RA Meeting 10 January 2010: Transcript

[Cindy Ecksol]

Meeting on 2010-01-10
Soro Dagostino: Hello Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi Soro
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... and hi everybody really lol
Sonja Strom: Hi Gwyn and Pip
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sonja Strom: Hi Jamie
Jamie Palisades smiles, waves, Good morning - virtually anyway
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And here comes Jamie... hi Mr Chancellor!
Micael Khandr: Good day, all!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi Arria
Jamie Palisades smiles. So, if we have not started official yet, has anyone seen a final candidated list or something. from the SC?
Arria Perreault: Hi Gwyn
Jamie Palisades: I've not
Arria Perreault: Hi everybody
Gwyneth Llewelyn mumbles that she hasn't seen anything.
Jamie Palisades: Arria, the new exhibit's lovely, I finally got there to look
Arria Perreault: Thank you, Jamie
Sonja Strom: Hi Arria
Arria Perreault: Hi SOnja
Sonja Strom:
Jamie Palisades looks at his friends list stuff - now, was this the day we weren't sure if Cindy was able to attend?
Arria Perreault: who is the LRA pro tempore ?
Jamie Palisades: Soro
Gwyneth Llewelyn counts
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm 6
Jamie Palisades: of 11? well, that's 50%+1
Soro Dagostino: Has anyone heard from Cindy?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, yes, we've got a quorum, if Soro is so kind to do the honours....
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I haven't... let me check email
Jamie Palisades: I have a faint memory that Cindy expresssed doubt, at the end of the last mtg, about being here on time, this week, for RL reasons
Soro Dagostino: If I recall, this meeting is being held regarding the two matters athat were tabled -- or, mor specifically, specially set.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The last mail I had from Cindy was:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: "Please let me know if you have any additional items for the final RA meeting of the term. Right now it looks like I will probably be able to attend the meeting, but if not, Soro will be there to chair."
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but that was for Jan 3
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well...
Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm, the agenda for the 3rd is in the amphora
Gwyneth Llewelyn: since we *do* have a quorum
Pip Torok: asa far as i understand .. this meeting is an overflow to Jan 3rd
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly,
Jamie Palisades: don't think a new agenda was offered anyway
Gwyneth Llewelyn: namely on the issue of changing the elections
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and agrees
Micael Khandr: Yes
Soro Dagostino: [Groan]
Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: poor Soro
Pip Torok: hi Stui!
Sonja Strom: hello Stui
Jamie Palisades: Morning STui
Soro Dagostino has indicated consent to be recorded.
Arria Perreault: I have seen there is a new faction, SEED
Arria Perreault: Hi Stui
StuiChicanne Darkstone: never Fear
StuiChicanne Darkstone: **'`*`'** Stui **'`*`'**
StuiChicanne Darkstone: is here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, hi Stui
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol
Pip Torok: a sort of "antifaction-faction ....
Soro Dagostino: As the Deputy LRA -- I call the meeting to order.
Arria Perreault: Carolyn is candidate
Jamie Palisades smiles. As opposed to pro faction factions?
Soro Dagostino: Please note your consent to recordation.
Jamie Palisades has indicated consent to be recorded.
Arria Perreault has indicated consent to be recorded.
StuiChicanne Darkstone has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn consents to being recorded.
Jamie Palisades touches black box, which seems to do it still
Pip Torok: (the recorders on i think)
Gwyneth Llewelyn did that too hehe
Jamie Palisades: yup
Arria Perreault: it works
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *kicks the recorder*
Micael Khandr has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it does... I wonder if it's on since last week?!
Sonja Strom: Hi Rose
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'm here too
Rose Springvale: hello everyone.
Pip Torok: hi Rose
Arria Perreault: Hi Rose
Gwyneth Llewelyn: good morning, Rose
Micael Khandr: G'day
Rose Springvale: shall i send a notice?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, flower girl
Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
Jamie Palisades: please
Pip Torok: weve got a quorum thanks Rose!:)
StuiChicanne Darkstone: yes we need a notice
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, citizens are welcome to know we're in session and come too
Soro Dagostino: Welcome
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I didn't realise that the meeting was happening
StuiChicanne Darkstone: therefore
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and agrees with Stui
StuiChicanne Darkstone: there may be others that would have attended had they known
Pip Torok: (oh yes, theyre who we're here fo!:)
Soro Dagostino: The Agenda is as published for the 3rd.
Soro Dagostino: Any additions or corrections.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: after all I arrived on account of speaking to Mr Khandr
Jamie Palisades: Soro?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'm one for Soro !
Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
Jamie Palisades: We might add any announcements, to the end, as we hadthat for the 3rd but there may be a few more now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, aye, good point.
Soro Dagostino: Yes.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: YAY
StuiChicanne Darkstone: announcements
Gwyneth Llewelyn moves to add announcements for the agenda for today
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Stui
Pip Torok: seconds
StuiChicanne Darkstone: who's getting married ?
Rose Springvale: ?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'll be priest
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Joaquin Gustav: hello
StuiChicanne Darkstone: JO !
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi, Joaquin!
Joaquin Gustav: hello friends
Pip Torok: hi joaquin
Rose Springvale: Hi Joaquin
Micael Khandr: G'day!
Sonja Strom: Hi Joaquin
Rose Springvale: hey Tor!
StuiChicanne Darkstone: JO !
Pip Torok: ah micael ... hi
Tor Karlsvalt: hi rose
Rose Springvale smiles at my next potential vic..er citizen...
Sonja Strom: welcome Tor
Tor Karlsvalt: thanks Sonja
StuiChicanne Darkstone: oh and thankyou all for your attendance on Wednesday
StuiChicanne Darkstone: STH is building an audience
Soro Dagostino: Sorry, some lag
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Rose Springvale: Stui, did you want me to post that transcript or no?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: yea
Micael Khandr: Hi, Pip
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (a pity I have an overlapping thing on Wednesday, Stui, I'd love to be around too... )
StuiChicanne Darkstone: the people need to know what the people are thinking
Rose Springvale: okay, sorry, will do so today
Soro Dagostino: This is the last meeting of the term?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Technically, I think so...
Jamie Palisades: Last scheduled one, I think
StuiChicanne Darkstone: STH is making the grid grind to a halt
Pip Torok: i think so, Soro
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Stui!
Soro Dagostino: Who knows when we meet again
Rose Springvale: technically time for one more
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah!
StuiChicanne Darkstone: We'll meet again don't know where
StuiChicanne Darkstone: don't know when...
Rose Springvale: just lame duck sessions though, and traditionally RA has not met for those
StuiChicanne Darkstone: but I know we'll meet again some sunny day !
Pip Torok: (sounds like the 3 witches, Soro!)
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I missed my calling
Soro Dagostino: I have had no notice to any 7 day votes -- for the record.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I was about 40 years too late to be Vera Lynn
Jamie Palisades: Well I hope I do know where. The Thermae.
Soro Dagostino: Mr. Chancellor -- do you have a report?
Pip Torok: hear hear, Jamie
Jamie Palisades: Certainly, and thanks
Jamie Palisades: a few items then let me yield to Rose for any other announcements
Soro Dagostino: Yes
Soro Dagostino: brb
Jamie Palisades: First, be aware, we have a fair amount of land, particularly in Locus Ameonus, open now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Jamie Palisades smiles. I may write a few words for the benefit of the next RA's planning on how , in my view, it got that way
Jamie Palisades: but for now, suffice to say, Rose and I still are in office this monht, and working to fill it up
Sonja Strom: Welcome Sterling, Jeroma
Jamie Palisades: And all help is appreciated, so send prospects out way please - or show them yourself
Pip Torok: hi Sterling!
Jamie Palisades: thhat was item 1
Jamie Palisades: item 2
Jamie Palisades: I have a few pending land actions that I must take, basefd on requests or complaints, and I;ve been *very* slow in SL the last month.
