Proposed Microplot Termination Bill

Proposals for legislation and discussions of these

Moderator: SC Moderators

User avatar
Patroklus Murakami
Forum Wizard
Forum Wizard
Posts: 1929
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:54 pm

Post by Patroklus Murakami »

Sudane, I think you've raised a number of issues which are not really the subject at hand here.

I'm not Ulrika, no one's creating a shitstorm and no ones' accusing anyone of using alts to rig an election.

I'm not levelling accusations at Pel, I'm quoting his words!

In the past week I've taken the trouble to contact all of the microplot owners. They're a diverse group of people who were attracted to Neufreistadt for a number of reasons. No one is suggesting they should lose their right to citizenship, the question is whether the microplots should continue.

It's clear that the microplots are open to abuse. That's why they should go. They were a bad idea to begin with for that reason. I accept and understand that they were proposed and passed for honourable reasons, but the path to hell is paved with good intentions! Anyone who wants to 'buy' an election has a cheap source of votes in the microplots. For a measly few dollars and peanuts per month you can bus in a group of friends to get citizenship and keep you in power. This may not be what happened in the last election but are the supporters of the microplots seriously trying to tell us that getting fifteen votes on side (there are fifteen microplots in total, aren't there?) wouldn't swing an election?

Claude, no one is kidding themselves that we can eradicate the possiblilty of voter fraud by making the minimum land holding requirement 128m2 but it will certainly make it more difficult. And surely that's the best we can hope for? The question of how 'active' citizens are is a red herring by the way. There are many reasons why SL residents might be attracted to NFS, they don't all have to be involved in these debates, hell, they don't even have to vote! The question is 'how much does it cost to rig the vote?' With the microplots the answer is 'not very much'.

User avatar
Moon Adamant
I need a hobby
I need a hobby
Posts: 913
Joined: Sun May 28, 2006 1:26 pm

Post by Moon Adamant »

Sorry, everyone... :)

What about considering the main things on this bill?

1. something which isn't working quite as planned is suspended
2. the citizens' acquired rights are preserved nevertheless (v. v. important!)

Everyone who thinks the microplots should stay:

Consider also that other mechanisms for land possession are being proposed, that are actually wider in scope.

Claude Desmoulins
I need a hobby
I need a hobby
Posts: 730
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 9:28 am

Post by Claude Desmoulins »

But Jon, you delude yourself if you believe this bill "closes the door". It nudges it slightly, so that the next person need only find new citizens with slightly deeper pockets. Is that really doing much to 'solve' the problem?

Jon Seattle
I need a hobby
I need a hobby
Posts: 648
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 6:18 am

Post by Jon Seattle »

Claude, at least this makes it a little more difficult and, given the context, may signal that using small plots of land for voter fraud (in the future) is not acceptable. I do agree that we need more than this, but this is a first step.

Jon Seattle
I need a hobby
I need a hobby
Posts: 648
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 6:18 am

Post by Jon Seattle »

Oh, and I wanted to add one thing. I do feel that Pel made a mistake in this case, but in general I like him quite a bit. He is often someone who brings in much needed innovation and fresh thinking, something that all of Neufreistadt very much needs. I also respect his approach, which mixes good business sense with proposals which actually do move us further along.

User avatar
Ashcroft Burnham
Forum Wizard
Forum Wizard
Posts: 1093
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:21 pm

Post by Ashcroft Burnham »

[quote="Moon Adamant":1mukgh3i]2. the citizens' acquired rights are preserved nevertheless (v. v. important!)[/quote:1mukgh3i]

Yes, I quite agree. Whether we get rid of microplots for future citizens or not, nobody who has one now should be forced to upgrade or leave any time soon.

Ashcroft Burnham

Where reason fails, all hope is lost.
User avatar
Fernando Book
Forum Admin
Forum Admin
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:39 pm

Post by Fernando Book »

Just to add a bit more confussion:

couldnt' be useful from now on to make a distinction between residents and citizens, with different rights and different duties?

I'm not thinking only about this trhead, but also about the [url=http://forums.neufreistadt.info/viewtop ... 2:3f4zxyat]Group Land Ownership[/url:3f4zxyat] bill, and the questions that would arise when the franchulates begin to work.

