Shep (shep.titian): Ok .. dear citizens
Shep (shep.titian): Anna apologizes and asks me to chair
Shep (shep.titian): So if we may begin
Lilith Ivory: Hi guys
Rosie Gray waves to Lilith
Shep (shep.titian): Have you all checked the agenda and approve?
Lilith Ivory waves back
Shep (shep.titian): Hoi Lilith:)
Lilith Ivory: Hi Shep
You decline ! McCoy Island - Karoke - Open Mic from A group member named Ronald Barrabus.
Shep (shep.titian): Ok I hear no negatives
Shep (shep.titian): I believe I see all speakers for todays items barring Pat .. how many will want to speak ?
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Trebor Warcliffe: I will
Rosie Gray raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): Good all covered thank you
Lilith Ivory: I might
Shep (shep.titian): Noted Lilith
Beathan Vale: I have a word or two
Shep (shep.titian): Do any citizens have any concerns they wish to bring up?
Daniel Sosa: I have a clarification question
Shep (shep.titian): Ok Beathan 
Daniel Sosa: about SC
Shep (shep.titian): Go ahead Daniel
Daniel Sosa: When reading the forums it was said that a new Chair of SC is elected in July
Daniel Sosa: does that mean that Calli will be up for another vote for SC chair
Shep (shep.titian): That has yet to be passed in the reforms
Daniel Sosa: oh ok
Daniel Sosa: thank you
Callipygian Christensen: Yes Daniel..imo it will , if that passes
Shep (shep.titian): And my answer is I hope so
Shep (shep.titian): Ok any RA members with conerns?
Rosie Gray: not me
Beathan Vale: no special concerns today
Shep (shep.titian): Nor me
Shep (shep.titian): Ok moving on
Shep (shep.titian): Any old business that has any final problems?
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Shep (shep.titian): Ok ... New business .. and Trebor's proposals ...
Shep (shep.titian): Trebor would you like to say what you want to achieve and invite opinions ,, then present formally?
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes I can.
Shep (shep.titian): Good . I give you the floor for your first proposal
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Trebor Warcliffe: The Calendar proposal was developed based on Sudane's post in the forums. I dont want it to seem I'm being "heavy handed" (credit to Shep on that one) but it does seem if it isnt mandated than it hardly ever gets done. By holding all 3 branches responsible for their little sections I hope it will encourage our citizens to make use of it also.
Trebor Warcliffe: By the way, I'm practicing my being brief adn getting to the point methods LOL
Sudane Erato: Calendar touch access is posted on the right rear wall of the room, for those who'd like to try it
Shep (shep.titian): Well excellent work lol
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Trebor Warcliffe: It's frustrating that we have many good tools at our disposal and we're not making good use of them.
Trebor Warcliffe: What else Shep?
Shep (shep.titian): Well lets see if you want this made a formal proposal
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Shep (shep.titian): I for one feel its a step too far
Trebor Warcliffe: I'd like it to be but if the three branches agree they will make a concentrated effort to use the Calendar this term
Trebor Warcliffe: I can abstain
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Shep (shep.titian): I'll be honest .. my sons and I tried a networked diary and we soon let it slide
Trebor Warcliffe: Sudane has made it quite easy for us to use the calendar
Sudane Erato: Well, we need SOME claer and consistent system to publicize dates
spencer Cascarino is Online
Daniel Sosa: Raises hand
Lilith Ivory nods
Shep (shep.titian): Its not the use Trebor its the desire to use it ..
Shep (shep.titian): Daniel
Rosie Gray raises hand
Daniel Sosa: What is the intent of the calendar
Taylee Helix is Online
Daniel Sosa: maybe use it for limited things at first to see how it is taken by the citizens and if uused well then gradually increase the use of it
Trebor Warcliffe: To publisize events, important dates such as RA and SC meetings
Trebor Warcliffe: It's been in place for years it just hasnt been utilized
Daniel Sosa: then what would make it used more now
Daniel Sosa: I mean by the citizens
Daniel Sosa: if that is the goal as well
Sudane Erato: because a law required it
Lilith Ivory: I have it combined wioth calendars of other comunities ... but never see a CDS event there
Shep (shep.titian): It's a very patronisding law
Rosie Gray raises hand ... again
Shep (shep.titian): Rosie
Daniel Sosa: Would their be penalties for non use and how would it be governed
Trebor Warcliffe: If a citizen holds a weekly event such as Deni and her dance parties at her Gallery on Wed nights, she would post the event on teh calendar so anyoen looking at the calendar knows whats going on.
Trebor Warcliffe: Done for now, sorry Rosie
Rosie Gray: that's okay... I just wanted to point out that it's such a clumsy system
Rosie Gray: I personally never use those calendars...
Trebor Warcliffe: How's that?
Shep (shep.titian): I did'nt know we had one
Beathan Vale: I am skeptical that any citizens will look at the calendar other than those who already read the forums -- and we have a history of posting notices on the forums -- so I see no real benefit from this, but it clearly adds a new burden and responsibility to the LRA, Dean, etc. -- Notice is good and important (as the SC has already ruled in invalidating a RA meeting) -- that should be enough
Rosie Gray: I prefer activities to be promoted in-world and through the SL events
Sudane Erato: very few citizens read the forums
Beathan Vale: and very few will look at the calendar
Sudane Erato: and event postings are hard to find there
Rosie Gray: I just don't think it's worth the effort using that calendar
Lilith Ivory: it´s not such a ig burde to post an event there
Lilith Ivory: Aria forced me to do it when I was LRA
Shep (shep.titian): I think we have a consenus Trebor .. do you wish to continue or would you like to withdraw the propsal?
