CSDF General Meeting 5 Oct 3pm - Transcript

Patroklus Murakami · Post by **Patroklus Murakami** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:39 pm

The next General Meeting of the CSDF will be on [b:2vkwh17p]Thursday 5 Oct at 3pm[/b:2vkwh17p].

Location: [b:2vkwh17p]Pat's Country Home[/b:2vkwh17p] on the Lowland Road, (Neufreistadt 123, 33)

Please add suggested agenda items to my preliminary list by posting on the forums.

[b:2vkwh17p]Agenda[/b:2vkwh17p]
[list:2vkwh17p]1. Welcome to new members

2. Realising the CSDF Programme. How can we progress more of our programme from the last election?

3. Day/time of meetings. Can we we discuss an alternative day of the week/time for General Meetings?

4. Any other business[/list:u:2vkwh17p]

This is an open meeting so all are welcome to attend

Patroklus Murakami · Post by **Patroklus Murakami** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:51 am

[color=Black:2asr0cqv][i:2asr0cqv]Object-Name: notetaker 2.0.1[/i:2asr0cqv][/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Sienna:2asr0cqv][i:2asr0cqv]Region: Neufreistadt (246528, 249600)[/i:2asr0cqv][/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2asr0cqv][i:2asr0cqv]Local-Position: (134, 8, 125)[/i:2asr0cqv][/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkGreen:2asr0cqv][i:2asr0cqv]Meeting on 2006-10-05[/i:2asr0cqv][/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Those present[/b:2asr0cqv]: [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][i:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami is in the chair.[/i:2asr0cqv][/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][i:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.[/i:2asr0cqv][/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: recording[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][i:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.[/i:2asr0cqv][/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkRed:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ranma Tardis[/b:2asr0cqv]: the meetings are set not to allow participation by citizens in north america nevermind Hawaii[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkRed:2asr0cqv][i:2asr0cqv]Ranma Tardis has indicated consent to be recorded.[/i:2asr0cqv][/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: agenda for todays' meeting: Unknown Avatar: 1. welcome to new members [15:01] Unknown Avatar: 2. getting our programme through [15:01] Unknown Avatar: 3. date and time of meetings [15:02] Unknown Avatar: 4. any other business[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: Welcome![/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: but you can propose a bill, and you can organize a petition to support the bill[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: shall we add judiciary after programme? for twenty mins max?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: sure [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: agreed[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: Please.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][i:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami waits for ranma[/i:2asr0cqv][/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkRed:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ranma Tardis[/b:2asr0cqv]: well I urge both of you not to change it. I do not see why ashcroft is in such a hurry to change the form of our goverment with such a major rewriting of the consitution[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: can we take that as new item 3 then? after our discussion about our programme?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkRed:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ranma Tardis[/b:2asr0cqv]: sure[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: please pat [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: k. item 1. new members. none this week so... item 2![/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: lol[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: Hi Ashcroft[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Olive:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:2asr0cqv]: Hello [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: hello.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: there's a notecard with our programme in it in the notecared giver[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Olive:2asr0cqv][i:2asr0cqv]Ashcroft Burnham has indicated consent to be recorded.[/i:2asr0cqv][/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: and hi ashcroft[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: ah good thinking Pat [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: and hi Ash [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Olive:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:2asr0cqv]: Gwyn invited me [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][i:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.[/i:2asr0cqv][/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Olive:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:2asr0cqv]: Hello everyone.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: ii suggest we take each point in turn, discarding the points that have alreadly been achieved[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Olive:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:2asr0cqv]: Gwyn says that you're discussin ghte judiciary?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Olive:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:2asr0cqv]: I must say, I can't stay long - bed time and all that...[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: We will, after we discuss the political programme of the CSDF[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: we are ash, after discussin our programme and how to get it implemented[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: We have added it later in the adgenda..[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Olive:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:2asr0cqv]: Hmm... I may not be around that long, I'm afraid [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Olive:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:2asr0cqv]: I'll stay here inactive and post on the forums for as long as I was planning to do, and Gwyn can IM me if you discus the judiciary.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: I will, I will.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Olive:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:2asr0cqv]: But I'm afraid that I'll have to go to bed before too long: I'm very tired.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: nods, np at all Ash[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: well, i'd like to stick to this order. our programme must be discussed and has been sidelined more recently[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: yes Pat, we must[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: it has really been delayed a lot[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: yes, I very much agree.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: ok, first point was expansion. where do u feel we are with that? do we need to discuss this?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: It is very important that we re-focus our efforts on it.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkRed:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ranma Tardis[/b:2asr0cqv]: still dont know how cn will fit into the goverment[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: I think we are doing that one.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: yes, Ranma, #2 of the 9-point prgramme[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: well, Pat, expansion is being covered by franchs[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkRed:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ranma Tardis[/b:2asr0cqv]: will they send repasentivies to the RA?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: I think so as well. #1 is being covered with the franchulates, the Burghs, etc[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: yes, cn is part of neufreistadt[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: and we are discussing also our other proposal for burghs[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: or the larger cds if you wll[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: *will[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkRed:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ranma Tardis[/b:2asr0cqv]: that is not the same thing[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: Ranma, our program is that CN would not have it's own government.