The executive and a federal structure - an idea

Here you might discuss basically everything.

Moderator: SC Moderators

User avatar
Patroklus Murakami
Forum Wizard
Forum Wizard
Posts: 1929
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:54 pm

Re: Constitutional Amendment is needed

Post by Patroklus Murakami »

[quote="Claude Desmoulins":133l9qlr]If you follow that reasoning, no one has the constitutional authority to make land use decisions. Nevertheless, land use decisions are made.[/quote:133l9qlr]

Quite :). It is indeed possible that land use decisions are made when no one has the vires to do so. That in fact is what I am contending, that the Constitution makes no provision for land use decisions and that, therefore, the RA is unable to delegate powers which it does not possess. One of the problems we have discovered is that our Constitution is full of holes, institutions and individuals have filled the vacuum in order to make sure that things get done. That does not mean, however, that they have Constitutional authority to do so. I'm afraid the supporters of this Bill really cannot have it both ways. You cannot argue, on the one hand that the Bill does not take any powers away from the Guild (because the Constitution doesn't say it has them) while on the other hand arguing that the RA can delegate powers because it has always made such decisions (even though the Constitution does not confer such powers to the RA)!

The CC&R provides some comfort for the DPU proposal here in that it says that "all covenants are subordinate to city laws and zoning guidelines". However, I would contend that land use falls squarely within the ambit of 'zoning guidelines'. Where does the Constitution say that the RA is empowered to issue such guidelines?

I think Ashcroft may be correct in surmising that, following this line of reasoning, some or all of the following acts of the RA may be ultra vires: fountain, flag, planning legislation, limited companies. The fact that such potential abrogrations of responsibility have not previously been picked up on does not make a further unconstitutional bill any more valid. The case for comprehensive constitutional reform to address these issues is clearly greater than we had thought.

User avatar
Ashcroft Burnham
Forum Wizard
Forum Wizard
Posts: 1093
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:21 pm

Re: Constitutional Amendment is needed

Post by Ashcroft Burnham »

[quote="Patroklus Murakami":1fgav9pn]Quite :). It is indeed possible that land use decisions are made when no one has the vires to do so. That in fact is what I am contending, that the Constitution makes no provision for land use decisions and that, therefore, the RA is unable to delegate powers which it does not possess. One of the problems we have discovered is that our Constitution is full of holes, institutions and individuals have filled the vacuum in order to make sure that things get done. That does not mean, however, that they have Constitutional authority to do so. I'm afraid the supporters of this Bill really cannot have it both ways. You cannot argue, on the one hand that the Bill does not take any powers away from the Guild (because the Constitution doesn't say it has them) while on the other hand arguing that the RA can delegate powers because it has always made such decisions (even though the Constitution does not confer such powers to the RA)!

The CC&R provides some comfort for the DPU proposal here in that it says that "all covenants are subordinate to city laws and zoning guidelines". However, I would contend that land use falls squarely within the ambit of 'zoning guidelines'. Where does the Constitution say that the RA is empowered to issue such guidelines?

I think Ashcroft may be correct in surmising that, following this line of reasoning, some or all of the following acts of the RA may be ultra vires: fountain, flag, planning legislation, limited companies. The fact that such potential abrogrations of responsibility have not previously been picked up on does not make a further unconstitutional bill any more valid. The case for comprehensive constitutional reform to address these issues is clearly greater than we had thought.[/quote:1fgav9pn]

Why does not the power to "pass laws" give the Representative Assembly the power to pass laws about [i:1fgav9pn]anything[/i:1fgav9pn], providing that they do not contradict any express provision of the written constitution?

Ashcroft Burnham

Where reason fails, all hope is lost.
User avatar
Ashcroft Burnham
Forum Wizard
Forum Wizard
Posts: 1093
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:21 pm

Legislative and constitutional holes

Post by Ashcroft Burnham »

Incidentally, all of this discussion about unclear provisions in legislation and the written constitution gives me to think that my proposed Judiciary Commission should additionally have the function of advising those who have the power to pass legislation how best to word it to meet their policy objectives, at least until a civil service with its own skilled legislation draftspeople appears.

