RA Transcript: 31 May 2009

Announcements by the Leader of the Representative Assembly

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Cindy Ecksol
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Master Word Wielder
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RA Transcript: 31 May 2009

Post by Cindy Ecksol »

[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: That is for all to do. Please consent
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: consent to recording now please
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: Where is the recorder
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: black box under the table -- but don't touch, jus t consent in chat please
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I consent
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: I consent to being recorded.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: i consent to being recorded
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: hi everyone :)
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hello Pat.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: hi pat!
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: hi Pat!!
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Waiting for Brian and Jamie
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: no quorum :)
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I see that.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Waiting . . .
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami recalls that is often difficult to get a quorum at this stage of the RAs term :(
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i hope the meeting becomes quorate soon. if not, did you plan to hold a free discussion for anyone who wants to stay?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: That would be in order.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: great :)
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hello Sudane
[2009/05/31 Sudane Erato: hi :)
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: Hi su
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: hi sudane :)
[2009/05/31 Sudane Erato: hi hi
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Lets proceed, subject to ratification by the any quorum maker
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale raises brow
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: All consent to recordation?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: consent
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i consent
[2009/05/31 Sudane Erato: i do... if i say anything
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: but we can't do anything soro....
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: what su said
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I know Rose.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: But we can get to open discussion items.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Not those up for a vote.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: well, we could have an open discussion about *anything*! just no votes :)
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: in that case i have an item of discussion
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Wait one.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: We do have an agenda.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Not a free for all.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: about the effect of adding 45 citizens on 1 maybe 2 factions here
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Lets first see if the Agenda is in order.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: ok
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: sure soro :)
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Any corrections, Additonal items?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: under item IIi.2 should we not have a vote on the Monastery?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Arria ask for that, and here she is.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: :-)
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Not my place to make amendments.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: At what point is the meeting adjourned for lack of quorum?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I'll hold out until 0930
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: because i don't want to stay for open discussion, but i don't want to leave if there is a chance something will happen
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: We can agree to 0930?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: sure
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: yes (reluctantly)
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I have sent Brian a Linden Tom-tom
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: can you send sonja one? (whatever that is)
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: sonja is traveling, she told me she requested 7 day
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: what the heck is a linden Tom Tom???
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I don't have her on my friends list.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: ah!
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: For those who accept e-mail IM's
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: My description of the process.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: hey, brian's online!
[2009/05/31 Sudane Erato: Brian is here
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: He is.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: whew!
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: Et voila.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: a close call, no?
[2009/05/31 Sudane Erato: rabbits!
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hello Brian -- consent to record please?
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: Hi all:-)
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: Hi all
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Please excuse my tardiness, I consent to recording
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hello Arria
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: hi arria <phew>
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Consent to record please
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: arria is here via Ajax Life so she's going to have to stand there the whole time :-)
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I consent to record too
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Who?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: Ajax Life. it's a SL client that runs on the web
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Oh?
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I should be a cloud ...
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: in the browser...
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: we can see you arria :) standing proud!
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: We have a quorum.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: you look fine, but you're standing about three meters in front of me in the middle of the room :-)
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: never mind arria ... your here!
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: ok, soro, I move that we add a vote on the Monastery to item III.2
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Second?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: second
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: great :-) But I cannot move my avatar
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Discussion
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: IN favor?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: aye
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: of adding a vote right?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: aye
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: :)
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Need three . . .
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Brian?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol pokes the bunny
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok reports Cindy to the RSPCA
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: sure
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: aye
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Opposed?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Carried.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Item III 2b is changed to "Vote"
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Any speakers on today's Agenda?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Non-RA
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale raises hand
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Yes Rose?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pat.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: well, do i have to speak now?
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: Raises hand provisionally. :)
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: you asked for speakers :-)
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Claude
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: on AA merger, when you get to it :)
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: On Monastery, I can speak
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: On today's Agenda items.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale reserves the right to speak on both voting items
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: One possible effect of AA merger and a brief SC report if there's time.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thanks, I have the list.
