In attendance: Cindy Ecksol, Soro Dagostino, Gwyneth Llewelyn, Sonja Strom, Pip Torok, Naftali Torok, Micael Khandr
Seven day votes: Joaquin Gustav, Arria Perrault, Carolyn Saarinen, Robert Galland
Cindy Ecksol: ok, recorder is running...
Cindy Ecksol: please click on it now (even if you did before) to indicate consent
Soro Dagostino has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn says hi and quickly touches teh recorder!
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
Soro Dagostino: Hello Gwyn . . .
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow I love that skirt, Cindy ? I love all assymetric designs 
)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oops ... forgot about the recorder!!!
Cindy Ecksol: yes, it's nice isn't it?
Cindy Ecksol: went shopping a couple of weeks ago
Sonja Strom: yes, it is
Sonja Strom: Hi Pip
Pip Torok: hi sonja, gwyn
Soro Dagostino: Hello Pip
Pip Torok: soro, cindy
Gwyneth Llewelyn notices that she's the only one not dressed in the Christmas spirit... 
Cindy Ecksol: do you recognize the top, gwyn? you should!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, that looks familiar, Cindy )
Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ooo and the tiny gif tied to the end of the Santa hat... haha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and a tinklebell!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... these designers are too much ))
Pip Torok: ha ... santa's coming
Cindy Ecksol: yeah, that was pretty cute
Cindy Ecksol: touch the hat and it rings
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ooooh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahahahahaha
Pip Torok has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so sweet
Pip Torok: nafs doing encores at cedar island ... "she may be some time"
Cindy Ecksol: hee hee!
Cindy Ecksol: those fans, just wont' let her go
Pip Torok: they cling so ...
Gwyneth Llewelyn apologieses but had to get some coffee, brr
Cindy Ecksol:
Cindy Ecksol: have already been out for three hours this morning.
Pip Torok: i'll dare ask it ... how's the weather?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So did I... to cross the street only though
Cindy Ecksol: it's well below freezing here, but I've finally adjusted.....
Cindy Ecksol: we only got about six inches in my backyard
Gwyneth Llewelyn: "only", she says...
Cindy Ecksol: big crowds shopping in the strip district (market district)
Pip Torok: shallow by USA standards ...
Sonja Strom:
Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles @ Pip
Cindy Ecksol: yes -- they had two feet not to far south of me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow ....
Naftali Torok: present!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, hi, Naf We all heard you have been a *huge* success ))
Cindy Ecksol: good job, naf!
Naftali Torok: finally can make it one time here
Cindy Ecksol: we're still waiting for a quorum though...
Naftali Torok: just came from music island
Soro Dagostino: Hello Naf
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Slowly getting there, Cindy, very slowly....
Naftali Torok has indicated consent to be recorded.
Cindy Ecksol: arria said she is coming....
Gwyneth Llewelyn *counts*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we need 7, right?
Cindy Ecksol: at least on the doodle she did...
Cindy Ecksol: yes...
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok...
Gwyneth Llewelyn *slaps her forehead*
Naftali Torok: hi gwyn, hi sonja hi sorro wnks at cindy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... I forgot about the doodle thingy!
Cindy Ecksol raises eyebrows at gwyn
Naftali Torok: looks at pip (thinks : he did change quick!!!) lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry, sorry ! .... but I'm here nevertheless
Pip Torok: quite!
Naftali Torok: sorro your xmas hat is too small i think....or yoyur intellect too much...
Cindy Ecksol: lol!!!
Soro Dagostino: Fat head
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Naf
Cindy Ecksol: this hat I'm wearing is adjustable.
Gwyneth Llewelyn looks for a SL fur coat
Pip Torok: (find an accommodating SL Polar Bear?)
Cindy Ecksol: well, what do you think folks?
Naftali Torok: hey Good job Soro....fantastique now
Cindy Ecksol: shall we wait or give it up?
Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with waiting
Soro Dagostino: Reading Jamie post, and the argument.
Soro Dagostino: If we ever get to it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I guess I ought to read it too....
