Transcript of CDS RA Debates, July 11, 2009

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Rose Springvale
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Transcript of CDS RA Debates, July 11, 2009

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9:20] Delia Lake: we have representatives of our 3 CDS factions today
[9:20] Delia's translator: tenemos representantes de nuestras 3 CDS facciones hoy
[9:20] Delia Lake: Gwyn representing the CSDF, Pip representing the DPU
[9:20] Delia's translator: Gwyn en representación de la CSDF, Pip en representación de la DPU
[9:21] Delia Lake: Soro representing the SP
[9:21] Delia's translator: Soro en representación de la SP
[9:22] Delia Lake: may we start today with opening statements from each rep, in alphabeti
[9:22] Delia Lake: in alphabetical order by faction. CSDF, DPU then SP please
[9:23] Delia Lake: and in consideration of our audience please make your statements as clear and concise as possible
[9:24] Delia Lake: i
[9:24] Delia Lake: a couple of minutes each starting with Gwyn
[9:25] Delia Lake: and please pass me your questions on notecards
[9:25] Delia Lake: yes, Gwyn
[[9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi all :) I'm glad to see you all here today, and I hope that we get this transcripted on the forums so that more citizens can read it. I'm not copying from a notecard, so this time I'll be shorter than usual hehe
[9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: CSDF has as its motto for the forthcoming elections "Back to Democracy"
[9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This might seem... ominous :)
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since we've been a representative democracy since October 2004 :)
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nevertheless, we have two challenges in front of us
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One is the more obvious one,
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in a few days, we'll get twice the landmass :)
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And over twice the population
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As we slowly get used to our fellow Al Andaluzian neighbours (now soon to be citizens like all of us),
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we'll get in touch with different ways of doing things, organising things in Second Life
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But this is just the first challenge, we will have more:
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: more communities will (probably) in the next term wish to join
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: each on their own terms, of course,
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: some will be just "friendly neighbours", others might merge like AA is doing now.
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: For us, this is an enormous responsibility,
[9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: since we cannot fail the expectations they have,
[9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: neither can we fail the expectations of the current citizens.
[9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the second challenge is slightly less obvious...
[9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In the past few months, the many contacts between our fellow CDS citizens and other groups/communities in SL,
[9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: have shown how others think and organise themselves.
[9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In as sense, they have shown thar there are other organisation methods than, well, a representative democracy.
[9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As many of you might know,
[9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: armies and companies are NOT representative democracies,
[9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but they're efficient :)
[9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They work well :)
[9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But
[9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They don't allow the members to participate freely
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They have... no saying in how things are run.
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In SL, *most* of the organisations in SL, no matter how efficient and even profitable,
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: are like "armies" and "companies"
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We're not.
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Preserving that spirit,
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: where the common citizen, no matter what their involvement in the CDS,
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: has a way to fully participate at all levels in the CDS,
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: will be our major focus for the forthcoming term
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And hopefully, by being in touch with so many new citizens,
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we will learn to integrate their own culture into our own,
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: while also teaching them why our way worked so well for almost five years.
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you for now :)[9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As many of you might know,
[9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: armies and companies are NOT representative democracies,
[9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but they're efficient :)
[9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They work well :)
[9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But
[9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They don't allow the members to participate freely
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They have... no saying in how things are run.
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In SL, *most* of the organisations in SL, no matter how efficient and even profitable,
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: are like "armies" and "companies"
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We're not.
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Preserving that spirit,
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: where the common citizen, no matter what their involvement in the CDS,
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: has a way to fully participate at all levels in the CDS,
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: will be our major focus for the forthcoming term
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And hopefully, by being in touch with so many new citizens,
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we will learn to integrate their own culture into our own,
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: while also teaching them why our way worked so well for almost five years.
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you for now :)
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn notices this was more tha 2 minutes... oops
[9:31] Pip Torok: If delia's off-line ill start
[9:32] Patroklus Murakami applauds
[9:32] Pip Torok: Good morning, fellow CDS citizens and avatars all.
I represent the DPU -- the _Democratic_ _Pragmatist_ _Union_
[9:32] Pip Torok: and here are the FIVE principles we believe in:
[9:33] Pip Torok: and here are the FIVE principles we believe in:
[9:33] Pip Torok: ONE:
We believe in Freedom of speech and expression
This includes the judicial use of Referenda, the polling
and canvassing of the population, either inworld or through
the CDS Forum's polling-feature.
