SC Transcript, 4/14/2012

Announcements by the Dean of the Scientific Council

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Lilith Ivory
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SC Transcript, 4/14/2012

Post by Lilith Ivory »

[8:37] Soro Dagostino: Hmmm, I had hoped some of those involved with the issues before us would be here.
[8:38] Trebor Warcliffe: Before the SC starts could each of you IM me in private your email addresses so I can configure the Mailbox systems we have purchased?
[8:38] Soro Dagostino: We have a quorum
[8:38] Callipygian Christensen: Did a notice go out of the meeting on group chat?
[8:38] Soro Dagostino: Yesterday
[8:39] Trebor Warcliffe: Today is the Orthodox Easter
[8:39] Trebor Warcliffe: So I know some are unable to attend because of that
[8:40] Callipygian Christensen: I mean now
[8:40] Callipygian Christensen: that the meeting is starting?
[8:40] Arria Perreault: there was no notice, Calli
[8:41] Lilith Ivory: I just got one :)
[8:41] Arria Perreault: I got one now ;-)
[8:41] Soro Dagostino: Just issued
[8:41] Callipygian Christensen: oh..there it is..thak you
[8:41] Soro Dagostino: Sorry, was in a deep conversation earlier, about a terrible sailing accident in my RL waters.
[8:41] Pip Torok: Hi Nolligan
[8:42] Soro Dagostino: 4 dead.
[8:42] Soro Dagostino: People I knew.
[8:42] Pip Torok: sorry to hear that Soro
[8:42] Arria Perreault: sorry to hear that
[8:42] Lilith Ivory: Hi Nolligan, hi Pip
[8:42] Lilith Ivory: Hi Shep
[8:43] Pip Torok: hi Shep!!
[8:43] Soro Dagostino: Life is sometimes far to short.
[8:43] Shep Titian: Hi all :)
[8:43] Soro Dagostino: Lets turn to the the Agenda
[8:43] Arria Perreault: Hi Shep ㋡
[8:43] Delia Lake: very sorry Soro. that's awful
[8:43] Soro Dagostino: It was published on the Forum.
[8:44] Soro Dagostino: With an amendment as requested by the RA.
[8:44] Soro Dagostino: Does everyone have that?
[8:44] Lilith Ivory nods
[8:44] Pip Torok: yes thank you
[8:44] Nolligan Nino: no
[8:44] Arria Perreault: yes
[8:44] Soro Dagostino: I wasn't able to put it in the box.
[8:46] Pip Torok: hi Daniel
[8:46] Soro Dagostino: Trying to get a copy of the two from the Forum.
[8:46] Soro Dagostino: Just a sec.
[8:46] Shep Titian: Hi Daniel
[8:46] Lilith Ivory: Hi Daniel
[8:47] Daniel Sosa: Hello sorry I am late
[8:47] Nolligan Nino: thank you - I can't access the forum easily
[8:47] Nolligan Nino: the web site is blocked
[8:47] Delia Lake: ??
[8:47] Nolligan Nino: I live in China - the URL is blocked here
[8:47] Callipygian Christensen: Nolligan - send me an Im with the name you used to register..and the website should be *readable* by anyone
[8:47] Soro Dagostino: This is the URL . .
[8:47] Delia Lake: ah. understand
[8:48] Soro Dagostino:
[8:48] Callipygian Christensen: ahh..that explains it
[8:48] Delia Lake: the Chinese gov't doesn't allow you access
[8:48] Nolligan Nino: yes
[8:48] Nolligan Nino: that is correct
[8:48] Nolligan Nino: I can get around it - but it's hard
[8:49] Soro Dagostino: Can someone put it in a notecard for him?
[8:49] Nolligan Nino: thank you
[8:49] Soro Dagostino: Lets proceed?
[8:50] Soro Dagostino: Do all here consent to recordation of our deliberations?
[8:50] Arria Perreault: I consent
[8:50] Pip Torok: i consent
[8:50] Shep Titian: Consent
[8:50] Delia Lake: yes consent
[8:50] Nolligan Nino: yes
[8:50] Lilith Ivory: consent
[8:50] Trebor Warcliffe: consent
[8:50] Soro Dagostino: Consent
[8:50] Callipygian Christensen laughs - we have more consent than we need. I consent
[8:51] Lilith Ivory: hi Dee
[8:51] Pip Torok: hi Dee
[8:51] Dee Shepherd: hello everyone
[8:51] Shep Titian: Hi Dee :)
[8:51] Arria Perreault: Hi Dee ㋡
[8:52] Trebor Warcliffe: Hello Dee
[8:52] Dee Shepherd: sorry Im late
[8:52] Soro Dagostino: Are there any additions or corrections to the Agenda, as published?
[8:52] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[8:52] Soro Dagostino: Yes Calli
[8:53] Callipygian Christensen: Item 4 posting of declarations
[8:53] Callipygian Christensen: has my name attached but i am not sure what it is I am addressing
[8:54] Soro Dagostino: You had asked for this to be placed on the agenda.
[8:54] gggSalomons Resident: hello
[8:54] gggSalomons Resident: may I join?