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: Indeed.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkRed:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ranma Tardis[/b:2asr0cqv]: right this is good[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: It'll have a way to select representatives in the RA[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: so, we're making progress on 1 (or rather the SPC is)[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: but "one government, many sims" is our motto [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: Indeed[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkRed:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ranma Tardis[/b:2asr0cqv]: yes I agree[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: yes[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: I think we did 3. More or less.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: Agreed, Pat. At this moment, I think taht we have #1 rather well covered, except perhaps for promotion, embassies, etc[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: how about 2. confederation v republic. there have been furhter thoughts here, particularly moon' email on burghs'[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: ye sindeed[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: question is[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][i:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with Jon. Yes. Done, although not exactly in the best way.[/i:2asr0cqv][/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: *sigh* @ #2[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: is easy to define republic while we're talking CDS islands+franchs[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: Very hard on burghs, yes.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: i think we have done 3 and 4 so let's stick with 2 for now[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: Ok Pat.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][i:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle nods[/i:2asr0cqv][/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: but burghs will ask us to define the upper structure[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: so...[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: Well, I think we need to make some space for both kinds of expansion. I can see the possibility of groups who already exist wanting to keep some of their autonomy.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: yes indeed Jon[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: The question I have on burghs is: what if they have no intention of being democratic? [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: aha, lol[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: hehe, good qn gwyn[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: Its a very good questio.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: Will be promote something like the UN, or more like the EU (where all member states are democracies)?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: Pat, better set time on this one [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: I think we should not accept that[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkRed:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ranma Tardis[/b:2asr0cqv]: but if they keep their autonomy, they should not be able to have a full voice[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: twenty minutes?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: ok, Pat [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][i:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle nods[/i:2asr0cqv][/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkRed:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ranma Tardis[/b:2asr0cqv]: they can direct what happens in neu and cn but the opposite is not true[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: is this a solution in search of a problem? again? who would these 'burghs' be? who are we contemplating joining up with?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: and why don't we ask 'them' what 'they' want from a supranational body?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: well, to answer pat - maybe they aren't such groups as for now ... but maybe because they would think that they would have to follow the CDS model[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: ... with Celadon [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: I saw Burghs as a way to bring new democracies into existance. That is even if their origin (and perhaps some aspects remain) commercial, we could still extend a democratic society that way.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: indeed Jon[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: you can after all uh 'incentivate' democratic procedures[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: Ok Jon ? so it would be "educational" in purpose as well. "Remain autonomous, become democratic"[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: The model that I am interested in is a land barron who is willing to get democratic groups started.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: even if they are only 'whoever has a sword can vote' [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: Agreed[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: why are ppl obsessed with caledon? it's a pretty set of sims with some really cool ppl and a junior league land baron[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: and lol Moon ? yes that's democratic too, if swords are freely available.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: haha Pat[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: what teh hell as it got to do with us?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: lol Pat [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: It's a similar reasoning we use to talk about, say, Prokofy Neva [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: Ah, as George Fox was saying [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: hmmm, anyway[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: i'm serious, is that who we're thinking of here?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: i feel that most ofr all of us feel that this could expad the number of democracies in SL[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkRed:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ranma Tardis[/b:2asr0cqv]: dont see the advantage of Burghs and how it will benifit the citizens of the CDS[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: and Pat, i am thinking that linden sim...[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: Ranma: is very simple[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: atm we are a speck in a map[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: or two specks [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: we are teh exception[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: we are trying to think on a way how to make us not so much teh exception[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkRed:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ranma Tardis[/b:2asr0cqv]: it is not size that matters but quality[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: the advanatges are clear - tehy are exactly teh same of having 50 citizens n NFS instead of 5[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: Ranma, true, but we want to make true democracy an option for everyone.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: damn straight ranma [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: with 50 citizens, you can do a lot more things[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkRed:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ranma Tardis[/b:2asr0cqv]: I am upset with our current consitution, it is flawed[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: and i agree with Jon[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: Pat, are you are no longer as much in favor of item 1 on our platform?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: aren't you worried that, having designed complex governmental structures for ourselves, we would be designing yet more government for democratic sims that *don't even exist yet*![/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: if the CSDF is a democratic party, it's becuase its members believe that democracy is a suprior political system[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: and one that benefits everyone[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: agrees with Moon on that.