Pip Torok: Hi Jeroma
Jeroma Wycliffe: Pip
Jamie Palisades: My apologies - RL just gets busy at times - but be aware there will be a few actions and zoning items
Jamie Palisades: item 3
Jamie Palisades: i have usually, from the executive branch, taken the following roles in the RA election
Jamie Palisades: - bugging the SC to make sure the poll devices and such are in place, and announced
Jamie Palisades: heh
Jamie Palisades: - dealing with election signs/zoing, plaza placement
Jamie Palisades: *zoning
Jamie Palisades: so, FWIW, I am still doing that this time
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jamie Palisades: I expect I also will be unofficially agitated for a return of our Thermae hang out, if a results time for the polls can be coaxed out of the SC
Jamie Palisades:
Jamie Palisades: For newer people, that's an old CDS election tradition
Jamie Palisades: .. OK, let me yield to Rose
Rose Springvale: (Thanks Jamie
Rose Springvale: I don't have much to add... New land available cards are out now
Rose Springvale: you can get them from me, or from group notices. I will put them in such of the info signs as i have perms to as well
Rose Springvale: I'd like to reiterate one thing Jamie said... and that is i'd really appreciate others helping us sell our land...
Rose Springvale: you all have contacts that might be interested, just takes a little time to explain:)
Rose Springvale: As for the election, we will be scheduling two events
Rose Springvale: one an informal meet & greet, which i expect to happen this week
Rose Springvale: and two, formal debates, which i've asked Aliasi to designate a moderator for.
Rose Springvale: Jamie or i are happy to moderate, and have in the past, but also SC members have successfully handled this,
Rose Springvale: i'm hoping that debate can happen next weekend, to give voters as much information early in the election as possible
Rose Springvale: The informal election result party ...well we only have a day between polls closing and the new term starting, so hopefully the sc can count quickly
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Rose Springvale: and then we'll have an inaugural ball early in the new term.
Rose Springvale: Anything else i should speak to Jamie?
Rose Springvale: questions?
Jamie Palisades smiles,
Jamie Palisades: I don;t think so Rose
Soro Dagostino: Any questions?
Jamie Palisades: FWIW, my first inclination was to see if Delia is available for the debate again
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, that would be nice...
Jamie Palisades: she did well and is quite neutral, I though
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees.
Jamie Palisades: I was neutral once
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Soro Dagostino: Jamie do you have more.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ?
Jamie Palisades: But hey, now that my own view is that the factions should not own the RA
Jamie Palisades: heh heh
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I like Delia
Jamie Palisades: Good, she was generally acceptable before, I will inquire
Jamie Palisades: OK
Soro Dagostino: Jamie are you through?
Jamie Palisades: - my last item, then let me ask for questions. Rose mentione dnot being able to get perms for some of the info gadgets. We've not done as well as I hoped, making them GENERALLY usable. One thing that she and I are doing with this last few weeks of the term is looking into some device changes. Among other things, as Gwyneth noted 2 months ago, the main wwww.slcds.infoportal is weak for our needs. I suggest that members go look at http://winterfell.ning.com as an instance of something much easier -- and much less top-down-techie-controlled. I am experimenting with it now, and may have some more to offer as a beta.
Arria Perreault: I have chacked my access to the portal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh yes. I think that the only thread I read (not commented) on the forums recently was Rose pretty much suggesting a move to Ning...
Arria Perreault: it works. So it is not a problem to useit
Gwyneth Llewelyn wonders if we could upload all the forum posts to it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Possibly, yes
Arria Perreault: a lot of work has been invested in this portal and there are a lot of informations already there
Rose Springvale: smiles, hate to start too fresh...
Jamie Palisades: hmmmm - genericalluy those systems tend to be friendly to imports and hostile to exports, Gwyn, but phpBB has CSV export I think
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If not, I think I might be able to force it to do that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, it would be worth a test, right?...
Rose Springvale: may i say something?
Soro Dagostino: Cindy will soon be here.
Arria Perreault: is it only for the portal or for all information, including portal?
Soro Dagostino: Yes Rose
Arria Perreault: portal is our visiting card
Jamie Palisades: Arria, our experience has been that while the system is very pretty, non-CMS /non-web professionals do not find it an easy place to contribute. Of course, this will be a question for next term's leaders and RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's mostly an executive decision... unless a new budget needs to be approved...
Soro Dagostino: Rose has the floor\
Arria Perreault: yes, too early to decide now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops, sorry Soro ? and sorry Rose
Soro Dagostino: Hello Cindy
Rose Springvale: The portal has not been updated, as far as i can see, for over six months.
Cindy Ecksol wavew hello and sorry to be late
Arria Perreault: I am willing to work on the portal
Arria Perreault: just ask
Rose Springvale: we have 7 sims with no evidence of existence at all
Arria Perreault: I will add pages for the news sims
Keila Forager: I'll bet for longer...
Rose Springvale: So when i show a new or potentially new citizen our portal... they get very confused
Rose Springvale: also
Arria Perreault: I thought Brian was member of the PIO team
Rose Springvale: when new people DO join us
Keila Forager: hard to navigate and quite a bit of info not accessable
Rose Springvale: the registration process.. no offense to anyone... generally takes tow or three tries
Rose Springvale: two*
Keila Forager: or incorrect
Cindy Ecksol has indicated consent to be recorded.
Rose Springvale: so there is a chilling effect on new people to come back
Arria Perreault: there are two systems, forums and portal
Rose Springvale: please Arria
Arria Perreault: please don't make a confusion betwenn these two systems
Rose Springvale: i'm not arguing.. i'm reporting observations.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: nothing more annoying than things that don't work
Arria Perreault: I am willing to update
Rose Springvale: the portal is TOTALLY un interactive
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *kicks the recorder*
Rose Springvale: its just a nice tombstone
Arria Perreault: the portal give informations
Pip Torok: does the "question" system work?
Arria Perreault: like laws, lands, citizen lists
Rose Springvale: we need places where people can post land for sale, events, information
Soro Dagostino: While the chair is willing to allow a certain amout of discussion.
Arria Perreault: forums is the place to discuss
Rose Springvale: sigh
Keila Forager: Not good information Arria...I tried to read it when I became a citizen
Soro Dagostino: Its time to get in order.
Rose Springvale: thanks for giving me time soro.
Arria Perreault: we have a google calender already
Jamie Palisades: Thank you for that, all of you. As Arria said, this will not be finally decided until next term. Soro, colleagues, for now my only interest was to raise the issue for informal views and an eye to a test -- (of NING), in which these good folks will be important test subjects
Jamie Palisades: and we're done with our report
Pip Torok: may i make a suggestion, Mr LRA?
Soro Dagostino: Pip?
Arria Perreault: I have made an advice in he forum too
Soro Dagostino: Pip you have the floor
Pip Torok: i suggest that the person concernwed give someone (me?) a list of new citizens ... and i run a party every month for them
Soro Dagostino:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay Pip
Soro Dagostino: woot!
Sonja Strom:
Pip Torok: but i wd NEED a list of current new citizens!!
Cindy Ecksol smiles
Soro Dagostino: Now, back to the order of things.
Pip Torok: without it it just wdnt work
Jamie Palisades grins -- more on that in the forums. We are trying to get our new widgets to do exactly that
Arria Perreault: anyway the forum has to be independant from Exec (for the record)
Jamie Palisades: even though severa; stakeholders hgavce strong (and differenmt) opinions about whose software ought to run everything
Jamie Palisades: Arria? Forum is run by SC
StuiChicanne Darkstone: one for Soro
StuiChicanne Darkstone: can I say something ?
Soro Dagostino: Stui -- you may
StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I have been a CDS member since the merger and or the benefit of pointing out the importance of the issue - I dunno what the hell the portal is
StuiChicanne Darkstone: therefore it can't be doing it's job can it ?
Pip Torok: 9and i'd point them at the portal in the party, Stui!)
Jamie Palisades chuckles. Proof that no orientation, even when repeated, will make all citizens pay attention to the stuff we point them to
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *sits on the book again*
Soro Dagostino: Can this be taken to a working party?
