Town hall Meeting at Convivencia Institute, Al-Andalus
[2010/02/14 9:14] Mikelo Serevi: hi lilith
[2010/02/14 9:14] Cindy Ecksol: yes....and no notice went out 
[2010/02/14 9:14] Lilith Ivory: Hi Cindy thank you
[2010/02/14 9:14] Cindy Ecksol: shall we send one?
[2010/02/14 9:14] Lilith Ivory: hi Mikelko
[2010/02/14 9:14] Lilith Ivory: would be a good idea
[2010/02/14 9:14] Mikelo Serevi: There was a message in the forum and pat sent one
[2010/02/14 9:15] Cindy Ecksol: I would have thought Pat or Arria would have been here to coordinate
[2010/02/14 9:15] Lilith Ivory: I didn´t get anything 
[2010/02/14 9:15] Cindy Ecksol: not to mention the rest of the RA....
[2010/02/14 9:15] Mikelo Serevi: Well, it is informal
[2010/02/14 9:15] Cindy Ecksol: SUCH a good idea....shame if it doesn't get off the ground....
[2010/02/14 9:15] Lilith Ivory: met an interested CDS visitor a few minutes before and he wasinterested to join us also
[2010/02/14 9:15] Cindy Ecksol: ah, nice!
[2010/02/14 9:16] Cindy Ecksol: shall we go sit on the patio?
[2010/02/14 9:16] Cindy Ecksol: nice out there....
[2010/02/14 9:16] Mikelo Serevi: yes, so people will see us if they land
[2010/02/14 9:16] Lilith Ivory: sure
[2010/02/14 9:16] Right Door: Mikelo Serevi is at the door.
[2010/02/14 9:16] Left Door: Cindy Ecksol is at the door.
[2010/02/14 9:16] Cindy Ecksol shouts: over here!
[2010/02/14 9:17] Cindy Ecksol: nice circle already set up....
[2010/02/14 9:17] Lilith Ivory: wow - so many places here I still have to explore
[2010/02/14 9:17] Cindy Ecksol: yes, it really is lovely.
[2010/02/14 9:18] Cindy Ecksol: I have a little house on the other side of the sim.
[2010/02/14 9:18] Mikelo Serevi: I think my first time in AA was for a concert
[2010/02/14 9:18] Mikelo Serevi: hi delia
[2010/02/14 9:18] Cindy Ecksol: hey delia!
[2010/02/14 9:18] Lilith Ivory: hi Delia
[2010/02/14 9:18] Delia Lake: good day
[2010/02/14 9:18] Mikelo Serevi: I nearly bought land here too
[2010/02/14 9:18] Delia Lake: slow to rez today
[2010/02/14 9:19] Lilith Ivory: it´s sunday hehe
[2010/02/14 9:19] Cindy Ecksol: having this little house is so comfortable that I haven't been in a rush to build my parcel in AM
[2010/02/14 9:19] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[2010/02/14 9:19] Cindy Ecksol: rose keeps nudging me
[2010/02/14 9:19] Delia Lake: lol, Cindy
[2010/02/14 9:19] Lilith Ivory: I noticed you are building a church or something like that in AM
[2010/02/14 9:20] Mikelo Serevi: Is this in the old monastery parcel?
[2010/02/14 9:20] Cindy Ecksol: yes
[2010/02/14 9:20] Delia Lake: what is your plan for that land, Cindy?
[2010/02/14 9:21] Cindy Ecksol: I'm building a house...
[2010/02/14 9:21] Cindy Ecksol: have done some prototyping, but need to make some more textures before I can really build it.
[2010/02/14 9:22] Cindy Ecksol: really want to do one from scratch, but I'm not much of an architecht
[2010/02/14 9:22] Cindy Ecksol: architect
[2010/02/14 9:22] Mikelo Serevi: It sounds like an interesting project
[2010/02/14 9:22] Cindy Ecksol: mmmm....let's see, I think I might have the photo of the RL house....
[2010/02/14 9:23] Mikelo Serevi: prefab houses always seem to lack something
[2010/02/14 9:23] Delia Lake: in sl we have opportunities to try out and learn new skills like that
[2010/02/14 9:23] Cindy Ecksol: yes, they are reflections of the person who built them
[2010/02/14 9:23] Lilith Ivory: did somebody send out a note yet?
[2010/02/14 9:23] Cindy Ecksol: no....
[2010/02/14 9:23] Cindy Ecksol: Mikelo, you're an RA member, yes?
[2010/02/14 9:23] Lilith Ivory: I just saw another interested friend of the CDS coming online
[2010/02/14 9:23] Mikelo Serevi: yes
[2010/02/14 9:23] Delia Lake: i've liked building
[2010/02/14 9:23] Cindy Ecksol: why don't you send it out
[2010/02/14 9:23] Delia Lake: Lilith is also RA
[2010/02/14 9:24] Mikelo Serevi: I'm not sure if I have access atm
[2010/02/14 9:24] Lilith Ivory: uhm ...I´m still such a newb lol
[2010/02/14 9:24] Cindy Ecksol: oh....
[2010/02/14 9:24] Cindy Ecksol: well....
[2010/02/14 9:24] Lilith Ivory: same here
[2010/02/14 9:24] Delia Lake: hmmmm.......another admin issue to fix then it would seem
[2010/02/14 9:24] Cindy Ecksol: I do....but don't want to overstep my bounds:-)
[2010/02/14 9:24] Mikelo Serevi: I think there is an RA group
[2010/02/14 9:24] Cindy Ecksol: ok with you all if I send out?
