[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: That is for all to do. Please consent
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: consent to recording now please
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: Where is the recorder
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: black box under the table -- but don't touch, jus t consent in chat please
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I consent
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: I consent to being recorded.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: i consent to being recorded
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: hi everyone 
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hello Pat.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: hi pat!
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: hi Pat!!
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Waiting for Brian and Jamie
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: no quorum
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I see that.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Waiting . . .
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami recalls that is often difficult to get a quorum at this stage of the RAs term 
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i hope the meeting becomes quorate soon. if not, did you plan to hold a free discussion for anyone who wants to stay?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: That would be in order.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: great
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hello Sudane
[2009/05/31 Sudane Erato: hi
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: Hi su
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: hi sudane
[2009/05/31 Sudane Erato: hi hi
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Lets proceed, subject to ratification by the any quorum maker
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale raises brow
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: All consent to recordation?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: consent
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i consent
[2009/05/31 Sudane Erato: i do... if i say anything
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: but we can't do anything soro....
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: what su said
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I know Rose.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: But we can get to open discussion items.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Not those up for a vote.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: well, we could have an open discussion about *anything*! just no votes
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: in that case i have an item of discussion
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Wait one.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: We do have an agenda.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Not a free for all.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: about the effect of adding 45 citizens on 1 maybe 2 factions here
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Lets first see if the Agenda is in order.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: ok
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: sure soro
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Any corrections, Additonal items?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: under item IIi.2 should we not have a vote on the Monastery?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Arria ask for that, and here she is.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol:
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Not my place to make amendments.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: At what point is the meeting adjourned for lack of quorum?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I'll hold out until 0930
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: because i don't want to stay for open discussion, but i don't want to leave if there is a chance something will happen
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: We can agree to 0930?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: sure
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: yes (reluctantly)
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I have sent Brian a Linden Tom-tom
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: can you send sonja one? (whatever that is)
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: sonja is traveling, she told me she requested 7 day
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: what the heck is a linden Tom Tom???
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I don't have her on my friends list.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: ah!
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: For those who accept e-mail IM's
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: My description of the process.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: hey, brian's online!
[2009/05/31 Sudane Erato: Brian is here
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: He is.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: whew!
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: Et voila.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: a close call, no?
[2009/05/31 Sudane Erato: rabbits!
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hello Brian -- consent to record please?
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: Hi all:-)
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: Hi all
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Please excuse my tardiness, I consent to recording
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hello Arria
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: hi arria <phew>
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Consent to record please
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: arria is here via Ajax Life so she's going to have to stand there the whole time
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I consent to record too
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Who?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: Ajax Life. it's a SL client that runs on the web
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Oh?
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I should be a cloud ...
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: in the browser...
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: we can see you arria standing proud!
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: We have a quorum.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: you look fine, but you're standing about three meters in front of me in the middle of the room
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: never mind arria ... your here!
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: ok, soro, I move that we add a vote on the Monastery to item III.2
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Second?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: second
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: great But I cannot move my avatar
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Discussion
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: IN favor?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: aye
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: of adding a vote right?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: aye
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale:
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Need three . . .
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Brian?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol pokes the bunny
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok reports Cindy to the RSPCA
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: sure
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: aye
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Opposed?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Carried.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Item III 2b is changed to "Vote"
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Any speakers on today's Agenda?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Non-RA
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale raises hand
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Yes Rose?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pat.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: well, do i have to speak now?
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: Raises hand provisionally.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: you asked for speakers
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Claude
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: on AA merger, when you get to it
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: On Monastery, I can speak
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: On today's Agenda items.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale reserves the right to speak on both voting items
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: One possible effect of AA merger and a brief SC report if there's time.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thanks, I have the list.
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: I'll reserve the right to speak on the voting items.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: lol. you are RA rabbit
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale:
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: You have that right as an RA member
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Eh, always afraid of crossing a line and BAM, stew... :p
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale peels carrots quietly...
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Llast admin item -- next meeting is June 13th -- as noted.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: june 13 is saturday....
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: is that correct?
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: *nods* June 14th is the sunday
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Item II on the Agenda -- we will change to June 14th.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: My error.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: ah, ok.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Counted days.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: I may not be able to attend so will ask now for a 7 day vote
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: used 13
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Noted
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Item II -- deferred to see if the Chancellor ever arrives.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm, Item III
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: General Master Plan.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Acession of AA.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Who is the proponent?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol looks at brian
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Sure, I'll do it
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: The chair notes a new proposal was issued by the Chancellor.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: This morning
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: well, I think we need to let Brian speak....
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Have you all had a chance to read it?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Brian?
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: I'd like to move to discuss this and the previous proposal.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: can we see this new proposal?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Proceed -- you are in order.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2438
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: PLease proceed Brian.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol seconds brian's motiion
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: After taking the concerns of RA members into consideration, Jamie revised the draft merger proposal to create a method for the CDS to dissolve the merger, as well as attempt to address the concerns over voting.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Discussion needs no vote
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: RA Reps, etc
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Continue
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Hmmm, point of order, am I amble to make my personal commentary and opinions at this point or am I just introducing?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: please introduce first brian so we all know what we're talking about
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Lets get the matter on the table
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Thank you
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Motion to amend the former proposal
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: As a whole, this proposal will create a mechanism to merge the CDS and AA communities and serve as a template for future such occurances.
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston is done
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol rases hand
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston raises hand to speak
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Brian next
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: Soro, since there was aproposal on the table from last meeting, I'd like to review that first. then we can modify
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: after discussion of course
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: That is in order.
