RA Meeting 6 December 2009: Transcript

[Cindy Ecksol]

Micael Khandr: Hi Arria
Arria Perreault: Hi Justice
Cindy Ecksol: hi arria, justice
Justice Soothsayer: Hi all
Micael Khandr: Hi Justice
Cindy Ecksol: and gwyn too
Micael Khandr: Hi Gwyn
Arria Perreault: Hi Pat
Patroklus Murakami: howdy all
Arria Perreault: Hi Gwyn
Micael Khandr: Hi Pat
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello all!
Cindy Ecksol: please touch the recorder to consent to recording. and the urn under the table contains agenda, etc.
Arria Perreault has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Cindy Ecksol: "amphora"
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Lilith Ivory: Hi there
Cindy Ecksol: hey, lil!
Micael Khandr: Hi Lillith
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi ))
Pip Torok: back
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb :9
Pip Torok: hi Gwyn, arria
Lilith Ivory: anybody want me to rez my "grid crash protection box"?
Jamie Palisades: haha
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Jamie Palisades: hullo all
Cindy Ecksol: is it guaranteed?
Soro Dagostino: Hello all.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
Lilith Ivory: hm think it might be a Linden item, so....
Jamie Palisades: actually, when used as instructed, yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn wonderd how THAT works...
Cindy Ecksol: maybe we can get Gwyn to get it certified by the lindens....
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol !
Arria Perreault: Hi Lilith
Lilith Ivory: Hi Arria
Lilith Ivory: Hi Jamie
Pip Torok: hi lilith, jamie, soro pat
Arria Perreault: Hi Jamie
Soro Dagostino has indicated consent to be recorded.
Lilith Ivory: cute hat Jamie
Jamie Palisades grins, waves
Jamie Palisades: well, not exactly a hat
Lilith Ivory: hehe
Cindy Ecksol: ok, recorder is on, so please touch to indicate consent to record
Arria Perreault: Hi Soro
Carolyn Saarinen has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: more of a 'fascinator'
Lilith Ivory: do you know what wearing antlers means in Germany?
Cindy Ecksol: and agenda, etc. is in the amphora as usual
Cindy Ecksol wait to hear the answer to this one....
Pip Torok: no Lilith, tell us
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Lilith Ivory: it means you should watch careful what your wife is doing when you are not at home
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Lilith Ivory: she might be untrue
Cindy Ecksol: whoo hoo!!!!!
Lilith Ivory: hehe
Pip Torok: oh ...
Cindy Ecksol: same here, actually -- idomatic
Jamie Palisades smiles. "Wearing horns", yes
Soro Dagostino: Hello Pip
Lilith Ivory: ah I see
Patroklus Murakami: o.k.
Jamie Palisades: but those do not have holiday lights
Carolyn Saarinen: Cuckold
Cindy Ecksol whistles the fiddle tune "Who's been here since I've been gone?"
Lilith Ivory: lol no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (in Portugal, we don't have many antler-bearing animals, so we use horns too )
Jamie Palisades: .. well unles your spouse is sleeping with Santa
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Lilith Ivory: hehehe
Cindy Ecksol whistles "I saw Mommy kissing Santa Claus"
Lilith Ivory giggles
Pip Torok: <thinks> must be sons/daughters of Santa around!
Arria Perreault: Hi Stui
Micael Khandr: Hi Stui
Pip Torok: hi Stui!
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Evening All !
Cindy Ecksol: hey, stui!
StuiChicanne Darkstone has indicated consent to be recorded.
Lilith Ivory: hi Stui
Jamie Palisades: Isn't that a club, pip?
Cindy Ecksol: find an interesting perch and indicate consent, please
Jamie Palisades: no wait
Pip Torok: hi Calli, Keila
Jamie Palisades: that's the Illegitimate Daughters of ELVIS, never mind
Jamie Palisades: dd 16
Keila Forager: Hi Pip
Jamie Palisades: dd 0
Jamie Palisades: dd 24
Jamie Palisades: dd 16
Jamie Palisades: dd 32
Jamie Palisades: dd 64
Cindy Ecksol: ?
Jamie Palisades: dd 96
Jamie Palisades: dd 128
Jamie Palisades: dd 200
Jamie Palisades: dd 256
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie loves to spam us
Jamie Palisades: dd 300
Cindy Ecksol: yikes, jamie is counting!!!
Jamie Palisades: sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ?
Micael Khandr: I didn't know we had that many dds
Jamie Palisades: bad script setting
Callipygian Christensen: hi Pip, everyone
Cindy Ecksol: ok, I think we have a quorum, let's get started.
