New Land Sale processes

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Rose Springvale
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New Land Sale processes

Post by Rose Springvale »

As we phase in a new, objective system to sell the land owned by CDS, it is important that everyone who wants land in CDS has an equal opportunity to acquire it. The executive team has put together a process, the first part of which will go into effect immediately, and the balance of which will be presented to the RA for approval next week.
Phase one is outlined below. I will prepare the list of available parcels Monday and send in world and post on this fourm.

Land Sales by CDS.

1. CDS owned land. We will publish a list of all land held by the CDS and deliver it by Group Notice to CDS group and Al Andalus group and by posting on the forums. For a period of 7 days after publication, all parties interested in buying a parcel should send their name,the sim and parcel number they are interested in to Rose Springvale, either in world by notecard titled CDS Land Offer, or by email to [email protected] . If only one person has expressed interest in the parcel, at the end of the 7 day period, the property shall be sold to that person immediately. If more than one person expresses interest in the same parcel, the winner will be chosen by random drawing. The land will be offered to the avatar whose name is selected. For this phase, price and tier will be as stated on the Treasurers page at slcds.info.

If the avatar chosen in the drawing is no longer interested in the land (perhaps having won another parcel) the process will be repeated. The process will also be repeated on a monthly basis whenever CDS has more land in inventory. To purchase land from CDS, you must be in compliance with the limitations on land ownership in each sim, or illustrate how you propose to be in compliance. For example, if you already own 4096 m in Locus Amoenus, and you propose to buy another parcel, you must divest some land to be able to buy more.

Questions may be directed to Rose Springvale or posted on the forums.

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Available Land

Post by Rose Springvale »

This is the land available for purchase in CDS as of October 20, 2009. Please send me a note if you are interested in buying any of these parcels before October 27. See above notice for process.

Colonia Nova
Parcel Name: C.12 SE      Sim Name: Colonia Nova      Size: 816      Price: 11314     Tier: 2264
Parcel Name: C.13 SE      Sim Name: Colonia Nova      Size: 864      Price: 11981     Tier: 2395
Parcel Name: C.19 SW      Sim Name: Colonia Nova      Size: 320      Price: 4436   Tier: 887
Parcel Name: C.20 SW      Sim Name: Colonia Nova      Size: 320      Price: 4436     Tier: 887
Parcel Name: E.04 CARDO      Sim Name: Colonia Nova      Size: 1408      Price: 18020     Tier: 3605
Parcel Name: R.05 FULL COVENANT      Sim Name: Colonia Nova      Size: 1536      Price: 16381     Tier: 3276
Parcel Name: R.06 FULL COVENANT      Sim Name: Colonia Nova      Size: 1536      Price: 16381      Tier: 3276
Parcel Name: L.03       Sim Name: Colonia Nova      Size: 2528      Price: 32353  Tier: 6472

Neufreistadt

Parcel Name: Urusulaweg 2235      Sim Name: Neufreistadt      Size: 192      Price: 1697 L     Tier: 451
Parcel Name: Urusulaweg 2290      Sim Name: Neufreistadt      Size: 144      Price: 1274 L    Tier 338
Parcel Name: Talenstrasse 1090      Sim Name: Neufreistadt      Size: 192      Price: 1697L   Tier: 451
Parcel Name: Gwynethstrasse 1330      Sim Name: Neufreistadt      Size: 192    Price  1697    Tier: 451
Parcel Name: P180      Sim Name: Neufreistadt      Size: 976     Price: 8623   Tier: 1725
Parcel Name: P190      Sim Name: Neufreistadt      Size: 1056   Price: 7352     Tier: 1452

Alpine Meadow (double prim)
Parcel Name: CS5      Sim Name: Alpine Meadow      Size: 1024     Price: 23,806     Tier: 5241
Parcel Name: BS5      Sim Name: Alpine Meadow      Size: 2048     Price: 47,609    Tier: 10,485
Parcel Name: AH1      Sim Name: Alpine Meadow      Size: 4096    Price: 95,219      Tier: 20,966

Locus Amoenus(double prim)
Parcel Name: P.14      Sim Name: Locus Amoenus      Size: 512      Price: 7554     Tier: 2227
Parcel Name: P.34      Sim Name: Locus Amoenus      Size: 1024      Price: 15104     Tier: 4455
Parcel Name: P.36      Sim Name: Locus Amoenus      Size: 1024      Price: 15104    Tier: 4455

