Commerce Zoning Commision, Nov 7, part 1

[Rose Springvale]

(This following information was handed out on notecard at the beginning of the meeting for discussion purposes.Transcript begins with timestamps)
Summary of Oct 10 meeting:
1.Vibrant marketplaces have shops where customers can actually buy things
2. political speech is important and we can;t/shouldn't/don't want to limit it.
3. Public information from the different factions is necessary and we are willing to financially support the distribution of political information
4. We want to see some of the public space already paid for by the community open to provide such information
5. Voluntary relocation of political headquarters from central business districts is encouraged, but not required. OR
6. All non retail use of property on the main marketplace areas of each sim will be forbidden, including all service related shops, offices and information centers other than for CDS.

[10:07] Sonja Strom: Hi Rose
[10:07] Rose Springvale: Hi sonja...
[10:07] Rose Springvale: hang on, while i send notices. i'm running slow today
[10:07] Rose Springvale: hi Stui
[10:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: do we hav a quorum *LOL* ?
[10:08] Rose Springvale: haven't sent notices yet. hang on
[10:08] Rose Springvale: sigh
[10:08] Sonja Strom: Hi Stui
[10:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ~ Time to River Dance ~
[10:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: hi Rosy and Sonja
[10:10] Rose Springvale: there..
[10:11] Rose Springvale: another day of things not working in SL
[10:11] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: where is the meeting?
[10:11] Rose Springvale: here
[10:11] Rose Springvale: upstais
[10:11] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: hello alexia
[10:11] Alexia Carnell: hi cleo
[10:11] Alexia Carnell: what's the subject
[10:12] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: commerce
[10:12] Rose Springvale: Hi Alexia, Cleo
[10:12] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: our topic
[10:12] Timo Gufler: Hi
[10:12] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: hello timo
[10:12] Rose Springvale: we are going to continue the discussion of what is allowed in our marketplaces
[10:12] Rose Springvale: Hi Timo
[10:12] Timo Gufler: Where is the meeting?
[10:12] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i cant find them
[10:12] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i see the dots and i hear them
[10:12] Sonja Strom: hehee
[10:12] Sonja Strom: me too
[10:12] Timo Gufler: follow me, please
[10:13] Sonja Strom: maybe they are gathering downstairs
[10:13] Timo Gufler: hello
[10:13] Sonja Strom: Hi Timo!
[10:13] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i feel like a newbie, where are you guys
[10:13] Rose Springvale: hi!
[10:13] Sonja Strom: Hi Alexia!
[10:13] Rose Springvale: upstairs Cleo
[10:13] Alexia Carnell: hi all
[10:14] Rose Springvale: We'll give people a couple of minutes, sorry i'm running late today
[10:14] Rose Springvale: weekends
[10:14] Sonja Strom: Hi CLEOPATRA
[10:14] Alexia Carnell shouts celooo!
[10:14] Alexia Carnell: *cleo
[10:14] CLEOPATRA Xigalia shouts: I am here!!!
[10:15] Rose Springvale: cleo, do you want atp?
[10:15] Alexia Carnell: lol
[10:15] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: sit
[10:15] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i found it am i allowed to sit here
[10:15] Rose Springvale: ah there you are!
[10:16] Rose Springvale: hi Wasp!
[10:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Any more for any more ?
[10:16] Rose Springvale: Does eveyrone here know everyone else?
[10:16] Rose Springvale: maybe we should take an opportunity to just introduce ourselves?
[10:16] CLEOPATRA Xigalia:
[10:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: **'`*`'** Stui **'`*`'**
[10:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'm
[10:17] Rose Springvale: lol
[10:17] Rose Springvale: and?
[10:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that's rosy
[10:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone:
[10:17] Rose Springvale: Stui is the chair and RA Liasion for this committee
[10:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if you don't know me, I'm not very formal
[10:17] Rose Springvale: representative for Al Andalus
[10:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and I change a lot
[10:17] Rose Springvale: and an artist, as well as professional retail designer
[10:18] Alexia Carnell: hi stui
[10:18] Rose Springvale: anything else you'd like the group to know Stui?
[10:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: thankyou Rosy
[10:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Evening Alexia
[10:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'm wonderful
[10:18] Rose Springvale: Sonja, you want to go next?
