Thanks to everyone who attended this commission meeting. It was one of the best discussions i've participated in in CDS! As you'll see at the end of the transcript, the group would like more input and time to consider the issues, and plans to meet again next wee, time tbd.
[13:06] Rose Springvale: wow, great turnout.. thanks everyone!
[13:06] DeliaLake Beaumont: hello everyone 
[13:06] Solomon Mosely: of course rose
[13:06] Sonja Strom: hi Delia
[13:06] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Good Evening
[13:06] Sudane Erato: hi
[13:06] Solomon Mosely: i always come to your meetings
[13:06] Rose Springvale: oh, different outfit there Delia!
[13:06] Solomon Mosely: our meetings....
[13:06] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:06] Soro Dagostino: Hello all
[13:06] Rose Springvale: hey Wasp
[13:06] Rose Springvale: hi Soro!
[13:07] Sonja Strom: Hi Soro
[13:07] Wasp Thor: Hi precious
[13:07] DeliaLake Beaumont: a different Delia ). i'm double-timing....building praries at the same time today
[13:07] Wasp Thor: Hello everyone
[13:07] Rose Springvale: wow, lots of people here... we may need to move!
[13:07] Rose Springvale: fwiw, i'm very laggy so if i crash... i'll be bak
[13:07] Rose Springvale: Hi Lauran!
[13:07] Lauran Quan: hello
[13:08] Lauran Quan: cant see too much around
[13:08] Rose Springvale: Stui is technically the chair here... give it a sec Lauran.. we'll rez
[13:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Welcome everyone
[13:08] Rose Springvale: Stu, are you taking it from here?
[13:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am a very pretty chair I think you will agree
[13:09] Sudane Erato: very!
[13:09] Rose Springvale: indeed, but ... i'l warn you i have one hour
[13:09] Sonja Strom: yes, I agree!
[13:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if we get any more people here I shall be used as a seat never mind a chair
[13:09] Lauran Quan: where do i seat?
[13:09] Lauran Quan: can be any chair?
[13:09] Sudane Erato: anyplace!
[13:09] Rose Springvale: anyplace Lauran
[13:09] Wasp Thor: Men who like to be chairs also like Dommes
[13:09] Sonja Strom: yes Lauran
[13:09] Lauran Quan: ok rose
[13:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ok thankyou for coming ladies and gents
[13:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: as you may or may not be aware this meeting is held on account of recent discussion in the RA re: Commercial use of space
[13:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the outlook is to be about maximising potential
[13:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: discovering opportunities
[13:12] Rose Springvale: /may i interrupt and ask if i can record the meeting for posting later?
[13:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and working together
[13:12] Sudane Erato: fine with me
[13:12] Sonja Strom:
[13:12] Wasp Thor: good idea
[13:12] Rose Springvale: if youd all just consent in chat, i'll take a record
[13:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: all in agreement with being recorded make a
[13:13] DeliaLake Beaumont: yes please record, Rose.
[13:13] Wasp Thor: AYE
[13:13] Sonja Strom:
[13:13] Solomon Mosely: consenting
[13:13] Soro Dagostino: consent
[13:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Klaus ?
[13:13] Rose Springvale: i'll get him in im, he's no doubt multi tasking
[13:14] Sudane Erato: bless you
[13:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: bless me
[13:14] Wasp Thor: I love this sim but I hate the fog
[13:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I volunteered to chair this commission and I hope you can each help me to do my best
[13:14] Rose Springvale: ctrl alt shift and minus sign, all together Wasp
[13:15] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: Pardon.
[13:15] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: Ja, I consent.
[13:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am a Visual merchandiser in RL so I hope I can assist or perhaps I should be sacked
[13:15] Rose Springvale: thanks
[13:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Rosy will summarise
[13:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'm somewhat verbose
[13:16] Rose Springvale: smile.
[13:16] Sonja Strom: lol
[13:16] Rose Springvale: okay, i type fast, so i will
[13:16] Rose Springvale:
[13:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and tend to talk and make jokes
[13:16] Soro Dagostino: Uh huh!
[13:17] Rose Springvale: as many of you know, last week in the RA a proposal was discussed to ban the use of commercial parcels on the Platz from being used as political headquarters... i believe outside of the election season
[13:17] Rose Springvale: in the 8th RA
[13:17] Rose Springvale: there was a long and detailed discussion of the uses of commercial space in CDS
[13:17] Rose Springvale: to try to encourage more businesses
[13:17] Rose Springvale: one issue was the definition of "commercial"
[13:18] Rose Springvale: meaning.. did it mean only shops selling goods?
[13:18] Rose Springvale: were services okay?
[13:18] Rose Springvale: what about non profits?
[13:18] Rose Springvale: what about sl presences of RL businesses
[13:18] Rose Springvale: what about... and here we have it.. political offices
[13:18] Rose Springvale: the determination then was the broader definition
[13:19] Rose Springvale: As we try to regroup with harmonizing covenants and tier cost in our sims
[13:19] Rose Springvale: it makes sense for our definitions to apply across the board
[13:19] Rose Springvale: so today we are here to talk about what commerce means
[13:19] Rose Springvale: for us
[13:19] Rose Springvale: done
[13:19] DeliaLake Beaumont: ty Rose
[13:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: so
[13:19] Wasp Thor: In all honesty, all of the above are in RL communities and malls
[13:20] Solomon Mosely: yes, and how do we feel about that fact?
[13:20] Rose Springvale: Maybe sonja would like to lead off, since it is her proposal?
[13:20] Solomon Mosely: i mean, is that good in rl too?
[13:21] Sonja Strom: I was only thinking of the Marketplace in Neufreistadt.
[13:21] Sonja Strom: For me personally I would much prefer to see shops there than political party offices.
[13:22] Sonja Strom: I have never seen poltical party offices in a Marktplatz in RL Central Europe,
[13:22] Rose Springvale: smiles, happens all the time in downtowns in the US
[13:22] Sonja Strom: which it seems to me is the theme of NFS.
[13:22] Wasp Thor: yes
[13:22] Sudane Erato: and also in Greece!
[13:22] Wasp Thor: every mall has them
[13:22] Soro Dagostino: My goodness -- we must be rid of those noisy politicians!
[13:22] Solomon Mosely: i agree, it seems funny though it happens all the time here.
