Transcript, RA meeting August 21, 2010

[Rose Springvale]

[10:00] Rose Springvale: let me remind everyone that we record and transcript all CDS RA meetings, if you speak you will have consented
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow Rose — that's a record, I'm sure!
[10:00] Kaseido Quandry seconds that
[10:01] Rose Springvale: and welcome to everyoen. We have a full schedule, and i'll be wicked with the agenda times, so hopefully eveyrone is prepared
[10:01] Lilith Ivory: back
[10:01] Rose Springvale: agenda is in the box on the table
[10:01] Keila Forager: did you ask SL Rose? hehe
[10:01] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:02] Rose Springvale: Welcome to Keila... and congrats to you and mikelo on your successful bid to join our august group
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: congrats indeed to the new victims, I mean, representatives!
[10:02] Rose Springvale: ah, here comes mikelo...
[10:02] Rose Springvale: welcome Mikelo
[10:02] Lilith Ivory: yea congratz to you both
[10:02] Mikelo Serevi: hi, still rezzing
[10:02] Keila Forager: Thanks
[10:03] Rose Springvale: Delia said she'd be here to do the swearing in, so come on up and take your seat, when she gets here... (and she just logged on) we'll do that
[10:03] Mikelo Serevi: I hope I dont'run over anyone
[10:03] Rose Springvale: You can see the results of the 7 day voting on the agenda, so congrat to cindy as our new RA Archivist.
[10:03] Rose Springvale: Are there additions or corrections to the agenda?
[10:03] Lilith Ivory: congrats Cindy
[10:03] Callipygian Christensen: Who was in charge of putting the whoopee cushions on Keila and Mikelo's seats?
[10:03] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:04] Rose Springvale: SL
[10:04] Rose Springvale:
[10:04] Keila Forager: Too late Calli..hehe
[10:04] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Mikelo
[10:04] Mikelo Serevi: hi
[10:04] Pip Torok: hi Mikelo ... congrats and welcome
[10:04] Mikelo Serevi: thx pip
[10:05] Rose Springvale: smiles, here comes delia
[10:05] Rose Springvale: we are ready for you Delia
[10:06] Delia Lake: sorry. still rezzing
[10:06] Delia's translator: lo siento. Todavía rezzing
[10:06] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Delia, Hi Rosie
[10:06] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi soro
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: good morning Delia
[10:06] Pip Torok: hi Soro
[10:06] Soro Dagostino: Hello all
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hi Soro and Rosie too!
[10:06] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Kas, didn't notice you
[10:06] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Arria
[10:06] Pip Torok: good evening Delia!
[10:06] muhammedyussif Wikinger: hi
[10:06] Rosie Gray: Hi Gwyn
[10:06] Kaseido Quandry: lol, hi TOr
[10:07] Kaseido Quandry: have some more coffee!
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmmh coffee
[10:07] Tor Karlsvalt: Yes, I might need some again
[10:07] Arria Perreault: Hi all
[10:07] muhammedyussif Wikinger: hi
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Arria, hello!
[10:08] Rose Springvale: hi arria... everyone. We are waiting for delia to administer the oath the keila and mikelo
[10:08] Tor Karlsvalt: I read recently five cups a day helps you live longer
[10:08] Lilith Ivory: omg I will become way old
[10:08] Delia Lake: ok. i think i'm enough rezzed
[10:08] Tor Karlsvalt thinks he is supposed to be quiet.
[10:09] Kaseido Quandry snickers
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You look fine to me, Delia... I can even recognise your favourite jewelry designer
[10:09] Delia Lake: We have two new members of the CDS RA, Keila Forager and Mikelo Serevi
[10:10] Delia Lake: as Dean of the SC, I am honored to welcome them to the government and to present to each the Affirmation of Office
[10:10] Delia Lake: if you would repeat please
[10:11] Delia Lake: I [name], having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability,
[10:11] Delia Lake: that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[10:11] Delia Lake: Keila, then Mikelo please?
[10:11] Keila Forager: I , Keila Forager, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[10:12] Mikelo Serevi: I Mikelo Serevi, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[10:12] Delia Lake: Thank you both for serving
[10:12] Rose Springvale: yay! congrtulations! thanks Delia
[10:12] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[10:12] Mikelo Serevi: Thank Delia
[10:12] Sonja Strom: Congratulations!
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: congratulations to both, and welcome!!!
[10:12] Arria Perreault: welcome to both
[10:12] Keila Forager: TY
[10:12] Sonja Strom: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[10:12] Pip Torok: Yes, congratulations to both of you
[10:12] Rose Springvale: hi Cindy :0
[10:12] Lilith Ivory: congratulations
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and hi to Cindy as well!)
[10:13] Rosie Gray applauds
[10:13] Rosie Gray: clap clap clap
[10:13] Cindy Ecksol waves to all
[10:13] Lilith Ivory: hi Cindy
[10:13] Keila Forager: Hi Cindy
[10:13] Cindy Ecksol: sorry I'm late
[10:13] Tor Karlsvalt: Contrats Mikelo and Keila
[10:13] Rose Springvale: Okay, not to be pushy but we are ready for commission reports, and as Gwyneth has some time constraints, we'll go directly to Elections
[10:13] Rose Springvale: Gwyn, take it away
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ha...
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, we have postponed some discussions for today, right?
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps since everybody had some time to reflect on that, we can see what we have left to discuss
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn searches for hernotes
[10:14] Rose Springvale: we have three items...
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:14] Rose Springvale: they are listed on the agenda, along with the language you proposed
[10:14] Rose Springvale: at the end
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you hehe
[10:15] Rose Springvale: Campaigning Act first
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. If I remember correctly,
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Delia made a comment on the Campaigning Act,
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: regarding the following sentence: "Campaigning ought to be supervised by the SC as they see fit"
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and (correctly, I believe) said that this is "too vague".
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So how should we rephrase it?
[10:16] Pip Torok: suggest "will be" or "is to be"
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (the idea was pretty much to give a SC a free hand — just attributing a responsibility which is not clear in the Const)
[10:17] Rose Springvale: "Final interpretation of the campaigning act shall be vested in the SC?
[10:17] Cindy Ecksol likes that a lot better
[10:17] Pip Torok: yes ... better than mine imo
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, not only the act itself.... its application too
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: unless what you said, Rose, is legalese for what I meant
[10:17] Soro Dagostino raises hand
[10:17] Rose Springvale: interpretation of the applications
[10:17] Rose Springvale: application
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.... shall we hear Soro?
[10:18] Delia Lake raises her hand
[10:18] Rose Springvale: sure
[10:18] Soro Dagostino: Strike "Final"
[10:18] Rose Springvale: good
[10:18] Cindy Ecksol: I'd also like to make a coment on #1
[10:18] Cindy Ecksol: I'd move that we strike the word "officially"
[10:18] Rose Springvale: okay, lets finish this one?
[10:18] Cindy Ecksol: sorry...
[10:18] Cindy Ecksol: thought we were
[10:19] Pip Torok agrees with Cindy
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well... ok, Soro's suggestion would be " interpretation of the application ofthe campaigning act shall be vested in the SC"
[10:20] Rose Springvale: so gwyn, the proposed amended language would be "Interpretation of the application of the Campaigning Act shall be vested in the SC."
[10:20] Rose Springvale: lol
[10:20] Rose Springvale: gmta
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes hehe
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[10:20] Rose Springvale: that would replace 2
[10:20] Kaseido Quandry: that's good
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: at least the first sentence (before the comma)
[10:20] Rose Springvale: i think the second sentence is kind of given...
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, redundant I guess
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm happy to move to amend 2 to become just: "Interpretation of the application of the Campaigning Act shall be vested in the SC."
[10:21] Delia Lake raises her hand and asks to speak
[10:21] Rose Springvale: other thoughts?
[10:21] Cindy Ecksol: second
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Delia & Cindy next
[10:21] Rose Springvale: k go on Delia
[10:21] Delia Lake: re 2. and the SC
[10:21] Delia Lake: I did make a post on the Forum
[10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... 026#p16278 right?
[10:22] Delia Lake: as it is, the SC is tasked with administering areas over which the SC has no control such as campaigning signs and use of group announcements
[10:23] Rose Springvale: and there are no repercussions for failure to comply
[10:23] Delia Lake: so, "as it sees fit" probably is not something that could be effectively implemented
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Rose. Hmm.
[10:24] Rose Springvale: perhaps the sc would get jurisdiction upon complaint by a citizen
[10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, Delia! Perhaps the wording is unfortunate. The meaning is mostly that if there are any questions about any issue during the campaigning, the SC is the branch to appeal for complaints.
[10:24] Rose Springvale: but should the remedy be disqualification from the election if determined to be non compliant?
[10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: On point 5, it's the Executive that is tasked with doing actual work.
[10:24] Delia Lake: well, Rose, the campaigns don't run very long, a couple of weeks at the most. if there were complaints to deal with that would delay the election
[10:25] Rose Springvale: name recognistion is a well known method of campaigning, and bad press is still press
[10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:25] Tor Karlsvalt: I don't think that is a good idea, rose
[10:25] Rose Springvale: what do you all propose?
[10:25] Rose Springvale: we need the law to have teeth
[10:25] Tor Karlsvalt: The SC would be too embroiled in politics then
[10:26] Keila Forager: I disagree Tor, there needs to be a consequence or we could all just do what ever we wanted..
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I speak only for myself here, but my point is that the SC, if they THINK that the campaigning is off limits, should be able to stop things... but perhaps only act upon actual complaints.
