[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: the SC has only the power to veto legislation,[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Olive:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Rudy Ruml[/b:3igo2whc]: The SC can veto, rewrite, or resubmit fills It can skke impeachment. It isi not bount by the consitution and that is in the constiitution.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: *if* it somehow violates the Constitution or the Founding Documents.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: It can't, say, veto a financial bill,[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Olive:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Rudy Ruml[/b:3igo2whc]: Now, it is not bound. I?m reading it.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: or a bill that doesn't violate the Constitution[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: It's not bound on the Constitution to *interpret* it
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: *to[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: and if the SC oversteps its powers, it can be impeached by the RA or the GM[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: aye[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: In effect the SC has served not as an exec[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Olive:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Rudy Ruml[/b:3igo2whc]: That it not in the consitition, unless I miissed it.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: The RA does not even need an argument for impeachment,[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: unlike the other two bodies.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: but as a constitional (and other) court.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: Lets get back to the question of the veto.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: rudy, i balked at the description of the SC in the constitution as well (in fact, i put me off nstadt for a while) but it's not the authoritarian power you might think it is[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Olive:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Rudy Ruml[/b:3igo2whc]: Ah, I found it. Right, the RA can impeach members of the SC.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Although, and this is something to be addressed as well, I think that most people would agree that the SC is seen as having "too much power"... and since that's the way people see it... that should be changed.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: yes, back to the veto[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: mm hmm Rudy. It can[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: The question that the DPU rases is where are checks and balances to come from if the executive is an arm of the RA.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: indeed jon, it is a *good* question![/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: and check it with the other two bodies. All need "grounds for impeachment", whereas when the RA impeaches the SC, it doesn't need any reasons for doing so (ie. the RA is sovereign!)[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Agreed, Jon.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: The DPU is coming at this from a US perspective.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: an issue with teh SC - as with the Guild -is that it can become a hmmm clique easily[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: Where the executive has far greater power than in many parlements.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: True hehe[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Olive:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Rudy Ruml[/b:3igo2whc]: The SC is unelected, whereas the RA is. It is as thouogh the SC was a cabinet, with the Dean as the leader.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Olive:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Rudy Ruml[/b:3igo2whc]: As the unnelected leader, except by the SC.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Well Rudy ? indeed, the way members are admitted to the SC *has* to change.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: exactly Rudy... the Dean appoints the members that will elect the Dean... etc etc etc[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Right now, all they need is a joint "vote of confidence" from RA & the Guild.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: So, the proposed changes to Justice's draft are an attempt to include a system of checks[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: brb[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Olive:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Rudy Ruml[/b:3igo2whc]: While it seems to me that Gwyn is laid back about her powr, that may not be the case for the next dean.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Jon ? I see Justice's point of view,[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: but I'm afraid he wants an executive with semi-legislative powers[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: or at least with checks on the legislative branch.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: that do resemble the US system, on what otherwise is more of the system we proposed with no popular election for the executive,[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Rudy ? actually, you're quite right with my predecessor
hehe[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: since we have a plan of action on this item can we move on?[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: Rudy, Gwyn is the best possible SC dean.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Olive:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Rudy Ruml[/b:3igo2whc]: Were I redoing the constitution, I would make it a parliamentary system.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: Well, we have a practical matter of strategy.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: We are the opposition party.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Olive:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Rudy Ruml[/b:3igo2whc]: But, you need courts to deal with contentious issues.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: Gwyn is a great Dean, i agree
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: and there is another proposal on the table regarding exec reform as well.....[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Olive:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Rudy Ruml[/b:3igo2whc]: And as I userstand the SC ,it has served as kind of a court.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: Rudy, yes it has.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: k follks, one meeting at time. can we stick to the issue of the exec reforms? we can discuss the SC another time[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: Yes, Pat, I agree with you.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: hehe sure Pat
