[15:02] Delia Lake: both Aliasi and Soro will be here today so we will wait a little for them to log in as well as for Claude to return
[15:02] Pip Torok: hi tor
[15:02] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ohhh Aliasi is in the house !
[15:02] Delia Lake: Claude is on his phone
[15:02] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Aliasi is on radar.
[15:02] Free Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
[15:02] Claude Desmoulins is Online
[15:02] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Claude Desmoulins (6m)
[15:02] Delia Lake: yes 
[15:02] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Aliasi Stonebender (18m)
[15:02] Soro Dagostino is Online
[15:02] Arria Perreault: Hi PIP
[15:02] Delia Lake: hi Aliasi
[15:03] Arria Perreault: hi ALIASI
[15:03] Tor Karlsvalt: wb Claud
[15:03] Aliasi Stonebender: heya
[15:03] Pip Torok: hi Arria ... didnt see you there
[15:03] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Soro Dagostino (6m)
[15:03] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Aliasi
[15:03] Aliasi Stonebender: juyst looking over those notecards.
[15:04] Callipygian Christensen is Online
[15:05] Delia Lake: hi Soro
[15:05] Soro Dagostino: Hello all.
[15:05] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Soro
[15:05] Lilith Ivory: Hi Soro, hi all
[15:06] Lilith Ivory: sorry, was afk
[15:06] Pip Torok: hi Soro
[15:06] Aliasi Stonebender accepted your inventory offer.
[15:06] Soro Dagostino accepted your inventory offer.
[15:06] Arria Perreault: Hi Soro
[15:06] Claude Desmoulins: My apologies to anyone I ignore.
[15:06] Claude Desmoulins accepted your inventory offer.
[15:08] Claude Desmoulins: I can neither see nor move:)
[15:08] Arria Perreault: I don't see you, but I hear you, Claude
[15:08] Tor Karlsvalt: Blind Justice
[15:08] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Callipygian Christensen (6m)
[15:08] Soro Dagostino: 5 min.
[15:08] Pip Torok: hi Calli
[15:08] Soro Dagostino: I'll brb -- RL issue.
[15:09] Lilith Ivory: hi Calli
[15:09] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Callie
[15:09] Callipygian Christensen: hi everyone
[15:09] Pip Torok: i can see you in "white" Claude
[15:09] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes same here Claude
[15:09] Aliasi Stonebender: clearly claude has ascended to another plane of existence. 
[15:09] Delia Lake: I seem to be experiencing a log of lag. sorry for my silnces
[15:09] Claude Desmoulins: at least I'm here.
[15:10] Tor Karlsvalt: an ancient
[15:10] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes
[15:11] Soro Dagostino: Back
[15:11] Delia Lake: the agenda is simple today, and now in this stack of books
[15:12] Delia Lake: please touch the recorder to give your permission to be recorded
[15:12] Ariell Enoch is Online
[15:12] Claude Desmoulins: I consent
[15:12] Claude Desmoulins: can't touch anything either
[15:13] Soro Dagostino: I consent to recording
[15:13] Soro Dagostino: The answer to your question is yes.
[15:13] Pip Torok: i consent to being recorded
[15:13] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[15:13] Arria Perreault: I consent to be recorded
[15:13] Trebor Warcliffe: yes
[15:14] Aliasi Stonebender: I've touched it, so obviously, consenting.
[15:14] Delia Lake: thank you all for coming to our meeting today
[15:14] Tor Karlsvalt: i touched it also
[15:14] Delia Lake: Since the SC is overdue for a meeting, the first thing we need to do is elect our SC Dean for this term
[15:15] Delia Lake: I have been the Dean for the past 3 terms
[15:18] Delia Lake: my work in RL has increased considerably and I am traveling more, making it increasingly difficult for me to perform effectively as SC Dean. I would like to remain on the SC but do remove myself from consideration for another term as Dean at this time
[15:18] Chad Sawson is Offline
[15:19] Delia Lake: As Cude and Aliasi have also served as SC Dean in the past, I would like to nominate Soro Dagostino to be the SC Dean for this next term.
[15:19] Delia Lake: *Claude
[15:20] Delia Lake: Aliasi? Claude? Soro?
[15:20] Aliasi Stonebender: I'll second it.
[15:20] Claude Desmoulins: fine with me.
[15:21] Soro Dagostino: I am willing to serve.
[15:21] Soro Dagostino: At the end of this meeting.
[15:21] Soro Dagostino: )
[15:21] Delia Lake: All in favor of Soro as our new SC Dean?
[15:21] Delia Lake: Aye
[15:22] Claude Desmoulins: Aye
[15:22] Soro Dagostino: aye
[15:22] Delia Lake: Ali?
[15:23] Delia Lake: Congratulations, Soro, and thank you.
[15:23] Aliasi Stonebender: aye
[15:24] Delia Lake: We have 2 issues that have been brought to the SC recently
[15:24] Arria Perreault: Congratulations, Soro ㋡
[15:24] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ☆Applause☆
[15:24] Arria Perreault: and thank you Delia for serving 3 term as Dean ㋡
[15:25] Delia Lake: my pleasure
[15:25] Lilith Ivory: Congrats Soro
[15:25] Notary Desk whispers: Passed self test.