Rose Springvale: stui, you have been given the information
StuiChicanne Darkstone: oh
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *LOL*
StuiChicanne Darkstone: but what's the portal ?
Rose Springvale: website for cds
Jamie Palisades: ooo good one, Pip< maybe we can have an open invite meeting about this party/info idea, sometime soon? Not really something that has to wait for election
StuiChicanne Darkstone: ah
Keila Forager: It's not doing it's job Stui..
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *LOL*
Pip Torok: its a sort of "help for new citizens" Stui...
Soro Dagostino: Are we done with this folk?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: like a cheat sheet ?
Joaquin Gustav: brb
Sonja Strom: Just to make it clear, this is the portal: http://portal.slcds.info
Keila Forager: But it doesn't Pip, I'm a new resident and it sucks!
Pip Torok: a bit more elaborate , but yes
Jamie Palisades: psst - take it to a brainstorming session

(continued)

[Cindy Ecksol]

(continued)

Pip Torok: lets have your crits keila!
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Keila Forager: Give me some time and I can give you specifics...not enough time here..
Arria Perreault: http://portal.slcds.info/
Pip Torok: kk
Arria Perreault: http://portal.slcds.info/
Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
Rose Springvale: yes i agree, there are others who want to weigh in on this.. . maybe a committee?
Keila Forager: I write them out in a notecard for you this week..
Keila Forager: not opinion, but facts
Pip Torok: tks ;-]
Jamie Palisades: koff koff - agenda
Keila Forager: unless you change it by then
Soro Dagostino: Working party . . . Rose, Pip, Keila, and Arria?
Pip Torok: fine by me
Rose Springvale: just name a RA liasion, and we can work together
Jamie Palisades: Can Pip just convene a meeting? And add me, please
Arria Perreault: The executive was in charge to update this website
Soro Dagostino: So appointed. Keila is the chair, Jamie too.
Pip Torok: ok ...
Arria Perreault: Brian Livingstone has done this job for months
Jamie Palisades: if they can Arria, which was the point
Soro Dagostino: Gavel time.
Arria Perreault: I don't know what happen then
Soro Dagostino: Bang Bang!
Arria Perreault: maybe, Jamie, you can tell us
Soro Dagostino: Take it to the working party
Rose Springvale: hey Kami!
Kamilah Hauptmann: *mew*
Arria Perreault: it is under your responsibilty after all
Jamie Palisades waves at Kami, mutters - nice hat. Arria, let's do it in the breakout session
Arria Perreault: which breakout session?
Soro Dagostino: Next item -- Commerce Commission -- Stui
Arria Perreault: It was a too important work that we can stop it in one second
Jamie Palisades: ("working party" Arria)
Arria Perreault: the portal can be improved
Soro Dagostino: Arria -- we are moving on.
Arria Perreault: the CMS that is behind is very flexible
StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha I didn't plan for this eventuality I didn't realise that there was a meeting so there has been no progress
StuiChicanne Darkstone: thinking it's gonna be going into the next RA
Soro Dagostino: Questions for Stui?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: unless anyone has objections
Arria Perreault: as you always mention volunteering in the exec, this work was also volunteering of 3 people
Ariel Feden: sorry Pip
Pip Torok: ??
Ariel Feden: I was sitting on your lap
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Ariel sat on you Pippet
Pip Torok: oh!
Gwyneth Llewelyn has no objections ? I'm just curious to see what kind of recommendations the committee might be bringing up for the next RA
Arria Perreault: I will update this portal
Rose Springvale: At this point, i think the committee should take over
Gwyneth Llewelyn: shh Rose lol
Arria Perreault: who is in this comittee?
Jamie Palisades: aim your shushes where they will help, dear Gwyn
Soro Dagostino: Look at the appointments.
Soro Dagostino: Up the chat log.
Rose Springvale: i don't think it makes sense to try to update now... lets get feedback and work with our citizens
Arria Perreault: I will update
Jamie Palisades: ** may i ask the chair on what agenda item the meeting currently sits?
Rose Springvale welcomes ariel
Soro Dagostino: Any more Stui?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Sorry I have hydrogen peroxide itch
StuiChicanne Darkstone: finding it hard to type
Keila Forager: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Stui!!!!!
Soro Dagostino: Are you done Stui?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: no I dont think so but I hope you like my new hair
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and say hello to Ariel
Arria Perreault: it is too easy to decide its death because it is not updated
StuiChicanne Darkstone: he's new
Soro Dagostino: Stlui?
Jamie Palisades hits the side of his head gently, to see if his eyes will uncross
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Ariel
Arria Perreault: I want to be in this committee
StuiChicanne Darkstone: yes one for Soro
Rose Springvale: sigh, you were appointed Arria.
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Soro have you said hello to Ariel ?
Soro Dagostino: Ok, now that Stui is finsihed -- Constitutional revision concerning factions.
Soro Dagostino: Who is the proponenet?
Cindy Ecksol: carolyn introduced the original proposal
StuiChicanne Darkstone: who isn't ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *LOL*
Micael Khandr: I think Caro was the original proponent
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Stui
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Caro would have been here
StuiChicanne Darkstone: but she didn't know about the meeting
Rose Springvale: smiles, its been introduced
Soro Dagostino: Who is to take her place as proponent.
Soro Dagostino: To speak to the issue.
Micael Khandr: I'm not sure I can speak to it . . .
Micael Khandr: but, the general idea is to eliminate requirements for factions in elections.
Soro Dagostino: Micael -- you have the floor.
Micael Khandr: Gee, thasnks . . .
StuiChicanne Darkstone: it was at discussion last week
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Go Khandr !
Micael Khandr: I think we discussed this last week, and the reason we are meeting today is to see if the idea of not requiring faction membership for running would be applied to this election
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Micael
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Rose Springvale raises hand
StuiChicanne Darkstone: that's correct !
Soro Dagostino: Rose
Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* after Rose
Soro Dagostino: Gwyn next
Rose Springvale: At my last count, there were 12 people standing for election this term.. though candidates are not all posted or availble
Soro Dagostino: Rose?
Rose Springvale: which is highly likely
Soro Dagostino: sry, slow keyboard
Rose Springvale: the system we have now, unless i can't do math
Micael Khandr: Rose, are all membes of a faction?
Rose Springvale: says we will elect 11 reps
Rose Springvale: but because of the faction system
Rose Springvale: we will most likely have reps elected who have not "run"... and some good people who have volunteered to serve CDS will not be elected
Rose Springvale: without a faction system, i believe that would be avoided.
Rose Springvale: done
Cindy Ecksol raises hand
Soro Dagostino: Thank you
Soro Dagostino: Gwyn?
Micael Khandr: And hat is why we want to overturn the requirement for faction membership in order to run . . .thank you.
Soro Dagostino: Cindy next in order.
Jamie Palisades raises hand and pokes giant question mark thing
Jamie Palisades: what about Gwyn?
Cindy Ecksol: thanks soro.
Pip Torok raises hand
Soro Dagostino: Mic next
Micael Khandr: You poked me in the head, Jamie . . .
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Cindy Ecksol: are we using the question mark?
Jamie Palisades: oooooops
Cindy Ecksol: if so can reset
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Please do, Cindy
Cindy Ecksol: but that wasn't my question...or comment
Micael Khandr: My head . . ?
Soro Dagostino: I am sorry, I can't read that divice.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah perfect
Jamie Palisades: well, Micael, it was even riskier when Stui was sitting on it ..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Cindy
Cindy Ecksol: ok, it's reset....
Soro Dagostino: Please raise hands.
Cindy Ecksol: my comment....
Micael Khandr: True . . .
Rose Springvale: gwyns turn yes?
Cindy Ecksol: I am not opposed to the idea of revising factions
Soro Dagostino: Yes
Cindy Ecksol: rules
Cindy Ecksol: sheesh, I thought I had th efloor? no?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok hmm... the only thing I really had against the proposed (and detailed) amendment changes last week,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: was about the replacements
Cindy Ecksol: soro?