[10:26] Cindy Ecksol: /e agrees with Tor
[10:26] Rose Springvale: so how do they get that power Gwyn?
[10:26] Delia Lake: the SC is fine with administering the voting booths and the tallying of vote count and the census
[10:26] Delia Lake: but actual campaigning????
[10:26] Rose Springvale: SC is the only "unaffiliated group"...
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They oversee the application of this Campaigning Act and are allowed to act upon complaints...
[10:26] Rose Springvale: yes
[10:26] Rose Springvale: so... fines?
[10:27] Rose Springvale: limitation of voting for a period time in RA?
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: fines is great hehe
[10:27] Rose Springvale: public stocks?
[10:27] Rose Springvale:
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: public humiliation!!!
[10:27] Delia Lake: that would only work if it is very clear what is allowed and what is not allowed in campaigning
[10:27] Tor Karlsvalt: I like humiliation, or censure
[10:27] Rose Springvale: well, i think if someoen starts dropping a dozen notecards, they are clearly in violation
[10:27] Soro Dagostino raises hand
[10:27] Rose Springvale: and should lose notice power?
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You're right, Delia, We just defined ONE rule really — #3
[10:27] Keila Forager: Some people can't be humiliated..hehe
[10:28] Pip Torok: and if naming and shaming actually shames .....
[10:28] Mikelo Serevi: the possibility of getting disqualified from the election is more likely to work
[10:28] Rose Springvale: yes soro?
[10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no wait, #4 too)
[10:28] Delia Lake looks out the window at the stocks below
[10:28] Soro Dagostino: Double the tier of the transgressor.
[10:28] Keila Forager: I agree Mikelo.. but maybe 3 strikes and your out
[10:28] Rose Springvale: i'd reather do straight fines if its goign to be monetary
[10:28] Mikelo Serevi: so you can break the rules twice, great
[10:28] Kaseido Quandry: Keila, that's good, and helps minimize the prospect of charges and counter-charges as an election tactic
[10:29] Rose Springvale: 3 violations in a two week period sort of defeats the limits
[10:29] Keila Forager: Some rules aren't clear, as I found out this election..
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: of course won't spamming work against a candidate?
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: theoretically...
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: let the voters decide.
[10:29] Keila Forager: Not necessarily Tor..
[10:29] Rose Springvale: see above re "name recognition"
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in practice, spam DOES work iRL.
[10:29] Rose Springvale: yep
[10:29] Keila Forager: exactly Rose, that is how I voted my first election (((
[10:30] Pip Torok: so "theres no such thing as bad publicity" won't work here?
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt: right keila but the second time in my first election I just voted my mind
[10:30] Rose Springvale: okay, we are at time. I think we need to send this back to committee
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:30] Kaseido Quandry: agreed -it's not cookies yet
[10:30] Rose Springvale: to determine enforcement options
[10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn mumbles but complies...
[10:30] Rose Springvale: sorry gwyn. Do we need to vote to send it back?
[10:31] Arria Perreault: A question
[10:31] Keila Forager thinks fines are a good consequence and adds money to CDS
[10:31] Rose Springvale: go ahead Arria
[10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But you're right, there are a lot of possibilities. Note that so far we have almost zero laws dealing wih fines, we leave that to the SC to decide under common law...
[10:31] Arria Perreault: "Candidates would be allowed ONE group notice, with an attached notecard, announcing their candidacy and stating their platform; no further campaigning/political group notices are allowed." Is it only menat for the CDS group?
[10:31] Arria Perreault: meant*
[10:31] Rose Springvale: all official CDS groups i think, right?
[10:31] Tor Karlsvalt: but fines might be just seen as a campaign cost
[10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Official channel, Arria. We don't know yet (do we?) what channels have been defined as the official CDS groups
[10:32] Mikelo Serevi agrees with Tor
[10:32] Arria Perreault: it would help to have a list
[10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We will! From the Comms Committee!
[10:32] Arria Perreault: for example, any citizen who has a FB access can post in the FB page
[10:32] Arria Perreault: no need to get an access
[10:33] Rose Springvale: i think all the sim groups. Yes. lets send it back to the Committee to look this over. Also i don't think the SC has authority to impose fines, maybe they can give us some thoughts on what they need and want?
[10:33] Kaseido Quandry: is there actually a question about which groups qualify? And this is clearly addressed to sim groups.
[10:33] Arria Perreault: the law is not clear
[10:33] Rose Springvale: clearly a lot of questions open. lets move on
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Arria. And who knows, next year LL might add new communication features and such. The idea is that this law won't need to change; we will just have a list of "official CDS channels" listed on the Comms Act or so.
[10:33] Rose Springvale: Gwyn will call another meeting i'm sure
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins — I'm free tomorrow hehe
[10:33] Rose Springvale: lol
[10:33] Arria Perreault: yes, I am fine with a list
[10:34] Rose Springvale: Chancellor Election Act?
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: wb cindy
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In any case, Arria, THIS law will NOT list ALL channels, or it will just duplicate what's on the Comms Act (when approved)
[10:34] Cindy Ecksol: sorry, bad crash -- what did I miss?
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Campaigning Act moved back to committee
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: sending elections back to committee
[10:35] Arria Perreault: maybe a last comment
[10:35] Cindy Ecksol: ah, ok!
[10:35] Rose Springvale: needs more work ... campaigning. Can it go to the committee so we can keep this meeting going?
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with that, Rose
[10:35] Rose Springvale: okay, go on Gwyn
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: can we listen to Arria's comment first, if it's short?...
[10:36] Rose Springvale: smile
[10:36] Arria Perreault: we should write "Each candidate are allowed" instead of "Each candidate should be allowed". Same for the next sentence. It looks a bit optionnal with "should"
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:36] Rose Springvale: thanks arria. The committee will consider that i'm sure
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh... ok, you're right. Sorry about my messy grammar!
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right, Chancellor Act
[10:36] Arria Perreault:
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: from the discussions on the forums...
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we have at least 2 things to decide.
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One is technical, pointed out by Jamie, which is clarifying if someone was Chancellor for 12 months can be RA on the imemdiately following term
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no, 3
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the other 2 points come from Pat...
[10:38] Rose Springvale: gwyn, this is the first reading, perhaps you can start at the beginning ?
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ooooh
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: SORRY
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: you're so right haha
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My apologies
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, some background first then.
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You know that the RA has slowly moved from being paranoid to have "a single person with all power" (in the past, we had NO executive),
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to understand that some things are really best served with someone that can ACT.
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus the Executive.
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now... when this branch was created,
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the RA was faction.-based
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: people voted for ideas, not people
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (weird as it might sound )
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we felt that we should follow a more Parliamentarian model.
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Factions would not only suggest a list of candidates,
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but also a Chancellor
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the idea being that the winning faction would also pick their Chancellor
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the RA would be very closely aligned with the Chancellor
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: having a common plan so to speak
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Chancellor would execute a plan that would have been ideologically approved by a majority of citizens that put a faction into power.
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now...
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have abolished faction-voting,
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the notion that we vote for manifests and a formal group of people
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus, it makes no sense at all,
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that the RA becomes somehow a "collegial electorate" that picks a Chancellor,
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: since it actually means that X different people, with different dieas from the citizens that elected them, would just pick one Chancellor — not related to actual voter's preferences.
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So... the committee worked on an alternative system,
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: where citizens preferences are not only made for RA members,
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but also for the Chancellor they wish to have.

[Rose Springvale]

[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Whew. Sorry for the long rant. The idea is that teh Chancellor ought now to be picked by ALL citizens,
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: not just a small elite ...
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: A further suggestion also got consensus...
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One term is really too short for a good Chancellor
[10:43] Mikelo Serevi: Although, couldn't it be said that the RA does reflect citizen preferences, even without factions?
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not really, Mikelo, because the # of votes is not tied to actual seats.
[10:44] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Sol
[10:44] Solomon Mosely: hello
[10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g someone might have 90% of all votes in teh CDS but just get one seat at the RA and NOT have 90% of the votes for Chancellor, but just one.
[10:45] Solomon Mosely accepted your inventory offer.
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is really no direct way to reflect citizens' preferences in the Chancellor election IF it is just done inside the RA.
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Factionless models have *some* disadvantages....
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway!
[10:45] Rose Springvale: do you want to discuss the idea first, then go to the details?
[10:45] Arria Perreault: (factions were not abolished ...)
[10:46] Arria Perreault: I have some questions/remarks
[10:46] Rose Springvale: lets let gwyn finish first... then we'll open for discussion
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, I think that in general this is the idea. Then we can go to the details.
[10:46] Rose Springvale: okay
[10:46] Rose Springvale: Arria, go ahead
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I'm fine in discussing things in general now.
[10:46] Arria Perreault: thank you
[10:47] Arria Perreault: I give my 3 rmearks/questions together
[10:48] Arria Perreault: 1. even the Chancellor can be elected by citizen, he/she can still be removed by the RA with a 2/3 majority. Is it so?
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes!
[10:48] Arria Perreault: 2. Are there any ideas to avoid people who would work in tandem ? Can a Chancellor be candidiate two years later?
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2a. I don't understand; 2b. yes
[10:50] Tor Karlsvalt: no Gwyw, I htink she is saying that two ppl could agree to trade the position
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[10:50] Rose Springvale: did you want to follow up Arria?
[10:50] Arria Perreault: 3. A more general remark about people who are candidates. This remard could also concern RA candidates. Can someone run for a governmental position if he/she have such a position in an other SL community
[10:50] Arria Perreault: 2b: Tor is correct
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aha GOOD question!