Sudane Erato:
Daniel Sosa: Does the calendar show up in public places throughout the sim
Rosie Gray: it's here and there Daniel
Razzy (moonrise.azalee) raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): Razzy
Trebor Warcliffe: Shep if I can get an oral committment from an SC and an RA member, along with myself that we will all make use of the calendar this term I would be willing to withdraw my formal proposal
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): Some form of community calendar is definitely useful. Many organizations have one and it can be a good way of getting information to those interested if people maintain it.
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes Razzy, ty
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Shep (shep.titian): Razzy as new RA would you like the task of using the calender this term to see if it makes a difference?
Shep (shep.titian): Calli after Razzy
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Razzy (moonrise.azalee): I use google calendars for work and for a few organizations I run, I am certainly willing to use the calendar for posting anything I am made aware of.
Rosie Gray reflects that perhaps it is because the calendar has never had anything on it that she has found it useless
Razzy (moonrise.azalee) nods
Trebor Warcliffe: Excellent Razzy thank you
Lilith Ivory nods in agreement
Shep (shep.titian): Excellent .. Trebor you havve RA prepared to try .. Calli?
Lilith Ivory: as I was silly enough to speak for it I could do also
Callipygian Christensen: Shep, thankyou - 2 things. First I have no objection to posting to the calendar - the SC now has a Secretary who will have that as part of the duties
Trebor Warcliffe: Thank you Lillith, as will I for the Executive branch.
Callipygian Christensen: second though, Treb, you mention Deni's events as an example
Trebor Warcliffe: yes
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Shep (shep.titian): Ok .. Trebor I accept your withdrawing of that propsal
Callipygian Christensen: what you were propsing doesnt addrss citizen activity (as it shouldnt) but perhaps the PIO actively inviting peple to post such regular or one time events should be done also
Trebor Warcliffe: Correct
Trebor Warcliffe: That's my way of thinking
Trebor Warcliffe: Someone in the Executive branch pays attention to our citizen held events and posts them also if hte citizen doesnt do it themselves
Callipygian Christensen: mMight even do it for them Done
Shep (shep.titian): Thank you Calli
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes, see above, Done
Shep (shep.titian): Thank You Trebor
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Shep (shep.titian): ok no vote needed moving on
Shep (shep.titian): Shall we do the same with your next proposal Trebor?
Trebor Warcliffe: ???
Shep (shep.titian): The Waiver
Trebor Warcliffe: I feel pretty passionate about the waiver
Trebor Warcliffe: I'd like it discussed
Shep (shep.titian): So lets nave it!!
Shep (shep.titian): Have
Rosie Gray: lol
Callipygian Christensen: I think she meant 'follow the same format', not 'withdraw'
Shep (shep.titian): Yes
Shep (shep.titian): Sorry .. welsh!
Trebor Warcliffe: I have yet to see anyone present a true "conflict of interest" example that would make this waiver a bad idea. Those who argue the conflict of interest are questioning their own abilities to make a decicison based on what is presented and not because they have a civil service position and the Chancellor wants it passed.
Shep (shep.titian): lol
Trebor Warcliffe: If people are willing and able to hold multiple positions in the CDS than I dont see why they shouldnt be allowed to.
Trebor Warcliffe: Waiting for a counter argument now.
Beathan Vale: Plurality of office and separation of powerss
Trebor Warcliffe: Im listening Beathan
Beathan Vale: Plurality of office (concentration of powers in a few people) has always been proven to be a bad and harmful idea wherever and whenever it has been tried
Shep (shep.titian): My counter is'nmt about example it's about the three arms of Government
Trebor Warcliffe: A civil service position doesnt have power as far as in the Executive branch
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Beathan Vale: Separation of Powers is a key mechanism for preventign exactly that -- and it is CONSTITUTIONALLY mandated here -- and this Act proposes to essentially abolish it
Soro Dagostino: brb
Trebor Warcliffe: The Chancellor is hte one who presents the proposal to the RA
Beathan Vale: That is -- frankly -- both dangerous and crazy
Shep (shep.titian): Your 'helpers' are part of the executive Trebor
Sudane Erato: raise hand
Trebor Warcliffe: In a civil service position yes but not in a decision making position like the Chancellor
Beathan Vale: and all because recruitment is difficult and that makes certain projects harder --
Shep (shep.titian): Sudane
Beathan Vale: I would rather handle that either through better recruitment or fewer projects
Sudane Erato: to suggest in RL that the holder of a governemtnt position... let's say a legislator... could not go and volunteer at a soup kitchen... would be the height of luncay
Sudane Erato: *lunacy
Sudane Erato: we NEED volunteers
Sudane Erato: done
Shep (shep.titian): Sudane Trebor is'nt asking for that level of help .. I already do a good bit more than that
Beathan Vale: no one is suggesting that govt officials can't volunteer in private activities -- the proposal is to allow people to hold multiple, official positions in multiple branches of govt -- entirely different
Sudane Erato: forget the saqlaries
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Daniel Sosa: I agree with Beathan
Sudane Erato: just let people help!
Shep (shep.titian): Calli?
