Shep Titian: Ok folks .. call this meeting to order
Pip Torok: Hi .. pleased to see you !
Shep Titian: Hi Anna
Moonrise Azalee: Hello Anna!
Pip Torok: hi Anna .. pleased to see you!
Anna Toussaint: Hi, Shep
Anna Toussaint: Hi, Pip
Anna Toussaint: Hi everyone
Anna Toussaint: Hi Razzy
Shep Titian: There is a copy of the agenda in the CDS box ... and please note if you speak you consent to being recorded
Pip Torok has indicated consent to be recorded.
Shep Titian: OK anyone have any problems with the agenda?
Moonrise Azalee: Not me
Pip Torok: no Mme LRA
Beathan Vale: No
Shep Titian: Anna ?
Anna Toussaint: nope
Shep Titian: Ok so approved
Shep Titian: I see Trebor here ,.. will you be wanting to speak on the budget Treb?
Trebor Warcliffe: If it is needed I can. There were no questions or feedback on the forums so Im assuming everyoen is fine with it.
Shep Titian: ok
Shep Titian: Citizens concerns?
Beathan Vale: I'm wondering if there is any way to not run a deficit --- I don't like planned deficits if they can be avoided
Shep Titian: Any of you have a burning question:)?
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes bring more people in
Shep Titian: Ok RA have any concerns?
Trebor Warcliffe: Our fixed expenses are just that "fixed" and our other expenses I was very conservative with.
Pip Torok: just one ....
Beathan Vale: I know -- I'm OK with that -- but it is outside the budget -- is there anything that can be done inside the budget -- can something be provisional unless we grow?
Beathan Vale: I didn't see anything myself -- I just want the question raised and formally addressed
Shep Titian: Could you two wait for the appropriate time
Beathan Vale: kk
Anna Toussaint: I move we ratify the budget as written
Shep Titian: When we get there Anna
Pip Torok: some citizens have expressed concern about the problems of grouped memebers getting on the voters list
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Anna Toussaint: ooops
Shep Titian: Any old business rattling around?
Anna Toussaint: sorry
Anna Toussaint: calli wants to swear me in
Callipygian Christensen thinks it might be good to do that before you get to voting 
Tanoujin Milestone: hehehe
Moonrise Azalee grins
Anna Toussaint: or making motions
Pip Torok: good idea!
Anna Toussaint:
Shep Titian: They have had months to get themselves sorted Pip .. what are they finding difficult?
Anna Toussaint: are we talking about the same thing?
Anna Toussaint: I need to be sworn in by a member of the judiciary
Shep Titian: Pip brought up a concern I was waiting for him to expand on it
Beathan Vale: I jumpws the gun on the bduget because thought it was about to proceed without discussion
Callipygian Christensen waves her hand a bit more
Shep Titian: Ok Pip seems done
Shep Titian: Calli if you would be so kind
Anna Toussaint: please call on Calli, madame chair
Beathan Vale: I have a question for Calli before we move on
Anna Toussaint:
Callipygian Christensen: thank you
Pip Torok: have bought up the concern .. i will discuss it with trebor if he is willing
Callipygian Christensen: Before we affirmmAnna?
Beathan Vale: no
Tanoujin Milestone: ceremony
Callipygian Christensen: Anna, the affirmation of office is a public declaration that in the office to which you have been duly elected, you will solomnly affirm to uphold the Constitution of the CDS and take the duties of the RA seriously
Anna Toussaint: I, Anna Toussaint, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Pip Torok: CLAP!!!!
Callipygian Christensen: congratulatiosns Anna
Anna Toussaint: yay
Moonrise Azalee: yay!
Callipygian Christensen: done
Trebor Warcliffe applauds
Moonrise Azalee laughs
Guillaume Mistwalker claps.
Tanoujin Milestone: congrats, Anna
Shep Titian: Well done Anna
Rosie Gray: clap clap clap
Anna Toussaint: hey, G ... I didn't see you
Anna Toussaint: hi, rosie!
Guillaume Mistwalker: Hi!
Rosie Gray: ?
Shep Titian: Thanks Calli
Beathan Vale: OK -- question for Calli, if I may
Shep Titian: Ok .. Budget .. could we have some small discussion before the proposal please
Beathan Vale: Shep -- wait
Shep Titian: Beathan do you want to speak
Beathan Vale: First -- question for Calli -- Calli -- this last two weeks, Pat has done a lot of work (and great work) organizing the statute books and record of the Constitution. Is that what you had in mind last session? If so, is there anythign else that remains to be done? If not, what needs to be done?
Callipygian Christensen: I've been absent from keyboard almost totally for a number of days Beathan, with an injury so haven't read through, but I suspect not
Beathan Vale: OK -- review his work and email me
Callipygian Christensen: Archiving of laws and changing of wording would have to come through RA, so those parts certainly arent done
Callipygian Christensen: I sent you an e-mail with a number of examples?
Shep Titian: I think Pat is doing sterling work with it .. and is happy to continue
Beathan Vale: I think I got that -- but then things got busy again and I didn't lookat it closely -- then Pat did his work, which I think goes a long way to your goal
Callipygian Christensen: ok..so then should I forward that e-mail to Pat instead?
Pip Torok raises hand
Shep Titian: He's enjoying doing it Calli
Beathan Vale: No -- I'm still doing it -- I just don't want to go down a path if Pat has already cleared something up
Shep Titian: Ok
Shep Titian: Can we get back on track now?
Trebor Warcliffe: So get together with Pat, beathan.
Shep Titian: Pip?
Beathan Vale: yes
Pip Torok: can we assume Pat will be doing the minutes as before?
Shep Titian: Yes he is
Pip Torok: :]
Shep Titian: Ok BUDGET
Shep Titian: Beathan you wanted to say something?
Beathan Vale: Is there any way to balance the budget internally? Nothing sprang out at me -- it looks lean -- but perhaps something could be priorized to "provisional" status pending an increase in revenue or something
Shep Titian: Well the chancellor can come back to us if needed .. should the outlook improve
Trebor Warcliffe: Salaries were eliminated, some expenses are fixed, and others I went very conservative with.
Trebor Warcliffe: And even if we operate in a slight deficit we will not have to use any of our reserves
Beathan Vale: How is that possible?
Shep Titian: I personally feel events is a bit low .. if we are using them to draw folks in
Beathan Vale: Shep, I agree
Moonrise Azalee: I agree also
Trebor Warcliffe: I also lowballed hte estimate on revenue due to our low population
Beathan Vale: I just want to make sure we think things through
Trebor Warcliffe: The easiest way to improve our finances is to bring more people in.
Moonrise Azalee raises hand
Shep Titian: Yes but we need some carrots
Trebor Warcliffe: With all due respect everyoen had over two weeks to"think things through"
Shep Titian: Razzy?
Beathan Vale: OK -- I'm satisfied
Trebor Warcliffe: Sadly I must leave for now
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Anna Toussaint: I move we ratify the budget as written
Shep Titian: Ok Treb
Shep Titian: I think we can ratify
Pip Torok: seconded
Moonrise Azalee: I just wanted to say that I do agree that events help to draw people in. It's the best way to show that the CDS is a great place to Live work AND play
Trebor Warcliffe: Please email me with any questions thank you
Shep Titian: Vote
Anna Toussaint: aye
Moonrise Azalee: aye
Beathan Vale: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Shep Titian: aye
Shep Titian: Its ratified
Moonrise Azalee: woot!
Shep Titian: well done Trebor
Anna Toussaint:
Anna Toussaint: yes, good job
Shep Titian: Ok next thing .. Calli requested we look at the timing for new laws and giving citizens sufficient time to assimilate them
Shep Titian: Any thoughts
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand a bit higher
Shep Titian: Sorry Calli?
Callipygian Christensen: Just a comment here on the budget and the 'no salaries'
Shep Titian: ok
Beathan Vale: I would support making all laws effective only on close of the RA session, without a finding of emergency -- provided we have clear standards for what an emergency is -- which can be reviewed by SC -- but that might be TOO slow
Callipygian Christensen: NL 4-26 Public Information Act states as part of the law that the PIO will be paid 1000L a month
Callipygian Christensen: it's possible thats been amended somewhere, but if it hasn't, you might want to loook at that
Shep Titian: I believe Trebor is not seeking a PIO
Beathan Vale: The law might require a PIO and might rewuire payment -- we need to look at that
Callipygian Christensen: /eme nods, just pointing it out as something to be aware of
Shep Titian: Wonders if it's law that he has one
Shep Titian: Might SC be able to tell us?
Rosie Gray raises hand
Shep Titian: Rosie
Callipygian Christensen: Of course, it also says the PIO is appointed by the Guildmaster
Rosie Gray: thanks Shep... just wanted
Moonrise Azalee: oh dear
Callipygian Christensen: (as an example of my 'let's clean up all the old archaiclanguage)
Rosie Gray: to point out that Aliasi is receiving a salary... I just wanted to know what it was for
Rosie Gray: thanks
Beathan Vale: OH joy -- I suggest that whenever the RA abolishs arms of govt or associated entities, we include a term in the legislation describing how references in other standing laws are to be amended to harmonize
Shep Titian: Is she? I thought all were stopped now?
Rosie Gray: it's on the last financial statement
Anna Toussaint: she is prolly the cleaner-upper
Anna Toussaint: whatever that's called
Rosie Gray notes that lots of people clean-up
Anna Toussaint: L:ilith did it for years
Anna Toussaint: yes, they do
Callipygian Christensen: Beathan - that info should be appended to the appropriate laws for easy reference also
Beathan Vale: I think she owns the infohub irl -- and it might be rent not salary
Anna Toussaint: the infohub what?
Shep Titian: Ok .. well we need that Trebor be here to explain that and he;s not .. so moving on .. and noted
Rosie Gray: what infohub?
Callipygian Christensen: I believe Aliasi's salary has always been as content archivist for CDS no?
Anna Toussaint: ah
Beathan Vale: Calli -- I agree -- but I also think that a guiding backup to handle what we miss makes sense
Anna Toussaint: yes, that's right Calli
Graduation Diploma 1: Congratulations graduate!
Moonrise Azalee: the man of the hour
Shep Titian: Hi Trebor
Rosie Gray: perhaps we could know what is actually being done in that regard then, to know if it is warranted still
Rosie Gray: *:::* WELCOME BACK *:::*
Rosie Gray: Trebor
Moonrise Azalee: Now we can ask
Anna Toussaint: Treb ... what are we paying Aliasi for?
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand forthe 'notification of citizenry' thing when we get ack to it
Trebor Warcliffe: I've got about 20 minutes left
Shep Titian: Yes if we can kee it bref
Trebor Warcliffe: Web Hosting Fee
Anna Toussaint: ok
Moonrise Azalee: ahh
Trebor Warcliffe: $10.00 US a month
Beathan Vale: that's what I thought
Shep Titian: Thank yoou
Rosie Gray: ah okay
Trebor Warcliffe: yw
Shep Titian: Now maybe we can discuss the subject on the table
Rosie Gray: ahem
Beathan Vale: OK -- the boxes don't match -- why don't they match 
Shep Titian: Yes Rosie
Rosie Gray: sorry but I think that doesn't match what it says on the financial statement
Rosie Gray: Mizou is paid for the web hosting
Rosie Gray: it says Aliasi monthly pay
Shep Titian: The budgety is ratified
Trebor Warcliffe: Rosie
Shep Titian: tsk
Beathan Vale: 2 websites -- 1. forums; 2. infohub
Shep Titian: budget
Trebor Warcliffe: I believe you may be looking at last terms budget
Trebor Warcliffe: this terms budget is on the last page
Rosie Gray: May, 28, 2012
Trebor Warcliffe: Payment Request form on teh May financials?
Rosie Gray: yes
Trebor Warcliffe: That was last term
Rosie Gray: is that changed now then?
Shep Titian: Can we move on please you can argue about this later
Trebor Warcliffe: May was the last month of last term
Rosie Gray: ok, sorry
Rosie Gray shuts up
Shep Titian: thank you
Tanoujin Milestone: notification?
Shep Titian: ok as asked already .. How long dop we feel we should give as notice of new laws etc to give leeway for cittizens to comply
Callipygian Christensen waves her hand
Shep Titian: Calli?
Callipygian Christensen: It isn't just 'how long'..it's also 'how'
Pip Torok raises hand
Callipygian Christensen: Beathan..it isnt about when laws come into effect either
Callipygian Christensen: each time something affecting citizens is passed there is a debate ..'maybe we send them all an e-mail'..or a notecard...
Beathan Vale: we could use the Persian method -- require every law be passed twice -- once while drunk and then while sober -- and allow consideration in the meantime
Shep Titian: Yes the whole process
Beathan Vale: ah-- OK
Moonrise Azalee grins at Beathan
Shep Titian: lol
Callipygian Christensen: 'they might only sing in once a month to pay tier'..and that now could be 'only log in once every three months'...
Pip Torok raises hand again
Beathan Vale: Could we post on the CDS group discussion? Or is that too buggy?
Beathan Vale: We typically do post on the forums -- but people say no one reads them
Callipygian Christensen: so how are citizens to be notified, and ideally what timeframe should be attached
Shep Titian: We can certainly post yes .. but how much hand holding should we do
Soro Dagostino raises hand
Pip Torok suggests we ask what stops the reading it...
Callipygian Christensen: (keeping in mind that citizens have a responsibility to stay informed and therefore to check one of the sources of info that is designated)
Moonrise Azalee agrees with Calli
Beathan Vale: Can we put up an inworld access to the RA portion of the forums?
Shep Titian: Exactly Calli
Anna Toussaint: I agree with Calli as well
Trebor Warcliffe Trebor strongly agrees with Calli
Shep Titian: they know the kind of way we do things
Pip Torok: so does Pip
Moonrise Azalee: A notecard, and a forum post.
Anna Toussaint: would a two week period before the law goes into effect plus a posting do it?
Callipygian Christensen: Razzy, with respect, the notecard thing is a huge amount of work that I thik is unreasonable
Beathan Vale: notecard distrtibution to all citizens seems problematic
Moonrise Azalee: I actually meant group notice...
Moonrise Azalee: sorry
Trebor Warcliffe: Forum posting is the easiest and permenent way in my opinion
Pip Torok wd suggest reading the Forums be presented as one of the things a citizen does .. all to be put in the welcome-book
Soro Dagostino raises hand
Callipygian Christensen: Personally I think forum posting and in world group posting should be enough
Moonrise Azalee agrees with Pip
Rosie Gray agrees with Calli and Pip
Callipygian Christensen: I just want it established as 'yes, that is sufficient notification'
Shep Titian: We can add a note to a group notification as Razzy suggested
Moonrise Azalee: Forum, Group Notice and mention in the welcome handbook to check such thigns.
Shep Titian: Soro
Soro Dagostino: Points been covered.
Anna Toussaint: I move that sufficient notification be considered an in world group posting + a forum posting.
Shep Titian: kk
Pip Torok: second
Callipygian Christensen: I would suggest attaching a timeframe of 14 days or something
Anna Toussaint: yes
Beathan Vale: I thnk that is a SC issue not a RA one
Beathan Vale: unless we pass a notification statute
Anna Toussaint: may I amend my motion?
Shep Titian: Yes Anna
Beathan Vale: in which case -- we would have passed the notification statute without notice -- not a great way to start
Anna Toussaint: the motion would be that which I said plus "and that a two week time frame be allowed before each law goes into effect"
Anna Toussaint: hehe
Rosie Gray: ?
Shep Titian: Well no Beathan as its for us to do not them
Callipygian Christensen: /e waves her hand yet again
Pip Torok: i second the amended motion
Beathan Vale: Point of ORder -- procedural motions should apply only to the sitting session of the RA; governance issues should be by statute, not motion
Shep Titian: Vote
Shep Titian: Aye
Callipygian Christensen waves her hand
Pip Torok: aye
Anna Toussaint: aye
Anna Toussaint: beathan has a good point, though
Shep Titian: Calli
Beathan Vale: nay -- but only because I think this is an ultra vires issue as presented; I support the principle and think we should pass an appropriate statute after proper process
Callipygian Christensen: This isnt just about laws going into effect and adding reference to laws isnt needed
Callipygian Christensen: this is about ANY official notification to the popuace
Beathan Vale: Let's put this on the agenda for next session and prepare a proper statute. I can work with Calli and others to put it together
Shep Titian: Well by my calculation it passed .. so maybe next meeting we can repeal it
Soro Dagostino: RL calls.
Shep Titian: Bye Soro
Anna Toussaint: I kinda agree with Beathan
Anna Toussaint: for now, it did pass
Anna Toussaint: but lets replace it with a better thought out statute
Callipygian Christensen suggests you readress it now and follow Beathan's suggestion
Shep Titian: So we'll take it to the forum and refine it if that's ok?
Pip Torok: agrees
Anna Toussaint: it has the force of a procedural thing
Anna Toussaint: it applies to us this session
Anna Toussaint: we can work under the motion until we do as beathan has suggested
Anna Toussaint: Hi, Lili
Anna Toussaint: Lil
Shep Titian: But we are'nt doing anything today that needs citizen notification
Lilith Ivory: Hi Anna
Lilith Ivory: Hi everybody
Callipygian Christensen: Please consider readdressing it now so that we can save the SC and yourselves a lot of time
Shep Titian: Hi Lilith
Anna Toussaint: why are we saving the SC a lot of time?
Callipygian Christensen: I suspect if you leave it as is 'just for now' it will be flagged
Shep Titian: Beathan you want to propose a different version?
Rosie Gray laughs
Beathan Vale: Because the SC will have to consider whether it was proper -- probably invalidate it -- and then we will repass it next session anyway
Anna Toussaint: which means, Calli, that you will flag it?
Callipygian Christensen pints to what Beathan said
Anna Toussaint: and why is it improper?
Beathan Vale: Otherwise we have the precedent of motions that might have statutory effect -- which would be a mess
Shep Titian: Hmmm interesting
Beathan Vale: I move we rescind the motion and substitute a motion that we will prepare a statute for consideration next time
Anna Toussaint: I second
Shep Titian: Vote