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: jon, u mentioned strategy?[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: So, do people agree that we should persue the proposed compromise?[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: yes.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: Well, still to be decided, how will be work on the issue of bill vs amendtment[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: re-drafting of teh amendment? is that our poition? we stick for the principle?[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: I think if we hold out for an amendment they will have to allow it[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: i think the principle is non-negotiable[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: btw, please forgive all the typos .)[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: because otherwise a bill replacing the Guild will not be constitional.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: amendment or bust![/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: yes![/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][i:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle laughs[/i:3igo2whc][/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: so, they're in a tight corner? .)[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]:
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: yay![/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: Yes, because if they propose an amendment giving the RA the guild's powers.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: we can stand in the way of that unless it also establishes the exec.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Hm. Question,[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: do they intend to really do that,[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: I mean giving the RA the Guild's powers?[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: The other option for them is to pass the bill and get it vetoed by the SC I think.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Or just indirectly?[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Well, the SC would probably stall. We'd have to discuss it very thoroughly...[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: yes.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: hmmm[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: well, they're going to take ashcroft's arguments on the constl issue down to the wire[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: i think they might force it the SC[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: which way willthe SC vote? and how long are we going to be tied up with this?[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: Yes, I do agree with Pat. But there may be another element here.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Unpredictable, Pat[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: I am not sure how unified the DPU is on the non-(anti?) constitutional strategy.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: claude has not weighed in heavily on that point[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: i do wonder why do they insist on the anti-constthingy...[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: in my opinion he's more worried about preserving checks and balances[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: ah, i have that opinion too Pat, he's been striking that note several times already[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: Pat, I agree. And our bill would be better than Justice's in that regard.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: which is why my suggestion - replacing the guild with a direclty elected exec is so superb![/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]:
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]:
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][i:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami is deafened by the silence![/i:3igo2whc][/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: lol[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][i:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle laughs[/i:3igo2whc][/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: lol[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: I actually think in the short term we might do better with an election..[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: (i didn't think you'd like it
)[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: but in the long term, it would be a problem.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: ?'m just a bit afraid that we're not proposing much in the way of an "agreement" on the const. issue.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Remember, Ashcroft's argument *might* be accepted by the SC,[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: but it would mean a terrible precedent.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: hmm, i tend ot agree with gwyn. we need to move to get agreement[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: but Gwyn\[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Basically, that 2 years of work would (and should!) be dumped.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: Ashcroft's argument can be refuted by precedent as well[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: It won't be an easy decision.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Hmm[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: How so, Moon?[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: well, ashcroft's legal proposals would put the SC below the constitution. but that's next item...[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: Well, I think that we need to retain our right to vote against what really are constitutional changes. What compromise could would in this case?[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: That's my question as well, Jon...[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: You can't have "semi-amendments"
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: could work?[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Or half-bills, half-amendments
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: exactly.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: could we agree to a limited constil amendment, enough to enable a bugermeister bill[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: So, I'd say, that the only way is to "we'll vote as you like, if you vote on one of our bills as WE like"
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: I think we may have to stick to our guns (terrible expression) on this one.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: and then add most of the meat in a bill?[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Pat ? let's hear the suggestion.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Say, keeping the Guild?