Beathan Vale: people can help -- privately -- even informally - -just not officially through multiple offices
Shep (shep.titian): They can Sudane
Callipygian Christensen: as an observation, and I think this is one of the challenges Trebor is trying to address -
Sudane Erato: that's not clear to me from this discussion
Callipygian Christensen: if it is someones *duty* to do something they are more likely to do it, show up..whatever..
Razzy (moonrise.azalee) raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): Sadly that has'nt proven the case tho
Callipygian Christensen: if people are volunteering in the 'oh I can help with that' methodology, they are more likely to have othr things distract or delay
Shep (shep.titian): After Calli .. Razzy
Callipygian Christensen: I did say 'more' not 'will'
Daniel Sosa: Raises hand
Rosie Gray raises hand
Callipygian Christensen: My point is that I think Trebor is just trying to have a higher level of committment in place than 'oh sure, I can ahlep out with that'
Callipygian Christensen: done
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): Thank you Shep...
Shep (shep.titian): After Calli Razzy Daniel the Rosie
Shep (shep.titian): Razzy
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): My observation is that there is a lot to be done. I have often complained about different things... outdated signs left up, or signs for parcel sales that arent really for sale etc....
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): there seems like a lot of work to do, and I wonder if it isn't true that perhaps all the people who are ready to dedicate such time to helping are already holding positions... are there enough interested parties left outside of those holding a position? done
Shep (shep.titian): Fair point
Shep (shep.titian): Daniel?
Daniel Sosa: I would have to agree with Beathan on his point of better recruitment
Shep (shep.titian): Thank you .. Rosie
Daniel Sosa: if the point is to get more citizens involved then there has to be a way to communicate to the citizens on the duties at hand
Rosie Gray waits to see if Daniel is finished
Callipygian Christensen coughs - recruitment isnt the problem, it's participation
Daniel Sosa: maybe the duties outlined in those positions are too much to ask of one individual
Daniel Sosa: maybe break those up into manageable things or repsonsibilities and maybe other in CDS would come forward
Daniel Sosa: recruitment is the key I believe0--Done
Shep (shep.titian): Thank you
Shep (shep.titian): Rosie
Daniel Sosa: Well Calli poarticipaino requires recruitment
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Rosie Gray: lol
Shep (shep.titian): Passes Calli as cough sweet
Daniel Sosa: cough
Rosie Gray: done, Daniel?
Shep (shep.titian): Tsk
Callipygian Christensen grins andslaps her own hand
Daniel Sosa: yes now I am after clearing throat
Daniel Sosa: hehehe
Trebor Warcliffe: lol
Rosie Gray: okay, thanks
Shep (shep.titian): You've started Trebor now
Rosie Gray: my opinion is that there are a lot of good points being made
Shep (shep.titian): 
Rosie Gray: but fundamentally I agree that the people interested in committing their efforts
Rosie Gray: are probably doing so already
Beathan Vale: I must note that I think Trebor has made strong efforts at recruitment -- maybe if he repeats those efforts he will get better results, but I am skeptical. I think that thee real problem might be that we are trying to do too much
Rosie Gray: and I do think that unless it is considered a 'duty', people will find other more important things to do
Scarlet Chandrayaan is Online
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Rosie Gray: but also, those positions do seem to have a LOT of reponsibilities, so it can appear overwhelming
Razzy (moonrise.azalee) nods
Trebor Warcliffe: raises hand
Scarlet Chandrayaan is Offline
Rosie Gray: so, perhaps some kind of compromise would work
Rosie Gray: done
Shep (shep.titian): I disagree Rosie .. I think if they have a huge list of must do's they'll run a mile
Scarlet Chandrayaan is Online
Rosie Gray: that's basically what I said, Shehp
Trebor Warcliffe looking for his running shoes, nope no where to be found
Shep (shep.titian): Maybe people work both ways .. what does for one etc etc
Rosie Gray: if the list is too imposing, people don't want to commit
Daniel Sosa: I have located mine but still holding off putting them on
Rosie Gray: unless they are the type that are already doing a lot
Sudane Erato:
Razzy (moonrise.azalee) nods
Trebor Warcliffe: Give me those shoes Daniel, you can't run yet, I've got plans for you.
Rosie Gray: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Trebor Warcliffe: Ok Calli had her hand raised
Daniel Sosa: ahhhh agenda within agendas not good for the executive office
Shep (shep.titian): I do help in ways other than RA .. I enjoy it .. but I don't want a 'job'
Rosie Gray: yes, see
Shep (shep.titian): Sorry Calli
Rosie Gray: 
Trebor Warcliffe: I have a possible compromise but I want to hear Calli first before I counter
Callipygian Christensen: Those positions DO seem large, and in the absence of people IN them the Chancellor be defaultis expected to peform them. The trend ahs been to sugggest more and more responsibilites handed to the Executive, but ti's rather foolish to put barriers in the way to sharing the load. No one will want to be Chancellor if they see the size of the task. As for recruitment vs participation, with respect Daniel, Trebor has announced, pleaded and I amsureIve seen him on his kneews begging
Trebor Warcliffe: ROFLMO
Shep (shep.titian): pmsl
Callipygian Christensen: and still positions and tasks have had no takers.
Trebor Warcliffe dustes the soil from my knees
Shep (shep.titian): On your Knees man!!