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: I'll reserve the right to speak on the voting items.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: lol. you are RA rabbit
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: :)
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: You have that right as an RA member
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Eh, always afraid of crossing a line and BAM, stew... :p
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale peels carrots quietly...
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Llast admin item -- next meeting is June 13th -- as noted.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: june 13 is saturday....
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: is that correct?
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: *nods* June 14th is the sunday
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Item II on the Agenda -- we will change to June 14th.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: My error.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: ah, ok.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Counted days.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: I may not be able to attend so will ask now for a 7 day vote
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: used 13
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Noted
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Item II -- deferred to see if the Chancellor ever arrives.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm, Item III
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: General Master Plan.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Acession of AA.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Who is the proponent?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol looks at brian
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Sure, I'll do it :)
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: The chair notes a new proposal was issued by the Chancellor.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: This morning :(
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: well, I think we need to let Brian speak....
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Have you all had a chance to read it?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Brian?
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: I'd like to move to discuss this and the previous proposal.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: can we see this new proposal?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Proceed -- you are in order.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2438
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: PLease proceed Brian.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol seconds brian's motiion
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: After taking the concerns of RA members into consideration, Jamie revised the draft merger proposal to create a method for the CDS to dissolve the merger, as well as attempt to address the concerns over voting.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Discussion needs no vote
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: RA Reps, etc
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Continue
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Hmmm, point of order, am I amble to make my personal commentary and opinions at this point or am I just introducing?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: please introduce first brian so we all know what we're talking about
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Lets get the matter on the table
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Thank you :)
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Motion to amend the former proposal
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: As a whole, this proposal will create a mechanism to merge the CDS and AA communities and serve as a template for future such occurances.
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston is done
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol rases hand
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston raises hand to speak
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Brian next
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: Soro, since there was aproposal on the table from last meeting, I'd like to review that first. then we can modify
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: after discussion of course
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: That is in order.
[2009/05/31 Sudane Erato: sorry... musy go
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy -- comments about the proposal?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: this is the draft we looked at last time: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2394 scroll down to the May 14 section (second draft)
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: sorry -- may 17
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Please look everyone.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pat -- after Brian
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol looks expectantly at brian
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Brian . . .
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Your next
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: I'm just waiting for brian to explain his concerns with the proposal and how he'd like to amend it (if at all)
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I know -- poking bunny again . . .
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Ok, so at the last meeting, I expressed two concerns over this proposal; The first was regarding the unilateral ability for AA to dissolve this merger without an ability for the CDS to do the same. THe second concern was regarding teh effect of dual citizens on the makeup and suize of the RA
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston is typing, albeit slowly
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: kk
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: The first concern can be assuaded through modifying the proposal Jamie made in his third draft, which would create an option for the RA to dissolve the merger. However, I would like to propose that instead of a simple majority, that we require a super majority of 2/3rds to dissolve the merger, given the grave implications such an action would have on the community and citizens.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Procedural point.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Proposal is to modify which of Jamies writings?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: And then, is that proposal before us?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: (2nd draft is on the table, not third)
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Sorry, manner of speech. I'll formally propose modifying the second draft in a bit.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: That is what I understand.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Is the modification proposed to the third draft or the second?
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: I'm referring to the second draft.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: has to be to the second, soro
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Understand.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Brian -- you have the floor.
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Ok, The second concern is one that, after reading over the draft and our founding documents some, has me much less concerned. I was interested in the thought that a citizen of both the CDS and AA could count twice towards the size and makeup of the RA. However, I've come to realize that the addition of AA is not simply adding new population numbers, but also adding a large investment of time, effort, and capital. Members of that community, all members,a re invested in the interests of AA and should be represented as such for the interim period. In addition, I see their method of selection to be an internal community matter within the AA leading up to the formal merger when they would be seated.
