[15:00] Trebor Warcliffe: Greetings everyone
[15:01] Rosie Gray: hehe
[15:01] Delia Lake: maybe if it were movec back just a bit
[15:01] Arria Perreault: Hi Lilith ㋡
[15:01] Lilith Ivory: Hi everybody 
[15:01] Rosie Gray: hi Lilith
[15:02] Tanoujin Milestone: HI Shep
[15:02] Soro Dagostino: We needed more chairs -- and I thought it would work
[15:02] Shep Titian: Hi all
[15:02] Trebor Warcliffe: Hi Shep
[15:02] Rosie Gray: hiya Shep
[15:02] Delia Lake: btw, I put today's agenda along with a bunch of other SC info into the box on the edge of the table here
[15:02] Arria Perreault: Hi Shep
[15:03] Delia Lake: it's fine as a chair. it just needs to move back a little I think so I don't sit backwards the first 4 x I try. or I need a string on my wrist to remind myself to stand in front, lol
[15:04] Delia Lake: Calli is expecting to be here but she has been sick this weekend and isn't yet inworld
[15:04] Rosie Gray: awh poor Calli
[15:04] Soro Dagostino: Oh?! I am sorry . . . didn't know
[15:05] Arria Perreault: Sorry to hear
[15:05] Soro Dagostino: We have three, may we begin?
[15:05] Lilith Ivory: Sudane said she will try to come also to provide some info
[15:05] Soro Dagostino: We can wait for a little.
[15:06] Arria Perreault: Hi Guillaume
[15:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: Salvete, all.
[15:06] Trebor Warcliffe: Hey Guill, very cool outfit
[15:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: Thanks, Trebor ㋡
[15:06] Shep Titian: Hi G
[15:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hey! Shep
[15:07] Lilith Ivory: Hi Gui
[15:07] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hi Lil ㋡
[15:07] Soro Dagostino: Delia -- do you have a way to reach Calli?
[15:08] Delia Lake: looking...
[15:08] Rosie Gray: Hi Guillaume
[15:08] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hi, Rosie ㋡
[15:08] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[15:09] Lilith Ivory: maybe waiting for a note?
[15:09] Soro Dagostino: could be.
[15:10] Delia Lake: just send Calli an email but she is not active online right now
[15:10] Soro Dagostino: I think we should proceed.
[15:10] Delia Lake: yes
[15:10] Soro Dagostino: Hello everyone.
[15:11] Soro Dagostino: The Agenda and discussion items are in the box on the desk
[15:11] Soro Dagostino: Please take copies.
[15:11] Soro Dagostino: the meeting will be logged in SL chat.
[15:12] Soro Dagostino: It is assumed that if you ask to speak, you consent to recordation.
[15:12] Soro Dagostino: We ask that you all so respond.
[15:12] Delia Lake: I agree to be recorded
[15:12] Soro Dagostino: As I.
[15:13] Lilith Ivory: I agree also
[15:13] Soro Dagostino: first item of business -- Conseration of candidate for appointment to the Scientific Council
[15:13] Guillaume Mistwalker wonders if anyone has ever NOT consented.
[15:14] Soro Dagostino: Are there any nominations?
[15:14] Guillaume Mistwalker: Excuse me for a few...
[15:14] Delia Lake: yes please
[15:14] Soro Dagostino: Delia . . .
[15:14] Delia Lake: I nominate Arria Perrault to be a member of the Scientific Council
[15:14] Soro Dagostino: Second?
[15:14] Lilith Ivory: I second
[15:15] Soro Dagostino: Discussion?
[15:15] Delia Lake: If I might say a few words in way of discussion?
[15:16] Delia Lake: Petitions were made to the SC to nominate both Arria and Sonja to the SC
[15:16] Delia Lake: this is the first time we used the process I drafted regarding the duties and expectations
[15:17] Delia Lake: I gave a copy of the draft document to each of them
[15:17] Delia Lake: I then had conversations alone and with Calli with each Arria and Sonja
[15:18] Delia Lake: In our conversations i felt that each understood well what the work of the SC was
[15:18] Delia Lake: at the end of our conversation, Arria wanted to move forward and be nominated to the SC which I have done today
[15:19] Delia Lake: Sonja decided that she did not want to join the SC at this time and asked that she not be nominated
[15:19] Delia Lake: Arria has been an active citizen and strong contributer to the CDS community for many years now
[15:20] Delia Lake: It is my pleasure to nominate her to join this body
[15:20] Delia Lake: done
[15:21] Delia Lake: Perhaps we might want to ask Arria to say something about why she is interested in joining the SC?