Ashcroft Burnham

Where reason fails, all hope is lost.
User avatar
Patroklus Murakami
Forum Wizard
Forum Wizard
Posts: 1929
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:54 pm

Re: Constitutional Amendment is needed

Post by Patroklus Murakami »

[quote="Ashcroft Burnham":3kk9cn3a]Why does not the power to "pass laws" give the Representative Assembly the power to pass laws about [i:3kk9cn3a]anything[/i:3kk9cn3a], providing that they do not contradict any express provision of the written constitution?[/quote:3kk9cn3a]

Because the power to "pass laws" must be interpreted as the power to pass laws within the ambit of the powers granted by the Constitution. Since the Constitution does not confer powers on the RA in regard of land use, the RA has no powers to delegate those responsibilities to another party.

The three institutions of government are finely balanced in our governmental system; this intention is clear from the way the Constitution is written and from the custom and practice that has built up over the last couple of years. I would also cite the debates leading up to the development of the Constitution as evidence in support of this interpretation.

Would the proposers of this bill be similarly supportive of attempts by the other two branches of government to usurp authority that has not been granted to them by the Constitution? Why should this solely be tolerated in respect of the RA?

Justice Soothsayer
Pundit
Pundit
Posts: 375
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:14 pm

Re: Constitutional Amendment is needed

Post by Justice Soothsayer »

[quote="Patroklus Murakami":2sfucyy0][quote="Ashcroft Burnham":2sfucyy0]Why does not the power to "pass laws" give the Representative Assembly the power to pass laws about [i:2sfucyy0]anything[/i:2sfucyy0], providing that they do not contradict any express provision of the written constitution?[/quote:2sfucyy0]

Because the power to "pass laws" must be interpreted as the power to pass laws within the ambit of the powers granted by the Constitution[/quote:2sfucyy0]

The Constitution confers very few powers on any of the branches of government, concentrating instead on the fine balance between the institutions. Consequently, our government is not one of enumerated powers, and therefore the RA may pass any laws not in conflict with the Constitution, Universal Declaration Of Human Rights, Founding Philosophy, the SL ToS, and SL Community Standards.

User avatar
Patroklus Murakami
Forum Wizard
Forum Wizard
Posts: 1929
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:54 pm

Re: Constitutional Amendment is needed

Post by Patroklus Murakami »

[quote="Justice Soothsayer":ygj1uycu]The Constitution confers very few powers on any of the branches of government, concentrating instead on the fine balance between the institutions. Consequently, our government is not one of enumerated powers, and therefore the RA may pass any laws not in conflict with the Constitution, Universal Declaration Of Human Rights, Founding Philosophy, the SL ToS, and SL Community Standards.[/quote:ygj1uycu]

It is true that the Constitution could be clearer on the powers of each branch of government. It does not follow, however, that our government is thus not one of enumerated powers. If it were, the Constitution would need to be clear that a particular body (in this case the RA, it could be any other) had general powers not limited to the powers specified in the Constitution but limited by the other powers of the other branches of government. The Constitution makes no such prescription so, on what basis is this conclusion drawn?

Alternatively, we could rely on a ruling from the SC along the lines of McCulloch v. Maryland (quoted in your earlier Wikipedia link) that the RA may [b:ygj1uycu][i:ygj1uycu]only[/i:ygj1uycu][/b:ygj1uycu] proceed on the basis of the enumerated powers in the Constitution.

Or we could just discuss what form a constitutional amendment we could all agree on could take :)

I am very puzzled by this debate though. Why are the proponents of this bill so keen to force through a major change to our government on the back of a bill as opposed to a constitutional amendment? Are we arguing for the sake of constitutional debate or is there some positive reason why people want to pass a mere bill to enable an executive branch of government and disable the Guild? I really don't understand why you haven't yet conceded that a constitutional amendment is necessary for such a major change.