[13:23] Sonja Strom: The only place in the German-speaking area I have seen that is in the German Democratic Republic,
[13:23] Sonja Strom: the former East Germany.
[13:23] Rose Springvale: do you think we shuld have different rules for different commercial districts within CDS?
[13:23] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: There's the point that visitors are less likely to be interested in the political offices.
[13:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the question could be what is the disadvantage of the political office in the platz ?
[13:23] Solomon Mosely: but our politics are a focus of our existance here
[13:23] Sonja Strom: But if the community here wants to have political party offices there then that is ok with me.
[13:23] Solomon Mosely: and stu, what do we want to show guests?
[13:23] Sonja Strom: I was working to take them away, but they can start coming back.
[13:23] Sudane Erato: I agree with Klaus... the real value should be placed in those shops which generate traffic
[13:24] Solomon Mosely: do they?
[13:24] Sonja Strom: That's about all I have to say about it.
[13:24] Sudane Erato: not if people have less interest in them
[13:24] Wasp Thor: the stores in the malls that are political are very small
[13:24] Rose Springvale: do you think though, that our democratic experiement doesn't generate traffice?
[13:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: anyone care to suggest a disadvantage of the presence of the offices ?
[13:24] Rose Springvale: sadly, MOST CDS people dont' do factions
[13:24] Rose Springvale: even the ones in them
[13:25] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: Casual visitors here for the sights definitely do not 'do factions'.
[13:25] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: Such as those for Oktoberfest.
[13:25] Solomon Mosely: perhaps the virtual political model here could be developed as an attraction
[13:25] Rose Springvale: personally, i'm in favor of zones... would love to have a street for only political offices
[13:25] Sudane Erato: although in general i'd support their presence, the diasadvantage is that they are mostly used as very visible signboards
[13:25] Rose Springvale: but they do pay their tier
[13:25] Sudane Erato: yes
[13:25] Soro Dagostino: Pesky politicials
[13:25] Sudane Erato: they have to
[13:26] Wasp Thor: you could limit the signs as they do in RL
[13:26] KlausWulfenbach Outlander chuckles
[13:26] Rose Springvale: how so Wasp?
[13:26] Wasp Thor: limit the size
[13:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think perhaps that the importance of the offices is that they set us apart ?
[13:26] Solomon Mosely: how about one "government house" that could have a presence on the main square, as a part of our city, but it houses all the party offices?
[13:26] Wasp Thor: of the sign
[13:26] Rose Springvale: do we get into free speech issues?
[13:26] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: I like that, Herr Mosely.
[13:26] Sonja Strom: I think that's a good idea, Solomon.
[13:26] Rose Springvale: well Sol, this particular building is used for meetings
[13:26] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: Or request they swap out one block back.
[13:26] Rose Springvale: and is private property
[13:26] Solomon Mosely: yes, this building makes me like that thoght
[13:27] Solomon Mosely: well, the state can just swoop in and take it!
[13:27] DeliaLake Beaumont: maybe we might think about what the factions' functions are during non election time
[13:27] Sudane Erato: bless you
[13:27] Sonja Strom: That way those who are interested can find the information there, but all the buildings would not be competing with each other for attention.
[13:27] Rose Springvale: good point Delia... i think they should be MORE present instead of less, personally
[13:27] Sonja Strom: ok, that's fine.
[13:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can I ask
[13:28] Sonja Strom: The DPU wants to have my building for an office, so we can move forward with that.
[13:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: a question and perhaps we can measure agreement around the room
[13:28] Sonja Strom: I was trying to keep that from happening... but if it is wanted by the community then I will be okay with that.
[13:29] Rose Springvale: sonja, that building was a dpu office for years wasn't it?
[13:29] Rose Springvale: sorry stui, go on
[13:29] Sonja Strom: Yes Rose, and I took that away.
[13:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Do we come to CDS for the politics or is the commerce the more important... does the politics serve the commercial plots... or the retail bring people to the politics ?
[13:29] Sonja Strom: There used to be a CSDF office on the Platz too,
[13:29] Rose Springvale: long time
[13:30] Sonja Strom: and they also chose to take theirs away.
[13:30] Rose Springvale: Simplicity has only recently had a presence at all
[13:30] StuiChicanne Darkstone: are we a mall or a project ?
[13:30] Sonja Strom: How long is *recently*?
[13:30] Rose Springvale: DPU also has an office in CN
[13:30] Sudane Erato: Stui, i feel that whether we come for politics or not... there must be a thriving commercial activity
[13:30] DeliaLake Beaumont: i agree, Sudane
[13:30] Rose Springvale: and CSDF is big and bold in the valley
[13:30] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that is true and the answer I hoped for
[13:31] DeliaLake Beaumont: it seems to me that we need a vibrant mix of activities
[13:31] Soro Dagostino: Taking off the hat of sarcasam
[13:31] Soro Dagostino: The real goal is traffic.
[13:31] Sudane Erato: agreed
[13:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I wonder if we can't maximise the potential of what we have
[13:31] Soro Dagostino: Of every kind and stripe.
[13:31] Sudane Erato: and an economy
[13:31] DeliaLake Beaumont: some retail, some services, some nonprofits, some government
[13:31] Solomon Mosely: and whats that phrase about a government seen least... or something...
[13:32] DeliaLake Beaumont: otherwise you have a project not a community
[13:32] Solomon Mosely: one of our lawyers should know
[13:32] Sudane Erato: "he that governs least, governs best"?
[13:32] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:32] Solomon Mosely: there it is
[13:32] KlausWulfenbach Outlander snickers
[13:32] Soro Dagostino: Solomon -- CDS is a show place of self government.
[13:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I read the past observations and read the extremes of traffic control
[13:32] Solomon Mosely: yes, do we need to have them in the mall to do their job?
[13:32] Wasp Thor: I don't think a few political signs have anything to do with stores that have good items to sell
[13:32] Rose Springvale: how do we show that without getting overbearing with faction offices?
[13:32] Solomon Mosely: well, and what do we want to show?
[13:33] Wasp Thor: I spend a lot of time in shopping malls and I pay no attention to anything but the shops
[13:33] Sudane Erato:
[13:33] Solomon Mosely: i think the activities and creative genius in cds should be shown off more than the politics
[13:34] Rose Springvale: so shall we limit our main shopping locales to ONLY shops?