[10:18] Rose Springvale: lol
[10:18] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: dont tell them you are a smart aleck.
[10:18] Sonja Strom: Hi,
[10:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I don't have to Cleo... they will realise I'm clever all on their own as they are clever too
[10:19] Sonja Strom: I am the faction leader of the Democratic Pragmatist Union,
[10:19] Sonja Strom: with residence here in Neufreistadt.
[10:19] Sonja Strom: thanks
[10:19] Rose Springvale: and...
[10:19] Rose Springvale: Sonja is also a retailer on the Platz
[10:19] Sonja Strom: and, yes
[10:19] Sonja Strom: I have a shop on the Marktplatz,
[10:19] Rose Springvale: and has a service business off the platz, yes?
[10:20] Sonja Strom: and an office on Ursulaweg,
[10:20] Sonja Strom: across from the Biergarten
[10:20] Rose Springvale: thanks and .. the proprietor of the Arosa project
[10:20] Rose Springvale: hey calli
[10:20] Alexia Carnell: i see a sort of fog
[10:20] Sonja Strom: Yes
[10:20] Rose Springvale: we are doing brief intros
[10:20] Rose Springvale: so good you are here
[10:20] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ctrl atl - shift
[10:20] Sonja Strom: Hi Callipygian
[10:20] Callipygian Christensen: Hello everyone
[10:21] Rose Springvale: Timo ?
[10:21] Timo Gufler: oh sorry
[10:21] Timo Gufler: I have currently only small-scale business
[10:21] Timo Gufler: selling landscanners for estate managers in XstreetSL
[10:21] Rose Springvale: no shop in CDS?
[10:22] Timo Gufler: no shops
[10:22] Rose Springvale makes note to fix that...
[10:22] Rose Springvale: and your home in CDS is?
[10:22] Timo Gufler: sure, I live in the Monastery sim
[10:22] Rose Springvale: thanks
[10:22] Timo Gufler: I have been in CDS almost one year now
[10:22] Rose Springvale: calli?
[10:23] Rose Springvale: can come back to you if you like
[10:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: did everyone get a copy of the notecard ?
[10:23] Rose Springvale: smiles,Wasp?
[10:23] Alexia Carnell: yes
[10:23] Callipygian Christensen: sor..was looking at notecard lol
[10:23] Callipygian Christensen: sorry
[10:23] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yes, ty.. ( does anyone know how to get rid of fog on a mac, please tell alexia)
[10:23] Wasp Thor: Yes I just got it
[10:23] Rose Springvale: okay, go on
[10:24] Alexia Carnell: oh np
[10:24] Sonja Strom: Thanks Stui
[10:24] Rose Springvale: we are stalled.. who wants to go next?
[10:24] Callipygian Christensen: I will..this is intros?
[10:24] Alexia Carnell: i got a shop in LA
[10:25] Rose Springvale: yes, intros. thanks Alexia
[10:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I have a small shop in LA and have been seeking more commerical proplerty in CDS but cannot find it to buy yet
[10:25] Rose Springvale: thanks both of you
[10:26] Callipygian Christensen: I do SL photographic art, and while I don't yet have a gallery in CDS I shall soon, although I don't believe the area qualifies as a central marketplace
[10:26] Rose Springvale: you do have shops/galleries in many sims though, correct?
[10:26] Callipygian Christensen: But I am nosey and like to know about areas I am going to have a gallery so i come to meetings
[10:26] Callipygian Christensen: umm..7 I think
[10:26] Callipygian Christensen: I lose count
[10:26] Rose Springvale: thanks Calli, your input will be very helpful
[10:27] Rose Springvale: Wasp?
[10:27] Rose Springvale: smiles.
[10:27] Wasp Thor: you want a discription of me
[10:27] Rose Springvale: just a short intro so we all know a little about each other
[10:28] Wasp Thor: I'm spoiled , impatient , but basicly friendly
[10:28] Rose Springvale: smile
[10:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: like me
[10:28] Rose Springvale: she is a citizen of Al Andalus, and one of the AA rep
[10:28] Rose Springvale: and a merchant?
[10:29] Rose Springvale: do you have shops in SL wasp?