User avatar
Aliasi Stonebender
I need a hobby
I need a hobby
Posts: 586
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 12:58 pm

Post by Aliasi Stonebender »

One thing about land. SL land is not RL land. One reason we tied citizenship to land is [b:t4h53nag]NO[/b:t4h53nag] other standard will work, in the long run. If we don't pay the bill, the sim goes "poof" into the ether. A 'plot' of land is merely signifying you have the right to use X% of server resources, prettied up through metaphor. Thus, I am highly against any attempt to change the meaning of citizenship from land; a 'poll tax' may theoretically work in terms of financial compensation but does little to take into account the extra use of the sim another citizen brings on.

Now, one may argue that "our cost of entry is too low". In such a case, we need not necessarily eliminate microplots, but mandate that all plots below whatever 'magic number' makes the majority of the RA comfortable are charged as if they were that magic number. This allows us to split off microplots as needed for groups, partners, and so on but mandating a certain minimum level of committment from all.

User avatar
Patroklus Murakami
Forum Wizard
Forum Wizard
Posts: 1929
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:54 pm

Post by Patroklus Murakami »

[quote="Aliasi Stonebender":dtjsl04m]One thing about land. SL land is not RL land. One reason we tied citizenship to land is [b:dtjsl04m]NO[/b:dtjsl04m] other standard will work, in the long run. If we don't pay the bill, the sim goes "poof" into the ether. A 'plot' of land is merely signifying you have the right to use X% of server resources, prettied up through metaphor. Thus, I am highly against any attempt to change the meaning of citizenship from land; a 'poll tax' may theoretically work in terms of financial compensation but does little to take into account the extra use of the sim another citizen brings on.[/quote:dtjsl04m]
I agree wholeheartedly. The proposal for a poll tax (while it could be designed to bring in the same amount of money) is tinkering with the system without a clear rationale for the benefits such a change might bring. It also recalls the 'poll tax riots' for those of us in the UK and the most hated tax of the post-war period here, not a good look! The current system is readily understood and we shouldn't ignore the advantages of 'keeping it simple'!

[quote:dtjsl04m]Now, one may argue that "our cost of entry is too low". In such a case, we need not necessarily eliminate microplots, but mandate that all plots below whatever 'magic number' makes the majority of the RA comfortable are charged as if they were that magic number. This allows us to split off microplots as needed for groups, partners, and so on but mandating a certain minimum level of committment from all.[/quote:dtjsl04m]
That's an interesting variation on the theme. What do you think though to the argument that having a residence or business in Neufreistadt/CDS is a fundamental aspect of citizenship? In other words, that there should be no 'homeless' citizens? When I decided to join the NFS I could have taken a microplot (as I really like where I have my first home and don't want to give it up) but I decided that it was important (for me) to have a home here and to demonstrate that I really had a stake in this community. I recognise that others may not want to make that choice so cheap land on smaller plots (e.g. 128m2) should be made available.

We could debate what the 'magic number' should be. Any advance on 128?

User avatar
Aliasi Stonebender
I need a hobby
I need a hobby
Posts: 586
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 12:58 pm

Post by Aliasi Stonebender »

[quote="Patroklus Murakami":y7e5qkra][
That's an interesting variation on the theme. What do you think though to the argument that having a residence or business in Neufreistadt/CDS is a fundamental aspect of citizenship? In other words, that there should be no 'homeless' citizens? When I decided to join the NFS I could have taken a microplot (as I really like where I have my first home and don't want to give it up) but I decided that it was important (for me) to have a home here and to demonstrate that I really had a stake in this community. I recognise that others may not want to make that choice so cheap land on smaller plots (e.g. 128m2) should be made available.

We could debate what the 'magic number' should be. Any advance on 128?[/quote:y7e5qkra]

It's a solid argument, and I think the experience of Neualtenburg v.1 does give it some credit - the city groups being filled with a lot of inactive 'citizens' in the end. But on the other hand, a 'home' in a place like SL is something of a vanity. I like one because I am, deep down, a bit of a control freak in my personal life. Having a little spot where I run it all is of great personal importance to me, then, even though I hardly use my Neufreistadt house as a house - I have an entire sim for that, but it's one I share with friends - my NFS plot is the only land I have that's wholly mine, now that I've no mainland parcels.