Soro Dagostino: Cindy, your next
Cindy Ecksol: ok, thx.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie suggested that we do by-elections for them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I totally agree.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So... to recap... I'd be ready to vote on Jamie's proposed amendment,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: with the suggestion that replacements are handled (for now at least) with by-elections
Soro Dagostino: Gwyn -- are you making a motion to call the question?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and with that, I think we'd have a full proposal which could be a motion
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh ? sorry Sory
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *Soro
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes...
Arria Perreault: I second
Soro Dagostino: Who can state the question?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would like (with Jamie's permission) to propose Jamie's amendments with the by-election as replacements for the vote
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (let me just get the URL for the records...)
Cindy Ecksol wonders if we can have full text tplease.....
Jamie Palisades: no problem. Are we looking at a motion now to pass it, or a motion now to close debate?
Soro Dagostino: We should.
Cindy Ecksol and also wonders why we're proposing to close debate with a full queue?
Sterling Troughton has indicated consent to be recorded.
Soro Dagostino: I have no raised hands.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe I'll give you your turn, Cindy, because I'll take a bit to copy & paste
Cindy Ecksol: you have a full queue soro
Rose Springvale: jamie and cindy soro
Cindy Ecksol: including me....do I have th efloor?
Soro Dagostino: Gwyn do you yield to Cindy
Jamie Palisades smiles, keeps hand raises, but after Cin and Pip
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, Soro ? I'll take ttime assembkling bits and pieces
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no need to wait for me)
Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
Cindy Ecksol: ok, thanks gwyn
Soro Dagostino: Pip next
Cindy Ecksol: as I started to say, I'm not opposed to the idea of revising the way that factions are used in CDS.
Cindy Ecksol: however, I do not think that we are ready to pass this bill to apply to THIS election.
Pip Torok: i suggest the time is past to make any change to the coming elections, but to debate it throughout next term and get it right for the followiuing term
Cindy Ecksol: the details are not bullet-proofed, not even close.
Pip Torok: done
Cindy Ecksol: (not done yet)
Cindy Ecksol: so I would like to amend the proposed bill to apply to NEXT election.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *picks up gavel and bangs it a few times*
Cindy Ecksol: which will need a second of course.
Pip Torok: second
Rose Springvale raises hand
Cindy Ecksol: that will give us time to work out the details properly so there are no unintended consequences.
Soro Dagostino: Motion is seconded.
Micael Khandr: Point of clarification: to vote to change the faction rule, but have it take place next election? Is that it, Cindy?
Cindy Ecksol: thank you pip. and I am finished.
Soro Dagostino: Jamie has the floor
Jamie Palisades: thanks
Jamie Palisades: If I may, to address Cindy's full text question, i *believe* Gwyn's proposal is to enact the constitutional amendment at
http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... 029#p14029, posted 4 December 2009 - but with "Alternative 2" chosen in Article 1 Section 2 (for STV), and, for clarity, with the following new additional sentence at the end of that same section:
Cindy Ecksol: well, truthfully I think tha twe should defer the entire thing to next term. but there seems to be a majority to do it this term, so I would likek to see it apply NEXZT term
Jamie Palisades: oops : ) you, ah, not done, Cindy?
Cindy Ecksol: I was responding to Micael.
Cindy Ecksol: done now, thanks.
Micael Khandr: TY
Jamie Palisades smiles
Jamie Palisades: two things then
Soro Dagostino: Discussion on the delay?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hehe Jamie ? thanks ? yes, that's pretty much it, Alt 2 and the additional text"
Jamie Palisades: ,.. um, Soro, CIndy notwithstanding, do I have the floor?
Soro Dagostino: Yes.
Jamie Palisades: OK then
Jamie Palisades: two things
Jamie Palisades: first
Jamie Palisades: motion clarification
Jamie Palisades: see Gwyn & me above
Jamie Palisades: but ARt 1 sec 2 needs onbe mnore setence at the end, to be clear that its FIRST sentence
Jamie Palisades: also would apply to by-elections
Jamie Palisades: thus, to get that done:
Jamie Palisades: add: "Vacancies in RA positions will be filled by by-election administered on a schedule set by the Scientific Council consistent with other applicable CDS law.
Jamie Palisades: now
Jamie Palisades: second point
Jamie Palisades: which is (a) do it now?
Jamie Palisades: (b) do it now, but to apply starting next term (in 6 months)?
Jamie Palisades: (c) leave it for next RA
Soro Dagostino: Point of Order.
Jamie Palisades: Personally I rather like (a), and it's utterly legal for you to do so. Done thx
Jamie Palisades: mm? for me, Soro?
Soro Dagostino: I believe Cindy's Motion to by to delay approval to the next term
Soro Dagostino: That is the motion before the body.
Rose Springvale: so are we discussing that now?
Jamie Palisades: .. so we have motion Gwyn seconded Arria, amendment Cindy? OK, who seconded it? And I was just speaking against it
Soro Dagostino: That is before us.
Rose Springvale reiterates raised hand
Cindy Ecksol: actually my motion was to dealy IMPLEMANTTION of whatever we pass to next term,
Pip Torok: I seconded Cindy's
StuiChicanne Darkstone: shouldn't we be discussing the point more before voting on a motion to defer ?
Cindy Ecksol: so an amendment to....whatever it is that jamie said
Soro Dagostino: Not how I saw it.
Cindy Ecksol: (the actual proposal)
Cindy Ecksol: that is what I meant soro
Cindy Ecksol: consider this clarification
StuiChicanne Darkstone: how do people know what they are deferringif they have not fully discussed it ?
Cindy Ecksol: I am proposing to amend the proposal on the table to implement next term
Cindy Ecksol:
Cindy Ecksol: whatever we decide to pass, stui
Pip Torok: the idea is that we discuss it thoroughout the next term Stui ...
Micael Khandr: In other words, vote for it, if approved, defer it to next election.
Rose Springvale: sigh
Keila Forager pinches herself
Soro Dagostino: Rose?
Jamie Palisades: Soro? ruling? what's the motion to amend?
Rose Springvale: waiting for ruling on motion...
Soro Dagostino: The chair takes the motion to be one to table.
Jamie Palisades flinches - that wasn't YOUR leg Keila.
Rose Springvale: okay....
StuiChicanne Darkstone: can I ask soemthing ?
Rose Springvale: so do i have the floor?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *something ?
Keila Forager: Sorry
Soro Dagostino: Rose
Keila Forager: hehe
Soro Dagostino: That motion is non-debateble.
Rose Springvale: thank you. This RA has had some major issues presented to it this term
Rose Springvale: and each time, your decision has been well discussed, and often delayed in implementation
Rose Springvale: i'll point to the election calendar as an example
Rose Springvale: i'm concerned that the new RA will again want to discuss and discuss.
Jamie Palisades: hee hee he just told you that you can't speak - but the tabel motion will lose, likely
Rose Springvale: i'm concerned that in this experiment, we are so afraid to Try anything
Soro Dagostino: Thank you rose.
Jamie Palisades: soro? sorry but - are we debating the nondebatable?
Rose Springvale: he recognized me twice before i began speaking
Soro Dagostino: You are now out of order.
Rose Springvale: wonderful, always wanted to be
Soro Dagostino: The question is to table.
Soro Dagostino:
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I want to say something
Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and I'll say it either way
Cindy Ecksol: table to next term soro?
Micael Khandr: Nay
StuiChicanne Darkstone: out of order or not I can still type
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
Cindy Ecksol: I vote "aye" to that
Pip Torok: abstain
Rose Springvale: sigh
Soro Dagostino: BAngs gavel on Stue's head
Cindy Ecksol: (but not sure we really have a motion and second)
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I will say that it'd be really stupid to vote now
StuiChicanne Darkstone: on account that this meeting was called
Jamie Palisades: Try for something less solid, Soro
Pip Torok agrees
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and I myself said I had no notion of it
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and nor did the proponent of this
StuiChicanne Darkstone: therefore you are not getting an accurate vote
Soro Dagostino: Please -- the motion to table has precedent.
