Citizen Commission

[Arria Perreault]

The next meeting of the Citizen Commission will be held the 12th of September in the Praetorium of Colonia Nova at noon.

Draft for the discussion: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3089

[Arria Perreault]

[13:22] Arria Perreault: the draft of Calli is in the amphora
[13:23] Arria Perreault: we can discuss it
[13:23] DeliaLake Beaumont: ok. thx
[13:24] Arria Perreault: I have some questions about the proposal
[13:25] DeliaLake Beaumont: ok
[13:25] Arria Perreault: should we also set a limit for the surface we set for the sponsoring
[13:26] Arria Perreault: for example, we say we set the Schloss for sponsoring
[13:26] Arria Perreault: can we cut it in a infinite number of parcel or should respect the rule od 128/256 Msq
[13:26] Arria Perreault: ?
[13:27] DeliaLake Beaumont: hmmm. not 128. too small
[13:27] Arria Perreault: so 256
[13:27] DeliaLake Beaumont: i never checked, but 256 might be the duck pond for example
[13:28] Arria Perreault: in your opinion, we should also set a number of sponsored "plots" that cannot be smaller than 256 msq?
[13:28] DeliaLake Beaumont: when the schloss is redone, it might be marked as sponsors by room perhaps
[13:29] DeliaLake Beaumont: yes. except for the grandfathered plots in NFS that are owner and merchant plots
[13:29] Arria Perreault: should not have measurables entities for a law?
[13:29] DeliaLake Beaumont: yes
[13:29] DeliaLake Beaumont: but
[13:29] Arria Perreault: it's not important if it a room or something else because people will but own this room
[13:30] Arria Perreault: maybe they have their name there
[13:30] Arria Perreault: I think we should set limits in msq to avoid to have an infinite number of people sponsoring a place
[13:30] DeliaLake Beaumont: they will not own the room but they could have a name sign in it
[13:31] DeliaLake Beaumont: the "Blue Room sponsored by Delia Lake"
[13:31] Arria Perreault: yes, I agree (if they want)
[13:32] DeliaLake Beaumont: yes, or "Duck Pond sponsored by Sonja Strom"
[13:32] Arria Perreault: ok
[13:32] DeliaLake Beaumont: the land would still be community owned land
[13:32] Arria Perreault: Duck Pond?
[13:33] DeliaLake Beaumont: but the sponsor would have a pay box like land owners do
[13:33] Sonja Strom: Kendra's park.
[13:33] Arria Perreault: ok
[13:33] DeliaLake Beaumont: in NFS if you walk past my house yes, Sonja
[13:33] DeliaLake Beaumont: there is a duck pond with benches and ducks and trees
[13:34] Arria Perreault: after reading this draft, I have made an interesting calculation
[13:34] DeliaLake Beaumont: yes?
[13:35] Arria Perreault: this proposal gives us the possibility to use every 256 msq of CDS territory to make poeple citizen
[13:35] Arria Perreault: private and public land
[13:36] Arria Perreault: private with groups system and public with sponsoring
[13:36] DeliaLake Beaumont: it does
[13:36] Arria Perreault: do you know how many citizen we can have potentially in CDS with a minimum parcel of 256 msq?
[13:36] DeliaLake Beaumont: and to have more citizens, and more people as active participants in the community
[13:36] DeliaLake Beaumont: no. i haven't calculated
[13:36] Arria Perreault: 1280 citizen
[13:37] Sonja Strom: wow!
[13:37] Sonja Strom: that would make for a large RA
[13:37] DeliaLake Beaumont: wow!
[13:38] DeliaLake Beaumont: do we want to do that? or perhaps just have sponsors for recognizable features
[13:38] Arria Perreault: this is the question
[13:38] DeliaLake Beaumont: like rooms and parks and lakes and waterfalls, etc
[13:39] DeliaLake Beaumont: my leaning is for rooms and natural features
[13:40] Arria Perreault: for marketing, it's easier to offer recognizable features for sponsoring
[13:40] DeliaLake Beaumont: brb. have to ask hubby to walk rl dog
[13:40] Arria Perreault: ok
[13:41] Arria Perreault: do we stop the meeting now?
[13:41] Sonja Strom: one thought I have is, is it something they could use for themselves in any way?
[13:41] Sonja Strom: for example, in a room in the Schloss the person could have a small personal space...
[13:42] Arria Perreault: Sonja, we thought that they could helpt to organize animations in these places
[13:42] Sonja Strom: where if someone were sponsoring a bridge in Locus Amoenus, it would be different
[13:42] Sonja Strom: or a duck pond
[13:42] Arria Perreault: yes
[13:43] Sonja Strom: even in this building someone could have an office...
[13:43] Arria Perreault: yes, right
[13:43] Sonja Strom: and have a few personal things.
[13:43] Arria Perreault: does the Chancellor has an office?
[13:43] Sonja Strom: no! lol
[13:43] DeliaLake Beaumont: that's possible but not always necessary
[13:43] Arria Perreault: we have so much room
[13:44] Sonja Strom: yes, we do
[13:44] Sonja Strom: prims can be an issue,
[13:44] Arria Perreault: yes, it's not a good idea to let sponsoring citizen rez things on public palces
[13:44] DeliaLake Beaumont: i put an office downstairs here that i use for SC sometimes. Sonja, you can use it also if you want for Chancellor business
[13:44] Sonja Strom: but nowdays there are some decent pieces of furniture available that use only a few prims.
[13:44] Sonja Strom: thank you Delia!
[13:44] DeliaLake Beaumont: sponsorship would have no prim rezzing privleges
[13:45] Arria Perreault: I agree
[13:45] DeliaLake Beaumont: the office has a copy of the constitution, and the universal declaration of human rights on the walls
[13:45] Arria Perreault: I have also imagine that we could base the sponsoring on prims for some special buildings and places
[13:46] Sonja Strom: That is what I am wondering about, is if the person can not do anything personal with the space, it seems like a line of definition for that.
[13:46] DeliaLake Beaumont: that could work also, Arria
[13:46] DeliaLake Beaumont: there are people who have personal space in other sims and don't really want a house or office or store but would like to be part of our CDS community
[13:47] Arria Perreault: About use of building for gourvernmental activities, I would say that the Preatorium should be the place of the RA, the Rathaus of the SC and the Schloss of the Executive
[13:48] DeliaLake Beaumont: there is a courtroom on the bottom floor here
[13:48] Arria Perreault: yes, Delia, that's why we are making this new law
[13:48] DeliaLake Beaumont: that's why i put the office next to it
[13:48] Arria Perreault: ok, I understand
[13:48] Arria Perreault: but you use the Rathaus for meetings
[13:48] DeliaLake Beaumont: but it can be a shared office
[13:49] Arria Perreault: well, each branch should have its place
[13:49] Arria Perreault: it's easier for the citizen
[13:49] DeliaLake Beaumont: yes, but i think we should not always use the same place for SC. mostly we do that because Danton sometimes has to be at meeti
[13:49] DeliaLake Beaumont: gs
[13:49] DeliaLake Beaumont: on his phone and can't move around
[13:50] Arria Perreault: go to the Monastery once
[13:50] Arria Perreault: I have hosted the RA, but the RA is too big for the Monastery now
[13:50] DeliaLake Beaumont: we could do that
[13:50] Arria Perreault: yes, you are welcome there
[13:51] DeliaLake Beaumont: ty
[13:51] Arria Perreault: now there is an other issue with this law
[13:51] DeliaLake Beaumont: ok
[13:52] Arria Perreault: if the CDS offers many affordable plots, it could be an internal competition. It could be that many people abandon their big parcels to get a sponsoring parcel
[13:52] Arria Perreault: so we can have financial issues
[13:52] Arria Perreault: I think NFS plays already this role today with its small parcels
[13:53] Arria Perreault: you can have a parcel for 500 L$
[13:53] Arria Perreault: by cutting our territory in small parcels, we will not ba able to finance it
[13:54] Arria Perreault: It should interesting to know how many people CDS could really attract in SL
[13:54] Arria Perreault: the market isn't infinite
[13:55] DeliaLake Beaumont: since the sponsorships have no prim rezzing permissions, i'm not sure that would be competition
[13:55] DeliaLake Beaumont: people who want homes or to build would still need to buy
[13:55] Arria Perreault: in a 500 L$ parcel in NKS, you can hardly rez a chair and a table
[13:56] Arria Perreault: they are very popular, especially for people who come rarely in-world
[13:56] Arria Perreault: I am affraid that it will be the same for sponsoring
[13:57] DeliaLake Beaumont: that though brings up a different issue
[13:57] Arria Perreault: sometimes a law can have bad and unexpected effects
[13:58] DeliaLake Beaumont: in NFS, the original sim, the city plots are small
[13:58] DeliaLake Beaumont: and many people have prim lots in the valley for that reason
[13:58] DeliaLake Beaumont: that is not something that has been carried over to the other sims in that way
[13:59] Arria Perreault: I have a small plot and no prim plot in NFS
[13:59] DeliaLake Beaumont: also though there is an ongoing complaint that the merchants have not enough prims in HFS
[13:59] DeliaLake Beaumont: NFS
[13:59] DeliaLake Beaumont: but you have other land in other sims, Arria
[14:00] Arria Perreault: if I let them all, I can keep the one in NFS
[14:00] Arria Perreault: I stay citizen, but I don't pay expensive fees like today
[14:01] Arria Perreault: I have rl projects and I want to be less active in CDS, I would do so
[14:01] Arria Perreault: but who will pay for the parcels I have let?
[14:02] DeliaLake Beaumont: then that would open space for other people to buy
[14:02] DeliaLake Beaumont: re the merchants, and you know this also Sonja from your experience