[15:21] Soro Dagostino: Arria, you may have the floor.
[15:21] Arria Perreault: thank you
[15:22] Arria Perreault: first I thank you Delia to have nominated me and I thank you Delia and Calli for the interesting converstations we had
[15:23] Arria Perreault: I am active in the CDS community and I had several positions: I was in the RA, I was twice LRA and I was also long time ago in the Executive as PIO
[15:24] Arria Perreault: I have a good experience of CDS
[15:24] Arria Perreault: I have asked myself recently how I can continue to serve the community
[15:25] Arria Perreault: It was clear for me that I don't wan't intend to run again for the RA for a while
[15:25] Arria Perreault: and I have seriously considered a work in the SC
[15:25] Arria Perreault: I think it's a very interesting work
[15:26] Arria Perreault: it need a good knowledge of our law
[15:26] Arria Perreault: it needs to be neutral
[15:27] Arria Perreault: it needs also to be a good coordinator , especially for the elections
[15:28] Arria Perreault: I have read the text of Delia about the qualifications to be candidate and I totaly agree with it
[15:28] Arria Perreault: I would be happy to continue to serve the community being member of the SC
[15:28] Arria Perreault: done
[15:28] Delia Lake: ty, Arria
[15:28] Arria Perreault: I thank you also the citizen who has proposed my name in the forums
[15:29] Soro Dagostino: Questions from the SC?
[15:29] Delia Lake: I have no questions. I am satisfied that Arria understands the work and is committed to do her best to uphold the CDS constitution
[15:30] Lilith Ivory: I have no questions also
[15:30] Soro Dagostino: Questions from the audience?
[15:31] Trebor Warcliffe: None from me. I feel Arria will be a good addition to the SC.
[15:31] Soro Dagostino: Any others?
[15:33] Soro Dagostino: Then shall we call the question?
[15:33] Delia Lake: yes
[15:33] Lilith Ivory nods
[15:33] Soro Dagostino: All in favor.
[15:33] Lilith Ivory: aye
[15:33] Delia Lake: Aye
[15:34] Soro Dagostino: Aye
[15:34] Soro Dagostino: Welcom Arria . .
[15:34] Delia Lake: here comes Calli
[15:34] Arria Perreault: Thank you very much ㋡
[15:34] Rosie Gray: ··•°•··..☺ Applauds! ☺ ..··•°•··..
[15:34] Delia Lake: welcome Arria
[15:34] Lilith Ivory: welcome Arria
[15:34] Soro Dagostino: You may take a chair.
[15:34] Shep Titian: Congrats Arria
[15:34] Trebor Warcliffe: congradulations
[15:34] Rosie Gray: congratulations Arria ㋡
[15:34] Soro Dagostino: we do have business to do.
[15:35] Lilith Ivory: Hi Calli
[15:35] Delia Lake: Hi Calli
[15:35] Arria Perreault: Hi Calli ㋡
[15:35] Soro Dagostino: Hello Calli
[15:35] Delia Lake: we just elected Arria to the SC
[15:36] Callipygian Christensen: hi everyone - apologies for lateness
[15:36] Callipygian Christensen: oh!
[15:36] Callipygian Christensen: welcome to the SC then Arria
[15:36] Arria Perreault: thank you Calli ㋡
[15:37] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[15:37] Soro Dagostino: Moving on
[15:38] Soro Dagostino: Item 2 on the agenda.
[15:38] Soro Dagostino: the process of citizenship re payment of tier and the census
[15:39] Soro Dagostino: Where there is a gap between policy and technology.
[15:39] Soro Dagostino: Delia is the proponent.
[15:39] Delia Lake: and Calli
[15:39] Delia Lake: and it will be helpful to hear from Sudane on this as well
[15:40] Delia Lake: I wanted to have this topic on our agenda as the RA has set up a new Commission on Citizenship
[15:40] Delia Lake: in the past citizenship commissions have paid little attention to the technology required
[15:41] Delia Lake: and as we are the body who must certify citizenship for elections
[15:41] Delia Lake: we have a strong interest in the requirements actually being doable
[15:41] Sudane Erato:
[15:42] Callipygian Christensen would add 'easily understandable' to that also
[15:42] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[15:42] Lilith Ivory: I agree
[15:42] Delia Lake: and perhaps posted all in one place, easy to find inworld and on the Forum?