[10:29] Wasp Thor: I love Rose and AA
[10:29] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:29] Wasp Thor: no shop in aa or SL
[10:30] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ok has everyone had a chance to read through the notes from the previous meeting ?
[10:30] Rose Springvale: thanks everyone. I think everyone knows me... here as Deputy Chancellor in charge of land and new citizen development
[10:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone:
[10:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think we are reading them
[10:31] Rose Springvale: want to just go through them one by one and make sure they represent where we are?
[10:31] Rose Springvale: the last two are probably the only ones in issue
[10:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well the first one is obvious
[10:32] Rose Springvale: do you all agree?
[10:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: second one is a statement of purpose
[10:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yes
[10:32] Rose Springvale: 1.Vibrant marketplaces have shops where customers can actually buy things
[10:32] Rose Springvale: hang on stui
[10:33] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha
[10:33] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can't help it
[10:33] Rose Springvale: there are many marketplaces in SL that are full of people .. events, displays, etc
[10:33] Rose Springvale: and not shops
[10:33] Callipygian Christensen: are you wanting input on each pint?
[10:33] Rose Springvale: so this isnt' all that obvious
[10:33] Rose Springvale: just consensus if it exists
[10:33] Sonja Strom: I would say I don't remember all of the parts of Item 6 being brought up at the last meeting,
[10:33] Rose Springvale: i'm thinking of sims like New Babbage
[10:33] Sonja Strom: but it is okay with me for it to be like that.
[10:34] Sonja Strom: I also wonder how "the main marketplace areas of each sim" would be defined.
[10:34] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Sonja we will revisit the points of last meeting
[10:34] Rose Springvale: lets do them in order.. i would like the group to understand what it is saying when it agrees to these
[10:34] Rose Springvale: so everyone is in agreement athat we want shops that sell things?
[10:34] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the first point suggests points of ease of shopping
[10:35] Rose Springvale: on our plazas and central marketplaces?
[10:35] Callipygian Christensen: so 'can actually buy things' speaks only to 'most or all shops spaces are commercial, not other purposes' yes?
[10:35] Sonja Strom: My only concern has always been political party offices being directly on the Marktplatz in Neufreistadt - nothing more for me at all.
[10:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: sonja, arent they defined by the commerical rating in the covenants?
[10:35] Sonja Strom: ah, ok,
[10:35] Sonja Strom: then maybe it could say that.
[10:35] Sonja Strom: instead of "marketplace areas"
[10:35] Rose Springvale: i'm sorry, too many pronounds.. what is "it"
[10:35] Sonja Strom: maybe it could say "areas with a commercial rating in the covenant."
[10:36] Sonja Strom: I thought we were talking about the notecard.
[10:36] Sonja Strom: For me "it" is the notecard.
[10:36] Rose Springvale: yes, but we were on number 1 and then you wer taling about 6
[10:36] Rose Springvale: so i'm lost
[10:36] Sonja Strom: oh, okay, sorry
[10:36] Sonja Strom: I was talking about item 6
[10:36] Rose Springvale: okay, lets hold that
[10:36] Sonja Strom: we can go to item 1
[10:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: anyone with any comment related to statement 1 ?
[10:36] Rose Springvale: or we'll be all day
[10:37] Callipygian Christensen offers that one and 6 are related
[10:37] Rose Springvale: hopefully they all are
[10:37] Sonja Strom: I'm sorry, I misunderstood what we were doing.
[10:37] Rose Springvale: stui, i personally thing vibrant marketplaces are a mix of uses
[10:37] Rose Springvale: thnk*
[10:37] Rose Springvale: not just shops
[10:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well yes
[10:37] Rose Springvale: (being devils advocate for a moment
[10:38] StuiChicanne Darkstone: because one unit can bring people who will look at another unit
[10:38] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: but they do have to have enough actual shops to be a market place, and that is certain.
[10:38] Rose Springvale: From a sim standpoint.. anything that brings people to the sim makes me happy
[10:38] StuiChicanne Darkstone: a customer may buy incidentally
[10:38] Wasp Thor: why would someone pay for a shop space and sell nothing
[10:38] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I do have one thought personally on this point
[10:38] Rose Springvale: well, Wasp, to have a place to discuss ideas
[10:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if people will like to hear it
[10:39] Rose Springvale: or sell services. i do Stui
[10:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: to have land and be a citizen
[10:39] Wasp Thor: so it would be a political office
[10:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I know of people who have a store that is more a direction towards a mainstore
[10:39] Rose Springvale: that's true. we have that in our souk
[10:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: which is fine in one respect
[10:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: some people have business in sl, for fun, some for true RL profit, and these are very different things.