Soro Dagostino: We need to get back to the discussion.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I don't care about the precedent
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I speak about logic
Ariel Feden: can you repeat the motion under vote?
Soro Dagostino: Vote please on the motion to table.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: nay!
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and common sense
Micael Khandr: nay
Pip Torok: abstain
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think everyone knows my vote
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I would like to know Caro's tho
StuiChicanne Darkstone: if it's ok with everyone
StuiChicanne Darkstone: seeing as she is the proponent
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and isn't h
Jamie Palisades: ((Arria - vote yes to table = no action. Vote no = maybe action on this item at this meeting))
StuiChicanne Darkstone: here
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I wonder how that happened ?
Soro Dagostino: Two aye, two nay
Jamie Palisades: Think about that next time you pick an LRA, Stui
Soro Dagostino: Anyone else
Arria Perreault: I can vote
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Soro
Soro Dagostino: Yes.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: where is Caro ?
Keila Forager: I don't have a vote, but seems like there is way to much procrastination
Cindy Ecksol: jamie, that was uncalled for! Caro was the one who volunteered to introduce. I had nothing to do with it.
Soro Dagostino: Order please.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: can I ask something before I vote ?
Rose Springvale: caro may not be a rep next term
Rose Springvale: not fair to continue to delay with excuses, you all know she supports it
Soro Dagostino: Arria -- your vote?
Arria Perreault: nay
Soro Dagostino: Stui?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: well is caro assumed as a supporter of factionless RA ?
Rose Springvale: she is the leader of SEED
Soro Dagostino: I would think so.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: therefore even in absence her vote can stand ?
Rose Springvale: that is their only agenda
StuiChicanne Darkstone: as we know how she would vote on this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe voting by proxy is not allowed in the RA...
Gwyneth Llewelyn: not yet at least!
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and as she couldn't attend I would pass a motion to have her vote added
StuiChicanne Darkstone: we all know what it would be
Jamie Palisades: um, sir, aren't we in the middle of finishing a failing (2-3) vote to table? Stui, we can't count her vote if she's not here

(continued)

[Cindy Ecksol]

(continued)

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don't think that's constitutional... the SC might have an issue with that, deem the vote irregular, and revert the decision
Jamie Palisades: yup
Pip Torok agrees with Gwyn
StuiChicanne Darkstone: ok
Cindy Ecksol notes that this is a procedural vote that would not be subject to 7 day voting anyway
Jamie Palisades: Gwyn you and I are agreeing entierly too much. It might affect the weather
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I vote NAY !
Jamie Palisades: 2-4
Soro Dagostino: Chair votes nay.
Soro Dagostino: Motion carried.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and I'll be the spirit of CAro !
Jamie Palisades: eh?
Soro Dagostino: Back to the main motion as amended
Rose Springvale: faild i think
Micael Khandr: not carried
Sonja Strom votes nay
Pip Torok: nay
Soro Dagostino: Sorry, yes -- Motion to table failed.
Ariel Feden: lol - phew
Micael Khandr: I suggest two motions:
The first, all the things Jamie and Gwyn wrote earlier, and for this election.
If that passes, we are off and running.
If not, I propose the same thing, but deferred until next election.
Rose Springvale: please restate what you are voting on
Countdown Timer V3.0: only the owner can use this object
Countdown Timer V3.0: only the owner can use this object
Gwyneth Llewelyn: clever, Micael hehe
Soro Dagostino: The proposal was logged above.
Soro Dagostino: Jamie would you restate?
Jamie Palisades: sure
Jamie Palisades: four points
Jamie Palisades: 1. main body of text here:
Gwyneth Llewelyn does apologise, but copying "orange" and "bold" from the forums into a notecard is not fast!
Jamie Palisades: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... 029#p14029
Jamie Palisades: with the orange text being DELETED
Jamie Palisades: and the NEW text - the amendment itself - being BOLD
Jamie Palisades: as the post shows the WHOLE constitution
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Jamie Palisades: but the proposed action is on the amends and deletes
Jamie Palisades: 2. One selection of an alternative
Jamie Palisades: in art 1 sec 2
Jamie Palisades: "Alt 2"
Jamie Palisades: which uses STV, a system a bit more friendly to minority voters
Jamie Palisades: 3. One added setence
Jamie Palisades: at end of art 1 sec 2
Jamie Palisades: "Vacancies in RA positions will be filled by by-election administered on a schedule set by the Scientific Council consistent with other applicable CDS law."
Jamie Palisades: 4. I note that, at present, this would take effect immediately.
Jamie Palisades: done thanks
Rose Springvale: for people who are new here, we usually have this on notecard... apologies
Soro Dagostino: Point of Order . . .
Jamie Palisades raises eyebrow?
Soro Dagostino: The amendment is to have it take effect next term.
Rose Springvale: that was voted down
Soro Dagostino: Or to be immediate?
Soro Dagostino: Not to my recall. The motion to table was voted down.
Cindy Ecksol raises hand because cannot get to ?
Soro Dagostino: There was a friendly amendment to vote now, take effect the next following term.
Rose Springvale sits on hands ...
Soro Dagostino: Cindy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: To my recall, we haven't voted on the amendment to have this enter in effect in 6 months ? but we can do that
Jamie Palisades: is it? Sorry, did not hear that raised. Resctfully disagree with th chair. Gwyn moved mmediate. You turned Cindy's amendment into a tabling motion. No other amendments offerede. Main motion is up now. It was Micael's suggestion that you proceed to a vote.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I moved immediate, yes. We can vote to amend it not to be immediate.
Cindy Ecksol: ah, gwyn said what I was going to say: I made a motioj (seconded by pip) that we amend the proposal to take effect next term
Rose Springvale agrees with jamie and gwyn
Micael Khandr: Yes
Rose Springvale and blames them for the ice on my palm trees
Cindy Ecksol: believe that is still on the table
Jamie Palisades: Maybe Cindy should offer her *second* delay proposal now, afresh, as an amendment? Unless someone moves to close debate
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl Rose
Arria Perreault: I hope it s too
Soro Dagostino: Is there such a Motion?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: YAY for factionless RA !
Cindy Ecksol: ok, for the record I propose that we amend the current bill to take effect immediately followiing the election
Micael Khandr: I think it would serve our decision making better if we voted to see if we wanted to do it now, rather than pre-empt that vote by saying next term first.
Micael Khandr: So our motion is to do it now?
Soro Dagostino: Yes
Rose Springvale: yay!!
Micael Khandr: for this election?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Jamie Palisades: (not if cindy gets a second)
Soro Dagostino: Yes
StuiChicanne Darkstone: do it now
Soro Dagostino: True
Micael Khandr: Call the vote
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, like Jamie said.
Cindy Ecksol: wait!
Cindy Ecksol: out of order, soro!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cindy GOT a second btw.
Cindy Ecksol: my amendment was seconded by pip!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It was.
Pip Torok: right
Cindy Ecksol: need to vote on it before voting on the whold thing
Jamie Palisades: the table one, or the next term one? OK, then vote on it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we have to vote on Cindys amendment
Cindy Ecksol: either we will amend...and then pass for next term
Micael Khandr: Would you withdraw your second, Pip?
Rose Springvale: she could withdraw
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *talks to pippet quietly*
Cindy Ecksol: or amendment will fail, and we will vote for this term
Pip Torok: no
Micael Khandr: OK
Soro Dagostino: Order please.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *bats eyelids*
Pip Torok: ah ... then i withdraw second
Soro Dagostino: The amendment dies?
Cindy Ecksol: then I withdraw my amendment
Micael Khandr: Whew . . thanks
Cindy Ecksol: for lack of a second
Soro Dagostino: Now to the main motion.