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: so... keeping it only for ourselves is a bit ungenerous [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkRed:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ranma Tardis[/b:2asr0cqv]: yes and now the ra can do ANYTHING as long as it gets 4 votes[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: item 1 = CN and more sims, expansion one at a time. item 2 = opposition to a confederation. now you suggest reversing that![/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][i:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*[/i:2asr0cqv][/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][i:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn is lost.[/i:2asr0cqv][/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: Pat, i think this is a model in which we can think on in a sedate matter - and that is why also i asked for time on this[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][i:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami wonders why gwyn is puzzled[/i:2asr0cqv][/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: nah, problem is that 'confederation' doesn't describe neither what we are, neither what the DPU wanted us to be [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: the DPU model was a federative one[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: Pat, you were to one suggesting more than one sim a year at one point. I am worried that we are just circling the waggons, afraid of the outside world. Not trying to figure out how to put in proper safegards, but really avoiding contact alltogether.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkRed:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ranma Tardis[/b:2asr0cqv]: our own consitution lacks proper "safeguards" why is this any better?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: well, that's a fair point. it is too easy to become inward looking with our own sim, our own set of issues and a tight community[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: my question is: what if someone one day comes and tells us: we'd like to join our island to the CDS, but we don't want your political model?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: i guess my main problem with this is - is this really the best use of our energies right now?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: Pat: this is something for people to think about[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: so that we can have a model in time[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: i wouldn't have too much trouble with an extended, low-level debate but there's no rush here, is there?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: Well, we just spent months on a judiciary bill. Perhaps we can spend a week on this?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkRed:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ranma Tardis[/b:2asr0cqv]: a week to decide the course of the nation?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: i think the time spend on the judiciary bill was well spent but hush... you'll wake up ash![/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: we should take longer than a week to discuss this[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: And yes, I do think we need to have standards. For example, I do think we need to insist on one person, one vote, in the political sphere.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: Pat: that is why we have set this on now - so that we can take more than week to think on this[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: instead of whenver anyone calls on us for that... maybe then we will have only one week [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: Yes [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: ithese things have a life of their own thought. for me it's a question of priorities. after so much constl tinkering i'm in the mood for some fun![/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: but i also think that this is something that can be carried in mail discussion [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: five more minutes on this folks, then we move on[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: so what about forum discussion?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: in addition to email? or replaced by it?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: hmmm, ok by me[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: I think in addition[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][i:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant listens to Jon[/i:2asr0cqv][/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: the advantage of the email is that we can bang out proposals among ourselves.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: and then when ready have good arguments to support our proposals.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: ah yes, this isn't really even a proposal yet[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkRed:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ranma Tardis[/b:2asr0cqv]: phone will be afk for a bit[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: it is a thought by now [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: i don't see it being 'party political' though. unless the dpu are deeply wedded to the idea of a federation[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: Hmm I think they are.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: hmmm, it was what they had proposed[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: yes, I would agree with that.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: Indeed, Claude was rather adamant on it, even if their model needs to have its flaws ironed out...[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: and of course we stick that NFS+CN+Franchs ARE a republic [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: their 'big idea', for when we have five sims! c 2008 LOL[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: yes lol[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: moving on...[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: of coruse, models for representativity must be discussed[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: but sure .)[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: shall we discuss item 5 from our programme? culture, arts, education?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: two CSDF victories in 3 and 4![/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: Ok...[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: I am interested in addressing #5, I think it has become pressing. Without us really expecting it to.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][i:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant hums the Internationale[/i:2asr0cqv][/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][i:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle laughs[/i:2asr0cqv][/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: yes moon, we should celebrate those victories[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: and yes, Jon, you are very right[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][i:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle smiles[/i:2asr0cqv][/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: go on jon[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][i:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant listens to Jon[/i:2asr0cqv][/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: Well, suddenly we are in the business of creating sims. Hopefully many more sims.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: We certanly seem to be able to attract people to move on to them[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: Hopefully, yes [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: But we need people with the skills to plan and build them.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: yes indeed[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: We are feeling that pinch with CN, for example.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: indeed[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: And this is something that I would like to see us meet by investing in our own population, rather than more of it being contracted to outside craftspeople.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: yes, some lack of "volunteers" *coughs*[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: And hear hear, Jon.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: well, i guess this was where the guild was supposed to function?