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Cindy Ecksol: good idea....agenda in the amphora as usual
Pip Torok: in the Forum?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Micael is arriving! We might be saved!
Pip Torok:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay Micael ) thanks for coming ))
Sonja Strom: Hi Micael
Cindy Ecksol: micael!
Soro Dagostino: hello Micael
Cindy Ecksol: you made a quorum!
Micael Khandr: Greetings--sorry I'm late.
Soro Dagostino: Good to see you.
Cindy Ecksol: you're just in the nick of time...we were considering adjourning for lack of a quorum
Micael Khandr has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Excellent timing )
Cindy Ecksol: ok, click the recorder if you have not, and let's get started
Micael Khandr: I did
Cindy Ecksol: any additions to the agenda?
Soro Dagostino: Wish there were, now that we have a quorum
Cindy Ecksol:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Soro )
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shakes head*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and smiles
Cindy Ecksol: ok, no changes....?
Cindy Ecksol: can I get a motion to approve the agenda
Soro Dagostino: So move
Pip Torok: so move
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds.
Cindy Ecksol: thanks
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor aye, all opposed nay
Micael Khandr: Aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Soro Dagostino: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Cindy Ecksol: excellent...
Pip Torok: pokes naf
Cindy Ecksol: ok, next meeting (last of the term) is scheduled for Jan 3
Cindy Ecksol: I will probably not make it.....
Cindy Ecksol: soro, will you be here? can you chair?
Soro Dagostino: It looks ok at this time.
Cindy Ecksol: great.
Cindy Ecksol: everyone ok with 9am on 3 jan?
Micael Khandr: OK
Soro Dagostino: Holiday weekend.
Pip Torok: i am
Sonja Strom: I am
Soro Dagostino: I am
Cindy Ecksol: yes...that's why I'm asking.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm fine too.
Cindy Ecksol: if we don't do it on the 3rd, we'd have to do it next weekend
Cindy Ecksol: not sure that's any better
Pip Torok: ! 
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 
Cindy Ecksol: by the 10th we'll be into the election...
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Cindy Ecksol: so 3 jan at 0900
Cindy Ecksol: ?
Soro Dagostino: Agreed
Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with that
Pip Torok: so move
Micael Khandr: OK
Cindy Ecksol: great.
Micael Khandr: OK second
Pip Torok: ok
Micael Khandr: third too
Cindy Ecksol: some 7 day votes today....joa, arria, caro, robert
Soro Dagostino: Fourth and a fifth -- of brandy for Cindy
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
Cindy Ecksol smiles and sips coffee...
Cindy Ecksol: I deserve it, don't i??
Cindy Ecksol: ok....
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh most definitely, yes !
Cindy Ecksol: jamie is not here, so I guess no chancellor's report.
Micael Khandr: Then we are on time
Cindy Ecksol: what I'm most concerned about right now is that we have not heard the census report yet...
Cindy Ecksol: anyone else know anything?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Pip Torok: not a thing and the DPU is anxious too
Gwyneth Llewelyn doesn't know anything either....
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (well, I usually don't! hehe )(
Cindy Ecksol: all right, I will follow up with jamie. he must be busy in RL -- have hardly seen him at all in world
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mm hmm
Cindy Ecksol: gwyn, I forget -- does SC have to certify that census?
Soro Dagostino: I was told his RL schedule was really bad.
Soro Dagostino: And, I think SC has to certify.
Cindy Ecksol: I think I remember that too soro -- gwyn, do you know?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Cindy Ecksol: all right needs to be done -- faction cert and candidate declarations are due on the 25th
Gwyneth Llewelyn is brain dead
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, those two certainly have to be certified by the SC
Cindy Ecksol jingles bell to wake gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm not sure about the census though
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane was online a couple of hours ago...
Soro Dagostino: In Section 2 . . . .
Cindy Ecksol: well, it's jamie's prerogative to announce, so I'll work with him on that.