Daniel Sosa: then maybe it is a lost cause--sorry to say
Trebor Warcliffe: Its not a lost cause
Trebor Warcliffe: there is hope
Rosie Gray: lol
Shep (shep.titian): Or was that wrong window!
Callipygian Christensen: In reality we have a far smaller *active* citizenry that the list suggests
Trebor Warcliffe: Very true calli
Trebor Warcliffe: Ok if everyone is done I'd like to present my counter and possible compromise
Shep (shep.titian): Gop ahead Trebor
Rosie Gray agrees with Calli that Trebor has tried very hard to get more involvement from the citizens
Trebor Warcliffe: First point
Callipygian Christensen: So I am saying that if Trebor or any future chancellor is losig things in the cracks because those position are not filled and volunteers are not following through..lets not get out the pitchforks
Callipygian Christensen: done
Trebor Warcliffe: Recruitment isnt the issue as some here have confirmed I have literally begged for help
Trebor Warcliffe: Participation is a big issue. I as well as others understand everyones SL adn CDS time is limited.
Trebor Warcliffe: Beathan's comment about having to many irons in the fire really doesnt apply either
Trebor Warcliffe: I held one MAIN event
Trebor Warcliffe: thsi past term on one day
Trebor Warcliffe: and the help I recieved was minimal at best though I am very grateful for the help I did receive
Trebor Warcliffe: The problem that I see with my proposal is the official titles attached to the "civil service positions"
Trebor Warcliffe: I'd like to make use of Cindy's suggestion in the forums
Beathan Vale: I wasn't speaking of the number of events -- if the duties are too heavy for the Chancellor to perform with the help he can get -- we need to reduce them -- not merely the number of events, but the general tasks
Trebor Warcliffe: You cant reduce the tasks Beathan
Trebor Warcliffe: If you do teh community suffers
Trebor Warcliffe: Think about it
Trebor Warcliffe: Have we had an event since February?
Trebor Warcliffe: Besides the one Shep hosted?
Trebor Warcliffe: No
Trebor Warcliffe: Why?
Beathan Vale: or at least prioritize them -- I don't agree, Trebor -- and no one has really scrutinized that issue
Rosie Gray raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): I'd like to sit down with you in a s,mall group to discuss the duties
Trebor Warcliffe: Because I had no one to help with them and I wasnt doing them myself again
Derrek Scatter is Online
Shep (shep.titian): Rosie
Rosie Gray: thank you Shep...
Rosie Gray: I think that the list of duties for one of the proposed positions are so overwhelming that it looks like a full time job
Rosie Gray: if you are a person that takes it seriously, you may not want to commit to so much
Shep (shep.titian): I agree Rosie
Rosie Gray: there are a lot of practical maintenance tasks that the Chancellor has to do
Trebor Warcliffe: The job description for PIO was cut in half
Rosie Gray: that is not really seen by many people, if they are done
Trebor Warcliffe: very true Rosie
Rosie Gray: so there are many many things that need to be done, and by restricting the participants
Rosie Gray: based on them already being active in the group, just doesn't make sense to me
Rosie Gray: done
Trebor Warcliffe: Ok I'd like to present my compormise if I may
Shep (shep.titian): Thanks Rosie
Shep (shep.titian): I'm NOT against any of us helping with things I'm against being in two branches of government
Trebor Warcliffe: I will say that I have had a few of our citizens, Razzy, Bags, Dee, Tan,and Daniel to name a few that have approached me to volunteer their time and services on little thingsav
Trebor Warcliffe: Cindy
Trebor Warcliffe: In the forums
Taylee Helix is Offline
ElanCreations is Online
Trebor Warcliffe: Why not take the various duties and allow an individual no matter who they are to help out with that particular duty
Trebor Warcliffe: For example
Trebor Warcliffe: Tan has volunteered to assist me with the Availabel Land for Sale posting and all the work that goes into that
Trebor Warcliffe: Now for arguments sake
Trebor Warcliffe: If Tan was on the RA would she still be allowed ot help the Chancellor with thsi one task or are we goign to cal that a conflcit of interest also?
Trebor Warcliffe: Razzy has some great ideas to help with some of the PIO duties.
Daniel Sosa: Raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): Trebor this is'nt against helping
Shep (shep.titian): Its against job titles
Trebor Warcliffe: I understand that
Sudane Erato: helping is the issue
Shep (shep.titian): Daniel
Scarlet Chandrayaan is Offline
Trebor Warcliffe: Hold on Shep Im not done yet
Shep (shep.titian): Sorry
Beathan Vale: anyone can volunteer informally for anything -- we are loose that way -- but it is holding multiple offices (official position) in multiple branches that is the problem
Shep (shep.titian): Exactly Beathan
Trebor Warcliffe: It is about helping. If I eliminate "Titles" and "Official Positions" but SC members and RA members are performing some of these tasks is their going to be problems for me or any other Chancellor
Shep (shep.titian): No
Rosie Gray: there may be, as far as 'committment'
Dee Shepherd is Online
Trebor Warcliffe: I'm referring to the "you cant do that attitude"
Razzy (moonrise.azalee) raises hand
Rosie Gray raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): Razzy after Daniel
Shep (shep.titian): Then Rosie
Trebor Warcliffe: Basically what is being done than is we are eliminating civiil service positions and whoever wants to help with whatever tasks available
Trebor Warcliffe: can
Trebor Warcliffe: Correct?