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: In short, I support this legislation with the modifications to section 8 as previously stated.
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston is done
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins raises hand.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Are you moving to amend?
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Hmm, I can.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Would you?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Claude you are after Pat.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: second
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: :-)
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Move to change Section 8 to: " 8. CDS and AA agree that, on the one year anniversary of the actual sim relocation, and for seven calendar days thereafter:
(a) The AA EO may elect after consultation with AA citizens to notify the CDS government in writing that the AA EO wished to separate the six AA sims from CDS, as a separate estate.
(b) The CDS RA may by a 2/3rds majority vote, and posted notice of that vote to AA and CDS citizens, elect to re-separate the six AA sims from CDS, as a separate estate.
Upon receipt of either notice, if it occurs, CDS will give up any rights in control over the AA nonprofit entity and AA EO, and have no further liability for the AA sims; and the AA EO and residents will absolve CDS of any such further liability. In such event AA and CDS will work in reasonable good faith to achieve a smooth transition.
If neither notice is received by the end of the seventh calendar day, this option to separate is permanently terminated.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: ok, now second
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: "
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Motion is accepted
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Discussion -- first from the proponent
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Simply put, this will give the CDS equal footing in this merger to dissolve the agreement, but would require a supermajority, given the gravity of such a decision on the community and the citizens of the affected regions
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Thus, I recommend ammending this proposal as such.
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston is done
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pat
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: ty soro :)
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: You are next.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i hope you will move on to the third draft soon and consider my proposed constitutional amendment to enable the changes to take place
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i'm afraid the second draft on the table has some problems associated
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: and i think the 2/3 requirement might introduce some new ones!
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i don't think it's clear from the proposal how AA intends to select its representatives
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: the third draft was clearer in this respect in that it talked about 'democratically electing' them
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: so some clarity on that would be welcome i feel
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: on the 2/3 point just proposed though
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: are we saying that the RA needs to have a 2/3 majority to cancel the merger after a year but AA has a lower barrier?
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: presumably, if we agree that this is so important that the bar should be set higher
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: it should apply equally to both communities?
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: that's all
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Claude?
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: First - this matter was discussed at Friday's SC meeting - Jamie attended and his statements there might be enlightening given his absence today.
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: Transcript is: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2441
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: The question of adding reps, even temporary ones to the RA without a constitutional amendment....
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: ...has drawn the attention of the SC.
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: Second. this proposal could add as many as 45 new citizens.
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: If that addition happens close to a faction certification deadline. two of the three current factions would have to recruit very rapidly to remain legally viable.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: (*all* three, i think!)
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: As a citizen, I worry that growth which leads to a one party election would be a bad thing.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok worries as well
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: That isn't an issue until AA approves?
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: As to the constitutional amendment issue, it would be unfortunate for this carefully thought out and negotiated matter to be delayed by things getting tied up in the SC.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: Thank you.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: just wanted to respond to claude....
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: today's vote requires no constitutional amendment.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: it is merely a vote to extend a proposal to AA
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: If AA accepts that proposal, we'll have to deal with the constitutional issue
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: but not until then.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: done
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: is there a call of the question?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: I move the second draft as amended
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: second
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: on the amendment . . .
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Discussion
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pat?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Mr LRA, there was a personal emergency that detained me this morning; I see you are well underway but letme just apologise for being absent until now.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thank you Chancellor.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: yes, i wondered if anyon was able to answer my question about how AA will select its reps
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Not that I know.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Ready for the question
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i should have hoped that a legislature might want to know how the addtional members will be added
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: The question has been voted on.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Ready to vote on the main motion?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: As amended.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: i'd speak to it, but am counselled by the chair's advice that it's been resolved by this body.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: aye
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: aye
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol pokes the bunny again
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: aye
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Opposed?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Abstentions?
