RA Town Hall Meeting 18 April 2010: Transcript - Part 3

[mikeloserevi]

[11:00] Solomon Mosely: yes
[11:00] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i mean really do we have military?
[11:00] Kaseido Quandry: is to spare others the burden of doing this themselves
[11:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: since when did any politician haul his canvassed voters before the mob ?
[11:00] Pip Torok: imo anyone who is NOT for cultural diversity in CDS at least should make that opinion clear for the rest of us to do something about it
[11:00] Solomon Mosely: and, for the sake fo brevity in meetings
[11:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: having been involved in RL politics
[11:00] Solomon Mosely: which we seem to have totally lost
[11:00] Kaseido Quandry: well said, Solomon!
[11:00] Claude Desmoulins: The current AA model, as I understand it (sometimes privae meetings where residents advise an estate owner) doesn't reassure me well enough.
[11:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I know how it works
[11:00] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i smell a WAR!
[11:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you ask people
[11:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and they tell you
[11:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and you speak about it
[11:01] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: turning off scripts is not fair
[11:01] Solomon Mosely: no, thats ego burning
[11:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: for the better serving of those people
[11:01] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: stui you type like the princess, are you my alt
[11:01] Claude Desmoulins: Do I misunderstand how AA makes decisions?
[11:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Cleo
[11:01] Mikelo Serevi: wow
[11:01] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: lol shhhhhh
[11:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you will not disrupt me
[11:01] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: oh only i can be dsrupted i forgot
[11:01] Kaseido Quandry: Claude, I think that's basically right
[11:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if you are trying to incite a riot
[11:01] Tor Karlsvalt: I think those meetings were private only relative toward non residents of AA
[11:01] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: a war not a riort
[11:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: do so where one is required
[11:01] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: riot
[11:02] Pip Torok: what I think Claude is that AA people give their opinion rather than explicitly make decisions ... am I right?
[11:02] Tor Karlsvalt: All residents of AA were invited to the meetings with the estateholder.
[11:02] StuiChicanne Darkstone: here we intend to construct
[11:02] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: sit down stui u are making too much of yourself again
[11:02] Kaseido Quandry agrees with Pip
[11:02] StuiChicanne Darkstone: your childish need to be noticed is inappropriate
[11:02] Mikelo Serevi: Pip, you mean people can be ignored in AA if the owners choose?
[11:03] Solomon Mosely: please, sitting doesnt make the difference, clearly
[11:03] Patroklus Murakami: now, now. let's try to be civil even in disagreement
[11:03] Patroklus Murakami: we have managed to maintain a good tone so far
[11:03] Kaseido Quandry: Mikelo, isn't that another term for "losing an election"?
[11:03] Pip Torok: well they wd be VERY unwise to ignore those wishes ...
[11:03] Patroklus Murakami: i think this has been a really useful meeting. let's not end it in acrimony
[11:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Pat well if she cares to behave like a chimp throwing her peanuts at the humans.... then let her
[11:03] Mikelo Serevi: it isn't, no, because there has to be an election first
[11:03] Kaseido Quandry: Mikelo, that's process, not substance
[11:04] Kaseido Quandry: in both models, decisions are based upon the consent of the governed
[11:04] Mikelo Serevi: Well, things are either a democracy or the aren't
[11:04] Kaseido Quandry: in AA that's face to face and immediate
[11:04] Arias Ahren: Be nice stui
[11:04] Kaseido Quandry: in CDS, it's processed through layers of procedure
[11:04] Arias Ahren: Your brillance is enticing
[11:04] Patroklus Murakami: stui, you seem to speak for ppl who want the merger to end. what is the source of their disagreement?
[11:04] Kaseido Quandry: one is directly and immediately accountable, one is obscured
[11:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I would be more pleasant if I wasn't speaking to a source of toxicity
[11:04] Mikelo Serevi: we've been transparent here
[11:04] Pip Torok: so a meeting of styles wd be ideal for both parties, Kas ... what do you think?
[11:05] Patroklus Murakami: aah, kas. but then you have the tyranny of those who turn up
[11:05] Kaseido Quandry: Pip, I'd love to see that, and be part of trying ot make it happen
[11:05] Patroklus Murakami: what about those who can't? how do they participate?
[11:05] Pip Torok: we agree! ))
[11:05] Patroklus Murakami: stui? who do u mean by that?
[11:05] Kaseido Quandry: Pat, you're undercutting your own argument against Stui's representing his constituency!
[11:06] Arias Ahren: We are all at times toxic, but I almost always find constructive efforts under what may be perceived as toxic
[11:06] Patroklus Murakami: well, i want to hear the complaints at least from someone
[11:06] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Pat I mean Cleo
[11:06] Arias Ahren: We all deficate.