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: So if we really do want to grow sim by sim, we need to provide a way for people to become master builders.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: recruit citizens as apprentices[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: we have all the advanatge in training people inside our own community - even if they later on move and start their own[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: Ah, I do not think there is much of the guild to function.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: train them up to become journeymen and then eventually masters[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: Hmm[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: Now that Pat raised it, I was thinking the same thing.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: well, Jon has quite another idea [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: well, why not? why doesn't that system work?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: Perhaps this is the incentive we have to give the Guild a purpose after all?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: is it because it's too medieval?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: what other structure/school do you propose jon?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: i think teh guild was very much too busy most of teh time to really pursue teh educative part[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: Its a very good question. Well, I know that you and I, Pat, both applied for apprenticeships and were turned down.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: Ok, that is a good argument. Yes.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: well, fobbed off or discourated maybe[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: i haven't tried agains since[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: maybe we should?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: I am proposing that people learn as part of work on new sims for one.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: "reform from within"?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: listens to both of you[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: The idea is that our master builders would serve as mentors and cirteqe work of student builders.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkRed:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ranma Tardis[/b:2asr0cqv]: back[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: wb ranma [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: So instead of building quite so much, Moon and Sudane would look at and help others to build public buildings and such.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: lol, and i am not even in the guild [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: wb ranma we're discussing point 5 of our programme. culture, arts, education[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: Also along with this, get the reading groups going so we can help people learn the background and methods of good design.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: jon, what you're describing sounds very much like what the guild 'ought' to be[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: Indeed, perhaps, but do you think it is not working because of the persons involved, or because of organization, or because of how they recognize skills?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: All of the above [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][i:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle nods and agrees with Gwyn[/i:2asr0cqv][/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: i don't think it's workign because the very idea is a corporatist abomination[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: In retrospective, Jon, I think you've summarised in an excellent way of what exactly the Guild *should* be.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: lol, hera hear ![/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: but it is 'our' corporatist abomination[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: LOL Pat[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: So I think we can either try to greatly reform the guild, or start a new school for design to fill this function.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][i:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant hums the Internationale again [/i:2asr0cqv][/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: so should we seek to refrom it in the way you outline or seek to abolish and create something new?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: Ah[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: I have been going on the assumption that we need to start something new. However, I could be convinced otherwise if I saw more life in the existing organization.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: Well, actually, it's kind of funny abolishing the Guild and setting up Guild II side-by-side[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: well, i daresay create a new one[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: and my reasoning is[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: the Guild as it is, still has governamental functions[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: i think the guild would be fine if we had people involved in it and it lost its' governmental functions[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][i:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant listens to Pat[/i:2asr0cqv][/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: perhaps that should be *could* be fine[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: So actually what you suggest, Jon, is something else... shutting down the Guild as a governmental branch,[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: pat, sure. But lets start with the fact that it really does not even include Moon, who is surely one of our master architects.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: and creating a "reformed Guild" which is NOT a branch of government?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkRed:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ranma Tardis[/b:2asr0cqv]: what is the point?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: I would agree with that.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: well, technically i am a journeyman [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: Ok, can I ask why?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: raised to that by Ulrika herself![/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: I mean, what do we gain from that?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: And lol Moon, yes indeed [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkRed:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ranma Tardis[/b:2asr0cqv]: if not a part of the goverment they need to form by theselves[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkOrange:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Moon Adamant[/b:2asr0cqv]: brb[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: Yes, that seems clear, Ranma[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: And also, I would perhaps like that to happen as well ? it would be "less" a Guild (in the sense of a medieval trade union) and more a School.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkRed:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ranma Tardis[/b:2asr0cqv]: ah so![/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: i'm tempted to reapply to join the Guild - as a Master![/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: Gwyn, I certanly agree with that.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: And it seems obvious that a "school" should not exactly be a "power of government"[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: However,[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: if we want to suggest that to the RA, and discuss publicly,[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkRed:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ranma Tardis[/b:2asr0cqv]: why does the ra need to do anything?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: we need to address many issues first. #1 What happens to the Guild as it stands?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Indigo:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Jon Seattle[/b:2asr0cqv]: Gwyn, however, this is part of our function if as a government we insist on setting up new sims.[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkRed:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ranma Tardis[/b:2asr0cqv]: yes[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: #2 Who will provide the checks and balances that the Guild currently has?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkRed:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ranma Tardis[/b:2asr0cqv]: who is doing that now?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: The Guild is, Ranma [/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkRed:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ranma Tardis[/b:2asr0cqv]: it was disolved[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2asr0cqv]: Not at all!!![/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=DarkRed:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Ranma Tardis[/b:2asr0cqv]: a guild of one?[/color:2asr0cqv]