Arria Perreault: Hi Keila
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don't even know what a dd is
Keila Forager: Hi Arria
Arria Perreault: Hi Callipygian
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, Ms LRA ? I'll hush now if we're in session
Cindy Ecksol: everyone have the agenda? any changes?
Pip Torok: not me ...
StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I have a Christmas song for the agenda
StuiChicanne Darkstone: to set the mood
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Cindy Ecksol: any opposed to Stui starting us off with a song?
Micael Khandr: Does it matter?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: definitely not
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, I'm definitely not opposed...
Cindy Ecksol: aw, I thought YOU were going to sing, stui!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi Santa! (I mean Justice!)
Justice Soothsayer: Ho.
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
StuiChicanne Darkstone: my voice wouldn't be very jolly
Cindy Ecksol: all right, can I get a motion to approve the agenda?
Gwyneth Llewelyn moves to approve the agenda.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I found Cindy a Song too
Carolyn Saarinen: seconded
Cindy Ecksol: thanks.
Pip Torok: copy of agenda someone?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: to play on her autoharp
StuiChicanne Darkstone: in the urn
Cindy Ecksol: in the amphora pip...
Pip Torok: tks
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: with the ashes of Scrooge
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'm in favour
Carolyn Saarinen: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye ?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
Arria Perreault: aye
Micael Khandr: aye
Cindy Ecksol: ok, great.
Cindy Ecksol: next meeting: 20 december
Cindy Ecksol: question is what time we should plan
Cindy Ecksol: we changed this meeting because ther eare some who can never make the 9am time
StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I might be en route to my stable by then
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let's her suggestions! I'm very likely able to be around from 6 AM SLT upwards
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *hear
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am sure I'm working next sunday
Cindy Ecksol: no, that's two sundays from now stui
Pip Torok: noon SLT suits me fine
StuiChicanne Darkstone: removing the dust attractions
Soro Dagostino: Not a good time for me.
Cindy Ecksol: I am available either at 9 or noon
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I know I'm working some sunday to take down garlands and sequins and baubles
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, me too.
Micael Khandr: Me too--9 or noon
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and to hide Christmas trees
Lilith Ivory giggles
Cindy Ecksol: that would be maybe after christmas, stui?
Cindy Ecksol: unless you're planning to be scrooge?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: no
StuiChicanne Darkstone: before
StuiChicanne Darkstone: once they have made their money
Micael Khandr: anal-compulsive?
Arria Perreault: 9 PM is ok
StuiChicanne Darkstone: they want the trees and the rest to go away
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
Cindy Ecksol: no, arria...9am...not pm
Cindy Ecksol: 9am or 12pm
Cindy Ecksol: or something in between
Soro Dagostino: 9am is my preference.
Micael Khandr: 10:30?
Arria Perreault: 9 am or 12pm are both ok for me
Cindy Ecksol: soro, does that work for you?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm ok with 10:30 AM SLT too.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and apparently the kids nativity costume market in England is now worth up to £150 per costume *LOL*
Soro Dagostino: (am please
Pip Torok: either works for me
Soro Dagostino: 9*
Micael Khandr: Go for 9
Jamie Palisades: (for a bedsheet and sandals, Stui? I am in the wrong business then)
Cindy Ecksol: ok, sounds like 9am.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'll try to be at the meeting
StuiChicanne Darkstone: but I may be at ye olde hole of poop
Micael Khandr: poop?
Cindy Ecksol: I believe Rob has problems with that time which is why he hasn't been here much, but seems like the rest of us are ok with that.
Cindy Ecksol: so next meeting 20 Dec at 9am
Soro Dagostino: Yay!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
Lilith Ivory: Hi Rose
Cindy Ecksol: 7 day votes today: naftali and sonja
StuiChicanne Darkstone: it's not polite to say the hit and miss at RA
Pip Torok: hi Rose
Rose Springvale: hi all
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Rosy !
Keila Forager: Hi Rose
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Don't forget to tap my seat
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
Pip Torok: 7-day vote Naftali
Cindy Ecksol: moving on....jamie, you have a report for us?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: agendas are in the urn with scrooge
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and the Christmas Spirit
notetaker 2.0.1: Jamie Palisades has not indicated consent yet.
notetaker 2.0.1: Lilith Ivory has not indicated consent yet.
notetaker 2.0.1: Micael Khandr has not indicated consent yet.
notetaker 2.0.1: Pip Torok has not indicated consent yet.
notetaker 2.0.1: Keila Forager has not indicated consent yet.
Jamie Palisades: I do, smile
notetaker 2.0.1: Tor Karlsvalt has not indicated consent yet.
Cindy Ecksol: (and please touch the recorder if you have not yet)
notetaker 2.0.1: Callipygian Christensen has not indicated consent yet.
notetaker 2.0.1: Check completed.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: (my seat)
notetaker 2.0.1: notetaker 2.0.1 [script:notetaker 2.0.1] Script run-time error
notetaker 2.0.1: Stack-Heap Collision
Jamie Palisades: ok
Jamie Palisades: right, chancellor's report
Jamie Palisades: 1. Fun events today - please stick arouind after RA, for the DJ on the Neuifreistadt Platz and the kickoff of ski season. See "Eose's group announcement, and generally, the DS Calendar (see kiosks) and Events Forum board here: http://forums.slcds.info/viewforum.php?f=5 More planned for the winter holidays.
Jamie Palisades: 2. It's snowing Please fix your trees. There is a more complex weather plan for Al Andalus sims. I will ask Rose to talk about that in a moment.
Jamie Palisades: 3. I had this idea about a constitutional amendment We'll possibly talk about that later today.
Jamie Palisades chuckles
Jamie Palisades: 4. We should have an update on implementations, or feasibility, on the various recommendation sof the regional cultural commissions, within the next week. Also on the "Events" board.
Jamie Palisades: 5. The four chief open commercial parcels of land in Colonia Nova have been listed for bid, per our laws. See http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2634 I will keep you posted on the outcomes.
Jamie Palisades: .. There's a two week period for bidders to make themselves known for the 6-months-of-half-price-rent deal.
Jamie Palisades: 6. Also on land, most other open parcels in CDS owned by the government are open for claiming at L$0, but at full-price rent, as posted and group-notified by Rose. As the cooks say, come 'n get it.
Jamie Palisades: ...
Jamie Palisades: I have a few other "consultation" items
Jamie Palisades: which are in the forum of open questions to the group
Jamie Palisades: but that's it for declaratie stuff. so lety me let ose add anything she has -- including but maybe not only on the AA weather concept
Rose Springvale: Thanks Jamie
Jamie Palisades: *rose, sorry typo as always
Rose Springvale: I'm sorry that things are not farther along than they are for the holidays...
Rose Springvale: Al Andalus has not had snow yet, as there was some disagreement on whether it SHOULD snow
Rose Springvale: we've done some research and determined that in RL granada, indeed there is snow, albeit brief
Micael Khandr: I moved there for the warmth . . .
Rose Springvale: so we will try to follow the rl model and have a shortened period of winter weather, closer to the christmans/new year holidays
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Marino said today
Rose Springvale: he's in barcelona though
Micael Khandr: [Does Palm Springs exist in SL?]
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Question Queue V 1.1: Arria Perreault has a question
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Rose Springvale: If the roman sims cultural commission meets, it would be nice to have some help bringing them into the spirit...
Rose Springvale: specifically we've turned in a saturnalia event to Winter fair, would love help making it happen
Rose Springvale: other than that, i think its in the notices?
Arria Perreault: I have got already some inputs. We try to meet soon.
Jamie Palisades: i think so
Rose Springvale: remember you need to notice it out 1 week Arria
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Arria Perreault
Jamie Palisades: Arria (and Pip), if we can help, let us know please.
Pip Torok: thanks Jamie
Arria Perreault: yes
Jamie Palisades: (and I will have a few more short items after Qs)
Cindy Ecksol: questions for jamie?
Arria Perreault: I have
Cindy Ecksol: arria, you have the floor
Arria Perreault: about land sale action
Arria Perreault: first, I have noticed that the last available parcel of the Monastery sim is in the list. This is new land. Should it be out of the list?
Rose Springvale: arria
Rose Springvale: it is listed as such, no discount
Jamie Palisades: hmmmm - i think it;s for sale at the old price, not the zero price, no?
Rose Springvale: if you read the text
Jamie Palisades: which is as we all disvcused a few meetings ago
Arria Perreault: Second, will this action have an interference with the citizen census of the 12 december?
Jamie Palisades: still, a good thing for advertising to mention it.
Jamie Palisades: Sorry, on that second one? How so?
Arria Perreault: yes, new land should be sold at normal price
Jamie Palisades: ok, we agree on #1 then. On #2 ..
Jamie Palisades: are you asking how new landowners will be counted as voters?
Arria Perreault: Nobody can get one of this land before the 12 december?
