Ethics

[Soro Dagostino]

Arias -- your answer is that you refuse and then you denigrate me?

[Arias Ahren]

Soro, if by denigrate you mean to defame or make something seem unimportant, then no, that is not what I am doing. I am challenging your reasoning and logic. In addition to this, another example of your faulty reasoning is your sitting idle while Kas refers to me as scum but find it intolerable when I tease a friend suggesting that he is a subversive. Or, when you suggested that the Aesth's are a fanatical religious group intent on buying up all of the CDS lands, when there was absolutely no logical foundation for you to make such an assumption.

I am challenging you, defending what I believe are basic democratic principals. Principals that are held sacred in any true democracy.

[Soro Dagostino]

In addition to this, another example of your faulty reasoning is your sitting idle while Kas refers to me as scum

Please provide the time and date of this event. I do not believe I was privy to that conversation, so I do not see how you can attribute the problem to me. In general, Ariass its your continuing perjoratives that I am going to be watching . . . each time I see one you will hear from me.

Soro

[Arias Ahren]

It started with you Soro. You may or may not remember your posting the following.

“I suggest you start by defining and explaining " Aesths." Over the years, as an RL land lawyer, I have seen efforts by religious groups to buy up and control rural communities and then commence to compel all citizens to hew to the religion or be banned from the area.”

Bags stepped in and attempted to explain a little about the group Aesths and Kas responded to her post as follows:

“You have disgusting taste in friends, Bagheera. How anyone could associate with the scum who posted the response below yours is beyond me. Arias is clearly beyond shame, but shame on you.”

I think that if you are going to attempt to moderate these Forums you should at the very least be reading the posts that are responses to your own entries.

[Callipygian]

Welcome to the forums Solario - unfortunate that your arrival is amid much sturm und drang.

Arias, as Bagheera pointed out - I think Soro misunderstood your attempt at injecting humour. Not totally surprising - there really has not been much to laugh at joyously here recently.
Soro, I believe Arias was greeting an old friend with an 'insult'..a fairly common way of showing friendship for many of us, but easily misinterpreted in text and in situations already carrying a lot of negativity.

Arias, I'd like to suggest to you, as you did to Soro, that you read Bagheera's post - especially the part about 'giving the benefit of the doubt' to start to mend things here. It's possible that a simple explanation to Soro, to clarify what you meant, would have gotten a very different response than the 'you are trying to censor me' reply. Kas has posted in that other thread to acknowledge her part in maintaining the flames here and expressed a desire to participate in changing the atmosphere. Could you consider doing the same? I ask that also of *everyone* who is posting in ways that add to the flamefest here.

In this situation I see a simple misunderstanding and a reaction from Soro based on that. A strong reaction I agree, but again, not surprising considering the frequency that mud has been flying on these forums recently.To insist again that this is an attempt to silence you, when multiple other threads here show you active, vocal, and uncensored, even when someone else involved in an exchange with you*has* been warned ; does Caro being warned about personal attacks also constitute censorship and an attempt to undermine democratic principles?

You are certainly not alone in contributing to the unpleasantness on these forums Arias, but you are not blameless either. So I ask you, and everyone else posting, to consider the language you are using, to give the benefit of the doubt as Bagheera suggests, clarify or apologize for misunderstandings when they occur, and to examine one's own behaviour before throwing any stones.

Calli

[Arias Ahren]

Cali: Of course this is just one more attempt to silence me. I don't ask for anyone to make apologies, ever. Nor do I ever attempt to silence another. Nor do I use vulgarities to defend my positions. The vulgar slanderous remarks on these forms come from a particular group of people. People you know very well. They do not come from me, Solario, Bags, Zanna, Pat, Pip, Arria, Sonja, Timo, Gwen, Anna or Delia. They most often start with me taking a position, such as my opposition to this merger or supporting Arria for LRA, or Sonja for Chancellor. what emerges is someone calling me scum, degenerate, disgusting or some other equally sophisticated explicative. My intent here was to tease Solario and to welcome him into these forums. I think that is very obvious. I was being light and playful, Soro was not. Soro was being Soro, that's all. I make no attempt to silence or censure him. I am glad he spoke up. It gives us all an opportunity to see him exactly as he is.

What am I to do when someone imagines that I am the leader of a religious cult when there is not the slightest foundation for having or expressing such a belief? What am I to do when someones memory appears to be highly impaired, or they are highly prejudicial, hypocritical and discriminatory or being just plain dishonest? What I am to do when someone calls me the names that I have been called and come forward with totally absurd and unfounded allegations? What am I to do when someone claims that I made an attempt to to wrest the control of a sim from them when all I did was make a few suggestions in an attempt to help. What do I do when someone claims they have no conflict of interest in this merger or no vested interest in AA when they have been the director of the art galleries in Al Garnata for over a year? What do I do when someone claims that I am a jilted lover when I am not? What do I do when someone denies hating others when I have heard them express those hatreds over and over again? You don't need to answer that Calli, I know what I need to do. I need to do what I can to expose and express the truth. You are entitled to that.

And Cali, I am not Bags. I read her every word over an over again. She is as fine a friend as any person could ever hope to have, but I am not her.

[Pip Torok]

Arias before I use my powers to moderate. I request you withdraw your declarative that people are "subversives." That has no place on this Board and you should take it to your private e-mail with your friend.

Soro,

I think you and I should have a little chat about humour, irony, wit and lightheartedness.

On my part, I would be very interested in just how you saw that missive. A little diplomacy could have bought a reply from you like this:

"Arias, I'm not sure how to take your reply to Solario. I suppose it's a joke."