[color=Navy:2asr0cqv][b:2asr0cqv]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2asr0cqv]: no, the guild is still there. and the GM still has powers under the constn[/color:2asr0cqv]

Patroklus Murakami · Post by **Patroklus Murakami** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:51 am

[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Well Ranma,[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: so the problem of abolishing the guild without introducing compensating checks and balances remains[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: we lived with a Guild of One for a looong time ? LOL[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: and an SC of One.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkRed:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ranma Tardis[/b:kzixpw95]: i do not favor abolishing the guild at this time[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: And yes, Pat. That is what I meant[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: If we abolish the guild at all ? instead of reforming it,[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: (laughs) well, we were lucky in both cases.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: back[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: it is our duty to consider what powers, checks and balances are going to be lost in the process,[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: and how they will be reassigned.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: indeed, correct[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: yes, Jon, indeed we were...[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: ... but we can't trust on luck [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: yes[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: What offical powers should the guild have?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: the natural place for those powers to go is to the exec. but we need to wait until the Chancellor positoin has proved its worth before then[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: a model in which you depend the person who takes teh role to be good is not a good model[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: i agree Pat[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkRed:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ranma Tardis[/b:kzixpw95]: i disagree, too much power to the ra[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: The power to veto the budget, in the Executive? Hmm... [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: It seems to me that really "powers" are not the point of a school.. other than teaching and learning.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: I totally agree on that, Jon.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: definetely not, i agree as well[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: However, as Pat said, the corporativistic model of the Guild was simply that all builders/creative artists are under the same roof, so to speak,[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: ah[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: and this "same roof" has powers i government.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: yes jon, the guild is a kind of odd hybrid mash up of medieval guild, workers' soviet and executive branch[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: *in[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: So, (laughs) send those powers elsewhere. But where?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Indeed Pat![/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: yes, where?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: but i also oppose that that should be consecrated in Constitution[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: pat, lol[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: well, Pat is right - they belong with the Exec[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: this leads us back to the need for further constl revision and the need to abolish the guild[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: but i agree with him that the Exec must first of all prove that it is a functional structure[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: yes indeed [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][i:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle nods[/i:kzixpw95][/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: and also to Citizens' Associations[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: points 6 and 7 from our programme[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: I'll reserve further thoughts on empowering the Exec even more after the discussion of 6 and 7...[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: well, he have half a vctory in 6 as well [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: In the sense that the Guild is slowly losing power, yes[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: or should i say, 1/4 of a victory, since the DPU also wanted the Guild off [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: hehe yes, a shared victory [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: well, but that is good[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: But that's just an aspect of it.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: we do, and i really must set up the marketplatz traders' association i've been meaning to[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: No planning festival yet,[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkRed:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ranma Tardis[/b:kzixpw95]: I do not agree[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: we do NOT advocate stampeding reform, as appears to be a common notion [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: Actually I want to say something more about 6.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][i:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant listens to Jon[/i:kzixpw95][/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: What don't you agree with, Ranma?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: One moment, I want to copy something here.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkRed:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ranma Tardis[/b:kzixpw95]: the changes are coming too fast and without ful comprenhension of what it means[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: do u mean the recent constl changes ranma?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Or the ones yet to come?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkRed:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ranma Tardis[/b:kzixpw95]: change for change sake is never a good thing[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: but we aren't doing change for change sake, Ranma[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][i:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle found the section of the amendment he wants to paste when ready[/i:kzixpw95][/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: we are addressing problems[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkRed:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ranma Tardis[/b:kzixpw95]: there were reasons why things were done in a certain way[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: Ranma[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: We're doing it because there is a project for growth, and a lack of participation of the citizens in major aspects of the government... we want to encourage both[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkRed:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ranma Tardis[/b:kzixpw95]: we are giving all power to the ra and the whim of voting[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: both parties that ran for last election proposed changes in the political system[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: ah, and btw[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: and many citizens have taken part in discussin these changes[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][i:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle agrees with Gwyn on that[/i:kzixpw95][/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: the power that the rA has is the power that it is given by universal suffrage[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: hehe. Every term, there is a different branch targetted as having "all the power". One year ago, it was the SC. Then it was the Guild. Now, it's the RA... [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: At least the RA is *elected*, Ranma.