[15:26] Soro Dagostino: Madame Dean . . .
[15:26] Tor Karlsvalt: Congrants Soro
[15:26] Lucida Skytower is Offline
[15:26] Soro Dagostino: I wish to amend the agenda
[15:26] Lucida Skytower is Online
[15:26] Delia Lake: yes, please
[15:27] Soro Dagostino: To place in nomination to the SC Lilith Ivory.
[15:28] Soro Dagostino: I saw your note of a month ago, and it needs to be formal.
[15:28] Soro Dagostino: So I so move.
[15:28] Delia Lake: We have lost 2 SC members who have recently resigned. We do need to consider adding another SC Chair
[15:29] Lilith Ivory: as I see there are many more important items on the agenda to day I´d ask to reschedule this
[15:29] Aliasi Stonebender: eh, there's only two and I don't see either being overly lengthy.
[15:30] Lilith Ivory: so many different things have happened in the past I have to think about before I can declare wether I´m willing to serve
[15:31] Indicator Board (Business Ver): Arria Perreault is away!
[15:31] Yan Lauria is Offline
[15:31] Indicator Board (Business Ver): Arria Perreault is online!
[15:32] Lilith Ivory: I was thinking about running for RA IF there is a bi election ...
[15:32] Soro Dagostino: Maker of the motion will accept the motion being tabled.
[15:32] Lilith Ivory: but if the SC needs me also I´d be willing to serve there
[15:32] Lilith Ivory smiles
[15:32] Delia Lake: So perhaps we should put this on the agenda for our next meeting, Soro?
[15:33] Soro Dagostino: That will delay the process . . . lets suspend the item to the end of the agenda.
[15:33] Soro Dagostino: And move to item a.
[15:34] Aliasi Stonebender: yeah. since I can see it is contingent.
[15:34] Delia Lake: OK, agreed
[15:34] Delia Lake: The first item on the agenda is Arria's request
[15:35] Delia Lake: Arria posted the original on the Forum as follows
[15:35] Delia Lake: Mrs Dean of the SC,
During the last RA meeting, we have voted to replace the Church. In the agenda, the decision was to make a referendum about this change. Pip has also proposed a text to put the new church for one month only and then to choose. During the week, the builder of the old church has destroyed it by accident. At the time of the meeting, we had to face a big hole in NFS. It was a pressure for us. We vote to replace the Church. In the discussion, Tor said that we should try to get a rollback by LL, but the rollback was presented as non-usefull as it did not solve the right's issue. After the meeting, Tor has asked Sudane to get this rollback and LL bring the old church back very quickly. This fact would have changed the way the RA meeting was held. For example, we would have voted the text of Pip.
The fact that Tor has requested the rollback so late is a problem for me. He admitted that he is in favour of the new church and I think he helped to make the decision by waiting the RA meeting to get a
[15:35] Delia Lake: rollback. In any case, he did not need any approval of the RA for that, as far as I know.
I ask the SC to analyse this case and to confirm or infirm the vote about the new Church in the meeting of the RA on 17th July 2011. Agenda and transcriptions are in the forums:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3494#p17748
Arria Perreault, LRA
[15:36] Delia Lake: lol, the chat inserted my name at the paragraph break wrongly
[15:37] Delia Lake: Arria's further posts amending her original request are as follows
[15:37] Delia Lake: Re: Request to the SC about the vote of the RA
Postby Arria Perreault » Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:57 am
Mrs Dean of the Scientific Council,
as LRA, I have a request for a ruling to the Scientific Council about the validity of the votes made in the RA during the following meetings:
17th July 2011
10th JULI 2011
26th June 2011
One of the RA member, Rosie Gray, was elected as Secretary of the New Guild on 26th June 2011 before the RA meeting. The Charter of the New Guild (viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1875) was approved by the RA on 7th June 2008 (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1909). The article 22 of the Charter sais that the Secretary of the New Guild cannot be a member of the RA. Rosie Gray had during these three meetings two positions that one CDS citizen cannot have at the same time. I have asked Rosie to choose between the two positions and to inform us about her decision. If Rosie decide to resign her position in the RA, the SC will have to organize a by-election.I hope we will know her decision soon. Now I ask the SC to mak
[15:37] Delia Lake: e a ruling about the validity of the votes made during this three meetings. If these votes are not valid, I will reschedule them. I would appreciate if the SC give a quick answer to me, as almost all important votes made since the beginning of the term.
Sincerely
Arria Perreault, LRA
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Re: Request to the SC about the vote of the RA
Postby Arria Perreault » Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:02 pm
After a discussion with Trebor, I want to make public the following statement:
The only mistake I have made was to forget completely the Charter of the New Guild. I knew of course the existence of this Charter as I was Chair of the Faculty at this time. I should have controlled the content of this Charter when Rosie was candidate or elected. I did not. Nobody else did. Only Rose pointed out this article of the Charter. The Charter was also accepted by the RA. This fact has consequences. It gives to this charter a status of a CDS law. When I have realized that, I have understood that we had a problem. The goal of my request to the Sci
[15:37] Delia Lake: us of a CDS law. When I have realized that, I have understood that we had a problem. The goal of my request to the Scientific Council is not to block our decisions, but to make them valid for ever. I have asked the SC because I don't have the answer. I see only the problem that we have currently. If the votes are seen as invalid, we will vote again.
I have made a mistake as LRA (errare humanum est) and I want to apologize for the inconvenient and the current situation. I hope that the SC can decide quickly.
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Arria Perreault
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Posts: 523
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:14 am
Location: Locus Amoenus
[15:38] Delia Lake: --again without my own name there
[15:40] Claude Desmoulins: Two questions:
[15:40] Delia Lake: So Arria, since you are here, perhaps you can clarify a bit as to me the core issue changed a bit from your first request to your modified one. and yes, Claude ask your questions first
[15:40] Widget Whiteberry is Online
[15:40] Claude Desmoulins: does excluding Rosie's vote change any outcomes?
[15:42] Claude Desmoulins: 2nd do we believe other members of the RA would have voted differently if they believed Rosie wasn't eligible to vote?
[15:44] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Ranma
[15:44] Pip Torok: hi Ranma!
[15:44] Lilith Ivory: hi Ranma
[15:45] Claude Desmoulins: I'll have to go eat soon. I'll try to pop back in after dinner.
[15:45] Ranma Tardis: hello
[15:45] Delia Lake: ok, Claude
[15:45] Delia Lake: hi Ranma
[15:46] Claude Desmoulins: you need vacate the RA votes only if you answer yes to #2
[15:46] Claude Desmoulins is Offline
[15:46] Pip Torok raises hand
[15:46] Trebor Warcliffe: How come we can't see what everyone is chatting?
[15:46] Callipygian Christensen frowns and raises hers too
[15:48] Delia Lake: it seems that there is a lot of lag here today.
[15:48] Delia Lake: no other reason that I know that would prevent seeing chat
[15:49] Trebor Warcliffe: What if someone has their chat box open which isnt allowing the rest of us to see the conversation. This is a public meeting please.
[15:49] Delia Lake: hmmm. Arria, if you typed something and hit return, we do not see what you typed, and it did seem that you were typing for a very long time
[15:49] Callipygian Christensen: Trebor, I dont think there is any to see
[15:49] Soro Dagostino: Agree with the lag. I don't see anything missing
[15:50] Arria Perreault: Mrs Dean, we can forget my first request. I have checked the different emails I have got about the disappeance of the Church. The first time Tor talked about a roll back was at the RA meeting, not before. I have no element to think that he was aware that this solution before the meeting. I have reformulate the my request when a new element has come. Rose has pointed out that the New Guild Charter did not allow the Secretary of the Board to be an RA member. I have looked forward ad I have realized that the RA had also approved this Charter. This fact is important to me: the vote of the RA give to this Charter an higher position than an internal Charter of the Guild. That's why I have made this request. I want to make sure that the votes are valid or I want to know if we have to reschedule them formally as soon as we know if Rosie can hold both position or if she has to choose of of them.
[15:50] Delia Lake: ok. just severe lag
[15:51] Soro Dagostino: Have there been any actions by the Guild that required Rosie's participation as the Secretary?
[15:51] Trebor Warcliffe: Nope
[15:52] Trebor Warcliffe: The only action she took was to request input from the citizens in the forum on their ideas for improving the sims
[15:52] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand
[15:52] Delia Lake: I have a note to that effect, Soro, that Rosie gave me last night. she is unable to be here today
[15:52] Soro Dagostino: Why, then shouldin't her nomination to the Secretary position be suspended until she resigns from RA?
[15:53] Trebor Warcliffe: May I?
[15:53] Arria Perreault: until now, no as far as I know. And for few weeks, she was not aware of the Charter. Now she is.
[15:53] Delia Lake: it is I believe in the RA mtranscript as well
[15:53] Delia Lake: Hello Delia,
Here is a statement that I made at the RA meeting today, July 31, 2011.
Citizens of the C.D.S., members of the R.A., and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Scientific Council, whom I specifically address this to:
I wish to make a statement at this time, concerning my participation in the C.D.S.
I will say “done”, when I am finished.
Please bear with me.
Our Leader of the R.A., Arria Perreault, has said that since I have been elected as Secretary of the New Guild, I am in violation of its charter stating that a member of the R.A. cannot hold that position.
She has asked me to choose whether to stay as a member of the R.A., or as the Secretary of the N.G.
Since accepting the nomination and election to the N.G., I have spent a lot of time discussing its function and history with the outgoing Secretary, Moon Adamant, and various other people. I have also read all of the forums and the other documentations that I can find about it, to better understand its role within the C.D.S. community.
[15:53] Delia Lake: My acceptance of the Secretary position for the N.G. was in good faith, and I had no intentions of undermining the RA, or NG functions in any way.
I have not, in fact, actually done anything in this position yet, other than to create a document with input from any citizen that wished to contribute, about what they would like to see done with the CDS sims to upgrade and improve them.
I do not know why it has taken a month for Arria to decide that she should bring up the point of the NG charter. It seems disingenuous of her to be suddenly concerned about this, when she was not initially.
It was Arria that suggested that I be in charge of sims upgrade, as a member of the RA.
I, as are all of you, a volunteer. I do so with a clear conscience and with only the intentions of helping this community grow.
The CDS badly needs new citizens, new volunteers, and I am afraid that it will dwindle and fade away unless we gain some.
Arria has asked the S.C. to make a ruling about the validity of the votes made during the 3 RA meetings that I have attended since my election as the N.G. secretary. I think that my votes should be held
[15:53] Delia Lake: the 3 RA meetings that I have attended since my election as the N.G. secretary. I think that my votes should be held up, for these reasons:
Firstly, I acted in good faith, and on behalf of the citizens that voted for me to stand for RA. To negate my votes would be a disservice to those voters who also acted in good faith.
Secondly, I have spent all of the time as NG Secretary researching the NG and have not made any other actions that could be construed as in conflict with the RA.
Thirdly, although it may contravene the charter of the New Guild, it does not contravene anything in the RA charter – this would follow that the concern is more particularly for the NG or for the SC, not for the RA.
I have thought long and hard about this situation, and come to the conclusion that only the Scientific Council can make the decision to solve this question. I leave it in their capable hands to make the wisest judgement as to where I should remain in service to the community.
Thank you, I am done.
[15:53] Soro Dagostino accepted your inventory offer.
[15:54] Tor Karlsvalt: thank you Delia
[15:54] Arria Perreault: yes, it is in the transcript. I suggested to Rosie to send you this statement too
[15:54] gina Broono is Online
[15:55] Aliasi Stonebender accepted your inventory offer.
[15:55] Aliasi Stonebender: If I may?
[15:55] Delia Lake: yes please Aliasi
[15:56] Aliasi Stonebender: As I recall, the New Guild, unlike the previous incarnation, is not technically a part of 'government'. It's a non-govt organization with a special charter, a bit like the postal service in the US.
[15:57] Soro Dagostino: That is my understanding too.
[15:57] Delia Lake: I think that is a reasonable analogy
[15:57] Aliasi Stonebender: So she's correct in one detail - it's really more a matter for the Guild than anyone else. I don't really see how the Guild could allow someone in violation of the charter to remain so, but it isn't really *our* problem.
[15:57] Soro Dagostino: I agree.
[15:58] Aliasi Stonebender: since, quite rightly, the RA doesn't have any reciprocating rule.
[15:58] Arria Perreault: If I may a question: why the RA did approve this Charter? and what are the consequences of this vote?
[15:58] Delia Lake: interesting point, Aliasi.
[15:59] Delia Lake: here is the transcript of the meeting of the NG
[15:59] Delia Lake: Elections - NG Board Secretary - 26thJune2011 - Transcript
Postby Moon Adamant » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:12 am
[11:09] Moon Adamant: ok....
[11:09] Moon Adamant: let's start
[11:09] Moon Adamant: please recall that this meeting is transcripted, from this point on
[11:10] Moon Adamant: agenda for today has only a single point - election of the Secretary of the Board, as per our Charter
[11:10] Moon Adamant: you all read, I hope, why myself - the incumbent - cannot keep the role.... so we can skip that
[11:11] Rosie Gray nods
[11:11] Moon Adamant: we have a candidate for the role, Rosie
[11:11] Moon Adamant: so I move that we pass to the election staright away - all citizens of the CDS can vote, I remind everyone present
[11:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'll second that motion!
[11:11] Moon Adamant:
[11:12] Moon Adamant: ok, then please your attention
[11:12] Tor Karlsvalt: pip just crashed
[11:12] Rosie Gray: oops
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Pip...
[11:13] Moon Adamant: all in favour that Rosie Gray should be the
[15:59] Delia Lake: next Secreatry of the board of the New Guild, please say Aye
[11:13] Tor Karlsvalt: wb Pip
[11:13] Fern Leissa: wb Pip
[11:13] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[11:13] Moonrise Azalee: Aye
[11:13] Pip Torok: tks
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye (Moon perhaps you can repeat the vote for Pip's sake?)
[11:13] Rosie Gray: aye
[11:13] Pip Torok: aye
[11:13] Fern Leissa: aye
[11:13] Moon Adamant: ok....
[11:14] Moon Adamant: I hold Sudane's vote, as she can't be here today
[11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah... I guess Pip caught that!
[11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 
[11:14] Moon Adamant: just a sec, so i can copy her message
[11:14] Pip Torok: yes i did!
[11:14] Moon Adamant: Sudane mailed me two days ago, saying:
[11:14] Moon Adamant: Moon,
Unfortunately, because of RL obligations I'll be unable to attend the NG mtg this Sunday (at either time). Sorry!!
May I ask you to cast my proxy vote for Rosie to be new Secretary? I'm happy to support her taking the new role.
[11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sounds good
[11:14] Moon Adamant: and my own vote - Aye
[11:15] Fern Leissa:
[11:15] Moon Adamant: motion carried
[11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we cheer now? ㋡
[15:59] Delia Lake: ote - Aye
[11:15] Fern Leissa:
[11:15] Moon Adamant: motion carried
[11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we cheer now? ㋡
[11:15] Pip Torok: applause!