User avatar
Ashcroft Burnham
Forum Wizard
Forum Wizard
Posts: 1093
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:21 pm

Re: Constitutional Amendment is needed

Post by Ashcroft Burnham »

[quote="Patroklus Murakami":1v64pftr]Because the power to "pass laws" must be interpreted as the power to pass laws within the ambit of the powers granted by the Constitution. Since the Constitution does not confer powers on the RA in regard of land use, the RA has no powers to delegate those responsibilities to another party.[/quote:1v64pftr]

Why do you think that the constitution as drafted creates any limitation on the laws that the Representative Assembly may pass other than that it may not pass laws that conflict with any express provision in the constitution?

There is no express provision in the constitution that I can see that provides for such a limitation - can you find one? What exactly are you claiming that the constitution provides that the Representative Assembly is able to pass laws about, and what in the constitution is the source for that proposition?

Last edited by Ashcroft Burnham on Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ashcroft Burnham

Where reason fails, all hope is lost.
User avatar
Ashcroft Burnham
Forum Wizard
Forum Wizard
Posts: 1093
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:21 pm

Re: Constitutional Amendment is needed

Post by Ashcroft Burnham »

[quote="Patroklus Murakami":2fg4i8kp]I am very puzzled by this debate though. Why are the proponents of this bill so keen to force through a major change to our government on the back of a bill as opposed to a constitutional amendment?[/quote:2fg4i8kp]

I would imagine because (1) they see no reason that it should be by way of constitutional amendment, for all the reasons already given, and (2) the governing faction, the D. P. U., has three out of five seats in the Representative Assembly, the opposition Citizens' Social Democratic Faction having the other two. A constitutional amendment, as opposed to an ordinary bill, requires a majority of two thirds, or, rounding up, four out of the five, rather than three out of the five. That means that, in the Representative Assembly as presently constituted, any constituional amendment would need the assent of at least one member of the opposition. It is clear from this debate that the C. S. D. F. and D. P. U. have rather different views about the nature of the change in substance, as well as whether a constitional amendment is required to bring it about, and so, if a constitutional amendment were required, the C. S. D. F. might be able to force the ruling D. P. U. to adopt some of its proposals for a more generalised, directly-elected "executive branch", which the D. P. U. might not want to do.

[quote:2fg4i8kp]Are we arguing for the sake of constitutional debate or is there some positive reason why people want to pass a mere bill to enable an executive branch of government and disable the Guild?[/quote:2fg4i8kp]

As I think as has already been discussed, nothing in the [b:2fg4i8kp]Burgermeister of Neufreistadt Act[/b:2fg4i8kp] "disables" the Guild, or removes from it any powers or functions conferred by the text of the constitution. The Guild could perfectly well co-exist with the Office of the Burgermeister, the Guild providing economic planning on the supply side, and organisation of labour, and the Burgermeister dealing with urban planning and local government. Those two functions do not overlap at all, and quite easily intermesh. It is only by historical accident and default, it seems, that the Guild has in the past done both.

Ashcroft Burnham

Where reason fails, all hope is lost.
User avatar
Patroklus Murakami
Forum Wizard
Forum Wizard
Posts: 1929
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:54 pm

Re: Constitutional Amendment is needed

Post by Patroklus Murakami »

[quote="Ashcroft Burnham":2cr71nj7]I would imagine because ... (2) the governing faction, the D. P. U., has three out of five seats in the Representative Assembly, the opposition Citizens' Social Democratic Faction having the other two. A constitutional amendment, as opposed to an ordinary bill, requires a majority of two thirds, or, rounding up, four out of the five, rather than three out of the five. That means that, in the Representative Assembly as presently constituted, any constituional amendment would need the assent of at least one member of the opposition.[/quote:2cr71nj7]

Thank you for making that clear :). So, in addition to the constitutional arguments being presented, this is a matter of expediency? The DPU wants to railroad its proposal through the RA without the need to compromise with the opposition (who won 38% of the popular vote). If so, this is not a promising start to this legislative term...