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: and the RA (*is* and elected body. we have a representaive democracy, not a direct one[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: yes[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkRed:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ranma Tardis[/b:kzixpw95]: well I always say democracy is two wolfs and a sheep voting on what to eat for dinner[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: hehe Ranma![/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: Anyway, #6[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: thing is Ranma[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: i like that definition ranma. so we need liberty as well[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Yes, the right not to be eaten [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: I wanted to point to something that is in the executive amendment passed by the RA[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][i:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami senses jon is impatient to return to the discussion at hand...[/i:kzixpw95][/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkRed:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ranma Tardis[/b:kzixpw95]: all need this, many times in history the majority has bullied the miniorities[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: you - as any citizen - are free to propose bills, and indeed amendments - for vote at the RA[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: let's clear this up first jon[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkRed:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ranma Tardis[/b:kzixpw95]: yes the one vote of the sheep?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][i:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle nods and listens[/i:kzixpw95][/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: two more mintues then it's back to the programme[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: the changes that have been taken place were either 1. part of the platforms of teh parties[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: in which citizens HAVE voted in[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: or 2. they were new proposals that addressed flaws in our political sys[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkRed:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ranma Tardis[/b:kzixpw95]: goverments need to protect the minority from the majority[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: the new proposals were discussed to a point that our original constitution wasn't even discussed[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: but which minorities are being hurt here?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: comkpromises were made by everyone[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkRed:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ranma Tardis[/b:kzixpw95]: are they?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: it was voted by unanmity[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: Ranma, yes, they are[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkRed:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ranma Tardis[/b:kzixpw95]: in a election that has questions about it[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: yes, they wre Ranma, as you can read on teh apprpriate threads[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: it was voted, i say again, by unanimity after TWO MONTHS of discussion[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: well, we will no doubt retun to this theme when we come back to the judiciary bill[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: We will indeed.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkRed:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ranma Tardis[/b:kzixpw95]: voted on in the middle of the night[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: can we return to discussin our programme now[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: please?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: please.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: yes pat, sorry[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkRed:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ranma Tardis[/b:kzixpw95]: go ahead, my position has been stated[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Ok, I think that on #6 the major issue is where the powers of the Guild will go.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: In any case, here is part of the executive bill:[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: 3. The Chancellor must provide for regular and active citizen participation and public review of any decision concerning land use or the aesthetic or functional environment.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: Given that that is now part of the consitiution[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: mm hmm[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: it seems to me if someone approached the Chancellor with a proposal..[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: for citizen particiaption that she could hardly refuse if it were well thought out and fair.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: That is very clever, Jon [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: This need not even be a partisan thing..[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: good idea jon[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: What about suggesting the planning festival to the *Chancellor* instead? [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][i:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant smiles at Jon [/i:kzixpw95][/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: Yes, exactly.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: That is indeed a most excellent idea, Jon, I like it very very much.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Approved unanimously [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: but Gwyn[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkRed:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ranma Tardis[/b:kzixpw95]: heh[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: What did Aliasi reply to the suggestion?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: The next thing, I suppose, is for us (me!) to get this organized.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: Planning Festival was suggested to the Chancellor already, on an informal basis, as was discussed here in a previous meeting[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: Ah, we have not put it to her as far as I know..[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Ok, what did Aliasi reply to that?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Oh?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][i:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn is confused now. Was it suggested, or not? [/i:kzixpw95][/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: oh, I did not know. What did she say?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][i:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*[/i:kzixpw95][/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Anyway,[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: we can RE-sggest it.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: lol, i had mentioned it![/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: I think we should.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: yes gwyn, good suggestion[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: who's going to do that?