[2010/02/14 9:24] Delia Lake: sure
[2010/02/14 9:24] Delia Lake: it's either you or me babe )
[2010/02/14 9:24] Lilith Ivory: sure
[2010/02/14 9:25] Mikelo Serevi: go for it
[2010/02/14 9:26] Lilith Ivory: brb I need to brew more cofee
[2010/02/14 9:26] Mikelo Serevi: Good idea, me too
[2010/02/14 9:27] Cindy Ecksol: ok, there we go....sent to both CDS and AA
[2010/02/14 9:27] Cindy Ecksol: we really need to deal with that two-group issue
[2010/02/14 9:27] Delia Lake: hi Garnet
[2010/02/14 9:27] Garnet Psaltery: Hello everyone (just rezzing)
[2010/02/14 9:27] Lilith Ivory: hi Garnet
[2010/02/14 9:27] Cindy Ecksol: and other group issues too...it's been ages since we've had any real organization of permissions
[2010/02/14 9:27] Cindy Ecksol: Jamie has been talking about it but we really need to DO it!
[2010/02/14 9:27] Delia Lake: agreed, Cindy
[2010/02/14 9:28] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[2010/02/14 9:28] Delia Lake shouts: over here, Wasp and Arias
[2010/02/14 9:28] Delia Lake: Hello there!
[2010/02/14 9:29] Arias Ahren: Hellow
[2010/02/14 9:29] Lilith Ivory: Hi Arias
[2010/02/14 9:29] Delia Lake: hi
[2010/02/14 9:29] Lilith Ivory: Hi Wasp
[2010/02/14 9:30] Bright AO (Spunky female) #262: Could not find animation 'SLC17(P4)*'
[2010/02/14 9:30] Bright AO (Spunky female) #262: Could not find animation 'SLC17(P4)*'.
[2010/02/14 9:30] Lilith Ivory: Hi Jayme
[2010/02/14 9:30] Delia Lake: hi Jayme
[2010/02/14 9:30] Mikelo Serevi: I know the two-group thing is annoying, but I think it makes sense also
[2010/02/14 9:30] Jayme Mistwalker: hi everyone
[2010/02/14 9:30] Garnet Psaltery: Hello
[2010/02/14 9:30] Mikelo Serevi: Hi
[2010/02/14 9:30] Garnet Psaltery: Could someone explain the two-group problem please?
[2010/02/14 9:31] Mikelo Serevi: Well, AA and CDS have at least two groups between them
[2010/02/14 9:31] Patroklus Murakami: hi everyone, so sorry i'm late!
[2010/02/14 9:31] Mikelo Serevi: hi pat
[2010/02/14 9:31] Lilith Ivory: Hi Pat
[2010/02/14 9:31] Delia Lake: one problem is that you have to have permissions in both groups to send out notices to the community
[2010/02/14 9:31] Mikelo Serevi: So notices have to get sent out to multpile ones, peopl get duplicates or get missed
[2010/02/14 9:31] Garnet Psaltery: That's awkward
[2010/02/14 9:31] Delia Lake: and if you live in LA and have no land in AA you may not be able to send to both
[2010/02/14 9:31] Delia Lake: hi Pat
[2010/02/14 9:32] Mikelo Serevi: On the other hand, some notices may only apply to one or the other
[2010/02/14 9:32] Mikelo Serevi: It does seem to need better organization, anyway
[2010/02/14 9:32] Garnet Psaltery: So are you looking for a third, overarching group?
[2010/02/14 9:32] Delia Lake: very true. i'm not suggesting that both groups aren't necessary at this point, but that the admin issues need to be handled
[2010/02/14 9:33] Delia Lake: the whole LL group restrictions are a problem in many ways
[2010/02/14 9:33] Lilith Ivory: sigh yes
[2010/02/14 9:33] Delia Lake: maybe we should have a server based group like the Hippo system for general announcements
[2010/02/14 9:34] Cindy Ecksol: well, I have to admit that given the 25 group restriction, I would LOVE to be able to merge the AA and CDS groups
[2010/02/14 9:34] Patroklus Murakami:
[2010/02/14 9:34] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, my groups are full also
[2010/02/14 9:34] Jayme Mistwalker: agreed
[2010/02/14 9:34] Delia Lake: mine are full too, in more thatn 1 alt, lol
[2010/02/14 9:34] Lilith Ivory: but the AA group has a lot of members who might not be interested in CDS meetings
[2010/02/14 9:34] Garnet Psaltery: 
)
[2010/02/14 9:34] Cindy Ecksol: I'm thinking that it's time we made more use of the Subscribe-o-matic kind of stuff
[2010/02/14 9:34] Lilith Ivory: as they are no residents
[2010/02/14 9:35] Delia Lake: that's what i'm thinking, Cindy
[2010/02/14 9:35] Garnet Psaltery: They are very useful
[2010/02/14 9:35] Cindy Ecksol: use groups for residents, subscribe-o-matic (or one of the others) for events, etc.
[2010/02/14 9:35] Patroklus Murakami: so, apart from CDS citizens, who else is in the AA group?