Jamie Palisades: :/ well
Rose Springvale: what is december 12?
Jamie Palisades: let's see is that the 28-days-before-the election datye?
Arria Perreault: the date of the census
Jamie Palisades: (the day by which one must be a citizen to vote)
Jamie Palisades: Arria, assuming that it is (which sounds right but I have not checked the calendar) ...
Jamie Palisades: (and that's for the SC to tell us)
Jamie Palisades: .. then not really. For 3 reasons
Arria Perreault: it has influence on the number of the seats at the RA and the eligible factions, if the Constitution is not modified until that date
Jamie Palisades: (a) COMMERC IAL land is only available after the 19th
Jamie Palisades: (b) any PRIVATE sales can hapen at any time, and our PUBLIC sales are constaineed by our rules, which require some notice period
Jamie Palisades: and most importantly
Jamie Palisades: (c) Our rule on voting allows a thousanbd rediculous loopholes for group membership
Jamie Palisades: so anyone who tried to sneka in woudl easier do so, land or no land
Jamie Palisades: done Rose, did I miss anything?
Jamie Palisades: *sneak
Rose Springvale: i don't think so
Arria Perreault: (c) Our rule on voting allows a thousanbd rediculous loopholes for group membership: can you explane better?
Jamie Palisades smiles
Jamie Palisades: The law lets people become CDS citizens by joining a group when the group owns CDS land
Jamie Palisades: I think that is a bad law
Jamie Palisades: too easy to abuse
Jamie Palisades: but it is out law, and like most of them, predates me ask an oldtimer
Arria Perreault: I though it was not paossible
Arria Perreault: possible*
Jamie Palisades: anyone else? CIndy, I may not be up to the task of justifying an ancient and absurd rule
Arria Perreault: does it means that all members of the coptic church are citizen and not only the landowner?
Jamie Palisades smiles. Ask the SC
Arria Perreault: (just ann example)
Jamie Palisades: But i *thikn* they woudl need to CLAIM to be, and tell us, at a minimum, and be in the same group
Jamie Palisades smiles
Jamie Palisades: Maybe I should mention our friend Kamiliah?
Rose Springvale: maybe
Rose Springvale:
Patroklus Murakami: i could explain some of the motivation for that law and it's implications if you like. (i hate it myself btw)
Jamie Palisades: Let me wait for Pat
Jamie Palisades: Suffice to say
Cindy Ecksol: go ahead pat
Jamie Palisades: Caledon's thousand-member group also has a member who owns CDS land
Rose Springvale: in the group name
Patroklus Murakami: well, it was well meaning the idea was to provide a way for couples and groups to own land and still have citizenship
Patroklus Murakami: some thought it was unfair that couples had to each own land separately to be citizens
Jamie Palisades: I suppose I should make a disclosure
Cindy Ecksol smiles when thinking how Des wold love to know that he's just conquered CDS once and for all
Jamie Palisades: I'll wait my turn though
StuiChicanne Darkstone: then it could in theory be limited to couples
StuiChicanne Darkstone: surely
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
Patroklus Murakami: so the law says you can be a citizen by owning land as a member of a group *but only if you owned land as an individual first*
Arria Perreault: about what is based the census?
Micael Khandr: Don't call me shirley . . .
Patroklus Murakami: so the members of a group don't all get a vote
Patroklus Murakami: they need to have been individual land owners first
StuiChicanne Darkstone: but Micael it suits you
Cindy Ecksol: finished pat?
Cindy Ecksol: thx
Cindy Ecksol: gwyn? I think you're next
Jamie Palisades waits for queue
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Gwyneth Llewelyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, Pat pretty much clarified the important point: people have to be citizens first, *then* join a group which owns land, and *afterwards* sell the land that allowed them to become citizens in the first place.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, no, sorry, but Caledon doesn't own us yet
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Jamie Palisades
Rose Springvale: they bought from the beginning
Cindy Ecksol: jamie?
Gwyneth Llewelyn is not quite finoshed
Cindy Ecksol: whoops, sorry!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... so perhaps iot is NOT clear, Rose
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All 1000 citizens of Caledon,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: would have to buy an individual plot *each*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, we don't have so many plots
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so they would have to queue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and since it takes 28 days before you're a voting citizen,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: you can do some maths to see how long it would take for them all to keep citizen status, even after leaving the original land they'd boughht
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree there is a loophole there
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and that the law is a bit naive
Jamie Palisades smiles -
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But it's not THAT bad as you make it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's all... thanks.
Cindy Ecksol: thanks gwyn
Cindy Ecksol: jamie?