Cindy Ecksol: (you will not thank me six months from now micael )
Micael Khandr: call the vote
Jeroma Wycliffe practices batting his eyelids
Soro Dagostino: The question has been called.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: yay for batting eyelids
Rose Springvale will hold lessons after meeting. its 'fluttering" you southern belles
Soro Dagostino: The vote is to adopt for immediate effect.
Cindy Ecksol: (voting to do this NOW will violate existing constitution)
Rose Springvale: it amends, not violates.
Cindy Ecksol: both
Pip Torok agrees that micael will not thank Cindy in 6 monthe
Cindy Ecksol: you can't interrupt a process that is already in process....
Rose Springvale: discussion over, question called
Jamie Palisades: all changes to a constitution violate the old one, by definition
Soro Dagostino: Call the vote . .
Cindy Ecksol: and change the rules of the game
Micael Khandr: I tend to give thanks liberally . . .
Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
Micael Khandr: Aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles @ Jamie. We've been there before...
Cindy Ecksol: nay
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and aye
Pip Torok: nay
StuiChicanne Darkstone: AYE AYE CAPT SORO
Sonja Strom: nay
Cindy Ecksol notes that we need a supermajority....
Micael Khandr: We are all super, Cindy . . .
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *holds up a caro puppet*
Micael Khandr: Ha!
Jamie Palisades: no need, STui, we have rules for absent members
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I miss Caro
StuiChicanne Darkstone: she's like me
Jamie Palisades: I miss orderly meeting
Soro Dagostino: Chair votes aye.
Arria Perreault: nay
Soro Dagostino: the motion fails.
Micael Khandr: I move that Jamie and Gwyn?s previous motion go into effect for the next election.
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
Soro Dagostino: Is there a second?
Pip Torok: "next election"?
Micael Khandr: The one after the one coming up
Pip Torok: motion is unclear!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, I second that, Micael... I thought that motion was on the table already. Yes, let's amend it to "into effect in 6 months"
Arria Perreault: in JUly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, July
Micael Khandr: TY
Micael Khandr: July it is!
Soro Dagostino: Do I have a Second?
Gwyneth Llewelyn points to her own words
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, you do, Mr Pro Tem LRA
Micael Khandr: Gwyn has seconded
Jamie Palisades: If you want to go there, suggest that the effective date be one day before the census date of the second general election in 2010.
Soro Dagostino: Oh, Gwyn did . . .
Soro Dagostino: Is that amendment accepted?
Gwyneth Llewelyn proposes to add Jamie's suggestion to the motion as a friendly amendment
Micael Khandr: Yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good
Soro Dagostino: Ready for the question?
Micael Khandr: Yes
Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
Micael Khandr: aye
Cindy Ecksol: nay
Sonja Strom: nay
Pip Torok: nay
StuiChicanne Darkstone: AYE AYE AYE AYE
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Arria Perreault: do we vote on the motion now?
Soro Dagostino: Yes
Jamie Palisades: eh? I thought that was the second Khandr motion
Arria Perreault: nay
Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
Jamie Palisades: which, with four votes, would fail as Constl Amdts require 8. Am I on wrong page here?
Soro Dagostino: My understanding -- is that this vote is to change the constitution effective now, and setting the time for operation at the day before the next census?
Micael Khandr: Correct
Jamie Palisades: Yes - and would require less than 4 nay votes to pass
Cindy Ecksol: what???
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, well, unless amended... 6 months is a lot of time. And I believe Jamie is correct
Pip Torok doesnt agree with Jamie
Cindy Ecksol is now not sure what she voted on...
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Rose Springvale: because now we have true faction action. i'm sure the people represented by those nay votes will be happy, i just dont' know who they are
Soro Dagostino: Ok, Chair rules a revote is in order.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) We voted on the constitution amendment to remove factions. No "time limit" has been set, so it becomes law as soon as the SC ratifies it (e.g. "immediately")
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then 2) We voted on the same constitutional amendment, but entering into effect on the July 2010 elections.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That also failed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is that right?
Soro Dagostino: I don't believe all knew what the question before the body was.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oops
Micael Khandr: and the firendly amendment was to have it go into effect after the current election, correct?
Sonja Strom: Gwyneth, that is my understanding.
Soro Dagostino: Yes.
Micael Khandr: friendly . .
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the constitution itself would have been changed immediately (after teh SC ratifies it). It would only affect the July 2010 elections though.
Micael Khandr: That is it, then!
Micael Khandr: Perhaps a re-vote, just to clarify what it is?
Arria Perreault: yesss
Arria Perreault: please tell clearly about what we vote
Soro Dagostino: That is what the Chiar has ruled.
Rose Springvale: smiles. remember that the factions here represent, if anyone, less than 1/3 of the CDS population when you vote
Arria Perreault: write the texte
Arria Perreault: yes, thank you Soro
Arria Perreault: it's so in RL, Rose
Micael Khandr: Does Jamie or Gwyn have a cut-and-pasted version?
Arria Perreault: and nobody sais it is undemocratic
Rose Springvale: not wher i live, and we are supposed to be doing better here
Soro Dagostino: The text is as was posted by Jamie -- with the amendment to have the new law take effect the day before the July election Census.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wish I did, Micael ? but it's not easy to change the bold/orange text into curly braces and bracketed braces to have it on a notecard
Sonja Strom thinks "members" and "represented" are two different things.
Micael Khandr: Yes, sorry . . .
Jamie Palisades: I do say it is undemocratic, Arria Just for the record. Many timers
Cindy Ecksol: sorry, soro, I idid not understand that....
Cindy Ecksol: thought we were still voting on "this term"
Rose Springvale: i think it is self preservation and manipulation, but Rose wouldn't say anything so strong
Soro Dagostino: No.
Micael Khandr: OK, so I call for (another) vote.
Cindy Ecksol: *sigh*
Gwyneth Llewelyn notices that Sonja is quite right hehe ? but we digress, we could discuss if the RA also represents people that haven't voted on the previous elections (e.g. abstentions) or not... nice philosophical discussion
Jamie Palisades: Soro - you just ruled *something*? Like Cindy, I missed it
Kamilah Hauptmann prefers the Star Chamber approach to governance.
Cindy Ecksol: OOOOOKKKKKKKK.....
Gwyneth Llewelyn grins @ Kamilah
Soro Dagostino: Order please
Cindy Ecksol: can we have the vote called clearly please? and vote clearly?
Arria Perreault: I propose that we vote about the proposal of Jamie, that would comes in force in July 2010 for the next election and with a replacement of leaving RA members with by-election
Micael Khandr: "this term" failed, Cindy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I second Arria's motion. I believe there is no problem in calling the same motion twice
Arria Perreault: ty
Soro Dagostino: Not per my ruling.
Jamie Palisades: hm. Arria, maybe Gwyneth can check that, but I believe that IS the same motion in substance as the one that Michael was proposing, now that we are clear. not a problem, just a clarification
Micael Khandr: Yes
Arria Perreault: Soro has said we revote
Soro Dagostino: Are you ready to vote?
Cindy Ecksol: call the vote soro
Soro Dagostino: Everyone have it in mind?
Arria Perreault: I am proposing something clear to vote
Jamie Palisades nods
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Jamie,it's pretty much the same motion. But, as said, I don't think there is anything forbidding that
Micael Khandr: Ouch
Sonja Strom: So, to clarify, an "aye" vote woud be in favour of changing the constitution... (?)
Jamie Palisades: yes, but effective next term
Soro Dagostino: Yes.
Cindy Ecksol: specifically day before census.
Arria Perreault: and by-election?
Jamie Palisades: yes
Cindy Ecksol: what's this about "by election"?
Soro Dagostino: That is my understanding.
Jamie Palisades: (the sentence i added, CIn, earlier this meeting)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, CIndy ? it's how members are replaced
Arria Perreault: Gwyn's first motion
Soro Dagostino: She wasn't here then.
Arria Perreault: that passed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, see my mumbling and grumbling last session. With a faction-less system, how do you make sure that the citizen's votes are preserved when a member leaves?