Shep (shep.titian): Can someone speak Treb?
Beathan Vale: Trebor -- NO
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes
Rosie Gray: lol
Daniel Sosa: I withdraw my reason to speak since Trebor has eloquently stated what I was going to say
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes Shep Im done for the moment
Shep (shep.titian): Daniel
Beathan Vale: it would be best to have such positions and to fillthem with people who are committed to those offices -- but not serving in other branches
Shep (shep.titian): ok Razzy
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): Thank you Shep...
Beathan Vale: However, to the extent a task needs volunteer help,anyone can volunteer
Trebor Warcliffe: Can I respond to Beathan Shep or shall I wait?
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): without a title or certain listed 'duties' I think that the 'helping out' will fall apart.
Shep (shep.titian): Wait please
Rosie Gray nods
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): 1) People take a task more seriously if it is a designated duty-postion held
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): 2) things break down when people aren't sure who to go to for whatever needs to be done because everything is so casual.
Beathan Vale: Can we vote on this -- we are going in circles and there are other important agenda items
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): 3) the idea of getting non-position holding people to do it is good, but realistically there arent many available.
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): and there is a lot of stuff to be done that can't just be eliminated due to lack of people. done
Shep (shep.titian): Trebor do you want to formally propose?
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Rosie Gray: ahem
Shep (shep.titian): Sorry Rosie
Rosie Gray: thank you,
Rosie Gray: I jsut wanted to point out that in my proposal further down in the Agenda...
Rosie Gray: part of it would be a huge assistance to the Chancellor
Rosie Gray: so making some of the duties lighter, in regards to covenant enforcement
Rosie Gray: done
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Shep (shep.titian): I feel we need to come back to this myself .. but if you want a formal vote Trebor please propose
Trebor Warcliffe: No. Here is what I will do this term.
Trebor Warcliffe: If I have someone available to fill an "official" position that isnt on teh RA or the SC
Trebor Warcliffe: than I will give them that position
Trebor Warcliffe: If I am unable to find someone to fill a position than I will address each duty of that position on an individual basis and will accept help from whoever wants to work on one or two of the duties, RA or SC member or not. Fair enough?
Rosie Gray: ã‹¡
Shep (shep.titian): Very fair Trebor .. I can support that 100%
Trebor Warcliffe: Beathan???
Trebor Warcliffe cant tell if Beathan is typing or not
Beathan Vale: I really have to see how Iit plays out in practice before I can say that I think it is good -- if work gets done without powers piling up in one or two hands -- I'm fine with it -- but if someone becomes some kind of superofficial as a result, I will have concerns
Shep (shep.titian): But for now we are done
Trebor Warcliffe: fair enough, though I doubt Ill have powers piling up in one or two hands LOL
Shep (shep.titian): lol
Trebor Warcliffe: Have you made any progress reaching out to the educators in SL?
Shep (shep.titian): Ok next and I shou;ld have said already .. both Pat and nna request a 7 day vote
Shep (shep.titian): Anna
Shep (shep.titian): Next constitutional reform of the SC
Beathan Vale: On that note -- I have confirmed that we can broadcast "Great Courses" classes in video form if (1) we or one of of us bought and owns tthe course and (2) we don't charge -- that might just be a matter of technical video streaming
Shep (shep.titian): I'm assuming you want the floor Calli .. are you happy with the same way?
Beathan Vale: and I have quite of few of those -- from "The Teaching Company"
Beathan Vale: Calli has asked me to formally propose that matter for debate -- and I do
Trebor Warcliffe: Excellent Beathan my email is [email protected] please emailme the details and we'll egt moving on it
Beathan Vale: I have a few words on it
Shep (shep.titian): OPk Beathan go ahead
Shep (shep.titian): ok
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Soro Dagostino raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): Soro?
Soro Dagostino: Point of Order . . .
Soro Dagostino: Is there a second?
Shep (shep.titian): I'll second
Soro Dagostino: I'd like to make sure its properly before the Body
Rosie Gray dosn't recall hearing a motion
Soro Dagostino: TYVM
Trebor Warcliffe: RL calls, have to go. Everyone support Rosie's agenda please
Trebor Warcliffe is Offline
Beathan Vale: the proposal we have is a difficult compromise to address issues with the SC -- both as to the workings of the SC and to its relationship with outher branches of government. I have reservations and concerns with the proposal -- but nothing that disqualifies it as something to try. It has been a long process -- with Delia, Shep and Calli playing primary roles and doing a lot of very hard and trying work -- the result is imperdect and may need further reforms and also leaves some questions unresolved (through silence) because no consensus could be approached, let alone reached ...
Beathan Vale: done
Shep (shep.titian): Thanks Beathan . I remove myself from the hard work .. I just stuck my nose in
Beathan Vale: lol
Soro Dagostino raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): Soro
Soro Dagostino: Many moons ago, I asked Calli and Delia to lead the investigation into the reforms. They have done an execellent job.
Soro Dagostino: I urge the passage of the compromise presentation.
Soro Dagostino: done
Shep (shep.titian): Thank you
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Shep (shep.titian): Calli
Callipygian Christensen: As Beathan noted, this represents compromise - often necessary in this sort of thing, but seldom welcome - but it is a positive step forward to have reached agreement on what is before you and it will allow the SC to start reform of its procedures as well.