[10:40] Rose Springvale: so long as its not just an ad farm
[10:40] Wasp Thor: an LMan LM is a commercial use
[10:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but it does mean that people could in effect bypass the outlet to go to the main
[10:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: so reserving their choice until they have seen the full range
[10:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: meaning they buy elsewhere
[10:40] Rose Springvale: and that happens too. Especially in low prim shops
[10:41] Wasp Thor: but ..an LM takes you away from the marketplace
[10:41] Rose Springvale: so we could have shops that sell things but mostly just redirects what traffic we have
[10:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it's an important consideration
[10:41] Rose Springvale: Does anyone think that is the best use of the marketplaces?
[10:41] Rose Springvale: do we want to be a stop off or a destination?
[10:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: as this will impact upon the incidental purchase
[10:42] Alexia Carnell: lol i want my shop to be a destination
[10:42] Rose Springvale:
[10:42] Rose Springvale: alexia, i'll pick on you a minute if you don't mind
[10:42] Rose Springvale: We have for example in oktoberfest, very low prim stalls
[10:43] Alexia Carnell: wuz just jokin
[10:43] Rose Springvale: do you expect everyon who shops there to only buy from the stall, or maybe take your lm and come see your shop?
[10:43] ANCIENT LIFE november 09 whispers: Touch contents to turn pages, touch cover for menu ...
[10:43] Rose Springvale: i think your point is good!
[10:44] Sonja Strom: My only interest is one: political party offices being directly on the Marktplatz in Neufreistadt - and I don't even feel really strongly about that.
[10:44] Rose Springvale: anyway, not to belabor this, but its very risky for sims configured the way ours are
[10:44] Rose Springvale: Sonja, to be fari, you are only concerned aobut the Simplicity office i think, as it is the only one there
[10:44] Rose Springvale: the issue never came up when CSDF was there, or DPU
[10:44] Rose Springvale: lets go on
[10:44] Sonja Strom: Only because an agreement was made that all three parties would remove their offices,
[10:45] Rose Springvale: i haven't seen that agreement
[10:45] Sonja Strom: and the CSDF and DPU did.
[10:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Sonja we will get to this point
[10:45] Rose Springvale: and certainly the leaders of the Simplicity party didn't agree to it
[10:45] Sonja Strom: It was verbal, between you, Moon and I
[10:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but out of respect for all here who are here to discuss the commercial concerns
[10:45] Rose Springvale: i'm not an party rep, and am certain i didn't commit for them!
[10:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we must stay to the agenda as posted in the notecard
[10:45] Rose Springvale: thanks
[10:45] Sonja Strom: Then the CSDF removed its, the DPU removed its, and the SP office has never removed its.
[10:46] StuiChicanne Darkstone: this way we shall get to statement 6
[10:46] Sonja Strom: So now it has become about the SP office, and that is why.
[10:46] StuiChicanne Darkstone: where is Cindy's gavel ? she's so much better at this than me
[10:47] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ok any more comment on statement one ?
[10:47] Sonja Strom: But really, for me it is fine to have political party offices there....
[10:47] Rose Springvale: sighs
[10:47] Sonja Strom: I just think it could be good to have clarity about the future of it.
[10:48] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Sonja we have a purpose
[10:48] Sonja Strom: If political party offices are wanted there, then I am not against that at all.
[10:48] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and it is the whole sphere of commerce
[10:48] StuiChicanne Darkstone: not just the political concerns
[10:49] Rose Springvale: go on stui, i'm afk for a moment
[10:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I believe that we have concluded discussion on point 1 ?
[10:49] CLEOPATRA Xigalia nods
[10:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: point 2
[10:50] StuiChicanne Darkstone: anyone for discussion of point 2 ?
[10:50] StuiChicanne Darkstone: political speech is important and we can't shouldn't don't want to limit it
[10:50] Wasp Thor: I think everyone would agree with 2
[10:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I would too
[10:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: anyone say different ?