Soro Dagostino: As an amendment -- friendly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie proposed, quite simply, that we get by-elections
Gwyneth Llewelyn: just for that single chair
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it worked well in the past, so, well, why not
Jamie Palisades: all clear? Y'all gonna vote?
Gwyneth Llewelyn is clear and happy to vote
Soro Dagostino: Call for votes
Micael Khandr: clear!
Soro Dagostino: All in favor.
Micael Khandr: AYE!
Keila Forager will start singing soon ...lalallalalalallalalalala
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Sonja Strom: nay
StuiChicanne Darkstone: AYE !
Arria Perreault: aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: AYE !
StuiChicanne Darkstone: AYE !
Rose Springvale: stui lol
Jamie Palisades: dd 16
Jamie Palisades: dd 0
Jamie Palisades: dd 24
Jamie Palisades: dd 16
Jamie Palisades: dd 32
Arria Perreault: your vote counts only once
Jamie Palisades: dd 24
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Keila Forager: Spamming Jamie...lol
Soro Dagostino: Chair votes aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: he's interfering with the vote ))))
Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
Micael Khandr: 6-1?
Soro Dagostino: 7 ayes, 2 nays
Micael Khandr: 7-2!
Micael Khandr:
StuiChicanne Darkstone: YAY !
Soro Dagostino: Motion carries.
Rose Springvale: wait
Rose Springvale: do we need 8?
Cindy Ecksol: is 7 enough for constituional amendment?
Keila Forager: LOL
Cindy Ecksol: think we need 8
Pip Torok: 2 nays? i saw only 1
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We do need 2/3 of 11
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I just say one nay too
Jamie Palisades: That's why there are 7 day votes, ladies and gentlemen
Micael Khandr: I think only 1 nay
Keila Forager: I say aye
Keila Forager: hehe
Pip Torok: soro ... its one nay imho
Jamie Palisades: May I rise to a point of order?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *pokes people for Aye's*
Soro Dagostino: The Chair will first say that he was in error -- there was only one nay.
Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
Jamie Palisades: Soro, to know the next steps here, it would be helpful to have a ruling or statement on two things
Arria Perreault: I think we have tried enough on this topic
Jamie Palisades: 1. Do 7 day votes not apply? (I assume so and thus that Caro can get her vote in)
Rose Springvale: joaquin at least as he started the meeting
Micael Khandr: appl or not apply?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: CARO ! CARO !
Arria Perreault: has someone asked for a 7-day vote?
Jamie Palisades: 2. Does the 2/3rds rule in the constitution count all membrs, or just present members? ( I read it as the latter for textual reasons I could discuss.)
Soro Dagostino: The Chair is will to allow those as 7 day votes -- we did fail to issue notice.
Arria Perreault: this is the question
Jamie Palisades: OK, that's one ruling, thanks.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, yes, they do, but we have to ask first which members have indeed requested for 7-day votes.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Caro didn't know about the meeting therefore she couldn't ask for 7 day vote
Pip Torok agrees with Stu
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And jamie, the 2/3 is of ALL members. Constitutional changes are important
StuiChicanne Darkstone: likewise I didn't know about the meeting until I IM'd Micael
Micael Khandr: I affirm Soro's call.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How didn't she know about the meeting?
Jamie Palisades: Gwyn, my take on that is that the chair is within his power - as I would if I were LRA - to let NONNOTICED members register their vote. RA can overrule him of course
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait
StuiChicanne Darkstone: because it wasn't communicated as per usual
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah
Pip Torok: there was no notice of this meeting gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So this is an irregular meeting? hehe
StuiChicanne Darkstone: oui
Micael Khandr: Very much . . .
Jamie Palisades: If LRA post meeting notices and agendas , well, OK so I'd say, let Soro;s ruling stand
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh my.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: had it been communicated I would have been here on time

(continued)

[Cindy Ecksol]

(continued)

Jamie Palisades: but hey, move to overrule him if you disagree
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I was late
Rose Springvale: ijoaquin; is in concert and has said he wants 7 day
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought we had agreed on the date on the last meeting...
StuiChicanne Darkstone: because I wondered why so many RA members were online
Micael Khandr: Joaquin was here at the beginning of the meeting . . .
StuiChicanne Darkstone: ah but Gwyneth the last meetnig was such an uproar that no one knew what was going on at the end
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose, I'm afraid that either a) people who wish to have a 7-day vote will need to inform the LRA as per the usual procedures; or b) we'll have to vote on allowing those since allegedly this meeting is irregular
Keila Forager: I didn't know about it either
Pip Torok: we had agreed gwyn but it still wasnt notified and the transcript hadnt been published
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Stui ? like all meetings ,)
Arria Perreault: are we trying all looking how to get the missing votes to get the aye?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This should make the next SC meeting very fun
Rose Springvale: we are trying to make sure the constitution is amended or not based on the will of the people.
Soro Dagostino: Joaquin has just made his request for a 7 day vote -- granted.
Micael Khandr: Yes
Kamilah Hauptmann: Meeting appears to be planned to keep key people from voting. *laughing behind hand*
Jamie Palisades: Personally I can't say strionbgly enough that notices and postings are essential in a democratic system, not to mention a virtual one, but maybe that's just me Gwyn, to stay on the topic of my point of order, Soro has ruled that they may have 7 days votes. Move to overturn him - or - live with it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nah, Arria. I'll suggest that we go by the book. We ask Cindy if she had any requests for 7-day votes. If so, they will be allowed to vote. If not, we'll let the SC sort it out. And yes, that's a motion to stop discussing this, let teh SC do their work, and move on to the next point (if at all)
Soro Dagostino: That is the chair's ruling.
Cindy Ecksol: ok, kids...mea culpa on this one. I was thinking it was next week, that's whI didny
Cindy Ecksol: didn't send notices, etc as usual
Rose Springvale: also transcript was posted mid week
StuiChicanne Darkstone: if you want I could pretend I'm not here
Cindy Ecksol: I did not have any requests for 7 day.
Cindy Ecksol: yes...again because I was thinking meeting was next week...
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm sorry, Jamie, but I don't recognise the Pro Tem LRA's ability to overrule the constitution on this
Jamie Palisades: i asked for a second ruling, if no one's going to try to overrule the first one.
Soro Dagostino: I just did.
Cindy Ecksol:
StuiChicanne Darkstone: because had I not been online and wondering why so many RA members were on
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I wouldn't be here either
Cindy Ecksol: and we can all second if we like....
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it's the other way round, the LRA has to move a motion to change the law
Jamie Palisades chuckles. Gwyn! MOVE to overrule him then ")
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, Jamie,
Micael Khandr: Does Joquin's request for 7-day stand, as he had to leave for a scheduled cioncert?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: HE has to move to change the law
Micael Khandr: concert
Cindy Ecksol: move that we allow 7 day votes from all memebers fo rthis meeting
Micael Khandr: second
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, thanks Cindy
StuiChicanne Darkstone: YAY FOR CARO !
Micael Khandr: I said second--clearly . . .
Keila Forager: that is only fair
Soro Dagostino: The motion is in order.
Micael Khandr: Did I mentioned that I seconded that . . .
Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles @ Micael
Jamie Palisades sits on his other point of order, waitingfor the first to resolve
Keila Forager: or it seems you are more concerned with rules than the citizens
StuiChicanne Darkstone: it's only fair that if a meeting is called and it is not communicated by the usual method that those not present be asked if they would like 7 day votes
Soro Dagostino: Those who seek to speak, please raise your hand.
Soro Dagostino: There is a motion pending/
StuiChicanne Darkstone: otherwise they are not able to represent the people
Micael Khandr: Raises hand
Soro Dagostino: Mic you have the floor.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *raises both hands*
Soro Dagostino: Micael?
Micael Khandr: TY, Soro--simple point: lots of confusion here about whether or not there was a meeting--some people were absent. This seems like a good reason for an exception to the way 7-day votes are usually done. Thank you Cindy for the motion, I support it.
