The Merger: Tackling problems, finding solutions

Here you might discuss basically everything.

Moderator: SC Moderators

Rose Springvale
Forum Wizard
Forum Wizard
Posts: 1074
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:29 am

Re: The Merger: Tackling problems, finding solutions

Post by Rose Springvale »

Gwyn, you bet i resent a post intentionally meant to mislead. What' "citizens" have you actually spoken to? I know you've not had a conversation with me. Is this all rumor and innuendo?

The details of VDI were set out in the merger agreement, which also sets out the respective rights and obligations of both sides of this transaction. I suggest you all start there when you want to determine what might lead to dissatisfaction. Has CDS done what it said it would do? Has Al Andalus? the question the AA citizenry will be deciding is ...does this work for us. I suspect i know the answer, but have committed to a process and will see it through.

User avatar
Gwyneth Llewelyn
Forum Wizard
Forum Wizard
Posts: 1189
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 8:00 am
Contact:

Re: The Merger: Tackling problems, finding solutions

Post by Gwyneth Llewelyn »

The talk was several hours after the last RA meeting, where many people were still around... and no, I didn't keep a transcript (I didn't ask permission!). That post was mostly the notes I took from what was said. The biggest contributor to the list was Stui.

And Rose, I already know your opinion :) Better than that, you have already posted often what issues you have, and made them public. But I was interested to hear what other AA residents say, and what concerns they had; some don't speak on the forums and were given little opportunity (or even no opportunity at all) to speak on the RA. Still, their issues are also important, don't you think? If they're based on factual data, or merely the perception they have of how things are being handled, is pretty irrelevant. A concern is a concern. Factual data will just help us to patiently explain to the concerned citizen why their assumptions are wrong and why they shouldn't worry.

Or did you mean that we should only refer to you regarding any issues that concern Al Andalus? If so, I apologise in advance, because that was not made clear to me — but I'm also allowed to disagree! I think that all AA residents have the right to speak for themselves! At least during the "transition phase", the freedom of expression of AA residents has not be revoked!

Granted, I'm not perfect and I might have understood some things wrongly. But that's why we're discussing things here: to understand which are valid concerns; which are misinterpretations of concerns that actually don't exist; which ones are just misconceptions based on my wrong assumptions. However, the first two cases have to be addressed (the last one doesn't :) ). I wish to list all concerns, factual or otherwise; and listen to all citizens, not just the ones that someone deems to be worthy of listening to. By patiently going through that list (and hopefully add to it!) I hope that we can at long last figure out what needs to be done to make sure that the AA residents are happy about their situation. If they're being fed false assumptions and fearing things that actually don't exist, our role is to explain the facts, but never to suppress their right to express their fears, rational or otherwise.

So, after rewriting the post I had lost, answering to your six points:

1. I'm glad it was sorted out that the Mosque and other religious structures in AA are open to the public and free to visit without restrictions, and that anyone can use those buildings! Again, thanks for the clarification. It definitely contradicts what has been told to me.

2. Sorry about the confusion of the CDS flag vs. the Spanish flag. This is a case where I might gotten my notes wrong. I quoted "citizens are worried because some buildings show flags that are not appropriate for the cultural and historical background of the building". After a short jump around AA, I found the three flags — AA, CDS, and the Spanish flag — to be floated in some buildings (not all together!). I wrongly assumed that the target of the complains was any non-AA flag floated in AA.

3. and 4. You're quite right. We need a list :) and a clarification of who posts the available plots, and who is able to request permission to sell them. By default, this role will fall upon the Executive, but it might be best to make double-sure at the next RA meeting. On the last Town Hall, a group was suggesting that Sacromonte would use the similar status as the Monastery in the 'old CDS', and that the New Guild is charged with the planning of this. It's worth discussing it at the RA level, as the RA is supposed to agree with theme expansions/changes via recommendations made by the New Guild, and executed by the Executive.

5. Rose, remember, you have all the facts, and I'm sure that you have sent them to "CDS officials". But we don't have any of those numbers. We just have the financial reports, and no reason to believe they're not accurate. The "confusion" is just because the information listed there doesn't validate the claim that the AA sims are paying for the old CDS tier; nevertheless, this is a popular opinion, often expressed in public. In fact, only in the month of October did the tier collection from the AA sims surpass the collection in the rest of the CDS by about 10%. Tier collection in the AA sims can be as low as just L$2000 in a month due to pre-payments, so it's hardly possible to understand, before July 2010, if AA pays for itself or not. I'm confident that it does, e.g. that after a year, all the maths add up correctly and we can indeed satisfy ourselves by proving that it worked out fine. The "confusion" is just that we cannot make such claims now.

6.

Rose Springvale wrote:

The details of VDI were set out in the merger agreement, which also sets out the respective rights and obligations of both sides of this transaction. [...] The merger agreement provides that CDS has the right to name some directors, but you all treat it like its some monster.

Yes, well, the problem is that on the last draft of the merger agreement that I found, as well as on the subsequent RA meeting of May 31, 2009, the non-profit is never mentioned by name or by composition. The relationship between the non profit, your own self, and its role in the agreement was not made public AFAIK, although a link might be dangling somewhere, I just can't find it. I'd love if someone could send a link to me, please. In any case, that doesn't worry me overmuch.