[11:15] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[11:15] Moon Adamant: Rosie, my congrats!
[11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: CONGRATS, ROsie!!!
[11:15] Fern Leissa: Applause!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111
[11:15] Moonrise Azalee: *claps*
[11:15] Tor Karlsvalt: congrats Rosie
[11:15] Fern Leissa: Congrats Rosie and ty
[11:15] Rosie Gray: lol
[11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn claps too!
[11:15] Rosie Gray: thanks very much everyone
[11:15] Pip Torok: can Felitia be your deputy Rosie?
[11:15] Moonrise Azalee: lol
[11:15] Moon Adamant: Rosie, would you like to say some words?
[11:15] Fern Leissa: hehe
[11:15] Rosie Gray: hehe
[11:15] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:16] Rosie Gray: well, the only thing I would like to say
[11:16] Rosie Gray: is that I hope to live up to what Moon has established
[11:16] Moon Adamant: eheheh I hope you will surpass it easily
[11:16] Rosie Gray: well, there is a lot to be done, and I look forward to it!
[11:17] Moon Adamant: i'll be available in all I can to help you
[11:17]
[15:59] Delia Lake: s a lot to be done, and I look forward to it!
[11:17] Moon Adamant: i'll be available in all I can to help you
[11:17] Rosie Gray: thanks Moon
[11:17] Fern Leissa: Yes... Moon thank you for all you have done.
[11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: Well Moon, I am sure we will need your advice and expertise.
[11:17] Moon Adamant: will be glad to help
[11:17] Moon Adamant: hmm
[11:17] Rosie Gray: I hope we can spend some time talking so I can understand what you've been doing to the best of my ability
[11:18] Moon Adamant: surely... in your time
[11:18] Tor Karlsvalt: I know you have been a big help to me this last term. Especially with floralia peperations and help you provided
[11:18] Rosie Gray: thank you, and for everything you've done
[11:18] Moon Adamant: i am anxious that the transition is made easy
[11:18] Rosie Gray:
[11:19] Rosie Gray: thanks everyone else too, I am sure we can make the NG work carry on
[11:19] Moon Adamant: ok... Rosie, congrats again, I am sure you will do a great job
[11:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn sersiously wishes that to happen, too
[11:19] Fern Leissa: Please ask for help Rosie. I'm sure we will all try to
[15:59] Delia Lake: n sersiously wishes that to happen, too
[11:19] Fern Leissa: Please ask for help Rosie. I'm sure we will all try to do what we can to support you
[11:19] Moon Adamant: you have already shown a capacity for individual initiative which is important
[11:19] Moonrise Azalee: Absolutely
[11:19] Moonrise Azalee nods
[11:19] Fern Leissa: Yup
[11:19] Tor Karlsvalt: Yes, me also
[11:20] Rosie Gray: great, I surely will!
[11:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: woo hoo
[11:20] Rosie Gray:
[11:20] Tor Karlsvalt: in fact one reasion I put NG project support in the budget was to help facilitate things
[11:20] Moon Adamant: ok... we still have a few minutes before RA
[11:20] Fern Leissa:
[11:20] Rosie Gray: well, I apologize, but I have houseguests and it's the middle of the day here
[11:21] Rosie Gray: so I really have to go
[11:21] Moon Adamant: oh
[11:21] Moon Adamant: ok, sure!
[11:21] Moon Adamant: have fun
[11:21] Rosie Gray: thanks!
[11:21] Rosie Gray: bye everyone!!
[11:21] Moonrise Azalee: Bye Rosie
[11:21] Fern Leissa: Bye Rosie
[11:21] Moon Adamant: and I am always available by mail, even if not around in SL, mind
[11:21] Moon
[15:59] Delia Lake: Leissa: Bye Rosie
[11:21] Moon Adamant: and I am always available by mail, even if not around in SL, mind
[11:21] Moonrise Azalee waves
[11:21] Tor Karlsvalt: Bye Rosie
[11:21] Moon Adamant: cheers!
[16:00] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand again
[16:00] Lucida Skytower is Offline
[16:01] Lucida Skytower is Online
[16:01] Trebor Warcliffe: Note that Rosie was a member of the RA when this was held and no one in attendance brought up section 3 part 22 of the charter
[16:01] Pip Torok respectfully suggests that we be shown the relevant lines in this very long transcription
[16:01] Delia Lake: Sorry, Calli, please do speak
[16:01] Callipygian Christensen: Nothing relevant other than the absence of anyone saying 'oh..resign from RA' Pip
[16:01] Callipygian Christensen: Thank you Delia
[16:02] Pip Torok: tks
[16:02] Arria Perreault: a mistake doesn't make a law!