Jamie Palisades: My little disclosure
Jamie Palisades: It's relevant now, was not earlier
Jamie Palisades: when AA and CDS merged
Jamie Palisades: I did in fact in my official capacity
Jamie Palisades: get asked
Jamie Palisades: well, requested really
Jamie Palisades: that all 1321 residents of caledon
Jamie Palisades: that is, the grouop membership
Jamie Palisades: be added to our rolls
Jamie Palisades: by a then resident
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Jamie Palisades: i, ah, declined.
Patroklus Murakami: LOL!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Arria Perreault:
Jamie Palisades smiles. That's it, for that item. I have a few more shorter ones.
Cindy Ecksol: rose, are you on this item still?
Rose Springvale: yes
Cindy Ecksol: ok, jamie....let's get rose first then you can finish
Cindy Ecksol: rose?
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Rose Springvale
Rose Springvale: just to point out that 1) there is a sq m requirement of 128 m per voting citizen
Rose Springvale: and 2
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Rose Springvale: that the law has been used by selling citizens who are no longer in volved in CDS to stay "in" the voting roles.
Rose Springvale: it operates to inflate CDS as much as anyplace else
Rose Springvale: and finally, as the party today was scheduled before this meeting, i'm sorry but i'm going to have to go
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Rose Springvale: so if you need anything more from me...
Jamie Palisades: Rose refers to our 1 pm Plats snow party
Jamie Palisades: and thanks vm, Rose
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Rose
Cindy Ecksol: ok, thanks rose.
Cindy Ecksol: jamie?
Arria Perreault: is there any role of this citizen who don't have land anymore?
Jamie Palisades: back to the consultation items then
Jamie Palisades: Four items I wish to pose to you that really are aesthetic in character. Let me ask you, and the community, now, and we'll see what kind of opinions roll in, There probably are no "right" answers in matters of decoration & taste.
Jamie Palisades: On all of them, NOT asking for an answer this minute, but could people think it over?
Pip Torok: back
Arria Perreault: Our aim is to get new citizen. It means that we have to make a difference between sales to citizen and to non-citizen.
Arria Perreault: Potential citizen can buy at any time. Citizen have special moments. In my proposal, it is every 6 months. This can be discussed.
Arria Perreault: In order to get new citizen, we have to improve advertising and marketing. In SL, but also outside SL.
Arria Perreault: Internet is also an important place to advertise
Arria Perreault: SL itself has some tools too for advertising and sales
Arria Perreault: As method, I have proposed auction. I don't think that we will win a lot of money. But it is easy and transparent.
Arria Perreault: In my proposal, it is possible to take in account development projects.
Arria Perreault: I think that it is important to have some thoughts about urbanism in our land management.
Arria Perreault: This can evolve. See what happened in Colonia Nova, where we have redesigned the parcels.
Arria Perreault: I am done with my introduction.
Arria Perreault: (the text is in the amphore)
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Jamie Palisades
Cindy Ecksol: jamie?
Cindy Ecksol: whoops....befor jamie....
Jamie Palisades: right
Cindy Ecksol: I believe we need a second to Arria's motion to discuss
Jamie Palisades: I think i'd said this a few meetings ago, so will try to summarize very tightly. It's unforuntate that this proposal came to the RA tabnle right after another inconsistent one (te :L$0 plan), but it did, and you passed that one. As a several-month exdperiment.
Cindy Ecksol: (sorry jamie)
Jamie Palisades: oop, OK. on hold
Cindy Ecksol: do I hear a second for Arria's proposal?
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds it.
Cindy Ecksol: thanks gwyn.
Cindy Ecksol: ok, jamie, you have the floor
Jamie Palisades: Anyway,I'd suggest you let experiment #1 run before trying experiment #2. and:
Jamie Palisades: on its merits:
Jamie Palisades: We also spoke briefly in November about the feasibility and policy problems with auctions that I see -- and here i must respectfully disagree with Arria --
Jamie Palisades: those of us who do the work believe that they are more effort to run;
Jamie Palisades: and they make maximixing the cost of land our goal -- which does not sound like CDS to me. Done, thanks.
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Pip Torok
Cindy Ecksol: pip?
Pip Torok: how crucial is the question of auction/non-auction to your proposal, Arria?
