Even Ashcroft's.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: as it does not require election of a separate exec. but has the RA appoint one.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Yes.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: As I read this, we may be able to get this[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: a bit closer to our model.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: It's almost the same as what the CSDF is proposing, actually,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: indeed[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: the difference mostly being the way it's introduced.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: which one, ashcroft's ?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle agrees with Gwyn[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: ... and Justice's[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Justice basically took Ashcroft's proposal and made it into a bill
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: With some slight editing.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Well Ashcroft, as I read it, would have elections for the exec in each sim.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: oh yes, but there's still some dispute over remit and constl implications[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: yes, true Pat.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: yes, Jon, although his own bill did not set it specifically.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: and indeed, Pat.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: I've just posted a few minutes ago two things that have to be addressed,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: i did have a brief chat with claude about all of this[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: 1) one or many "burgermeisters"?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: 2) what about the Guild?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle nods to Gwyn[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Pat, what did Claude say?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: This is clearly NOT what Claude proposed.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: his main issue appears to be 'checks and balances', his budget example is rather good. currently the GM checks the RA on budgeting and prevents frivolous expenditure[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Ah yes.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: well, acts as a check on it[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: That is indeed my only objection (the budget=[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: )[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: under our system, who could prevent a rogue RA from poor use of money. 'a lot of damage can be done in six month' is claude's view[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: The Guild has veto powers...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: if we could find a way to incorporat thsi, that would help[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: I am not at all sure that an exec with a veto would help this problem.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: I agree.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: I agree with you as well, Jon.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: but if the Guild has an understanding with teh RA...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: That's the same issue as if the RA has an understanding with the SC ...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle nods to Moon[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: oh yes, the current system is not foolproof[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: So yes, Moon, you're right.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: but it has checks and balances built inn[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: one idea i had, was that we could allow for the recall of the RA[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Well, Claude does hava a point, if the exec is appointed by the majority party.... there are no real checks.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: the citizens could vote to recall a rogue RA. might be a good thing anyway[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: I mean related to the budget.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: why don't the SC then check on the Budget, through a financial committee?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Another referendum![/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: haha[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Moon, that MIGHT be an alternative...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: yes, I think I would be happier with that[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Pat, and who would set up a referendum against the RA?
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Clearly, it could not be neither the RA, nor the Exec...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: who would initiate? well, the citizens by referenda. perhaps 10% to trigger an election[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: I know! Citizens directly impeaching their officials![/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: hehe[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: they would plea to teh SC i suppose[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Yes, Pat, but consider the following scenario...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: ah-hah[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: So, now[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Now we have an SC with judicial powers,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: financial veto,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: and the power to dissove the RA.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Hah.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Claude will smash us publicly once he reads this
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: hmm, i see your point
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: hehe
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: i dont' favour giving the SC any financial powers, it muddies the waters[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: *and* dissolving the RA through a popular vote.... hehe[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Blue:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Ranma Tardis[/b:bv4p3weg]: HI[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Naaah[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Nobody will go for that
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: hi Ranma
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Ranma, hello there![/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: hi ranma[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Hi Ranma[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Ranma, we're planning to make the SC totalitarian, please take a seat
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Blue:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Ranma Tardis[/b:bv4p3weg]: came home and saw this group here[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: lol[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: ... while you still can![/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle laughs[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn taxes now every citizen having a seat.[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: why not gwyn? recall elections are a useful check on the power of the legislature. very democratic
[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Oh, Pat, I agree, of course,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: the thing is[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: there is a 4th power, which is the power of veto[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: I'm just joking... but... the issue is: IF the RA and the Exec do NOT want to get out of office,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: who will force them out of office?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: How would the voting system work in that case,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: since it's set up by the RA itself?[/color:bv4p3weg]