[16:02] Trebor Warcliffe: Correct Calli, no one in the NG had a problem with her taking the Chair position knowing she was also an RA member
[16:02] Callipygian Christensen: Since RA hass no barrier to Rosies position elsewhere the votes seem legal and binding to me, and it is for Guild to ask for her resignation for breaching their charter
[16:02] Delia Lake: because it shows the mood of the meeting as well as the actual election and context, in my opinion the entire transcript of the NG ming is relevant
[16:02] Callipygian Christensen: as for why RA approved the charter..probably ecause there was no reason not to and it seemed like a 'ra ra' great job moment
[16:02] Arria Perreault: I think nobody was aware of the Charter at this moment
[16:03] Callipygian Christensen: approving it does NOT make it an act of RA imo
[16:03] Callipygian Christensen: done
[16:03] Trebor Warcliffe: Moon not aware of the Charter? I find that very hard to belive
[16:03] Callipygian Christensen: I think I was given the floor Trebor Arria
[16:03] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand
[16:03] Trebor Warcliffe: Sorry
[16:03] Delia Lake: yes please, Tor
[16:04] Tor Karlsvalt: Yes thank you
[16:05] Tor Karlsvalt: I wuld liketo point out that the constitution has no restriction on the qualifications of being an RA member other than being a citizen and elected.
[16:05] Tor Karlsvalt: The charter would be in effect a constitutional amendment
[16:05] Tor Karlsvalt: that is not a proper way of amending the constitution
[16:05] Soro Dagostino raises hand
[16:06] Tor Karlsvalt: as is was not posed as such
[16:06] Tor Karlsvalt: done
[16:06] Delia Lake: yes, Soro?
[16:06] Soro Dagostino: I beleive the issue of Rosies status is wholly a Guild issue.
[16:07] Soro Dagostino: Not one that should effect motions and actions of the RA.
[16:07] Aliasi Stonebender: Exactly, the charter *isn't* an amendment, it's the internal bylaws of the Guild.
[16:07] Delia Lake: It would seem that the NG inadvertently violated its own Charter by electing a member of the RA as its Secretary
[16:07] Lucida Skytower is Online
[16:07] Callipygian Christensen nods to Deia'scomment
[16:08] Soro Dagostino: I move the question.
[16:08] Arria Perreault raises hand
[16:08] Delia Lake: and that the NG needs to either amend its Charter or allow for an exception in this case or Rosie needs to step down as Sec
[16:09] Lucida Skytower is Offline
[16:10] Delia Lake: yes Soro. sorry, lag again
[16:14] Delia Lake: so if there is no more debate on the part of the SC members, might we restate the question and put the question to a vote?
[16:14] Callipygian Christensen: Arria is still typing Delia
[16:14] Arria Perreault: I will accept of course the decision of the SC. I just want to add that the New Guild was seen as an advisory board of the RA until now. If we accept the current situation, there is a conflict of interest. In the past, the Secretary of the Board was invited in RA meeings for questions about expansion. Maybe the NG will become one of the organizations the RA works with in questions of expansion, but not the privileged one.
[16:14] Arria Perreault: done
[16:15] Callipygian Christensen: Arria -if the Guild acts as it should, in correcting its own violation of its own charter, there is no ongoing conflict
[16:15] Arria Perreault: (I have personnly problems with the Secretary of Guild voting in the RA about a new sim)
[16:16] Raskolnikow Roffo is Offline
[16:17] Soro Dagostino: I move the matter be dismissed and referred to the Guild for approprate action.
[16:18] Delia Lake: the question embedded in Arria's request would seem to be should the votes of the RA for 3 meetings be vacated on account of RA Rosie Gray being elected Secretary of the NG?
[16:19] Soro Dagostino: If the matter is dismissed we do not have to answer that question.
[16:19] Delia Lake: second to Soro?
[16:20] Aliasi Stonebender: I'll second it.
[16:20] Delia Lake: all in favor?
[16:20] Aliasi Stonebender: aye
[16:20] Soro Dagostino: aye
[16:20] Delia Lake: aye
[16:21] Delia Lake: we will post this request to the Forum, but as the NG is not a government function per se the SC does not have the authority to demand NG action
[16:22] Soro Dagostino raises hand.
[16:22] Delia Lake: the second issue was brought to us by Cesar Xigalia
[16:22] Delia Lake: yes, Soro?
[16:22] Soro Dagostino: Along with a transcript of our deliberations?
[16:23] Delia Lake: yes. our deliberations will be posted to the forum as well
[16:24] Aliasi Stonebender: Ah, yes, Cesar's complaint. I did find one bit a little naive, to be honest.
[16:24] Delia Lake: to refresh everyone's memory, here again is Cesar's complaint
[16:24] Delia Lake: Claude
I wish to complain about the actions of Anna Toussaint who ejected Tyrant Laffer from Colonia Nova.
This followed Rosie Gray griefing Tyrant Laffer by putting a tornado on him. Anna ejected him following his reaction to Rosie. Rosie claimed Tyrant had pushed her. As you will know push is specifically disabled in Colonia Nova, so this is NOT possible
While I do not support Tyrants subsequent actions I also do not support Anna's ejecting him. I do not believe that an officer of CDS (I understand that Anna is the current PIO) is allowed to eject another individual.
This would be an SC matter.
