far more than one.

[Kendra Bancroft]

"Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why the "Plural" in "Neualtenburgers", Pat? There is only one, Kendra...
Moon Adamant: lol, yes "

*cough*

We have over 25 people attached to the Projekt in general as supporters
5 Journeymen
6 Meisters
1 Gildemeister.

We have as a team successfully completed a 5 sim wide recreation of a New England town and countryside.

Port Neualtenburg is a thriving artist's community which has paid tier on it's land from it's own income 2 months running, last month in profit of it's tier by a factor of 2.

We have no ill will towards you of Neufreistadt --so why the bullshit remarks?

[Claude Desmoulins]

Kendra,

1. I don't speak for Gwyn, PAt, Moon or anyone but myself.

2. I am glad to see Port Neualtenburg doing well.

3. The quotation you reference here is absent much in the way of context.

Given all that, when I saw your question, the thought which crossed my mind was that, rather than referring to the size of the Port Neualtenburg community, Gwyn's statement might be a comment your decision to keep all the authority in PN. Of course you'd have to ask Gwyn to be certain.

Whatever you may think of our "bureaucracy" and whatever one might think of the apparent autocracy in PN, the question of who has what powers is clearly a point on which our two communities have made different choices.

[Kendra Bancroft]

Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have a CHICKEN!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Jon Seattle laughs
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Phoenix was Moon's suggestion...
Moon Adamant: well, i was doing a proposal with a phoenix...
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, a very good looking one as well.
Moon Adamant: but it's stopped, days only having 24 hours, lol
Jon Seattle: How about a phieonix chicken?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But you've never finished it, Moon, so there were only two designs to choose....
Patroklus Murakami: well, with all that avian influenza going round a chicken is a really bad idea!
Moon Adamant: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: .... and yes, Jon
Jon Seattle: that would fit perhaps
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww Pat!
Yogeswari Padar: ha ha ha
Patroklus Murakami: let teh neualtenburgers keep the diseased chicken
Moon Adamant: LOL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sniggers*
Jon Seattle laughs
Moon Adamant: ... that's generous of us
Moon Adamant:
Yogeswari Padar: oooo, bad
Jon Seattle: We are all getting tired I think..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why the "Plural" in "Neualtenburgers", Pat? There is only one, Kendra...
Moon Adamant: lol, yes
Patroklus Murakami: lol, true gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn:

[Diderot Mirabeau]

With the danger in mind that I may simply be contributing to keeping alive a mud-slinging contest I venture nevertheless to submit my humble observations in extension of what has been said already.

I spoke with Gwyneth the other day at length and by chance the conversation happened to fall upon the subject of Port Neualtenburg to which Gwyneth remarked immediately that she hoped they were doing well (I hope you will forgive me for revealing this information, Gwyneth)

It is therefore clear to me that Gwyneth harbours no personal grudges against the autocrat of Port Neualtenburg.

That this community is able to foster growth artistically and commercially while at the same time Neufreistadt experiences its largest boom so far should be a cause of mutual joy for our respective societies rather than be the cause of animosity.

Even if I were not present at the inauguration ceremony it is obvious to me that Gwyneth's remark was made in a light hearted context and was not meant to cause grief. In fact it could easily be interpreted in a much more favourable light than the one in which the original poster has chosen to shroud it: It could well be construed that Kendra Bancroft is the only _real_ Neualtenburger, which would I assume imply some form of compliment.

It is difficult for me to understand how one light hearted remark that could even be interpreted favourably, which was made in an atmosphere of jest and buried in a transcript of what? maybe 1,000 lines deserves to be scrutinised to this extent. That it is nevertheless the case could lead to all sorts of interesting psychological explanations from which I shall in this case desist in the interest of a constructive climate of discussion and understanding.

[Kendra Bancroft]

[quote="Diderot Mirabeau":7lwxxyci]With the danger in mind that I may simply be contributing to keeping alive a mud-slinging contest I venture nevertheless to submit my humble observations in extension of what has been said already.

I spoke with Gwyneth the other day at length and by chance the conversation happened to fall upon the subject of Port Neualtenburg to which Gwyneth remarked immediately that she hoped they were doing well (I hope you will forgive me for revealing this information, Gwyneth)

It is therefore clear to me that Gwyneth harbours no personal grudges against the autocrat of Port Neualtenburg.

That this community is able to foster growth artistically and commercially while at the same time Neufreistadt experiences its largest boom so far should be a cause of mutual joy for our respective societies rather than be the cause of animosity.

Even if I were not present at the inauguration ceremony it is obvious to me that Gwyneth's remark was made in a light hearted context and was not meant to cause grief. In fact it could easily be interpreted in a much more favourable light than the one in which the original poster has chosen to shroud it: It could well be construed that Kendra Bancroft is the only _real_ Neualtenburger, which would I assume imply some form of compliment.

It is difficult for me to understand how one light hearted remark that could even be interpreted favourably, which was made in an atmosphere of jest and buried in a transcript of what? maybe 1,000 lines deserves to be scrutinised to this extent. That it is nevertheless the case could lead to all sorts of interesting psychological explanations from which I shall in this case desist in the interest of a constructive climate of discussion and understanding.[/quote:7lwxxyci]

How about not being so disingenuous, Dido, and please don't tell me how to feel about what is clearly a knock -- to anyone who can read.

I wish you people well. Now how about doing the same for us.

It's time to stop this. BTW --I would have loved to come to the Ball --if I had actually gotten an invitation or even known about it.

I posted this bit --because I actually had some of our merchants complain to me after reading it --I also recieved instant messages of concern from people who suddenly thought I was going out of business.

If you folks are going to publish transcripts of official meetings then do try to act with some decorum. This was not a transcript of an innauguration party --this was a transcript of the CSDF meeting held on August 3rd.

[Pelanor Eldrich]

Hi Kendra,

I'm the master of ceremonies at the Ball, and while Salzie has been handling the invitations, I'd like to cordially invite you to attend.

I'd also like to apologize for any bullshit comments I personally have made about PN. Sometimes we just blow off steam. It was wrong of me nonetheless and I'm glad we have someone with tact like Salzie handling the public information officer post.

I wish Port Neualtenburg every success and I sincerely hope to see you at the ball. -Pel

[Brian Livingston]

I think it is quite important to distinguish that the comments of the CSDF do not represent those of the rest of the citizen base, the official city position, or the position of the DPU. In addition, (and I am going out on a limb here) chances are that these comments were the off-the-cuff variety of remarks and do not represent the official positio nof the CSDF. Nevertheless, as a citizen of Neufreistadt and a member of neither faction (former MPP member), I am hoping that our two groups can get along better in the future.

Regards,

BL

[Kendra Bancroft]

[quote="Pelanor Eldrich":14zom8h7]Hi Kendra,

I'm the master of ceremonies at the Ball, and while Salzie has been handling the invitations, I'd like to cordially invite you to attend.

I'd also like to apologize for any bullshit comments I personally have made about PN. Sometimes we just blow off steam. It was wrong of me nonetheless and I'm glad we have someone with tact like Salzie handling the public information officer post.

I wish Port Neualtenburg every success and I sincerely hope to see you at the ball. -Pel[/quote:14zom8h7]

I'd be honored to attend. Thankyou.

[Patroklus Murakami]

Kendra is correct. The comments were made at the CSDF meeting held on 3 August and published on the forums because we publish the transcripts of our faction meetings in the interests of transparency. If you read the rest of the transcript you'll see that we spent a lot of time discussing the proposals for an Executive branch and that the comments were made at the end of the meeting when we were all a little tired (past midnight and past my bedtime:)).

I can only speak for myself here. My comments, "diseased chicken" were lighthearted and not meant to cause offence to the Neualtenburgers. Respectfully, I think you're being a little oversensitive here Kendra. We don't censor ourselves in meetings, we say what we think and I would hate to arrive at a situation where we felt that some things shouldn't be said because of the offence that might be caused.