Monastery (double prim)
Parcel Name: Hamlet 3      Sim Name: Monastery      Size: 512      Price: 9516    Tier: 3215
Parcel Name: Hamlet 4      Sim Name: Monastery      Size: 512      Price: 9516   Tier: 3215
Parcel Name: Seaview 2      Sim Name: Monastery      Size: 512        Price: 9516    Tier: 3215

Al Andalus Alhambra
Parcel Name: Albaycin Parcel 1 Sim Name: Al Andalus Alhambra Size: 2048  Price: 18100 tier 4764

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Two more parcels

Post by Rose Springvale »

Parcel Name Sudanestrasse 2115 Sim Name: Neufreisetadt Size: 144 Price: 1274 Tier: 338
Parcel Name: Al Garnata 16 Sim Name: Al Andalus Alhambra Size: 2560 Price: 22625 Tier: 5955

(These parcels were abandoned by their owners, who notified us that they were doing so, and thus do not require the several week notification process for CDS to reclaim.)

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Arria Perreault
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Re: New Land Sale processes

Post by Arria Perreault »

It is time to set for sale the numerous parcels that are owned by CDS. As RA member, I will of course encourage this project, hoping that many of these parcels find an owner quickly.
I see also an easier alternative to the proposed process: why not sell these parcels in an auction with the normal price as base? If only one person is interested, she/he will get the land for the normal price. If several people are interested by the same parcel, they can show their interest by offering more money. And CDS can get some money.
If this proposal is a unique action, I can support it is.
If this proposal is seen as the normal process of land sale by CDS, I would like to propose the following Bill to the RA.

Land selling Act

1. Selling land to non-citizen

CDS has interest to provide land for potential citizen. In normal time, all the available parcels are set for sale to non-citizen. Interested people has to contact the land manager who set the parcel for sale.
The land manager informs the PIO of the sale, to make sure that the new citizen get informations about CDS.

2. Selling land to citizen

CDS organizes twice a year a sale of land for citizen. The way of selling is a 2-weeks auction. Non-citizen can also participate to this auction.
If a citizen want to purchase a parcel between two auctions, he/she has to announce his interest to the land manager and the Chancellor. His/her interest to buy the parcel. If no one is interested by the same parcel, the citizen can purchase it. If other citizen announced their interest for this parcel, the Chancellor offers a mediation. The Chancellor uses following criters to help the mediation process:

- project of building through several parcel
- project in the interest of the CDS (commerce, museum, ...)

3. Selling land by the opening of a new sim

CDS organize a 2-weeks auction open to citizen as well to non-citizen.

4. Advertising of land for sale

In order to advertise land for sale, CDS creates an official position of a responsible for land marketing.
The advertising for new land is made in-world as well as through Internet platforms.

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Re: New Land Sale processes

Post by Rose Springvale »

I am strongly opposed to this idea. CDS land far outprices all themed communities on the grid. I've prepared a report to the chancellor illustrating this option, and believe that this kind of auction will not only delay further the sale of our land, but give CDS even more of a reputation of greed. We are not a community here to make money, and i'm astounded to see a proposal like this on these boards, with this much of our land being abandoned.

I have advised the LRA that i will make a presentation regarding land sales at the meeting. I had hoped to have input from the chancellor before presenting the entire program, but will assure you i will not in any way support an auction with our current land prices as base.

I was given this job just two weeks ago. A lot of research has gone into the plan we will present. If you really just want to delay the whole thing until next term, please do.

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Arria Perreault
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Re: New Land Sale processes

Post by Arria Perreault »

I can maybe say why I prefer an auction instead a random drawing. In the random drawing process, it is not possible to take in account the reason why someone want a particular plot. The plot can be finally sold to the less interesting projet. An auction would give a chance to the potential purchasers to express their interest for a parcel. The goal is not to win more money, only to find the best way to sell the land when there are several
I have also though to keep the idea of the random drawing, if a delay of a week is given to the interested persons to negociate. If no solution is found, the random drawing can be done.

As I told in my post, I will support this process if it is a unique action in order to sell the parcels which are currently available. The Bill is only for the future actions of land selling.

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Re: New Land Sale processes

Post by Rose Springvale »

it sounds like favoritism to me, and since "projects" have never been a criteria for the sale of CDS land, completely changes the method by which we operate.