I believe therefore that Anna acted outside her rights as PIO and the matter should be brought before the SC for consideration
Regards Ceasar Xigalia
[16:24] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: there is precedent for this with the Clown and ThePrincess incedent
[16:24] Tor Karlsvalt raises hadn
[16:24] Aliasi Stonebender: Also, push being disabled doesn't mean very much.
[16:25] Aliasi Stonebender: There's plenty of orbiter devices that work in no-push areas.
[16:25] Aliasi Stonebender: heck, I could pull one out right now.
[16:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: he was playing on a skateboard having fun
[16:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and they rezzed a tornado over him
[16:25] Notary Desk whispers: Passed self test.
[16:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and so he did something silly and they ejected and banned him, anna and rosie gray
[16:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: hes my nephew, they never one time asked him to stop skating
[16:26] Pip Torok: I assert that Rosie wd have been under considerable provocation from "Tyrant" for her to have made such an action.
[16:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and we were there first
[16:26] Delia Lake: I have a question for Tor as Chancellor, if you wouldn't mind Tor. I would like to know what is the current policy of the CDS re griefing as I believe that is under the jurisdiction of the Chancellor
[16:26] Soro Dagostino: In a town near mine, RL and skateboarder hit a woman on the street. She died.
[16:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: you weren tthere and there is precedent
[16:26] Tor Karlsvalt: I would call attention to NL 4-24 Defense of the Republic Act.
[16:26] Soro Dagostino: He was charged with murder.
[16:27] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: this isnt rl, soro, does no one remember when theprincess ejected the clown in RA
[16:27] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: tha t clown was in her face jumping up and down so she coudlnt see, surely you recall that, Claude would
[16:27] Tor Karlsvalt: The Chancellor and several in the exec are entrusted with EM authority and that includes the power to ban
[16:27] Aliasi Stonebender: well, yeah, not like anyone's going to die. On the other hand, Tyrant isn't a citizen?
[16:27] Callipygian Christensen ponders what the subsequent actions Tyrant did, that Caesar does not support and CLEO defines as 'silly' were
[16:28] Tor Karlsvalt: Also, Anna as the PIO has this power.
[16:28] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i , um, the p had the power but i used it and the SC got all over me
[16:28] Tor Karlsvalt: So do I and Lilith, and Sudane.
[16:28] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: with no questions to anyone ? you can just ban at your own discretion ?
[16:29] Tor Karlsvalt: I further note that the ban list on all the sims, includes at least six names
[16:29] Pip Torok: Yes CLEO
[16:29] Delia Lake: are there current guidelines for what kinds of things are bannable offenses? or is it left to the disgression of the CDS officer present at the time?
[16:29] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: why didnt anna and rosie leave if they didnt .. shut up pip
[16:29] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: why didnt they leave, or ask first, i think because we were looking to buy land and rosie knows i dont like the church she did and they didnt want us there
[16:30] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we werent hurting anyone at all
[16:30] Pip Torok notes CLEO's outrageous provocation
[16:30] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: sut up pip
[16:30] Tor Karlsvalt: There must be more than 20 in NFS alone. Thus the poser to ban is well established.
[16:30] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: shut up pip
[16:30] Tor Karlsvalt: done
[16:30] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: make him shut up
[16:30] Callipygian Christensen laughs
[16:31] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: may i ask that we hear this when CLaude is here because he knwos what happened before
[16:31] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: please
[16:31] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: he knows the precedent
[16:32] Delia Lake: law 4-24 says
Definition
Griefing is defined here as behaviour designed to harrass others or to damage the sim. It includes inter alia harrassing avatars for racial, sexual or homophobic reasons; deleting or defacing public or private property in Neulatenburg; armed or unarmed combat with unwilling parties and attempts to crash the sim.
[16:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: actually the CDS govt officials provoked him
[16:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: they rezzed a tornado on him
[16:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: can they do that too ?
[16:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: if they dont like someone
[16:33] Aliasi Stonebender: Looks like a he said she said situation.
[16:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: they should have banned themsleves
[16:33] Pip Torok reasserts that there must have been provocation from "Tyrant"
[16:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: pop wwereyou there
[16:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Pip wasnt there.
[16:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so how does he know
[16:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: he doesnt
[16:33] Trebor Warcliffe: RAISES HAND
[16:33] Callipygian Christensen: CLEO..you said yourself he did something silly..what was it?
[16:33] Ranma Tardis: raises hand
[16:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: what he did was play on a skateboard he was showing his uncle Ceasar
[16:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and when he was doing it they said he accidentally bumped them
[16:34] Delia Lake: it sort of does to me also Aliasi. I don't feel I have enough information about what actually happened
[16:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: but they never one time said dont do it
[16:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and we were there on the skdewalk first anyway and why they surrounded us i dont know
[16:34] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand
[16:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: they could have asked him to stop
[16:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: or leave
[16:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: this is why you dont have new citiens cos youare all kinda mean
[16:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: hes a cute young man and he was having fun, so instead of using their words, they rezzed a tornato on him
[16:35] Delia Lake: Ranma?