User avatar
Ashcroft Burnham
Forum Wizard
Forum Wizard
Posts: 1093
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:21 pm

Re: Constitutional Amendment is needed

Post by Ashcroft Burnham »

[quote="Patroklus Murakami":7n1an9qx]Thank you for making that clear :). So, in addition to the constitutional arguments being presented, this is a matter of expediency? The DPU wants to railroad its proposal through the RA without the need to compromise with the opposition (who won 38% of the popular vote). If so, this is not a promising start to this legislative term...[/quote:7n1an9qx]

The other way of looking at it is that the D. P. U. wants to pass an ordinary piece of legislation, using its legitimately acquired majority to do so, and those who claim that a constitutional amendment is required are trying to prevent a democratically elected government from discharging its policy.

I notice, however, that you have not answered my specific questions about your reasoning behind your claim that there are unspecified limits on the laws that the Representative Assembly can pass, over and above the requirement not to conflict with any express provision in teh written constitution.

Ashcroft Burnham

Where reason fails, all hope is lost.
Justice Soothsayer
Pundit
Pundit
Posts: 375
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:14 pm

Re: Constitutional Amendment is needed

Post by Justice Soothsayer »

[quote="Patroklus Murakami":21yt2rwa]
Thank you for making that clear :). So, in addition to the constitutional arguments being presented, this is a matter of expediency? The DPU wants to railroad its proposal through the RA without the need to compromise with the opposition (who won 38% of the popular vote). If so, this is not a promising start to this legislative term...[/quote:21yt2rwa]

Pat, scroll up through the discussion and y0u'll see that I've offered several reasons, none of which constitute political expediency, for this legislation being offered as a bill rather than a proposed constitutional amendment. Indeed, I hope it garners 5 votes in the RA! :D

The most compelling reason IMHO is that this will be an experiment in governance that could be modified by the next session of the RA without needing yet another constitutional amendment. Moreover, I believe there will be other proposed amendments this session including a proposal to require ratification of constitutional amendments by the electorate, thereby making it even more difficult for us to revise a constitutional, rather than statutory, proposed Burgermeister position if it doesn't work as we hope.

Jon suggested earlier that we may be a stone's throw away from agreement; let's not throw a lot of stones to get there. :lol:

Jon Seattle
I need a hobby
I need a hobby
Posts: 648
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 6:18 am

Post by Jon Seattle »

There are states that reserve all rights to themselves except those that are granted to their citizens, and there are states that grant all to their citizens except those reserved to themselves. I would prefer an RA that has powers that are limited to those described by a constitution and by precedence. Right now we have a constitution that does not give the powers you seek, and so you reach for them anyway. But forget the legal arguments, we will just have to agree to differ.

I find it remarkable, Ashcroft, that you are now pushing and pushing this argument instead of seeking a consensus on the issues even when a consensus was in development and discussions were ongoing. It seems to me we could easily reach an agreement that would result in a constitutional change that would be acceptable to all or almost all citizens.

What do you have against that approach?

User avatar
Aliasi Stonebender
I need a hobby
I need a hobby
Posts: 586
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 12:58 pm

Re: Constitutional Amendment is needed

Post by Aliasi Stonebender »

[quote="Patroklus Murakami":i39n912t]
Because the power to "pass laws" must be interpreted as the power to pass laws within the ambit of the powers granted by the Constitution. Since the Constitution does not confer powers on the RA in regard of land use, the RA has no powers to delegate those responsibilities to another party.
[/quote:i39n912t]

As said, this is only true in a government of enumerated powers, of which it is unclear if NFS is that. (Keeping in mind that I'd certainly be more comfortable if this was so, and I've previously suggested a total re-write of the constitution, as some nations do; the series of amendments last term was in part an attempt to fix the glaring bugs through another means.)

There's certainly a long line of precedent of the RA passing land-use laws, and a long-known awareness that our constitution was written by amateurs - since we are all amateurs at this. As such, it does not cover every possibility, especially those which did not exist when it was written!