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Or a good re-suggestion. [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: yes, she found it an interesting idea - she likes to delegate[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][i:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn is not allowed to do any active suggestions anyway [/i:kzixpw95][/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Ok[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Moon, it seems you have already been in touch with her, soooo[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: but i agree that it shuld be put in a formal way, and organized[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: ... [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: whoa...[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: lol[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: well-volunteered[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: again this bad habit of volunteering others? [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: Yes, I think we need to form a non party-affiliated group to organize it.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Thank you so very much for that energetic and perfectly spontaneous volunteering, Moon![/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][i:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant taps her fingers on teh table[/i:kzixpw95][/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: haha[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: well, that's one concrete action from our meeting. that's good[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: Moon, is way too busy I think with CN..[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Yay! We should not over-stress us too much![/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: i'd like to wind up this discussion in ten minutes so we ahve time to discuss the judiciary. but we should come back to this next week? yes?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: That's a good point. So, what would the teps be?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: *steps[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: #1 Create a Planning festival group[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: Yes[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: #2 elect a Head of the Planning festival[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkRed:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ranma Tardis[/b:kzixpw95]: of course[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: #3 develop a list of items on an agenda[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: #4 approach Aliasi with a suggestion for a date[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: #5 post it on the forums[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: and ask for suggestions and ideas, and more volunteers[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: isn't this all going to have to wait until we have CN online? i mean 'who's going to do this?' won't it be teh same ppl doing CN?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Gah[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: could the planning festival occupy itself with Xmas?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Ok, postponed to the end of November.,[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: and btw, CN will have a Saturnalia too[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: Ah, a good idea.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: Oh, cool![/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: Hi Dnate[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Around the end of November, we will have still some weeks left to plan for the Winter holidays.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: hi dnate[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: well, it's just because it is a well-defined event - and something that has been an attraction of NFS[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Dnate, welcome.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: hiya Dnate .)[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: csdf meeitingin progress. you're welcome to join us[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Ok, if Our Beloved Leader doesn't want to add anything further, we'll postpone that to November, and can still talk a bit about #7 perhaps?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Green:kzixpw95][i:kzixpw95]Door: unlocked [/i:kzixpw95][/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Teal:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Double Doors[/b:kzixpw95]: unlocked[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Teal:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Double Doors[/b:kzixpw95]: unlocked[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Green:kzixpw95][i:kzixpw95]Door: unlocked [/i:kzixpw95][/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: I have *several* issues now with #7.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: I might, however, be afraid of the timing.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: actually i wanted to return to the guild breifly[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Agh[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Ok, Guild[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][i:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn presses the Guild button[/i:kzixpw95][/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: we're not clear about what we want to replace it and quite how[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Not at all. I agree.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: why don't we join the guild in the meantime[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: or seek to[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Or rather, we have stated in the programme that we wanted it "removed"[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: so that we can assess whether it is salvageable[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Ah[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: "the enemy within". Good good.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: ah, good idea Pat[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkRed:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ranma Tardis[/b:kzixpw95]: well you know my position on that and yes it is a good idea[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: lol[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: SunTzu would approve that [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Surely a Guild reform is as good as scrapping teh Guild? [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: lol, they will be surprised [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: well, i'm not really meaning as teh 'enemy within' but i'll take teh sun tzu refernece gladly[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: ok gwyn, point 7[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: Well, as I understand it, would we not join as apprentices and not have any vote?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkRed:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ranma Tardis[/b:kzixpw95]: hmmm a chinese person[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][i:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn is technically a Master of teh Guild for some unfathomable reason[/i:kzixpw95][/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: lol Gwyn, are you?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: i am going to apply as a master on the basis of my work on my house and design of furniture[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][i:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*[/i:kzixpw95][/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Don'0t ask my why I deserve that honour.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: i think moon should too and has a better claim than me![/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: as i said, i am technically a journeyman... but not even ure if that is recrded[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: sudane can only say 'no' after all [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: No, I thin that Sudane expelled everybody from teh Guild in the latest revision, and kept Claude (RA) and myself (SC) [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: So we are not a threat.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: hmmm, that is at the site, et me check[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Aliasi was a Guild member, but during their Public Insubordination Period she residned.