[13:34] Solomon Mosely: as any community, if we are to be a model
[13:34] Rose Springvale: kick out the law offices?
[13:34] Wasp Thor: hahahaha
[13:34] Saffia Widdershins is Online
[13:34] Sudane Erato: god yes!
[13:34] Rose Springvale: kick out the service providers?
[13:34] Solomon Mosely: i dont see whty we would
[13:34] Solomon Mosely: why*
[13:34] Rose Springvale: secondary shops only unless you have goods for sale?
[13:34] DeliaLake Beaumont: what do the factions do during non election time other than advertise their presence for election time? maybe the factions should be more active ongoingly.
[13:34] Rose Springvale would like to eliminate factions... shhhh
[13:34] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I believe that in general customers are after buying they set out to find something, there is an aspect of impulse buying but they would not distracted by politics
[13:34] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: Well said.
[13:35] Wasp Thor: I agree
[13:35] Wasp Thor: I ignore the political signs
[13:35] Rose Springvale: DPU does a good job of participating in our events... not so much the rest
[13:35] DeliaLake Beaumont: and not in a contentious partisan way like during elections. if they are not going to provide useful functions, just take up the space as advertising then maybe they shouldn't be on the platz
[13:35] Sudane Erato: well... we do want to encourage political participation
[13:35] StuiChicanne Darkstone: political signs are not the enemy of commerce, it becomes just a matter of general aesthetics
[13:35] Solomon Mosely: so it is worse that we have space in the main square that people will ignore
[13:36] Rose Springvale: but with our rules on numbers i hesitate to limit visibility
[13:36] Rose Springvale: for those who don't know
[13:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and a matter of if the space is better used for another purpose
[13:36] Rose Springvale: to stand candidates in a CdS election
[13:36] DeliaLake Beaumont: i like having retail, and i also like having services. for instance on Etopia there is a rl cat veterinarian who holds office hours
[13:36] Rose Springvale: a faction must have in its membership at least 10% o the cds population
[13:37] Rose Springvale: if we have 100 citizens, each faction must have 10 members to run
[13:37] Rose Springvale: not sure what the other two current factions have, but i'm showing 13 in Simplicity right now
[13:37] Solomon Mosely: well, what would we want ideally? a government that we sought and participated in willingly, not because they had good signage.
[13:38] Rose Springvale: educated populace
[13:38] Solomon Mosely: and we all live here because mostly of the community here, which is based on the government
[13:38] Sudane Erato: ahh... but even politics leans on marketing
[13:38] Sonja Strom: It might be worth pointing out that the Marktplatz in Neufreistadt already has its own separate covenant.
[13:38] Solomon Mosely: hwo are the platz plots advertising to?
[13:38] Rose Springvale: sonja, as does every nook and cranny in CDS...which we need to harmonize
[13:38] Rose Springvale: i'll be very pushy on htat
[13:39] Sonja Strom: We can make a rule that is the same for all commercial areas in the CDS, but we don't have to.
[13:39] Rose Springvale: the current covenant specifically allows political offices i think
[13:39] Sonja Strom: No, it does not.
[13:39] Rose Springvale: i think the amendments to the commerce act do
[13:39] Sonja Strom: It actually says everything on the place must be retail.
[13:39] Rose Springvale: i think that's been amended
[13:40] DeliaLake Beaumont: might it be possible for the factions to share space? even during elections they don't usually schedule meetings at the same time
[13:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: is the concern that retail could be increased ?
[13:40] Sonja Strom: Maybe, and the changes just have not been posted - I have seen that happen with other things.
[13:40] Rose Springvale: and frankly, we'd have trouble enforcing that given past practices even if it hasn't
[13:40] Sudane Erato: i think that whatever increases retail would be of great value
[13:41] Sudane Erato: if in fact it did
[13:41] Rose Springvale: okay, so i am hearing a consensus here
[13:41] Rose Springvale: that you all would rather keep the politics off the platz?
[13:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: for there are ways to improve traffic that do not require evictions or rezoning
[13:41] DeliaLake Beaumont: retail yes, services yes
[13:41] Rose Springvale: so the law office is okay for you Delia?
[13:41] Solomon Mosely: i do think that it should have a presence
[13:41] Sudane Erato: what if we permitted political signs... on retail establishments
[13:42] Sudane Erato: ?
[13:42] Rose Springvale: well
[13:42] Sonja Strom: The existing Marktplatz covenant (as it is posted) can be found here: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=covenant
[13:42] Solomon Mosely: yes, but not the lawyers
[13:42] Rose Springvale: playing devils advocate here
[13:42] Sudane Erato: that would preserve the parcels for retail
[13:42] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: If they wish to use their prims that way, that's personal business.
[13:42] Sonja Strom: At the very bottom of that page.
[13:42] Rose Springvale: how much does it take to be retail?
[13:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if we look at the retail here, I am sure it could be improved by creative improvements
[13:42] Sonja Strom: Zone P
[13:42] Rose Springvale: sonja, i went through all that
[13:42] Rose Springvale: and it has been amended by the 8th RA
[13:42] Rose Springvale: definitions
[13:42] Sonja Strom: Where are the amendments?
[13:42] Rose Springvale: be happy to show you later, but lets focus on the discussions
[13:43] Rose Springvale: because i think you'll agree that it hasn't been enforced
[13:43] Rose Springvale: even if it's current
[13:43] Sonja Strom: I think the existing covenants are important to this conversation.
[13:43] Rose Springvale: and we are talking since i've been here... in 2007
[13:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ok here's something to think over
[13:43] Rose Springvale: there have ALWAYS been non retail establishments on the platz. Always
[13:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: how many times have you been in SL retail and found a store full of vendors ?
[13:44] Sonja Strom: A lot of the time 
[13:44] Wasp Thor: I think you can limit the size of any sign, political or otherwise and not spoil a shoping mall
[13:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: what does it do to your attention ?
[13:44] Wasp Thor: nothing
[13:44] Sonja Strom: For me it depends on what picture I see on the vendor -
[13:45] Sonja Strom: whether or not I am interested in looking further.
[13:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: do you experienceboredom ?