[9:33] Pip Torok: ALL citizens' views should be heard, considered and respected.
Where a citizen's first language is not English, we should commission help,
for example in reading government documents.
[9:34] Pip Torok: TWO:
We believe in the persistence of a CDS about which we can be proud:
Its evolving democracy, the results of this democracy in its vibrant community,
and, last but not least, its high standards of building and development
-- i.e. its beauty.
[9:34] Pip Torok: THREE:
We believe in the government's central role in providing civic improvements and services.
Other organisations may have a role but the government should coordinate it and provide a watching eye.
[9:35] Pip Torok: FOUR:
We believe in the availability and strong growth of economic opportunity
[9:35] Pip Torok: and FIVE ... the bottom-line ...
we believe that finances should be managed with prudence
[9:36] Pip Torok: Thank you for your attention
[9:36] Sonja Strom claps
[9:36] Alexia Carnell applauds
[9:36] Patroklus Murakami applauds
[9:36] Delia Lake: ty Gwyn and Pip. Soro next please
[9:36] Soro Dagostino: Thank you
[9:37] Soro Dagostino: first, its been my pleasure to serve you this past few months.
[9:37] Soro Dagostino: A real learning experience.
[9:37] Soro Dagostino: Simplicty Party believes:
[9:37] Soro Dagostino: 1. Spread the option and understanding of self governance in SL
[9:38] Soro Dagostino: 2. Empower individuals to participate in sim ownership and development with minimal financial risk.
[9:38] Soro Dagostino: 3. Educate citizens and others in SL skills to continue to provide high quality, beautiful spaces
[9:39] Soro Dagostino: 4. Provide communication tools to facillitate conversation about issues in rl and virtual worlds, including politics and government, art and culture, and personal relationships.
[9:39] Soro Dagostino: 5. Maintain prudent financial reserves, but make an effort to invest back in the project for which fees were collected
[9:39] Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn claps :)
[9:40] Delia Lake: thank you all
[9:40] Sonja Strom claps
[9:40] Alexia Carnell caps
[9:40] Lilith Ivory claps
[9:40] Alexia Carnell: lol sorry *claps
[9:40] Robert Galland: applauds for all
[9:41] Patroklus Murakami applauds
[9:41] Rose Springvale: okay, delia is going through a tunnel
[9:41] Delia Lake: we will be going through a tunnel under the river. i could be off for 2 min then. my first question to the reps is what is the vision of their respective factions of what the CDS is and can become
[9:41] Rose Springvale: watches her typing for a ec
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What will the order be this time?
[9:42] Delia Lake: this time please Pip, then Soro, then Gwyn
[9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and thanks
[9:43] Pip Torok: ok ... my vision is of communitiies within the CDS that feel proud of being themselves AND of being CDS citizens ... each of whom feels he/she has a voice and one that is heard
[9:44] Pip Torok: (d0ne)
[9:44] Soro Dagostino: Hmmm, my turn?
[9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[9:44] Soro Dagostino: 1. Continue to expand CDS territory pursuant to the creative desires of Citizens.
a. complete the continental connections with the Al Andalus sims. ( supports goals 1,2,3,4)
b. add NFS 2 early in the next term.
[9:45] Soro Dagostino: 2. Bring more citizens into participatory government and spread responsibilities among citizens: (supports goal 1,2,3,4,5)
a.) Continue to devolve programming to local sims and cultural groups
b.) Expand civil service positions
[9:45] Soro Dagostino: There are more, but lets wait for the questions.
[9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You might have noticed that we're called the "Confederation of Democratic Simulators". We used just to be "Neufreistadt" at some point. There was a strong will to make not only the CDS an example on how a vibrant community can be organised in a democratic way, but that in the future, we would be able to 'export' this model to other communities as well. We should do so, since we have an enormous track record on many successes: how to plan and organise sims; how to let citizens participate in decisions; how to support "ad hoc" groups that just simply wish to make this a more dynamic place, and empower them to do so; how to be financially responsible.
[9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We've learned that all, sometimes with ups and downs; I think it's time we tell the world how well we fared. Let's make the CDS a role model for others, and be proud of what we've achieved so far!
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the "CDS of the future" is probably just "More democracy; more citizen empowerment; more communities sharing our dreams and goals, together"
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And...