[16:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: haha tornado
[16:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: not tomato
[16:35] Ranma Tardis: excue me using a scripted object on someone in a non combat sim is against the Linden TOS
[16:36] Pip Torok realises that CLEO has betrayed herself with that statement
[16:36] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: well ranma the first person to do that was rosie or anna i dont knwo whiich
[16:36] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: pip please shut up
[16:36] Tor Karlsvalt: Both Anna and Rosie described the incident as a sexual assault.
[16:36] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: this isnt about you
[16:36] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: that as after he had been tornado'd
[16:36] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: he rezed a ball
[16:36] Ranma Tardis: being against the TOS is an automatic violation of cds law
[16:36] Callipygian Christensen: Tor..even Caesar admits Tryant did somehting inappropriate..but CLEO would like to just ignore thaat
[16:37] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i just said he did, but it was provoked by them
[16:37] Delia Lake: please no discourtesies among visitors during this meeting
[16:37] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: stand in the comomn area and harrass people and you will get them to do things
[16:37] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: they were harrassing us first not vis versa
[16:38] Pip Torok notes the use of verbal harassment in this room
[16:38] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: by yourself pop ?
[16:38] Soro Dagostino raises hand
[16:38] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: note your own words please and leave me alone
[16:38] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i get it you dont like me pip but leave me alone okay
[16:38] Delia Lake: so I am still not clear as to what Tyrant Laffer was doing previous to anything that Rosie or Anna might have done.
[16:38] Delia Lake: yes Soro?
[16:39] Indicator Board (Business Ver): Arria Perreault is away!
[16:39] Callipygian Christensen: Madame Chair - since the questin was 'does the PIO have the right to do this' and the answer was 'yes' isnt the rest moot, and the concern aobout Tos something that should be ARed to LL?
[16:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: he was riding a skateboard delia
[16:39] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand
[16:39] Soro Dagostino: I move that this matter be tabled until the parties can be present to testify.
[16:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: indeed calli it is
[16:39] Indicator Board (Business Ver): Arria Perreault is online!
[16:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i was a innocent bystander is all
[16:39] Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, this is just devolving to a bunch of name-calling, there's nothing we can do about it right now.
[16:39] Tor Karlsvalt: Quite
[16:39] Delia Lake: I'm inclined to to that also, Soro
[16:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: can the RA eject and ban someone
[16:39] Ranma Tardis: poletily coughs having someone do something to you is not justification to violate the Linden TOS
[16:40] Tor Karlsvalt: NL 4-24 Defense of the Republic Act
[16:40] Delia Lake: Tor do you have something else to add here?
[16:40] Ranma Tardis: coughs Linden TOS is higher law than the cds
[16:41] Tor Karlsvalt: well I think the question as to if Anna has the power is yes. But the SC can review the decision.
[16:41] Trebor Warcliffe: Raises hand!!!
[16:41] Delia Lake: yes Trebor?
[16:41] Tor Karlsvalt: that is what the law says
[16:41] Trebor Warcliffe: May I suggest that we allow all parties concerned, Tyrant, Caesar, rosie, and anna
[16:42] Trebor Warcliffe: The opportunity to present thier sides
[16:42] Soro Dagostino: That is my motion
[16:42] Trebor Warcliffe: Id hate to see someone banned permanantly if the matter can be resolved peacefully and within the CDS
[16:42] Soro Dagostino: Call the question.
[16:42] Delia Lake: yes, that is what Soro is suggesting
[16:42] Trebor Warcliffe: thanky you, done
[16:42] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and claude please, respectfully
[16:43] Delia Lake: I move that we table this question to be revisited at a time when the parties involved can be present.
[16:43] Soro Dagostino: second
[16:43] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: thank you very much for your consideration
[16:43] Delia Lake: sorry. lag again.
[16:43] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and fairness
[16:44] Callipygian Christensen: anma..I am having trouble finding the reference in ToS..can you tell me which part you find it in?
[16:44] Pip Torok agrees with CLEO's last two statements
[16:44] Soro Dagostino: I am going to have to leave soon. RL office time.
[16:45] Delia Lake: the vote to table is unanimous, Ali?
[16:45] Callipygian Christensen: I think the scripted object thing is actually in COmmunity Standards
[16:45] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: the tornado they used was scripted
[16:45] Delia Lake: Thank you everyone for coming to the SC meeting today.
[16:45] Soro Dagostino: Goodbye all
[16:46] Tor Karlsvalt: The new member?
[16:46] Ranma Tardis: I forget where but Linden TOS is part of the backbone of the concitution
[16:46] Callipygian Christensen: Community Standards are actionable by LL but are not actually listed in the ToS iirc
[16:46] Delia Lake: With the conclusion of this meeting, I turn over the Deanship of the SC to Soro
[16:46] Trebor Warcliffe: Thank you to the SC for their help in these very important matters dealt with today.
[16:46] Soro Dagostino is Offline
[16:46] Tor Karlsvalt: thank you Delia and Aliasi
[16:47] Tor Karlsvalt: Also Soro
[16:47] Aliasi Stonebender: alright, so that seems to be everything?
[16:47] Delia Lake nods
[16:47] Delia Lake: yes. the SC meeting is adjourned