[13:45] Rose Springvale: actually sonja, wasn't your shop part of the bidding to revitalize commerce under the same act that amended?
[13:45] Sonja Strom: No
[13:45] Wasp Thor: all the time
[13:45] Wasp Thor: hahaha
[13:45] Rose Springvale: had to be approved ?
[13:45] Sonja Strom: It could be... I will try to find that.
[13:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: perhaps you find that you can't be troubled to look across the whole store
[13:45] Rose Springvale: what is the point Stu
[13:46] Rose Springvale: ?
[13:46] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the point
[13:46] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well it relates to maximising retail potential
[13:46] Sudane Erato: i see where he is going... makes a lot of sense
[13:46] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you can sell more and build a reputation for quality and so forth
[13:47] Solomon Mosely: well, do we have people interview to rent here?
[13:47] Sudane Erato: bless you
[13:47] Solomon Mosely: if they have good merchandising skills?
[13:47] StuiChicanne Darkstone: by getting people interested in what you sell
[13:47] Solomon Mosely: and a ood graphic artist?
[13:47] Wasp Thor: I only shop for clothes, so I only go into stores that have nice windows
[13:47] StuiChicanne Darkstone: by presenting it well
[13:47] Soro Dagostino: and getting rid of those pesky politicians who make people think.
[13:47] Wasp Thor: yes
[13:47] Rose Springvale: its always been first come first serve Solomon, and once a platz location is taken, it rarely goes back on the market
[13:47] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you can sell more by getting people in the mindset
[13:47] Rose Springvale: many of them are with the original owners
[13:48] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and by presenting things in a professional manner
[13:48] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I don't advocate interviews
[13:48] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or evictions
[13:48] Rose Springvale: those are great points stui, for increasing our retail presence
[13:48] Solomon Mosely: i agree stu, so maybe you could offer some 'retail thereapy' sessions for shop owners to upgrade, but what does that have to do with the zoning?
[13:48] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but as a principle we have creative minds
[13:48] Wasp Thor: women have only one mind set, is that outfit going to make me look hot
[13:48] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we could each help one another
[13:48] Rose Springvale: hey
[13:49] Sudane Erato: hehe
[13:49] KlausWulfenbach Outlander raises an eyebrow
[13:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: suggestions
[13:49] Solomon Mosely: excuse me
[13:49] Wasp Thor: here or in RL
[13:49] Rose Springvale: Stui, i agree, but we are off topic a bit
[13:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: not dictations
[13:49] Rose Springvale: that will be next weeks meeting
[13:49] Rose Springvale:
[13:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'm always ahead of my time
[13:49] DeliaLake Beaumont: yes, stui. would you be willing to hold a class for platz retailers on visual merchandising?
[13:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if they wanted
[13:50] Rose Springvale: and Forum and Souk and Partel?
[13:50] Rose Springvale: remember we have 4 commercial areas
[13:50] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am working on a few projects
[13:50] Rose Springvale: and i'll hammer again.. Colonia Nova is in dire straits
[13:50] Sudane Erato: i think that if the politicians took Stui's point to heart, they wouldn't need to remove the shops from the retail use
[13:50] Rose Springvale: we NEED help there
[13:50] Wasp Thor: how so
[13:50] Solomon Mosely: hi, i would like to submit my idea about haveing the political offices and funcion in a central building, leaving the rest for retail and actual activity while maintaining a presence
[13:50] Rose Springvale: one issue there
[13:50] DeliaLake Beaumont: yes, for all merchants in the CDS
[13:50] Sonja Strom: I agree with Solomon.
[13:50] Rose Springvale: right now
[13:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the point here is, does the political office have a detrimental effect or should it be honoured as a principle of the sim ?
[13:51] Rose Springvale: all those offices are PRIVATE property
[13:51] Rose Springvale: you are proposing public use
[13:51] Rose Springvale: why not just rezone?
[13:51] Solomon Mosely: yes, i am
[13:51] Rose Springvale: say.. have your office
[13:51] Rose Springvale: but have it on Talenstrasse
[13:51] Rose Springvale: or one of the side streets
[13:51] Solomon Mosely: that the factions are public use
[13:51] Rose Springvale: just not the forum, not the platz
[13:51] Rose Springvale: no
[13:52] Sonja Strom: I will offer my building for a Community Information Center for political party materials.
[13:52] Solomon Mosely: yes, not private entities
[13:52] Rose Springvale: actually, they can't be or then lose their integrity
[13:52] DeliaLake Beaumont: yes, i'm inclined to agee with Sol. i might even think about donating my corner lot on Catfahrt for faction use
[13:52] Solomon Mosely: tehy serve the public
[13:52] Sudane Erato: we already have a Community Info center, no?
[13:52] Sonja Strom: But only if it is the only politlical building on the Platz.
[13:52] Sonja Strom: That's true too Sudane.
[13:52] Solomon Mosely: so i can call an ra member and ask about current events?
[13:53] Sonja Strom: Hi Jamie
[13:53] Rose Springvale: i have two little fachwerks, and there are a couple more in inventory
[13:53] Sudane Erato: hushed silence as the Chancellor arrives
[13:53] DeliaLake Beaumont: hi Jamie
[13:53] Jamie Palisades smiles, nods hello
[13:53] Rose Springvale: if we want to ask people to move off the platz
[13:53] Rose Springvale: hey boss
[13:53] Solomon Mosely: hi jamie
[13:54] Rose Springvale: i'm keeping a transcript
[13:54] Rose Springvale: but will have to shut down in about ten minutes
[13:54] Jamie Palisades squints - something that's capable of shocking Sudane into awe? better write that one down ...
[13:54] Solomon Mosely: and rose, about the building
[13:54] Sudane Erato:
[13:54] Solomon Mosely: it is a public building to house any qnd all qualified factions
[13:54] DeliaLake Beaumont: right now my plot on Cartfahrt is a walled garden. it could be repurposed
[13:54] Rose Springvale scrollsup
[13:54] Rose Springvale: is it residential though?
[13:54] Solomon Mosely: it has the online status, links, etc...
[13:54] Solomon Mosely: no
[13:55] Solomon Mosely: its like the town hall
[13:55] DeliaLake Beaumont: checking...
[13:55] Solomon Mosely: on any town plaza
[13:55] Sudane Erato: i think everything within the walls *could be* commercial, if the owner desired
[13:56] Rose Springvale: so you all think NO political offices as separate buildings?
[13:56] Soro Dagostino: No
[13:56] Solomon Mosely: and i think it could be like a 'living museum' about our political model here too
[13:56] Sonja Strom: That is what I would like - but only talking about directly on the Marktplatz.
[13:56] Soro Dagostino: Run the politician out
[13:56] Sudane Erato:
[13:56] Sonja Strom: Anywhere off the Marktplatz is different for me.
[13:56] Rose Springvale: soro
[13:57] Rose Springvale: your sailboat is sinking
[13:57] Solomon Mosely: for visitors that have no idea what those wierd shops are with some 'platform' posted
[13:57] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: One large building with booths for each of the factions might be beneficial as it will be easier for those 'shopping' to compare materials.
[13:57] Rose Springvale: year round or during election season only?
[13:57] Soro Dagostino: And start fights.
[13:57] Solomon Mosely: why do you keep saying that soro?
[13:57] Rose Springvale: he's a troublemaker
[13:57] Sonja Strom: I think if it was only one building, it could be year-round.
[13:57] Jamie Palisades smiles. You all know my view on CSDF and DPU being there for 2 years with no objections -- but I'm more interested in the legal issues. Do we only outlaw politics? And is that only SL politics? Or do we require "retail"?
[13:57] Solomon Mosely: yes klaus
[13:57] Soro Dagostino: Devil's advocate
[13:58] Solomon Mosely: ok
[13:58] Rose Springvale: see you ran sudane off!
[13:58] Solomon Mosely: but it could be a great spot for people to learn about what we do here
[13:58] Rose Springvale: okay, if we move the CDS politics to some "other place"
[13:58] Sonja Strom: I agree with Solomon there too.
[13:58] Rose Springvale: what about Jamie's points
[13:59] Rose Springvale: what about theDemocratic headquarters
[13:59] Rose Springvale: or Obama's office
[13:59] Rose Springvale: or the empty law office
[13:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: to remove all political influence from a place of high traffic is to limit the chances of people understanding that CDS is not just another mall
[13:59] Rose Springvale: i agree stui
[13:59] Wasp Thor: or the office of the KKK
[13:59] Soro Dagostino: Agreed
[13:59] Solomon Mosely: i agree stui
[13:59] Rose Springvale: exactly Wasp
[13:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we are a political sim
[13:59] Sonja Strom: I am not wanting for there to be no information, just not having a Marktplatz dominated by offices of political parties.
[13:59] Solomon Mosely: right, its kinda boring
[14:00] Soro Dagostino: There is only one right now.
[14:00] Rose Springvale: how many buidings are on the platz?
[14:00] Rose Springvale: it is private property though folks
[14:00] Solomon Mosely: and frankly, those offices are usually taken up in rl when there arent others to rent to
[14:00] Rose Springvale: paid for dearly as i recall
[14:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it is not to the detriment of retail that we are, but rather our point of difference
[14:00] Sonja Strom: But, as I say... I am willing to go with what the community wants.
[14:00] Solomon Mosely: and the landlord needs the loot
[14:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: one limiting factor of retail is if you have stores selling only theme correct stock
[14:01] Rose Springvale: though sonja, i do think we have to look at your agreement with CDS... i think you were awarded that one because you said it would be retail, yes?
[14:01] Jamie Palisades: that's correct
[14:01] Solomon Mosely: i agree stu
[14:01] Jamie Palisades: Sonja & Anna's store is on the half-price six-month special deal set up to encourage retail last term
[14:01] Solomon Mosely: i dont think we have any rule saying it has to be, do we?
[14:01] Rose Springvale: ideally, we would have a huge variety of top quality merchandise
[14:02] Jamie Palisades: (which I see nothign wrong with by the way)
[14:02] Rose Springvale: and if we as a city owned the stores
[14:02] Rose Springvale: we could always raise the rent
[14:02] Rose Springvale: but this is PRIVATE land
[14:02] Rose Springvale: so we need to be mindful of what we are really saying here
[14:02] Solomon Mosely: does the city own any land on the platz?
[14:02] Rose Springvale: the platz, this building
[14:02] Rose Springvale: and the info center?
[14:02] Jamie Palisades: Rose, a prior RA suggestioned raising rent on dead or nonconforming stores as a deterrent - it was to voted down
[14:02] Solomon Mosely: this building?
[14:03] Sonja Strom: The six months of my agreement is over.
[14:03] Rose Springvale: i think that was right
[14:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: what is the overall benefit of the removal of the political office ?
[14:03] Solomon Mosely: is publicly owned?
[14:03] Rose Springvale: yes
[14:03] Rose Springvale: this is public
[14:03] Sonja Strom: Now it is free to fit the normal covenants.
[14:03] Solomon Mosely: well this is perfect
[14:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I do not think you can judge the merits of a store on it's traffic
[14:04] Solomon Mosely: i thought this was klauses place
[14:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it may have high visitors but no sales
[14:04] Jamie Palisades smiles. As to this bldg it is CDS land. (Owned by Rudeen.) As for Sonja's store, did your rent raise, Sonja, or may we continue the arrangement?
[14:04] Rose Springvale: klaus is down the street
[14:04] DeliaLake Beaumont: the political offices during non election times don't seem to be used. i don't see anyone in them. so they are pretty much dead space much of the year
[14:04] Sonja Strom: Yes, my tier is at full price.
[14:04] Rose Springvale: we've used the simplicity office several times
[14:04] Solomon Mosely: or ive also seen great stuff in dead shops
[14:04] Sonja Strom: It has been for a month.
[14:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and it is true that a failing retail property goes bust by it's own lack of success
[14:04] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: The Consulate is across the street.
[14:05] DeliaLake Beaumont: but in a retail or service space, you can go in and purchase or request services whether or not anyone else is in the shop
[14:05] StuiChicanne Darkstone: dead space can be so only because the causes have not been looked at
[14:06] Jamie Palisades: Delia, what would you do - deadwise - with a zero traffic store that sells nothing but pays rent -- like the law office, or FlyingRoc's?
[14:06] Rose Springvale: do we have a recomendation?
[14:06] Rose Springvale: oops, sorry
[14:06] Jamie Palisades: and is a consulate different than a "faction"? 