[2010/02/14 9:35] Lilith Ivory: yes I have one and am very happy with it
[2010/02/14 9:35] Delia Lake: many people who want events notices
[2010/02/14 9:35] Mikelo Serevi: Well, yes, in email groups you can sometimes nest them, so "All" goes to multiple groups
[2010/02/14 9:35] Delia Lake: are in the AA group
[2010/02/14 9:35] Cindy Ecksol: Pat, I think there are many who are "friends of AA" in the AA group, just like in CDS group
[2010/02/14 9:36] Free Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
[2010/02/14 9:36] Delia Lake: hi Imo
[2010/02/14 9:36] Lilith Ivory: Hi Imotali
[2010/02/14 9:36] Delia Lake: hi Micael
[2010/02/14 9:36] Imotali Antiesse: Hi Delia, Lilith
[2010/02/14 9:36] Lilith Ivory: Hi Micael
[2010/02/14 9:36] Micael Khandr: Hi all!
[2010/02/14 9:36] Mikelo Serevi: Hi
[2010/02/14 9:37] Delia Lake: subscrib-o-matic is something i think we should seriously consider
[2010/02/14 9:37] Jayme Mistwalker: that's really the best alternative
[2010/02/14 9:37] Garnet Psaltery: The only thing I ask of one of htose is that it's easy to find
[2010/02/14 9:37] Cindy Ecksol: Delia, the resistance to that is that Rose (in particular) doesn't want to use "non-SL" tools
[2010/02/14 9:37] Delia Lake: i would imagine that there are others who would like to be Friends of but have no group spaces
[2010/02/14 9:37] Mikelo Serevi: Would people have to re-subscribe?
[2010/02/14 9:37] Lilith Ivory: and it´s free for non profit organisations
[2010/02/14 9:37] Cindy Ecksol: Mikelo, yes, people would have to re-subscribe.
[2010/02/14 9:37] Mikelo Serevi: That could be a problem
[2010/02/14 9:37] Cindy Ecksol: but that's a one-time effort to move them over...we could announce over the regular group
[2010/02/14 9:38] Cindy Ecksol: and niggle at anyone who doesn't switch...
[2010/02/14 9:38] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[2010/02/14 9:38] Cindy Ecksol: yes, some work...but I think worth it.
[2010/02/14 9:38] Lilith Ivory: the ones who don´t come online often might be a problem
[2010/02/14 9:38] Mikelo Serevi: Well, I've administered email lists, and it's not alwyas that easy
[2010/02/14 9:38] Delia Lake: many of the retail establishments have done that
[2010/02/14 9:38] Cindy Ecksol: many of us are short of groups...but don't want to drop a group because we want the news
[2010/02/14 9:38] Mikelo Serevi: People get left behind
[2010/02/14 9:38] Left Door: Micael Khandr is at the door.
[2010/02/14 9:38] Left Door: Micael Khandr is at the door.
[2010/02/14 9:39] Mikelo Serevi: It could really be a good alternative though...
[2010/02/14 9:39] Cindy Ecksol: Mikelo, I think the key is to spend the time to move people over.
[2010/02/14 9:39] Lilith Ivory: I´m happy to have my Alt to hold all my less important groups lol
[2010/02/14 9:39] Mikelo Serevi: Say that IF you want to save groups, you can go here
[2010/02/14 9:39] Jayme Mistwalker: we could have people subscribe at the next event...isnt there a ball coming up?
[2010/02/14 9:39] Delia Lake: then the CDS and AA groups might still be needed but could address issues, and permissions related to issues rather than events
[2010/02/14 9:39] Cindy Ecksol: in a way having subscribe-omatic is better....in the long run, we can post "sign up points" around the sims and encourage more to join -- "click to join" rather than having to search for a group or be invited
[2010/02/14 9:39] Imotali Antiesse: I second that Lilith
[2010/02/14 9:40] Lilith Ivory: also there could be subscribe signs at public places
[2010/02/14 9:40] Mikelo Serevi: I just don't want to force people to do things a certain way
[2010/02/14 9:40] Cindy Ecksol: exactly Lil.
[2010/02/14 9:40] Delia Lake: yes, Lilith
[2010/02/14 9:40] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[2010/02/14 9:40] Cindy Ecksol: Mikelo, right now they already have to "do things a certain way"
[2010/02/14 9:40] Cindy Ecksol: this is just a DIFFERENT 'certain way"
[2010/02/14 9:40] Jayme Mistwalker: lol
[2010/02/14 9:40] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[2010/02/14 9:41] Patroklus Murakami: can you sign ppl up to subscibe -o-matic or do they have to do it themselves?
[2010/02/14 9:41] Mikelo Serevi: But they are doing it
[2010/02/14 9:41] Cindy Ecksol: Pat, they have to do it themselves
[2010/02/14 9:41] Mikelo Serevi: If we could migrate them, that's one thing
[2010/02/14 9:41] Lilith Ivory: I think they have to do it themselves
[2010/02/14 9:41] Mikelo Serevi: But I suspect a lot would miss the notice and get dropped
[2010/02/14 9:41] Cindy Ecksol: don't know about some of the othe rsystems -- they may allow "owner sign ups"
[2010/02/14 9:41] Patroklus Murakami: hmm. i agree that, if we made teh move, we would have to persist with both systems for some time
[2010/02/14 9:41] Delia Lake: one of the concerns that has been raised time and time and time again is how to get more people, visitors, participation in the CDS. group limitations may just be one of the problems in us reaching a broader audience
[2010/02/14 9:41] Patroklus Murakami: there is inertia to deal with
[2010/02/14 9:42] Cindy Ecksol: oh, yes....there would definitely be some overlap time.