Micael Khandr: Done
Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand*
Soro Dagostino: Stui?
Soro Dagostino: You have the floor.
Soro Dagostino: Gwyn next
Soro Dagostino: Stui?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: [9:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Micael Khandr !
[9:11] Khandr: Stui! Are you coming to the RA?
[9:11] Darkstone: oh when is it ?
[9:11] Khandr: Now . . .
[9:11] Darkstone: *LOL*
[9:11] Darkstone: no one told me
[9:12] Khandr: It si the one we decided we wanted last week as an extra one to talk factions--but Cindy isn't here, and I don't think there was an announcement.
[9:12] Darkstone: ah ha
StuiChicanne Darkstone: just to clarify my lack of knowledge with documentary evidence
Pip Torok:
Arria Perreault: Stui, you asked for this meeting
StuiChicanne Darkstone: thankyou Mr One for Soro
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I did
Sonja Strom: lol
StuiChicanne Darkstone: but I did not realise we agreed to it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Rose Springvale: we often plan meetings and change the times when peole have gone to look at calendars. NO one put it on the calendar
StuiChicanne Darkstone: owing to the rather chaotic nature of the end of the meeting
Jamie Palisades: any chance of a vote on the 7 day motion?
Arria Perreault: we have set it at the last meeting and you did insist a lot
Micael Khandr: call the question
StuiChicanne Darkstone: plus I never said I was not human and capable of a mistake or oversight
Arria Perreault: A LOT
StuiChicanne Darkstone: of which this is one
Arria Perreault: I am sure everyone can read this in the transcript
Micael Khandr: You are not human?
Rose Springvale: loves this ... you are afraid of the rest of the RA?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I did insist
Soro Dagostino: Bangs Gavel
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
Rose Springvale: its a constitutional question you voted in favor of!
Micael Khandr: Sorry . . .
StuiChicanne Darkstone: admittedly
Arria Perreault: yes, you did and we gave you reason
Soro Dagostino: There has been a call of the question.
Pip Torok: move to vote (please/:)
Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
Micael Khandr: second
Micael Khandr: Aye
Pip Torok: aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I don't debate that I insisted - I say that I was not sure that the meeting was effectively upheld
Gwyneth Llewelyn didn't have a chance to talk, but ok, I'll vote "aye"
StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye !
Micael Khandr: Oh, sorry Gwyn . . .
Arria Perreault: abstains
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (it was just a technicality anyway, Micael)
Soro Dagostino: Sonja?
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Soro Dagostino: Chair votes aye.
Soro Dagostino: Any opposed?
Sonja Strom: I'm sorry, I am not sure what the question is.
Soro Dagostino: To permit 7 day votes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sonja: [11:15] Cindy Ecksol: move that we allow 7 day votes from all memebers fo rthis meeting
Sonja Strom: for this one meeting?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, for this one.
Sonja Strom: I vote aye
Soro Dagostino: Motion carries.
Micael Khandr: Thank you, Soro
Soro Dagostino: Is there a motion to adjourn?
Pip Torok: so move
Gwyneth Llewelyn: seconds
Micael Khandr: By any chance, is this the last RA meeting of this term . . ?
Pip Torok: it is mic
Jamie Palisades: unless one is called
Soro Dagostino: I think so.
Jamie Palisades shudders
Micael Khandr: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hopefully, *properly* called
Soro Dagostino: All in favor of adournment?
Gwyneth Llewelyn will love to see what the SC will make out of this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye on adjournment
Pip Torok: aye
Micael Khandr: aye yi yae
Arria Perreault: aye
Soro Dagostino: Chair votes aye.
Soro Dagostino: Meeting adjourned.
Sonja Strom: aye
Rose Springvale: Thank you to the RA
Sonja Strom: Thanks everybody!
Rose Springvale: it has been a strange term, but your service is appreciated!
Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Rose!
Jamie Palisades smiles. Thank you to all for your service this term. I request notice of any appeals to the SC of today's actions. Just so we're all clear. The next RA can do whatever it likes. And I will post to the forums, on whatever I find out about election admin issues, if the SC doesn't.
Rose Springvale: i'm serious!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Do you mean, stranger than usual?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Strange is me
Micael Khandr: Thanks to Soro and to Cindy
Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
Cindy Ecksol: don't you mean "no thanks to soro and cindy?"
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: pfft
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *bangs gavel
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *bangs gavel*
Rose Springvale: see you all at the meet and greet next week, if you have time constraints .. please let me know, i'll schedule something as friendly as we can get otherwise
Arria Perreault: Thank you for the Executive Team for the work that has been done, even it was strange
Jamie Palisades: No, CIndy, we try to be grateful for everyone's contributions in a volunteer organization.
Keila Forager: What meet and greet??
Arria Perreault: sometimes
Sonja Strom: Rose, when will that be?
Jamie Palisades chuckles
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl Arria ? yes, indeed, we should have voted on official thanks to the Exec this year!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *ter,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *term
Micael Khandr: Adios, all--I want to see what RL looks like today . . .
Keila Forager: Anyone who volunteers get my thanks ))
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cold, I bet, Micael
StuiChicanne Darkstone: cold in Britain
Keila Forager: And in Texas
Gwyneth Llewelyn is freezing more inside her home than outside
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
StuiChicanne Darkstone: we are disappearing under snow
Arria Perreault:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol at the toilet paper!!!!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that is soooo cool!
Gwyneth Llewelyn just has a tomato launcher
Tor Karlsvalt: -12c in chicago
Gwyneth Llewelyn: brrr Tor
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Kamilah )))
Rose Springvale: kami lol please come to all our meetings!
Arria Perreault: so SEED will exists only 6 months ?
Rose Springvale: no
Rose Springvale: seed is a faction now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No no Arria ? factions were not abolished!
Arria Perreault: I Know
StuiChicanne Darkstone: SEED * !
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Rose Springvale: seed self abolishes when it s mission is accomplishe
Arria Perreault: it was presented as a faction against factions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Heh.
Rose Springvale: it has 7 candidates for this term
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, that's popular on all serious democracies.... e.g. Anarchist Parties and the like
Rose Springvale: all who should be elected.
Rose Springvale: because they are all GREAT candidates
Jamie Palisades: Good luck with your Arosa project, Sonja. Those posters are gorgeous.
Keila Forager: You're biased rose, but right
Arria Perreault: we wait for the list
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and have good fashion sense too
Rose Springvale: list has been delivered to the SC
Keila Forager: Arosa is right next door to me too Jamie
Jamie Palisades: Rose and I have not has as good luck with promotional art contributions as Arosa has
Jamie Palisades: It's good to have creative volunteers ..
Soro Dagostino: See you all, RL calls.
Jamie Palisades chuckles
Rose Springvale: but they are Stui, Caro, Joaquin,Soro, Keila, Lilith, Sterling
Jamie Palisades: Thanks again Soro
Keila Forager: Bye Soro
Arria Perreault: bye Soro
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks for chairing today, Soro
Soro Dagostino: Now to extract all the arrows.
Soro Dagostino:
Soro Dagostino: Bye all!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps what most people don't realise,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: is that we all at the CDS disagree a lot with each other,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: which is GOOD in a democracy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... and we're still here to tell the story
Keila Forager: Yes, but so is change )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes!
Kamilah Hauptmann: Still favorable to a dictatorship, speaking as a dictator.
Jamie Palisades: still here - people forget what a rarity in SL a 5 year institution is
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kamilah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You're right, Jamie!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We do have something special and precious, even if it's small....
Keila Forager: Very true
Jamie Palisades: Kami, we will never know, until the day Des retires or goes Ulrika on us
Gwyneth Llewelyn: In fact, the interesting thing is that popular bloggers have stopped to announce the premature death of the CDS
Jamie Palisades: or packs up for Blue Moon, of course
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Jamie
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Riiight
Jamie Palisades: heh heh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that's more likely to happen
The meeting closed at 11:39 Linden time.