[10:50] Pip Torok: or perhaps a "Mom and Pop" scheme
[10:51] Rose Springvale: popular vote would make tht only work if the people agreed
[10:51] Arria Perreault: there are some example in rl
[10:51] Mikelo Serevi: good points, Arria
[10:51] Arria Perreault: I> am done with my questions
[10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: very,very good points, although Rose has a point too
[10:52] Tor Karlsvalt: right pip
[10:52] Mikelo Serevi: Well, there are ways to manipulate the public as well, like the name recognition we spoke of
[10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, the first question is easily answered... on 1, yes, the RA is still able to remove the Chancellor at any time with a 2/3 vote, just as before.
[10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: AND the vetoes are still in place too! (remember: the Chancellor can veto ANY law passed by the RA!)
[10:52] Kaseido Quandry: either you trust the democratic electorate, or you don't
[10:53] Mikelo Serevi: true Kas
[10:53] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree Kas
[10:53] Cindy Ecksol: wait...does that mean that the Chancellor can veto his/her own removal?
[10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Except that one, Cindy hehe
[10:53] Tor Karlsvalt: haha, Cindy,
[10:53] Mikelo Serevi: lol
[10:53] Kaseido Quandry: good one!
[10:53] Tor Karlsvalt: never thought of that
[10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think this is a rare case where we actually have been thorough on the egislation!
[10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *legislation
[10:54] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: On point 2a, well... I think that it's certainly possible for 2 or more people to "trade places", but that would naturally mean that a majority of citziens would have to agree with that "arrangement".... since they would still be eelcted, friends or no friends
[10:54] Tor Karlsvalt: just call it King then
[10:54] Cindy Ecksol: no way, gwyn....any legislation will always have unexpected side effects
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I'm sure you're right Cindy hehe — but yes, originally that was figured out and is in teh legislation, and this proposal doesn't change it)
[10:55] Rose Springvale: yes, and that's kind of what happened with the faction system
[10:55] Cindy Ecksol:
[10:55] Rose Springvale: friends were able to succeed one another so long as the faction was reelected, yes?
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: more nails on the coffin, Rose?
[10:55] Rose Springvale: no nails gwy
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
[10:56] Tor Karlsvalt: might need a wooden stake too
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: remember, factions were elected for ideas, not for who actually were part of it... anyway, that discussion is one year old, dead, biroed, and smelly
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *buried even
[10:56] Rose Springvale: (ideally)
[10:56] Mikelo Serevi: well, it was still people
[10:56] Rose Springvale: what is that third issue?
[10:56] Keila Forager: read my mind Rose
[10:56] Mikelo Serevi: the factions just allowed us to see where they stood, like in RL
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: people embodying ideas
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, ok, no more faction discussion please... lol
[10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm falling into this trap!
[10:57] Rose Springvale: uh huh, and i'm watching the clock
[10:57] Rose Springvale: i'll just throw out the CDS has no jurisdiction over what anyone does outside CDS
[10:58] Arria Perreault: Rose, SL is a world
[10:58] Rose Springvale: yes, but CDS is one project
[10:58] Arria Perreault: can someone be in a parliament of 2 countries
[10:58] Mikelo Serevi: Ijust mean, imagine is someone tried to abolish RL political parties
[10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
[10:58] Mikelo Serevi: if
[10:58] Pip Torok: yes ... in england and scotland
[10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh! nice one, Pip!
[10:59] Arria Perreault: weused ask RA member to declare their interests
[10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I didn't know that!
[10:59] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Arria, and to the best of my knowledge, that is still part of the legislation I think
[10:59] Arria Perreault: well, they both belong to the same entity
[10:59] Delia Lake thinks this analogy doesn't hold water as there is not the same kind of power in sl as there is in rl
[10:59] Rose Springvale: nor geographic limitations.
[10:59] Kaseido Quandry: nor is SL based on sovereign nations
[11:00] Mikelo Serevi: power is power
[11:00] Soro Dagostino: Its whatever LL allows that day.
[11:00] Kaseido Quandry: what's the actual issue here?
[11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, my personal problem with limiting how candidates are selected based on their interests on other groups, organisations, communities etc. is that it's impossible to figure out alts...
[11:00] Rose Springvale: but it doesn't ahve anything to do with CDS...
[11:00] Arria Perreault: I think the Chancellor should at least declare his/her interests
[11:00] Kaseido Quandry: we can't make people declare they're not too busy to do the job
[11:01] Rose Springvale: alts or conflicts. We do have a group who are supposed to be looking at conflicts, i suggest we leave that to them to discuss?
[11:01] Delia Lake: why should we care? what would be the implications?
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kas, I think that the main issue is that a Chancellor that acts as an agent for a different community might just be pushing people over. Imagine if Desmond gets an alt, joins the CDS, and secretely tries to get elected, so we all change the theme here to steampunk...
[11:01] Rose Springvale: elected democracy means ... elected
[11:01] Kaseido Quandry: I think we have sufficient checks and balances, gods know
[11:01] Arria Perreault: yes, the Chancellor is our agent to deal with other communities
[11:02] Arria Perreault: we do have "foreign affairs"
[11:02] Keila Forager: I think if someone is elected to do a "job " for CDS, then regardless of other interests, CDS should be a priority. If it can't be, then they shouldn't run for office..
[11:02] Solomon Mosely: well then if the people here want steampunk, then who cares?
[11:02] Delia Lake: and the Chancellor can me impeached if required
[11:02] Rose Springvale: so are we going to eliminate gwyn for her relationship to Beta, Sonja for Arosa, Sudane for SLNE?
[11:02] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree with Kas, and if the ppl wanted that, how would we agrue againt a theme change anyway?
[11:02] Cindy Ecksol: well, rememerb....the RA still will have the ability to eject a chancellor if he/she starts running off in a direction the community doesn't like
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only thing I can say, Arria, is that if a certain Chancellor is seen as acting contrary to the interests of the CDS, the RA can vote them out, if their actions are blatantly obvious...
[11:02] Pip Torok: in effect the Chancellor will be someone we all know the track record of ...
[11:02] Arria Perreault: Keila, we do expect this from people. The law is here to make sure it is the case
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Cindy... exactly.... we DID argue this before.... over 2 years ago
[11:02] Cindy Ecksol: yep!
[11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: was it three? I remember you bringing up the exact poiint, Cindy!
[11:03] Tor Karlsvalt: unlikely and alt will gain so much support for the position too.
[11:03] Arria Perreault: why to be so strict with notecards in campaigning and not with conflicts of interest?
[11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or perhaps it's just déja vu lol
[11:03] Solomon Mosely: you're not suggewsting that just one or two people could sway and manipulate the will of the CDS people?
[11:03] Rose Springvale: folks
[11:03] Rose Springvale: the issue here is direct election of chancellor
[11:03] Mikelo Serevi: So, perhaps contrast would help, what does this new law change?
[11:03] Tor Karlsvalt: I am for it.
[11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Mikelo. Good approach indeed.
[11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So...
[11:03] Rose Springvale: not ethics, conflicts etc. all those arguments apply now
[11:04] Rose Springvale: yes, thanks
[11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The biggest change: instead of having RA members electing the Chancellor, all the CDS citizens vote for their Chancellor.
[11:04] Mikelo Serevi: well, besides the obvious direct election
[11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
[11:04] Arria Perreault: I think that the universal suffrage of the Chancellor will give extra power to this position
[11:04] Tor Karlsvalt: Yes, and the ppl are the ultimate check on the RA
[11:04] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I think it is better if RA elects chansellor
[11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The second change: Chancellors have 12-month-terms, and then cannot get reelected (they'd have to wait a year)
[11:04] Tor Karlsvalt: this is good
[11:04] Arria Perreault: I am not against this. I would like to balance this power a bit
[11:04] Pip Torok: certainly more legitimacy, imho
[11:04] Cindy Ecksol: how would you balance it more Arria?
[11:05] Mikelo Serevi: I've considered this, Arria
[11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The rest of the changes are procedurl, e.g. aligning the start of term and so forth
[11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *procedural
[11:05] Delia Lake: how so, Arria? the Chancellor/Exec is still regulated by the Consistution and the Code of Laws
[11:05] Rose Springvale: remember we will only have 5 or 7 individuals in the next RA, given current population numbers
[11:05] Mikelo Serevi: Well, for example, what is the current term limit for chancellor?
[11:05] Mikelo Serevi: Is there one?
[11:05] Rose Springvale: so we are placing this decision in the hands of 4 people
[11:05] Arria Perreault: I totally agree with the 12 months. A possible effect could be to have a chancellor who has to work with a RA with different opinion
[11:05] Rose Springvale: no limits now
[11:05] Keila Forager: My only question about terms is, what if there is no one to run for chancellor?
[11:05] Pip Torok: atm there isnt one, Mikelo
[11:05] Tor Karlsvalt: This would also make it unlikely that a member of RA would stand for elecetion to chancellor
[11:05] Arria Perreault: it's proportional to our size
[11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Tor, good point!
[11:06] Rose Springvale: good question Keila, but we've not had that issue yet
[11:06] Arria Perreault: Tor made a good remark
[11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Keila, GOOD question!
[11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm! Tricky!
[11:06] Arria Perreault: we should solve this point. It happened several times
[11:06] Keila Forager: Just looking ahead..LOL
[11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we'll randomly pick a Chancellor out of all citizens!
[11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[11:07] Pip Torok: well then the present chancellor would carry on!