[2010/02/14 9:42] Garnet Psaltery: Just keep mentioning it )
[2010/02/14 9:42] Cindy Ecksol: and we need to look into the capability to authorize more than one person to send notices
[2010/02/14 9:42] Jayme Mistwalker: cant we message individuals we notice dont switch over
[2010/02/14 9:42] Mikelo Serevi: But having an option instead of a forced swtich
[2010/02/14 9:42] Delia Lake: we may still need both the AA and CDS groups
[2010/02/14 9:42] Mikelo Serevi: Some would jump at the chance to reduce groups, and others don't care
[2010/02/14 9:43] Patroklus Murakami: if we still need the AA and CDS groups, are we really any better off? (just playing devil's advoctate)
[2010/02/14 9:43] Delia Lake: that's true, Mikelo
[2010/02/14 9:43] Delia Lake: I think we would be Pat
[2010/02/14 9:43] Mikelo Serevi: This is what I'm thinking, pat
[2010/02/14 9:43] Delia Lake: right now events notices go out to the members of both groups, plus get listed in the SL events
[2010/02/14 9:43] Mikelo Serevi: But something more flexible would definitely help a lot
[2010/02/14 9:44] Mikelo Serevi: I wonder, are there Sl tools like subscribe-o-matic? In-world spammers seem to have perfected it
[2010/02/14 9:44] Delia Lake: but if we had a non LL restricted notice group, it could go out to many more people who have no empty group slots
[2010/02/14 9:45] Patroklus Murakami: i like the idea of using subscribe-o-matic, or something similar, to reach a wider audience. i'm just not sure it solves the problem of still needing two groups and all the admin duplications that causes
[2010/02/14 9:45] Delia Lake: for instance, there are groups of educators and librarians who might be interested in some of our events but have no space to join our 2 groups
[2010/02/14 9:46] Mikelo Serevi: Or they don't own land in either, but are interested in us
[2010/02/14 9:46] Delia Lake: yes, Mikelo
[2010/02/14 9:47] Micael Khandr: I'm coming here mid-conversation, but if I understand one of the issues, I think that those in the AA group as well as the CDS group would not want to lose the AA group in avor of only the CDS group.
[2010/02/14 9:47] Micael Khandr: Hope that fits with the discussion.
[2010/02/14 9:47] Mikelo Serevi: This sounds like a good agenda item at the next regular RA meeting
[2010/02/14 9:47] Mikelo Serevi: Yes Micael, I think we need a system that is more flexible than our current one
[2010/02/14 9:48] Patroklus Murakami: that's fine micael. no reason the two groups can't continue but... it measns there is an admin overhead to running two groups with overlapping membership
[2010/02/14 9:48] Cindy Ecksol: well, the real solution is for LL to figure out the "scaling" issue for groups
[2010/02/14 9:48] Delia Lake: one group we might be able to loose though would be the land group, and give the permissions that are now just in the land group to roles in the CDS group and the AA group
[2010/02/14 9:48] Mikelo Serevi agrees with cindy
[2010/02/14 9:48] Lilith Ivory: Hi Cloudy Darkstone
[2010/02/14 9:48] Micael Khandr: But it allows AA to keep its identity, which is important to AA even as we are part of CDS.
[2010/02/14 9:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: why should AA lose it's identity just because of dual membership ?
[2010/02/14 9:49] Patroklus Murakami: i dont think anyone's suggestng that it should
[2010/02/14 9:49] Mikelo Serevi: Well, neither group should lose identity
[2010/02/14 9:49] Mikelo Serevi: That would be a shame, IMO
[2010/02/14 9:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: as people have said they are not fond of multiple messages sent thru group channels that bear no interest for themselves
[2010/02/14 9:50] Cindy Ecksol nods
[2010/02/14 9:50] StuiChicanne Darkstone: why would you condense two groups to one ?
[2010/02/14 9:50] Delia Lake: the identities of the communities and sims are integral to the charm and i think everyone wants to keep those
[2010/02/14 9:50] Cindy Ecksol: no, stui...
[2010/02/14 9:50] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, ppl get annoyed by too much and call it spam
[2010/02/14 9:50] Cindy Ecksol: don't really want to condense...
[2010/02/14 9:50] Delia Lake: we aren't talking about condensing. we are talking more about administrative functions
[2010/02/14 9:50] Tor Karlsvalt: but you can choose not to get messages
[2010/02/14 9:50] Cindy Ecksol: well...I guess we do -- we need a "community wide" group so that everyone gets notices once
[2010/02/14 9:51] Patroklus Murakami: perhaps we just need to be clearer about what the groups are for?
[2010/02/14 9:51] Mikelo Serevi: I'm trying to clear this up in my head
[2010/02/14 9:51] Cindy Ecksol: yes, tor, but some messages on AA don't come to CDS...and vice versa
[2010/02/14 9:51] Cindy Ecksol: and many go to BOTH groups
[2010/02/14 9:51] Cindy Ecksol: so I get lots of "duplicates"...but I don't miss anything
[2010/02/14 9:51] Garnet Psaltery: Do excus eme, I have to go. I vote for the subscribe-o-matic !