[8:54] Soro Dagostino: Please do.
[8:54] Arria Perreault: Isn't it the message that we intend to post to encourage people to run?
[8:54] Lilith Ivory: Hi Salomon
[8:55] gggSalomons Resident: thank you
[8:55] Pip Torok: salut gggsolomons
[8:55] Callipygian Christensen: I asked for the jia item to be on the agenda
[8:55] Callipygian Christensen: that's item 2.
[8:55] Soro Dagostino: ooops
[8:55] Callipygian Christensen: I just need to know what I am addressing in 4 so I can prepare
[8:55] Lilith Ivory smiles
[8:57] Dee Shepherd: lost my tag ya'all
[8:57] Soro Dagostino: My understanding was that it was the issue of when folk could list their names as candidates.
[8:57] Soro Dagostino: And when the SC would post them.
[8:57] Callipygian Christensen: I believe we settled that some months ago with the publishing of dates , so I think we can drop that item from the agenda
[8:58] Soro Dagostino: Is that the consensus of the SC?
[8:58] Arria Perreault: I think it was the text of the message the SC send to announce a declaration of candidacy. We intented to make a standard text, also with a sentence to encourage people to run (to avoid that people renounce to run when the amount of seats is reached)
[8:58] Arria Perreault: we should look the transcript back ...
[8:59] Soro Dagostino: Arria would you take the effort to find that?
[8:59] Arria Perreault: ok
[8:59] Callipygian Christensen: ah, ok Arria - then we can leave it on and check back if we can during the rest of the meeting
[8:59] Soro Dagostino: Any other items to be added or changed
[9:00] Arria Perreault: raises hand
[9:00] Soro Dagostino: Arria?
[9:00] Arria Perreault: do we take automatically the request of the RA or do we need a motion to add it in the agenda?
[9:01] Soro Dagostino: They have a right to ask the SC for a ruling.
[9:01] Soro Dagostino: So, I placed it on the agenda.
[9:01] Arria Perreault: thx
[9:01] Soro Dagostino: I suppose you could ask that it be deleted.
[9:02] Soro Dagostino: But, its important to the RA and the election.
[9:02] Soro Dagostino: So, without any motion to amend the agenda, lets proceed?
[9:02] Soro Dagostino: Item one.
[9:02] Delia Lake: the RA can ask for a ruling, and also it is up to the SC to keep abreast of the actions of the RA and flag for discussion by the SC anything that the RA does that might be deemed unconstitutional
[9:03] Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[9:03] Soro Dagostino: Item one. Arria is the proponent.
[9:04] Arria Perreault: yes
[9:04] Arria Perreault: there is a page about the SC in the CDS portal
[9:04] Arria Perreault: ... c-council/
[9:04] Arria Perreault: the page is not up to date: the list of members is not correct
[9:05] Arria Perreault: I volunteer to update the page
[9:05] Arria Perreault: My question is: do you see other informations to publish on this page or is it complete?
[9:05] Delia Lake: there was no page on the SC at all about 6 mos ago. I asked Mizou to copy what had been on the old portal but I did not have access to update it. so my request would be that you please do that Arria
[9:06] Callipygian Christensen: In addition, on that opic, the info on the Forum stickies could use an update - who to contact - how to register etc
[9:06] Delia Lake: agreed, Calli
[9:06] Arria Perreault: right, Calli
[9:06] Callipygian Christensen: Arria - Delia and I are currently working through drafts and reading amaterials to meet with Pat and Beathan and address updating the SC proesses - so probably leaving the rest as is for now makes sense
[9:07] Arria Perreault: I may have an access to the content of the old portal
[9:07] Callipygian Christensen: brb..I am ging to swap to my pc
[9:08] Soro Dagostino: Would it work to have Arria join that group?
[9:09] Arria Perreault: Is there enough information for unexperienced citizen so they know why they can expect from us and what they have to do to make a request? or is this information so presented that anyone can understand it?
[9:10] Soro Dagostino: Isn't that what the group is working on?
[9:12] Arria Perreault: I think we can proceed in two phases. Now I update the list of members and I add the information about the inscription to the forum. Later we can add the content you are working on in the working group.
[9:12] Soro Dagostino: Is that the consensus of the SC?
[9:12] Lilith Ivory: I´m fine with that
[9:13] Soro Dagostino: Calli?
[9:13] Soro Dagostino: Delia?
[9:13] Callipygian Christensen: I may have missed a little while relogging..what inscription to the Forum are we agreeing to?
[9:13] Delia Lake: yes. and Arria, if you don't have access to the old content, Mizou has it on dropbox so you could contact her
[9:14] Arria Perreault: [09:05] Callipygian Christensen: In addition, on that opic, the info on the Forum stickies could use an update - who to contact - how to register etc
[9:14] Soro Dagostino: Arria has agreed to help with that.
[9:14] Callipygian Christensen: ah ok..thank you :)
[9:14] Callipygian Christensen: I agree
[9:14] Soro Dagostino: Moving on
[9:15] Arria Perreault: thx
[9:15] Soro Dagostino: That will be the consensus of the SC.