[14:07] Soro Dagostino: It seems to me that the political office space can serve dual purposes.
[14:07] DeliaLake Beaumont: yes, a consulate is different.
[14:07] Soro Dagostino: Political and educational.
[14:07] Solomon Mosely: and how would we ever know if a place has no sales?
[14:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you know that strange people will only find new stores using the search tab... therefore you need an arresting image on there and to have the stock described adequately
[14:07] Solomon Mosely: ?
[14:07] Rose Springvale: okay, i'm going to bring this back around if you don't mind
[14:08] Rose Springvale: i think we have only consensus on one thing
[14:08] Rose Springvale: and that is most people do not wish to see political offices on the platz
[14:08] Soro Dagostino: I disagree
[14:08] Rose Springvale: though no comment has been made about the other three commercial areas
[14:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Rose do we have a reason for their not wishing to see them ?
[14:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: like a short list
[14:09] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: I would think this would apply to the others, unless they have a plethora of unoccupied space.
[14:09] Jamie Palisades: any consensus on how we write the law to acheive that without breaking the constitution>? Heh. I;m not planning to keep the one I own -- but for now I thikn it's better not to move it, given the urges towards social nationalization i am hearing here.
[14:09] Rose Springvale: we have no consensus on the use of platz buildings for consulates, law offices, or other service businesses
[14:09] Jamie Palisades: and again, i think anyone who tried to WRITE a rule that outlaws some activites and not others would find it more complex that they may think
[14:09] Sonja Strom: It could be an amendment to the covenant that applies to the Marktplatz.
[14:09] Rose Springvale: i'm still in favor of a special zone for politics
[14:10] Wasp Thor: I think if we vote on policy it has to be for all market places
[14:10] Rose Springvale: i will adamantly oppose any more specific covenants to commercial areas that do not apply across the sims
[14:10] Soro Dagostino: Put the vermin behind bars.
[14:10] Solomon Mosely: yes wwasp
[14:10] Rose Springvale: it is too complicated for newcomers as it is
[14:10] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: So there is a second concensus - that it applies to all the commercial spaces.
[14:10] Wasp Thor: I agree
[14:10] Jamie Palisades: I agree with Wasp - and we do have *some*, just not many.
[14:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'm intrigued to know the reasoning for the dislike of the political office and ambivalence to services
[14:11] Jamie Palisades: Ask the proponents, Stui
[14:11] DeliaLake Beaumont: i agree with Wasp re commercial spaces across the CDS also
[14:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: anyone care to give concise reasoning ?
[14:11] Wasp Thor: it's too confusing to do otherwise
[14:12] Sonja Strom: In general I find retail shops more interesting to look at when I first visit a town than political information about it.
[14:12] Solomon Mosely: i think it commercializes the politics, like they are commodities
[14:12] Soro Dagostino: They are.
[14:12] Sonja Strom: I think shops look more fun... usually.
[14:12] Solomon Mosely: it seems cheep
[14:12] Jamie Palisades: So, Sonja, what about empty shops with zero traffic and nothing for sale?
[14:12] Solomon Mosely: and its boring as hell for the visting shopper
[14:12] Soro Dagostino: Open politics are the hallmark of CDS
[14:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but is that sufficient for relocating ?
[14:13] Sonja Strom: I could fill all of those spaces with retail shops.
[14:13] Wasp Thor: can we vote on limited political activity or none
[14:13] Rose Springvale: i don't like the gun store
[14:13] Rose Springvale: but that doesn't mean it doesnt' have a right to be here
[14:13] Solomon Mosely: so lets have politics here, but not ressed as a boutique
[14:13] Sonja Strom: I have had several people contact me asking if they could buy a shop there.
[14:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: in my experience shoppers are scarcely distracted
[14:13] Solomon Mosely: dressed*
[14:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I have seen shoppers still shop when told to evacuate
[14:13] Solomon Mosely: no, but easily bored
[14:13] DeliaLake Beaumont: if the factions held office hours and there were people there during those times to help citizens better understand our political system, and also to generally offer help to the general population like they do in rl i might not be opposed to having them on the platz, but would still be in favor of a shared space
[14:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or during remembrance silences
[14:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or with drama around them
[14:14] Jamie Palisades: interesting to hear it. Why do you suppose they contacted you and not Rose or Sudane or me, Sonja? Are we doing something wrong, in being available to such inquiries?
[14:14] Rose Springvale: that's a good point.. but why not require other shops to be staffed too?
[14:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it's not like a woman goes shopping and ends up in every mens store between her favourite stores
[14:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: she ignores them
[14:14] Rose Springvale: i only go in mens stores that have transfer
[14:15] Jamie Palisades: From Delia's rule I would infer - stores must be staffed? Not sure that's very SL. And would that get us a Platz full of bots?
[14:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: unless she thinks about a male she knows who might need a product
[14:15] Wasp Thor: I never go into men's stores LOL
[14:15] Solomon Mosely: she thinks they sell men there
[14:15] Wasp Thor: they don't
[14:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that doesn't tend to include political bumpf
[14:15] Wasp Thor: I asked
[14:15] Sonja Strom: Jamie, I don't know - I am surprised you have not had people asking you about wanting to have a building on the Marktplatz -- but I have.
[14:15] Solomon Mosely: wrong sim for that
[14:15] DeliaLake Beaumont: no, Jamie. vendor machines can service shoppers
[14:15] Jamie Palisades slips Wasp a few LMs quietly, giggling
[14:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: so the distraction argument doesn't hold water with me
[14:16] Rose Springvale: smiles... lets regroup here... lots of good ideas
[14:16] Rose Springvale: staffing, zoning and sales contacts
[14:16] Solomon Mosely: retail politics
[14:16] Wasp Thor: can we vote on no political or limited political
[14:16] Solomon Mosely: just say it outloud there at home
[14:16] Rose Springvale: nope
[14:16] Rose Springvale: smile
[14:16] Rose Springvale: we have to decide what commercial is
[14:17] Rose Springvale: not limit one because we don't think it's fun
[14:17] Sonja Strom: In any case, if they were offered to retailers in other places in SL, I think they could fill up. What I did was to contact the owner of my favorite shop for traditional alpine clothing. She came and saw the Platz, and agreed to put a satellite store there.