[2010/02/14 9:51] Cindy Ecksol: those subscribed only to one or the other miss stuff...but don't get duplicates
[2010/02/14 9:52] Mikelo Serevi: yes, sometimes we really need to announce to everyone, other times it's a narrower focus
[2010/02/14 9:52] Delia Lake: but then for admin if we have only the 2 groups we have the same issue that came up just now. RA Mikelo who doesn't own land in AA couldn't send out those notices
[2010/02/14 9:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AA used to have two groups of it's own
[2010/02/14 9:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if you recall
[2010/02/14 9:53] Lilith Ivory: I think RA members got a note we should ask for permision to send notes in the AA group
[2010/02/14 9:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the Citizens group
[2010/02/14 9:53] Mikelo Serevi: Sometimes it's just about permissions also, like for rezzing
[2010/02/14 9:55] Tor Karlsvalt: Seem btw I am only in the CDS group
[2010/02/14 9:55] Mikelo Serevi: Anyway, does anyone have any other issues they would like to talk about?
[2010/02/14 9:55] Cindy Ecksol: yes, mikelo....we have BIG problems with permissions....for rezzing, for returning junk, for posting to groups, for forums....
[2010/02/14 9:56] Jayme Mistwalker: I must go...good day to all
[2010/02/14 9:56] Mikelo Serevi: Ok, see you jayme
[2010/02/14 9:56] Lilith Ivory: bye Jayme
[2010/02/14 9:56] Delia Lake: lol, i can't return a box of junk in the MoCA booth of CN!
[2010/02/14 9:56] Cindy Ecksol: bye Jayme!
[2010/02/14 9:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: see you soon Jayme
[2010/02/14 9:56] Cindy Ecksol: exactly Delia
[2010/02/14 9:56] Delia Lake: bye Jayme
[2010/02/14 9:57] Tor Karlsvalt: bye Jayme
[2010/02/14 9:57] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, the SL tools can be limited
[2010/02/14 9:57] Cindy Ecksol: I have "Land Verwaltung" but it doesn't work everywhere
[2010/02/14 9:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well what about if we have administrators ?
[2010/02/14 9:57] Cindy Ecksol: perms aren't set properly
[2010/02/14 9:57] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[2010/02/14 9:57] Cindy Ecksol: we DO have administrators, Stui....
[2010/02/14 9:57] Delia Lake: same for me, Cindy
[2010/02/14 9:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: whom you apply to for limited term perms ?
[2010/02/14 9:57] Mikelo Serevi: In some ways it sounds like a review of the existing admin setup is needed first
[2010/02/14 9:58] Lilith Ivory: I get money for cleaning up litter but can´t return from a lot of parcels also
[2010/02/14 9:58] Cindy Ecksol: yep, Jamie has been promising this for two terms....
[2010/02/14 9:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: someone who sets perms and revokes perms in relation to purpose
[2010/02/14 9:58] Cindy Ecksol: I think he has the concept, just has to get it rolled out
[2010/02/14 9:58] Lilith Ivory: I always have to call Sonja for help or contact the owner
[2010/02/14 9:58] Mikelo Serevi: To make sure the right people are in the right groups
[2010/02/14 9:58] Delia Lake: the way it is set up worked when we just had NFS
[2010/02/14 9:58] Cindy Ecksol smiles at Delia
[2010/02/14 9:58] Mikelo Serevi: Is there an RA group, for example?
[2010/02/14 9:59] Patroklus Murakami wonders how many ppl remember when we just had NFS...
[2010/02/14 9:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: using the groups flexibly you can be active in both but member of one or the other at the suitable time
[2010/02/14 9:59] Delia Lake: but it doesn't seem to be working as well now
[2010/02/14 9:59] Cindy Ecksol: not a group, mikelo, but there is an RA role in the CDS group that gives some privileges
[2010/02/14 9:59] Delia Lake: right, Pat
[2010/02/14 9:59] Micael Khandr: I think that if eveyone is in the CDS group, and that is the main group for permissions, and then there additional groups (like AA) for communication within region, that should work.
[2010/02/14 9:59] Mikelo Serevi: I see, thx cindy
[2010/02/14 9:59] Cindy Ecksol: not necessarily the RIGHT privileges though....all of those group roles need to be "rationalized" and parceled out appropriately
[2010/02/14 10:00] Patroklus Murakami: but everyone is not yet in the CDS group micael. i think that's part of the problem
[2010/02/14 10:00] Mikelo Serevi: And some people may not want to be
[2010/02/14 10:00] Patroklus Murakami: if they were, we could cut down on duplication of govnt notices, for example
[2010/02/14 10:00] Micael Khandr: So one group, for sure, and two groups for those who want two groups. But the permissions connect to the CDS group.
[2010/02/14 10:00] Delia Lake: and if the permissions and privileges in the AA and CDS groups were revisited we might not need the Land group at all
[2010/02/14 10:00] Tor Karlsvalt: Well you have groups and rolls withing groups
[2010/02/14 10:00] Patroklus Murakami: some ppl may not have any group slots left
[2010/02/14 10:00] Cindy Ecksol: a couple of terms ago we had a real problem with one dissatisfied member who COULD have zapped pretty much everything in CN because her prior roles gave her privileges she shouldnt have had
[2010/02/14 10:00] Tor Karlsvalt: each role has own perms
[2010/02/14 10:01] Tor Karlsvalt: so you dont need lots of groups
[2010/02/14 10:01] Delia Lake: yes, Tor. we can make better use of those role perms i think
[2010/02/14 10:01] Tor Karlsvalt: probably
[2010/02/14 10:01] Micael Khandr: Wll, there are 25 groups allowed, so if this area is a priority for people, and they want two groups, then I guess they'll have to use two of their slots.
[2010/02/14 10:01] Delia Lake: but some perms are connected directly to sims......