[11:07] Rose Springvale: given the way the act is written, it would be a choice, run for chancellor or RA
[11:07] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I think the RA will be more rational and the CDS voters more emotional
[11:07] Rose Springvale: and RA continues to be elected in 6 month intervals
[11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Rose
[11:07] Rose Springvale thinks RA gets emotional
[11:07] Tor Karlsvalt: term limits seem contrary to the old chancellor carring on
[11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well perhaps, muhammed, the question is if it's more fair for all the citizens?
[11:07] Keila Forager: That would have to be writtien in Pip..
[11:07] muhammedyussif Wikinger:
[11:08] Pip Torok: I agree, Keila
[11:08] Cindy Ecksol thinks term limits are a good thing....
[11:08] Rose Springvale: i think we should decide if we want direct election, then work on the term etc
[11:08] Mikelo Serevi: Well, the RA is in the know, while a population can sometimes be led by the nose
[11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Rose's suggestion.
[11:08] Tor Karlsvalt: lets vote on that then,
[11:08] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[11:08] Rose Springvale: if we dont' want direct election, we'll waste a lot of time debating things that won't matter
[11:08] Keila Forager: That's another issue Mikelo,
[11:08] Keila Forager: The population should be in the know
[11:08] Mikelo Serevi: I think we should consider the whole law, rather than try to push parts through
[11:08] Arria Perreault: it's a constitutional change
[11:09] Rose Springvale: Mikelo, i also think the Exec should be accountable to the people he/she serves, not the RA specifically
[11:09] Cindy Ecksol: Mikelo, the counter to that is that the RA can sometimes be very cliquish and do things that the community doesn't really want
[11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point. So perhaps we can have a motion to vote if we want direct Chancellor elections or not, and then discuss the specifics? (there are a few other points that were raised by jamie & Pat)
[11:09] Keila Forager: That's an understatement Cindy
[11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Keila
[11:09] Cindy Ecksol: including choosing an exec who does not represent the desires of the community
[11:09] Rose Springvale: lots of points on those specifics.
[11:09] Arria Perreault: I think the article should be more than a draft
[11:09] Lilith Ivory nods
[11:09] Mikelo Serevi: Well the exec is about efficiency now, and I think Arria is right that it might be more about power if directly elected
[11:09] Tor Karlsvalt: To be trueling independant, the Chancellor is more independant and legitamate with direct election
[11:09] Rose Springvale: we can entertain a motion Gwyn, doesn't have to be the one on the card
[11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok---- motion to vote if we want direct Chancellor elections.
[11:10] Keila Forager: second
[11:10] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[11:10] Rose Springvale: okay!
[11:10] Arria Perreault: the chancellor elected by citizen could remove any RA law
[11:10] Rose Springvale: discussion on this motion
[11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ironically, this motion needs a 2/3 majority because it implies a Const. change
[11:10] Soro Dagostino: By all, RL calls
[11:10] Keila Forager: chancellor can do that now Arria
[11:10] Tor Karlsvalt: call the question
[11:10] Rose Springvale: bye Soro
[11:10] Cindy Ecksol: wait....there is no "bill" here....
[11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (see you, Keila!)
[11:10] Rose Springvale: okay
[11:10] Arria Perreault: Gwyn, this is a constituttional change
[11:10] Rose Springvale: Question has been called
[11:10] Cindy Ecksol: nor constitutional change per se
[11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Arria!
[11:10] Mikelo Serevi: I don't think we should railroad this, it's a big change
[11:10] Arria Perreault: do you have a text to propose after our discussion
[11:10] Cindy Ecksol: and ifthere is, we should NOT be voting now.....
[11:10] Cindy Ecksol: no text....
[11:10] Solomon Mosely: also, we havent talked about the election process for chancellor, have we? with campaign standards?
[11:10] Kaseido Quandry: this has been in discussion for months
[11:10] Cindy Ecksol: exactly....
[11:11] Rose Springvale: All in favor of direct election of the chancellor, signify by saying aye
[11:11] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[11:11] Rose Springvale: motion called folks
[11:11] Cindy Ecksol: can we do this vote as a "preference poll" an dthen send back to committee for text?
[11:11] Solomon Mosely: that would help create a balancer to allow the people to get the RA's poersepective in debates, etc...
[11:11] Lilith Ivory: aye
[11:11] Rose Springvale: motion seconded, and called, sorry
[11:11] Solomon Mosely: AYE
[11:11] Arria Perreault: give us the text for the constitution
[11:11] Keila Forager: aye
[11:11] Pip Torok: aye
[11:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: motions can be single-line phrases so, aye
[11:11] Cindy Ecksol: abstain on the grounds that I cannot vote for a motion that changes the constitution and has no text
[11:11] muhammedyussif Wikinger: nay
[11:11] Mikelo Serevi: nay, I don't like how this is being done
[11:12] Arria Perreault: abstains (for the same reason than Cindy)
[11:12] Tor Karlsvalt: aue
[11:12] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[11:12] Mikelo Serevi: We neeed to vote on a whole law, not force votes to squeeze parts through
[11:12] Cindy Ecksol: nor did we have discussion on the motion....
[11:12] Rose Springvale: has everyone voted?
[11:12] Rose Springvale: guys, we have procedure, if you don't like the motion, vote against it.
[11:12] Tor Karlsvalt: we will still have to vote on the final amendment anyway.
[11:13] Mikelo Serevi: I motion we roll back the previos vote
[11:13] Cindy Ecksol: that's right....we have procedure!
[11:13] Cindy Ecksol: you called for the vote before calling for discussion on the motion!
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm.
[11:13] Mikelo Serevi: until we can complete discussion
[11:13] Rose Springvale: the vote was not called by me
[11:13] Arria Perreault: I don't think we can vote a constitutional change without a text. I will go to ask the SC
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: "blame it on me"
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn loves to quote Philip Linden
[11:13] Cindy Ecksol: you are the only one who has th epower to call the vote rose
[11:13] Tor Karlsvalt: i called it
[11:13] Cindy Ecksol: if soeone else called it, it is not valid.
[11:14] Cindy Ecksol: unless you say so
[11:14] Arria Perreault: right
[11:14] Rose Springvale: we are now at 7 in favor
[11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[11:14] Mikelo Serevi: well, I think if a motion is seconded, rose has to call a vote
[11:14] Tor Karlsvalt: question for the LRA
[11:14] Cindy Ecksol: no....she has to call for DISCUSSION first!
[11:14] Kaseido Quandry: this has been on the agenda for 2 RA meetings, 3 committee meetings, and has seen an active discussion on the forum. And the concept is not a complicated one.
[11:14] Tor Karlsvalt: won't we have to vote on the final amendment?
[11:14] Cindy Ecksol: THEN a vote when we close discussion
[11:14] Arria Perreault: or to open the discussion
[11:14] Mikelo Serevi: I have to question what the agenda for this law is, who stands to benefit?
[11:14] Cindy Ecksol: this was a brand-new, off the cuff motion to change the constitution, not a previously discussed detailed bill!
[11:14] Mikelo Serevi: the people pushing the law through perchance?
[11:15] Arria Perreault: Kas, we don't have a text to vote wit all details
[11:15] Cindy Ecksol: we don't even have citations on which articles will change and other things that might be affected.
[11:15] Arria Perreault: it's not serious for the RA

[Rose Springvale]

[11:15] Tor Karlsvalt: i disagree, it has been discussed for some time
[11:15] Cindy Ecksol: c'mon guys, let's be real here....
[11:15] Rose Springvale: order please
[11:15] Cindy Ecksol: which "it" Tor?
[11:15] Rose Springvale: we had a motion
[11:15] Rose Springvale: we had a second
[11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well... it's not unusual to call for a general vote and only go into specifics later...
[11:15] Rose Springvale: we had a call of the question
[11:15] Cindy Ecksol: yes....and then we did NOT have discussion on THAT motion!
[11:15] Rose Springvale: no one is trying to push anything
[11:15] Arria Perreault: Tor, the legislative work need details
[11:15] Rose Springvale: call of the question means NO discussion
[11:15] Rose Springvale: our vote here now
[11:15] Mikelo Serevi: Fine, so let's vote for whole laws with text then
[11:15] Tor Karlsvalt: OK we were breaking this down by sections
[11:16] Kaseido Quandry: there's no point doing detailed work if the basic concept doesn't have 2/3 support
[11:16] Arria Perreault: I suggest our vote was a mandate to the committee to work in this direction
[11:16] Rose Springvale: 8-2-2 i think?
[11:16] Tor Karlsvalt: the only issue was if we should have direct election in the amendment to the const.
[11:16] Cindy Ecksol for once agrees with Arria
[11:16] Arria Perreault: not a constitutional change
[11:16] Pip Torok agrees with Arria
[11:16] Arria Perreault:
[11:16] Cindy Ecksol: TOr, that "issue" requires constitutional change....
[11:16] Rose Springvale: which implies that the RA as a whole supports direct election, but wants to play with the language
[11:16] Rose Springvale: please
[11:16] Rose Springvale: order
[11:16] Cindy Ecksol: if it's a PREFERENCE vote, that's one thing...and I'd be voting in favor
[11:16] Rose Springvale: 8 is not 2/3 of 13
[11:16] Cindy Ecksol: but I will NOT vote in favor of a constitutional change that has no wording!
[11:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, neither will I!
[11:17] Rose Springvale: we need 9 to pass so we can either go back to discussion or continue to grandstand
[11:17] Mikelo Serevi: exactly, cindy
[11:17] Cindy Ecksol: let's go back to discussion...and do it properly next time.
[11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: Rose, would we still have a vote on the entire amendment to the const.