[15:43] Lilith Ivory: yay!
[15:44] Delia Lake: Right now we are supposed to certify by the day date of citizenship. 28 days a citizen. but by 28 days many people have not paid their first tier
[15:44] Delia Lake: and we have currently 2 different payment systems
[15:45] Delia Lake: and they do not have the same capabilities for handling citizenship via group membership
[15:45] Callipygian Christensen: May I interjext something on that point Deia?
[15:45] Delia Lake: anyway that is my understanding, and please at any time if I am not stating things accurately Sudane please correct me
[15:45] Callipygian Christensen: or 'interject'
[15:45] Delia Lake: please do Calli
[15:46] Callipygian Christensen: The two payment systems currently cause an inequity to one set of potetnial citizens
[15:47] Lilith Ivory: may I say someting also?
[15:47] Callipygian Christensen: The hippo method allows a partner to be registered on the payment system, where as the old sytem does not
[15:47] Rosie Gray sneaks quietly away
[15:47] Soro Dagostino: This open conversation by the SC.
[15:48] Guillaume Mistwalker sneaks away too...
[15:48] Soro Dagostino: Lilith
[15:48] Callipygian Christensen: as a result, some partnrs can attain citizenship easily and at no cost above the set tier of the parcel, but thers must notify Sudane and pay an additional 'tier' amount
[15:48] Lilith Ivory: maybe we should let talk Sudane first as as far as I know a lot of those problems might be solved by 1 Feb
[15:49] Sudane Erato: oooh... there are many problems and issues... so we must define them and take them step by step
[15:49] Lilith Ivory: but at least we don´t have two systems anymore
[15:49] Sudane Erato: to comment briefly on Delia's point abot group membership
[15:49] Sudane Erato: neither system has the ability to manage it
[15:50] Sudane Erato: and, yes, Lithith will be correct
[15:50] Sudane Erato: soon
[15:50] Sudane Erato: there remains yet half of CN and all of NFS to equip with boxes
[15:50] Sudane Erato: done
[15:50] Sudane Erato: await further questions
[15:51] Arria Perreault: I have a question
[15:51] Soro Dagostino: Arria
[15:51] Arria Perreault: Sudane, is it easy to extract a list of citizen with the new system (Hippo)?
[15:52] Sudane Erato: if we define citizens as those people who have paid tier to a tier box, then yes
[15:52] Sudane Erato: keeping in mind however
[15:52] Sudane Erato: that
[15:52] Sudane Erato: there is NO essential connection between any tier box and ownership of a parcel
[15:52] Sudane Erato: except on paper
[15:53] Sudane Erato: Hippo will give us a list of payors... and their status if late
[15:53] Arria Perreault: does it mean that you have to control sometimes if the payer id the owner?
[15:53] Arria Perreault: is*
[15:54] Sudane Erato: we will have to adjust that VERY often whenever a parcel changes owners
[15:54] Sudane Erato: almost every time
[15:54] Trebor Warcliffe: Raises hand
[15:54] Soro Dagostino: Trebor
[15:55] Trebor Warcliffe: When one citizen sells a parcel to another individual
[15:55] Trebor Warcliffe: we will have to go into Hippo, remove the old owner and place the new owner and than the new owner can pay their tier
[15:56] Trebor Warcliffe: With a Rudeen owned parcel the Hippo Box will accept payment and all they have to do is pay the land tab
[15:56] Trebor Warcliffe: done
[15:56] Sudane Erato: except
[15:56] Sudane Erato: if the old owner still has paid tier on their box
[15:56] Trebor Warcliffe: Well yes I was saving that oen for later LOL
[15:56] Sudane Erato:
[15:57] Callipygian Christensen: With hippo there can also be the issue of pre-paid tier on the parcel I think?
[15:57] Sudane Erato: or if the owner is in arrears and needs to be booted
[15:57] Trebor Warcliffe: yes we are settign the maximum amount of tiem at 3 months Calli
[15:57] Trebor Warcliffe: time
[15:57] Sudane Erato: yes, there can be, but there are some disadvantages
[15:57] Sudane Erato: yes
[15:58] Trebor Warcliffe: Sudane did you want me to address the refunding of tier?
[15:58] Delia Lake: I am seeing a couple of additional problems here. First has to do with citizens who sell their land rather than Rudeen selling. if the boxes have to be resigned by Sudane or Trebor how do u 2 know the sale has taken place?