[2010/02/14 10:02] Delia Lake: according to LL rules
[2010/02/14 10:02] Tor Karlsvalt: I think each group can have ten roles.
[2010/02/14 10:02] Patroklus Murakami: i'm cool with that micael - if you want CDS notices, join the group. don't join, you don't get em! simple
[2010/02/14 10:02] Micael Khandr: But in terms of estate permissions, I believe there can only be one group?
[2010/02/14 10:02] Cindy Ecksol: mmmm, no I don't think so Micael.
[2010/02/14 10:03] Cindy Ecksol: mmmm...wait...maybe you're right
[2010/02/14 10:03] Tor Karlsvalt: So withing a CDS group you can have rolls assigned only to AA or AM or CN
[2010/02/14 10:03] Micael Khandr: I "think" the estate has to be deeded to the group.
[2010/02/14 10:03] Mikelo Serevi: I think we need to extend the existing setup for announcements without disrupting tthe status quo
[2010/02/14 10:03] Micael Khandr: one group
[2010/02/14 10:03] Cindy Ecksol: no....
[2010/02/14 10:03] Cindy Ecksol: I think what you have to do to make groups work for the sim is to assign all "public" parcels to the group.
[2010/02/14 10:04] Mikelo Serevi: We have at least 5 types of people, right?
[2010/02/14 10:04] Tor Karlsvalt: yes that would work
[2010/02/14 10:04] Cindy Ecksol: so Land Verwaltung could be used to adminster across sims (for estate stuff)
[2010/02/14 10:04] Mikelo Serevi: How are public parcels assigned right now?
[2010/02/14 10:04] Cindy Ecksol: would take a LOT of work to make that happen....right now "ownership" is all over the place
[2010/02/14 10:04] Lilith Ivory: depends on the Sim they are in
[2010/02/14 10:04] Tor Karlsvalt: ok like a big confederation group
[2010/02/14 10:05] Delia Lake: extending is what the subscrib-o-matic would let us do, Mikelo
[2010/02/14 10:05] Mikelo Serevi: It's certainly worth considering
[2010/02/14 10:05] Cindy Ecksol: yes, exactly Tor
[2010/02/14 10:06] Mikelo Serevi: Or something like it anyway
[2010/02/14 10:06] Cindy Ecksol: many multi-sim builds use groups this way
[2010/02/14 10:06] Tor Karlsvalt: wb stui
[2010/02/14 10:06] Cindy Ecksol: well, this was good....
[2010/02/14 10:06] Mikelo Serevi: Nice duds, btw stui
[2010/02/14 10:06] Cindy Ecksol: but I must go....RL tickets to the ballet today
[2010/02/14 10:06] Mikelo Serevi: Oh, enjoy cindy
[2010/02/14 10:06] Lilith Ivory smiles
[2010/02/14 10:07] Patroklus Murakami: so, what would the proposal be? and who has to do what to make it happen?
[2010/02/14 10:07] Tor Karlsvalt: have a good time
[2010/02/14 10:07] Lilith Ivory: have fun
[2010/02/14 10:07] Delia Lake: now that we have a much larger community it is probably time to revisit how we are using our groups
[2010/02/14 10:07] Patroklus Murakami: lucky u cindy. have fun
[2010/02/14 10:07] Cindy Ecksol: have a nice day all!
[2010/02/14 10:07] Tor Karlsvalt: u2
[2010/02/14 10:07] Imotali Antiesse: bye cindy
[2010/02/14 10:07] Mikelo Serevi: That's what I'm trying to sort out in my head, pat
[2010/02/14 10:07] Lilith Ivory: see you
[2010/02/14 10:07] Patroklus Murakami: <---- arch pragmatist
[2010/02/14 10:07] Mikelo Serevi: And revisitation is a good way to start, as delia says
[2010/02/14 10:09] Delia Lake: the first proposal might be to add a subscrib-o-matic for events announcements
[2010/02/14 10:09] Patroklus Murakami: ty delia
[2010/02/14 10:09] Mikelo Serevi: Well, but I still question whether it would fit properly with our currrent system
[2010/02/14 10:09] Delia Lake: how so, Mikelo?
[2010/02/14 10:09] Mikelo Serevi: If an admin can't subscribe people, it could become a nightmare
[2010/02/14 10:10] Lilith Ivory: not if it´s only for events like a concert or a ball
[2010/02/14 10:10] Mikelo Serevi: I work with technology in RL, and rushing into any solution can cause a lot of headaches
[2010/02/14 10:10] Mikelo Serevi: Everyone has their pet solution
[2010/02/14 10:11] Mikelo Serevi: I'd say maybe we need to clarify what is needed before deciding on a solution
[2010/02/14 10:11] Delia Lake: true, Mikelo
[2010/02/14 10:11] Lilith Ivory: yes indeed
[2010/02/14 10:11] Tor Karlsvalt: yup
[2010/02/14 10:11] Mikelo Serevi: And it could be subscribe-o-matic
[2010/02/14 10:12] Patroklus Murakami: perhaps we should consider subsribe-o-matic as part of a wider consideration of groups and their roles? we need to be clear what problem we are trying to solve
[2010/02/14 10:12] Mikelo Serevi: yes, I agree
[2010/02/14 10:12] Mikelo Serevi: It sounds like a strong contender for announce-only applications
[2010/02/14 10:12] Delia Lake: yes, Pat, and I'd say problems as there seem to be a number of ones that connect through use of groups
[2010/02/14 10:12] Tor Karlsvalt: Could subscribe-o-matic offer us ideas tho, as to what we might want?