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: Item 2. The Jia petition.
[9:17] Soro Dagostino: Is there any need to resolve this petition?
[9:17] Callipygian Christensen: We have to address it since it was ttabled
[9:18] Callipygian Christensen: I ave received further iformatio froma53 or SDolphin.
[9:18] Callipygian Christensen: n further
[9:18] Callipygian Christensen: grrr
[9:18] Soro Dagostino: [happy camper Calli]
[9:18] Callipygian Christensen: I have received no further iformation
[9:18] Soro Dagostino: What do you propose?
[9:19] Soro Dagostino: As the SC's course of action?
[9:19] Callipygian Christensen: jia53 did not ever pay tier, even when the opportunity to do so was there
[9:20] Delia Lake: it seems to me that we have actually 2 issues raised by this petition
[9:20] Callipygian Christensen: the estate manager confirms that a working tier box was availble and never used
[9:20] Callipygian Christensen defers to Delia
[9:21] Delia Lake: 1 is regarding the issue specified in the petition of jia herself
[9:21] Delia Lake: but the 2nd and to me in this case more far reaching is
[9:21] Delia Lake: who can petition the SC and on what basis
[9:22] Callipygian Christensen nods. I think we will address your second point in the new processes of the SC in some form
[9:22] Delia Lake: can a citizen petition the SC to resolve an issue in which the petitioner has no material interest?
[9:23] Delia Lake: or does that have to be a petition by the individual(s) involved?
[9:23] Delia Lake: if the issue is one of general concern to the citizenry it would seem to me that any citizen could petition for resolution
[9:24] Callipygian Christensen: I think it is fine for people to have advocates, but would prefer that they identify themselves as petitioner and identify their advocate, then take an active role in the process
[9:24] Arria Perreault: maybe we should resolve the issue and work on the second later. I think it's an interesting question, but it need some research and maybe a workgroup.
[9:24] Delia Lake: but if the issue is personal , ie involves the rights or abrogation of rights of a specific individual does that petition have to come from that individual?
[9:24] Arria Perreault: *first issue
[9:25] Callipygian Christensen: Delia, in the case at hand there *was* a broader outcome than the individual one for the person named, and my thinking is as Arria's..we resolve this tabled item then look at who can and when in a brodaer and neutral context
[9:25] Lilith Ivory: I agree
[9:25] Soro Dagostino: I do too.
[9:26] Dee Shepherd: raises hand
[9:26] Soro Dagostino: Any further comment from the SC?
[9:26] Soro Dagostino: Dee, your comment?
[9:26] Dee Shepherd: excuse me......................... as to whether the petition is is not valid...isnt that moot? if the underlying situation is a clear violation?
[9:28] Soro Dagostino: Any comment from the SC?
[9:28] Callipygian Christensen: I am sorry Dee, I am not sure I understand your question
[9:28] Lilith Ivory: same here I´m afraid
[9:28] Dee Shepherd: I thought you were considering the validity of the peitition itself
[9:29] Dee Shepherd: not the crux of what the pettion contended
[9:29] Callipygian Christensen: Delia is referring to third party petitions, yes..and in the broad context of 'are there times a third party can petition'..
[9:30] Dee Shepherd: ok we/ you are nt at the valisity of the pertition itself yeyt?
[9:30] Dee Shepherd: validity
[9:30] Callipygian Christensen: no - what we are resolving is the actual content of the petition
[9:30] Callipygian Christensen: it was tabled perviously
[9:30] Dee Shepherd: ok sorry
[9:31] Callipygian Christensen: Soro, may I?
[9:31] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[9:31] Lilith Ivory: Hi Aliasi :)
[9:31] Soro Dagostino: Hello Aliasal
[9:31] Aliasi Stonebender: (hello)
[9:31] Aliasi Stonebender: (wow, did the time zone math wrong again)
[9:31] Arria Perreault: Hi Aliasi ㋡
[9:31] Delia Lake: hi Aliasi :)
[9:32] Callipygian Christensen: In regard to the petition regarding jia53's status of citizenship, I propose we close the petition, and take no further action. Neither the petiioner, the named party, or the other interested party, SDolphin, can provide any evidence that citizenship requirements were met.
[9:33] Soro Dagostino: Is there a second?
[9:33] Delia Lake: yes, I second
[9:33] Soro Dagostino: Debate?
[9:33] Arria Perreault: not for me
[9:33] Lilith Ivory: not for me either
[9:34] Soro Dagostino: REady for the question?
[9:34] Soro Dagostino: All in favor say aye
[9:34] Arria Perreault: aye
[9:34] Callipygian Christensen: aye
[9:34] Lilith Ivory: aye
[9:34] Delia Lake: aye
[9:34] Soro Dagostino: aye
[9:35] Soro Dagostino: Aliasi?
[9:35] Soro Dagostino: Any nays?
[9:36] Soro Dagostino: Motion carries
[9:36] Dee Shepherd: ok summerize foe me please
[9:36] Callipygian Christensen: In addition, for the record, I would suggest that we address petioning, third party petitioning and other issues of petitions as part of our review and reform of SC procedures
[9:36] Soro Dagostino: The matter is rejected.
[9:36] Dee Shepherd: okay
[9:36] Delia Lake: agreed, Calli
[9:36] Arria Perreault: I agree, Calli
[9:37] Lilith Ivory: I agree
[9:37] Soro Dagostino: Asking all -- is that the consensus
[9:37] Soro Dagostino: Yes, from me.
[9:37] Soro Dagostino: Aliasi?
[9:37] Dee Shepherd: excuse pease rl calls
[9:38] Callipygian Christensen: thanks for attending Dee
[9:38] Soro Dagostino: That will be the consensus action of the SC.
[9:38] Soro Dagostino: Thank you Dee.
[9:38] Soro Dagostino: Item 3. election of the Dean.
[9:39] Soro Dagostino: I nominate Calli.
[9:39] Delia Lake: I second Calli's nomination
[9:39] Soro Dagostino: Any other nominations?
[9:40] Arria Perreault: (I support this nomination: I just want to hear Calli's opinion)
[9:40] Soro Dagostino: Ready for a vote of acclamation?
[9:40] Callipygian Christensen: oh..bad momen there to go let the dogs in
[9:40] Aliasi Stonebender: (I'm ready!)
[9:40] Callipygian Christensen: I will stand, yes
[9:41] Arria Perreault: great ㋡
[9:41] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:41] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[9:41] Arria Perreault: aye
[9:41] Delia Lake: aye
[9:41] Lilith Ivory: aye
[9:41] Soro Dagostino: aye
[9:41] Aliasi Stonebender: aye
[9:42] Soro Dagostino: Congratulations Calli
[9:42] Callipygian Christensen abstains
[9:42] Delia Lake: congratulations, Calli!
[9:42] Callipygian Christensen: thank you everyone
[9:42] Arria Perreault: Congratulations, Calli. Thank you Soro, for being Dean.
[9:42] Lilith Ivory: gongrats Calli!
[9:42] Trebor Warcliffe applauds
[9:43] Pip Torok congratulates Calli
[9:43] Delia Lake: and thank you for your service as SC Dean, Soro
[9:43] Callipygian Christensen: thank you for your service Soro - although it isn't done yet lol
[9:43] Lilith Ivory: yes thank you Soro :)
[9:43] Soro Dagostino: Item 4.
[9:43] Soro Dagostino: Then it is.
[9:43] Soro Dagostino: WOOOOOT!!!!
[9:44] Arria Perreault: I have found the mention in the forum:
[9:44] Lilith Ivory: what about item 5?
[9:44] Arria Perreault: at 8:55
[9:45] Arria Perreault: [8:55] Callipygian Christensen: Soro, I have this notecard started already..i can make it into a template of dates and announcements and cirulate
[8:55] Soro Dagostino: kk
[8:55] Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[8:55] Arria Perreault: thank you Calli ㋡
[8:55] Callipygian Christensen: I will include an encouragement Arria
[9:45] Arria Perreault: (encouragement to run)
[9:45] Callipygian Christensen nods
[9:46] Callipygian Christensen: I posted the dates in a form that I think was clear, but didnt do the template of the Deans announcements
[9:46] Soro Dagostino: What is the action required from the SC?
[9:46] Callipygian Christensen: So will now take care of that, with apologies for the delay
[9:46] Arria Perreault: no problem, Calli
[9:47] Callipygian Christensen: also as part of that, we said we would go through and set the dates into the future
[9:47] Callipygian Christensen: so perhaps we can have someone volunteer to do that now
[9:47] Callipygian Christensen: not 'this moment' now, but as a task for us to accept at the next meeting
[9:48] Soro Dagostino: Is that a motion to table this issue?
[9:49] Callipygian Christensen: i dont think it needs a motion - its administrative..ill get the templates done and we need a volunteer to go through and get the dates set for 18th, 19th, 20th RA
[9:49] Arria Perreault: I can help for the dates. They are already in the forums, but they have to be updated with latest adaptations
[9:50] Arria Perreault: we could publish them in the CDS portal too
[9:50] Delia Lake: I think that's a good idea, Arria
[9:50] Callipygian Christensen nods..I think once they are accepted here they can be published i as many places as possible
[9:51] Soro Dagostino: So, what is being tabled is the acceptance of the dates?
[9:52] Callipygian Christensen: or, we don't have any dates yet - the ones for the 17th were accepted and posted - we are assigning work I think
[9:52] Soro Dagostino: To be considered at the next meeting of the SC?
[9:53] Soro Dagostino: Posted today, as an agenda item for the next meeting?
[9:53] Callipygian Christensen: Arria, cn you have them for next meeting?
[9:53] Arria Perreault: yes, I will find them
[9:53] Soro Dagostino: Is that agreed?
[9:54] Callipygian Christensen nods
[9:54] Lilith Ivory nods also
[9:54] Soro Dagostino: I agree.
[9:54] Soro Dagostino: Delia?
[9:54] Arria Perreault: I agree
[9:55] Delia Lake: yes, agreed
[9:56] Soro Dagostino: Ok, that is the action of the SC.