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: soro i think you are the only one left to vote


Cindy Ecksol
Master Word Wielder
Master Word Wielder
Posts: 449
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:37 pm

Re: RA Transcript: 31 May 2009

Post by Cindy Ecksol »

(continued from previous post)

[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: No need unless a negative vote.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Mr LRA, may ai raise a point about that proceurally?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: I believe tjhat n the case of a vote where anyone might argue constitutionaliyu ...
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: .. the presence of 5 voes woudl be legalyl significant later
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I understand.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: So I cast an aye.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades nods
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Motion carried.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol notes that sonja requested 7 day vote
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: We are running late.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thank you all for your hard work on this.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Item III 2. Monestary
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Proponent?
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: Should I say something?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: i propose it
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Second?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok hopes arria now takes the floor
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Second?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Poke the bunny!
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: second
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Arria -- you may speak to it
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades raises hand also,on this one
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... 395#p13241
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Don't know where to poke Arria :)
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: Can I, Soro?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades smiles, takes hand down - yup, that's what I was going to mention. Pip, can we take that as the substance of your motion?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: yes
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Arria you are allowed to speak.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I take it you want the motion passed?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Any other discussion?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale raises hand
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: aye
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: whoops!
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: aye
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale withdraws hand lol
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston sorta would liek to hear the remaining opinions before voting
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I ask.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades raises eye brow at chair? I can speak briefly in favor if you like
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: I think rose had something to say
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: waiting to be recognized
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami gave you PCA Article VII Merger with other Communities.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: (amd Arria seems to have significant technical trouble)
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: The chair will accept that the call for vote was premature.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Rose, then Jamie.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: thanks
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Then Arria.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: i have a couple of questions
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: i've raised a few times the issue of homestead over full prim sim for this project, but have never seen it discussed, here or in guild
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: second.. CDS buys the homestead... does CDS get teh payments for the sale of the parcels?
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: done
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy -- would take the chair for a moment.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: need to go afk for a sec.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: ok
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: Arria, can you respond?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: or Jamie if arria is unable
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: ?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: (Arria is typing)
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I have always told that Monastery works with exhibitions and not with events
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok sees arrias avi typing but sees no chat
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale raises hand for follow up
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: we have a regular affluence and not a big venue for a short moment
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: )I'll ask to comment on this firt question of Rose's after Arria speaks)
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: so there is no problem of performances for the Monastery
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol notes jamie's request
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Arria, I think Rose's question was, who pays for the sim purchase, and who gets the original sales recveune from the real estate parcels?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: and what class of sim does your proposal plan to buy?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Back
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol passes baton back to soro and notes that jamie is next up to speak followed by rose
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: arria still has the floor.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: kk
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: as I have understood from your draft of proposal and as the RA as voted last year, it will be a normal CDS expansion sim
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I have engaged myself to pay the fees for 4 months
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: so full prim sim and CDS gets the purchase revenue?
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: but the CDS get the money for the parcels as normally
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: um. Keeping my hand raised here.
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: no full prim sim
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: it is clear in the proposal: it is a homestead sim
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: jamie I know your there.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: :)
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Arria are you done?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: yes
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: for that question
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: It is my unerstanding, to elaborate, that
(a) the proposal, which i remind you is here: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... 159#p13159
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: , says it's a homestead class sim ...
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: (b) CDS will pay the purchase price
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: (c) Virtus has bsically guaranteed 'CDS tier' rental income to for a period
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: (d) that revenue comes back to CDS as always
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: and finally
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: (e) the Virtus people hacve acknwoledged that the homestead class sim will limit thior ability to run events, AND the popujlation of the other six lots we add ...
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: so
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok hopes CDS takes advantage of the "grandfather before July1st" option LL has announces
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: :-)
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: indeed :) this will if passes be an experiment in whether those small lots can be attractive on a homestead sim
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: we don't know :) I support the experiment, though, and the RA CAN work with virtus to adjust prim use on the land as needed
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: like all CDS builds, our artisans for the sim
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: in this case arria and ulysse
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: will work with us under CDS law to make common prim use, and prim count for ocupied land, appropriate. Thanks, done
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Rose?