[11:17] Rose Springvale: guys, all i did was procedureal! gwyn made the motion
[11:17] Rose Springvale: So
[11:17] Rose Springvale: gwyn
[11:18] Pip Torok: if only 8 of 13 have voted for, then this is all theory! .....
[11:18] Rose Springvale: do you want to resume discussion?
[11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, because the point is, if we can't even get a supermajority to agree with direct Chancellor elections, we don't even need to discuss it further.
[11:18] Rose Springvale: agrees.
[11:18] Arria Perreault: Gwyn, did you mean to change the constitutuion today without text?
[11:18] Kaseido Quandry: exactly!
[11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: why waste time then?
[11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Arria, lol
[11:18] Rose Springvale: well, we are at time
[11:18] Arria Perreault: or did you ask for a mandate fpr your commission?
[11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the proposed text is in the notecard.
[11:18] Rose Springvale: so we can roll this over to thursday
[11:18] Kaseido Quandry: "Art II, Section 5 - Deleted and replaced with:
1. The Chancellor of the CDS shall be elected by universal suffrage of all citizens from among any CDS citizen who shall make application to the RA."
[11:19] Arria Perreault: we did not discuss any detail
[11:19] Tor Karlsvalt: Well this can be an issue for the next RA elections perhaps.
[11:19] Rose Springvale: we will meet at noon on thursday to continue the electyiral commission
[11:19] Rose Springvale: thank you gwyn
[11:19] Arria Perreault: there was a lot of questions/remarks and the text was not cahnged
[11:19] Rose Springvale: moving on now
[11:19] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[11:19] Rose Springvale: yes?
[11:19] Arria Perreault: doesnt it mean that committee are making our job?
[11:19] Cindy Ecksol: as archivist, exactly how am I supposed to record this vote???
[11:19] Cindy Ecksol: is it a "law"?
[11:19] Cindy Ecksol: and if so, what is the text?
[11:20] Rose Springvale: you can pull it from the transcript.
[11:20] Rose Springvale: We are moving on to commission reports
[11:20] Cindy Ecksol: my point: there IS NO TEXT!
[11:20] Cindy Ecksol: we somehow changed the constitution...but no one knows how!
[11:20] Mikelo Serevi: I did motion to disregard the vote
[11:20] Cindy Ecksol: OR...this vote was "advisory"
[11:20] Rose Springvale: elections commission will continue on thursday. there was a motion, and it did not pass
[11:20] Rose Springvale: neither
[11:21] Rose Springvale: it was of constitutional relevance and did not pass
[11:21] Rose Springvale: that's all on that
[11:21] Pip Torok: if 6 voted of 13 we havent changes anything Cindy
[11:21] Cindy Ecksol: ok....fine
[11:21] Rose Springvale: Commerce commission?
[11:21] Cindy Ecksol: next...
[11:21] Pip Torok: (6=8)
[11:21] Rose Springvale: Lilith do you have a report?
[11:21] Lilith Ivory smiles
[11:21] Cindy Ecksol: I thought Gwyn's vote took us over the top
[11:21] Rose Springvale: no
[11:21] Arria Perreault: I suggest we clarify our rules of procesures about constitutional changes
[11:21] Lilith Ivory: not much to say since the last meeting
[11:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry
[11:22] Rose Springvale: Lilith has the floor now
[11:22] Lilith Ivory: my RL was quite troublesome lately so I had no time to figure out a proper time for a next meeting
[11:22] Lilith Ivory: wher we can discus how to bring all the good idea we collected into action
[11:22] Lilith Ivory:
[11:23] Rose Springvale: thank you lilith, when you figure it out, please post and announce?
[11:23] Lilith Ivory: sorry I can´t say more at the moment
[11:23] Lilith Ivory: I will for sure
[11:23] Rose Springvale: Citizenship commission, Arria?
[11:23] Arria Perreault: we had a good meeting on 10 August.
[11:24] Arria Perreault: Calli and I, we will work soon on a draft that the committee can discuss.
[11:24] Arria Perreault: As soon as the draft is ready, I will call the meeting
[11:24] Rose Springvale: thank you.
[11:24] Rose Springvale: Finance, Tor?
[11:24] Tor Karlsvalt: huh yeah
[11:25] Tor Karlsvalt: Alsas I have not had any meetings
[11:25] Arria Perreault: I have a question for Tor
[11:25] Tor Karlsvalt: however I can report that sudane has done great work
[11:25] Tor Karlsvalt: yes arria
[11:25] Arria Perreault: I would like we look the following case :
[11:27] Arria Perreault: when someone sell a land in the middle of a month and that the fees was already paid, would it possible to get the fees back for the half of the month and to charge the next owner
[11:27] Arria Perreault: ?
[11:27] Rose Springvale grimaces. Sudane will say no way
[11:27] Tor Karlsvalt: Thanks Arria. we can make that part of adgenda for the next meeting
[11:27] Kaseido Quandry: really?!
[11:27] Arria Perreault: thank you
[11:27] Keila Forager: Half the places I've lived in , in SL, say no way..lol
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: at least we will be able to get public opinoino on that question
[11:28] Rose Springvale: go on please Tor
[11:28] Arria Perreault: I don't mean technically.
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: but let me return to the new tier policy
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: Sonja has just posted the following to the forum at:
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3060
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:28] Pip Torok wd be interested in RL analagous precedence
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: 1. Tier is due in CDS on the 7th day of each month.
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: For the convenience of the parties, tier payment boxes will be open for tier payment on the 28th of the prior month (10 days prior to due date).
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: Tier is delinquent and boxes close for payment on the 12th day of the month (five days after due date). You must pay your tier to your box during this time.
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: 2. On the 13th of the month, parcels which remain unpaid will be repossessed.
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt: 3. On the 21st of the month, (two weeks after the due date) repossessed parcels will be cleared and resold.
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt: 4. If you know that you will be unable to be in world while the boxes are open, please contact the treasurer by notecard, email or im to arrange for prepayment, so that you don't lose your property.
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt: These new policies will become effective on September 1. Please be aware that as the law of the land they will be enforced.
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt: I will also create a notecard giver to place at the tier box loclocations that will provide this info in-world.
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:29] Kaseido Quandry: nicely done
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt: Sonja allowed me the honor of inserting this in the record.
[11:29] Rose Springvale: Thank you!
[11:29] Arria Perreault: can you give us the notecard?
[11:30] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[11:30] Rose Springvale: Anything else to report Tor?
[11:31] Rose Springvale: smiles
[11:31] Mikelo Serevi: wb gwyn
[11:31] Tor Karlsvalt gave you New Tier Policy Effective Sept 1 2010.
[11:31] Tor Karlsvalt: no
[11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn grumbles about her ISP
[11:31] Rose Springvale: thanks... if you want, we can put that in the box on the table
[11:32] Rose Springvale: okay, thank you! let us know when you call more meetings
[11:32] Tor Karlsvalt: Yes pls put it in the box
[11:32] Rose Springvale: but this is great work, thanks to the Exec, the Tresurer and the committee
[11:32] Tor Karlsvalt: um probably in the next few weeks
[11:32] Rose Springvale: Kas, Comms?
[11:32] Tor Karlsvalt: I hould have one before the fest
[11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn notices she missed all the fun lol
[11:32] Kaseido Quandry: The Chancellor's failure to implement the Communiations Act continues. Nothing the RA can do till that's resolved.
[11:33] Rose Springvale: we'll hear from the chancellor next, perhaps there will be a report on tht
[11:33] Rose Springvale: Thanks.
[11:33] Mikelo Serevi: What is it that needs to be done?
[11:33] Kaseido Quandry nods
[11:33] Kaseido Quandry: Implement the changes to notice access, primarily
[11:33] Rose Springvale: Sonja, Chancellors report next, floor is yours
[11:33] Sonja Strom: Thank you Rose
[11:34] Sonja Strom: Since the last Chancellors Report,
[11:35] Sonja Strom: Here in the CDS we have had a series of very fun events,
[11:35] Sonja Strom: including the Inaugural Ball,
[11:35] Sonja Strom: a Beach Party,
[11:35] Sonja Strom: and ongoing concerts in Locus Amoenus, weekly on Tuesdays.
[11:36] Sonja Strom: We are now organizing for Oktoberfest in Second Life, for from Sept. 18th to Oct. 4th.
[11:36] Sonja Strom: If you would like to help with events,
[11:36] Sonja Strom: please let Anna Toussaint or I know.
[11:36] Sonja Strom: As discussed here in the RA,
[11:37] Sonja Strom: the community has agreed it would be good to reparcel Alpine Meadow plot AH2
[11:37] Sonja Strom: into four smaller parcels,
[11:37] Sonja Strom: one for the prims and three for buildings.
[11:37] Sonja Strom: This issue has been brought to the New Guild,
[11:38] Sonja Strom: and discussed there at a preliminary level.
[11:38] Sonja Strom: Now it is an active item on the Guild agenda.
[11:39] Sonja Strom: Most likely over the course of the next few weeks,
[2010/08/21 11:39] Sonja Strom: the best way to do this reparcelling will be decided upon
[2010/08/21 11:39] Sonja Strom: and completed.
[2010/08/21 11:40] Sonja Strom: Thank you all very much for all of your work on new policies regarding nonpayment of tier
[2010/08/21 11:40] Sonja Strom: and the Land Sales Reclamation Act.
[2010/08/21 11:42] Sonja Strom: Especially we are thankful for the diligent and tireless work of Tor Karlsvalt,
[2010/08/21 11:42] Sonja Strom: who really is the one who kept this moving forward up to its completion.