[9:56] Soro Dagostino: Now to Item 4, the request of the RA regarding ownership and voting.
[9:58] Soro Dagostino: Is there a proponent from the RA?
[9:58] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[9:58] Shep Titian: I'm here but it was Pat's request
[9:58] Soro Dagostino: yes Calli
[9:58] Callipygian Christensen: Regretably, I beieve Aliasi must recuse herself from this agenda item
[9:59] Soro Dagostino: She is a subject of the rule.
[9:59] Aliasi Stonebender: Heh. well, maybe not right now

[9:59] Aliasi Stonebender: If you mean group setting on land, I fixed that the moment I got the notecard.
[10:00] Soro Dagostino: That's acceptable.
[10:00] Aliasi Stonebender: I've had my land under the group since the days you had to to get private estate land, it's just something I never thought about. was easy enough to fix.
[10:00] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes but unfortunatly it was after the census was taken by myself and Sudane.
[10:00] Callipygian Christensen: This relates towhether or not those not in compliance at the time of the census can be given leave to vote - so I think reclusion is still neccessary :/
[10:00] Delia Lake: hmmm
[10:00] Aliasi Stonebender: point taken, and I'll do that.
[10:01] Trebor Warcliffe: I agree as an Executive
[10:01] Delia Lake: some questions here if I may
[10:01] Soro Dagostino: Delia
[10:01] Delia Lake: this new law was passed when?
[10:01] Delia Lake: by the RA that is
[10:02] Shep Titian: More than a month ago
[10:02] Delia Lake: and please Shep and Trebor your information is relevant to my questions
[10:02] Delia Lake: Trebor, when did the notecards go out to people?
[10:02] Trebor Warcliffe: let me check the forums and see if i can give you an exact date
[10:02] Shep Titian: It was when all the dates pertaining to the election were decided
[10:03] Trebor Warcliffe: Sudane handled the notecards so I dont know BUT other means of communication were also used.
[10:03] Shep Titian: Pat sent out a notification
[10:04] Trebor Warcliffe: Forum postings were made numerous times
[10:04] Delia Lake: do you know was it before the first date that current tier payment could be made?
[10:04] Trebor Warcliffe: yes
[10:04] Shep Titian: Well before
[10:05] Delia Lake: i am thinking about a hypothetical citizen who might have not been able to log in since last tier payment
[10:05] Callipygian Christensen: Delia, Idont believe the issue here is tier payment
[10:05] Delia Lake: no not tier payment
[10:05] Callipygian Christensen: it is individual ownership of land
[10:05] Shep Titian: No its group title
[10:05] Lilith Ivory: Imo it´s about a lack of information
[10:05] Delia Lake: but if someone logged in on the first day that current payment could be made and not since would that citizen have gotten the notice/notecard?
[10:06] Trebor Warcliffe: If they read the forums yes
[10:06] Soro Dagostino: That is not a constitutional requirement.
[10:06] Lilith Ivory: our citizens are not obliged to read the forum
[10:06] Trebor Warcliffe: or if they have their settings of Group Notices sent to their email when they're offline, yes
[10:06] Callipygian Christensen: Hippo boxes make that an even longer length of time Delia, since they can be payed in advance
[10:07] Trebor Warcliffe: Thats correct Lil BUT we can't be expected to spoonfeed them information
[10:07] Shep Titian: It has been under commission with inworld meetings ... public
[10:07] Soro Dagostino: When you take their rights away?
[10:07] Trebor Warcliffe: All available resources were used within means to get the information out to the citizens
[10:08] Trebor Warcliffe: Two censuses are performed
[10:08] Delia Lake: so do we know by information available that all citizens who had group land like Aliasi have logged in to pay tier and therefore gotten notices?
[10:08] Trebor Warcliffe: One of the Hippo boxes that shows us who is current on their tier. A citizen must have at least (1) one parcel current on tier in order to be eligible to vote or stand for election.
[10:08] Lilith Ivory: did the exec try to contact the citizens who still have set thier land to group?
[10:09] Delia Lake: we just had an instance this morning of a person here who has no access to the forum on account of rl government sanctions
[10:09] Trebor Warcliffe: I believe Sudane has reached out to them.
[10:09] Trebor Warcliffe: But I cant state that as a fact.
[10:10] Callipygian Christensen: Trebor, how far in advance can a tier box be paid?
[10:10] Trebor Warcliffe: up to 3 months
[10:10] Shep Titian: Forgive me but this is'nt about tier
[10:10] Soro Dagostino: Now
[10:10] Callipygian Christensen nods - so I think attaching 'ability to know' to tier payment is not an option
[10:11] Delia Lake: are their any citizens who are up to date on tier having paid in advance but have not logged in since that law was passed by the RA?
[10:11] Soro Dagostino: It is a change from SL permissions.
[10:11] You decline CORRECT dates re: 17th RA election from A group member named Callipygian Christensen.
[10:11] Trebor Warcliffe: True Shep this particular issue is the "Group" titled lands need to be titled to individuals before the census was taken on NoonSLT April 13th, 2012.