Soro Dagostino: SC does have to certify.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If she logs back in, we can ask her directly about the census .... but yes, it's up to Jamie
Cindy Ecksol: ok....
Cindy Ecksol: moving on, stui is not here, so I guess no commerce commission report either....unless there's a member present who wishes to comment?
Sonja Strom: I went to three meetings, but do not know what the commission is doing really.
Cindy Ecksol:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That *is* a bad sign...!
Cindy Ecksol: ok then....I guess we move on
Cindy Ecksol: old business.
Cindy Ecksol: constitutional revision
Cindy Ecksol: discussion was tabled last tme, so we are still in "discussion time"
Soro Dagostino: Move to table
Cindy Ecksol: second?
Gwyneth Llewelyn rubs hands and does an evil cat grin
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Table again??? Oh my
Pip Torok: what does m 2 t mean?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It means postponing it...
Cindy Ecksol: pip, would mean that we will postpone until next meeting
Cindy Ecksol: again
Micael Khandr: second
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor?
Micael Khandr: Aye
Pip Torok: well we do need to discuss it and we have the time here and now
Soro Dagostino: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with Pip so votes "nay"
Pip Torok: nay
Sonja Strom: nay
Micael Khandr: But not everyone is here, so the discussion will be limited
Pip Torok: cant be laid to the subject-matter imo
Soro Dagostino: Difficult without the proponent here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since we can't foresee if "everybody will be here" next time, it's better to discuss with whomever is around than to endlessly wait and hope for a fuller RA
Pip Torok: well imo it wd be a good time to take initial reactions
Micael Khandr: Hmm, not sure I wanted to wait endlessly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: imo too
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Cindy Ecksol: ok....so are you changing your vote, micael?
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Micael Khandr: Nope, still Ayen to postponement
Sonja Strom: Hi Lysander, this is a public meeting, you are welcome to join us and listen.
Micael Khandr: Aye
Cindy Ecksol: ok...
Cindy Ecksol: need naf to vote .....
Cindy Ecksol: someone poke her please
Lysander Kaestner: Thank you very much. I believe I will observe for just a bit.
Naftali Torok: me
Naftali Torok: lol
Cindy Ecksol: yes, you!
Sonja Strom: yes
Naftali Torok: grins
Naftali Torok: sorry
Cindy Ecksol: motion is to postpone discussion of the amendment to abolish factions
Cindy Ecksol: aye if you would likke to postpone, nay if not
Pip Torok: the vote is whether or not to postpone talk of constitution
Micael Khandr: because not everyone is here
Soro Dagostino: [we could go home]
Naftali Torok: postpone
Micael Khandr: [yes]
Cindy Ecksol: and also vote aye
Naftali Torok: aye
Naftali Torok: postpone =better
Cindy Ecksol: discussino postponed until next time
Naftali Torok: great
Micael Khandr: perfect
Cindy Ecksol: I think this is difficult without the proponent.....
Naftali Torok: lol
Pip Torok: reluctantly agrees
Cindy Ecksol: no new business...
Cindy Ecksol: concerns of RA members?
Micael Khandr: I did want to mention something.
Gwyneth Llewelyn bites her tongue.
Cindy Ecksol: yes, micael?
Countdown Timer V3.0: only the owner can use this object
Micael Khandr: Just a FYI--
Cindy Ecksol: yes?
Micael Khandr: I plan to hold a series of open interviews starting mid-January at the Convivencia Institute
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... interviews?
Micael Khandr: that would be with those here and not here that have worked in CDS for many or few years
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh!
Micael Khandr: Just to gather experiences
Cindy Ecksol:
Micael Khandr: what and why and who
Pip Torok: I'm ready when you are, Micael
Cindy Ecksol: hee hee!
Micael Khandr: Cool
Soro Dagostino: Your going to make us think?
Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles
Soro Dagostino: HAHAHAHAH
Micael Khandr: I will set up specfic dates and times with each of you, and hope the RA would be willing to start the ball rolling
Naftali Torok: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
Soro Dagostino: Seriously, that sounds like a great idea.