Looking back at the conversations I had, if I were paranoid, I would almost think that people were deliberately misleading me to make a fool of myself in public :) But I was never paranoid, so I prefer to believe that a lot of AA residents are actually stating their fears upon irrational beliefs that have little to do with the facts. Nevertheless, since AA residents will vote in July to stay or to leave the CDS, it's important that at least they base their vote on factual data. However, it's also important to document and bring to the public discussion what their irrational fears are, so that we can know what they think, and at the very least point them to the facts.

"I'm not building a game. I'm building a new country."
  -- Philip "Linden" Rosedale, interview to Wired, 2004-05-08

PGP Fingerprint: CE8A 6006 B611 850F 1275 72BA D93E AA3D C4B3 E1CB

User avatar
Gwyneth Llewelyn
Forum Wizard
Forum Wizard
Posts: 1189
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 8:00 am
Contact:

Re: The Merger: Tackling problems, finding solutions

Post by Gwyneth Llewelyn »

... and in any case, I think it's a good idea to do exactly what you've proposed, e.g. see what has actually be done by both partners in the merger agreement. As said, I have to work from the Third Draft until someone supplies me with a more recent text:

1. The six Al Andalus sims and four CDS sims will merge as one territory on acceptance of this offer by AA's managers; all land owning residents of AA will become CDS citizens, and land, rentals and administration of AA assets will be the responsibility of the established structures in the CDS government.

It was refused to let the rental system in AA merge with the CDS system. The only compromise was to let the Treasurer collect the tier from the Hippo vendors and then pay the respective EOs to allow them to pay tier. I personally consider this to be a reasonable agreement, so long as it isn't used as an argument for failure to comply with it :)

Land management seems at this stage be a bit confusing (as Sonja pointed out), but I'm sure that a solution will be found soon.

2. AA's SL groups will be maintained and administratively supported by CDS government, including the public interest lists; members of those lists may also be invited as appropriate to join other CDS groups. The exception is that SL groups used for land administration (in other words, government, not citizen groups) may be altered and consolidated.

Seems to be the case. Or at least I'm not aware of anyone claiming the contrary :)

3. As a project operated in Linden Lab's "Educational sim" class, AA sims may only be transferred to another duly qualified nonprofit organization. AA sims will be maintained in their current nonprofit status, and transferred to a new nonprofit organization as stated in paragraph 5.

This "class" actually doesn't apply to AA sims, e.g. discounted land for non-profits cannot be sold to residents. Granted, when the merger was being discussed, nobody was aware of the issue. In any case, this is being actively discussed.

The AA sims will remain at their current rents, tier and pricing, for one year after acceptance, so long as the Linden sim tier prices applicable to them do not change. See Section 8 also, regarding the first year of the merged estates.

Seems to be the case.

Public land and buildings in AA shall become the property of CDS. All AA community builds will be subject to CDS law regarding community assets and theme build protection for AA's recreation of 13th century Arabic Granada, Spain. AA makes no representation that such structures will be available as copies for archive purposes, but will take reasonable steps, without incurring new expense, to supply archived copies and content where such exist. CDS agrees to take reasonable steps, without incurring new expense, to support the maintenance and operation of such buildings.

To the best of my knowledge, this also seems to be the case, e.g. nobody has suggested dropping sims, stop paying tier for them, and so on.

CDS government and AA management each warrant that they are aware of no present nonconforming builds or covenant violations on the AA sims. All building, structure and style terms of the present AA covenant will be retained.

Definitely seems to be the case.

4. Integration of electorate and provisions for representation. For interim purposes, when this offer is accepted, CDS shall determine an estimated number of added representatives (the "Interim Added Seats"), based on the number of AA citizens joining as CDS citizens as of the date of acceptance, by a resolution of the CDS RA after recommendations from the CDS chancellor and AA EO.

That's how it works right now.

[I'm skipping the rest of this section, because it just defines some procedures which are being followed]

5. A new nonprofit organization shall be established to be the sim holder of record, using two nominees from CDS and two nominees from AA as the nominal organizers, and the CDS chancellor (by virtue of office) as a presiding director or manager, or such other similar arrangement as applicable local law may permit, in a nonprofit company form reasonably acceptable to AA management and the CDS government. That organization shall have the purpose of reporting to, taking direction from and managing for the benefit of the CDS government.

Under discussion. (the next paragraph in the agreement also applies to this as well)

6. CDS will open a funded local sim event programming panel, on the same terms to be used for other CDS communities, for the AA estate. CDS government and AA management each warrant that they are aware of no theme, feasibility or appropriateness issues with the cultural and event programming activities presently conducted on the AA sims.

Established in the last term under Jamie's Chancellorship.

7. has already been put into effect.

8. is about what will happen in July 2010 :)

So, to recap: except for dealing with the financial issues (unified rental payment) and the lists of land parcels to facilitate acquisition by citizens, the only thing that remains is discussing the non-profit RL status of the CDS.

"I'm not building a game. I'm building a new country."
  -- Philip "Linden" Rosedale, interview to Wired, 2004-05-08

PGP Fingerprint: CE8A 6006 B611 850F 1275 72BA D93E AA3D C4B3 E1CB

Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion”