Transcript, RA meeting October 30, 2010

[Rose Springvale]

[9:14] Rose Springvale: thanks for coming. now we'll come to order
[9:14] Arria Perreault: Hi Fern
[9:14] Fern Leissa: Hi Everyone
[9:14] Ulysse Alexandre: hello Gwyn
[9:14] Ulysse Alexandre: hello Fern
[9:14] Rose Springvale: i'll remind everyone that we are transcripting, so if you speak it will be recorded. Thank you all for being here
[9:14] Kaseido Quandry: hi Gwyn
[9:14] Fern Leissa: Hi Ulysee
[9:14] Tor Karlsvalt runs to get coffee.
[9:14] Rose Springvale: This will be the last of our meetings before we are lame ducks, unless there is an objection to that
[9:15] Kaseido Quandry runs to get more coffee
[9:15] Rose Springvale: lol
[9:15] Kaseido Quandry doesn't object.
[9:15] Keila Forager: No objection
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn quacks in assent.
[9:15] Rose Springvale: the matters on the agenda today are the three items we left hanging last week, and anything else you want to bring
[9:15] Tor Karlsvalt: b
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn wonders why we've been invaded by ozimals.
[9:16] Rose Springvale: they are bunzillas
[9:16] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:16] Object owned by Rose Springvale gave you 'budget and accountability act' ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/166/41 ).
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They oook uh.... vicious?
[9:16] Keila Forager: They are Frankenbunneh's for halloween
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *look
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: right!
[9:16] Tor Karlsvalt wonders if any are a goose.
[9:16] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:17] Rose Springvale: any additions to the agenda?
[9:17] Lilith Ivory: uhm I only have the one from last time
[9:17] Rose Springvale: ah, well, that works
[9:17] Rose Springvale: lol
[9:18] Rose Springvale: we will do items IV v and VI
[9:18] Rose Springvale: i think
[9:18] Rose Springvale: unless someone has a report they want to give?
[9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have to report that I haven0't anything to report
[9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning we can skip III D
[9:18] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:19] Tor Karlsvalt slinks down into the bench.
[9:19] Arria Perreault: nothing to report form me
[9:19] Kaseido Quandry: nor here
[9:19] Rose Springvale: ladies and gentlemen.... before you go slinking around
[9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh oh lol
[9:19] Rose Springvale: you all did enormous and great work on your commissions
[9:19] Keila Forager: Ditto
[9:19] Keila Forager: ♪♪♪♪>~~~APPLAUSE~~~<♪♪♪♪
[9:19] Keila Forager: ♪♪♪♪>~~~APPLAUSE~~~<♪♪♪♪
[9:20] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[9:20] Rose Springvale: despite the accusation that the commisions were to dismantle the CDS, i'm very proud of the work you all did and the way the group worked together
[9:20] Rose Springvale: so thank you
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that the applause goes to the whole community really... lots of citizens participated
[9:20] Rose Springvale: YOU made this term great
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so thanks to all the citizens too!!
[9:20] Rose Springvale: here here!
[9:20] Tor Karlsvalt: i agree Gwyn, hear hear!
[9:20] Kaseido Quandry: I think it was a terrific system
[9:20] Keila Forager: Agreed, the commission made it easier and faster to get things through RA
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Looking back, I have to agree.
[9:21] Rose Springvale: okay
[9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We did more in one term than in several years..
[9:21] Rose Springvale: item IV
[9:21] Rose Springvale: smiles at gwyn. there is a saying we use in meetings here
[9:21] Rose Springvale: Plan the work and work the plan. I hope future RA's are able to work that way too
[9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn toasts to that
[9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (with tea)
[9:22] Rose Springvale: Now,
[9:22] Rose Springvale: the chancellor, who was not able to join us today
[9:22] Rose Springvale: asked the SC about the budget process
[9:22] Rose Springvale: the SC met, and ruled
[9:22] Rose Springvale: and admonished the RA to adopt procedures to clarify the various roles on budgetting
[9:23] Rose Springvale: particularly whether the budget must be approved by the RA
[9:23] Rose Springvale: the SC said it did
[9:23] Rose Springvale: so i threw together some language with process
[9:23] Rose Springvale: you'll find that in the box
[9:23] Rose Springvale: titles Budget and Accountability Act
[9:23] Rose Springvale: let me paste it into the record here
[9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: spam spam... lol
[9:24] Rose Springvale: or not lol
[9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[9:24] Rose Springvale: does everyone have it?
[9:24] Keila Forager: I have it
[9:24] Tor Karlsvalt: i have it
[9:24] Kaseido Quandry: got it
[9:24] Rose Springvale: okay, we can just go with the notecard.
[9:25] Lilith Ivory: yup
[9:25] Rose Springvale: let me give you my thoughts behind the provisions
[9:25] Rose Springvale: We have often operated in CDS on "last terms budget"
[9:25] Rose Springvale: primarily becauser the chancellor system in the past has been evolving
[9:26] Rose Springvale: i remember when we had our first two chancellors, and no one would run...