I've proposed the random drawing in an answer to the cries of foul from last summer when our waiting list was not considered to be sufficiently fair... i can get you that citation but not now. Random drawing is intended to do EXACTLY what you don't want it to do... and that is let everyone have a fair chance at all land, regardless of faction affiliation, friendship with the decision makers, or judgment by any set of avatars as to the quality of project.

Last edited by Rose Springvale on Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sonja Strom
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Re: New Land Sale processes

Post by Sonja Strom »

I would like to know who is to be making the random drawing, and how they would do it.

I am also interested to know if this method is intended for a one-time event or to be ongoing.

Personally I don't see any moral or marketing problems with having auctions. Linden Lab has ongoing land auctions, and I have not heard of any resistance to that structure in SL. For reference see: http://usd.auctions.secondlife.com

This discussion could be seen as holding up the sales process, but I don't remember being informed about the process before now. So, it seems to me like it is normal and could easily be expected.

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Re: New Land Sale processes

Post by Rose Springvale »

Thank you all for your input. Let me stress that the process outlined in this thread is ONLY to determine a fair way to sell land already repossessed by CDS. It has all been sold before. It is not being offered on a new system... we will sell it just the way land has always been sold in CDS. But it will be offered to everyone to have a chance to buy, instead of just the first person to notice it as yellow on the map, or the first person who put their name on the waiting list. Both of those have created very bad feelings in our community.

Should the need to choose arise, the plan is to ask members of the SC to do the drawing, or coin flipping, as the case may be, from identifiers, probably numgers, which will be blindly assigned so that no one doing the actual selection will have access to the identity of the avatar chosen.

Land sales in CDS have been on hold since the current administration was accused of "insiderism."http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2478 This process completely eliminates the concern.

Changing the way we sell CDS land... whether by auction to the highest bidder or amending land prices to reasonable levels is an action that must be presented to the RA. At present, we have a plan to put the land we own back into the market, and the RA will be presented the plan when we have the details worked out. THIS part is not a new process. No new prices are proposed, no new mechanisms. If the RA wants to adopt an auction system, please take it up. You will not get that proposal from me. What you will get is an analysis of land sales across the grid, a price comparison of our land to comparable estates (which will not include SL mainland auctions).

I've no idea why you think CDS land sales and linden lab auctions are comparable. Linden labs is in the business of making money off their sims. CDS is in the business of experimenting with democracy in virtual worlds. If people want to go into the for-profit sim sales business, CDS is not the place for it. Many of us have our own projects, for which we unapologetically do make money, or try to. I assume that is what Arosa is about Sonja. And SLNE, Ischia, B2b, etc. But nowhere in CDS laws, constitution or information do i see that CDS is in the business of land sales for profit. That's why many of us volunteer our time here, instead of running off to pad our own pockets.

I encourage you all to do your own research in preparation for the next phase, which unlike this phase, may actually have something controversial in it. I'd like for you to do some comparison of land, amenities, prices and tier of other sims that you feel are similar to CDS.

Finally, remember that the world is still in an economic crisis. There are a few people interested in buying our land, but what we have in backlog is nearly a full sim of sales. Every day we delay is a day when someone who might choose CDS as their home chooses someplace else instead. I've seen it happen a dozen times this term, and it will continue to happen until we address the real issues here.

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Timo Gufler
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Re: New Land Sale processes

Post by Timo Gufler »

I like the concept of random drawing, because it sets all land buyers behind the same starting line. It allows a person without knowledge, power or wealth to have a chance to buying land.

Sonja asked a good question. I think the random drawing should take place in presence of the buyers and the result of casting dice/coin/whatever should be visible to them. My suggestion is to use a simple LSL script as a dice, which should be a "glass-box" instead of typical "black-box", where the internal behavior is unknown to the user(s). In other words, I am talking about open-source dice here... ;)

Below is a simple script that can be used as a dice. When placed inside of the object, the script and the object should be made copyable and modifiable for the next owner, that should make it possible for anyone to analyze behavior of the dice (or ask opinion of his/her trusted friend with knowledge about scripting).

How do you feel about this?