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: yes, thanks
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: i am in support of the monasteery sim
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: i'm opposed to locating a homestead sim in this location, and opposed to a public project being limited from the outset
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: while Arria says she doesnt' do events. i'll remind you all that the monastery just in February participated in the Grand Tour
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: which brought in more than the 20 avatar limit
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: it was an exception. we usually don't do that
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: i've had direct experience with homesteads and even minor events, and to locate a homestead in the middle of the CDS project will not just limit it, but the CDS project too
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: so i'd like to see it be a regular sim
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: done
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pat
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hello Leon, welcome.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: didn't the RA just vote to add AA, including 4 homestead sims, to the CDS? why is this situation so radically different?
[2009/05/31 Leon Ash: Thank you Soro, hi all
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Wait one please -- Leon please consent to recordation?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: thanks.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: to respond to pat, there IS a difference...
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades leaves hand in air as well, for after Rose's Qs to Arria
[2009/05/31 Leon Ash: Sure thing Soro, please refreshg my memory about which object is the recorder.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: the monastery proposal has much more going on than the homesteads in AA....
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: The consent is in chat
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: those are one-function, one-person spaces really. the monastery is intended to be visited...a lot, I hope!
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: and the monastery is smack dab in the center of CDS
[2009/05/31 Leon Ash: I give consent to be recorded. Although visual copyright remains with the creator of the avatar
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: whiel the homesteads for AA are more like "extra space" for attached full sims
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: Mr LRA, a potential proposal:
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: You have a motion?
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I study the way people visit since months. It is a regular venue, but not many people at the same time.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: could we add a contingency to the Monastery bill that we revisit usage after a certain time with the intent of requiring an upgrade?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Is there a second?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: it's not yet a motion: neeeds input and wordsmithing
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok wd support such an amendment
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale raises hand again
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Then do you wish to move postponement?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades smiles, rolls eyes, would like to talk to such an amendment if it comes into being
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: not a motion soro, needs discussion....
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: rose has her hand up....
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy, it is not on topic, and changes the proposal
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Rose?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Then Jamie
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: The idea is to put the Monastery on an homestead sim and not on a normal sim. We need space around.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: Re the AA homesteads, if you read the discussions on relocation, you'll see that one of the things beign considered is the upgrade of at least someo f those sims for this very reason
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: secondly, if the AA merger goest through, there wiill be a non profit organization at the disposal of CDS
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: this would be available to acquire a full prim sim for the monastery and less cost than a homestead
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: and not limit the future of either the monastery or the cds
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol likes the possibilties......
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I will not move the Monastery on a normal sim, even potentially
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm . . . .
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: why?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: There appear to be structural disagreement.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Jamie you were next.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: What if the cost of that sim, owned by CDS, was lower than a homstead, Arria?
[2009/05/31 Leon Ash: Sorry for the short visit, but it is time for me to dash.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Take care.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol waves to leon
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Mr LRA ,let me see if I can get that issue posed to Arria, as the original designer, before commenting otherwise
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Cheers Leon
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: if the Monastery goes on a full sim, it will be the same than today: a parcel without extension around
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: so better not move
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: it was one of the conditions of the projects: see my text on the forums
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm, why is that so?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: why wd it be such a parcel, Arria?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Arria, I undersatnd that the POSITION is a fixed requirement. fro Virtus. If we could leave it in its place - and upgrade it to full sim - with no cost to Virtus and minimal cost to CDS - i that a problem?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: (Arria has a limited connection so I am trying to frame things conveniently for her, sorry)
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: sorry I have an important call. please
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pat
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades hmmmmms, leavs his own hand raised for after the conclusion of arria's response
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pat
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: isn't the problem that the Monastery proposal has been designed on the basis of a homestead sim and therefore, changing the proposal to a full sim at the last minute, fundamentally alters it?