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: but actually Ash's arguments can be also refuted by assuming that the Const is vague/undefned at that point, and propose an amendment to make it more precise...[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: But just clarifying its powers?[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Yes Moon[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: it seems to be important to them that things can be changed if the institution doesn't work[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: we think alike![/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: you can say Gwyn[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Yes, Justice was quite clear on that...[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: remember that Exec actionsdoc?[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: yes...[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: so, the Guild does teh Exec actions, simple[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: Pat, I see no reason to belive that is an issue at all. I think they really know what they want, just have[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: that's the beauty of defining the Actions, NOT the body[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: a steategy for getting there.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: BUT[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: *strategy[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: Guild must have the internal organization more defined[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: lol can no longer type[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: well, i'm fairly lost now i confess
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: lol, me too[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: What I am saying is that I really doubt they want this to be a bill because they want[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: to make it easy to experiment.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Oh![/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: I think this is a power move.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Aaah[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: right jon. u r saying it's just a tactic[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: I might agree, Jon, specially because Justice accused us of doing the same
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: well, maybe[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: pretty high stakes tho, given that it relies on the SC to acquiesce[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: yes, indeed[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: but with very high payoff if they succeed[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Hmm... well yes.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: so do u think there's no real will there for a compromise?[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: in effect this may make it harder for us on other matters.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: That I am not sure of,[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: so...[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: as I said, there may be different opinions within the DPU.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: I'll be off for a second, I'm sorry.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Just pointing a customer to Moon's shop
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: oh, that's nice
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: Ah! (smiles at Gwyn)[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: i think we may be seeing internal confusion and mistaking it for a strategy
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: hmmm, Pat,[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][i:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle listens to Pat[/i:3igo2whc][/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: well, are we agreed on next steps?[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: i could bet l$ 5 on that
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: no lol[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: what are next steps, please?[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][i:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle laughs, L$5 is not what it used to be..[/i:3igo2whc][/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: if they published their chat logs we would know[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Olive:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Rudy Ruml[/b:3igo2whc]: Is the discussion ohere published?[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: (sorry, really slow today...)[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: i think next step is for someone (nudges Jon) to draft a constl amend and circulate it to us by email[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: I will do that and send it out before Saturday[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: the RA meeting is delayed one week so we have a little time.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: yes, rudy. we publish our transcripts so that ppl who werent' here can read the discussion[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: thank you for the tp, Moon![/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: thanks Jon
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: did u touch the recorder to indicate consent, rudy?[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: oh, gwynnine, thank you for teh customer
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Olive:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Rudy Ruml[/b:3igo2whc]: Yes.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: well Moon, she might buy some Fachwerks from Dianne instead
? but still she compliemented you on your shop and how fine Neufreistadt looks overall![/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: kk
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: k, just checking
transcripts of previous meetings are on the nstadt forums, in the interests of transparency[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: mm hmm yes[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: I think we've got them all online...[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: lol, we had some complains...
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: so, gwyn. jon is going to prepare a new draft for discussion by email[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][i:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle laughs, yes we did[/i:3igo2whc][/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: hehe yes, I remember that![/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: shall we turn to legal matters?[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Sure
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: Ah, yes.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: ashcroft has published a reply to my post asking for info on the scenarios i painted[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: I want to say something.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: i thought they were v useful[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][i:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn listens.[/i:3igo2whc][/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: yes, jon[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][i:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant listens[/i:3igo2whc][/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: I really will need a huge amount of time to digest all that has gone on in the forum concerning Ashcroft's proposeal. And that fact alone worries me.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: That a real-world type of legal system may be far too labor intensive for us to manage.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: been there as well...[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: we are a group of 30 - 40 people after all.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: there are some troubling features of his proposal which i will tackle in a post tomorrow or at the weekend[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: yes, they are more suited to a nation of 3m+[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: but i like the scaleability, qn is whether they work at our scale[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: hehe well.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: yes, gywn?[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Oh, while I certainly agree that Ash's proposal is QUITE complex,[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: well... how can we propose something that is "easier"[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: but addresses all the issues he mentions?[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: I mean... he has it all... even templates for forms for submitting things to the judicial....[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: exactly. he's delivered a fully-fledged workable system. it's quite brilliant[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: I do certainly agree...[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: However, *some* things have to be weeded out[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: can it b scaled down?[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: For instance... technically, at the moment, we only have 1 1/2 judges available
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: That's the issue, Moon ? HOW?
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: yes, it will work with just one court and one judge. which is all we need[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: I can't answer that question except to say, perhaps that is an argument against our democracy. I can see such a system when we reach several hundred persons and multiple sims and can share the labor.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Olive:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Rudy Ruml[/b:3igo2whc]: I think the point about complexity in a tribe of 30-40 people is well taken. An elected council and a leader would seem normally sufficient.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]:
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: We *love* complexity
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: but we are encountering issues where we need a court system[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: lol[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: and are more likely to as we grow[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: Gwyneth Appleby?
