Moderator: SC Moderators
I found this item to really bother me.
Discussion .... Should CDS end it's experiment .. and give our reserves to charity?? A suggestion made to me .. I won't disclose by whom .... but I thought it worth putting it out there ...
I really hate mind games being a simple soldier. The question is who is behind that statement?
Ranma --
As a member of the RA, I can say that that issue came on (at least to me) out of the blue. The first time I saw the point (or even heard discussion of it) was on the proposed agenda. I don't think that Shep's including it on the agenda is an indication that the sky is falling. Rather, someone raised it -- and whoever that is probably wants to remain anonymous because they realize how much the proposal will upset people -- and Shep thought it was worth discussing. I agree that dissolution, along with just about everything else, is worth discussing -- but that does not mean it is worth doing.
That said, SL is an old platform and is becoming increasingly burdened by its own obsolescence. I think that the CDS should continue. We should not dissolve and donate the proceeds to charity. However, we should consider an exit strategy from SL if that becomes necessary. That means looking for alternative platforms to which we can migrate.
This can and should be informed by the on-again/off-again discussion we are having about what we are (the "mission" discussion -- although I don't like that term). Once we define that, we can determine what alternative platforms might work for us.
Such a move is traumatic. I am a longtime MMOG player. I have been in online groups (guilds) that have migrated from one MMOG to another. There is always loss and hardship. Some people don't make the trip. Sometimes (although I think this is a mistake), the group dilutes itself by trying to maintain its old location (old MMOG) while simultaneously expanding to a new one. However, in almost all cases, the group has survived the move and thrived in the new MMOG, even if the old MMOG died.
Beathan Vale
I just do not like secret proposals, if it is important enough to be brought up in the RA. The sponsor should be named and they should be proud to have their name on it.
Ranma Tardis wrote:I just do not like secret proposals, if it is important enough to be brought up in the RA. The sponsor should be named and they should be proud to have their name on it.
That is a good point. However, I am not sure that the merits of an idea depend on, or even relate to, the person proposing it (as a general rule). We can consider most proposals adequately even if we don't know the proponent.
That said, some proposals are suspect and by their nature suggest an ulterior motive. That is hard to assess if the proponent is anonymous. However, if a proposal is suspect in that way and the proponent is secret, then we have grounds on that basis alone to reject it, so it does not really present a danger.
Beathan
Ranma Tardis wrote:I just do not like secret proposals, if it is important enough to be brought up in the RA. The sponsor should be named and they should be proud to have their name on it.
I respectfully disagree, Ranma.
One clear reason for anonymity is to enable discussion to centre around the issue itself, not around the virtues of whoever dared bring it up. Sometimes, in fact often!, such issues need to be squared up to, no matter how disquieting they might be, and whenever they present themselves.
There is, in addition, a clear motive, an elephant in the room : C.D.S., like other sims, and indeed Linden Labs itself, is in the doldrums.
And, even clearer (to me at least) are the causes : economic malaise around the RL world in general, compounded in the United States by uncertainties that tend to result in people keeping a close eye on their money.
But here's how I see it : if we suffer from an over-supply of vacant lots, just look at the state of the general run of estates! The only exception I note is that of Caledon, clearly a special case. Our finances are sound and thoroughly overseen.
The one thing we offer is the invitation to share in a demonstrably successful exercise in self-governance, and that, to my mind, is what we should push. We are a democracy, and rightly proud to be.
I notice that in RL far too many people in a "democratic country" have no part in experiencing the workings of democracy face-to-face. It involves working out what you want, how you put it forward, whether and to what extent you compromise, and, most important, a comparable respect for others' differing opinions and wish to put them forward. Now there's a trumpet for C.D.S. to blow!
I'll stop at this point, Ranma, with just two parting shots : one: this discussion took place in an RA meeting, and so should be written-up in the usual way. I hope this gets done.
And two? : we both wear the same blue mandala, Ranma! Don't we have good taste! 
Pip Torok
Even Caledon is not what it use to be with so many sims being homesteads. I was able to get my old lots back in Caledon II. What you must remember is Desmond is my oldest friend in SL.
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pat, please do the courtesy of deleting your quote and your reply, then i'll delete this too.
Rose Springvale wrote:I have been away most of the summer but am disturbed to come back here and find that I am still being slandered by Ranma on CDS forums. The information she has alluded to here is untrue and I respectfully request the moderators to remove her post, or redact all references to me. The project was not CDS, there was no "game" and this has no place whatsoever in the CDS forums.
Thank you.
I doubt whether anyone is that much interested but... I don't agree that her post should be removed or redacted. Dispute the facts by all means but let's preserve a commitment to free speech.
delete
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Ranma ... someone said those words to me ... and I thought why not see if other people think the same .. it was said to me in conversation not as a proposal, so I feel it fair to keep them anonymous.. simple as that..........
Discussion .... Should CDS end it's experiment .. and give our reserves to charity?? A suggestion made to me .. I won't disclose by whom .... but I thought it worth putting it out there ...
Please note the first word .. discussion .. there is no plan . and whatever you have experienced before was before my time and I have no view on it . all I know is that CDS needs discussion or it will seep away .. and not all ideas will be pain free ...
This is a message to whoever is meant to be modding this forum... I note that Rose has been posting here a few days now under the tile LRA .. I would appreciate that being dealt with.. thank you...
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Oh I understand Shep but think SL is in more trouble than our community. Lets do not worry about this my friend. If you want discussion would think an open town hall would be better.
I haven’t been in-world or online much since August 21st due to personal events, good ones but ones that didn’t allow me much access to the internet. So now I will contribute my two cents into this discussion.
Shep wrote:
Please note the first word .. discussion .. there is no plan . and whatever you have experienced before was before my time and I have no view on it . all I know is that CDS needs discussion or it will seep away .. and not all ideas will be pain free ...
First I’d like to thank Shep for clarifying in her post that this was just a discussion, something that was said to her in passing that she thought would be interesting to get some feedback from other citizens. My only criticism is the choice of venue to bring up the discussion. The atmosphere of an RA meeting is very formal when compared to a venue such as a town hall meeting. Being that the discussion has already taken place I see no reason to argue the point of venue but I did want to let my opinion known. I have to disagree with Ranma and Beathan, respectively of course, to refer to this “discussion” as a “proposal.”
Ranma you have been involved actively and non-actively with the CDS since 2006. I thank you and respect what you have done for the CDS. With that being said I have to admit I cringed when I read your post that started this discussion. We, the citizens of the CDS, will never be able to move forward if we continue to dig up the past. By bringing Rose up in your discussion and making the statements you made you plant negative seeds into someone’s mind that has never met Rose, Shep being a prime example. No one should be prejudged based on the opinion of another person. Let the individual decide whether they like or dislike a fellow individual. If one person asks for the opinion of another person on a particular individual, well that’s different.
Pip I like your explanation for the reason for anonymity, you nailed it. To many times when someone brings an issue to the table, people are too worried trying to figure out the motive of the person presenting the issue than the actual contents of the issue.
While I agree with you and others that many estates across the grid are experiencing a downturn in population I don’t agree with the doom and gloom scenarios some people seem to believe in regards to the state of affairs of Linden Labs and Second Life. I use a few sources to keep up-to-date on issues concerning SL.
One of those sites is www.metaverse-business.com. Granted not all their content is current but they do maintain a current listing of the number of regions on the Second Life Grid. Here is the monthly history. http://www.metaverse-business.com/regionmonth.php
New World Notes, a blog published by Wagner James Au is another great source of information. One of my favorite posts on this site is the monthly Top 50 Most Popular Second Life Sims published on a monthly basis. Even though this same info can be found from metaverse-business, NWN gives it a friendlier, easier to read presentation.
Pip wrote
The one thing we offer is the invitation to share in a demonstrably successful exercise in self-governance, and that, to my mind, is what we should push. We are a democracy, and rightly proud to be.
Pip wrote
I notice that in RL far too many people in a "democratic country" have no part in experiencing the workings of democracy face-to-face. It involves working out what you want, how you put it forward, whether and to what extent you compromise, and, most important, a comparable respect for others' differing opinions and wish to put them forward. Now there's a trumpet for C.D.S. to blow!
We offer one other thing that goes right along with our invitation to share in a demonstrably successful exercise in self-governance and that is the fact that all citizens own their land in the CDS. Each and every one of us has a personal stake in the success or failure of our community. There isn’t a single individual in our community who is filling their personal bank account with our tier payments. In my explorations in SL over the past two years I haven’t seen another estate that has this feature. Every other community to the best of my knowledge relies on an individual or a small group of individuals to be financially responsible for their sims. If the sims are profitable they win and if the sims are losing money than they are taking money out of their personal bank accounts to cover expenses or just plain shutting things down.
I have to wonder if in a screwed up way that may be one of the reasons for the lack of participation in-world or even offline in our community. We all may have a personal stake in this community but none of us have a financial stake in this community. Our real lives don’t have a personal financial connection to the CDS. Food doesn’t disappear from our tables if we lose money, electric doesn’t get turned off because we paid our tier to LL instead. I know personally that if I relied on something to put food on my table I would be involved with it a lot more than if I wasn’t.
The democracy aspect of our community is what made the headlines back in the day. Where has it gotten us since then? Honestly not very far. I am not saying we need to do away with our democracy but I am suggesting that we focus on other aspects, mainly our community, and let our democracy take care of itself. If it isn’t broken than why do we insist on continuing tinkering with it. Some very interesting discussions have been written about the CDS and its democracy.
http://www.johncartermcknight.com/blog/
The link above is to the avatar Kaseido Quandry’s blog site. Mr. McKnight did a dissertation about the governance of communities in virtual worlds. Here is the about me section from Mr. McKnight.
I’m a fourth-year PhD candidate at Arizona State University, where my research focuses on emergent governance in online communities. My website includes information on my publications, conference and media appearances, teaching, and more.
I also maintain a more casual gameplay blog at CombatAnthropologist.
The two links below are to John’s site and to the 15 topics that appear when you do a search for the CDS on his blog site. I found the articles at the end of the page, the page is sorted by newest post first, as very interesting reading. I have to get ready for school now but I will post some more thoughts when I get the chance.
http://www.johncartermcknight.com/blog/?tag=cds
Thank you,
Trebor
Trebor,
I think you are right, my bringing up a past that is best left forgotten is wrong. What ills has she done to me?
I give my humble apology to Rose. I should not let emotion get the best of me. Will you forgive me?
Lets move forward. Lets turn around from looking at the past and look to our future.
Ranma