Callipygian Christensen: We will be asking the incoming RA to allow the committee to continue disucssions, but I express here that the SC supports the Act and the amendment
Callipygian Christensen: and I would like to say that Pat, Beathan, Sudane and Delia have made this a far less contentious issue than it might hae been..thank them for that
Callipygian Christensen: Done
Shep (shep.titian): Thank you .. Delia .. I note from the forum that you mat have an issue?
Shep (shep.titian): may
Delia Lake: Shep, we have resolved it for now
Delia Lake: ty for asking
Callipygian Christensen: The text of the amendmentwas edited to address Pat and Delia's concerns
Shep (shep.titian): Ok .. well this all seems less fraught than I expected
Sudane Erato: shocking for the CDS
Shep (shep.titian): Ah ok lovely ..
Rosie Gray: hehehe
Shep (shep.titian): lol
Shep (shep.titian): well Bethan
Daniel Sosa: changing the constitution easier than volunteer positions
Daniel Sosa: interesting
Beathan Vale: angst behind the scenes can produce good results in public
Sudane Erato:
Shep (shep.titian): Its in the work done before Daniel
Rosie Gray: indeed
Shep (shep.titian): Hours opf it
Beathan Vale: Daniel -- it only looks that way -- we've been struggling with this for the last 6-8 months
Callipygian Christensen: (we wont tell them Pat isnt here because he's tied up in the shed in CN)
Rosie Gray: rofl
Sudane Erato: lol ))
Delia Lake: lol
Daniel Sosa: lol
Shep (shep.titian): OK well do you want a vote Beathan lol
Soro Dagostino: LOLLOLOLLL
Callipygian Christensen: This requires two vots madame Chair
Shep (shep.titian): Ok
Beathan Vale: I call for a vote -- I think that there are two matters -- so Act first
Beathan Vale: Amendment second
Shep (shep.titian): Ok .. A vote on the act
Callipygian Christensen: would you like the text posted here or just the URL?
Callipygian Christensen: text might be best for the transcript?
Shep (shep.titian): Go for the text
Callipygian Christensen: Scientific Council Affirmation Procedures Act
Preamble
This Act clarifies the way in which the Representative Assembly will provide a vote of confidence on candidates to the Scientific Council. The intention is that the SC, candidates for the SC and the RA will work together cooperatively to interview candidate SC members at the earliest opportunity and affirm (or deny) the appointment.
NL 4-8 Scientific Council Affirmation Procedures Act is repealed.
When a vacancy occurs on the SC, the Chair will announce that a vacancy is pending in the Forums and CDS group notices, and will specify a timeframe for external nominations to be submitted. Any citizen may put their own name forward for consideration, or may nominate any other citizen. The Chair and other members of the SC may also identify suitable nominees.
The SC will review all nominations to ensure that nominees meet the posted qualifications for SC membership.
All nominees with the required qualifications will be interviewed by the SC and will
Callipygian Christensen: be accepted as an SC candidate by a simple majority vote.
In the event of multiple candidates, the candidate put forward to the RA will be selected by a blind draw. The Chair of the SC will provide the LRA with the name of the candidate within 24 hours of the vote or of the blind draw.
The LRA will invite the candidate to appear at the next meeting of the RA to be interviewed in regards to their perceived likelihood to uphold the Constitution, and to receive a vote of confidence from the RA. RA members are expected to consider any candidate based on their ability to perform the duties of an SC member, not on any personal friendship or enmity. RA members will give a brief rationale for their vote and the candidate will be considered confirmed by a simple majority.
If the candidate is unable to attend the next meeting of the RA he or she will provide the LRA with a selection of dates and times that they are available to attend a future RA meeting, and both the candidate and the LRA will make every effort to schedule the candidate’s appearance as soon as possible.
If the candidate fails to appear at the nex
Callipygian Christensen: o schedule the candidate’s appearance as soon as possible.
If the candidate fails to appear at the next RA meeting, or a meeting held on an agreed date and time within 60 days of the SC meeting that approved their candidacy, their candidacy will be considered withdrawn. If the RA, due to its own failure to be quorate or to hold a meeting on an agreed date and time to interview the candidate, fails to interview the candidate at a public RA meeting, within 60 days of the SC meeting that approved the candidacy, the candidate will be considered confirmed.
During the 60 day period, or until the RA vote of confidence is held, the candidate will attend SC meetings and will be permitted to contribute their opinions and expertise, but will not be permitted to vote.
Beathan Vale: I move for a vote on the new Act
Rosie Gray: seconded
Shep (shep.titian): I second
Shep (shep.titian): and vote Aye
Beathan Vale: Aye
Rosie Gray: aye
Shep (shep.titian): we hjave to wait for the 7 day votes I bellieve to reach majority
Beathan Vale: No -- I think the Act passes now -- but the Amendment can't
Shep (shep.titian): Ah ok sorry still in L plates
Beathan Vale: until the 7 day votes come in
Callipygian Christensen agrees with Beathan
Shep (shep.titian): The act passes .. well done all
Rosie Gray: ··•°•··..☺ Applauds! ☺ ..··•°•··..
Daniel Sosa: well done group
Shep (shep.titian): Ok Beathan next?
Rosie Gray commends all the work that went into this
Beathan Vale: OK -- Callli can you post the Amendment next
Shep (shep.titian): Yes well done for not coming to blows
Beathan Vale: I only wish that were true 
Shep (shep.titian): Ah .. hiding bruises Beathan lol
Callipygian Christensen: ok, large block of text coming
Beathan Vale: We jsut keep our blows in private, Unlike the Unkrainian parliament
Sudane Erato: hehe
Callipygian Christensen: Article 111 of the Constitution is replaced with the following:
Shep (shep.titian): Lol .. that was so funny
Callipygian Christensen: make that III
Callipygian Christensen: Article III – The Philosophic Branch
Section 1 – The Scientific Council
The Scientific Council (SC) is a self-selected meritocracy.
The specific role of the SC is to hold all branches of government true to the Constitution, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the CDS Code of Laws and the SL ToS.
The SC carries out its role by performing the following services:
-Review of all laws and amendments to the Constitution to ensure that such laws or amendments do not contravene the Constitution, the founding documents, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the CDS Code of Laws and the SL ToS
-Act as a neutral body to resolve disputes between citizens and their government, by hearing appeals from citizens that challenge the decisions or actions of the RA or any member of the Executive, in carrying out their duties as defined by the Laws and Constitution of the CDS.
-Administer the CDS election process by accepting and publicizing the names of candidates, hearing challenges to the official Ci
Callipygian Christensen: hment of members of the Representative branch for violating the constitution or acting illegally.
The SC may review the outcome of any judicial decision or executive action and may invalidate any such decision or action if it is in violation of any of the founding or constitutional documents, the Code of Laws or the UDHR.

Section 7 – Hearings and Trials
All impeachment hearings will be performed by the full Scientific Council . If a a member of the SC is accused, that member will be excused for the duration of the hearing. A member of the branch of government that is not calling for the impeachment hearing will serve as Chair of the SC during the hearing.
Section 8 – Limitations of the SC
Any member can be removed with a 2/3 majority vote of the SC.
Callipygian Christensen: tizens List or List of Candidates, submitting the official Lists of Candidates and Citizens to the manager of the election software, placing and removing the polling stations at the designated locations and times, receiving and ratifying the results of the election and publicizing these results.
-Moderate the CDS Forums to ensure that content meets the ToS of the Forums.
Section 2 – The Scientific Council Body
The Scientific Council shall regularly consist of 5 members, all of equal standing and holding a single vote. SC members will be selected based on demonstrated skill and desire to uphold the constitution without bias and will serve for a term of up to 3 years, excluding any time the member is inactive due to a requested leave of absence. The Chair of the SC may, at his or her discretion nominate additional members , to a maximum of 7, to accommodate requested leaves of absence of sitting SC members.
Section 3 – The Scientific Council Chair
The SC shall elect one member to act as Chair by simple majority vote. Election of the Chair will take place once per year, in July.
Section 4 – Proce
Callipygian Christensen: simple majority vote. Election of the Chair will take place once per year, in July.
Section 4 – Proceedings
The SC will convene at least once per month. The SC may determine the rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behavior and with the concurrence of two-thirds expel a member from a session.
Section 5 – Journal
The SC shall keep and publish a journal of its proceedings in the form of a transcript. All individual votes of the members of the SC on any question shall always be included, along with a statement regarding their personal philosophy on a given vote.
Section 6 – Powers of the SC
Members of the SC shall ratify bills passed by the Representative Assembly by simple majority vote.
The SC may veto or resubmit a bill or constitutional amendment if it is in violation of any of the founding or constitutional documents, the Code of Laws or the UDHR.

The Scientific Council may veto a revenue bill or resubmit a modified revenue bill for vote.
The SC may seek impeachment of members of the Representative branch for violating the constitution or acting illegally.
The SC
Callipygian Christensen throws a shoe at Beathan to signify she is done posting text
Beathan Vale: I move for a vote on the Amendment -- after sufficient time for people to read this
Shep (shep.titian): Lol he's typing
Rosie Gray: so seconded
Shep (shep.titian): Vote
Shep (shep.titian): I vote Aye
Rosie Gray: aye
Beathan Vale: aye
Rosie Gray: woo
Shep (shep.titian): Ok this time we do have to wait for 7 day votes .. but again thabks for the work
Rosie Gray:
Shep (shep.titian): And I'm sure we can assume it's going to pass
Soro Dagostino raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): Soro
Rosie Gray: lol
Soro Dagostino: Is a "woo" an "aye" in this land?
Rosie Gray: there was an 'aye', before the 'woo'
Shep (shep.titian): There was an aye before the woo
Soro Dagostino: k
Shep (shep.titian): spooky
Rosie Gray: the woo was an exclamation point
Rosie Gray: heeh
Soro Dagostino: Congratulations all.
Beathan Vale: Aye Wu -- I think I knew someone named that once.
Shep (shep.titian): Ok next .. Rosie are you happy to discuss first?
Rosie Gray: yes thanks Shep
Rosie Gray: I think I have given out a notecard to everyone here, re my proposal for a new builder's guild
Rosie Gray: please tell me if you haven't received it
Shep (shep.titian): Ay Wu Wu is a chinese artist .. I probably spelled it wrong
Rosie Gray: nobody doesn't have it? okay good
Shep (shep.titian): Apologies for that Rosie .. my net went down until just before the meeting
Callipygian Christensen: I dont seem to..I think SLate it
Rosie Gray: okay I'll post it in chat, for the record
Rosie Gray: I would like to put forth a proposal for consideration, to create a new NGO Builder's Guild.
Since the current New Guild has been inactive and basically dysfunctional for some time now, I see this as an opportunity to create something new that is more streamlined, less ambitious and more workable for the CDS as it is now.
Here's an outline:
Name: Guild of CDS Builders (or something else a little catchier) ã‹¡
Membership:
* Create an SL group that citizens will need to join to be members of the guild. (This to get away from the current non-system of whoever shows up is a member.)
* Members must be CDS citizens in good standing, to join the guild.
* Replace the 'Secretary' with 'Executive Director', which is the current standard for not-for-profit societies, and have a Chairperson, Treasurer, and Recording Secretary all elected from the membership.
* Explore the idea of titles and levels for the group, in the tradition of apprentice, craftsman, journeymen, and master crafts
Rosie Gray: and master craftsman. The more accomplished builders aiding the others to become better builders.
* First purpose of the guild would be to create content and sim development for the CDS, as requested by the government.
* Second purpose of the guild would be to inspect new citizen buildings and notify the Chancellor if they are outside of compliance. Also, to assist citizens in making their buildings comply with covenants (and ensure that trees do not float, roofs fit, and realism is achieved to a reasonable level). I think the guild could be the first (and best-case scenarios the only required) step for covenant monitoring.
* To help pay for the guild tiers, and for ongoing services rendered, a monthly government stipend
* Large scale development reimbursements to be negotiated between individual builders and the government, but with the oversight of the guild as a whole. This last to ensure quality control as well as helping to spread the potential work around within the guild creato
Daniel Sosa: I have to go to RL
Daniel Sosa: sorry Rosie I wont be able to stay
Daniel Sosa: good luck
Daniel Sosa: bye all
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): Bye Daniel
Shep (shep.titian): Ok Danile .. thanks for coming
Lilith Ivory: bye Daniel
Rosie Gray: This last to ensure quality control as well as helping to spread the potential work around within the guild creators, according to their skill levels and interest.
All of this would need refining, but I would urge that the guild by-laws and charter be as straightforward as possible, keeping it's scale suitable to the modest number of active citizens in the CDS now. Let's keep it to a practical level, and let people who enjoy content creation have fun with it.
Shep (shep.titian): lol Daniel
Rosie Gray: that's the full text
Rosie Gray: bye Daniel
Daniel Sosa is Offline
Rosie Gray: further to this
Rosie Gray: I would like to propose that the RA assign someone to call a first meeting to start the ball rolling
Shep (shep.titian): I will do that .. and suggest you might like to do that Rosie
Rosie Gray: I could, since this is my last meeting on the RA
Shep (shep.titian): Exactly
Treacle (treacle.darlandes) is Online
Rosie Gray: if others agree... or someone else could
Pip Torok is Online
Rosie Gray: I see this proposal as a draft idea and that the new group would hammer out the details
Shep (shep.titian): I propose Rosie Grey call a meeting to form a group to discuss the forming of as Builders Guild
Shep (shep.titian): Beathan feel like seconding?
Beathan Vale: second
Shep (shep.titian): thank you .. and vote .. Aye
Rosie Gray: thank you
Rosie Gray: aye
Beathan Vale: aye
Shep (shep.titian): Cool ...
Rosie Gray: hi Pip
Shep (shep.titian): Hi Pip
Lilith Ivory: hi Pip
Razzy (moonrise.azalee) waves at Pip
Rosie Gray: ã‹¡
Pip Torok: hi Rosie hi everyone
Delia Lake: hi Pip
Shep (shep.titian): Ok well so carried .. Rosie please set that up at your convienience
Rosie Gray: thank all, I will ã‹¡
Shep (shep.titian): Ok I don't think we have any commission reports
Soro Dagostino: Excuse me, RL calls.
Callipygian Christensen: be Soro
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): Bye Soro
Callipygian Christensen: bye too lol
Lilith Ivory: bye Soro
Shep (shep.titian): And as the Executive has disappeared no exec report
Soro Dagostino: Bye all
Rosie Gray: bye Soro
Shep (shep.titian): Bye
Pip Torok: hello goodbye Soro
Shep (shep.titian): Anyone with annoucements
Rosie Gray: not me
Shep (shep.titian): Ok
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Shep (shep.titian): Next RA meeting .. Beathan Pip and Razzy .. Trbor wants us to hold one next Saturday .. is that ok??
Beathan Vale: should be
Pip Torok: for me yes ...
Sudane Erato: next Sat is June, no?
Shep (shep.titian): He plans on following it with the Ball
Callipygian Christensen coughs
Sudane Erato: isn't that the next RA?
Shep (shep.titian): It is yes Sudane
Sudane Erato: ok
Razzy (moonrise.azalee) waits to hear from Calli
Shep (shep.titian): Yes but we;re here
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand a little higher
Shep (shep.titian): Sorry Calli
Callipygian Christensen: Since the swearing in of the 17th RA is immediately after this, with the election of the LRA to happen immediatley, it would be appropriate for the LRA to call for the next meeting date after everyone is sworn in
Pip Torok: agrees
Shep (shep.titian): ok fair enough
Rosie Gray winks
Shep (shep.titian): Then we wrap up this RA as far as meetings go .. I want to say its been a blast .. IO've enjoyed working with all of you
Flower Garside (hakimba.firehawk) is Offline
Sudane Erato: yay!... ty all
Shep (shep.titian): Adjourn