[9:26] Rose Springvale: so the job has grown over the past 4 years
[9:26] Rose Springvale: We now operate with more active chancellors, who each have their own perspective of the job
[9:26] Rose Springvale: so it makes sense to me that they come to the position prepared
[9:27] Rose Springvale: with some idea of what they want to accomplishe for the term
[9:27] Tor Karlsvalt: This seems very reasonable.
[9:27] Rose Springvale: When we are allocating 100000 L per month on discretionary spending... or even 5000, it makes sense that more than one set of eyes have looked at the plan
[9:28] Rose Springvale: So, by 30 days in the term, the thought was the Exec could post
[9:28] Rose Springvale: that doesn't mean the exec needs to wait 30 days
[9:28] Rose Springvale: but only that at least by then the budget would be posted
[9:28] Rose Springvale: and because the RA in the past has not always been.... timely
[9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn *coughs*
[9:28] Rose Springvale: i gave them only 30 days to reply
[9:29] Rose Springvale: and you see the options are to accept, reject or modify
[9:29] Rose Springvale: actually request modifications
[9:29] Rose Springvale: in an ideal world, and one which i actually antidipate
[9:29] Rose Springvale: the exec would bring the budget to the first meeeting and the RA would gladly accept it
[9:30] Rose Springvale: so that's the first part
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (that would be ideal)
[9:30] Rose Springvale: changes requested have a shorter deadline, because we dont' want to go on all term without a budget
[9:30] Rose Springvale: finally
[9:31] Rose Springvale: changes after approval by the exec that exceed 10% of what is approved would need to come back to RA
[9:31] Rose Springvale: otherwise, there isn't much point of approving in the first place.
[9:31] Rose Springvale: done
[9:31] Rose Springvale: thoughts?
[9:31] Arria Perreault: /rme aises hand
[9:31] Rose Springvale: arria
[9:31] Arria Perreault: raises*
[9:31] Arria Perreault: thank you
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* next
[9:31] Kaseido Quandry raises hand
[9:32] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand after Kas
[9:32] Arria Perreault: I am totally in favour of such a law
[9:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia:
[9:32] Arria Perreault: I would personnally preferred make it as a constitutional amendment. But I can live with this act.
[9:33] Arria Perreault: I have 2 questions
[9:33] Arria Perreault: 1. can we add a maximal amount that the chancellor can pay for one service without asking the RA?
[9:34] Arria Perreault: 2. Are expenses for expansion in the budget or they will be treated as special projects?
[9:34] Rose Springvale: thanks Arria
[9:34] Keila Forager: raises hand
[9:34] Rose Springvale: first let me say that i considered the constitutional side, and since the SC already ruled, felt this was the most expedient
[9:36] Rose Springvale: to reply to your questions, we CAN do any changes we want. As far as spending limits, that will be tricky, as timing is often important. and 2, this is only intended to cover discretionary expenses like musicians and parties, not expansion which i believe we approve already
[9:36] Rose Springvale: Gwyn is next?
[9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, first i would like just to state that I also totally agree with this law, specially the spirit of it: transparency, accountability
[9:37] Arria Perreault: thank you
[9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm all for that, even at the cost of a bit more bureaucracy
[9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was trying to check this against the powers that the Chancellor has in the Constitution,
[9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and it seems it fits like a glove.
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps I would just second Arria's thoughts....
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We are "supposed" to have a budget for a whole term
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we know how hard it is
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mid-term, we might "suddenly" wish to change things
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: expansion, for instance — could be an opportunity
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: not foreseen at the start.
[9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Would this act allow the budget to be "corrected" or "extended"?
[9:39] Rose Springvale: are you saying you want to approve expansion as discretionary spending without involvement of RA gwyn?
[9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No no
[9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
[9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is not easy to explain lol
[9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps let me ask the question differently...
[9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: is this act regulating *all* budgeting,
[9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: only the initial budget,
[9:40] Rose Springvale: ah
[9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: all changes to the budget...
[9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... I think that I made myself understood
[9:40] Keila Forager: 1. No payments shall be made by the executive without first having a budget approved by the RA. For purposes of this Act, the budget shall include only discretionary spending and not tier payment to Linden Lab.
[9:40] Rose Springvale: well, this act was intended to only cover the ordinary expenses of the term
[9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that's what I thought, but keila is right
[9:41] Rose Springvale: i think expansion is another part of the law..
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It also required budgeting.
[9:41] Rose Springvale: and that the RA has in the past directed the purchsases?
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wellllllll
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: "directed" mmmh... ok
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let's think of something else!
[9:41] Rose Springvale: i'm just going on memeory
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Suppose we have an event budget for the next term
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All of a sudden, in March, the RfL team asks the CDS to do a huge mega event
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we didn't foresee that they'd invite us
[9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: now we need to hurry and allocate a new budget for that.
[9:42] Rose Springvale: well
[9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Would this act (13-11) apply?
[9:42] Rose Springvale: yes
[9:42] Rose Springvale: but
[9:42] Keila Forager: 6. Changes in the budget in excess of 10% of the total discretionary funds shall be resubmitted to the RA for approval.
[9:42] Rose Springvale: remember we are not saying HOW the money would be spent
[9:42] Rose Springvale: we could approve a 30000 L per month budget
[9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, good point, Keila.
[9:42] Rose Springvale: and that could be one event
[9:42] Rose Springvale: or 10
[9:42] Keila Forager: Just copy and pasting from the Act
[9:42] Rose Springvale: i don't want us to tie the chancellors' hands
[9:43] Tor Karlsvalt: i think most events tho would have been planned well in advance.
[9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, I agree, Rose
[9:43] Rose Springvale: but if we approve an over all term budget of 100000 L
[9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Some might be "opportunities", Tor
[9:43] Rose Springvale: and the exec wants to add a 50000 L event
[9:43] Rose Springvale: i think we should have the opportunity to weigh in
[9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it's a NEW budget then. Ok. I think I get it!
[9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right!
[9:43] Rose Springvale: okay?
[9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn hushes now.
[9:44] Rose Springvale: kas i think is next
[9:44] Kaseido Quandry: I've been thinking on the same issue -
[9:44] Kaseido Quandry: and would like to see a balance between enabling Chancellors to seize opportunties,
[9:44] Kaseido Quandry: while still providing for RA oversight
[9:45] Rose Springvale: (incidentally, no pride of authorship here... feel free to suggest changes)
[9:45] Kaseido Quandry: maybe a provision to call a special meeting, for time-sensitive expenditures over $X?
[9:45] Rose Springvale: well, the RA has that power now... to ask the chancellor to meet within 3 days
[9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And not just a percentage, Kas?
[9:45] Kaseido Quandry: hm, either way, Gwyn, I think -
[9:45] Rose Springvale: so possibly the chancellor could ask a representative do request such a meeting
[9:45] Keila Forager: See again...6. Changes in the budget in excess of 10% of the total discretionary funds shall be resubmitted to the RA for approval.
[9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The percentage is set in point 6
[9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol yes Keila
[9:46] Rose Springvale: is 10 % too low? too high?
[9:46] Kaseido Quandry: well, that's annualized -which is a pretty big lump for one event/opportunity -
[9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah!
[9:46] Rose Springvale: six monthed
[9:46] Kaseido Quandry: I was thinking of that as more of a response to structural changes
[9:46] Tor Karlsvalt: seems ok
[9:46] Kaseido Quandry: six monthed, yes
[9:46] Rose Springvale: the intent was both Kas
[9:46] Rose Springvale: structural or opportunity
[9:46] Rose Springvale: Remember too
[9:47] Rose Springvale: hwo our system works
[9:47] Rose Springvale: we spend, then get reimbursed
[9:47] Rose Springvale: so if it is a really good opportunity
[9:47] Rose Springvale: the expense is made
[9:47] Rose Springvale: and all we will be doing is authorizing the reimbursement
[9:47] Rose Springvale: it is the frivolous spur of the moment ones that concern me
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[9:48] Keila Forager: Should concern all of us
[9:48] Kaseido Quandry: hmmm...ok, passing on to Tor while I ponder
[9:48] Tor Karlsvalt: true
[9:48] Tor Karlsvalt: ok thank
[9:48] Rose Springvale: okay. Tor
[9:48] Arria Perreault: it means that the chancellor or a chair of a reg committe will take the risk ?
[9:48] Tor Karlsvalt: jsut a thought I had to through out.
[9:48] Tor Karlsvalt: This is a reasonable approach. Perhaps the budget should extend for one month into the next term. We would have a fiscal term so to speak. This would allow some authorization for spending in that first month.
I think Gwyn suggests something similar. We might find ourselves in a situation where the RA, if unable to agree on the budget would have to pass an extension or what we call in the US a continuing resolution.
I think constitutional amendments should generally be avoided unless absolutely necessary. They can tend to make us unable to adapt to a changing SL
[9:49] Rose Springvale: thanks Tor
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt: So we could have a budget that spans terms.
[9:49] Rose Springvale: my reply to that is simply that we only have six month terms. We tried to extend, but there was no support
[9:49] Rose Springvale: Operationally
[9:49] Rose Springvale: we don't spend money until 30 days into a term anyway
[9:50] Rose Springvale: because of the reimbursment factor
[9:50] Rose Springvale: tier is covered, and from my pov, this encourages us not to wait for two months to get going
[9:50] Rose Springvale: if we extend the prior budget 30 days
[9:50] Rose Springvale: then have 30 days for the new one
[9:50] Rose Springvale: then 30 days to approve
[9:50] Rose Springvale: and 14 days to amend
[9:50] Rose Springvale: we are half way through the term
[9:50] Rose Springvale: exactly what i want to avoid
[9:51] Rose Springvale: better imho to deal with the issues early
[9:51] Rose Springvale: but just my opinion
[9:51] Rose Springvale: Keila you are next
[9:51] Keila Forager: just a comment
[9:51] Keila Forager: I think this act it is a good idea . It gives accountability for "our" money.
Also, I don't think a maximum amount need to be added. That would be part of the budget and if approved would be the max and according to the act, anything in excess of 10% increase would need to be resubmitted to RA.
[9:52] Tor Karlsvalt: right i agree
[9:52] Rose Springvale: kas? did you come up with anything?
[9:52] Keila Forager: And is incentive for the Chancellor to prepare a budget before elected or very soon after
[9:52] Kaseido Quandry: nope, I'm afriad
[9:52] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:53] Rose Springvale: keila, that's what i was hoping. CDS can be really productive and run smoothly when all the pieces are in order
[9:53] Rose Springvale: and the Chancellor shouldn't have to keep changing the budget
[9:53] Rose Springvale: any other discussion?
[9:54] Rose Springvale: anyone want to make a motion?
[9:54] Tor Karlsvalt: I think the chancellor should have to account for spending at the end of the term to close the books.
[9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we didn't find anything to change on this act, so I move that we vote to approve 11-13 as is
[9:55] Keila Forager: second
[9:55] Rose Springvale: thank you
[9:55] Rose Springvale: Tor, i think that issue is really covered by the treasurer... not really anything to close
[9:55] Rose Springvale: are you ready to vote?
[9:55] Keila Forager: yes
[9:55] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[9:55] Kaseido Quandry: yes
[9:56] Lilith Ivory nods
[9:56] Rose Springvale: okay. All in favor of the Budget and Accountabiiity act as written, please say aye
[9:56] Arria Perreault: aye
[9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[9:56] Keila Forager: aye
[9:56] Lilith Ivory: aye
[9:56] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[9:56] Rose Springvale: kas are you here?
[9:56] Kaseido Quandry: yes, aye
[9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[9:57] Rose Springvale: okay, i vote aye as well, motion carries. thanks!
[9:57] Keila Forager: Yay!
[9:57] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:57] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:57] Tor Karlsvalt: woot
[9:57] Rose Springvale: the second piece of legislation is a bit of clean up
[9:57] Rose Springvale: early in the term it was proposed by a citizen, not a commission
[9:57] Rose Springvale: the Al Andulus Auditable Data act
[9:58] Rose Springvale: Jamie propoesed it, and has not had time to come to a meeting to explain what he wanted
[9:58] Rose Springvale: does anyone want to take up the charge? or shall we let it drop?
[9:58] Rose Springvale: we can deal with it a number of ways
[9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well
[9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[9:58] Rose Springvale: lol
[9:58] Rose Springvale: gwyn?
[9:59] Rose Springvale: options: Deal with the substance as best we can, table indefiinitely, or move it and vote it up or down
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have a conflict here lol — one one hand, the past is the past; on the other hand, I'd be more comfortable knowing that we did well in financial terms and there was no confusion etc
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. no accusations pointing to the remote past; starting with a clean slate and a clear conscience and so forth
[10:00] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:00] Keila Forager: agree with Gwyn
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I'd be fine to move this, but if people don't want to vote "aye", I won't press much
[10:00] Rose Springvale: I'm not sure that's really possible to be honest, due to differing views of the facts. but i think i cannot participate in this discussion

[Rose Springvale]

[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes; people will STILL disagree on the interpretation of the facts; but, oh well, we'd look as being serious about at least making an attempt.
[10:01] Arria Perreault: Hi Pip
[10:01] Rose Springvale: do you think this act is the way to do that?
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Poor Sudane btw (if this goes ahead)
[10:01] Pip Torok: hi Arria ... hi all
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Rose.... I have my doubts. A lot of doubts
[10:02] Rose Springvale: so do i
[10:02] Ulysse Alexandre: hello Pip
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But... Jamie thought it through...
[10:02] Rose Springvale: unless someoen has strong feelings, i suggest we table it until it has a proponent
[10:02] Lilith Ivory: would be interesting to know about the facts
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I think he meant well. it's nice to have a policy of accountability
[10:02] Arria Perreault: did someone looked the amount it would represented? all the datas are public now
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then again, I'm also sure that jamie would be the best person to be around and ask
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *answer questions
[10:03] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:03] Rose Springvale: and keeps quiet
[10:04] Rose Springvale: anyone want to make a motion if there is no more discussion?
[10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Motion to table until Jamie is prepared to defend it publicly at the RA
[10:04] Arria Perreault: second
[10:05] Rose Springvale: okay, discussion?
[10:05] Pip Torok: which bill are we discussing plse?
[10:05] Rose Springvale: oh, hello Pip. The Al andalus auditable data act
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, traditionally, the person submitting a bill is expected to 'defend' it publicly, so it would be unfair to do it behind Jamie's back, so to speak.