[10:11] Delia Lake: if there are, that/those citizens might not have gotten the notice
[10:11] You decline CORRECT dates re: 17th RA election from A group member named Callipygian Christensen.
[10:11] You decline Official Citizen List April 13, 2012 Noon SLT from A group member named Trebor Warcliffe.
[10:11] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[10:11] Soro Dagostino: Calli
[10:11] Shep Titian: So how long does the SC suggest we wait when implementing new law .. to be sure each person has read and understood it?
[10:12] Delia Lake: this might be a moot point if there are no citizens in that category
[10:12] Callipygian Christensen: Citizens are aware that elections occur, and that there are requirments to be eligible voters
[10:12] Lilith Ivory: Pats note on 4/11 was quite clear I think
[10:12] Trebor Warcliffe: Ok here is the parties who are directly affected by this ruling.
[10:12] Soro Dagostino: Do we have a motion?
[10:13] Trebor Warcliffe: These are citizens who are in compliance EXCEPT that they own no parcel in their own name
[10:13] Callipygian Christensen: citizens have a responsibility to be aware of legislation and should choose some way to *get* that information if they are not frequently inworld
[10:13] Trebor Warcliffe: as of Noon on the 13th.
[10:13] Callipygian Christensen: hello? I asked for the floor
[10:13] Trebor Warcliffe: I apologize I was doing reseacrch
[10:13] Soro Dagostino: Yes Calli
[10:13] Trebor Warcliffe: my bad i didnt see it
[10:14] Callipygian Christensen: I don't believe when they last logged in, whether they read thier notecards or any other issue of when they choose to review what is going on here is relevant
[10:15] Arria Perreault: the idea of the law is that each citizen owns a parcel. We have just to make sure that these owned group parcels make only ONE person citizen. rest is administrative matter
[10:15] Callipygian Christensen: I believe waht is relevant is 'Did the executive/RA/estate manager use all channels avilaable to make this requirement..*legislated* requirement, known
[10:15] Callipygian Christensen: done for now
[10:15] Daniel Sosa raises hand
[10:16] Arria Perreault: (sorry I had to ask for the floor)
[10:17] Soro Dagostino: Ok, all, RL calls.
[10:17] Soro Dagostino: Welcome Calli as Dean.
[10:17] Soro Dagostino: See you next time.
[10:17] Shep Titian: Bye Soro
[10:17] Lilith Ivory: bye Soro :)
[10:17] Shep Titian: and thank you
[10:17] Callipygian Christensen: goodbye Soro
[10:17] Arria Perreault: Bye bye Soro ㋡
[10:17] Callipygian Christensen: ok..i the interests of time and clarity
[10:18] Trebor Warcliffe: Soro is still on the SC correct he just stepped down as Dean?
[10:18] Delia Lake: correct, Trebor
[10:19] Callipygian Christensen: I have stated what I believe to be the issue and would ask each SC member to breifly speak their thougts on the matter ' what is the issue and what is your general thought on whether those not comliant should vote
[10:19] Callipygian Christensen: ARRIA FIRST..YOU WERE IN LINE i BELIEVE
[10:19] Callipygian Christensen: oops
[10:19] Arria Perreault: ok
[10:19] Callipygian Christensen: didn't mean to shout :)
[10:20] Arria Perreault: my opinion is that we have to look the idea of the law and not the way is it administrative implemented
[10:20] Arria Perreault: the idea of the law is that each citizen owns a parcel. We have just to make sure that these owned group parcels make only ONE person citizen.
[10:20] Callipygian Christensen: "I'll ask citizens present to hold their thoughts and questions until the SC members have spoken)
[10:20] Arria Perreault: if we have a way to control it, we could accept that the citizen that did not yet turned the ownership can vote
[10:21] Arria Perreault: the executive has to make sure that this issue doesnt appear anymore in the future
[10:21] Arria Perreault: done
[10:21] Callipygian Christensen: Lilith?
[10:22] Lilith Ivory: as the hippo list makes sure there is only one citizen per parcel I´d be tempted to allow citizens which have not taken back their parcel from group to vote
[10:22] Lilith Ivory looks at this sentence and wonders if it´s understandable
[10:23] Arria Perreault: (I do and it answers my question :))
[10:24] Lilith Ivory: first the exec wanted to use only the hippo list and imo Pat only insisted in using both lists to make the procedure more save
[10:24] Lilith Ivory: not to keep citizens away from voting
[10:24] Lilith Ivory: but I agree there needs to be a lot more information about that in future
[10:25] Callipygian Christensen: Which should be addressed by updating the landscanner scripts I think..or at least that is my understading from pervious discussions
[10:25] Callipygian Christensen: are you done Lilith?
[10:25] Lilith Ivory: I´m done
[10:25] Callipygian Christensen: Delia?
[10:27] Delia Lake: i agree that citizens do have the responsibility to keep up to date on relevant rules and legislation, and at the same time am hesitant to disenfranchise someone who could have legitimately missed the notices believing that they were up to date
[10:27] Delia Lake: ie tier paid
[10:29] Daniel Sosa: Excuse me I must make my departure
[10:29] Callipygian Christensen: Delia..anything further?