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... more fun too :)
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (done!)
[9:48] Rose Springvale: Thank you all. I think we've lost delia for a few minutes. Here is the next question
[9:48] Rose Springvale: oops. nm :)
[9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ã‹¡
[9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb from the tunnel, Delia :)
[9:49] Delia Lake: thank you all
[9:50] Delia Lake: we have some questions posed by our fellow citizens
[9:51] Rose Springvale: (folks, if you have questions, just put them on a notecard and pass to Delia)
[9:52] Delia Lake: firstly, givien your vision of the CDS, how do you believe the past session of the RA either furthered or hindered that vision, and what contributions did your faction's reps make to bringing about that vision?
[9:52] Delia Lake: first Pip, then Gwyn, then Soro
[9:52] Jamie Palisades leans forward, all ears, smiling
[9:53] Pip Torok: right first .. a general one ... all factions lowered the intensity of the debate ... making it more productive
[9:54] Pip Torok: second ... we in the DPU tried our best to cooperate with other facvtions for the common good
[9:54] Pip Torok: there have been differences ... the DPU have often been middleman or tried to be in resolving them
[9:55] Pip Torok: (done)
[9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The RA, as an assembly of democratically elected representatives, by doing its work, is just representing the citizen's will — merely by being allowing this to happen, by definition, the RA is the cornerstone of the CDS's vision.
[9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nevertheless, I have to second Pip's words. Compared to previous sessions, we are showing more debate, more cooperation, less "power struggles", more willingness to reach a compromise. Almost everything tends to have passed unanimously, with few exceptions, and even on those exceptions, there was not *fundamental disagreement*
[9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: More like... roughening edges :)
[9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I believe this shows that we're slowly entering a "maturity stage",
[9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which ought to happen to all young democracies
[9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Where the push to do something for the common good is more important than, well, individuals that happen to have fancy titles
[9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In that regard, I think that the last term was a reasonably good example on how our democratic machine is getting *greased* and flows much better.
[9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks, taht's all.
[9:58] Soro Dagostino: I believe the Simplicity Party has been in the forefront in bringing order and simplicity to the activities of RA.
[9:58] Soro Dagostino: We accomplished the addition of AA.
[9:58] Soro Dagostino: And are on the way with NFS.
[9:58] Soro Dagostino: thank you
[9:59] Delia Lake: thank you
[10:00] Delia Lake: and i and most of our fellow citizens i believe would agree that the levelof civility was much higher and much improved this last term. thank you to the factions for being mindful of that
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and agrees with Delia!
[10:01] Delia Lake: so we have added a number fo new sims, the AA complex plus the Monastery
[10:01] Delia Lake: the CDS will be a bit of a different place starting next month
[10:02] Delia Lake: we have had a particular form of representative democracy where we vote for factions and they choose the individual representatives
[10:03] Delia Lake: AA has had operated for 2 yrs with a consensus democracy. and there has been discussion in world and in forums about other forms
[10:04] Delia Lake: if we were to change the way we operate regarding representation, what would your faction favor? or would you prefer the form that we have currently?
[10:05] Delia Lake: Soro, then Gwyn then Pip please
[10:05] Soro Dagostino: Hold community discussions in world to determine attitudes about government and what attracts people to CDS so that individual interests can be better addressed.
[10:06] Soro Dagostino: A self governance symposium would be good.
[10:06] Soro Dagostino: done.
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is a complex question. The CSDF, by itself, doesn't really oppose other forms of democracy, so long as nobody is excluded from participating. In fact, as you might know, the New Guild, which is pretty much the CSDF's mind child, is an adhocracy: decisions are made by a majority of the people who appear, and not by a complex system of elections
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the CSDF is not really "against" other models and definitely willing to discuss them.
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, we need to carefully analyse what a "consensus democracy" really means.
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: For some groups, it means that only a few people — the ones that are more actively participating for some reason — get to make the decisions.
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We also know, that on a group that actually works well together,
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the actual number of people willing to bother to pop up to discuss things is usually small
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So "consensus democracy" is seldom a synonym of "direct democracy" (which the CSDF also doesn't endorse)
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We believe that every form of democracy is perfectly valid,
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: as long as one fundamental principle is kept:
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *all* citizens have the right to have a saying on how the CDS is run
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And they have to express that right — explicitly
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not by saying "oh, it's fine, whatever the group decides is great for me, I don't bother"
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Currently, to achieve that goal, we give everybody a vote :)
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If there are better models — we haven't found them in RL — we can surely discuss them.