[11:06] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: is he self appointed?
[11:06] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: thqueen hates theprincess .. just ignore him.
[11:06] Arria Perreault: I think we should better talk about facts
[11:06] Patroklus Murakami: well, let's try to get along without too much rancour. we don't get along that well stui but let's play nice
[11:06] Kaseido Quandry: Pat, agreed - and with reasonable, varied, and frequent meeting times, people can present their own case, or ask someone to present it for them - same in both models, yes?
[11:06] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I have spoken to many people in the course of my two terms with RA
[11:07] Patroklus Murakami is a queen also and quite regal
[11:07] Arias Ahren: Stui: Do you favor the merge?
[11:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it'd be wisest to represent the people
[11:07] Pip Torok: (I bow before Rpyalty!:)
[11:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: personally ?
[11:08] Arias Ahren: Yes
[11:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I can't say that I do not have reservations in recommending it to the wavering voter
[11:08] Patroklus Murakami notes that we have had a meeting for over two hours but suggests we continue if ppl want to for another half hour or so?
[11:09] Pip Torok agrees
[11:09] Arias Ahren: I to
[11:09] Arria Perreault: ok
[11:09] Kaseido Quandry: another half hour would be good - this is constructive
[11:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it's my opinion only
[11:09] Lilith Ivory: yes
[11:09] Tor Karlsvalt: ok but getting coffee.
[11:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: my opinion extends only to me
[11:09] Kaseido Quandry: yep - my bladder's on a 2 hour timer, lol - brb
[11:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: people must make up their own minds
[11:09] Pip Torok: (tks for reminding me, Tor!:)
[11:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and talk to one another about their concerns
[11:09] Arias Ahren: I am left not knowing if there is any concensus of any sort.
[11:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: privately as much as publically
[11:10] Claude Desmoulins: How many people can you do face to face at once - Dunbar's number and all that/
[11:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: for there to be more private discussion will bring more direct information to all proceedings
[11:10] Mikelo Serevi: That's the trouble with democracy, arias, but also its strength
[11:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if the RA would like to see the true representation of the state of the merger
[11:10] Arias Ahren: I know, but strive to know what people reall yand
[11:10] Pip Torok: does anyone have URL's on Dunbar's number (apart from wili)?
[11:11] Arias Ahren: really want
[11:11] Pip Torok: *wiki
[11:11] Kaseido Quandry: (back)
[11:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then there are easier ways
[11:11] Tor Karlsvalt: back
[11:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: such as talking with people individually
[11:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and impartially
[11:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I don't intend to lead people to the conclusions of their own conscience or feelings
[11:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but I will be honest about what doesn't work
[11:12] Solomon Mosely: hey, how about this, i'll host an open discussion on political theory at my place, and we can have meetings that can stay focused on the issues?
[11:12] Pip Torok: shame that LL dont allow structured grouping of friends-lists
[11:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and what could be an improvement
[11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: please be
[11:12] Kaseido Quandry: lol, Solomon! Sign me up for both!
[11:12] Solomon Mosely: you can lead the discussion kas
[11:12] Kaseido Quandry: gods help us all, lol
[11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes:)
[11:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: my biggest concern here
[11:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: is that there will be voters who perhaps are eligible to vote
[11:13] Kaseido Quandry: but actually, that sounds like a fun and cheap event
[11:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but don't know what they are voting for
[11:13] Solomon Mosely: oh, it'll be very cheap...
[11:13] Tor Karlsvalt: in the elections Stui/
[11:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: yes
[11:13] Arias Ahren: It's always that way Stui
[11:13] Kaseido Quandry: so we need to reform the campaigning provisions of the constitution to allow for more effective voter education
[11:13] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: CDS is the real QUEEN, it is the only surviving democraracy from an earlthen thats your job, to educate them.
[11:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: in that they will not know the greater implications
[11:13] Tor Karlsvalt: I think the factions need to campaign and thet the word out.
[11:14] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: oops sorry
[11:14] Arria Perreault: we have a guide for voter in the portal
[11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: How can we address that concern, Sti?
[11:14] Arria Perreault: maybe someone could update it regarding the new law
[11:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and so the dilution of the informed vote
[11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no more factions, Tor )
[11:14] Patroklus Murakami: i think that anyone standing for election will have to work a lot harder on that stui. because STV means they need to get out a vote for them as individuals
[11:14] Tor Karlsvalt: Dont't they still act as parties Gwyn?