[2010/02/14 10:13] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, feature-wise
[2010/02/14 10:13] Mikelo Serevi: I'm not familiar with it. Do people subscribe through a web site?
[2010/02/14 10:13] Imotali Antiesse: on the contrary if you want to unsubscribe how do you do that. I have problem with TNT modelling subscribe-omatic
[2010/02/14 10:13] Lilith Ivory: no Micelko you just have to touch a sign
[2010/02/14 10:14] Delia Lake: they subscribe by touching a sign inworld
[2010/02/14 10:14] Mikelo Serevi: An in-world sign, ok, I've seen plenty of those
[2010/02/14 10:14] Tor Karlsvalt: oh a neighbor has one on the mainland.
[2010/02/14 10:14] Mikelo Serevi: Some for groups, but for lists also
[2010/02/14 10:14] Tor Karlsvalt: wish i didn't subscribe
[2010/02/14 10:14] Delia Lake: hmmm. Imo. i haven't had a problem unsubscribing but that's good to note
[2010/02/14 10:14] Mikelo Serevi: How does the back-end work? Who stores it?
[2010/02/14 10:14] Patroklus Murakami: does 'the primgraph' use something similar? i keep getting pestered with notices every time i log in. how do you unsubscribe from these things?
[2010/02/14 10:14] Arias Ahren: Hopefully you will not construe my silence as a lack of interest. Many references are beyond my current state of understanding. rather than badgering with, what that, I am simply trying to absorbe much like a child assimilates a language. I to must go, but my personal experience always dictates keep it simple, when you can. Thanks for the note Michael I will try and get to it after dinner.
[2010/02/14 10:14] Lilith Ivory: hehe you only have to touch the sign again to unsubscribe
[2010/02/14 10:15] Imotali Antiesse: oh?
[2010/02/14 10:15] Tor Karlsvalt: I hear ya patroklus
[2010/02/14 10:15] Imotali Antiesse: thanks lilith wll get back there
[2010/02/14 10:15] Delia Lake: that's what i've found too Lility
[2010/02/14 10:15] Delia Lake: Lilith
[2010/02/14 10:15] Lilith Ivory smiles
[2010/02/14 10:15] Lilith Ivory: I´m experimenting with subscribeomatic at the moment myself
[2010/02/14 10:16] Lilith Ivory: and am impressed how many people show interest in my group
[2010/02/14 10:16] Delia Lake: there may be other systems that are just as good or even better than the subscirb-o-matic out there also
[2010/02/14 10:17] Mikelo Serevi: It would be nice to have admin control over membership
[2010/02/14 10:17] Patroklus Murakami: this feels like the kind of discussion that might be good to continue on the forums. that way, we might be able to develop a proposal in time for next weeks regular RA meeting
[2010/02/14 10:17] Mikelo Serevi: Ok, that sounds good pat
[2010/02/14 10:17] Delia Lake: good suggestion, Pat
[2010/02/14 10:18] Patroklus Murakami: anyone want to volunteer to start it off?
[2010/02/14 10:18] Mikelo Serevi: I can if you like. I'm trying to sort out the issues anyway
[2010/02/14 10:18] Patroklus Murakami: ty mikelo
[2010/02/14 10:19] Mikelo Serevi: I just hope ppl read it, but that's another story 
[2010/02/14 10:19] Lilith Ivory: I can give you a link to the subscribeomatic website
[2010/02/14 10:19] Imotali Antiesse: ah yes, i usually skipped it
[2010/02/14 10:19] Delia Lake: i also want to say that today is a really good example of why informal meetings of citizens are important
[2010/02/14 10:19] Patroklus Murakami: i agree delia
[2010/02/14 10:19] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, some thing just pop up
[2010/02/14 10:20] Delia Lake: if we hadn't all either been here or been trying to get here, none of this would have come up
[2010/02/14 10:20] Lilith Ivory: and the main problem was that people were wandering through our Sims ...
[2010/02/14 10:20] Lilith Ivory: trying to find the meeting hehe
[2010/02/14 10:20] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, i had no idea we had these issues.
[2010/02/14 10:20] Delia Lake: and clearly it's an issue of agravation and importance to the community
[2010/02/14 10:20] Mikelo Serevi: There's a lot of work ahead, clearly
[2010/02/14 10:20] Mikelo Serevi: It's good stuff though
[2010/02/14 10:21] Delia Lake: yes
[2010/02/14 10:22] Patroklus Murakami: so, for future informal meetings like this one, what channels do we need to use to catch everybody who might be interested? what information do we need to include?
[2010/02/14 10:22] Delia Lake: if we are to have a vibrant community in addition to events and discussions we also need good communications tools
[2010/02/14 10:22] Mikelo Serevi: Currently, notice to AA and CDS with an LM
[2010/02/14 10:22] Mikelo Serevi: In the future, maybe something more glitzy
[2010/02/14 10:22] Patroklus Murakami: champagne?
[2010/02/14 10:23] Lilith Ivory: lol
[2010/02/14 10:23] Lilith Ivory: maybe some camp chairs
[2010/02/14 10:23] Imotali Antiesse: hehe
[2010/02/14 10:23] Delia Lake: in addition to the group announcements, and the forum announcements, and a suscribe---, we might need to have signs in the main areas of our sims. Community meeting, with notecard and lm
[2010/02/14 10:24] Imotali Antiesse: where is the main area for AA?