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: the sim layout, maps, and economics have all been worked out on the homestead basis
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale has been raising this issue for months
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: if you change it to a full sim, you need more parcels, more tenants etc to make it pay
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: No. Use a non-profit.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: so you just go back to what we have now - the Monastery in AM - with no benefit for moving it
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: Also .. once that proposal has been implemeented ... cant we just wait and see what happens, as Cindy implies?
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i'm afraid the non-profit route is still to be determined
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: it's putting the proposal into the long grass
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: It is.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i prefer cindy's option of a review after getting it set up
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: that's all
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: and me
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: OK
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pip next.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: There seem to be two issues raised. One is whether we CAN change type of sim later, without voiding the deal with Virtus, and without making the economics untenable. I do not know.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: I think it;s worth reserving that option
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: nothing except that cindys potentiel prosal leaves all options open ...
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: andwe wold do so with the understandin gthat we have to work with Virtus too, to make it work
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: but I see a lot of possibility here in the upgrade and nonprofit options ,,, as later paths to be debated collaboratively.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Not fair to Arris to try and resolve it today, i think.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Second issue
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy follows Pip.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Jamie has the floor.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Sim traffic load. Might I suggest that Rose briefly describe AA's experience with the "Library" void sim build, and its events and AA traffic, and explain how she thinks the Monastery presents a different case? I am not sure I see the difference, but would like to hear her take from a concrete example.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: done
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: done
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: thx
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pip
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale wil reply when recognized
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: nothing more to add
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Rose
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: cindy next i think?
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I am back
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hold one.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Arria please read the chat.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy is next.
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: ok
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: The rose, then Arria.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Proceed
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I have to rush you all, but we are running late.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: i see them as exactly alike .. the library sim and the monastery and exactly why it is my hope that we will use the additional homesteads in the AA project to upgrade the library and also the nature preserve
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: being that we're running late....
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: sorry, out of order :(
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: I'd like to move that we defer the vote on the monastery until next meeting
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: is there a second?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: seconded
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Non - debatetable
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: In favor?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: aye
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: for me it's easy: if I cannot get a homestead in CDS, maybe on an other place of the GMP (maybe in the moutains), I will look for a solution outside CDS
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: aye
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Sorry Arria, a nondebateable motion . . . Cindy
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: aye
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: opposed?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Matter moved to next meeting.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: As a voted matter.
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I have studied the problem in details and the Monastery must be on a homestead.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Please post and revisions in the forum
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: We are late.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: There were items for the SC?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: Arria a link to the reasons you state wd be helpful ...
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Apologies again for my part in the lateness, ladies and gentlemen.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Does anyone want to make motions to have those matters heard?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Or should we postpone?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Hm, fooey we lost Claude
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Delia? is action needed?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: imo we postpone ...
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: the main reason is space and quiet place
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I don't work with event
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: understood
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Arria -- post that in the forums for all to read, please
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I can only think to take an other place on GMP, in the higher mounains
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Mr LKRAm on Arria;s behalf, I would like to point out that she is working with very bad lag conditions, and we wll need to give her the chance to fully understand and work with us on any changes.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pip has made a motion to postpone the SC matters.
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: or join an other community
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I understand Jamie.
[2009/05/31 Delia Lake: yes, we can postpone the SC. the issues are important but not urgent
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Is there a second.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: second
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: aye
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: aye
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: aye
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Opposed?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Motion carried.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Now we can adjourn and carry on discussions to resolve Arria's issues
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Motion to adjourn?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Welcom Bromo
[2009/05/31 Bromo Ivory smiles
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Is there a motion to adjourn?
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: tell me what I should do?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Wait a second, lets get out of session.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale winks at Bromo
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I guess we are adjourned?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: I must run -- I am playing a waltz party at the Opera at 1pm
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thank you Cindy.

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