I'd like to bury the hatchet too, but that will take movement on both sides (I seem to recall reference to the 'fascist walled city of Neufreistadt' not too long ago).

Perhaps we could do that at the Ball? My understanding was that you had been invited. It would be good to see you there if you could come.

[Kendra Bancroft]

[quote="Brian Livingston":1nfit6fe]I think it is quite important to distinguish that the comments of the CSDF do not represent those of the rest of the citizen base, the official city position, or the position of the DPU. In addition, (and I am going out on a limb here) chances are that these comments were the off-the-cuff variety of remarks and do not represent the official positio nof the CSDF. Nevertheless, as a citizen of Neufreistadt and a member of neither faction (former MPP member), I am hoping that our two groups can get along better in the future.

Regards,

BL[/quote:1nfit6fe]

Then perhaps the SC needs to censure the CSDF for comments against another micronation which it hopes to one day gain more favorable relations with.

Barring that the SC needs to post a disclaimer --or an explanation why the head of it's SC flippantly disregards the needs of it's own community to establish good relations with arguably one if it's better potential trade partners.

I am trying to stay in good stead with Neufreistadt, but remarks such as the ones in the transcript to do not help me keep my own citizens from lobbing verbal hand grenades over the walls of your City.

Considering the meeting was known to be recorded and to be posted on the website forum run by the very same person who made the comment (The head of your SC and most recignized citizen), I counter that it is presented as official.

The comments (or the decision to post them) needs to be addressed.

[Claude Desmoulins]

You certainly raise important issues here:

1) What is the official status or lack thereof of political factions/chartered institutions (MoCA, etc.) and the like?

2) What status do a person's other roles confer or not confer on statements made outside of functioning in those roles?

[Kendra Bancroft]

[quote="Patroklus Murakami":3oqoeia0]Kendra is correct. The comments were made at the CSDF meeting held on 3 August and published on the forums because we publish the transcripts of our faction meetings in the interests of transparency. If you read the rest of the transcript you'll see that we spent a lot of time discussing the proposals for an Executive branch and that the comments were made at the end of the meeting when we were all a little tired (past midnight and past my bedtime:)).

I can only speak for myself here. My comments, "diseased chicken" were lighthearted and not meant to cause offence to the Neualtenburgers. Respectfully, I think you're being a little oversensitive here Kendra. We don't censor ourselves in meetings, we say what we think and I would hate to arrive at a situation where we felt that some things shouldn't be said because of the offence that might be caused.

I'd like to bury the hatchet too, but that will take movement on both sides (I seem to recall reference to the 'fascist walled city of Neufreistadt' not too long ago).

Perhaps we could do that at the Ball? My understanding was that you had been invited. It would be good to see you there if you could come.[/quote:3oqoeia0]

The chicken joke was funny.

The reference to my being the lone Neualtenburger was not. It is factually incorrect.

As your ruling party the DPU believes in "privatization" of the City to outside corporations and seeks to weaken the Artisinal Branch (which represents your labor class) all in the name of rallying around "national" pride in your identity as a micronation --you are arguably at the very least fascist leaning. A Democracy can be fascist you know. The walled city as an term to describe you is accurate beyond question.

[Patroklus Murakami]

[quote="Kendra Bancroft":2mry4eno]
As your ruling party the DPU believes in "privatization" of the City to outside corporations and seeks to weaken the Artisinal Branch (which represents your labor class) all in the name of rallying around "national" pride in your identity as a micronation --you are arguably at the very least fascist leaning. A Democracy can be fascist you know. The walled city as an term to describe you is accurate beyond question.[/quote:2mry4eno]

Oh come on! You can't seriously be trying to justify calling us fascists at the same time as complaining that we're throwing mud at Neualtenburg? There's no way that the description 'fascist' could accurately be used of the DPU, the CSDF or the government of NFS. I don't think it could even be used to describe any individuals in NFS. You should retract that, it is unworthy of you.