[2010/08/21 11:42] Tor Karlsvalt:
[2010/08/21 11:43] Sonja Strom: Now agreement has been reached on them, and we are announcing the new policies today.
[2010/08/21 11:43] Rose Springvale: (applauds ALL our commission chairs.)
[2010/08/21 11:43] Sonja Strom applauds them all as well.
[2010/08/21 11:44] Sonja Strom: The Executive Branch has posted these new policies in the Forum, here:
[2010/08/21 11:44] Sonja Strom: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3060
[2010/08/21 11:44] Sonja Strom: as noted by Tor earlier when he spoke about this issue.
[2010/08/21 11:45] Sonja Strom: Once again, thanks to all of you for your work on this difficult issue,
[2010/08/21 11:45] Al Andalus Hoods Lot 28tier box: Al Andalus Hoods Lot 28 tier box @ Al Andalus Alhambra 211, 76, 51 - Joaquin Gustav paid L$2282. They now have 29 days, 23 hours, 51 minutes and 23 seconds remaining on their contract.
[2010/08/21 11:45] Sonja Strom: and your patience in getting it worked out.
[2010/08/21 11:46] Sonja Strom: The new policies are MUCH better than the old ones,
[2010/08/21 11:46] Sonja Strom: and will work much better from here,
[2010/08/21 11:46] Sonja Strom: that is,
[2010/08/21 11:47] Sonja Strom: after they come into effect on the 1st of September,
[2010/08/21 11:47] Sonja Strom: around ten days from today.
[2010/08/21 11:48] Sonja Strom: The PIO Anna Toussaint and I are working on written descriptions of the roles of the Excecutive communications team,
[2010/08/21 11:48] Sonja Strom: and how public noticifications should be made.
[2010/08/21 11:49] Sonja Strom: There is already an overall description posted on the CDS website, or web portal,
[2010/08/21 11:49] Sonja Strom: here: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=executive
[2010/08/21 11:50] Sonja Strom: Anna is assembling a PIO team, and has found some assistance.
[2010/08/21 11:50] Sonja Strom: As I have always said before,
[2010/08/21 11:50] Sonja Strom: and I will say it here once again,
[2010/08/21 11:51] Sonja Strom: for any public information question at all anyone may contact either Anna as PIO or I as Chancellor,
[2010/08/21 11:51] Sonja Strom: and we will be happy to help.
[2010/08/21 11:51] Rose Springvale: sonja, i know there are some questiosn, so can you wrap up so RA members can ask them please?
[2010/08/21 11:51] Kaseido Quandry: The RA has been awaiting reply to contact since July 29.
[2010/08/21 11:52] Sonja Strom: shall I stop giving the Report?
[2010/08/21 11:52] Rose Springvale: well, you have run out of time, I think lets have questions, and you can post whatever else you have
[2010/08/21 11:52] Rose Springvale: in the Exec thread perhaps
[2010/08/21 11:52] Sonja Strom: The schedule says I have 15 minutes.
[2010/08/21 11:53] Kaseido Quandry: You've had the floor from 11;33 to 11;52
[2010/08/21 11:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: should we vote to extend the RA meeting?
[2010/08/21 11:53] Sonja Strom: Has it been so long?
[2010/08/21 11:53] Rose Springvale: i'm on a tight schedule today so lets just proceed
[2010/08/21 11:53] Rose Springvale: yes, you have
[2010/08/21 11:53] Arria Perreault: I think we should listen what the Chancellor has to say
[2010/08/21 11:54] Arria Perreault: we have only one report a month
[2010/08/21 11:54] Sonja Strom: I can stop if you prefer.
[2010/08/21 11:54] Rose Springvale: fine, we will just limit concerns
[2010/08/21 11:54] Arria Perreault: 15 min a month ...
[2010/08/21 11:54] Keila Forager: Copy and paste whole paragraphs sonja
[2010/08/21 11:54] Rose Springvale: go on, and yes, copy paste workes better
[2010/08/21 11:54] Sonja Strom: I am here for you...
[2010/08/21 11:54] Kaseido Quandry: yes, please, thank you
[2010/08/21 11:54] Sonja Strom: at your request.
[2010/08/21 11:54] Kaseido Quandry: I beleive we asked you to do that last time as well
[2010/08/21 11:54] Rose Springvale: actually, the law required a monthly report
[2010/08/21 11:55] Rose Springvale: just finish please
[2010/08/21 11:55] Sonja Strom: And I am giving a monthly report, or trying to
[2010/08/21 11:55] Sonja Strom: I will type faster
[2010/08/21 11:56] Sonja Strom: What I was going to say next is,
[2010/08/21 11:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Speaking only for myself, I'd prefer to hear everything even if it takes longer...
[2010/08/21 11:56] Sonja Strom: Anna is also working on standardizing and updating the inworld Information Kiosks.
[2010/08/21 11:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry Sonja!)
[2010/08/21 11:56] Mikelo Serevi: Me too gwyn
[2010/08/21 11:56] Sonja Strom: np
[2010/08/21 11:56] Sonja Strom: There is also now an RA Archivist, Cindy Ecksol.
[2010/08/21 11:56] Sonja Strom: The creator of the web portal Alexicon has given access for Cindy to access the CDS web portal,
[2010/08/21 11:57] Sonja Strom: but unfortunately her password appears not to work.
[2010/08/21 11:57] Sonja Strom: We are working on getting this straightened for her.
[2010/08/21 11:57] Sonja Strom: Now all Members of the RA have been given access to the CDS Google Calendar,
[2010/08/21 11:57] Sonja Strom: and all CDS citizens have been given the ability to post notices to the CDS group.
[2010/08/21 11:58] Sonja Strom: Since some changes came with the choice of Al Andalus to leave the CDS,
[2010/08/21 11:58] Cindy Ecksol notes that she still doe snot have access
[2010/08/21 11:58] Kaseido Quandry: no, nor do I have RA-level access
[2010/08/21 11:58] Sonja Strom: Sorry about that, Cindy
[2010/08/21 11:58] Sonja Strom: Kaseido, what is RA-level access?
[2010/08/21 11:59] Rose Springvale: citiznes don't have notice priveleges on the CDS group now
[2010/08/21 11:59] Cindy Ecksol: y tag still says "CDS Citizen"
[2010/08/21 11:59] Kaseido Quandry: no, my apologies, it looks like I do now, thank you
[2010/08/21 12:00] Mikelo Serevi: you can change it yourself, Cindy
[2010/08/21 12:00] Cindy Ecksol: oh....wait....this darn new 2.0 browser hides everything!
[2010/08/21 12:00] Cindy Ecksol: just found it...
[2010/08/21 12:00] Kaseido Quandry: Mikelo, we weren't able to till recently - I couldn't, the last time I checked
[2010/08/21 12:00] Sonja Strom: Rose and Cindy, all citizens of the CDS now have the exact same posting rights in the CDS group as any member of the Executive Team.
[2010/08/21 12:00] Cindy Ecksol: sheesh!
[2010/08/21 12:00] Rose Springvale: if you look at the CDS group, and the citizen role... the send notices box is not checked
[2010/08/21 12:00] Mikelo Serevi: yeah, v2, ack
[2010/08/21 12:01] Rose Springvale: i just refreshed. not checked
[2010/08/21 12:01] Kaseido Quandry: confirmed - this has *not* been done
[2010/08/21 12:01] Cindy Ecksol: Rose, go under "Notices" and see if you have a + sign....
[2010/08/21 12:01] Rose Springvale: *I* do
[2010/08/21 12:01] Callipygian Christensen: I can post a notice, as a reference point
[2010/08/21 12:01] Rose Springvale: but this is about CItizens rights
[2010/08/21 12:01] Cindy Ecksol: Kas? do you?
[2010/08/21 12:01] Rose Springvale: look in the group roles
[2010/08/21 12:01] Sonja Strom: Rose and everyone, I have no ability to alter the Citizen controls.
[2010/08/21 12:01] Kaseido Quandry: Under "Roles," if you look at CDS Citizen
[2010/08/21 12:01] Kaseido Quandry: Allowed Abilities
[2010/08/21 12:01] Cindy Ecksol: oh....
[2010/08/21 12:01] Kaseido Quandry: Notices
[2010/08/21 12:01] Cindy Ecksol: gotcha
[2010/08/21 12:02] Kaseido Quandry: "Send Notices" is blank
[2010/08/21 12:02] Kaseido Quandry: this is what the law callled on the Chancellor to change a month ago
[2010/08/21 12:02] Rose Springvale: Sonja you do
[2010/08/21 12:02] Rose Springvale: or should
[2010/08/21 12:02] Sonja Strom: What I have been able to do, is to give everyone the same rights to post notices as the Executive Team.
[2010/08/21 12:02] Sonja Strom: That I have done.
[2010/08/21 12:02] Rose Springvale: follow up with Sudane or jamie i guess or claude, as owners lol
[2010/08/21 12:02] Kaseido Quandry: that is not true, and I'm looking right at the evidence of that
[2010/08/21 12:03] Sonja Strom: Kaseido, if you open your group info box,
[2010/08/21 12:03] Rose Springvale: wow, so we have a community full of executives lol
[2010/08/21 12:03] Keila Forager: Give it a week..LOL
[2010/08/21 12:03] Sonja Strom: you can change your level to Executive.
[2010/08/21 12:03] Kaseido Quandry: oh, I see what you did - ok, that's bizarre

[Rose Springvale]

[2010/08/21 12:03] Kaseido Quandry: and really not a good idea, I don't think.