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks.
[10:10] Pip Torok: the DPU wd 1st of all go to the communitites and watch/listen to how their for of democracy is carried on ...
[10:12] Pip Torok: hopefully it cd be integrated into our reps democracy as we have it ... but if not we'd favout looking into a parallel local-bound approach if it wd fit ... what we wd NOT do is to OBLIGE everyone to say they have a say of not have a say
[10:12] Pip Torok: )done)
[10:13] Delia Lake: i have received some questions about more specific issues of concern to our citizens also
[10:15] Delia Lake: some people have asked about support for merchants in the CDS. we have talked off and on about a Chamber of Commerce and advertizing our businesses both within sl and also outside in rl media
[10:16] Delia Lake: what is your faction's position and interest in CDS commerce?
[10:16] Delia Lake: first Gwyn then Soro then Pip
10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As you know, I'm not a merchant in SL (well, the few things I have for sale here don't really count)
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, I cannot pretend to be here in "isolation" from my own personal knowledge outside the sphere of the CDS
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: iRL I do indeed give lectures on how businesses can come to SL *and be profitable*
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That kind of knowledge certainly can be applied to the CDS as well
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It requires two things...
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: - some financial commitment to a budget
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's the easy bit. Our finances are relatively solid.
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: - people commiting time to organise PR, marketing, promotion
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's slightly harder. We have a large number of people mostly volunteering their time to do a LOT of events
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (which also get promoted)
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would like also to be honest and direct. Doing business in the CDS is *hard*. Why? there is a lot of competition, who are *exclusively* set up to do business
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would definitely like to propose to bring all those knowledgeable people,
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: many of which run successful businesses outside the CDS,
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and be open and frank with them — tell them how much we can spend
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hear their advice on how we can make the CDS a good shopping area.
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This requires a very open mind. It will be a challenge.
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thank you.
[10:21] Delia Lake: ty Gwyn
[10:22] Delia Lake: Soro?
[10:22] Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[10:22] Soro Dagostino: Support private enterprise in creating and supporting: (supports 1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
a) local business and arts organizations by holding appropriate events to attract consumers of both goods, services and information to the sims recognising that CDS is a quality of life destination, not a mall.
[10:22] Soro Dagostino: commercial activities such as treasure hunts and games, (metanomics, 1rst question)
2. live music, djs, and other entertainment that reinforces brand (Tiroler Eck Show Band and world music in NFS, classical music in roman sims, spanish/arab in AA sims.) Provide opportunities for CDS musicians and artists
3. literary arts and culture. Work with the public and and private groups to develop events programming (LIbrary, Old Bowl, Monastery, Theater of the Clouds, etc)
[10:23] Soro Dagostino: b) explore development of inworld communication systems, such as weekly newspaper and radio station, and promote utilization of web portal and calendar
c) private rentals of land
[10:24] Soro Dagostino: We belive this philosophy will be good for CDS.
[10:24] Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[10:24] Pip Torok: We, the DPU, are strongly for the interests of the merchants, and we wd make sure we had an accurate assessment of what their needs
actually are (ie directly from them) ... and if that includes advertising .. well the DPU wd be in favour .. after all "there is no such

thing as bad publicity" (showbiz proverb)
[10:24] Pip Torok: (thank you)
[10:25] Delia Lake: ty all
[10:26] Delia Lake: one last question that some citizens raised. Gwyn said that our finances are solid, and i'd add for which all CDS citizens are grateful and thank our administrators
[10:27] Delia Lake: given our solid and even growing financials, what new ventures would your faction propose? how might our money be working for us the CDS community?
[10:28] Delia Lake: Pip, then Soro, then Gwyn please
[10:29] Pip Torok: Well i wd first of all go to the community as a whole and ASK .... after all the RA is for them not they for us ... then wed look and see if it can PRUDENTLY be done ... after all an economy goes from "solid" to "rocky" very quickly
[10:29] Pip Torok: (done)
[10:31] Soro Dagostino: I think I have stated a workable program -- that maintains prudent financial reserves and provides funds to invest back into infrastructure.
[10:31] Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[10:31] Patroklus Murakami: bye all :) ty to the candidates and to delia for a great debate
[10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (bye Pat!)