Arria Perreault: it is not totally crucial. I consider that we have to think about the method
Pip Torok: thank you Arria
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: StuiChicanne Darkstone
Cindy Ecksol: stui?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Auctions are good for the rich but limit opportunity for new poorer prospective citizens, I voted in favour of the $0L sale as I feel it promotes growth and opportunity to become landed, I don't see how the auction would support these principles
Arria Perreault: well ... auction can bring high prices only when the competition is big
Arria Perreault: it is not our case currently
Arria Perreault: LL uses auction
Cindy Ecksol: anyone else? comments? questions?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (it would actually be very fortunate if two plots, which fail to sell for "next to nothing", would suddenly come up in an auction that would have tons of eager bidders ) If I understand the situation right now, this is hardly going to happen all the time)
StuiChicanne Darkstone: then what benefit can there be in it ? if it doesn't deliver a high price then it seems rather redundant to have an auction that delivers little revenue
Arria Perreault: in rl too, states sell abandonned land wit the auction method
Pip Torok agrees with Stui
Arria Perreault: and people can usually get with a small price
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's more the principle of replacing "random pick" by "auction", Stui. So that in the very rare eventuality that two or three people want the same plot to grow their existing parcels aren't left to random chance...
Micael Khandr: Doesn't Jamie's point about the experiment we already supported mean we need to wait to look at Arria's proposal until after that?
Arria Perreault: the method is easy and transparent
Jamie Palisades: (It might to the majority who voted for it. MK)
Pip Torok: ... and divisive imho ...
Cindy Ecksol: well, arria, sometimes municipalities essentially give land away to a "good purpose" too. so wht we are doing is not unprecedented.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I take the position that the poorer citizen can be more productive to the life of the sim than the richer
Arria Perreault: Jamie, do you have a report about the first sale? how many sold parcels? how drawings?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and so the real auction would be in their involvement not their payments
Micael Khandr: I agree with Stui
StuiChicanne Darkstone: but then there is no way to give credit for involvement
Jamie Palisades: NO, wasn;t asked for it ARria. AS IO recall informally there were little or no cases where two people wanted one
Soro Dagostino: I do too.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: so are we to become a snobbish organisation that allows only the rich to join in
Jamie Palisades: (remember, this is not the choice land - this is the abandoned land)
Pip Torok: but it cd always happen one day Jamie
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and for the poor to be on the periphery
StuiChicanne Darkstone: or should be lean towards a meritocracy
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and assist people to join our ranks as much as we can in our limited capacity ?
Cindy Ecksol wonders whether a meritocracy is less "snobbish" than an "aristocracy"
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let's not get too excited about the "poor people" in the CDS who have, after all, a computer able to run SL and broadband access
Arria Perreault: yes
StuiChicanne Darkstone: a computer once bought is not an ongoing cost
Jamie Palisades: I'm sure LL agrees Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know they do, Jamie
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and broadband is a requirement of modern life
StuiChicanne Darkstone: having Linden $ is not
StuiChicanne Darkstone: that is a luxury
Micael Khandr: Again, strongly agree with Stui on this.
Jamie Palisades chuckles. Eat the Poor, yes - and freebies too
Arria Perreault: I can only imagine competition for some special parcels
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and one not afforded to all
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I for one am not exactly untouched by the crisis
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, Stui, your argument still stands ? of course people that have an insane amount of money free to spend would have a huge advantage on an auction where, by chance, two citizens want the same plot
Arria Perreault: I think it is possible to make projects in CDS without money
StuiChicanne Darkstone: if it was not apparent
Pip Torok tends to get "excited" about the poor FWIW ...
StuiChicanne Darkstone: the cost of living rises rather more than the basic wage of the average worker
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and at Christmas
Arria Perreault: auction is only one of the posible methods and I think we should evaluate them, maybe on the basis of a report about the current experiment
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think it is within our scope to appreciate the poor rather more than we do
Arria Perreault: for me, the question of the difference between citizen and non-citizen as potential owner is much more important
Arria Perreault: as well as advertising and marketing
StuiChicanne Darkstone: as we may progress past them with our shopping bags and ignore the homeless man because he ruins our dream of prosperous aquisitive and materialistic heaven
Cindy Ecksol: ***TWO MINUTES LEFT IN DISCUSSION TIME ***
Arria Perreault: look our portal: http://portal.slcds.info/
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Greed is rather the enemy of society
Countdown Timer V3.0: Time is up!
StuiChicanne Darkstone: not it's creator
Arria Perreault: the new sim doesnt have a page
Micael Khandr: Amen, brother Stui!
Arria Perreault: this is an improtant point
Arria Perreault: not only auction
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I for one would never support an auction
Jamie Palisades smiles. Happy to discuss when that's what's on the agenda. Sorry, but what is that timer for?