[15:58] Sudane Erato: sure if you would like
[15:58] Trebor Warcliffe: Really though this is more of a citizenship question time
[15:58] Sudane Erato: Delia
[15:58] Sudane Erato: an impoprtant tool that we have
[15:59] Sudane Erato: is a "land scanner" created by Timo
[15:59] Trebor Warcliffe: awesome tool
[15:59] Sudane Erato: it alerts those of us who are the recipients
[15:59] Sudane Erato: of ANY land ownership change
[15:59] Sudane Erato: and that can prompt us to action
[15:59] Delia Lake: very good
[16:00] Arria Perreault: who is getting the information provided by this tool?
[16:00] Trebor Warcliffe: We have 4 team members tasked with addressing ownership with Hippo and hte Land Scanner
[16:00] Sudane Erato: we have a group of 4 land managers
[16:00] Sudane Erato: yes
[16:01] Trebor Warcliffe: We all get the email and we all have access completly to hippo
[16:01] Arria Perreault: who are these 4 land managers?
[16:01] Trebor Warcliffe: Myself
[16:01] Sudane Erato: at this time Trebor, me, Tor and Lilith
[16:01] Trebor Warcliffe: sorry
[16:01] Arria Perreault: thx
[16:02] Delia Lake: another issue that has occurred to me is related to the 28 days
[16:02] Soro Dagostino: Is there a suggested resolution?
[16:02] Trebor Warcliffe: Whats the question Delia?
[16:02] Sudane Erato: that is a big issue
[16:03] Delia Lake: that is say someone purchases land on the first day of a new payment term
[16:03] Trebor Warcliffe: There is no "new payment term"
[16:03] Delia Lake: the tier payment is not due until 30 or 31 days afterwards, and then a 7 day grace period
[16:03] Sudane Erato: note... with Hippo, there is no fixed payment term
[16:03] Sudane Erato: oh
[16:04] Trebor Warcliffe: I can explain if you like
[16:04] Delia Lake: so if we have an election within the 29 to 38 day period
[16:04] Sudane Erato: that is not a problem, since we require payment simultaeous with purchase of land
[16:04] Trebor Warcliffe: exactly
[16:04] Sudane Erato: Trebor, sorry
[16:04] Trebor Warcliffe: within 24hrs
[16:04] Sudane Erato: you go
[16:04] Delia Lake: a person could be certified as a citizen but never paid tier
[16:04] Trebor Warcliffe: no Deluia
[16:04] Trebor Warcliffe: Heres hwo it works
[16:05] Trebor Warcliffe: Joe buys a parcel today.
[16:05] Trebor Warcliffe: Within 24 hours he has to pay his tier.
[16:05] Trebor Warcliffe: The 24 hours is because if one of us has to reset the hippo box
[16:05] Trebor Warcliffe: it gives us enough time to take care of it
[16:05] Sudane Erato: (hopefully)
[16:05] Trebor Warcliffe: The land scanner will record when the land transaction took place
[16:06] Trebor Warcliffe: And we can verify with Hippo that the tier has been paid
[16:06] Trebor Warcliffe: So we know when Joe's first day in the CDS is and will be able to calculate huis 28 days from there
[16:06] Trebor Warcliffe: done on that one
[16:06] Delia Lake: that's good
[16:06] Trebor Warcliffe: next one please hehehe
[16:06] Sudane Erato: but... please note
[16:07] Sudane Erato: it is not clear how efficiently the system preserves the date of Joe's first payment
[16:07] Callipygian Christensen: So it might be possible for Joe to 'be' a land owning citizen on the day to qualify to vote, but not have paid tier yet - the payment allowed to come the day after?
[16:07] Sudane Erato: that may be hard to retrieve
[16:07] Trebor Warcliffe: no
[16:07] Trebor Warcliffe: Calli Joe has to be a citizen for a minimum of 28 days
[16:08] Callipygian Christensen: Or longer if all the land managers are off on a wild weekend in Vegas?
[16:08] Sudane Erato:
[16:08] Sudane Erato: yep... we discussed plans for that
[16:08] Trebor Warcliffe: So he wouldnt be able to purchase on Monday and vote on Tuesday
[16:09] Arria Perreault: no, but we have to determine the exact date Joe is citizen
[16:09] Callipygian Christensen: Trebor, no but he could purchase today - the qualifying day , 28 days before census date, but not pay until tomorrow or after
[16:09] Sudane Erato: agreed
[16:09] Trebor Warcliffe: oh ok I see what you're saying
[16:09] Trebor Warcliffe: thank you for clarifying that
[16:09] Trebor Warcliffe: Technically
[16:09] Trebor Warcliffe: If it is a purchase from Rudeen than it would be the minute they pay the hippo box
[16:09] Delia Lake: so from when do we count the 28 day period?
[16:09] Sudane Erato: the qualifying date MUST be the tier payment date
[16:10] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes MUST be tier payment date
[16:10] Sudane Erato: we have no way of tracking the ownership date
[16:10] Arria Perreault: the next date is 13 april 2012
[16:10] Arria Perreault: what happens if Joe buy on 13th April and pay the first tier on 14th?
[16:10] Trebor Warcliffe: We do with the land scanner Sudane don't we?
[16:11] Lilith Ivory: knowing that date it should be possible to have a manager available I guess
[16:11] Sudane Erato: Trebor, in theory, yes... but the land scanner does not generate a list
[16:11] Trebor Warcliffe: Arria according to our laws it is from the date they paid tier
[16:11] Trebor Warcliffe: Correct it doesnt generate a list
[16:11] Soro Dagostino: May the Dean interject?
[16:11] Callipygian Christensen: Exactly Arria - Joe becomes the next catalyst for an arguement over whether or not his is a citizen with voting rights
[16:11] Trebor Warcliffe: "tier paying citizen" I think is how its stated
[16:12] Soro Dagostino: Or do I have to slamming a gavel.
[16:12] Sudane Erato:
[16:12] Trebor Warcliffe: No slamming
[16:12] Soro Dagostino: kk
[16:12] Soro Dagostino: This seems to be a large topic.
[16:12] Trebor Warcliffe: Its a big tree with many branches
[16:13] Soro Dagostino: Would it be best to be put to a commission of SC Members and Executives to see if a logical plan of rules can be developed?
[16:13] Trebor Warcliffe: Rules for what though?
[16:13] Soro Dagostino: Why is it here?
[16:14] Trebor Warcliffe: I dont follow Soro, Im sorry
[16:14] Soro Dagostino: I think the problem should be resolved.
[16:14] Delia Lake: we the SC do not want to write the legislation or probably not even propose but we I think to need to send a note to Anna as LRA and I think Pat is the chair of the commission with our concerns about doable-ness
[16:15] Delia Lake: and maybe have an exec and SC advisory people to the commission for tech stuff?
[16:15] Soro Dagostino: Thank you Delia . . . you type faster than me.
[16:15] Trebor Warcliffe: Can the "problem" please be stated so I know what the SC is looking to accomplish please.
[16:16] Delia Lake: yes
[16:16] Soro Dagostino: Delia -- Calli
[16:17] Delia Lake: the SC is looking to have clear, understandable even for english as second lang people--and easily findable policy and rules on who is a citizen, how one becomes a citizen, when the 28 day period for voting starts
[16:17] Trebor Warcliffe: thank you
[16:17] Delia Lake: and to have that be consistent with what is technologically possible
[16:17] Trebor Warcliffe: very good
[16:17] Delia Lake: otherwise any certification is meaningless
[16:17] Trebor Warcliffe: agreed
[16:17] Delia Lake: and the SC is the cert body
[16:18] Trebor Warcliffe: Raises hand
[16:18] Callipygian Christensen: I would even go so far as to suggest that no new citizenship law or amendment be passed until Sudane has confirmed that it has a workable method of identifying a census list
[16:18] Delia Lake: very good Calli
[16:18] Soro Dagostino: Trebor?
[16:19] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes
[16:19] Sudane Erato: i think the law qualifying citizenship may have to changed in order to do this
[16:19] Sudane Erato: sorry
[16:19] Delia Lake: we think so also
[16:19] Trebor Warcliffe: Basically we're talking a 24 hour time period. If they havent paid tier within 24 hours than they are booted.
[16:19] Soro Dagostino: Is it the consensus to move this to a commision?
[16:20] Trebor Warcliffe: Unless its a CDS technical issue
[16:20] Trebor Warcliffe: ill stop speaking now hehe
[16:20] Delia Lake: the RA has appointed a commission
[16:20] Sudane Erato: Trebor, i disagreee... its not that simple
[16:20] Soro Dagostino: Its not going to get solved here.
[16:20] Delia Lake: we need I think to send a message to that commission and to the LRA with our concerns
[16:20] Trebor Warcliffe: You're correct Sudane it is actually a little more involved than that
[16:21] Arria Perreault: do we have SC members in this commission?
[16:21] Delia Lake: I don't believe that we do
[16:21] Delia Lake: and we might not want to be on the commission but to be advisory for information
[16:21] Callipygian Christensen: I pan to atttend meetings of the commission
[16:21] Soro Dagostino: Delia, woiuld you chair a group made up of you, Calli and Arria -- to contact the commission?
[16:21] Delia Lake: and someone from the exec as well
[16:22] Callipygian Christensen: plan
[16:22] Delia Lake: I think we can draft an official note to the RA, yes
[16:22] Trebor Warcliffe: Who is Chair of that Commission please.
[16:23] Soro Dagostino: Circulate to the SC members and then move forward?
[16:23] Delia Lake: my recollection is that Pat is. not sure though
[16:23] Callipygian Christensen: Pat is
[16:23] Trebor Warcliffe: I'll reach out to him than tu
[16:23] Soro Dagostino: Is that the consensus?
[16:24] Delia Lake: yes from me
[16:24] Arria Perreault: yes
[16:24] Soro Dagostino: Lilith?
[16:24] Callipygian Christensen: yes from me also
[16:24] Soro Dagostino: Calli
[16:24] Soro Dagostino: oops
[16:24] Soro Dagostino: Lilith?
[16:24] Delia Lake: love sl lag
[16:24] Soro Dagostino: I approve too.
[16:24] Lilith Ivory: yes
[16:25] Sudane Erato: good... and i apologize... i must go
[16:25] Soro Dagostino: Delia will you report back next meeting.
[16:25] Sudane Erato: ty!
[16:25] Arria Perreault: bye Sudane ㋡
[16:25] Soro Dagostino: Thanks Sudane
[16:26] Delia Lake: yes
[16:26] Soro Dagostino: There is another, complex and multifaceted matter on the agenda
[16:26] Soro Dagostino: The Dean thinks the materials should be circulated, read and the matter should be tabled to next meeting
[16:27] Trebor Warcliffe: ))
[16:27] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[16:27] Soro Dagostino: Yes Calli
[16:27] Delia Lake raises her hand also
[16:27] Soro Dagostino: Calli first
[16:28] Callipygian Christensen: Soro, the RA has directed Beathan andPat to work on a framework for this subject - examining how the SC does its work and any neede/desired changes
[16:28] Callipygian Christensen: I suggested since Delia and I ar doing the same thing that w work with them
[16:29] Soro Dagostino: I don't disagree
[16:29] Callipygian Christensen: So I do not believ delaying discussion of this until next meein inotalis a good ide. Delia andI needome comment mthe SC move for th
[16:29] Callipygian Christensen: 'in total is'
[16:29] Soro Dagostino: Its just that we are out of time.
[16:30] Delia Lake: to that end I made a beginning post on the forum a little while ago
[16:30] Delia Lake: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... 346#p19346
[16:30] Callipygian Christensen smaccks her keyboard 'we need some authorization/comment foom the SC so that we can move forward on this with them'
[16:30] Soro Dagostino: I saw that and have the copy
[16:31] Soro Dagostino: It is good work.
[16:31] Lilith Ivory: I´m all in favour to start with that commision as soon as possible
[16:31] Callipygian Christensen: Can we at least have the members of the SC indicate their support of Delia and I doing this?
[16:31] Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[16:31] Lilith Ivory: you have mine
[16:31] Soro Dagostino: It should be the basis of the SC's position.
[16:32] Soro Dagostino: So you don't have to bang on your keyboard . . .
[16:32] Delia Lake: there are a few issues here to me
[16:32] Delia Lake: 1st is the separation of branches and balance of power
[16:32] Delia Lake: that was the intent of the founders I believe and how we still operate
[16:33] Delia Lake: I feel that is an important precept
[16:33] Callipygian Christensen nods in agreement with Delia
[16:33] Lilith Ivory nods
[16:33] Soro Dagostino: Arria?
[16:34] Soro Dagostino: Moving on
[16:34] Soro Dagostino: I Agree
[16:34] Delia Lake: what follows from that for me is that the RA can ammend or modify the constitution but cannot determine the operating policies of the SC
[16:35] Delia Lake: the RA may suggest as we may to them and as the Chancellor can to both of us
[16:36] Arria Perreault: Delia, the link you gave is a post about locking back in the history of the community
[16:36] Arria Perreault: is it the right link?
[16:36] Delia Lake: otherwise there is no separation and the sC or the chancellorshop would become a sub group of the RA, or the RA or SC would be a subgroup of the Exec and there would be no balance
[16:36] Arria Perreault: looking*
[16:36] Soro Dagostino: brb -- Delia would you take the chair?
[16:36] Delia Lake: yes, it is the right link Arria. I want to set the stage historically for changes made in the constitution
[16:37] Arria Perreault: ok
[16:37] Delia Lake: one of the problems we face here on the SC is that changes were made in 2007 with the initiation of a Judiciary along with the SC
[16:38] Delia Lake: that Judiciary was in the end repudiated
[16:38] Delia Lake: however some of the changes to the constitution and the laws of the land stood
[16:38] Delia Lake: so we have leftovers
[16:39] Delia Lake: it is important imo to look at the original intent, agree or disagree with that and then look at what we have as our laws
[16:39] Delia Lake: otherwise, to layer on new laws and ammendments creates a mess
[16:39] Soro Dagostino: Back
[16:39] Lilith Ivory nods
[16:40] Soro Dagostino: Agreed
[16:40] Delia Lake: I do not want to be part of creating a new mess
[16:40] Callipygian Christensen: I might add tht those archaic laws and amendments have never actually been practised and are even contradictory on many levels
[16:40] Delia Lake: yes, Calli
[16:41] Lilith Ivory: I see there is a mess already that needs to be cleaned up first
[16:41] Delia Lake: and contradictiory is particularly difficult for a body such as the SC that is supposed to conserve
[16:42] Arria Perreault: I think that the separation of the branches is an important principle
[16:43] Soro Dagostino: Ok
[16:43] Callipygian Christensen: I will add something while we await Delia's return
[16:43] Soro Dagostino: What should the action of SC?
[16:44] Soro Dagostino: Calli?
[16:44] Callipygian Christensen: Both of us have spent a number of hours researching these points and discussing possible directions for the SC to consider
[16:45] Soro Dagostino: We appreciate your service. . .
[16:45] Callipygian Christensen: Separation of branches, how a person joins those branches, what the role of the SC *is* and what it isn't and so on
[16:46] Callipygian Christensen: I would suggest that the SC support Delia and I proceeding in discussions with the RA representatives and then bringing a draft of our suggestions back to all of you for discussion
[16:46] Soro Dagostino: Is that the consensus?
[16:47] Arria Perreault: Calli, do you still have a paper on your researches?
[16:47] Callipygian Christensen: It would assist greatly if members would participate in any discussion threads we start on the Forums regarding points that may be raised
[16:47] Lilith Ivory nods
[16:48] Arria Perreault: yes of course
[16:48] Callipygian Christensen: Arria, we are combining all the URLs and references to send to Beathan and Pat and will also send them to all members of the SC
[16:48] Arria Perreault: thank you ㋡
[16:48] Delia Lake: wow. sorry about that . I had a total system crash. not good
[16:49] Soro Dagostino: wb
[16:49] Lilith Ivory: wb Delia
[16:49] Arria Perreault: welcome back ㋡
[16:49] Callipygian Christensen: I just sent Delia a log of what she missed
[16:49] Delia Lake: ty
[16:50] Soro Dagostino: May we wrap this up by following the request made by Calli?
[16:50] Soro Dagostino: And approving same?
[16:50] Soro Dagostino: In favor?
[16:51] Lilith Ivory: if there is nothing more to be said about it ...
[16:51] Trebor Warcliffe: Good night all
[16:51] Delia Lake: good night, Trebor and thx for your contributions today
[16:51] Arria Perreault: yes
[16:51] Delia Lake: to this meeting
[16:51] Arria Perreault: good night Trebor
[16:52] Lilith Ivory: yes
[16:53] Soro Dagostino: Is it agreed to follow Calli's suggestions?
[16:53] Arria Perreault: yes
[16:53] Lilith Ivory: yes
[16:53] Soro Dagostino: I agree
[16:53] Delia Lake: yes from me. it would be very helpful
[16:54] Soro Dagostino: Calli -- I assume you approve?
[16:54] Callipygian Christensen: oh, yes i do actuallly
[16:54] Soro Dagostino: )
[16:54] Soro Dagostino: Next meeting?
[16:54] Soro Dagostino: Two weeks?
[16:55] Soro Dagostino: Or a month?
[16:55] Callipygian Christensen: When does RA meet again?
[16:55] Lilith Ivory: uhm ...