User avatar
Ashcroft Burnham
Forum Wizard
Forum Wizard
Posts: 1093
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:21 pm

Post by Ashcroft Burnham »

[quote="Jon Seattle":2c4zs2vy]There are states that reserve all rights to themselves except those that are granted to their citizens, and there are states that grant all to their citizens except those reserved to themselves. I would prefer an RA that has powers that are limited to those described by a constitution and by precedence.[/quote:2c4zs2vy]

You seem to be confusing rights with powers: the two are quite distinct. See [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_New ... d:2c4zs2vy]here[/url:2c4zs2vy] for an explanation. It is not merely a matter you using the wrong word above, since the part about rights clearly only makes sense if you really do mean "rights". After all, it would be absurd if all citizens could be said to have government-like "powers".

[quote:2c4zs2vy]Right now we have a constitution that does not give the powers you seek, and so you reach for them anyway. But forget the legal arguments, we will just have to agree to differ.[/quote:2c4zs2vy]

As stated above quite a few times, the Representative Assembly has the power to "pass laws". Nowhere in the text of the constitution does it state that the Representative Assembly only has the power to pass laws about certain things. Indeed, there is a specific section entitled "Limits of the Representative Assembly", which deals only with corruption. It is very frustrating that the argument is going around in circles because people are just re-stating their original claim over and over (that the Representative Assembly does not have the power under the constitution to pass the [b:2c4zs2vy]Burgermeister of Neufreistadt Act[/b:2c4zs2vy]), without addressing any of my detailed arguments to the contrary that I made the first time that it was mentioned, and on all subsequent occasions.

[quote:2c4zs2vy]I find it remarkable, Ashcroft, that you are now pushing and pushing this argument instead of seeking a consensus on the issues even when a consensus was in development and discussions were ongoing. It seems to me we could easily reach an agreement that would result in a constitutional change that would be acceptable to all or almost all citizens.[/quote:2c4zs2vy]

Perhaps it is a degree of confusion over the nature of my position that leads you to this conclusion: my position is quite firmly that a constitutional amendment is not [i:2c4zs2vy]required[/i:2c4zs2vy] in order for the Representative Assembly to pass the [b:2c4zs2vy]Burgermeister of Neufreistadt Act[/b:2c4zs2vy]. You state that it is required, and I have explained carefully my reasoning to the contrary (that there is no way that the text of the constitution can be interpreted such that the Representative Assembly's powers to "pass laws" are limited to powers to "pass laws" only about certain things, and that historical practice cannot assume the same significance as something written in the text of the constitution), which nobody seems really to have attempted to have addressed. That is not a matter of policy, or a matter on which it makes any sense to seek consensus, any more than the question of how exactly a 2/3rds majority is calculated when the number of seats in the Representative Assembly are not divisible by 3, as it is just a matter of reasoning and interpretation of the constitution: it is a question about what is, not about what ought to be.

However, whether, notwithstanding it being not necessary to amend the constitution in order to enact the [b:2c4zs2vy]Burgermeister of Neufreistadt Act[/b:2c4zs2vy], it is nontheless [i:2c4zs2vy]desirable[/i:2c4zs2vy] is another matter entirely. That claim is a far more viable claim than the that constitutional amendment is required, and, unlike the first claim, is one that [i:2c4zs2vy]is[/i:2c4zs2vy] a matter of policy, and one on which it does make sense to seek consensus. You might say, for example, that, since Neufreistadt is a state with a written constitution, it makes sense to have those matters that deal with the way in which the state of Neufreistadt is constituted (including the appointment of a Burgermeister) reduced to the text of the written constitution so that all such matters can be found in the same place, or so that matters as important as the existence of local executives are not able to be upturned by future governments without the procedural safeguards attendant upon matters of the written constitution. Against that, it could be said that the written constitution should be a skeletal outline document that deals only with the powers of some of the most important institutions of government, and that it would be cumbersome and unweidly to have all the details of institutions of delegated power in that one document, which requires special procedures to change.

That is the level at which the debate ought to be conducted, for all the reasons that I have given in my previous posts. I shall not express a view on that second question of policy: that is a matter for debate in the Representative Assembly. My interest is in the legal questions surrounding the interpretation of the constitution. The purpose of my original proposal was to suggest a possible way of doing things for discussion. I still stand by the claim that it is possible. Whether it is desirable is a matter for further debate.