[10:29] Callipygian Christensen: thank you for attending Daniel
[10:29] Shep Titian: Bye Daniel
[10:29] Pip Torok: bye daniel
[10:30] Callipygian Christensen: Delia?
[10:30] Arria Perreault: bye Daniel
[10:30] Trebor Warcliffe raises hand
[10:32] Delia Lake: nothing further
[10:32] Aliasi Stonebender: (since I'm recusing myself on this issue anyway, beg pardon - have to run. Although for the record, I'll state nobody has ever claimed citizenship via my landgroup but me in any case.)
[10:32] Callipygian Christensen: Having heard each of the SC peak their thoughts, i ivite quetions or coments form citizens attendingHaving heard the SC members, I invite citize to provide comment or ask questios - with reasonable brevity... and Aliasi, especially, if you wish to comment as a citizen involved, please do so
[10:33] Pip Torok raises hand
[10:33] Callipygian Christensen: well we'll take that as her comment :)
[10:33] Callipygian Christensen: Trebor first?
[10:33] Trebor Warcliffe: Delia brings up a good point. The changing of land ownership from "Group" to "individual" is a new element for this upcoming election.
[10:33] Trebor Warcliffe: The issue of tier being up to date has always been a requirement and is not why we are here.
[10:34] Trebor Warcliffe: I can say for a fact
[10:34] Trebor Warcliffe: All 10 citizens
[10:34] Trebor Warcliffe: Who are affected have thier tier paid as of the time the census was taken
[10:34] Delia Lake: that is quite a few citizens
[10:34] Trebor Warcliffe: They were NOT in violation of tier, just the "ownership" issue
[10:34] Pip Torok: one from AMUA .. Ria Boucher
[10:34] Callipygian Christensen: We know tht form the actual census list Trebor *nod*
[10:35] Callipygian Christensen: Do you have some further information you want the SC to take under consideration?
[10:36] Trebor Warcliffe: So on that basis being that the issue of ownership is unique to this election I would allow the 10 in question the right to vote in the upcoming election with the encouragement that they need to transfer their ownership to themselves and nto to group. DONE
[10:36] Callipygian Christensen: thank you. Pip?
[10:37] Pip Torok: yes .. to Trebor really .. the 10 should be augmented by one more .. Ria Boucher .. she is a longstanding memer and owns the plot in AM north of the Mehana
[10:37] Trebor Warcliffe: Delinquent as of teh date of the census
[10:38] Pip Torok: She deed her plot to AMUS a long time ago but does not form part of the 10 DONE
[10:38] Trebor Warcliffe: Thats why she wasnt included
[10:38] Callipygian Christensen: Pip, Id suggest taking that up with Trebor outside of this session - we can only address the issue, not individual avatars
[10:38] Pip Torok: ok
[10:38] Shep Titian: Raises hand
[10:38] Callipygian Christensen: Any further questions or comments from citizens present?
[10:38] Callipygian Christensen: Shep?
[10:39] Shep Titian: Could we add a request that citizens given this leeway change to named ownership as part of being allowed to vote
[10:40] Shep Titian: To prevent it cropping up again
[10:40] Callipygian Christensen: I believe that could be included in the wording of a motion
[10:40] Shep Titian: Good done
[10:40] Callipygian Christensen: ANy other citizens?
[10:41] Callipygian Christensen: Then I invite a motion form an SC member
[10:42] Callipygian Christensen: I hope someone is typing madly :)
[10:42] Delia Lake: lol, i'm not. rl conference call just started for me
[10:44] Arria Perreault: Motion: the list of voters for the 16th RA election is based on the Hippo list. Poeple who are not in conformity today a requested to turn ownership until polls open. (with corrections please)
[10:44] Callipygian Christensen: thank you Arria..let me edit a little and you can check that content is correct
[10:44] Arria Perreault: thank you ㋡
[10:44] Trebor Warcliffe: Hippo List and Land Scanner Census Report
[10:45] Callipygian Christensen: that all voters in compliance with the Hippo list be allowed to vote in the election for the 17th RA, as long as they change thier land to individual ownership before the opening of the polls.
[10:45] Callipygian Christensen: is that your meaning Arria?
[10:46] Arria Perreault: yes
[10:46] Trebor Warcliffe raises hand
[10:46] Shep Titian: Perfect :)
[10:46] Callipygian Christensen: then I believe the mtion on the floor is this:
[10:46] Trebor Warcliffe: Shouldnt the wording be specific to the situation?
[10:47] Shep Titian: It is Trebor?
[10:47] Callipygian Christensen: otion to allow all citicens identified on the Citizen List as complaint in tier payments to vote in the election for the 17th RA, as long as they have complied with changing land ownership from group to individual before the polls open.
[10:47] Arria Perreault: we elect the 16th RA?
[10:47] Trebor Warcliffe: better Calli yes
[10:48] Callipygian Christensen: I think this is the 17th RA is it not?
[10:48] Trebor Warcliffe: compliant in tier payment but still had group ownership on parcels
[10:48] Shep Titian: It will be
[10:48] Trebor Warcliffe: woudl be even better wording IMO
[10:48] Callipygian Christensen: Trebor..hush please..this is Arria's motion :)
[10:48] Arria Perreault: right, 17th
[10:48] Shep Titian: Thats the same thing Trebor
[10:49] Callipygian Christensen: the wordig of that motion correct?
[10:50] Arria Perreault: yes
[10:50] Callipygian Christensen: may I have a second?
[10:50] Lilith Ivory: I second
[10:50] Callipygian Christensen: Debate? (and in future the motion will precede the discussion :)
[10:50] Arria Perreault: ㋡ not anymore for me
[10:51] Lilith Ivory: not for me also
[10:51] Delia Lake: nothing more from me
[10:51] Callipygian Christensen: Then I call the question - all in favour?
[10:51] Delia Lake: aye
[10:51] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:51] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:51] Callipygian Christensen: nay
[10:51] Callipygian Christensen: motion carries
[10:52] Callipygian Christensen: I will notify the leader of the RA of this decision
[10:52] Lilith Ivory: may I add something?
[10:53] Callipygian Christensen: Certainly Lilith
[10:53] Lilith Ivory smiles
[10:53] Lilith Ivory: I think the chancellor should inform the people on this list personally about our decision to make sure they get it this time
[10:53] Arria Perreault: I agree with Lilith
[10:53] Trebor Warcliffe: Through which way?
[10:54] Arria Perreault: IM
[10:54] Trebor Warcliffe: We dont have emails for all these people.
[10:54] Shep Titian: Send them a note Trebor
[10:54] Trebor Warcliffe: And if they dont come inworld?
[10:54] Trebor Warcliffe: I will send each of them an IM if that is what the SC deems to be sufficient.
[10:55] Callipygian Christensen: I believe Lilith's comment and this whole issue speaks to a need to identify 'what is reasonable and acceptable notification'
[10:55] Trebor Warcliffe: ty Calli
[10:55] Arria Perreault: agree
[10:55] Lilith Ivory nods
[10:55] Callipygian Christensen: I believe that is the responsibility of the RA and suggest it be addressed by them.
[10:55] Trebor Warcliffe: Is that ok with the SC? An IM from me to each of them will suffice as sufficient notice to the 10 affectted parties?
[10:56] Callipygian Christensen: I would suggest a notecard may be lost, just as IMs can be capped, but you will have a transaction record of having sent it
[10:56] Lilith Ivory: I agree
[10:56] Arria Perreault: I agree
[10:57] Trebor Warcliffe: With the wording that the land in question must be in thier name by opening of the polls?
[10:57] Trebor Warcliffe: Notecard is fine by me.
[10:57] Callipygian Christensen: I would be specific 'opening of polls at X time on Y date'
[10:57] Lilith Ivory: in their name instead of deeded to a group
[10:58] Trebor Warcliffe: Polls open at Noon SLT saturday May 12, 2012 according to our sign here
[10:58] Trebor Warcliffe: That is correct right?
[10:58] Callipygian Christensen: yes it is
[10:58] Trebor Warcliffe: Good it will be done before I go to sleep tonight
[10:59] Trebor Warcliffe: Have to finish RL schoolwork now
[10:59] Arria Perreault: thank you ㋡
[10:59] Trebor Warcliffe: Take care everyone
[10:59] Arria Perreault: bye Trebor
[10:59] Callipygian Christensen: thankyo Trebor
[10:59] Callipygian Christensen: with no further agenda items, Iwould like to schedule our next meeting
[10:59] Pip Torok: bye Trebor
[10:59] Shep Titian accepted your inventory offer.
[11:00] Callipygian Christensen: I would suggest May 6 - the day after challenges to theCitizen Lstmust be filed
[11:00] Callipygian Christensen: just in case :)
[11:00] Callipygian Christensen: woud that work for peope?
[11:00] Arria Perreault: fine for me
[11:00] Lilith Ivory: fine for me too
[11:01] Callipygian Christensen: would 8 AM on the 6th may work ?
[11:01] Delia Lake: I will be unavailable that whole weekend as I'm teaching a rl workshop then but it does make sense for the reason you state to hold it that day Calli
[11:01] Lilith Ivory: works for me
[11:01] Callipygian Christensen: Delia - hopefully anything major will beknown ahead of time for you to send wirtten comments
[11:01] Delia Lake: yes
[11:02] Callipygian Christensen: then 8 AM, May 6th
[11:02] Delia Lake: i will be able to check email early that morning
[11:02] Callipygian Christensen: may I have a motion to adjourn?
[11:02] Delia Lake: I move we adjourn
[11:02] Lilith Ivory: I move to adjourn
[11:02] Callipygian Christensen: second?
[11:02] Lilith Ivory: I second
[11:02] Callipygian Christensen: Lilith can be second
[11:02] Callipygian Christensen: all in favour? :)
[11:02] Lilith Ivory: aye
[11:02] Delia Lake: aye
[11:02] Callipygian Christensen: aye

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