[11:14] Arria Perreault: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=election_guide
[11:14] Patroklus Murakami: so that means more campaigning, better informed voters and a higher turnout
[11:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I hope that people will discuss the matter more than they have
[11:15] Pip Torok: imo theyll act as talking-shops
[11:15] Patroklus Murakami: that's my prediction - you heard it hear first
[11:15] Pip Torok: you heard mine too ... let's see!
[11:15] Pip Torok:
[11:15] Kaseido Quandry: we need to enable campaigning outside of SL, and in group meetings, rather than just one avatar to one avatar
[11:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if the people want me as their rep... they know what I stand for I am sure
[11:15] Claude Desmoulins: Sorry must go lunch
[11:15] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: bye claude
[11:16] Patroklus Murakami: factions will still stand candidates but they will all need to work hard to deliver a personal vote
[11:16] Ranma Tardis: bye claude
[11:16] Pip Torok: bye Claude
[11:16] Kaseido Quandry nods at Pat
[11:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but I will be prepared to hold STH's that relate to my stance without any concern
[11:16] Tor Karlsvalt: Stui, if you don't ask people to vote they won't
[11:16] Pip Torok: you mean individual requests Tor?
[11:16] Arria Perreault: campaigns are a good thing in democracy
[11:17] Solomon Mosely: ok, gotta fly. cant wait for the elections.
[11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[11:17] Patroklus Murakami: but i doubt the merger will be much of an issue in the election most ppl are in favour of it and it would take a 2/3 majority in the RA for the CDS to dissolve it
[11:17] Kaseido Quandry: I agree - and I hope the RA will see its way to opening up the campagining process
[11:17] Solomon Mosely: have a good sunday y'all, toodles
[11:17] Arria Perreault: I remember in the past rep from faction were standing on the forum or the Platz to discuss with citizen
[11:17] Kaseido Quandry: bye Solomon!
[11:17] Imotali Antiesse: out of focus now. need my sleep. bye all
[11:17] Pip Torok: i can see where a faction puts up candidates but ppl elect them as individuals
[11:17] Arria Perreault: it was a nice time
[11:17] Lilith Ivory: bye Sol
[11:17] Arria Perreault: bye, Solomon
[11:17] Arias Ahren: Buy Imo
[11:17] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Why can't the AA citizens just vote for their representatives then make Rose the Queen and dictator if that's what they want? can they do that?
[11:17] Patroklus Murakami: we may see 'anti-merger' candidates. who knows?
[11:17] Lilith Ivory: bye Imo
[11:18] Arria Perreault: factions will make th work of the campaign easier of course
[11:18] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: then we won't have to bother with all this discussion and stuff.
[11:18] Pip Torok: find one who wd want to, CLEO!
[11:18] Kaseido Quandry: I could vote for that
[11:18] Patroklus Murakami: does it look like we are breaking up for now, folks?
[11:18] Kaseido Quandry: Pat, I think we're all running out of steam
[11:18] Patroklus Murakami: as in 'ending the meeting'
[11:18] Arria Perreault: ok for me
[11:18] Kaseido Quandry: excellent job with this meeting!
[11:18] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, I'm fine with it
[11:18] Patroklus Murakami: ty, i think it's been really good
[11:18] Tor Karlsvalt: yes thaks pat
[11:19] Arria Perreault: I have learned interesting things
[11:19] Patroklus Murakami: robust at times but very constructive
[11:19] Pip Torok: looks like it Kas, and BTW ... welcome to Alpine Meadow!
[11:19] Ranma Tardis: well saying phase III for last
[11:19] Kaseido Quandry: And all of you, I'm glad for the opportunity to get to know you and your views better
[11:19] Arria Perreault: thank you
[11:19] Patroklus Murakami: i feel i understand ppl's positions a lot better now
[11:19] Kaseido Quandry: Pat, agreed
[11:19] Tor Karlsvalt: Yes, Kas, I see you got your house back in place.
[11:19] Ranma Tardis: it is my hope that the neufers and AA people can settle their differences
[11:19] Kaseido Quandry: lol, Tor!
[11:19] Patroklus Murakami: we will post a transcript on the forums. pls click the recorder if you haven't already to indicate consent to being recorded
[11:20] Kaseido Quandry: yes, I once again own a *house* in AM, not just a bunch of stuff floating in space, lol
[11:20] Tor Karlsvalt: Mine too Ranma!
[11:20] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[11:20] Mikelo Serevi: yes, I got a copy this time
[11:20] Lilith Ivory: I tried to touch the recorder
[11:20] Lilith Ivory: but not sure if it worked
[11:20] Ranma Tardis: bring the experment into the next phase
[11:20] Lilith Ivory: thanks all
[11:20] Arria Perreault: Bye bye all
[11:20] Patroklus Murakami: okay, we are adjourned. ty everybody