[14:17] Rose Springvale: soro thinks its fun after all
[14:17] Rose Springvale: ive got people who would also do that
[14:17] Rose Springvale: but
[14:17] Rose Springvale: i dont think alpine clothing is more important than democracy. personally
[14:18] KlausWulfenbach Outlander chuckles
[14:18] Rose Springvale: so we need to have rules that are fair for everyone
[14:18] Wasp Thor: yes
[14:18] Sonja Strom: sure, I don't think that either Rose.
[14:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well law and order mean that you don't have thieves coming in and nicking your smalls all the time
[14:18] Wasp Thor: and limited political locations are fair
[14:18] Sonja Strom: I greatly prefer democracy to any type of clothes.
[14:18] Sonja Strom: Fairness is fine for me
[14:19] Solomon Mosely would like to see that
[14:19] Rose Springvale: so how is it that you find one persons dedication of their parcel to politics to be unfair?
[14:19] Rose Springvale: i think we could have agrement between the factions
[14:19] Wasp Thor: who is in favor of limited political locations
[14:19] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: Herr Darkstone, what did the system just hand you?
[14:19] Sonja Strom: I don't find that Rose. I have been trying to do something that would be equally true for all factions.
[14:20] Wasp Thor: I call the question
[14:20] Sonja Strom: If people want party offices there it is okay with me.
[14:20] Sonja Strom: I don't really want that so much, but I will go with what the community wants.
[14:20] Jamie Palisades: Rose, I think I agree with your biases - but still - whether or not it's today, I think getting a sense of the community answer to Wasp's question would be helpful. (1) Do most citizens - here, and in CDS - like the idea of a ban on some activities in commercial spaces? (2) does that include RL politics, SL consulates, or service shops, or ONLY CDS factions? (3) how do we overcome the constitutional problem of confiscating property? Grandfather it? Penalise it? Or what? (4) If we ban politics as evil, do we set up a political zone somewhere else?
[14:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that's democracy
[14:20] Wasp Thor: do you want limited political or not
[14:21] Solomon Mosely: ok, what is the specific quesion?
[14:21] Solomon Mosely: yes, limited
[14:21] Wasp Thor: limited political stores or nne
[14:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can we go around the room
[14:21] Wasp Thor: none
[14:21] Rose Springvale: I like order. i'd like one street for consulats, one street for politics lol
[14:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: perhaps
[14:21] Wasp Thor: ok
[14:21] Rose Springvale: but jamie's point is right
[14:21] Wasp Thor: that could be in the limited
[14:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: with a 1) to 4)
[14:22] Rose Springvale: if you pay 60000 lindens for a shop for your faction
[14:22] Sonja Strom: What I want is fairness. Fairness at a limited level on the Marktplatz is what I want most.
[14:22] Wasp Thor: but we have the question
[14:22] Rose Springvale: you have the right to have it there
[14:22] Solomon Mosely: i think we should do anything we can to encourage passive aggresive speech too
[14:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and answers concise to each
[14:22] Sonja Strom: lol Solomon
[14:22] Rose Springvale: smiles at solomon
[14:22] Rose Springvale: that will be the week after next's meeting
[14:22] Wasp Thor: what do we want
[14:22] Jamie Palisades smiles and wonders how this group would feel if a future RA outlaws RL politics movements, in commercial space, and then forcibly relocates or confiscates a gay price storefront, or a palestinian rights booth, or some such
[14:22] DeliaLake Beaumont: hmmmm, Rose. interesting. went to a meeting across from the UN headquarters and walked down a streetwith many consulates
[14:23] Jamie Palisades: *pride sorry
[14:23] Rose Springvale: shall we post our transcript and give this another week to think about?
[14:23] Solomon Mosely: i think we should do that
[14:23] Rose Springvale: embassy row Delia
[14:23] Sonja Strom: It's okay, I can give up on this.
[14:23] Solomon Mosely: think for the future possible extremes and work from there
[14:23] DeliaLake Beaumont: yes
[14:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'll gt my rainbow flag out Jamie
[14:23] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: An Embassy Row could be an attraction on its own.
[14:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and refuse to move
[14:23] Jamie Palisades: I agree with Klaus and Delia there
[14:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'll chain myself to railings and burn my bra
[14:23] Rose Springvale: sonja, no one wants you to give up.. we just want to make sure we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater
[14:24] Sonja Strom: I can support letting everybody do whatever they want.
[14:24] Rose Springvale: ive got two houses i will donate which are around the corner from Europa now for embassies
[14:24] Solomon Mosely: having 'districts' could be an interesting feature to the city
[14:24] Jamie Palisades: Actually I like Sonja's idea I just want it to be targeted appropropriately
[14:24] Solomon Mosely: or we could call them "ghettos"
[14:24] Rose Springvale: lol
[14:24] Solomon Mosely: and make them wear pathces for the patries
[14:25] Jamie Palisades: well if we can talk the RA into extended NFS to the East this year, we will have some room to try such things, smile
[14:25] Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm -- while I don't favor goverment restrictions, it shouldn't be a "free for all"
[14:25] Sonja Strom: Jamie, what do you mean 'appropriately'?
[14:25] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: That is a Dutch word, this is German.
[14:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can I ask which district will become the gay one ?
[14:25] Sonja Strom: hehee
[14:25] Rose Springvale: there goes the neighborhood....
[14:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I should very much like to know where I may stand in future
[14:25] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: The one with the pink house.
[14:25] Jamie Palisades: Sonjam, I mean, a class of prohibition which is aimed at a reasonable classification .. so .. if factions, why not also empty service industries or RLpolitics?
[14:25] Solomon Mosely: we should be so lucky as to have one stui
[14:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: isn't community about diversity
[14:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and integration
[14:26] Solomon Mosely: always the most profitable neighborhoods
[14:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and tolerance ?
[14:26] Jamie Palisades: One hopes, Stui
[14:26] Rose Springvale: smiles, see why you live in AA?
[14:26] Sonja Strom: Stui, will you be my escort to there? hehee
[14:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then why are we being everything but
[14:26] Rose Springvale: we are NOT prohibiting use
[14:26] Rose Springvale: we are trying to zone it
[14:26] Jamie Palisades briefly considers creating an I -heart-CDS group tag, smiles
[14:26] Rose Springvale: so that we have vibrance on the market place
[14:27] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: Those who are interested in politics will seek them out, even if the locations are not spoon-fed to them.