[2009/05/31 Sudane Erato: sorry... musy go
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy -- comments about the proposal?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: this is the draft we looked at last time: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2394 scroll down to the May 14 section (second draft)
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: sorry -- may 17
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Please look everyone.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pat -- after Brian
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol looks expectantly at brian
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Brian . . .
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Your next
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: I'm just waiting for brian to explain his concerns with the proposal and how he'd like to amend it (if at all)
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I know -- poking bunny again . . .
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Ok, so at the last meeting, I expressed two concerns over this proposal; The first was regarding the unilateral ability for AA to dissolve this merger without an ability for the CDS to do the same. THe second concern was regarding teh effect of dual citizens on the makeup and suize of the RA
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston is typing, albeit slowly
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: kk
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: The first concern can be assuaded through modifying the proposal Jamie made in his third draft, which would create an option for the RA to dissolve the merger. However, I would like to propose that instead of a simple majority, that we require a super majority of 2/3rds to dissolve the merger, given the grave implications such an action would have on the community and citizens.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Procedural point.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Proposal is to modify which of Jamies writings?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: And then, is that proposal before us?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: (2nd draft is on the table, not third)
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Sorry, manner of speech. I'll formally propose modifying the second draft in a bit.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: That is what I understand.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Is the modification proposed to the third draft or the second?
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: I'm referring to the second draft.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: has to be to the second, soro
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Understand.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Brian -- you have the floor.
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Ok, The second concern is one that, after reading over the draft and our founding documents some, has me much less concerned. I was interested in the thought that a citizen of both the CDS and AA could count twice towards the size and makeup of the RA. However, I've come to realize that the addition of AA is not simply adding new population numbers, but also adding a large investment of time, effort, and capital. Members of that community, all members,a re invested in the interests of AA and should be represented as such for the interim period. In addition, I see their method of selection to be an internal community matter within the AA leading up to the formal merger when they would be seated.
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: In short, I support this legislation with the modifications to section 8 as previously stated.
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston is done
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins raises hand.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Are you moving to amend?
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Hmm, I can.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Would you?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Claude you are after Pat.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: second
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol:
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Move to change Section 8 to: " 8. CDS and AA agree that, on the one year anniversary of the actual sim relocation, and for seven calendar days thereafter:
(a) The AA EO may elect after consultation with AA citizens to notify the CDS government in writing that the AA EO wished to separate the six AA sims from CDS, as a separate estate.
(b) The CDS RA may by a 2/3rds majority vote, and posted notice of that vote to AA and CDS citizens, elect to re-separate the six AA sims from CDS, as a separate estate.
Upon receipt of either notice, if it occurs, CDS will give up any rights in control over the AA nonprofit entity and AA EO, and have no further liability for the AA sims; and the AA EO and residents will absolve CDS of any such further liability. In such event AA and CDS will work in reasonable good faith to achieve a smooth transition.
If neither notice is received by the end of the seventh calendar day, this option to separate is permanently terminated.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: ok, now second
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: "
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Motion is accepted
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Discussion -- first from the proponent
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Simply put, this will give the CDS equal footing in this merger to dissolve the agreement, but would require a supermajority, given the gravity of such a decision on the community and the citizens of the affected regions
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Thus, I recommend ammending this proposal as such.
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston is done
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pat
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: ty soro
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: You are next.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i hope you will move on to the third draft soon and consider my proposed constitutional amendment to enable the changes to take place
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i'm afraid the second draft on the table has some problems associated
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: and i think the 2/3 requirement might introduce some new ones!
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i don't think it's clear from the proposal how AA intends to select its representatives
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: the third draft was clearer in this respect in that it talked about 'democratically electing' them
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: so some clarity on that would be welcome i feel
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: on the 2/3 point just proposed though
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: are we saying that the RA needs to have a 2/3 majority to cancel the merger after a year but AA has a lower barrier?
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: presumably, if we agree that this is so important that the bar should be set higher
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: it should apply equally to both communities?
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: that's all
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Claude?
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: First - this matter was discussed at Friday's SC meeting - Jamie attended and his statements there might be enlightening given his absence today.
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: Transcript is: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2441
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: The question of adding reps, even temporary ones to the RA without a constitutional amendment....
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: ...has drawn the attention of the SC.
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: Second. this proposal could add as many as 45 new citizens.
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: If that addition happens close to a faction certification deadline. two of the three current factions would have to recruit very rapidly to remain legally viable.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: (*all* three, i think!)
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: As a citizen, I worry that growth which leads to a one party election would be a bad thing.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok worries as well
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: That isn't an issue until AA approves?
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: As to the constitutional amendment issue, it would be unfortunate for this carefully thought out and negotiated matter to be delayed by things getting tied up in the SC.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: Thank you.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: just wanted to respond to claude....
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: today's vote requires no constitutional amendment.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: it is merely a vote to extend a proposal to AA
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: If AA accepts that proposal, we'll have to deal with the constitutional issue
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: but not until then.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: done
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: is there a call of the question?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: I move the second draft as amended
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: second
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: on the amendment . . .
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Discussion
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pat?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Mr LRA, there was a personal emergency that detained me this morning; I see you are well underway but letme just apologise for being absent until now.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thank you Chancellor.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: yes, i wondered if anyon was able to answer my question about how AA will select its reps
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Not that I know.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Ready for the question
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i should have hoped that a legislature might want to know how the addtional members will be added
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: The question has been voted on.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Ready to vote on the main motion?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: As amended.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: i'd speak to it, but am counselled by the chair's advice that it's been resolved by this body.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: aye
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: aye
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol pokes the bunny again
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: aye
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Opposed?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Abstentions?
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: soro i think you are the only one left to vote
(continued)