[10:32] Delia Lake: bye Pat
[10:32] Pip Torok: bye pat
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh... I guess it's my turn
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry!!
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: First we have to evaluate the exact amount that we can spend on the next term. As you might now, we have legislation that tells the Treasurer exactly how much she has to keep safely away as advance payments for the upcoming tier. This will require recalculation as we suddenly grew to twice the size!
Nevertheless, we're still sound — not fantastically rich, of course, but in the green.
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Giving that into account, the priorities would probably be discussed at the RA first, but anything among the following items would get some strong support from us:
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) Promoting the CDS, mostly to the "outside" (thanks to our PIO we are *very* good at internal promotion these days). This comes from a long plan to make the "CDS" a 'brand' that means quality, initiative, participation, but also democratic freedom.
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) Considering the next expansion phase, which, mind you, can come from a mix of new sims but also merging with other communities. All have different costs. We now have a good,solid experience in figuring out those costs under different models, and I think we should continue to use the "mix" as a good example of landmass expansion
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3) Sponsoring citizens' initiatives, some of which are spontaneous. We have lot of them that are not exactly "government", but the role of Government should be to spread wealth around :) We should be even better at doing that (in the sense of making more public funds available to more groups to do amazing things in the CDS)
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you, the order could be the inverse one — to be discussed of course ;)
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's it, thanks :)
[10:36] Delia Lake: ty all. Soro mentioned infrastructure. sim development is part of our infrastructure. and Gwyn just mentioned expansion. some citizens have asked about future sim expansions, about further alpine sims, about water voids or homesteads and other theme compatible builds. what is the position of your faction on CDS expansion and development?
[10:37] Delia Lake: Pip, Gwyn then Soro
[10:37] Delia Lake: and this will be our last question today
[10:38] Delia Lake: after which each will be asked for brief closing remarks
[10:38] Pip Torok: well our platform looks specifically at alpine sims ... for very pragmatic reasons ... they are popular and several citizens wish to live there ... thats not to say we arent involved in every topology present or future in CDS ... in short we have an open mind
[10:39] Pip Torok: (thank you)
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The CSDF is a very boring party :) Since the very beginning we have always been for expansion, both in population and landmass. Now that we're actually actively bringing in whole communities to join us, we couldn't be more happier!
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As to *how exactly* we should expand, we were always careful in defining the strategies for expansion.
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: First, there has to be the *will to expand*. This should not be just a decision of a "selected few" but something that is genuinely felt by a majority of the citizens.
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then, there are technical considerations. This mostly means that the choice of "more alpine" or "more Roman" will have to take into account the following:
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: - given the current market for parcels in SL overall,
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: what does sell better?
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: - given what *current* citizens wish to buy, what should be done next?
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And finally, there are aesthetics to consider
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: A Martian sim next to Locus Amoenus makes no sense :)
[10:40] Jamie Palisades chuckles.
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: For that, we have specialists at the new Guild (where everybody can attend, participate and make decisions) to tell us what "looks best" and figure out a plan
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks, that's it.
[10:41] zaphod Enoch: but the question is to be allowed why not realize jthat within the sim and the need of others
[10:42] Soro Dagostino: Simplicity party believes we have led in this area and we have proposed workable plans.
[10:44] Soro Dagostino: That have moved forward and been adopted.
[10:44] Soro Dagostino: thank you.
[10:44] zaphod Enoch: connecting to others does always mean compromises from both sides and never been the way it was
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn wonders if the moderator has received zaphod's questions since they are very, very pertinent :)
[10:46] zaphod Enoch: nope never wrote the moderator
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's Delia's call hehe
[10:46] Rose Springvale: maybe we can do that discussion informally, i think we are out of time for formal
[10:46] Jamie Palisades: I think she called last question, unfortunately, and we are over time, ... and if Delia is again having connectivity issues, ... usually we get short wind-up statements from each.
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... but we can certainly do as Rose suggests, yes
[10:47] Kedwyn Parmelee is very curious about the martian sim proposal :P
[10:47] Delia Lake: ty. now for brief closing remarks from each representative. Soro, Gwyn then Pip please. These are large topics we have been discussing today and an hour + is not enough time to do them justice. I strongly recommend that our citizenry continue these discussions on our forum
[10:47] zaphod Enoch: i jus ask questions to the ones who should answer and not through a third party
[10:47] Soro Dagostino: Ok?