[14:27] Rose Springvale: at least that's what i thought we were doing
[14:27] Solomon Mosely: i agree rose
[14:27] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: Casual visitors want to look at pretty things, buy souvenirs and forget their landmark back here.
[14:28] Jamie Palisades: amen, Klaus
[14:28] Rose Springvale: and get on Rose's friends list
[14:28] Jamie Palisades makes note -- clone Rose
[14:28] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: Zoning less frivolous offices does not restrict them.
[14:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we could open a brothel and make it super friendly *LOL*
[14:28] Soro Dagostino: OH?
[14:28] Rose Springvale: soro, you are back there with an answer... what is it?
[14:29] Wasp Thor: are you talking to me Stui LOL
[14:29] DeliaLake Beaumont: we would have to change the covenants in order to open a brothel in the CDS
[14:29] Jamie Palisades: actually, that's not against our zoning, Stui "clubs" are. Ask oldtimers what the original CN setup had in mind
[14:29] Rose Springvale: lol
[14:29] Rose Springvale grumbles at the false advertising
[14:29] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: Steelhead found their brothel more trouble than it was worth.
[14:29] Wasp Thor: Good i can put up all of my porn art
[14:29] Jamie Palisades: I respectfully disagree, Delia, though the LINDEN sim class might be affected
[14:29] Sonja Strom: LOL
[14:29] Soro Dagostino: I find that restrictive zoning of politics is an abrigement of free speech.
[14:30] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can hear the bedsprings from here *LOL*
[14:30] Rose Springvale: go on
[14:30] DeliaLake Beaumont: CDS wide covenant "No SL or RL commercial pornography is permitted"
[14:30] Jamie Palisades: Count on me to make that case to the SC, Soro, if some silly RA tries it
[14:30] Rose Springvale: but
[14:30] Soro Dagostino: Whether I am a Devils advocate or seasoned leader of a faction.
[14:30] Rose Springvale: it isnt' realy CDS wide, and that's my pet peeve
[14:30] DeliaLake Beaumont: and of course pornography isnt defined
[14:30] Wasp Thor: is is in the adult zones
[14:31] Sonja Strom: Are limits on pornography an abrigement of free speach?
[14:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: yes there could be that grey area of "art"
[14:31] Wasp Thor: tell LL that
[14:31] Rose Springvale: folks, i'm sorry, but i will have to go here very soon
[14:31] Soro Dagostino: LInden calls it "Adult"
[14:31] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: How is it restrictive? One block off the Marktplatz with unlocked doors.
[14:31] Jamie Palisades: Delia, do we really want that chat? heh a brothel is not comemercial porn. I'd not recommend we encourage them here. but I know people - including in this room - who as landowners rent to brothels.
[14:31] Rose Springvale: do you want to continue with the formal meeting or shall i take the transcript and leave you to informal?
[14:31] Jamie Palisades: if the RA want to ban them , they'd need to pass a law.
[14:31] Wasp Thor: no vote of the political stores
[14:31] Jamie Palisades chuckles at the thought of THAT RA session
[14:32] Wasp Thor: ??
[14:32] Jamie Palisades: Wasp, sorry, you are suggesting we do what?
[14:32] Rose Springvale: i suggest we post these minutes
[14:32] Rose Springvale: and reconvene after we've thought about the potential for both harm and good
[14:32] Wasp Thor: vote on limited political stores or none
[14:33] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: Perhaps this does need more discussion.
[14:33] Sonja Strom: I would like to know the purpose of this Commission. Is it to arrive at a decision...
[14:33] Rose Springvale: i'm not ready to vote personally
[14:33] Sonja Strom: or only have open discussion?
[14:33] Rose Springvale: what did the RA charge it with?
[14:33] DeliaLake Beaumont: well, brothels were around in medieval bavaria.......so it would be authentic
[14:33] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I couldn't vote
[14:33] Rose Springvale: lol
[14:33] Rose Springvale: you guys and your brothels!
[14:33] Jamie Palisades: Gywnnie and Moon & the Ancien Regime did a "cabaret" building here in '04
[14:34] Rose Springvale wants to revive that in Al Garnata
[14:34] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I bet Princess Parisi was top of the bill with he rendition of "My heart will go on"
[14:34] Ceasar Xigalia: i think her name was The Princess
[14:35] Ceasar Xigalia: all one word
[14:35] StuiChicanne Darkstone: pleased for her
[14:35] Rose Springvale: okay, i've got to go meet an airplane
[14:35] Rose Springvale: so i'm going to suggest we meet again
[14:35] Sonja Strom: I am okay with any decision...
[14:35] Rose Springvale: after we've gelled some more thought
[14:35] Sonja Strom: but I would like to have one at some point.
[14:35] Rose Springvale: i personally want some clarity too Sonja
[14:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: next week we will meet again
[14:36] Wasp Thor: even if we accept limited political store we will have a lot of work in zoning size and signage
[14:36] Sonja Strom: okay
[14:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I shal have to check my rota tho
[14:36] Sonja Strom: Thanks everybody!
[14:36] Rose Springvale: Wasp, there are lots of rules already on that, i'll try to get some summaries for you
[14:36] Rose Springvale: thank you all for coming, this was a GREAT discussion
[14:36] Wasp Thor: ok
[14:37] Sonja Strom: Thank you Stui for leading the discussion.
[14:37] DeliaLake Beaumont: thank you Stui
[14:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I try my best
[14:37] Jamie Palisades: Wasp, nice to see you
[14:37] Rose Springvale: yes thanks stui, and i really do want you to do a presentation for us on retail and visuals
[14:37] Solomon Mosely: yes, thanks stui
[14:37] DeliaLake Beaumont: yes, me too Stui
[14:37] Rose Springvale: and solomon, no sneaking off, we are going to start a regular education group i think
[14:37] Sonja Strom: Bye eveyrone.
[14:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: so long as this baby doesn't get thrown out with the bathwater
[14:37] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: Danke to all of you, and Guten Abend.
[14:37] Rose Springvale: smiles
[14:38] Rose Springvale: thanks herr baron!