[10:05] Pip Torok: tku
[10:06] Rose Springvale: though i beleive he said he didnt' think it needed him
[10:06] Rose Springvale: and he's right
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hehe
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well perhaps.
[10:06] Rose Springvale: its pretty straightforward
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The 3 first points are.
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The latter things are confusing... about a "neutral third party".... did he have anyone in mind? Desmond?
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Prokofy Neva!
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[10:07] Kaseido Quandry snorts
[10:07] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:07] Rose Springvale: well, there is a motion on the floor that has been seconded
[10:07] Rose Springvale: shall we take a vote?
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh wait, "mutually acceptable" and not "Mutually UNacceptable"
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: fine by me
[10:08] Arria Perreault: All the datas are public now
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well I'd say so, yes
[10:09] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:09] Rose Springvale: lets vote on the motion
[10:09] Arria Perreault: I have a suggestion
[10:09] Rose Springvale: okay
[10:09] Pip Torok: (motion to table the bill/)
[10:09] Pip Torok: ?
[10:09] Rose Springvale: Arria go ahead?
[10:10] Arria Perreault: I think that the requester should bring the datas, as theay are public now
[10:10] Rose Springvale: he's not a public official though
[10:10] Rose Springvale: i believe he's asking that the treasurer do so
[10:10] Arria Perreault: the access to the Rudeen is not needed
[10:10] Arria Perreault: the third party can work on public datas
[10:11] Rose Springvale: not sure how that works
[10:11] Arria Perreault: all the financial reports are in the portal
[10:11] Rose Springvale: or how it gets us anything more than we already have. the date made public is made by the individuals being audited
[10:11] Rose Springvale: but they ar unaudited
[10:11] Tor Karlsvalt: Even if they are pubic, the treasure should present a certified explanation if we ever require one.
[10:11] Arria Perreault: AA can choose someone to make the calcul
[10:11] Rose Springvale: we can't require anything of AA
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, we cannot
[10:11] Rose Springvale: they are not under the CDS jurisdicition
[10:11] Lilith Ivory: I agree Tor
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No jurisdiction
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol right, Rose!
[10:12] Arria Perreault: ok
[10:12] Keila Forager: Agree with Tor
[10:12] Arria Perreault: the RA design someone else to make this calcul
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I do also agree with Tor overall, that's why I don't utterly reject this bill.
[10:12] Rose Springvale: okay, i have a suggestion
[10:12] Rose Springvale: i think this issue is not simply about AA
[10:13] Rose Springvale: so i think we should vote this motion down, and work on a Treasury audi act
[10:13] Rose Springvale: audit
[10:13] Kaseido Quandry: oh, excellent idea!
[10:13] Rose Springvale: So that Sudane has some back up
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now that's something different!
[10:14] Rose Springvale: and suspicious people can get some satisfaction too. Not fair to leave this all on her shoulders
[10:14] Keila Forager: That would be ongoing and not just this instance. Great idea and then records can be keep properly as the money comes in and goes out.
[10:14] Lilith Ivory nods
[10:14] Arria Perreault: I think she could export the reports from the LL website and store them somewhere for a review
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I like that.
[10:14] Rose Springvale: i think we need to work on wording tough, so we don't just throw it together. Anyone want to attemp that?
[10:14] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[10:14] Tor Karlsvalt nods and remembers tier.
[10:14] Rose Springvale: Calli?
[10:15] Arria Perreault: it's a normal process
[10:15] Callipygian Christensen: Would such an act be retroactive so that the AA information the original bill sought to audit would still be done?
[10:15] Rose Springvale: so long as it is in this term, i think it could
[10:16] Rose Springvale: once the term ends, unless we pass a law, all bets are off
[10:16] Rose Springvale: any other thoughts?
[10:16] Tor Karlsvalt: not sure,
[10:16] Callipygian Christensen: With all due respect, andkeeping in mind the speed that things move at - I am not sure that defeating this and gong for an Act addresses the purpose then
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm.
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Everybody has a point lol
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: both pro and con
[10:17] Tor Karlsvalt: you mean the treasurer would have to present the books and close them?
[10:17] Rose Springvale: well, for now, we have a motion on the floor to table, that i'm not supposed to let go... so maybe we can withdraw that motion for now?
[10:17] Tor Karlsvalt: This would proably have to be done at the beginning of the next term.
[10:18] Rose Springvale: At the beginning of the next term, i believe the AA data is out of reach
[10:18] Kaseido Quandry: Call it a learning experience, and just close the barn door for next time, now that that horse has gone?
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh* since I have placed the motion, I'll withdraw it.
[10:18] Keila Forager: I make a motion we without the motion ot table the act
[10:19] Keila Forager: or something like that..
[10:19] Rose Springvale: motion withdrawn
[10:19] Rose Springvale: to table that is
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, so we can still a) discuss it; b) approve it as is; c) approve with changes
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... or table again
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[10:19] Rose Springvale: or reject it
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, or that
[10:20] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:20] Rose Springvale: What do you want to do ?
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn doesn't know
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ignorance is bliss.
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:21] Keila Forager: I think a treasury audit act it still a good idea, but if it includes this act's info, we should look at this one first, then proceed with the other. As it may go to next term.
[10:21] Rose Springvale: good point Keila
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, well, that's the only thing I'+m afraid: rejecting this means we might not get a chance next time.
[10:22] Rose Springvale: let's pass it then
[10:22] Keila Forager: And if as Arria says , all the data is public, then all that would need to be done is to organize it
[10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: True...
[10:22] Lilith Ivory: can´t help, I´d like to know so I move to approve the act
[10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Lilith.
[10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me second it then.
[10:22] Rose Springvale: great, thanks
[10:22] Rose Springvale: more discussion or ready to vote?
[10:23] Keila Forager: Ready to vote
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Question... do we need to pick someone "neutral" right now?
[10:23] Keila Forager: doesn't say that , not the way I read it
[10:23] Keila Forager: and that is only if she needs it
[10:23] Lilith Ivory: I don´t think so
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, it doesn't set a timeline
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
[10:23] Arria Perreault: Give Sudane a chance to do it first
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In that case, I'm fine in voting
[10:24] Rose Springvale: i think the act doesn't requrie the third party until she says so
[10:24] Rose Springvale: lol
[10:24] Rose Springvale: so no need
[10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Okies.
[10:24] Lilith Ivory smiles
[10:24] Rose Springvale: All in favor of the Al andalus auditible date act, as written, please say aye
[10:24] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:24] Keila Forager: aye
[10:24] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh well... aye
[10:25] Pip Torok: abstain
[10:25] Kaseido Quandry: abstain
[10:25] Arria Perreault: abstain
[10:25] Rose Springvale: interesting parliamentary position
[10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed
[10:26] Rose Springvale: we have 4 in favor, 4 abstentions, including mine, and only one 7 day vote
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That vote will decide
[10:26] Rose Springvale: okay. I might suggest
[10:26] Rose Springvale: that assuming the motion does not carry
[10:26] Rose Springvale: we put together somethign that people will feel able to vote on
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes... it would make sense, Rose!
[10:27] Rose Springvale: and do it at our last meeting... this is an important concept and i would love to see it in law
[10:27] Kaseido Quandry: I'd hugely support a forward-looking Act
[10:27] Tor Karlsvalt: I think so Kas.
[10:27] Rose Springvale: great. anyone want to volunteer to work on one?
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
[10:27] Tor Karlsvalt: the idea of autiding our books is a good one.
[10:28] Rose Springvale: only requirement is that language would have to be ready for the last meeting
[10:28] Lilith Ivory nods
[10:28] Rose Springvale: kas and tor?
[10:28] Rose Springvale: want to try?
[10:28] Kaseido Quandry: OK, sure
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: sure
[10:28] Rose Springvale: i'll be happy to help, so long as we dont' go places i'm abstaining in
[10:28] Rose Springvale:
[10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: right
[10:28] Rose Springvale: great
[10:28] Rose Springvale: okay
[10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Act to create the office of a Commerce Coordinator ?
[10:29] Rose Springvale: we did that last week!
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh sorry
[10:29] Keila Forager: I thought we already did that?
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wasn't here...
[10:29] Rose Springvale: the only other item is the covenants commission
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My apologies.
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok.
[10:29] Rose Springvale: not commission
[10:29] Rose Springvale: committee
[10:29] Rose Springvale: My hope for this term was to clean up loose ends that have been left hanging for terms
[10:30] Rose Springvale: and that one thread never got picked up
[10:30] Rose Springvale: I'm NOT comfortable just asking you all to approve the review moon and i and jamie did a couple of years ago
[10:30] Rose Springvale: but there are things in there that deserve to be handled
[10:30] Rose Springvale: like
[10:30] Rose Springvale: subletting
[10:30] Rose Springvale: which people do anyway, but is technically illegal
[10:30] Rose Springvale: and coordinating the All Sim covenants
[10:30] Rose Springvale: so they match
[10:31] Rose Springvale: and allowing skyboxes on the parcels in CN... as they are in all other sims
[10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Definitely plenty of work to keep a committee busy for a whole term...
[10:31] Keila Forager: or more Gwyn
[10:31] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:31] Rose Springvale: so let it go for this time?
[10:31] Keila Forager: I think it should be high on priorities of the next RA
[10:31] Rose Springvale: will give the new RA something to work on too
[10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well... let's be realistic... can this committee do the work in 2 weeks?