Micael Khandr: I will eventually try to collect the info for an article I will write on SL and democracy.
Micael Khandr:
Micael Khandr: just a FYI
Micael Khandr: more to come
Pip Torok: any idea of when youll publish, Micael?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh wow wow wow
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Micael Khandr: for a conference (in Europe) next year--probably will have to complete it by May
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now that's amazing, Micael!
Pip Torok: good (will have momentum then)
Micael Khandr: Yes
Cindy Ecksol: oooh, fun!
Naftali Torok: nods, great idea
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lots of fun
Cindy Ecksol: when and where is th e conference
Micael Khandr: So, you'll each and all hear from me after the first of the year
Cindy Ecksol: maybe we could have a CDS "meet up" at the same time/place?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You know, Micael, LL used to do lots of presentations using the CDS as an example...
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good idea, Cindy!!
Micael Khandr: November in Hungary
Pip Torok: (dont anyone say C*p*nh*g*n)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And get streamed live into Micael's presentation!
Cindy Ecksol: oooh, now THAT sounds like fun!!!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: roflPip
Micael Khandr: Thahnks for your positive response!
Micael Khandr: thanks
Cindy Ecksol: I have a friend in Czech REpublic I've been meaning to visit (
Micael Khandr:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, that's awesome really, Micael
Micael Khandr: Yes--that would be great to have any of you attend with me!
Gwyneth Llewelyn would just go incognito
Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
Micael Khandr: Perhaps on SL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's always fine
Cindy Ecksol: well, will be happy to be interviewed, and will be even more interested to read the article
Cindy Ecksol: what's the conference, micael?
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Cindy on both comments
Micael Khandr: One on teaching democracy
Lysander Kaestner: Thank you all, interesting stuff. Take care.
Pip Torok: <sits up at that>
Micael Khandr: So this is a perfect example/case study!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh... depending on the word "perfect" :=)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahaha
Micael Khandr: True . . .
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let's say mmmh
Soro Dagostino: groan . . .
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: an *interesting* case study
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Soro !
Cindy Ecksol: well, it IS interesting.....
Soro Dagostino: We all have to wear gloves.
Cindy Ecksol: I've said before that in virtual worlds "code is law"....and CDS is the only experiment I know of that attempts to transcend that.
Pip Torok: and bow-ties?
Micael Khandr: I'll have questions prepared and get some feedback at the next meeting, with your permission
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Specially for two reasons, IMHO... democracy is hard and not so obvious; we just take it for granted. And secondly, strangely enough, nobody really *cares* about democracy (just look at the whole of SL!), and that is more surprising... even fearful!
Cindy Ecksol: there are a LOT of analogies to RL republics....Israel, former soviet republics, etc.
Cindy Ecksol: afghanistan, Iraq....all of that.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Pip Torok: quite ...
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The "benelovent dictatorship" model is the prevalent one in SL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... since that's what LL also applies
Micael Khandr: landed gentry?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I prefer to call it "enlightened absolutism" )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, I mean that too, Micael!
Pip Torok: even worse since LL dictates the SL equivalents of the laws of Physics
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Two oooooooold articles of mine: http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2004/09/24/t ... cond-life/
Micael Khandr: beyond quantum
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2004/12/03/w ... s-so-hard/
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The "landed gentry" model is actually VERY good for SL!
Pip Torok: thanls Gwyn
Cindy Ecksol agrees with gwyn
Cindy Ecksol: look how successful Caledon has been!
Cindy Ecksol: ok.....
Cindy Ecksol: just realized we're off into another world -- let's finish the meeting and continue this discussion after
Pip Torok: but then how democratic is Caledon?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and on a side-note: http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2008/12/26/d ... companies/)
Cindy Ecksol: any other annoucements?
Micael Khandr: move to adjourn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry for so much self-promotion
Pip Torok: so move
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Micael
Cindy Ecksol: thank you micael and pip and gwyn
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Cindy Ecksol: ?
Micael Khandr: Aye
Pip Torok: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Cindy Ecksol: excellent -- we are adjourned