[10:51] Callipygian Christensen: agreed, and it belongs attached to one of the other points with either a 'therefore' or an 'however'
[10:51] Wasp Thor: that brings us back to political offices in the marketplace
[10:51] Sonja Strom: I agree with point 2, yes.
[10:52] StuiChicanne Darkstone: so no discussion to the contrary on point 2
[10:52] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i agree, and don't really understand why its in here..
[10:52] Wasp Thor: how about political offices inn the market place
[10:52] Wasp Thor: if you uphold feree speach
[10:52] Wasp Thor: free
[10:52] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Wasp we have to keep on the order of the meeting
[10:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: in the interests of fairness to all attending
[10:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: point 3
[10:53] Rose Springvale: she's right
[10:53] Wasp Thor: item 2 is basic to everthing else
[10:53] Rose Springvale: any limit you put on market place activity on political offices limits free speech
[10:53] Callipygian Christensen: I think 2 through6 are really one point, or could be combined to be one
[10:54] Rose Springvale: well, 5 and 6 are opposites
[10:54] Wasp Thor: acrually 2 and 3 say the same thing
[10:54] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: 2 3 and maybe 4
[10:54] Wasp Thor: yes
[10:54] Rose Springvale: except
[10:55] Rose Springvale: right now all political offices are private land
[10:55] Rose Springvale: someoen pays tier on them
[10:55] Callipygian Christensen: SInce political is important and to be encouraged, and since we want to have public land already supported financially available for this, an area adjoining, and with easy access to, the main marketplace will be available to all political parties for their use
[10:55] Rose Springvale: the office that sonja is objecting to is privately owned
[10:55] Rose Springvale: but where?
[10:55] Rose Springvale: and that means we are going to take productive land and use it
[10:56] Sonja Strom: I am not objectiong to one office, only wanting fairness.

[Rose Springvale]

[10:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: are we desirous of mixed use areas or do we find absolute zoning preferable ?
[10:56] Rose Springvale: but there is no restriction now sonja. your office changed because you chose to take the low rent deal
[10:56] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: why cant you designate one parcel that is for that and everyone who is a faction is then invited to put things there
[10:56] Rose Springvale: if you had other space on the platz, you could have had both
[10:57] Wasp Thor: so 5 and 6 are the only rea; points of contention
[10:57] Rose Springvale: because it restricts free speech
[10:57] Sonja Strom: I really do not want to restrict free speech.
[10:57] Sonja Strom: It is okay with me for the SP office to remain there.
[10:57] Rose Springvale: so... i think.. cutting to the chase... what the group wants is number 5
[10:57] Sonja Strom: I don't think any speech should be restricted.
[10:58] Rose Springvale: with perhaps an addition of number 4
[10:58] Wasp Thor: 5 is fair
[10:58] Sonja Strom: Yes, 5 is fine for me.
[10:58] Rose Springvale: so there is always SOMETHING people can see in world regardign factions
[10:58] Rose Springvale: or do we want to be aggressive
[10:58] Rose Springvale: and say. ONLY retail?
[10:58] Rose Springvale: so long as we dont' single out political speech, i think we are fine
[10:58] Wasp Thor: then you ban political offices
[10:58] Rose Springvale: but it means that the empy law offices
[10:59] Rose Springvale: the service offices
[10:59] Wasp Thor: yes
[10:59] Rose Springvale: the hmmm single vender spots?
[10:59] Callipygian Christensen: that would require a very broad definition of retail imo, and isn't really desirable
[10:59] Rose Springvale: all move
[10:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think that without some level of visual political reference
[10:59] Wasp Thor: banning anything is a slipery slope
[10:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we'd lose the chance of progressive recruitment to the group
[10:59] Rose Springvale: how do the rest of you feel?
[10:59] Sonja Strom: I agree with Wasp there.
[11:00] Wasp Thor: if you are for free speach
[11:00] Notary Desk whispers: Passed self test.
[11:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I did have one thought lately
[11:00] Sonja Strom: I am in favor of voluntarily working together to improve the look and feel of the commercial areas, including the NFS Marktplatz,
[11:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: a response that came from retail itself
[11:00] Sonja Strom: but I don't want to ban things or to stop free speech.