[10:31] Keila Forager: no way
[10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If yes, I'd be happy to move to create the committee
[10:31] Rose Springvale: actually
[10:32] Rose Springvale: if you look at the forums
[10:32] Rose Springvale: a lot of the work has aleady been done
[10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn blushes in embarassment
[10:32] Rose Springvale: we just need to bring up the issues and approve them
[10:32] Rose Springvale: or not
[10:32] Rose Springvale: i'm happy with letting it drop for this term
[10:32] Rose Springvale: it took a lot of time to get to whre it is
[10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmh. Well. We have been incredibly productive this term; I'd be fine to do a last attempt at that and see what we come up with;
[10:32] Rose Springvale: so hopefully the next group won't have to recreate the wheel
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: worst case scenario: the work is unfinished but a report is produced
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which can just be picked up again next term
[10:33] Keila Forager: or partially finished..
[10:33] Rose Springvale: My suggestion is that you all just look at the forum thread
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, Keila!
[10:33] Kaseido Quandry: Gwyn, I could help with that, if you'd like
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Don't look at me, I'm not volunteering! haha
[10:33] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[10:33] Rose Springvale: if someone wants to make a proposal, we can put it on the agenda for the last meeting too
[10:33] Rose Springvale: i don't think there is that much substantive
[10:34] Rose Springvale: mostly recognizing practices already there
[10:34] Rose Springvale: Keila, want to handle it? i know covenants are a big thing for you
[10:34] Rose Springvale: and if not we will jut let it ride
[10:35] Keila Forager: When is the last meeting
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn would definitely support a committee with Keila as chair
[10:35] Rose Springvale: after the election
[10:35] Tor Karlsvalt wonders who is subletting.
[10:35] Rose Springvale: willing to listen to dates lol
[10:35] Keila Forager: ok..guess it can be my last hurrah
[10:35] Rose Springvale: anyone who has a merchant in their store who doesn't vote Tor
[10:35] Rose Springvale: all of to limani was a sublet, for example
[10:36] Rose Springvale: okay, Keila, lets look at schedules so we can coordinate the meeting
[10:36] Rose Springvale: maybe we can have a committee meeting where anyone interested can come too
[10:36] Pip Torok: any other instance of subletting?
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I most certainly hope so, Rose
[10:37] Keila Forager: we are looking at tues after noone the 2nd and firday the 5th
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pip; technically, I have someone using my shop to sell clothes too
[10:37] Pip Torok: ah ...
[10:37] Rose Springvale: several people do it
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (in practice, neither I get paid for it, nor my friend has been in-world for months )
[10:37] Keila Forager: I also have copied ALL the covenants in a document, so anyone wants a copy send me your email in IM
[10:38] Rose Springvale: keila, look at the google docs we did too
[10:38] Rose Springvale: pulled out the common threads
[10:38] Arria Perreault: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=covenant
[10:38] Rose Springvale: no
[10:38] Rose Springvale: those are not what are on the sims
[10:38] Rose Springvale: or weren't when the reivew was made
[10:38] Arria Perreault: all the convenants are in the portal too
[10:38] Rose Springvale: only wnat is on the sims is the official covenant.. not the portal
[10:38] Keila Forager: I took the covanents from the portal , as that is where everyone is sent to look for them, if they can find them...LOL
[10:39] Rose Springvale: that's part of our problem
[10:39] Arria Perreault: (copy -paste)
[10:39] Tor Karlsvalt: and hence the confusion.
[10:39] Rose Springvale: at the time, the nfs sims went to a non operative website!
[10:39] Keila Forager: and what is in the covenanat on the sims , is wrong, nfs still has a non exsistant web site presence
[10:39] Rose Springvale: that's the point of the committee, to make sure we have our i's dotted
[10:39] Rose Springvale: thanks
[10:40] Rose Springvale: okay
[10:40] Rose Springvale: anything else to brign before the meeting?
[10:40] Rose Springvale: concerns of the RA?
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We're skipping VII, VIII?
[10:40] Pip Torok: hi Trebor
[10:40] Rose Springvale: gwyn, we did them
[10:40] Rose Springvale: this is the leftover meeting
[10:41] Rose Springvale: those were all covered last week
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn *slaps her forehead*
[10:41] Trebor Warcliffe: Hi Pip
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: right! Sorry
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn apologises for the fever that addles her brains
[10:41] Rose Springvale: Remember that candidate announcements for both RA and chancellor are due by midnight
[10:41] Rose Springvale: thank you to those of you who have already volunteered
[10:41] Keila Forager: Just I will pick a day and time before the end of today and post it, so if anyone wants to be a part of this, let me know before I post a meeting time
[10:41] Arria Perreault: are we in annoucements?
[10:42] Rose Springvale: great Keila
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My only concern is not having enough candidates: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3141
[10:42] Rose Springvale: RA concerns now
[10:42] Lilith Ivory: I´d like to come also Keila but am flexible with times
[10:42] Rose Springvale: ask people to run Gwyn!
[10:42] Keila Forager: OK..
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Run, run
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They run away!
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[10:42] Arria Perreault:
[10:42] Rose Springvale: lol my experience is that if you approach them individually, you have better luck
[10:42] Rose Springvale: any other concerns?