Many people do not require it, any more than most people today have a 'homepage' in the style that was popular in the mid to late 90s; they might use MySpace or a Live Journal for a similar function, but they don't have their own little slice of Web.

As we expand and we can offer more 'community' functions, I expect the latter case to become more common - small-time creators who'd like to be able to use the (we hope!) highly-trafficed NFS citizen's shop on the plaza, or they might appreciate being able to hold an event in the biergarden, or a discussion in the church - things they could do anywhere, true, but not with the democratic method we have here.

Then we have those who DO want a home - but they share it with another. Or they wish to run a business, or they'd like to try the job of Public Information Officer. (Nightwind's been crashing at my place, at my suggestion. :) )

So I think solid arguments could be made either way.

User avatar
Tad Peckham
Casual contributor
Casual contributor
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:47 am

Post by Tad Peckham »

it is my understanding that the microplot termination bill passed while i was on vacation, but i still wanted to express my disapointment over this development. microplots have a few key advantages in my opionion: first, personally speaking, because microplots are affordable, i was able to quickly become a citizen of a region that was of interest to me. microplots have the same appeal for many people wanting to become a resident, but do not wish to make a large financial commitment. if we want all citizens to be land owners, how do we propose perpective citizens become acutal citizens without affordable housing options? second, microplots add authenticity to the theme of the town. without microplots, how is the town going to be redeveloped while maintaining an authentic bavarian villiage feel? lastly, microplots can, if managed properly, help drive our economy. what better way to start out a virtual business than through an affordable venue? i think by getting rid of microplots, neufreistadt is terminating a potentially valuable asset.

User avatar
Sudane Erato
Forum Wizard
Forum Wizard
Posts: 1197
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 8:44 am
Contact:

Post by Sudane Erato »

Tad, the microplot bill was not passed yet, but I think was tabled. The related "Group Ownership Bill" was passed.

Sudane....

User avatar
Tad Peckham
Casual contributor
Casual contributor
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:47 am

Post by Tad Peckham »

thanks sudane. i'm sorry my wires were crossed, but glad nonetheless that the bill has tabled for now.

Tad

Ranma Tardis

Post by Ranma Tardis »

[quote="Sudane Erato":2q27lr93]Tad, the microplot bill was not passed yet, but I think was tabled. The related "Group Ownership Bill" was passed.

Sudane....[/quote:2q27lr93]

Well it would seem that I am in opposition to the positions of both factions and all 5 members of the RA on almost everything. I had hoped they would do the right thing for once but no. They passed a Bill I am against instead.
No people, making compromises does not mean total surrender of ones principles.
We do not seem to have common ground. The Acts that are coming up are not in my best interests and will not support them.

User avatar
Pelanor Eldrich
Veteran debater
Veteran debater
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 10:07 am

Am I smoking something?

Post by Pelanor Eldrich »

Am I smoking something? I thought we passed the microplot termination bill as 5-10 (it's on the wiki). Can anyone confirm that?
Thanks!

A couple of quick notes here. Ranma was part of the DPU faction during the last election. I take that to assume that she voted DPU and thus I am charged with representing her in the RA. I have heard nothing from the other unseated DPU faction members regarding definition of citizenship. If I hear nothing else from my constituency, I will vote against any bill this term that changes the definition of citizenship.

A second point. We have been voting unanimously (in lock step), which is probably unhealthy. Some votes should be "conscience votes" and not subject to faction (party) discipline. Those cases traditionally are up to the faction leaders to decide.

A third point is that the unanimous judiciary vote was a complex series of compromises, drafts, changes and pure shuttle diplomacy. We're still rewriting/compromising to now get it past the SC. A unianimous vote doesn't mean we share the same vision. If democracy were only that easy. :)

Last edited by Pelanor Eldrich on Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pelanor Eldrich
Principal - Eldrich Financial
Post Reply

Return to “Legislative Discussion”