[2010/08/21 12:03] Keila Forager: No, not a good idea at all..
[2010/08/21 12:04] Rose Springvale: could you please follow up with one of the group owners sonja and grant the power to citizens?
[2010/08/21 12:04] Sonja Strom: Kaseido, that was the only abiltity for that I had.
[2010/08/21 12:04] Rose Springvale: and then leave exec as exec?
[2010/08/21 12:04] Kaseido Quandry: See, this is why I requested a meeting with you and your team
[2010/08/21 12:04] Mikelo Serevi: Was this change made in response to a law?
[2010/08/21 12:04] Sonja Strom: Kaseido, you can choose to be unhappy with it,
[2010/08/21 12:04] Kaseido Quandry: Well, NL13-1(d) called on the Chancellor to extend notice abilities to all citizens
[2010/08/21 12:04] Rose Springvale: do you have more to present sonja?
[2010/08/21 12:04] Sonja Strom: but it did what you wanted.
[2010/08/21 12:04] Keila Forager: All the citizens could walk around as execs' and totally confuse new citizens..hehe
[2010/08/21 12:05] Cindy Ecksol: oh my!
[2010/08/21 12:05] Cindy Ecksol: surely we can do better...
[2010/08/21 12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think so too
[2010/08/21 12:05] Rose Springvale: we are at 5 past 12
[2010/08/21 12:05] Sonja Strom: I did give notice abilities to all citizens.
[2010/08/21 12:05] Cindy Ecksol: exec role needs to be different than citizen role....
[2010/08/21 12:05] Mikelo Serevi: I'm sure we can work it out
[2010/08/21 12:05] Keila Forager: I think we should let Sonja finish , then discuss..
[2010/08/21 12:05] Cindy Ecksol: yes, sonja...but you also gave them EVERYTHING ELSE!!!
[2010/08/21 12:05] Kaseido Quandry: Sonja, if you had simply lived up to your own promise to actually respond to requests for meetings, we could've prevented this cockup
[2010/08/21 12:05] Cindy Ecksol: not such a good idea....
[2010/08/21 12:05] Mikelo Serevi: But it doesn't seem that Sonja has "failed" us
[2010/08/21 12:06] Mikelo Serevi: lol
[2010/08/21 12:06] Rose Springvale: lets not get into personality issues, but if you'd meet with kas's committee please sonja, that would help
[2010/08/21 12:06] Sonja Strom: Cindy, I am not unhappy with giving abilities to any of our citizens.
[2010/08/21 12:06] Sonja Strom: This is a good community --
[2010/08/21 12:06] Rose Springvale: that isn't what the law says though, if we need to revisit it to be more clear, it will need to come to the RA
[2010/08/21 12:06] Keila Forager: But it shouldn't be your decision Sonja..
[2010/08/21 12:07] Tor Karlsvalt: I could use some of these powers to remove plywood boxes I find rezzed around town.
[2010/08/21 12:07] Keila Forager: I'm now an exec, see
[2010/08/21 12:07] Kaseido Quandry: Have you complied with NL13-1(e), Sonja?
[2010/08/21 12:07] Sonja Strom: Keila, what should not be my decision?
[2010/08/21 12:07] Lilith Ivory is way concerned about some ... uhm toga merchants ...having exec rights
[2010/08/21 12:07] Rose Springvale: is there a reason you can't meet with the commission Sonja?
[2010/08/21 12:08] Keila Forager: to make me an exec..
[2010/08/21 12:08] Tor Karlsvalt thinks he might check if his cabin is still there.
[2010/08/21 12:08] Solomon Mosely: guys, this is details for later, i think. can we get on with the report of Exec. highlights?
[2010/08/21 12:08] Keila Forager: Sonja, Just a suggestion, but seems if would be more efficient time wise and for you and the rest of the RA if you were to be prepared with your report in a notecard and copy and paste. Typing your report cuts into others allowed time and no time for questions.
[2010/08/21 12:08] Sonja Strom is searching for the text of NL13-1(e),
[2010/08/21 12:08] Kaseido Quandry: Passwords changed and shared with the LRA and Dean
[2010/08/21 12:08] Sonja Strom: and will respond so soon as she knows what it is
[2010/08/21 12:08] Kaseido Quandry: e. Passwords for all official media channels shall be held by the Chancellor and appropriate members of the Public Information Team, the LRA and the Dean of the SC. Under no circumstances shall these passwords be known only to one person. At the beginning of their term, the Chancellor shall change all passwords and immediately notify the LRA and the Dean of the SC of the new passwords for the term.
[2010/08/21 12:08] Rose Springvale: kas, when would you like to meet? lets just set a date
[2010/08/21 12:09] Sonja Strom: Thank you Kaseido
[2010/08/21 12:09] Kaseido Quandry: I'm wide open, except for Monday Wednesday and Friday before noon SLT
[2010/08/21 12:09] Rose Springvale: Sonja, is there a time you'd propose given those parameters?
[2010/08/21 12:10] Sonja Strom: Why do you want to meet with me, Kaseido?
[2010/08/21 12:10] Rose Springvale: hmm
[2010/08/21 12:10] Rose Springvale: is there a problem?
[2010/08/21 12:10] Keila Forager: oh my
[2010/08/21 12:10] Rose Springvale: out of respect for all the people who want to talk about this issue, i would like you to meet with the commission
[2010/08/21 12:10] Kaseido Quandry: For the same reason Tor wants you to attend Finance meetings, Sonja
[2010/08/21 12:11] Rose Springvale: then you can finish your report and we can get on with the meeting?
[2010/08/21 12:11] Sonja Strom: I am the elected Chancellor, and I am doing my duties as the Chancellor.
[2010/08/21 12:11] Kaseido Quandry: What is the problem, Sonja? I thought anyone could bring you their concerns - surely that extends to the RA?
[2010/08/21 12:11] Sonja Strom: Are you unhappy with them?
[2010/08/21 12:11] Rose Springvale: sonja?
[2010/08/21 12:11] Kaseido Quandry: Pick your time, and I'll call a Communications Committee meeting around it
[2010/08/21 12:11] Rose Springvale: is there a problem meeting?
[2010/08/21 12:11] Sonja Strom: Kaseido, that is true
[2010/08/21 12:12] Sonja Strom: is that what you want to meet about?
[2010/08/21 12:12] Kaseido Quandry: OMFG, yes - as I've requested publicly and privately, and called for in 3 RA meetings now
[2010/08/21 12:12] Sonja Strom: why can't we talk about that now?
[2010/08/21 12:12] Rose Springvale: we are out of time sonja
[2010/08/21 12:12] Rose Springvale: over half an hour now
[2010/08/21 12:12] Kaseido Quandry: Because we should have adjourned 12 minutes ago
[2010/08/21 12:13] Sonja Strom: I see no reason at all for our conversations to be only in private
[2010/08/21 12:13] Rose Springvale: out of respect for the RA members, please meet in commission and report back to us
[2010/08/21 12:13] Mikelo Serevi: Maybe more time should be allocated for Sonja's report next time?
[2010/08/21 12:13] Rose Springvale: nothing is private in commissions
[2010/08/21 12:13] Kaseido Quandry: no one has had a private conversation
[2010/08/21 12:13] Sonja Strom: if they re about public matters
[2010/08/21 12:13] Arria Perreault: yes,I agree with Mikelo
[2010/08/21 12:13] Rose Springvale: thanks for your input mikelo
[2010/08/21 12:13] Rose Springvale: and arria
[2010/08/21 12:13] Keila Forager: Maybe she can copy and paste next time and save some time
[2010/08/21 12:13] Kaseido Quandry: *PLEASE*
[2010/08/21 12:13] Rose Springvale: we will call a special meeting for the chancellors report henceforth
[2010/08/21 12:14] Mikelo Serevi: RA meetings aren't special?
[2010/08/21 12:14] Tor Karlsvalt: State of the Sim.
[2010/08/21 12:14] Rose Springvale: in the meantime, please just set a public meeting for the communications
[2010/08/21 12:14] Kaseido Quandry: Let the record show the Chancellor continues to refuse to meet with the COmmunications Commission
[2010/08/21 12:14] Delia Lake is wondering aloud how there could be more people in the Executive branch of the CDS group than there citizens in the CDS.........
[2010/08/21 12:14] Tor Karlsvalt: really monthly reports shouldn't be too long.
[2010/08/21 12:14] Rose Springvale: major issues here folks
[2010/08/21 12:14] Sonja Strom: I come to all of the Commission meetings that I can
[2010/08/21 12:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn apologises but has to go now, and wish you all a great end-of-meeting.... I'm sorry!
[2010/08/21 12:15] Rose Springvale: and i think we have reached the end of our ability to do constructive work today
[2010/08/21 12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: bye Gwyn
[2010/08/21 12:15] Kaseido Quandry: PICK! A! TIME!
[2010/08/21 12:15] Delia Lake: bye Gwyn
[2010/08/21 12:15] Keila Forager: By Gwyn
[2010/08/21 12:15] Arria Perreault: bye Gwyn
[2010/08/21 12:15] Sonja Strom: I have attended many of them.
[2010/08/21 12:15] Kaseido Quandry: bye Gwyn
[2010/08/21 12:15] Rose Springvale: yes Sonja, please, just pick a time now to meet with Communications
[2010/08/21 12:15] Pip Torok notes that there is NO _refusal_ to meet ... on anyone's part
[2010/08/21 12:15] Keila Forager: Sonja, just pick a time for Kas
[2010/08/21 12:15] Rose Springvale: i'm sure many of us would like to meet
[2010/08/21 12:15] Kaseido Quandry: The Chancellor continues to refuse to meet with the communications commission, which has indicated it will meet at *any* time she chooses
[2010/08/21 12:16] Arria Perreault: will be this meeting a public one with transcript?