[11:01] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: could you make an incetive for what you want instead of banning what you dont want
[11:02] StuiChicanne Darkstone: within the company I work for... with the current economic climate... they came up with a plan to communicate offers and relevant customer information in a new way
[11:02] Rose Springvale: how?
[11:02] StuiChicanne Darkstone: permanent plastics
[11:02] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the same principle could be used here
[11:02] StuiChicanne Darkstone: prims that are placed
[11:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that at key times can be used as a political message board
[11:03] Rose Springvale: hmm
[11:03] CLEOPATRA Xigalia listens
[11:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and in other times can be used to communicate another message or image
[11:03] Rose Springvale: that may be going beyond the scope of this commision
[11:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: in effect
[11:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: to function in and out of promotion
[11:04] Rose Springvale: smiles
[11:04] Wasp Thor: a bilboard like a road advert
[11:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: which could solve concerns of reduced political presence
[11:04] Rose Springvale: stui, put together a proposal .. but take a look at the new information kiosks
[11:05] Rose Springvale: i think any changes like that should be considered after we've gone throught the upcoming election
[11:05] Rose Springvale: because its very late to put new limits on factions now
[11:05] Rose Springvale: and there are constitutional issues
[11:05] Wasp Thor: yes
[11:06] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it's just a consideration
[11:06] Wasp Thor: very much so
[11:06] Wasp Thor: it's a good idea
[11:06] Rose Springvale: its a good idea. but i think the next commission should be.. how to improve retain and communication!
[11:06] Rose Springvale: retail
[11:06] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: May i ask exactly what is the goal of this commission? I am sorry.
[11:07] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I didnt go last time, I am confused.
[11:07] Rose Springvale: it was convened to consider a proposal sonja made to limit political offices on the platz
[11:07] Rose Springvale: because it is an issue that does or should effect all our marketplaces, we have elected to consider the broader issue
[11:07] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ?? i thought it was the commerce commsion.
[11:08] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ok
[11:08] Rose Springvale: zoning
[11:08] Rose Springvale: commerce zoning
[11:08] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i see
[11:08] Sonja Strom: Yes, in talking with Jamie about the SP office I thought he wanted a change in zoning for the Platz,
[11:08] Rose Springvale: yes, i think he does
[11:08] Sonja Strom: so I requested a conversation about that in the RA,
[11:09] Sonja Strom: and that lead to this Commission meeting.
[11:09] Rose Springvale: but i don't hear support for a broad change to only retail, am i wrong?
[11:09] Sonja Strom: I don't need that, no.
[11:09] Rose Springvale: cleo? alexia? timo?
[11:09] Rose Springvale: wasp you are no to that, correct?
[11:09] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I support the change
[11:10] Wasp Thor: yes
[11:10] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I think Alexia left
[11:10] Rose Springvale: to only retail?
[11:10] Rose Springvale: oh, lol sorry
[11:10] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yes of course,but I am a retailer, looking for commercial land.
[11:10] Wasp Thor: I think retail is a good zoning issue
[11:11] Rose Springvale: that's what we are really discussing. do we want to make that recommendation or not
[11:11] Wasp Thor: it is very much a part of zoning in RL
[11:11] Timo Gufler: I would like to have the platz only for commerce
[11:11] Rose Springvale: that all our marketplaces be designated retail only
[11:11] Timo Gufler: after all it's a market place
[11:11] Rose Springvale: and retail defined as selling goods, not services
[11:11] Rose Springvale: not ngo
[11:11] Rose Springvale: not politics
[11:11] Wasp Thor: then do you want to zone out all non retail?
[11:11] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we can specify more detail in the zoning.. have
[11:12] Sonja Strom: I could support that, so long as there is a clear definition of what a marketplace is.
[11:12] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Commerical/ retail
[11:12] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: commercial/ service
[11:12] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: commercial/ political
[11:12] Rose Springvale: the simpler we can keep it the better
[11:12] Rose Springvale: because as someone who sells land, it is VERY confusing here
[11:12] Rose Springvale: to newcomers
[11:12] Sonja Strom: The only place I am personally really talking about is the NFS Marktplatz zoning.
[11:13] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: that would simlify it i think to specify in the covenant what the land is for
[11:13] Rose Springvale: i can't support anything that applies to one sim.. i'm trying to get the covenants unified so we can be one estate
[11:13] Wasp Thor: we are in fact defining the covenant
[11:13] Timo Gufler: but still it's called market place
[11:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it makes more sense to have universal covenant
[11:13] Timo Gufler: and that signals about different function
[11:13] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i think the only answer is to specify the three types of "commerical" lands in the covenant
[11:14] Rose Springvale: Cleo. lets assume that we'd make the platz all retail
[11:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: as a merged area we have a large population across multiple sims after all
[11:14] Rose Springvale: are you saying you'd limit other places to other limits? even if we have no limit now?
[11:14] Rose Springvale: for example the side streets in NFS
[11:15] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yes, rose, i just think in light of CDS, we have to more clearly define the Commercial property .. retail, service resdiential and have a mix .. if we want to survive.. then.. just make sure its flexible somewhat, and enforced.
[11:15] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: not residential, i meant political... :(9
[11:16] Rose Springvale: okay, i am going to suggest we take that up at our next meeting... because i think we will get sloppy now.. we are past the one hour mark
[11:16] Rose Springvale: and my AA people know i hate meetings that try to push that
[11:16] Rose Springvale: lets post this transcript to the forum, and seek more input
[11:16] Sonja Strom: I am not in favor of limiting free speech in the commercial areas.
[11:16] Rose Springvale: and reconvene in two weeks?
[11:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: 2 weeks suits me best
[11:17] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so AA runs cds now?
[11:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think
[11:17] Rose Springvale: ?
[11:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: no Cleo AA does not run CDS
[11:17] Rose Springvale: what do you mean by that Cleo?
[11:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: wouldn't it be rather premature a statement for you to make wihtout adequate observation ?
[11:18] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I was just responding to your statement about "your AA people" dont like when you push meetings about that subject.
[11:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I haven't quite seen you politically active enough to remark that way
[11:18] Rose Springvale: historical reference
[11:18] Rose Springvale: okay folks
[11:18] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I am confused about that, i didnt know they are your people
[11:18] Rose Springvale: this is my point. we aren't on topoic anymore
[11:18] CLEOPATRA Xigalia:
[11:18] Rose Springvale: be happy to explain my reference, but this is all on the record, not appropo
[11:19] Rose Springvale: my point is that one hour meetings are productive, beyond that we lose focus
[11:19] Rose Springvale: as we are here
[11:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Cleopatra - I think you quite possibly seek an argument and thi is at best a debate
[11:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: aat the point to which it becomes an argument I would close the meeting myself
[11:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I propose we adjourn
[11:20] Wasp Thor: I second
[11:20] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: third
[11:20] Timo Gufler: Me too
(meeting adjourned)

[Cindy Ecksol]

I find it fascinating to note that thus far the entire focus of the Commerce Commission is on whether or not politics should be permitted in "commercial" zones, and (in particular) on the Marktplatz. It makes me wonder whether this is really the most pressing question we have vis a vis commerce in CDS or whether there are, perhaps, more interesting issues to explore.

For instance: is it finally time to allow commercial rentals in CDS? Actually we already have them in LA and AA -- why not in CN and NFS? Ditto for direct TP. Or how about: is there some way to deal with the fact that most shops in NFS and CN have so few prims available that it's almost not worth paying the tier? Or maybe: should we create a designated "performance space" in our commercial areas and encourage performances that develop a following in that place at particular times? More avs attracted to the area ought to equal more sales, or maybe more willingness on the part of high-quality content providers to create a store that can act as a magnet for the rest of the area. Or maybe we should create a "public art in commercial space" program where each month we challenge an artist to create a "not possible in RL" work of art and invite people to come in and comment on it? That might even develop into some kind of a monthly panel discussion or interview about art in SL moderated by one of our own. How about a bookstore hosting authors to talk about their works or an in-world book club?

Help me out here, I'm stretching...but somewhere out there beyond my own grasp there might be the germ of a really good idea. There are some high-quality creative thinkers attending commerce commission meetings -- maybe you all can make some sense of my stream of consciousness blather....

Cindy

[Rose Springvale]

This is NOT the Commerce Commission. This is a task force charged with considering only the zoning in our commercial spaces. That is all we are doing.