[14:02] DeliaLake Beaumont: when we redo the Schloss there will be more prims available on NFS
[14:02] Arria Perreault: do we have so many people waiting for plots in CDS?
[14:03] DeliaLake Beaumont: i would hope we would offer some extras to merchants
[14:03] Arria Perreault: so there is no problem for you if we have many people who pay tiny fees and only few who have normal parcels?
[14:04] Arria Perreault: if we have this situation, we will have financial issues to pay our fees to LL
[14:04] DeliaLake Beaumont: we only have a small number who have tiny plots
[14:04] DeliaLake Beaumont: those are in NFS
[14:04] Arria Perreault: today yes
[14:04] Arria Perreault: with this law, we have many
[14:05] DeliaLake Beaumont: so let's walk around and set an initial number of sponsor locatio
[14:05] DeliaLake Beaumont: ns
[14:05] DeliaLake Beaumont: see how it goes
[14:06] DeliaLake Beaumont: say for starters, 15 perhaps
[14:06] Arria Perreault: We have to put this in the law
[14:06] DeliaLake Beaumont: spread out among the sims
[14:06] DeliaLake Beaumont: we don't have to put out how many
[14:06] Arria Perreault: The Chancellor is responsible to manage the number of sponsoring plots
[14:07] DeliaLake Beaumont: we don't list the number of plots a sim has for ownership
[14:07] Arria Perreault: so this system doesnt bring CDS finance in an issue
[14:07] DeliaLake Beaumont: yes, we can say that there will be some on each sim
[14:07] Arria Perreault: Delia, we have an official list of private plots
[14:07] DeliaLake Beaumont: and then the Chancellor can set which locations
[14:07] Arria Perreault: we cannot change them easely
[14:08] Arria Perreault: because the RA approves them
[14:08] DeliaLake Beaumont: but it's not in our laws which sims have which plots
[14:08] Arria Perreault: I would suggest that we say in the law that the RA set and review the list of sponsoring plots
[14:09] DeliaLake Beaumont: so if we are not going to list plots for ownership in the law we donot have to list
[14:09] DeliaLake Beaumont: plots for sponsorship
[14:09] DeliaLake Beaumont: just say that each sim will have some
[14:09] Arria Perreault: the Treasurer will add this to the list of each sim
[14:09] Arria Perreault: no, I don't agree
[14:09] Arria Perreault: it has to be official and transparent
[14:10] DeliaLake Beaumont: i agree that the RA can review and approve the list that the Chancellor would submit
[14:10] Arria Perreault: there is a masterlist for each sim with each parcel, private or public. we can add the sponsoring parcels there
[14:10] Arria Perreault: ok, great
[14:10] DeliaLake Beaumont: but not list them in the citizenship law
[14:10] DeliaLake Beaumont: because they may change
[14:11] DeliaLake Beaumont: they can go on the masterlist though
[14:11] Arria Perreault: in the law we have only the way it is approved
[14:11] DeliaLake Beaumont: yes
[14:11] Arria Perreault: Chancellor submit, RA approves
[14:11] Arria Perreault: good
[14:12] DeliaLake Beaumont: and we might even ask the citizenry what locations they like a lot that they would recommend to be sponsored
[14:12] Arria Perreault: we can make a survey
[14:12] DeliaLake Beaumont: ye
[14:12] DeliaLake Beaumont: yes
[14:12] Arria Perreault: when are the next election exactly?
[14:13] DeliaLake Beaumont: january
[14:13] Arria Perreault: good
[14:13] DeliaLake Beaumont: to take office 1 feb
[14:14] Arria Perreault: we can make this survey in the next election
[14:14] DeliaLake Beaumont: no
[14:14] DeliaLake Beaumont: wrong
[14:14] DeliaLake Beaumont: let me check
[14:14] DeliaLake Beaumont: that's the old schedule
[14:14] DeliaLake Beaumont: we reajusted for holidays
[14:15] DeliaLake Beaumont: it's november and take office 1 december
[14:15] Arria Perreault: it's soon
[14:16] Arria Perreault: ok
[14:17] Arria Perreault: and we keep 256msq for both (group and sponsoring) ?
[14:17] Arria Perreault: as minimal parcel?
[14:17] DeliaLake Beaumont: yes, but grandfathering in the NFS city plots
[14:17] Arria Perreault: ok, right
[14:18] DeliaLake Beaumont: otherwise current owner/citizens would no longer be citizens
[14:18] Arria Perreault: I agree
[14:18] Arria Perreault: I think we could stop now
[14:18] DeliaLake Beaumont: ok
[14:18] Arria Perreault: I will try to put this in the form of a bill
[14:18] DeliaLake Beaumont: great!
[14:18] Arria Perreault: I will ask you if I still have question
[14:18] DeliaLake Beaumont: ok
[14:19] DeliaLake Beaumont: do you want to walk downstairs with me and see the office space?
[14:19] Sonja Strom: yes, please!
[14:20] Arria Perreault: I will publish the transcript
[14:20] Arria Perreault: ok?
[14:20] DeliaLake Beaumont: excellent, yes
[14:20] Sonja Strom: thanks Arria, and Delia