[2010/08/21 12:16] Mikelo Serevi: why are you badgering the chancellor? She'll meet if she can
[2010/08/21 12:16] Rose Springvale: I apologize to the RA and the Citiznes, we are well behind time
[2010/08/21 12:16] Callipygian Christensen is a citizen and would like to be heard
[2010/08/21 12:16] Sonja Strom: I can meet next Saturday at 11am PDT
[2010/08/21 12:16] Rose Springvale: thank you
[2010/08/21 12:16] Kaseido Quandry: Sold.
[2010/08/21 12:16] Sonja Strom: Where shall we meet?
[2010/08/21 12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: Can the LRA recognize Calli
[2010/08/21 12:16] Arria Perreault: KAs, will be this meeting a public one with transcript?
[2010/08/21 12:16] Rose Springvale: indeed. All commission meetings are public and transcripted
[2010/08/21 12:16] Callipygian Christensen: Tor, I can wait..I just dont want Citizen's concerns dropped due to time..thank you
[2010/08/21 12:16] Rose Springvale: thank you sonja
[2010/08/21 12:16] Kaseido Quandry: Arria, stop grandstanding. *All* meetings of all CDS commissions are public and transcipted
[2010/08/21 12:17] Keila Forager: Me either Calli and I have one too
[2010/08/21 12:17] Rose Springvale: if you have more to report, please put it on the Exec thread of the forum
[2010/08/21 12:17] Rose Springvale: we need to move on now
[2010/08/21 12:17] Sonja Strom: alright
[2010/08/21 12:17] Sonja Strom: Thank you for your kindness,
[2010/08/21 12:17] Rose Springvale: we are now to RA/citizens concerns
[2010/08/21 12:18] Arria Perreault: are announcements concerns?
[2010/08/21 12:18] Sonja Strom: and supportiveness.
[2010/08/21 12:18] Keila Forager raises hand but Calli was first
[2010/08/21 12:18] Rose Springvale: I recognize alli and keila
[2010/08/21 12:18] Rose Springvale: Calli
[2010/08/21 12:18] Rose Springvale: no arria, after
[2010/08/21 12:18] Arria Perreault: ok
[2010/08/21 12:18] Rose Springvale: Calli?
[2010/08/21 12:18] Callipygian Christensen: If you truly want an involved citizenship, ALL of you RA members and Chancellor need to make coming to RA, following what is happening, INVITING
[2010/08/21 12:18] You decline Locus Amoenus Common Land, Locus Amoenus (119, 154, 24) from A group member named Kaseido Quandry.
[2010/08/21 12:19] Rose Springvale: thank you Calli
[2010/08/21 12:19] Tor Karlsvalt: hear hear
[2010/08/21 12:19] Callipygian Christensen: A Chencello'rs *report* can be written up, in the box, and actually have the time used for Q & A...
[2010/08/21 12:19] Keila Forager: I agree
[2010/08/21 12:19] Kaseido Quandry: yes, as requested last time.
[2010/08/21 12:19] Rose Springvale: done?
[2010/08/21 12:19] Callipygian Christensen: RA members can read and post on the forum threads of commissions and be prepared...
[2010/08/21 12:19] Callipygian Christensen: argue it out there..
[2010/08/21 12:19] Callipygian Christensen: and, with all due respect to ALL of you..
[2010/08/21 12:20] Callipygian Christensen: you still sound like furstrated schoolchildren still taking jabs at each other ver the issues of the last year
[2010/08/21 12:20] Pip Torok strongly agrees
[2010/08/21 12:20] Callipygian Christensen: I understand that some of you are furstrated..some of you feel like martyrs...
[2010/08/21 12:20] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree
[2010/08/21 12:20] Callipygian Christensen: well get off the cross
[2010/08/21 12:21] Rose Springvale: keila?
[2010/08/21 12:21] Keila Forager: I have a citizen's concern from Richie Deschanel about the textures on the clocktower in NFS. They don't match and I've had visitors to CDS comment on it. They need to be fixed, so can they be fixed???
[2010/08/21 12:21] Callipygian Christensen: thank you
[2010/08/21 12:21] Tor Karlsvalt: has a small issue
[2010/08/21 12:21] Rose Springvale: That needs to go to the Chancellor i think. All community rebuilting, changes are Exec decisions Keila
[2010/08/21 12:22] Rose Springvale: Tor?
[2010/08/21 12:22] Keila Forager: OK, well it looks very out of place..
[2010/08/21 12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: in line with what Keila mentioned
[2010/08/21 12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: the flags on the schloss are waiving in different directions
[2010/08/21 12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: that was pointed out by someone
[2010/08/21 12:22] Rose Springvale: again, needs to go to the chancellor
[2010/08/21 12:22] Keila Forager: It's amazing what visitors will notice
[2010/08/21 12:23] Tor Karlsvalt: another point
[2010/08/21 12:23] Pip Torok: our flags are confrontational!
[2010/08/21 12:23] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[2010/08/21 12:23] Tor Karlsvalt: RE land in LA
[2010/08/21 12:23] Tor Karlsvalt: Sudane has had to repossess much since Arias left
[2010/08/21 12:24] Tor Karlsvalt: howver there are still 4 parcels under his control
[2010/08/21 12:24] Tor Karlsvalt: Sudane is hesitant to seize these until the end of the month
[2010/08/21 12:24] Pip Torok: There is a payment problem?
[2010/08/21 12:24] Tor Karlsvalt: well tier has been paid through July
[2010/08/21 12:25] Keila Forager: If tier is not paid, she should seize them now..
[2010/08/21 12:25] Mikelo Serevi: luckily, we have a dandy new policy to deal with this in time
[2010/08/21 12:25] Pip Torok: till the end of July?
[2010/08/21 12:25] Rose Springvale: law controls Tor, i'm sure Sudane will handle it as soon as possible
[2010/08/21 12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: no not until the 28th
[2010/08/21 12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: yes she will just wanted all to know
[2010/08/21 12:25] Rose Springvale: thanks
[2010/08/21 12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: this will affect the quay
[2010/08/21 12:25] Rose Springvale: other concerns?
[2010/08/21 12:25] Rose Springvale: announcements?
[2010/08/21 12:26] Rose Springvale: Arria did you have one?
[2010/08/21 12:26] Arria Perreault: yes
[2010/08/21 12:27] Arria Perreault: I am please to announce to you the official opening of the Villa of the Mysteries in Locus Amoenus
[2010/08/21 12:27] Arria Perreault: it's a project of Ulysse Alexandre and I
[2010/08/21 12:27] Arria Perreault: Ulysse has made the main work of building
[2010/08/21 12:27] Arria Perreault: we have worked together on texturing
[2010/08/21 12:27] Cindy Ecksol waves to all....must run!
[2010/08/21 12:27] Rose Springvale: thanks cindy
[2010/08/21 12:28] Keila Forager: Bye Cindy, me too
[2010/08/21 12:28] Lilith Ivory: bye Cindy
[2010/08/21 12:28] Rose Springvale: thank you for the announcement Arria. Any others?
[2010/08/21 12:28] Arria Perreault: this building is the reconstitution of the half of the villa of the same name in Pompei
[2010/08/21 12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: very nice Arria
[2010/08/21 12:28] Pip Torok: bye Cindy
[2010/08/21 12:28] Arria Perreault: I am not done
[2010/08/21 12:28] Lilith Ivory: I am wondering if we have any new citizens in the CDS
[2010/08/21 12:28] Arria Perreault: bye Cindy
[2010/08/21 12:28] Arria Perreault: at 1pm, we have an opening party
[2010/08/21 12:28] Lilith Ivory: to bad Sonja is gone by now
[2010/08/21 12:28] Arria Perreault: everybody is welcome
[2010/08/21 12:28] Pip Torok: I'd like to congratulate Arria and Ulysse on behalf of the RA for the magnificent build in LA
[2010/08/21 12:29] Arria Perreault: we will also give a guided tour
[2010/08/21 12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: ‚ô´~~‚ô´~~APPLAUSE~~‚ô´~~‚ô´
[2010/08/21 12:29] Mikelo Serevi:
[2010/08/21 12:29] Lilith Ivory: applause
[2010/08/21 12:29] Rose Springvale: are you finished?
[2010/08/21 12:29] Arria Perreault: some paintings are after the orginal
[2010/08/21 12:29] Pip Torok: APPLAUSE
[2010/08/21 12:29] Arria Perreault: thank to Sonja and Anna for their help
[2010/08/21 12:29] Rose Springvale: if there is nothing more, i'll entertain a motion to adjourn, with apologies for the length of the meeting.
[2010/08/21 12:30] Arria Perreault: I am done
[2010/08/21 12:30] Mikelo Serevi: second
[2010/08/21 12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: nice job Arria
[2010/08/21 12:30] Pip Torok: motion to adjourn
[2010/08/21 12:30] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[2010/08/21 12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[2010/08/21 12:30] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[2010/08/21 12:30] Pip Torok: aye
[2010/08/21 12:30] Lilith Ivory: aye
[2010/08/21 12:30] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[2010/08/21 12:30] Arria Perreault: aye
[2010/08/21 12:30] Rose Springvale: we are adjourned. thank you
[2010/08/21 12:31] Rose Springvale: next meeting noon on thursday august 26