[16:56] Delia Lake: I am thinking it should be 2 wks and unless we have new petitions just have updates on the last 2 issues of today
[16:56] Delia Lake: add to that if the RA passes a law we would have to look at it
[16:56] Soro Dagostino: February 5, at 3?
[16:56] Soro Dagostino: SLT?
[16:56] Delia Lake: but have a shorter meeting as we will post inbetween
[16:57] Arria Perreault: is it possible to meet a bit earlier on sunday?
[16:57] Delia Lake: that is really late for Arria
[16:57] Lilith Ivory: next RA meeting will be at the 1/21
[16:57] Soro Dagostino: Meet at 9
[16:57] Callipygian Christensen nods to Delia - that iw why I ask - it makes sense to schedule our meeting after RA and within a tiemframe to address any legislation
[16:57] Arria Perreault: 9 is perfect for me
[16:57] Callipygian Christensen: I will be away form Jan 25th through 30th
[16:57] Lilith Ivory: 9am works for me too
[16:58] Soro Dagostino: Hearing no objections -- 9 it will be.
[16:58] Lilith Ivory: what about Aliassi?
[16:58] Delia Lake: to have 9 all the time does not work for me but I can do it sometimes
[16:58] Soro Dagostino: She was here at that time this morning.
[16:58] Delia Lake: so then 2/5 would be the earliest date for our next meeting
[16:58] Soro Dagostino: We can adjust . . .
[16:58] Soro Dagostino: Yes Delia.
[16:59] Soro Dagostino: RA may meet on Saturday
[16:59] Arria Perreault: it can be later for me (noon for ex)
[16:59] Soro Dagostino: 11?
[16:59] Soro Dagostino: Delia?
[16:59] Arria Perreault: yes
[16:59] Soro Dagostino: Is that better?
[16:59] Lilith Ivory: works also
[17:00] Callipygian Christensen: Is earlier a possibility for anyone..7 am?
[17:00] Delia Lake: yes that would be fine
[17:00] Delia Lake: 7 would work for me
[17:00] Lilith Ivory: for me too
[17:00] Arria Perreault: 7 am is ok for me too
[17:00] Lilith Ivory: everything works as long as it´s am 
[17:00] Soro Dagostino: I don't have my coffee by then -- I am as grumpy as Sudane
[17:00] Soro Dagostino:
[17:01] Lilith Ivory makes a note to bring coffee
[17:01] Arria Perreault: we could install an expresso machine here
[17:01] Callipygian Christensen: we can ignore your grumpiness until the coffee kicks in Soro
[17:01] Delia Lake: we'd have to bring a whole pot of fresh brewed?
[17:01] Soro Dagostino: What is the consensus?
[17:01] Soro Dagostino: 7
[17:01] Delia Lake: that would be best for me
[17:02] Callipygian Christensen: times from 9 am through 5 pm on Sunday really are challenging because of family committments so 7 would work ideally for me at least
[17:02] Soro Dagostino: then as I hear the talk, Feb 5 @ 7 am
[17:02] Callipygian Christensen: yes
[17:02] Lilith Ivory: ok for me
[17:02] Delia Lake: yes
[17:02] Arria Perreault: fine for me
[17:02] Soro Dagostino: that will be the time for the next meeting
[17:03] Soro Dagostino: Do I hear a call for adjournment.
[17:03] Delia Lake: I move that we adjourn
[17:03] Arria Perreault: second
[17:04] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[17:04] Delia Lake: aye
[17:04] Arria Perreault: aye
[17:04] Lilith Ivory: aye
[17:04] Soro Dagostino: aye
[17:04] Soro Dagostino: And nays?
[17:04] Soro Dagostino: LOL
[17:04] Callipygian Christensen: aye
[17:04] Delia Lake: ty Lilith and Arria for staying up so late tonight
[17:04] Arria Perreault: yw ㋡
[17:04] Soro Dagostino: Off we go . . . . Onward!
[17:04] Tanoujin Milestone: Calli, Arria, Soro, Delia, Lilith: thank you (good night)
[17:05] Lilith Ivory: ya know I´m a night owl
[17:05] Arria Perreault: have a good evening ㋡
[17:05] Callipygian Christensen: yes..and thank you Tanoujin, for attending
[17:05] Lilith Ivory: good night all
[17:05] Delia Lake: ty for attending, Tan
[17:05] Soro Dagostino: Good night all
[17:05] Arria Perreault: and good night, Lilith ㋡
[17:05] Arria Perreault: bye bye all ㋡