[2010/02/14 10:24] Mikelo Serevi: The times are regular, so yes
[2010/02/14 10:24] Delia Lake: especially if we are going to rotate meeting spots which i think we should
[2010/02/14 10:24] Patroklus Murakami: this makes me even more aware that we need better comms tools! that all sounds like a lot of admin
[2010/02/14 10:24] Mikelo Serevi: Well, it will mostly be up-front effort
[2010/02/14 10:25] Mikelo Serevi: I think fixing the existing roles, etc, might come first
[2010/02/14 10:26] Delia Lake: wonder if the subscrib--- or whatever has a function with the sign/poster that would allow for notecard giving and offline updating or centralized updating of the notecard........or is this just Delia wishing
[2010/02/14 10:26] Mikelo Serevi: That would be nice
[2010/02/14 10:26] Lilith Ivory: there is a notecard giving function
[2010/02/14 10:26] Delia Lake: Lilith, you have this connected in to your website?
[2010/02/14 10:26] Delia Lake: thx
[2010/02/14 10:26] Tor Karlsvalt: It would be good it it sent an email.
[2010/02/14 10:26] Mikelo Serevi: So you wouldn't have to go to each sign for each change
[2010/02/14 10:26] Lilith Ivory: and also a centralized update
[2010/02/14 10:27] Imotali Antiesse: the event vendor infront of eltosoro library is one example
[2010/02/14 10:27] Lilith Ivory: it´s connected to the subscribe website
[2010/02/14 10:27] Lilith Ivory: and I can log in there as admin for my group
[2010/02/14 10:28] Delia Lake: that sounds good
[2010/02/14 10:28] Lilith Ivory: I would have go to my mein tool to give you the link to the website
[2010/02/14 10:28] Lilith Ivory: you also can add several admins
[2010/02/14 10:28] Micael Khandr: Excuse me all, I have to go.
[2010/02/14 10:28] Delia Lake: that's good too
[2010/02/14 10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: bye Micael
[2010/02/14 10:28] Delia Lake: bye Micael.
[2010/02/14 10:29] Lilith Ivory: bye Micael
[2010/02/14 10:29] Lilith Ivory: not sure what features it has also
[2010/02/14 10:29] Lilith Ivory: ut I´ll check
[2010/02/14 10:31] Delia Lake: so in addition to coming to an understanding of our current community needs and concerns, it seems that we should investigate what system capabilities are out there with the different possible services
[2010/02/14 10:31] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, and it seems at least loosely connected to our issues with the forum
[2010/02/14 10:32] Delia Lake: I was thinking that also Mikelo
[2010/02/14 10:32] Patroklus Murakami: yes, and setting up routines and responsibilities so stuff happens
[2010/02/14 10:32] Delia Lake: yes, Pat, very important
[2010/02/14 10:32] Lilith Ivory: yes
[2010/02/14 10:32] Mikelo Serevi: It's easy to talk about, mmhmm
[2010/02/14 10:33] Patroklus Murakami: i need to get going too. could someone post a transcript?
[2010/02/14 10:33] Mikelo Serevi: Well, I am the archivist
[2010/02/14 10:33] Patroklus Murakami: ty mikelo. it's a really important and useful role
[2010/02/14 10:34] Delia Lake: it sure is!
[2010/02/14 10:34] Lilith Ivory: yes
[2010/02/14 10:34] Patroklus Murakami: (you'll deserve a medal by the end of the term!)
[2010/02/14 10:34] Mikelo Serevi: I'm beginning to see why people are grateful I took it also 
[2010/02/14 10:34] Imotali Antiesse: and grateful..
[2010/02/14 10:34] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[2010/02/14 10:34] Patroklus Murakami: cu later folks. great meeting, glad we had it!
[2010/02/14 10:34] Delia Lake: hopefully it will get easier. it just hasn't been done much recently
[2010/02/14 10:34] Mikelo Serevi: cya pat
[2010/02/14 10:34] Lilith Ivory: cu Pat
[2010/02/14 10:35] Delia Lake: bye Pat. this was good
[2010/02/14 10:35] Imotali Antiesse: bye pat
[2010/02/14 10:35] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, I think it will smooth out over time
[2010/02/14 10:35] Tor Karlsvalt: yes very interesting
[2010/02/14 10:35] Tor Karlsvalt: cya all, bye Lilith
[2010/02/14 10:35] Mikelo Serevi: Bye
[2010/02/14 10:35] Lilith Ivory: Bye Tor
[2010/02/14 10:35] Delia Lake: i'm looking forward to the next community meeting
[2010/02/14 10:36] Mikelo Serevi: I'm working to write a forum posting about the comm issue
[2010/02/14 10:36] Delia Lake: and btw, i suspect that if they are as full of discussion as this one, it will have a postive impact on the RA and make those meetings both easier and more productive
[2010/02/14 10:36] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, this felt worthwhile to me
[2010/02/14 10:36] Delia Lake: ty Mikelo
[2010/02/14 10:37] Mikelo Serevi: Ok, see you all later
[2010/02/14 10:37] Imotali Antiesse: ah i can be off too now.
[2010/02/14 10:37] Imotali Antiesse: bye all
[2010/02/14 10:37] Delia Lake: bye. i'm off to grab some rl lunch
[2010/02/14 10:37] Lilith Ivory: yes see you all
[2010/02/14 10:38] Lilith Ivory: great idea delia
[2010/02/14 10:38] Mikelo Serevi: ok, ta
[2010/02/14 10:38] Lilith Ivory: bye for now