Ashcroft Burnham

Where reason fails, all hope is lost.
User avatar
Gwyneth Llewelyn
Forum Wizard
Forum Wizard
Posts: 1189
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 8:00 am
Contact:

Post by Gwyneth Llewelyn »

*sighs*

The problem, Ashcroft, is that, as you might have noticed so far, is that we're bogged down by history and use it as precedent. In our case, "history" means about 7200 posts (or thereabouts) without an easy way to reference them or search them easily — and 7200 posts that will disappear soon, as LL is going to shut the forums down shortly (although that's another story).

Broadly speaking, the Constitution vaguely defines that the "Founding Philosophy" is part of the Constitution itself — but it doesn't explicitly refers what [i:30v605c1]all[/i:30v605c1] the Founding Philosophy [i:30v605c1]is[/i:30v605c1]. It thus places in the hands of the SC to interpret these aspects without a "strict adherence to the founding documents" (III., 8) This naturally makes things way complex, but it was intended to mean that a certain flexibility in interpreting the [i:30v605c1]intent[/i:30v605c1] of certain aspects of the legislation and constitution were not only allowed, but encouraged.

You can quickly see where all this is leading...

It also means that every time someone questions a simple thing that was never codified in law, the poor SC members have to spend several hours painfully putting search queries into the SL forums search engine, hoping against hope to get those old documents back. Also, some of the things on the "founding philosophy" were lost forever; copies of those have been made, but the legitimate use of those copies are being questioned. Which makes everything so more fun.

Basically, the issue about the "powers" of the RA and the Guild, and how they relate to each other, were never defined [i:30v605c1]clearly[/i:30v605c1]. Also, the Constitution was written at a time where the land where the City was built belonged to Governor Linden, and we had only the option to [i:30v605c1]use[/i:30v605c1] it, not define [i:30v605c1]how[/i:30v605c1] it should be used. This naturally raised tons of questions and issues, and it also meant that the laws were never changed to reflect the new situation, except for some marginal laws to regulate the ownership of parcels.

One think that was clear, though, is that the RA proposes budgets to be approved, but that the Guild would hold the Treasury (and a way to veto the budget). This separation of powers was necessary — the ones that have the money can't do anything with it without laws; the ones that make the laws don't have the money.

As time went by, a new balance was found — all unwritten, all only posted here and there at the forums. The RA does the overall strategic planning; the Guild implements it in terms of providing infrastructure and services. In other terms: the RA approves (and roughly oversees) the way the urban planning should be implemented; the Guild builds it.

It's also the Guild that verifies new citizens, writes out the deeds, assigns the plots, and has all Land Managing duties. The RA oversees the whole issue. Again, there are no specific laws on that. What was assumed is that the Guild, since it need access to the buildings (in technical, SL terms), does the job of maintaining the city. Again, this was never codified.

Now since this is not codified in law, it's only an interpretation, which can change.

However, it is a [i:30v605c1]crucial[/i:30v605c1] interpretation. Nothing prevents, under the current model, that the RA simply removes all the powers from the Guild — lawfully ones, or ones inherited by historical reasons — and places them in the hand of a Dictator or Tyrant to speed up the process :) They [i:30v605c1]could[/i:30v605c1] do it, and nothing would strictly forbid it, on pure philosophical terms — "what isn't written, does not exist".

Sadly, the Dean of the SC also has a conscience and a responsability. I personally view the inability of the RA to pass a large amount of laws to address [i:30v605c1]all[/i:30v605c1] the issues one of the weakest points in NFS. Too much is left unsaid and unaddressed, and "lost" in comments on forum posts, never to be codified. However, that is one limitation that the RA has to address "somehow" (having an executive, for instance, would certainly improve matters very much, by separating mere administrative tasks from the more important discussion on overall frameworks).

Despite that limitation, it doesn't mean that things are not "worthless" just because they were never put into law; it just means that they are proto-laws, waiting to be codified, and put into hold until someone has time to go over them. Personally, I think it's a good time to do it [i:30v605c1]now[/i:30v605c1].