[10:48] Soro Dagostino: Simplicy Party has been in the forefront of a very productive term. We are willing and able to continue that effort with your vote.
[10:48] Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: First, I would like to thank everybody who organised the debate (and everything related to the election). Thanks Jamie. Thanks Jon. Thanks Delia. Thanks Rose. Thanks to all I've forgotten to thank but deserve the thanks for keeping the CDS alive, develop a vibrant community which has rather strong bonds, providing opportunities for debating what we should do, and participate democratically in all decisions.
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: From my personal point of view, I should tell you how happy I am :)
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: When the CDS started in October 2004, we had a lot of doubts on how this would work out. Would we be swallowed in drama? Would some group simply "take over" democracy, change it to their own tastes, and basically be perpetually in power, if not in name, at least in spirit? Would everybody just get tired of waiting so long for democracy to establish itself as a valid self-organising method for planning communities in SL, and drop from the CDS?
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Things worked out surprisingly well, even if they took much more time than elsewhere. We have indeed established a model that *works*, even if for most SL citizens it's almost impossible to understand how we in the CDS plan things ahead for a *year* or sometimes more. In the accelerated environment of SL, where everything happens *quickly*, we're an exception.
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, one thing remained constant in the CDS:
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Change.
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We've reinvented ourselves a lot of times.
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Every year, it seems, we have a far bigger challenge in front of us that will require change.
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: To levels we hadn't forseen before.
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we have a great challenge in front of us right now — once more
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the good news is that most of us will embrace that change gladly :)
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thank you.
[10:51] Pip Torok: We of the DPU believe politics is first and foremost an exercise in collective problem solving. The DPU is committed to seeking compromise and finding common ground to solve CDS problems.
[10:51] Pip Torok: So we hope you will all support our efforts to achieve just this. With your help, we will ... Thank you
[10:51] Delia Lake: I believe that Rose has logged this chat and will post on the forum so that the discussion can continue with the flow. if they would be so kind might these reps/factions answer zaphod's questions on the forum.
[10:51] zaphod Enoch: well as it seems i am becoming a member of your community or being it allready
[10:52] Pip Torok: you are already, zaphod ...
[10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Definitely, zaphod!
[10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And of course, Delia
[10:52] zaphod Enoch: but i do have my own flavours
[10:52] Jamie Palisades: :) time for announcements?
[10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They're an excellent starting point for debate :)
[10:52] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:52] Pip Torok: (as do we all!)
[10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes Mr Chancellor SIR
[10:53] Jamie Palisades: Two quick CDS government announcements, if I may.
First, a big thanks to Delia, a member of our Scientific Council, for acting as our neutral moderator today -- even across wireless connections, autobahn issues and many tech challenges! Yay Del ... and as she mentioned, the faction forums for more electioneering chat are here:
[10:53] zaphod Enoch: i say may words when i have to say them
[10:53] Jamie Palisades: :) one of the virtues of a democracy, Zaphod
[10:53] Rose Springvale: applause!!
[10:53] Jamie Palisades: yay del! :D
[10:53] Sonja Strom: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[10:53] Jamie Palisades: seriously
[10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: THANKS DELIA :))))
[10:53] Delia Lake: on behalf of the citizens of the CDS, I thank you all for coming here today. thank you for keeping our democracy alive. and thank you to Soro, Pip and Gwyn for being our faction reps and answering our questions. and thank you to Jamie and
[10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
[10:53] Jamie Palisades: she did it from a moving car, folks!
[10:53] zaphod Enoch: no matter what the situation is
[10:53] Delia Lake: Rose for organizing
[10:53] Sonja Strom claps!
[10:53] Robert Galland: /Applause
[10:53] Sonja Strom: Thanks everybody!
[10:54] Jamie Palisades: that's dedication
[10:54] Jamie Palisades: :D second
[10:54] Jamie Palisades: because Claude, the dean of the SC which runs elections, is on vacation: let me mention that I confirme with our Jon Seattle that the CDS ballot boxes will be up and running by noon today in our usual sim locations, Same software/web ballot as usual; Jon has graciously donated his time as our volunteer programmer for those ballots for several years, and yes, ballot secrecy is maintained. If a citizen has *technical* problems with completing a ballot, please contact Jon Seattle by IM.
Thanks, and best of luck to all.

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