[10:43] You decline Thistle Hill Market, Caledon Oxbridge Village (188, 83, 24) from A group member named Autopilotpatty Poppy.
[10:43] Rose Springvale: announcements?
[10:43] Arria Perreault raises hand
[10:43] Rose Springvale: go on
[10:43] Arria Perreault: A CDS Halloween Party will be held at the docks in Colonia Nova on Sunday, October 31st from 2pm - 4pm
[10:43] Arria Perreault: tomorrow
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: woo hoo
[10:43] Rose Springvale: what does that huge ship have to do with it Arria?
[10:43] Rose Springvale: it is blocking my land !
[10:44] Pip Torok: thats right, Rose!
[10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ha! complain to the Chancellor!
[10:44] Rose Springvale: i did
[10:44] Rose Springvale: formally
[10:44] Pip Torok: in what way, Rose?
[10:44] Arria Perreault: possible
[10:44] Arria Perreault: I did not organize the party. I just want to make a reminder
[10:44] Rose Springvale: well, it is out of them, out of scale, and completely obsucres my land
[10:44] Rose Springvale: theme*
[10:44] Rose Springvale: and if it is for a party on sunday, not sure why i have to live with it all week

[Rose Springvale]

[10:45] Arria Perreault: I see now
[10:45] Pip Torok: well, this avatar enjoyed it ...
[10:45] Arria Perreault: it's probably for the party
[10:45] Rose Springvale: then it should be on public land. the harbor would be more apporpriate
[10:45] Rose Springvale: it doesn't go here
[10:45] Arria Perreault: you should ask the Chancellor
[10:45] Rose Springvale: i did
[10:45] Arria Perreault: ok
[10:46] Rose Springvale: was told she's busy
[10:46] Keila Forager: Out of theme items, shouldn't be rezzed until the event..
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees
[10:46] Lilith Ivory: the Chancellor seems to be out of town
[10:46] Keila Forager: No wonder we lose citizens..
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah... happens to the best of us.
[10:46] Pip Torok: yes, in Panama atm ...
[10:46] Arria Perreault: Sonja is travelling right now
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh wow.
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope she has fun
[10:47] Rose Springvale: it would have been nice to have been advised. I cancelled my own party because of it
[10:47] Rose Springvale: other annoucnemnts?
[10:47] Pip Torok: so her initiative in rezzing it now is imo appropriate given the circumstances
[10:47] Rose Springvale: pip
[10:47] Rose Springvale: i disagreee and you would if it were your lland
[10:47] Keila Forager: No it's not Pip, someone else like the PIO good do it
[10:47] Rose Springvale: you didn't even want volleyball on the beach lol
[10:47] Keila Forager: could
[10:47] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:47] Pip Torok: no ... and i would have welcomed it on my LA land ..
[10:47] Rose Springvale: the pio didn't know anything about it
[10:47] Rose Springvale: then maybe you can move it
[10:48] Arria Perreault: after the party
[10:48] Pip Torok: with the perms I would have ...
[10:48] Keila Forager: Get Anna to move it or take it back them
[10:48] Arria Perreault: if it is for the party, you can wait few hours
[10:48] Keila Forager: Will add something about this to the covanents for sure
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn is now curious about the ship
[10:48] Rose Springvale: its been there for days arria
[10:48] Pip Torok: quite, Arria!
[10:48] Keila Forager: Been days Arria
[10:49] Arria Perreault: why to take it away now
[10:49] Tor Karlsvalt: it is a say 15th century ship
[10:49] Lilith Ivory: I could move it ....
[10:49] Rose Springvale: i guess i should ask for compensation
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: MMmh,Eminent domain!
[10:49] Keila Forager: I think it's more of an inconsiderate action than anything
[10:49] Rose Springvale: since i feel my land has been taken for public use without even the courtesy of letting me know
[10:49] Arria Perreault: yes, ask for a compensation if your land was used
[10:49] Pip Torok: a little quirkiness for Halloween makes a fun environment imnsho ...
[10:49] Rose Springvale: its a pirate ship
[10:49] Rose Springvale: not a jackolantern
[10:49] Rose Springvale: not a haunted house
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn wonders if we'll get pumpkin rain
[10:49] Keila Forager: It's not quirkiness Pip, it's rude.
[10:49] Rose Springvale: what has that do to with halloween?
[10:50] Rose Springvale: anyay
[10:50] Arria Perreault: pirates are not in the Halloween theme?
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's the ship of the Flying Dutchman
[10:50] Rose Springvale: motion to adjorun please?
[10:50] Keila Forager: Motion to adjourn
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, seconded
[10:50] Pip Torok: in the UK it is ...
[10:50] Rose Springvale: thank you all in favor?
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[10:50] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:50] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:50] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[10:50] Pip Torok: aye
[10:50] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:50] Rose Springvale: meeting adjourned.