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: Ah, Gwyn, but it keeps us awake far too late.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: lol Moon
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: An d that is certainly true![/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: this could be a service that brings in revenue and kudos for Nstadt[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Olive:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Rudy Ruml[/b:3igo2whc]: Can you have a consitituional convention.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: I think that would interest quite a few of us, yes...[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: And Rudy, yes hehe[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: Pat, perhaps this could be thought of as a cost-benifit thing.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Hmm[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: well, yes rudy we could. but the current constitution was kind of formed that way
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Well... there is also the cost of having to set up a system for scratch *if* we don't approve Ashcroft's proposal
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Olive:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Rudy Ruml[/b:3igo2whc]: I?m think of starting my oown faction. If I do, I would push for such a convention.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: Yes, it might have some good effects, but how many people want to have a full time job as a judge in second life?[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Yay on that, Rudy![/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: yay indeed Rudy
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: good for u rudy. why not?[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][i:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant loves multipartidarism[/i:3igo2whc][/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Olive:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Rudy Ruml[/b:3igo2whc]: The freedom faction.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: Yes, we would support a const. convention I think.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: mm hmm[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: are the concerns that ashcroft's oultine is impractical? it seemed pretty minimalist to me and yet adaptable[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: we would, i also agree[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Well... Pat, on that issue, I would be very much like the pragmatists,[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: why don't we try it out and see if it works?
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: i'm more worried about agreeing some irrevocable aspects of teh system (or difficult to revoke aspects)[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: i'm with gwyn on this[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Hmm.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: well, Beloved Leader.... i would like to read your objections too
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: I remember that the biggest criticism on the SC, beyond its "excess of power",[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][i:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle shrugs and will go with whatever the group decides'[/i:3igo2whc][/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: was its total lack of procedures.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: this way we get procedures coming out the wazoo![/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Now they might criticise its *excess* of procedures
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: I think if I had to choose between a new legal system and CN, I would go with CN.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Yes Pat hehe[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Aaah[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: That is a good point indeed, Jon![/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: I would agree as well ? but why not have both?
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: oh yes jon, but is that the choice?[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: I am worried that we are too small to manage both at once.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][i:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami is gwyn's echo today[/i:3igo2whc][/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: lol Pat![/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Well Jon,[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: think of it this way... who, do you think, will handle the judicial,[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: and who will handle Colonia Nova?[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: hmmm, it's a fct that the SPC meetings are dwindling a bit...
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: i would agree with u jon, but i don't think we can put it off. we have to seize this chance while ashcroft is keen and creative[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: the way I see it, Jon, only 3-5 people are available for participating in the legal system.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: And none of them are builders, texturisers, etc[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: On the other hand, we have perhaps a dozen of people for Colonia Nova,[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: if we say 'let's wait six months while we sort out CN' the momentum will be gone and the opportunity lost[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: all of them builders, texturisers, architects, programmers...[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: I tend to agree, Jon[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: but i am concerned to get get CN moving once more[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: ?*Pat sorry![/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: Ah, but several people involved in CN are on the RA. And I wonder if this won't take some of our work as well.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: yes ? remember my early warnings, the DPU will try to stall Colonia Nova as much as possible
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: On the legal system?[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: yes, like teh two of us, lol[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: Here is a tiny secret, Jon...[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Olive:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Rudy Ruml[/b:3igo2whc]: Couont me in on CN.[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: ... since the whole document is about "procedures"[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: that could be approved in the Sc internally
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: oh Rudy, thanks
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: awww thank you Rudy!![/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Navy:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Patroklus Murakami[/b:3igo2whc]: i don't think the legal system requires too much further debate. hehe, nice one Gwyn[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: Very interesting. Hmmm..[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][i:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn always has some hidden cards up her sleeves,[/i:3igo2whc][/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: even when I don't actually wear them
[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkSlateGray:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:3igo2whc]: hehe[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Olive:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Rudy Ruml[/b:3igo2whc]: Hahs[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=Indigo:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Moon Adamant[/b:3igo2whc]: lol Gwyneth[/color:3igo2whc]
[color=DarkRed:3igo2whc][b:3igo2whc]Jon Seattle[/b:3igo2whc]: So perhaps it is not something we need to take a position on in that case?[/color:3igo2whc]