Cindy Ecksol bangs gavel
Soro Dagostino: Call the Question
Cindy Ecksol: ok, we're out of the 20 minutes allocate d for this.
Arria Perreault: Stui, there are other points in this text
Cindy Ecksol: soro has moved to vote on the question
Cindy Ecksol: is there a second?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: well then I may consider them
Cindy Ecksol: (to close discussion)
Micael Khandr: second
Cindy Ecksol: thank you micael
StuiChicanne Darkstone: when rearranged to a more suitable format
Cindy Ecksol: discussion is now closed
StuiChicanne Darkstone: but when coupled with auction it's never gonna work for me
Cindy Ecksol waves to get stui's attention!
Arria Perreault: can I propose an alternative?
Cindy Ecksol: wait, arria...need to vote on this first.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: sorry Cindy
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor of arria's proposal?
Gwyneth Llewelyn just points out one point on Arria's proposal: "If no one is interested by the same parcel, the citizen can purchase it." And sorry for being out of order. So, the auction is just to replace the "random picking" when TWO or more citizens wish the same plot.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I get rather passionate when someone oversimplifies poverty for want of understanding the issue
Patroklus Murakami: LOL!
Arria Perreault: aye
Jamie Palisades: (ahem, voting)
Micael Khandr: Nay
StuiChicanne Darkstone: NAY
Cindy Ecksol waits for other "Ayes"
Carolyn Saarinen: nay
Soro Dagostino: Nay
Cindy Ecksol: ok, nays too
Cindy Ecksol: I say nay
Pip Torok: nay
Soro Dagostino: [Just to be safe] Nay
Gwyneth Llewelyn whistles the "International"
Micael Khandr: nay
Cindy Ecksol: thank you, soro
StuiChicanne Darkstone: NAY NAY THRICE NAY !
Cindy Ecksol: I see 7 nays, two Ayes...the proposition is defeated.
Cindy Ecksol: next (and last) on the agenda today:
Cindy Ecksol: Caro, I believe you have a motion?
Carolyn Saarinen: Well, Jamie does.
Arria Perreault: I asked before if I can make an alternative proposal?
Jamie Palisades: Caro, I cannot make a motion at RA.
Cindy Ecksol: arria, yes...but next time.
Carolyn Saarinen: It's the matter of amending our laws regarding factions. Jamie, please explain.
Cindy Ecksol: agenda is packed today, no new items
Jamie Palisades waits for Cindy
Arria Perreault: May I a remark though?
Soro Dagostino: We are missing a party . . .
Cindy Ecksol: I'll take that as a motion to introduce the proposal noted on the agenda
Cindy Ecksol: Jamie, you have the floor
Carolyn Saarinen: Yes
Soro Dagostino: Second.
Soro Dagostino: Move to table.
Jamie Palisades: well, ok, but only to say that this is the proposal i suggested some time ago to make factions an optional part of CDS politics, not its center and utter ruler.
Cindy Ecksol: a second for Soro's motion?
Jamie Palisades shuts up, waiting on the tabling motion
Cindy Ecksol: (tabling means we will take this up next time)
Carolyn Saarinen: I thought Soro was seconding my motion
Jamie Palisades: he did
Gwyneth Llewelyn thought so, too
Soro Dagostino: I did
Cindy Ecksol: he did...and now has moved to wait until next time
Cindy Ecksol: any second?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah! lol
Soro Dagostino: Then I moved to table.
Cindy Ecksol: if not, we move to discussion...
Cindy Ecksol: 10 minutes today in light of the party
Gwyneth Llewelyn would definitely like the discussion to *start* today so I won't second the motion to table
Cindy Ecksol: ok, motion to table fails for want of a second
Cindy Ecksol: jamie, you have the floor.
Soro Dagostino: Thanks the body.
Cindy Ecksol: 10 minutes, then a motion
Jamie Palisades: I doubt i need to say much that has not already been typed. I got some help in parsing out the policy issues from my neighbor here, Patroklus, and between the two of us, we are getting some of the opinions aired on the Forum pages Done for now
Arria Perreault: (for Constitutional change: 10 minutes: )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (the irony, Arria )
Arria Perreault: (expeditive democracy)
Cindy Ecksol: relax, ladies!
Jamie Palisades: (until the RA moves to change that, Arria .. ask Gywn, she knows rules)
Cindy Ecksol: we are just BEGINNING discussion today, ok?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, Tovarich, I mean, Ms LRA... we'll relax
Jamie Palisades: Ah I always knew you were a fellow Red at heart, Red
Cindy Ecksol:
Cindy Ecksol: ok....