Code: Select all

// Variables
integer gChannel = 6;
integer gSides = 6;

// Single state state-machine
default {
    // Dice initialization
    state_entry() {
        llWhisper(0, "The dice is cast when thouched. To change number of sides, please, say a number of sides in channel " + (string)gChannel + " (for example \"/" + (string)gChannel + " 12\").");
        llListen(gChannel, "", NULL_KEY, "");
    }

    // The casting logic
    touch_start(integer n) {
        integer value = 1 + (integer) llFrand(gSides);
        llSay(0, llKey2Name(llDetectedKey(0)) + " cast dice and got " + (string)value + ".");
    }

    // The command handler
    listen(integer channel, string name, key id, string message) {
        if (channel == gChannel) {
            integer value = (integer)message;
            if (value >= 2) {
                gSides = value;
                llSay(0, "" + llKey2Name(id) + " changed the dice to " 
                    + (string)gSides + "-sided.");
            } else {
                llInstantMessage(id, "The given value was invalid.");
            }
        }
    }

    // Rezzing handler    
    on_rez(integer n) {
        llResetScript();
    }     
}
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Sonja Strom
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Re: New Land Sale processes

Post by Sonja Strom »

Thank you Rose for answering my questions. I still feel a little bit confused about how permanent this sales process is intended to be, but maybe that's just me.

As for what you wrote here:

Rose Springvale wrote:

Many of us have our own projects, for which we unapologetically do make money, or try to. I assume that is what Arosa is about Sonja.

I can assure you Arosa is not in any way padding my pockets... :lol: In fact the exact opposite is the case. :P

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Re: New Land Sale processes

Post by Moon Adamant »

Hi guys!
Sorry for recent offness!

Here's my tuppence about this:

Seeing that CDS citizens will always have inside information about land selling in the CDS (when compared to the average SL user), I agree with the pre-offer of land to citizens. I am glad to see that the process prevents over-grabbing of land exceeding covenant directives, which was my major concern here.

As for the equanimity in decision to whom the land should go, I must agree that there is nothing that matches a random system. Since we are all of us committed citizens already, I don't think that the consideration of the comparative worth of projects hold - all projects are important. Also I wouldn't like to be in the position of having to judge in this, and I think nobody does.
Mind you, Arria's idea of having a week for parties to talk is interesting, since it would allow for projects to merge and develop. But this shouldn't delay purely residential or commercial plot purchases. Maybe we could work the two proposals like this: we already have a 7-day delay in the process for candidature. What if people would post their intention on buying plot P? That way, if A wants P, and B wants it too, they can meet during the 7 day and talk it over? Think on this like a mini-forum. It would actually be interesting to know what projects (if any) are being thought about. This becomes more difficult as our community grows, compared to the old days when you couldn't change a rug on your house that you'd have the whole CDS giving their opinion :D

Eudaimonia now!
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Re: New Land Sale processes

Post by Rose Springvale »

Thanks for your input, everyone. Perhaps as our backlog is eliminated, many of these ideas will make more sense. With over 20 parcels available, i can't help but think we have land to accomodate anyone who wants it.

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Re: New Land Sale processes

Post by Rose Springvale »

Sonja, the second paragraph of the original post answers your question about frequency.

The process will also be repeated on a monthly basis whenever CDS has more land in inventory.

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Re: New Land Sale processes

Post by Jamie Palisades »

Obviously, I support the random drawing system proposed by Rose at the beginning of this thread. I believe it will provide a fair method for us. Fairness to all is a key issue in any democratic government who wishes to grow, and keep its legitimacy.
* Please note, the 7 day advance notice rule gives insiders and outsiders an equal chance to obtain open parcels.
* Also, please note that the covenants of CDS still will apply: for example, someone who already owns the maximum number of lots in a sim will not be able to buy another parcel, in that sim, in a lottery.
* Rose's notices of our plans conform to the CDS law requirement that the RA is informed of any new land sale methods. These notices fulfill that duty. The RA is not required to act on this issue unless they wish to block our proposed plan.

I am considering one additional term to Rose's plan: whether to prohibit any person who is more than one month late in CDS rent from being able to join one of these lotteries for open land. Comments on this idea, and on the other details of the plan, are welcome.

This proposal solves the issue of how to fairly allocate parcels, when multiple persons may desire them. The question of price is a separate one. In a separate posting, I have proposed that we significantly change the price of CDS-re-sold land, to zero.

Regards JP

== My Second Life home is CDS. Retired after three terms
== as chancellor of the oldest self-governing sims in SL.
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