Sooo if from a literal, strict interpretation of the tiny Constitution, the proposed model for the new executive is not going to conflict with anything under the Constitution, in practice it overlaps several issues that are being handled by the Guild.

Now, the Guild, as you know, does not have any procedures, just a few guidelines and ideas (like the ones for the Treasury). It doesn't publish a journal; it is not overseen by any external body. They are not required to do so, either; and it's left unsaid if the Guild can even create those procedures, or if the RA has any authority inside the Guild at all.

Under this legal vacuum, the Guild had to work within its own constitutional limitations; it was generally a good practice to allow them some leeway in the way they dealt with "providing infrastructure and goods". The RA plans; the Guild provides.

Since the Guild was mostly created to have the artisans have a strong voice in how the city should look like, it was generally felt best to allow them this leeway.

The new executive (under all four proposals) will thus change the relationship with the Guild irrevocably. It will mean that the Guild will have a much more restricted role. The executive apparently will have the power of defining and overseeing land use, expend the money directly under the RA's supervision, assume the role of the Chamber of Commerce (currently under the Guild), and enforce the guidelines defined by the rA.

All these are currently done by the Guild, even if codified explicitly.

It is my understanding that — while fully supporting this concept of an exective! — it should be made clear that the Guild's powers are being defined, once and for all, and that these should be made much less important. Changing the relative weight of the three branches is indeed a constitutional issue. You might have noticed that the proposed "Burgermeister Acts" only establish a clear relationship between RA and the Executive. This is naturally so, since effectively the RA is delegating part of their powers into the Executive. But it is also delegating [i:30v605c1]new[/i:30v605c1] powers (or rather: old, uncodified powers) into the Executive, [i:30v605c1]without[/i:30v605c1] defining the relationship with the Guild.

So, in my understanding, more has to be done. First, a definition of the Guild's powers needs to be addressed — and I fear that you can't do that without touching the Constitution somehow. Secondly, lots of existing institutions have to be dissolved — no more Chamber of Commerce, for instance, and even the Treasury can be questioned ("to expend monies held by the Office of the Burgermeister of Neufreistadt for the administration and management of public facilities").

Why didn't the Guild need constitutional changes to "absorb" those institutions? Well, mostly, because the issue of dealing with financials was delegated to the Guild, by a loose interpretation of the founding documents and the financial veto on the budget, which was interpreted as meaning that the intent of the founders was to give the Guild the financial powers, as well as dealing with all service providers in NFS (thus, the Chamber of Commerce, as an association of merchants, was created under the Guild).

By removing effectively all those institutions and place them under the Executive, I feel that a bill is not enough. The whole concept of checks and balances is put into question. The RA is effectively placing all financial burdens under its own self. Again, I don't disagree with that — I only disagree that "only a bill" should be enough.

And we have two precedents to put a stop to this. On two occasions (once even under my own term as LRA :) — and one on the previous term), the RA tried to pass a law that created a "Financial Committee" to assume the responsibility of "advising" the Guild in financial matters. The reason for the veto was simple: the RA [i:30v605c1]cannot[/i:30v605c1] interfere in financial matters. Ever. It can only vote on the budget. The precedent was established — twice — that a single bill is not enough to remove any financial powers of the Guild and place them on any other institution.

Being true to the past precendence established, the SC will have no option but to remain true to its past rulings, and demand a constitutional change to allow the RA to change the balance of powers between itself and the Guild.

To avoid this — and since some people seem to be so reluctant to change the constitution — the Guild could, in theory, write a "joint statement" that delegates all financial powers to this new executive, by its own free will. Since the Guild's "statements" are not laws, the SC cannot pronounce on those. But as you see it would make things messier...

"I'm not building a game. I'm building a new country."
  -- Philip "Linden" Rosedale, interview to Wired, 2004-05-08

PGP Fingerprint: CE8A 6006 B611 850F 1275 72BA D93E AA3D C4B3 E1CB

Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion”