RA Meeting 8 Nov 2009: Transcript

[Cindy Ecksol]

Cindy Ecksol: everyone please touch the recorder to consent to recording. and please take agenda and other notecards from the urn under the table
Cindy Ecksol: ok, we have a quorum, let's get started
Jimmie McMahn: Good Morning Chancellor
Lilith Ivory: Hi Jamie
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, if it is worse, they're definitely not aware
Lilith Ivory: lol
Cindy Ecksol: any changes to the agenda?
Wasp Thor: Hello, Micael
Arria Perreault: Hi Jamie
Micael Khandr: Hi Wasp
Cindy Ecksol presses her coffee while everyone says hi
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Cindy Ecksol: can I get a motino to approve the agenda?
Carolyn Saarinen: Move to approve
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds
Wasp Thor: I second
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor?
Carolyn Saarinen: aye
Micael Khandr: Aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Wasp Thor: Aye
Soro Dagostino: Discussion?
Arria Perreault: aye
Cindy Ecksol: Soro, do you have something to discuss?
Joaquin Gustav: aye
Soro Dagostino: Point of order -- any proposals to be in the Agenda should be posted to Legislative Discussions.
Soro Dagostino: In the Forums.
Cindy Ecksol: good point
Jamie Palisades smiles
Soro Dagostino: done
Cindy Ecksol: we have not done that so far in this term, but I see no reason why we should not.
Cindy Ecksol: I will note that all of the proposals being discussed today have been discussed in the forums for at least two weeks
Cindy Ecksol: albeit not in "Legislative Discussion"
Cindy Ecksol: Soro, do you wish to amend today's agenda on that basis?
Soro Dagostino: It was a Point of Order.
Cindy Ecksol: ok, thank you.
Soro Dagostino: I have made my comment.
Cindy Ecksol: motion on th efloor to approve the agenda: any opposed?
Cindy Ecksol: ok, thank you.
Cindy Ecksol: Next meeting November 22, 0900
Cindy Ecksol: today pip, naftali, and robert have requested 7 day vote
Cindy Ecksol: micael may need to leave, so he has requested 7 day if he misses anything
Sonja Strom: I will not be able to attend the next meeting on the 22nd, and request a 7 day vote for it.
Cindy Ecksol: moving on....
Micael Khandr: Thank you
Cindy Ecksol: reports....Jamie?
Cindy Ecksol notes sonja's request
Jamie Palisades: Good morning all - ready?
Sonja Strom: yes
Jamie Palisades: OK. Report text here: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2606
Cindy Ecksol reminds RA members to use the question queue
Jamie Palisades: Some of the items we will hit in the agenda later today, so I will save those for later.
Jamie Palisades: I will mention a few high points, then ask Rose for her additions, then see if we have questions.
Jamie Palisades: From that linked report: item 1, land price -- later in this meeting.
Jamie Palisades: item 2, land sales - they are going on and mosat due to Rose's hard work we've already managed to add some new citizens
Jamie Palisades: More on that in a moment.
Jamie Palisades: Please note, we are using the notice-and-random drawing method disvcussed a few weeks ago. So far, it seems to work fine.,
Jamie Palisades: items 3 and 4, please also note -- after the RA solves our price debate today we'll put the rest on sale at whatever price y'all tell us we can use.
Micael Khandr: Y'all--you in Texas?
Jamie Palisades: Needless to say, there may be some adjustment issues -- but that will come up in your agenda item later today.
Carolyn Saarinen: hanging around with Rose!
Jamie Palisades: At times, MIcael but I try to minimize it.
Jamie Palisades: item 5 - regional commissions - please see the post linked form my report.
Jamie Palisades: *frmo
Sonja Strom: Hi Yogeswari!
Jamie Palisades: Oh well, no one cliamed I can type Several of you are, as you know, being put to work during November
Jamie Palisades: this also comes up in the agenda today.
Jamie Palisades: item 6 - Linden "partnership" -- we have applied. Per our chat.,
Jamie Palisades: But I still thkn it;s primarily about land moving and adjacent estates.
Jamie Palisades: Like the Blake Sea - SLNE deal.
Jamie Palisades: so we still ought to think about whether THAT is strategically attractive to us.
Jamie Palisades: there are some HUGE issues there
Jamie Palisades: .. attaching to the mainland?
Jamie Palisades: .. attaching to Caledon?
Jamie Palisades: etc etc
Jamie Palisades: so - big issue - but not this week's. People should start to mull it over, though.
Jamie Palisades: finally
Jamie Palisades: item 7, please note, i just have listed the things that I expoect to bring to the RA between now and the end of term.
Jamie Palisades: (a) do we add a sim?
Jamie Palisades: (b) Do we get rid of the silly citizen-groups law that Gwyn and I have been sneering at for years?
Jamie Palisades: (c) we have another election to survive .. real soon.
Jamie Palisades: and apropos of that
Jamie Palisades: let me just mention for those who do not read group messages
Jamie Palisades: Congratulations to the new dean of the CDS SC, Aliasi Stonebender, selected this week.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ooh wow
Gwyneth Llewelyn: congrats indeed
Carolyn Saarinen: lawks1
Yogeswari Padar applauds
Cindy Ecksol grouses as she notes spilled coffee
Jamie Palisades: I'd like to suggest that the RA adopt a resolution thanking Claude, the outgoing dean, for his longtime service - both in that capacity and also as LRA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hear hear)
Jamie Palisades: Thanks. Let me defer to os who has somne other - good - details about land activity, and whatever else she might like to mention.
Jamie Palisades: *Rose
Jamie Palisades: sorry
Jamie Palisades: Then we can ask for questions.
Rose Springvale: oh
Rose Springvale: hey
Rose Springvale: i wasn't prepared, but glad to speak
Rose Springvale: first welcoem to Jmmie, our newest CDS citizen.. nice to see you here Jimmie!
Cindy Ecksol:
Jimmie McMahn: :] Glad to be here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: welcome
Rose Springvale: We've added also Lostie86 Sharpshire in AA... who wants to translate our tour into Arabic for us
Cindy Ecksol: nice!
Delia Lake: excellent
Rose Springvale: And as most of you know, amgadsef Anton, who brought his coptic church to the Sacromonte sim
Joaquin Gustav: welcome al
Carolyn Saarinen: nope missed that
Rose Springvale: Thanks to Marino Nuvolari for working with us to move his project to the Almunecar Airspace
Rose Springvale: lol
Sonja Strom: me too
Rose Springvale: Keilia Forager is also finally a citizen of her own right...
Rose Springvale: have i forgotten anyone?
Rose Springvale: lots of movement of citizens within the sims.. which is great to see
Lilith Ivory: Hubby is a real citizen now also
Jamie Palisades grins - right - Cam bought
Rose Springvale: CAm Holiday too!
Rose Springvale: oh yes!
Rose Springvale: sorry chat lag
Rose Springvale: and we hae a few more we'll close shortly we'lltell you about next time
Jamie Palisades: (Lilith keeps saying she will make an honest man of him .. guess that means citizen )
Lilith Ivory: hehe
Rose Springvale: i think that's all i have on this issue
Arria Perreault: May I a question?
Cindy Ecksol: yes...ifi rose is finished
Rose Springvale looks at Cindy... idk!
Arria Perreault: thank you! I am a bit lost with numbers now. Would it be possible to have an approximation about the total amount of citizen for example at the end of october
Jamie Palisades: OK, Arria, may we huddle on that in IM and answer a bit later in the meeting please?
Cindy Ecksol: np
Cindy Ecksol: all right....
Cindy Ecksol: IIb is stui's commerce commission report, but he is having trouble with tp
Cindy Ecksol: so Jamie, if you wouldn't mind doing the regional commissions status update?
Cindy Ecksol fights with chat lag....
Jamie Palisades: OK. No prob.
Carolyn Saarinen: gravitiational flux between crown and slippers
Sonja Strom: lol
Jamie Palisades: Hah - so GFBCAS replaces PEBKAC?
Jamie Palisades: Ok, for the regional programming --
Cindy Ecksol looks confused....
Jamie Palisades: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... 930#p13930
Gwyneth Llewelyn *is* confused
Jamie Palisades: We have three themed regions
Carolyn Saarinen: don't worry Cindy
Jamie Palisades: as yo knoew from the budget, we have money
Jamie Palisades: we have nice people ( mostly in this room) who have agreed to moderate the open chats
Rose Springvale: (tp's are down for everyone i guess)
Jamie Palisades: so now what we need is meetings
Jamie Palisades: as ytou can see from the post, i would like each of the regiosn to meet during the current calendar month
Cindy Ecksol: wow, seems so ORGANIZED!!! And people assigned to moderate and everything!
Jamie Palisades: those of you -- arria, micael, sonja, pip, caro -- who have kindly agreed to moderate will call and chair those open meetings, which have loose groundruels as posted, and Rose & I will try to attend each one
Jamie Palisades: *ground rules. Holy moley, the l a a a a g
StuiChicanne Darkstone shouts: HELLO
Jamie Palisades: Wherever Stui is, I bet his tail is twitching in slow motion
Rose Springvale: i think the sim needs to be restarted... been bad for a while
Carolyn Saarinen: everybody be quiet
StuiChicanne Darkstone shouts: I'm in SYRUP !
Callipygian Christensen shouts: he's in syrup with me!
Jamie Palisades: a are we all, buddy -- you just LIKE it more OK, ahem.
Carolyn Saarinen: sssh! they'll hear us!
Jamie Palisades: Cindy, membe sof the RA, the bottom line on the regional commissions is:
Jamie Palisades: meetings this month with your help.
Jamie Palisades: and I need one more co-moderator for SOnja for the Alpine region
Jamie Palisades: done
StuiChicanne Darkstone: the ghost of Christmas yet to come floats in silently
Cindy Ecksol: hey, that's pretty bottom-line
Cindy Ecksol: thanks jamie! any questions for jamie on commissions?
Jamie Palisades: (silently my sculpted prim fanny)
StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha always wondered about that Jamie
Jamie Palisades: a base rumo, not at all tre -- Jamie sits down FAST
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Carolyn Saarinen drops soap at Jamies feet
Cindy Ecksol: ok, stui, no wthat you're here, without objection why don't you give us your report on Commerce Commission?
Caribou Coffee whispers: Mmmmm ... a nice hot cup of coffee.
**** Here the sim crashed and we resumed the meeting in Al Andalus ****
Connected
Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/Al%20Andalu ... /62/225/33
Callipygian Christensen shouts: the sea has recalimed it! who forgot to appease the gods???
Callipygian Christensen: morning Cindy
Cindy Ecksol: morning Calli!
Callipygian Christensen: not enough sacrifices made this week methinks
Cindy Ecksol: we''re headed for the library to continue the RA meeting -- CN appears to have vanished -)
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Cindy Ecksol: must be true...
Callipygian Christensen: ah..ok..Ill head there..CN was in bad shape when I got there before
Rose Springvale: should be room for the RA at the table
Lilith Ivory: I hate it to get moved somewhere else
Rose Springvale: and i'll put up benches for spectators
Belladonna Serrta: hello
Belladonna Serrta: is this ur place?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: DAMN SL
Rose Springvale: RA should fit at the table, the rest of us will use benches
Rose Springvale: i can rez as many as we need
Cindy Ecksol: thanks, rose....
Joaquin Gustav: ty rose
Joaquin Gustav: do we need the record machine?
Rose Springvale: need more chairs
Rose Springvale: ?
Wasp Thor: Yay Rose
Rose Springvale: we can take a transcript
Cindy Ecksol: Joa, we'll just have to make do with chat transcript
Cindy Ecksol: I am recording, would appreciate it someone else would too.
Cindy Ecksol: just in case...
Rose Springvale: i always have a record cindy
Soro Dagostino: Got chat running.
Soro Dagostino: Out of CDS
StuiChicanne Darkstone: anyone want a poppy while you wait ?
Rose Springvale: smiles
Can't rez object 'Question Queue V 1.1' at { 214.628, 162.073, 50.9887 } on parcel 'El Tesoro Libreria de la Alhambra' in region Al Garnata because the owner of this land does not allow it. Use the land tool to see land ownership.
Carolyn Saarinen: got mine thanks
StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha I'm just about sitting on Joaquin's head
StuiChicanne Darkstone: good job I'm a cat
Question Queue V 1.1: *** Question Queue, a Jim Gustafson Product ***
Question Queue V 1.1: If people click on the object, the name will appear in your chat
Question Queue V 1.1: you can get to the next user with /100 next
Question Queue V 1.1: you can reset the queue with /100 reset
Question Queue V 1.1: say /100 rotation on/off to enable/disable rotation
Question Queue V 1.1: say /100 blink on/off to enable/disable blinking
Wasp Thor: I was just about to get the poppy when we crashed
Arria Perreault: the poppy?
Rose Springvale: we are in the process of reconstruction and redesign of this building, for the benefit of anyone who is annoyed (as i am) by the texture flicker lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn was wondering about the insane texture flickering...
Wasp Thor: Stui poppy
Rose Springvale: yes, well
Lilith Ivory: lol I just wanted to mention it
Carolyn Saarinen: Looks good anyway frankly
Rose Springvale: its not MY work
Gwyneth Llewelyn complains about the frozen anims too, as always
Lilith Ivory: I thought I would be going to crash again lol
Cindy Ecksol: ok....
Cindy Ecksol: let's see....
Cindy Ecksol: can we come to order again? I think we have a quorum
Cindy Ecksol: (amazingly!)
Guardian Angel v2.0: Guardian Angel v2.0 [script:Detector] Script run-time error
Guardian Angel v2.0: Stack-Heap Collision
Guardian Angel v2.0: Guardian Angel v2.0 [script:Display] Script run-time error
Guardian Angel v2.0: Stack-Heap Collision
Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles
Rose Springvale: hi Sylvia!
Soro Dagostino: What else would we do on a Sunday Morning in November
Cindy Ecksol: ok, stui -- I think you were about to tell us about the commerce commission
Cindy Ecksol: you have the floor -- take it!
Cindy Ecksol: stui, you there??
Carolyn Saarinen hits a disco beat for stui
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'm up here
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'm floating
Cindy Ecksol: how about a commerce commssion report??
StuiChicanne Darkstone: if the floor disappears
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'm ready for it
Cindy Ecksol: we're all waiting with bated breath....
StuiChicanne Darkstone: ok
StuiChicanne Darkstone: apologies for the broken up report
Cindy Ecksol waves at justice
StuiChicanne Darkstone: strangle a Linden
Carolyn Saarinen: words to live by
Cindy Ecksol: c'mon stui, we've got a lot of stuff still to talk about....
StuiChicanne Darkstone: ok meeting yesterday - attendance good - lots of discussion - transcript on the forums... I ask that everyone be patient with us at the next meeting which is scheduled for 2 weeks time
StuiChicanne Darkstone: unless I am still in paris (could be the week after)
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'll keep you posted
Cindy Ecksol: done stui?
Cindy Ecksol: any questinos for stui?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: unless you want to hear about my hair
Cindy Ecksol: *questions
Rose Springvale: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2604
Rose Springvale: that's the transcript
StuiChicanne Darkstone: thankyou Rosy
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I was looking for the link *LOL*
Rose Springvale:
Cindy Ecksol: ok....next up is CDS-owned land pricing -- jamie's proposal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks for doing the *resume* of the conclusions at the very stop Very useful
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry, Cindy)
Cindy Ecksol: everyone have the notecard?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *top
Gwyneth Llewelyn confirms she has the notecard
Cindy Ecksol: jamie is still not back online -- rose can you fill in for him?
Rose Springvale: i'll set out a notecard giver .. he's back now
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Question Queue V 1.1: Gwyneth Llewelyn has a question
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Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Gwyneth Llewelyn
Cindy Ecksol: gwyn?

(continued)

[Cindy Ecksol]

(continued)

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, just a simple clarification, perhaps it's a quite obvious one.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *request for clarification, that is.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Under this suggested Land Pricing Act,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: parcels are set for sale *immediately* (for L$0) as soon as the CDS repossesses it, right?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's the spirit of the law, i.e. what is intended by it? Am I corrrect?
StuiChicanne Darkstone gave you Poppy Lapel Pin.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (that's it)
Jamie Palisades smiles, waves.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (wb Jamie, just in time!)
Cindy Ecksol: I just caught jamie up in im -- let's give him a sec to catch his breath
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, of course!!
Jamie Palisades: CN just restarted
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yay
Jamie Palisades: it took a bit of doing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, jamie!
Jamie Palisades: let's stay here though
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and seconds that suggestion
Jamie Palisades: OK< sorry, I herad you are discussing the zero price proposal, but wasn't sure if I am getting questions about it
Cindy Ecksol: Jamie, woul dyou like to start by talking about it first?
Cindy Ecksol: them we'll take questions?
Jamie Palisades: sure but only briefly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, thatmight clarify my single question about it.
Cindy Ecksol: kk
Jamie Palisades: 1. CDS has LOLNG had a statutory price
Jamie Palisades: *long
Jamie Palisades: we sell 'em at the beginning for $X Lindens
Jamie Palisades: and then after that
Jamie Palisades: the owners sell at whatever price they like
Jamie Palisades: but
Jamie Palisades: if CDS gets it back
Jamie Palisades: WE sell it at the original price
Jamie Palisades: and the original prices are, to use a colloquailism, wack
Sylvia Tinkel:
Jamie Palisades: CN was radically overpriced for exmaple
Jamie Palisades: because THEN (years ago) there was pent up demand due to a full-up NFS
Jamie Palisades: then the only other sim we had
Jamie Palisades: AND the landmarket in SL wasn;t buggered
Jamie Palisades: (as it is now)
Jamie Palisades: AND other things were different
Jamie Palisades: so
Jamie Palisades: NOW
Carolyn Saarinen: Lemme hear ya say "tahnk you Lindes"
Jamie Palisades: large estates all over SL are selling for L$0
Jamie Palisades: Caro
Jamie Palisades: because they know that what really matters to their budget
Jamie Palisades: is the monthly rent
Jamie Palisades: what WE are seeing
Jamie Palisades: is more vacancies than usual
Carolyn Saarinen: or even "Thank you Lindens" - funnier when one is coherent hmm?
Jamie Palisades: and it;s my suggestion that this is because we are comparatively overpriced
Jamie Palisades: and I proposed last meetign to solve the problem by an experiment
Jamie Palisades: which is to drop purchase price to zero, and collect only tier
Jamie Palisades: on repossessed lots
Carolyn Saarinen: And what matters to US is also the monthly rent...
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Question Queue V 1.1: Sylvia Tinkel has a question
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Jamie Palisades: which is, as it happens, exactly what our budget projects. Exactly, Caro.
Jamie Palisades: Vacancies could kill us
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Question Queue V 1.1: Arria Perreault has a question
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Jamie Palisades: even though so far we are doing far better than most
Jamie Palisades: (and on that note, go look at how much is for sale in, for example, Azure Islands)
Carolyn Saarinen: Cos our sims are gorgeous
Jamie Palisades: (not going to mention any of our own citizens' projects )
Jamie Palisades: (but I could)
Jamie Palisades: or look at Caledon
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Question Queue V 1.1: Gwyneth Llewelyn has a question
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Jamie Palisades: Des hides the vacancies
Jamie Palisades: but they're all over
Jamie Palisades: OK. link to the actual "bill" proposal here:
Jamie Palisades: and please note, for the RA's convenience - it is important to say that this plan is NOT the same as Arria's auction idea
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (it's theopposite!)
Jamie Palisades: in fact, if you pass hers, mine doesn't work., and vice versa
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Cindy Ecksol notes that we'll get to Arria's proposal next....
Soro Dagostino: Move approval
Jamie Palisades: right,m just mentoiong that so people see everything on the tabnle
Jamie Palisades: link to legislation draft here --> http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... t=0#p13927
Arria Perreault: I have also understood that yours, Jamie, is provisory, until the end of the term
Jamie Palisades: done, thanks
Cindy Ecksol notes that soro is out of order...questions in the queue
Rose Springvale: lol
Cindy Ecksol: gwyn, you first.....
Cindy Ecksol: since we asked you to wait earlier
StuiChicanne Darkstone: !
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... right... well, two things then. I had ANOTHER comment, which I will only make when my time in the quaue comes next,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the first question was simple: will the repossessed land be announced for sale L$0 *immediately* after it is repossessed? The proposed bill doesn't suggest/propose a timeline for doing so
Gwyneth Llewelyn: My request for clarification was just that — will it be listed for L$0 *as soon as it is repossessd*?
Cindy Ecksol: jamie?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I'll leave the rest of my comments after my turn comes again in the queue, thanks )
Jamie Palisades: ok. I could answre that but it was Rose's plan so maybe I will let her speak first if she likes
Rose Springvale: smiles
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Please
Rose Springvale: first
Rose Springvale: remember how we get 'reposessed land
Rose Springvale: generally its either a) been for sale privately
Rose Springvale: or b) been vacant a while
Rose Springvale: if we offer all cds land in inventory at the beginning of the month, that should handle any pent up desire for the land.. and i'd ask for direction on the price of the land then
Rose Springvale: but the point is to keep it productive, not get windfalls
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* — ok, so I'd suggest that gets just slightly amended to include "At the beginning of each month, Any parcel of land that is re-sold by CDS, after CDS repossesses it, will be sold for a purchase price of $0." (or words to that effect)
Soro Dagostino: Point of Order
Rose Springvale:
Cindy Ecksol: soro?
Cindy Ecksol: we will need a motion for this at the appropriate time.....
Soro Dagostino: Madame chair -- there is nothing before the body -- you need a motion
Cindy Ecksol: thank you.
Jamie Palisades: so, I wrote a motion as posted. anyone want to move it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We surely don't need a motion to discuss something that IS on the agenda to be discussed?...
Jamie Palisades: I;m just yer humble nonvoting servant
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We *did* approve teh agenda, didn't we?
Cindy Ecksol: no, need a motion to approve and then to amend -)
Soro Dagostino: TY
Cindy Ecksol: would someone like to move jamie's proposal as stated on the card ?
Arria Perreault: we are on questions and clarification now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Point of order (two can play this game too ). We're at the discussiong stage!!!!
Jamie Palisades sits back - hey if no one makes a motion thi scan be a much shorter meeting. It;'s a sunny day outside where I am
Cindy Ecksol: gwyn, we can move and then discuss in more detail, ok?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And while discussin, we can certainly make suggestions =)
Soro Dagostino: No discussion is in order -- without a motion
Cindy Ecksol bangs gavel
Cindy Ecksol: soro, would you like to move jamie's proposal?
Soro Dagostino: I did
Cindy Ecksol: ok, do we have a second?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Come on guys. III b. CDS-owned land pricing (0955-1015) . What's that? Isn't it a point to discuss on the agenda? Or just pretty words on a notecard for us to watch and drool?
Sylvia Tinkel: ??
Cindy Ecksol: (please)
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I second !
Rose Springvale: yay!
Carolyn Saarinen: I'll second if it moves us on
Cindy Ecksol: thank you stui
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Sylvia Tinkel
Jamie Palisades smiles, patiently points to the text of the now seconded-motion here - http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... t=0#p13927
Cindy Ecksol: I believe sylvia has th efloor -- a question sylvia?
Carolyn Saarinen: but don't now nr=eed motion to amend?
Sylvia Tinkel: my question was about the motion you just moved on
Jamie Palisades: should I answer Gwyn's question, or did we eradicate it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
Sylvia Tinkel: but i am only a guest
Sylvia Tinkel: I just wanted to point out the flaw which i think concerns Gwyn
Sylvia Tinkel: that to have the land available at zero price invites a problem
Carolyn Saarinen: guests can speak Sylvia
Sylvia Tinkel: anyone can just walk up and get it
Jamie Palisades: (IN short, yes, Gwyn, that's a perfectly fine clariifcation, and consistent with Rose's one-a-month-up-or-out sales plan)
Jamie Palisades smiles and pokes queue
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Question Queue V 1.1: Jamie Palisades has a question
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Sylvia Tinkel: you probably need a bit of social engineering there to stop someone taking over all the land
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Question Queue V 1.1: Patroklus Murakami has a question
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Sylvia Tinkel: that's it
Sylvia Tinkel: done
Cindy Ecksol: thanks sylvia
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Arria Perreault
Cindy Ecksol: Arria?
Carolyn Saarinen: I thought Pat was going to take over all the land
Arria Perreault: I have a comment and a technical question
Cindy Ecksol: go ahead arria
Arria Perreault: my comment: I am not in favour of a price of 0 L$ because it means that what we get has no value. Poeple who get it can abandon it very easely. I think also that CDS offers more than land, but also services and a great environment
Cindy Ecksol: finished arria?
Arria Perreault: Finally we have a team who manages this land. So it cannot not be free. It can be cheap.
Arria Perreault: not yet finished
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Question Queue V 1.1: Jimmie McMahn has a question
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Arria Perreault: My question: what is repossed land. In the former list, I have seen parcels of the new sim Monastery and newly redesign parcels from the former parcel of the Monastery
Arria Perreault: The sales of all these parcels were dedicated to the financing of Monastery sim
Jamie Palisades raises hand - it's a question, Ccindy, may I answer it?
Arria Perreault: will be the remainings of the New sim out of the next list?
Arria Perreault: if your proposal is accepted
Arria Perreault: done
Cindy Ecksol: yes, jamie, please....
Arria Perreault: same for AM
Jamie Palisades: To Arria: I think any land that we sell for the FIRST time is outside this bill. So when we set the 3 empty parcels on the monastery for sale, there's already a price for us to use. (this evening.) If it does not sell for a while, we'll come back & suggest a price drop and see my answer to Sylvia. ... To Sylvia: Good question. We talked about that two weeks ago when this first came up. I have in the draft that's posted suggested that we collect two months rent up front to mnake vapid speculation a little harder.d
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Gwyneth Llewelyn
Jamie Palisades: ... Arria, the Monastery sim land right NOW is exactly like when we opened LA -- a new one-time sale
Cindy Ecksol: Gwyn, you had another question or comment?
Jamie Palisades: done
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Question Queue V 1.1: Arria Perreault has a question
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Cindy Ecksol: (sorry jamie)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: For the record, I dislike this excessive bureaucracy with your infinite approvals and amendments. I know that some among us love Robert's Rules. Unfortunately for you guys, we work under http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=281 . Please note 2. B. [...] "Each item on the agenda shall be allocated a time for debate by the LRA. If the LRA believes that a proposed piece of legislation shall not be controversial, it shall be allocated not less than 10 minutes for debate. If the LRA believes that a proposed piece of legislation may be controversial, it shall be allocated not less than 15 minutes for debate. " So. With due respect. Let's drop this nonsense of approving an agenda, having a point on the agenda, and interrupting the discussion with silly motions to approve to discuss something which is under discussion anyway, with apparently the purpose of "moving things on". The LRA, under OUR rules (and NOT Robert's Rules which do NOT apply to the RA!), can stop the discussion anyway if the time limit has pass
Sylvia Tinkel: I would still argue you will eventually need a way of "picking" people but that answer satisfies me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ed. And THEN, *after* the discussion, we CAN move to approve a point under discussion, under the provisions of 2. C, which *clearly* defines how we should proceed *after* the discussion period. Please. We happen to have a rather good set of rules for all of this, please don't continue to invent new rules on the spur of the moment Or, well, propose a change of those rules if you dislike them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And now to the point in question...
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As a matter of principle,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the CSDF always stood for private property, a free market,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the notion that citizens should have a right to consider their property valuable.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (e.g. remember the eminent domain issues of the past)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now I perfectly understand that "ideology" sometimes suffers when confronted with the "reality", e.g., it's hard to sell land in SL these days.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Going from "valuable" to "zero" seems, to me, too drastical
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Specially because someone might wish to remain in the CDS,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the parcel just next door gets "abandoned"
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and suddenly everybody knows it'll cost just L$0
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All of a sudden,

(continued)

[Cindy Ecksol]

(continued)

Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Question Queue V 1.1: Wasp Thor has a question
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Gwyneth Llewelyn: your own parcel is worth little
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, I'm not saying that we ought to be a community working just for the benefit of enriching citizens with prospective profitable land sales
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Question Queue V 1.1: Soro Dagostino has a question
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (again, that would be going the other extreme )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And also, I'm definitely aware that it's FAR worse to have a plot EMPTY to yours, which is unsaleable,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: than just having the notion that land has, ultimately, "no value" in the CDS
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Question Queue V 1.1: Rose Springvale has a question
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Still, I would like to consider this in more detail. We're effectively abolishing the "value" of land in the CDS with this bill,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and this changes things — quite a lot
Gwyneth Llewelyn: even with a sunset clause
Jamie Palisades leans back, raises eyebrow, looking for an action item in there somewhere
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Jamie Palisades
Cindy Ecksol: thanks gwyn
Cindy Ecksol: Jamie, did you have another comment?
Jamie Palisades: heh heh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No action, Jamie. Just a request that this be given a little more thought. Are we really wanting to enter a phase of the CDS where land has zero value? The RA can certainly vote on that, if they think this new model benefits the overall citizens more.
Jamie Palisades: me? shy lil me?
Carolyn Saarinen: Nothing on which you have to pay tier is of "no value"
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thats all.
Jamie Palisades chuckles,. Election season started? Does the distinguished Senator from the I-am-the-SC-all-by-myself faction still have those "return to democracy" signs handy? ... SUBSTANTIVELY, I didn't hear any *legislative* proposals under all that politics, Gwyn .. except maybe "this is not my idea so let's not do it". .. as for me, I raised my hand in queue to answer Sylvia, so nothing further, Cindy
Cindy Ecksol: thanks, jamie
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Patroklus Murakami
Jamie Palisades: and Caro, yes, that's what we figured from an accounting point of view too. A future rental stream = book value.
Cindy Ecksol: Pat, you had a comment?
Patroklus Murakami: thx cindy
Soro Dagostino: ??
Soro Dagostino: Where am I?
Jamie Palisades: Al Andalus
Soro Dagostino: On the Q?
Sylvia Tinkel: isn't land essentially free in nature anyway?
Cindy Ecksol: (next I think soro)
Patroklus Murakami: first of all, can i say how disappointed i am by the political response from our esteemed chancellor
Carolyn Saarinen: I'm coming over as a real partisan here and I'm sort of in the middle actually;/
Jamie Palisades: Soro, there's text floating by the big blue "?"
Patroklus Murakami: which failed to answer any of the key points of the question put
Patroklus Murakami: it's funny to be on the left and defending the value of property but, hey ho, this is SL!
Patroklus Murakami: i understand how this makes sense from the Government's perspective, but what of the citizens? if the govnt sells land for nothing it devalues all our land. now, my holdings are pretty modest, just a small lot in NFS. But when i had more I was able to get back some of my investment when i came to sell it. now that will be impossible because the govnt will be giving it away. so, will the govnt compensate current land owners for their loss?
Jamie Palisades: (I looked for questions, in there, I swear, Pat = can you restate them so I can find' em?)
Patroklus Murakami: there is a problem with going from 'expensive' to 'free' all of a sudden and an impact on current landowners
Carolyn Saarinen: CDS policy doesn't dictate land value, the market under LL policy does that.
Patroklus Murakami: so my questions are: have you thought about that? what is your response? will there be compensation. thank you
Cindy Ecksol: jamie? aersponse?
Cindy Ecksol: anyone home?
Rose Springvale: lol
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Jimmie McMahn
Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
Cindy Ecksol: Yikes, I was reading the queue upside down.....
Carolyn Saarinen:
Rose Springvale: maybe take all the questions and then get a response
Cindy Ecksol: Jimmie....did you have a question?
Jimmie McMahn: For times sake I will keep my comment short..
Cindy Ecksol: (then arria, wasp, soro, rose
Jimmie McMahn: I understand why Jamie wants to set land price at 0L..but I fear that will open the door to an abundance of problems
Jimmie McMahn: I would reccomend lowering purchase prices..but I fear 0L would be to drastic
Cindy Ecksol: (please say "thank you" or "done" when ou are finished)
Jimmie McMahn: thank you
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Arria Perreault
Cindy Ecksol: arria?
Patroklus Murakami apologises for spamming the chat channel!
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Wasp Thor
Carolyn Saarinen throws a paper plane at Arrria
Cindy Ecksol: ok, running short on time....
Cindy Ecksol: wasp, you had a comment?
Wasp Thor: With all due respect to our feelings.....Linden Labs is printing millions on the money exchange to stay in business...the reality is that they can not sell land..How can we?.....Thank you
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Arria is typing, please be patient)
Arria Perreault: first Jamie did not answer totally my question. The three remaining parcels were quickly blocked to the sale in JUly. I have paid the fees until october without the chance to see them sold. And a remark: we will become renters with this policy of 0 L$ price. Poeple will stay less time by us. It will be complicate to manage
Cindy Ecksol: ok, waiting for arria....
Carolyn Saarinen: sorry ;(
Arria Perreault: especially with our political agenda. We need long-term citizen.
Arria Perreault: done
Cindy Ecksol: than you.
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Soro Dagostino
Cindy Ecksol: soro?
Cindy Ecksol: (worry to make you wait so long)
Soro Dagostino: Yield to Rose
Cindy Ecksol: rose?
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Rose Springvale
Rose Springvale: thanks
Rose Springvale: bear with me while i cut and paste
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Question Queue V 1.1: Sylvia Tinkel has a question
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Rose Springvale: i've said it many times... i'll repeat it. The true value in CDS is in the community and while our land is beautiful, so are many other sims. In this proposal, we have not said that CDS land has 0 value, but we can all agree that some land is always going to be more desirable that other parcels.
Rose Springvale: There is no change to private sales. (If citizens fear that their neighbors land will end up in the 0L slush pile, they should work to find buyers and maintain the value.) We are talking about land that is in inventory, and has been in inventory, and that we've "shown" many many times. About 15 parcels. Without exception, we get told... espcially in Colonia nova... wow.. that is just too high.
Rose Springvale: And comparing even to our own sims, it is!
COST of sims in SL 1.55/m 6.67/p
Tier: .0197 .00454
CDS
Cost 6.96/m-17.68/m 38.49/p-77.78/p
tier .77/m–3.13/m 17.7/p-13.8/p
AA cost 9.67/m(original #'s, not used since) 42.31/p tier
Rose Springvale: take a moment to look at the numbers... and remember.. we have already been paid back for all land
Rose Springvale: done
Cindy Ecksol: thanks
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Sylvia Tinkel
Rose Springvale: 2.33/m
10.18/p(AA tier numbers)
Soro Dagostino: Yield to Sylvia
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Question Queue V 1.1: Sonja Strom has a question
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Cindy Ecksol: sylvia? then sonja and then I'm going to ask for a motion to approve
Patroklus Murakami: what is /m and /p? per metre squared mainland and private?
Sylvia Tinkel: I just have a counter-point to Aria's thing about the value being zero, becoming renters, and the political agenda
Rose Springvale: per meter and per prim
Sylvia Tinkel: (devil's advocate)
Patroklus Murakami: ty rose
Rose Springvale: no. all in our sims
Sylvia Tinkel: the land being zero can be advertised as a *good* thing
Sylvia Tinkel: land is free in the CDS sort of thing
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Question Queue V 1.1: Gwyneth Llewelyn has a question
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Sylvia Tinkel: and I think it makes assumptions about commitment based on ownership that aren't necessarily true
Sylvia Tinkel: lastly i think Pat is right about compensation for current owners
Sylvia Tinkel: done
Sylvia Tinkel: * the need for compensation
Cindy Ecksol: thanks
Sylvia Tinkel: done
Cindy Ecksol: sonja?
Sylvia Tinkel:
Sonja Strom: Several people have expressed to me that they don't know exactly what land is for sale in the CDS,
Sonja Strom: and are not sure how to find out without asking other people.
Sonja Strom: Is all the land that is for sale showing up in one public place? Like for example as yellow areas on the SL map?
Sonja Strom: Thanks
Soro Dagostino: Call the Question
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Question Queue V 1.1: Arria Perreault has a question
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Cindy Ecksol: one moment, soro...
Cindy Ecksol: jamie or rose, can you answer Sonja please?
Rose Springvale: yields to jamie
Rose Springvale: hmmm
Rose Springvale: well
Rose Springvale: okay
You decline Guthries Folk Club, Kissena Park (29, 189, 21) from A group member named Dottie Iceberg.
Rose Springvale: the previous RA approved a land sales act that would allow us to turn off the yellow map sales
Rose Springvale: we have spent many hours getting that put together.
Rose Springvale: in the meantime
Rose Springvale: all inquiries for land have been forwarded to the exec staff
Rose Springvale: and we have handled them
Rose Springvale: now
Rose Springvale: sonja, if you have not been forwarding inquiries, i can't fix that
Rose Springvale: but
Rose Springvale: as you all recall
Rose Springvale: the summer brought our land process to a halt
Rose Springvale: because of conflict which accused us of favoritism
Rose Springvale: so we came up with this plan. No, all cds land is not set for yellow map sale
Rose Springvale: we were under the impression that the RA did not want to have our sims look like a "fire sale"
Rose Springvale: and that is why they appoved the change
Rose Springvale: but
Rose Springvale: as you can see
Rose Springvale: we have many new citizens in the term...
Rose Springvale: so hopefully we are meeting theire needs. And
Rose Springvale: there is always some land "yellow mapped"
Rose Springvale: also, we want to make sure that buyesr understand
Rose Springvale: that cds isn't .. just prettier mainland
Rose Springvale: so we want to have a personal contact
Rose Springvale: done
Sonja Strom: I don't want anybody to be left with the impression I have not forwarded inquiries. I have always done whatever I could to help anybody who asked me for help.
Sonja Strom: done
Cindy Ecksol: thanks, rose, sonja
Cindy Ecksol: ok....
Cindy Ecksol: we have a motion on the floor -- jamie's original proposal.
Cindy Ecksol: and we are out of time.
Jamie Palisades listens, nods
Cindy Ecksol: and I think that there are many who are still not comfortable with voting "for" OR "against" the proposal.
Gwyneth Llewelyn moves to extend the meeting OR postpone
Rose Springvale: sighhh
Cindy Ecksol: what I'd like to suggest is that we table this discussion and resume nxt meeting
Jamie Palisades kof kofs <postponement motion is privileged>
Jamie Palisades:
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds that, if everybody is unwilling to continue discussing it now
StuiChicanne Darkstone: can't we for once try something new ?
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Suggest it, Stui
Cindy Ecksol: well, I need SOME kind of a motion...and second
StuiChicanne Darkstone: are we incapable of taking risks ?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: at this time
StuiChicanne Darkstone: it is the best time to try something new
Arria Perreault: we need time to think ....
Cindy Ecksol: either to approve the motion on the floor or to postpone or to extend todays' meeting
Jamie Palisades: Stui: the executive? No. The RA - well, you tell me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let's move to postpone
StuiChicanne Darkstone: when the economic slump is stagnating the SL economy
Rose Springvale: wasn't the question called?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *let *ME
Soro Dagostino: Yes
Cindy Ecksol is totally confused....
StuiChicanne Darkstone: we would be fools not to try something new and different
Arria Perreault: I second Gwyn's proposition to postpone
Jamie Palisades: yah, can you guys vote on the postponement?
Cindy Ecksol bangs gavel......
Cindy Ecksol: thank you arria.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have a motion and a second to postpone
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor to postpone?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Arria Perreault: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: nay
Soro Dagostino: If your asking for the nays?
Carolyn Saarinen: aye
Cindy Ecksol: all opposed?
Soro Dagostino: Nay
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I don't wish to postpone
Jamie Palisades: /so you got 4 to 2 and whoever didn't vote
Cindy Ecksol: four in favor, two opposed, motion carries
Jamie Palisades: wasp, cindy don;t vote?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Wasp is typing
Jamie Palisades grins, shrugs, raises hand for when this is over
Wasp Thor: Aye if it helps
Cindy Ecksol: sorry...I vote Aye
Carolyn Saarinen: I'd like a decision too Stui but we ain't gonna get one today
Rose Springvale: sigh
Cindy Ecksol: that makes 5.
Rose Springvale: okay. well.
Cindy Ecksol: two opposed....wasp?
Wasp Thor: I voted Aye a moment ago
Rose Springvale: to postponing?
Cindy Ecksol: thanks!
Cindy Ecksol: ok.....
Cindy Ecksol: meeting SUSPENDED....we will continue with same agenda next time.