The CSDF also called for reform of the Guild, does that make us fascist?

While we're on the subject, the Guild's role in government is an example of 'corporativism', one of the defining features of fascism. You could argue that the old Neualtenburg was more fascist than what we are proposing but it wouldn't really help matters, would it? Why don't we leave those insults out of our discussions?

[Kendra Bancroft]

[quote="Patroklus Murakami":2jnkc0sv][quote="Kendra Bancroft":2jnkc0sv]
As your ruling party the DPU believes in "privatization" of the City to outside corporations and seeks to weaken the Artisinal Branch (which represents your labor class) all in the name of rallying around "national" pride in your identity as a micronation --you are arguably at the very least fascist leaning. A Democracy can be fascist you know. The walled city as an term to describe you is accurate beyond question.[/quote:2jnkc0sv]

Oh come on! You can't seriously be trying to justify calling us fascists at the same time as complaining that we're throwing mud at Neualtenburg? There's no way that the description 'fascist' could accurately be used of the DPU, the CSDF or the government of NFS. I don't think it could even be used to describe any individuals in NFS. You should retract that, it is unworthy of you.

The CSDF also called for reform of the Guild, does that make us fascist?

While we're on the subject, the Guild's role in government is an example of 'corporativism', one of the defining features of fascism. You could argue that the old Neualtenburg was more fascist than what we are proposing.[/quote:2jnkc0sv]

Of course you could argue that. Then you would be having a debate.

It's not mud slinging to opine that a political sim is moving in a particular directional drift towards the right. The fact is that certain criteria of fascism is easily observable in Neufreistadt. I personally think that if you feel insulted by that label, you might wish to be active in stopping the drift rather than simply complaining about an ex-pat's observations. At the very least some self-examination rather than terse denial might be in order.

As far as statements made that imply that I am the only Neualtenburger left?
That's not even debatable. Your Government (thru this board) and you (on the LL boards) claim N'burgers are throwing brickbats at you while you are blameless.

A quick search of Ulrika, Kendra or Port Neualtenburg on your own forums quickly demonstrates that this forum has many more bricks being thrown /by/ Neufreistadters than/at/ them.

[Patroklus Murakami]

[quote="Kendra Bancroft":1llkdbv0]A quick search of Ulrika, Kendra or Port Neualtenburg on your own forums quickly demonstrates that this forum has many more bricks being thrown /by/ Neufreistadters than/at/ them.[/quote:1llkdbv0]

And a quick search of recent posts on the subject of Neufreistadt on the LL forums would reveal more than one snipe coming our way. I'll admit that some members of NFS (myself included though I've tried really hard not to take the bait) have hit out at PN and Ulrika in particular. Is it really hard to understand why (even if it is regrettable and counterproductive)?

A recent example can be found [url=http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread ... 5:1llkdbv0]here[/url:1llkdbv0] at post 29.

My point is that there is blame on both sides and both you and Ulrika have done your fair share of mud-slinging.

Now Gwyn is big enough and ugly enough to look after herself , but I could easily have made the same remarks. Here's why (and try not to get too offended):

[list:1llkdbv0]The Neualtenburg Projekt forums haven't had a single post on them for over a month. They used to be the most intelligent forums on the LL site, after getting 'into' them I all but gave up on the arid wasteland of 'Political Science' and 'Land and the Economy'. Their decline is not a sign of a healthy project, in my opinion.
The inworld Neualtenburg group has 26 members and the Neualtenburg Projekt 18. I assume that some are alts or inactive members; a decline for sure and much less healthy than Neufreistadt.
I've visited Port Neualtenburg once and I like what you've done with it, you are a talented builder. But I don't see much evidence of activity beyond the shops that occupy part of the space.[/list:u:1llkdbv0]

So, on the basis of the evidence before me, I would have concurred that Port Neualtenburg was 'just Kendra'. Now I know that I would have been wrong and that you have completed a major project as a team.

Can we stop fighting now and look forward to the Ball?