The fact that you didn't, the fact that you say "use my powers", the fact that you are in the SC, and the circumstances of your accession to it, all worry me.

And if you're not able to grasp why I'm worried ... then, Soro, I'm rather more worried.

"Beyond a certain point, military display is only possible in countries where the common people dare not laugh at the army. The Italians adopted the goose-step at about the time when Italy passed definitely under German control, and, as one would expect, they do it less well than the Germans. The Vichy government, if it survives, is bound to introduce a stiffer parade-ground discipline into what is left of the French army. In the British army the drill is rigid and complicated, full of memories of the eighteenth century, but without definite swagger; the march is merely a formalized walk. It belongs to a society which is ruled by the sword, no doubt, but a sword which must never be taken out of the scabbard. "

George Orwell "The Lion and the Unicorn"

Soro, if you don't understand the point of this quotation, I'm sure some reader will be glad to explain.

Pip Torok

[Soro Dagostino]

Gee Pip, your so brilliant, would you? And would you ask Arriass to specify the facts in his accusations?

[Solario Alchemi]

Let us all put our sensitivities to rest, for a time. The flame burns hot enough in the absence of the political wind.

Arias and I are friends from well before either of us came to Second Life. We are more the troubadours of mirth than the insurrectionists of ancient Rome.

We came here to have fun, enjoy life (SL) and make friends. As a writer, my interest in SL prompts my creativity to new inventiveness. Lately, it seems, there is little difference between RL and SL that in the cold light of day people are the same the world over. The competitiveness continues to unnecessarily erode the common good, the common goal and it's democratic spirit.

Yesterday, someone asked me "Who are you, really?" My reply was simply "I am a red blooded American boy, no more, no less". I add that my own inclinations are to NOT participate in the political realm here, but I do watch and I do vote.

As a newcomer in both SL and this forum, I can only admit I am a bit ashamed.

Solario Alchemi

[Arias Ahren]

"Gee Pip, your so brilliant, would you? And would you ask Arriass to specify the facts in his accusations?"

Soro, if you would review the threads on these Boards you would discover that I have repeatedly, and as accurately as I have been allowed, documented every one of my claims. I have gone further than that I have repeatedly asked that I be allowed to prove my claims beyond a question of a doubt. Unfortunately in this democracy citizens are selectively denied that privilege.

[Soro Dagostino]

That is up to a vote of the SC, it is not mine to give. By the way, in my view, subject to SC's concurrence, your public statements and recitations are available for presentation. But you are not permitted to use private correspondence with others, without notice and consent of your correspondent. The named correspondents are to be permitted to appear and challenge your "proofs." Otherwise, in my view, the SC should not not be accept your "proofs." It is up to the hearing body to "validate" your proofs, not you. If it does not, they are not admissible evidence. So, you see Arrias, under these guidelines the hearing will be fair to all. I ask Delia and the others on the SC to consider your request.

Soro

"Gee Pip, your so brilliant, would you? And would you ask Arriass to specify the facts in his accusations?"

Soro, if you would review the threads on these Boards you would discover that I have repeatedly, and as accurately as I have been allowed, documented every one of my claims. I have gone further than that I have repeatedly asked that I be allowed to prove my claims beyond a question of a doubt. Unfortunately in this democracy citizens are selectively denied that privilege.

I ask again: Allow we to come before the SC with one witness and allow me to present validated textual interchanges that have occurred between me and several individuals. If I am the liar then I will banish myself forever from CDS or at the discretion of the SC pay a fine of 100,000 Lindens. If the others are the liars than I ask that they be banished forever from CDS.

[Arias Ahren]

Soro: If you will review the transcripts of the SC meeting in which you were inaugurated and I was censured you will see that I was denied the right to present evidence and even forbidden to speak in any substantive way in my own defense.

"It is up to the hearing body to "validate" your proofs, not you."

I have asked several times that either the SC or a group selected by the SC review the actual transcripts, all to no avail.

[Soro Dagostino]

Arrias, you miss the point. . . no private transcripts without consent of your correspondent, the party on the other end of a private conversations. Notice and a right to question by that party -- to "validate" your proposed documented conversation.

[ArchangelStui]

[Jamie Palisades]

Sorry to say that I'm not seeing a good resolution here.
Arias is asking for a rudimentary-due-process level of response from the SC. I don't think that's an unsreasonable request.
Our SC, thought it's full of people acting in good faith, never has had a consistent set of rules or habits to act "judiciously" .. that is, acting calmly, carefully, and transparently, with obvious lack of bias. Failing that, any one decision (like some of the current moderations against Arias) quickly can degenerate into he-said-she-said rancor.
This is not a new criticism; I was saying this back years ago, when the SC was one virtual person, Gwyneth Llewellyn, who similarly had no practices around conflicts of interest.

In the current round, even the relatively new SC members Aliasi and Soro seem tempted to adopt an argumentative tone. It's an easy mistake, since Arias' tone generally is *very* argumentative. And I know Soro, at least, to be an accomplished mediator and a pretty calm guy. It's tough dealing with people who shoot first, like Arias is. When I was LRA, my biggest challenge was ThePrincess Parisi, who often seemed to want only to pick fights. But sinking to a fractious member's own level usually isn't good practice for a chairperson, judicial branch or other leader.

None of the foregoing suggests that I find Arias' own tone constructive or appropriate. Many of his postings in this Forum, long before any medical issues were mentioned, seem fractious and vitriolic. And I have called for him to remove some of them myself. But the test of a fair system is whether *everyone* gets their rights, not just nice people.

Regards JP