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought that was mandatory today?
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Gwyneth Llewelyn
Arria Perreault: I did not even had the time to make alternative to my proposal
Arria Perreault: so
Cindy Ecksol: Gwyn, you have the floor
Patroklus Murakami: well, apparently *everyone* in the CDS is a communist today
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Apparently, yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway...
Jamie Palisades: see/ don;t NEED factions
Cindy Ecksol checks her red hat
Pip Torok: ????? ...
Gwyneth Llewelyn: After some thoughts and discussion,
Patroklus Murakami: no, the soviets never did!
Cindy Ecksol: Gwyn, comments, rebuttal, etc?
Cindy Ecksol: time's a wastin'
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, just a commenty
Gwyneth Llewelyn: In principle, at least the CSDF doesn't oppose Jamie's suggestion of a "faction-less" constitution
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, this might come as a surprise to you, Jamie )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is just a point that we feel that might require a bit of clarification
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We'd go for the method of having STV as opposed to "first past the post"
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And we'd like to see some discussion about "replacements"
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The current proposal is not SO clear. I mean, you could get a completely different person on the RA,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: if the original person that was voted for leaves
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And having by-elections *all the time* would be a pain
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sooo barring those two points,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that we would definitely go for the change
Gwyneth Llewelyn: After all, there is a plain, simple fact that no faction today can deny: most of us won't meet the criteria for continuing to be around on the next elections ))
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So let's be practical!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's all, thanks.
Cindy Ecksol: thanks gwyn
Cindy Ecksol: anyone else? discussion? comments?
Cindy Ecksol: jamie?
Jamie Palisades: On one minor point
Jamie Palisades: STV
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Jamie Palisades
Jamie Palisades: single transferable vote
Jamie Palisades: just so people know
Jamie Palisades: it;ls a way to count cumulative votes that SORT OF
Jamie Palisades: works like our current system
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* quite right.
Jamie Palisades: in the sense that it gives some rank to secondplace preferences
Jamie Palisades: and so is a little more forgiving to minority candidates
Jamie Palisades: . done, just thought it was worth mentioning.
Cindy Ecksol: thanks jamie
Cindy Ecksol: anyone else?
Pip Torok: yes
Cindy Ecksol: pip?
Pip Torok: imo the great pinch has been the 10% rule ...
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Pip Torok: we should recognise that ppl in CDS can and should be allowed to be indifferent to politics
Pip Torok: done
Cindy Ecksol: thanks puo
Cindy Ecksol: pip
Cindy Ecksol: sorry....
Jamie Palisades nods
Cindy Ecksol: can we entertain a motion to table so that we can adjourn and go party?
Micael Khandr: Comrades, I move that membership in a faction not be a qualifier for running for office or voting.
Soro Dagostino: I second.
Cindy Ecksol: micael, we already have a similar motion on the table....
Cindy Ecksol: or related, anyway -- your proposal requires constitutional amendment
Countdown Timer V3.0: Time is up!
Micael Khandr: What motion are you calling for, Cindy?
Micael Khandr: Motion to adjourn?
Cindy Ecksol: Caro's motion is currently on the table for discussion (Jamie's proposal)
Cindy Ecksol: I need a motion to table
Micael Khandr: I see
Cindy Ecksol: (discuss at next meeting)
Pip Torok: so moved
Micael Khandr: Sorry
Cindy Ecksol: second?
Soro Dagostino: second.
Arria Perreault: we can also discuss longer
Cindy Ecksol: thansk
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor?
Pip Torok: aye
Carolyn Saarinen: aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
Soro Dagostino: Aye
Micael Khandr: Aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Party TIME !
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Cindy Ecksol: ok, motion tabled.
Arria Perreault: abstain
Gwyneth Llewelyn abstains
Soro Dagostino: Move adjournment.
Cindy Ecksol: any concerns of council or citizens?
Cindy Ecksol: if not, is there a second for soro's move to adjourn?
Micael Khandr: second
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor?
Micael Khandr: aye
Soro Dagostino: Aye
Carolyn Saarinen: aye
Patroklus Murakami: cheerio
StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye !
Arria Perreault: abstains
Gwyneth Llewelyn abstains again (with due respect to the ones who wish to party, of course; Rose put a lot of effort into it and we shouldn't remain here talking, but, alas, sometimes we also discuss important things )
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Jamie Palisades: Folks, please do join us over in the Marktplatz, even if only briefly. Thanks
Cindy Ecksol: we are adjourned and thank you.