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: *resigned[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkRed:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ranma Tardis[/b:kzixpw95]: well I seem to have no say in things[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: i'm ready to move on to point 7 whenever y'all are. i think we're decided on the guild now [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: http://neufreistadt.info/id21.html[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: join the Guild as well, Ranma [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: brb, need wine[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: corrct gwyn[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkRed:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ranma Tardis[/b:kzixpw95]: been rejected from everthing else[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: I'll gladly embrace you all under my Workshop and raise you all to Journeymen/women[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkRed:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ranma Tardis[/b:kzixpw95]: dont see the point[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: onle members of teh guild - Sudane, you and Claude[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Wine already, Pat? \[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: #7...[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: While Pat is gone for a bit,[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: I might add that Rudy has called for a Constitutional Convention[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: 6 citizens appeared,[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: one visitor[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][i:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant listens to Gwyn[/i:kzixpw95][/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: half of those (all present here today)[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: voted "no" on a further constitutional revision.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: I mean,[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: well, Gwyn[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: on a further constitutional *convention[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: but as i was commenting with you[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkRed:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ranma Tardis[/b:kzixpw95]: I was at work but would of voted yes[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Yes, I know you would, Ranma.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: that const convention was proposed for the approval of a model[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: back[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: wb you wine-lover, you I hope you share some with us, Pat [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: model which - if i may comment - would have implied far greater chanes to our sys than those that apparently are so offensive[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: changes*[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Oh yes, totally so.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Sooo[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: pinot grigio - mmmmm![/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Wow![/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][i:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn envies pat[/i:kzixpw95][/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: and so perhaps[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: we shoudl address Const Rev in another way[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: and instead of proposing polticla models[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: pinpoint issues and idscuss them[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle[/b:kzixpw95]: yes[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Ok. SO this will be a series of debates.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: We have listed a few under our programme.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: Pat had a very good proposal for it[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Aw. My apologies, Pat.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: I haven't read it [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: really? remind me. what have i been saying?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: lol, back in campaign days...[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][i:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn considers doing a search on way old emails from Pat and gives up[/i:kzixpw95][/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: don't you remember?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][i:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn drinks some Madeira instead [/i:kzixpw95][/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Moon, elucidate us.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Pat and I are slowly killing our braincells with alcohol [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: brain cells destroyed by drugs and alcohol, sorry[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: and me too [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: hmmm, i would have to look for it in mail box[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][i:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn reaches for nicotine next[/i:kzixpw95][/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][i:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle laughs[/i:kzixpw95][/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: We will have to found the JSDF now ... J for junkies...[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][i:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle is sitting in his office drinking water.[/i:kzixpw95][/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: so do we think we need *more* constitutional revision?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkOrange:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Moon Adamant[/b:kzixpw95]: i propose that we pass this on for next week, and meanwhile i'll retrieve it (someone please remember me!)[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: ok[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: One clear had in the middle of this group of dangerous addicts [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: And ok, Moon. I like the idea, for several reasons.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: that leaves us time to go on to the judiciary bill[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: FDirst, we could propose it as something sponsored by the CSDF,[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: but actually conducted by Rudy.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: What do you think?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: eh? what are we talking about?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: (not the Judiciary bill, but the Const. Revision, I mean)[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: a constl convention again?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Ok, ok. Let's discuss it next week.[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: hmm, maybe best[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][i:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn hushes now, after noticing taht we've skipped #8 and #9[/i:kzixpw95][/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: does someone want to wake up ash and tell him we're about to start discussing the judiciary[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Indigo:kzixpw95][i:kzixpw95]Jon Seattle sips more water[/i:kzixpw95][/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: I'm doing that....[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: (there'll be time for 8 and 9 next week gwyn)[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Olive:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:kzixpw95]: Gwyn tells me that we're going to discuss al things judicial?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Yep, she does indeed [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Olive:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:kzixpw95]: LOL! Who's with the Jessica Rabbit sound effect?[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: yup. off you go people![/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: Moi [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Olive:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:kzixpw95]: I thought as much [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: awww I'm I so obvious???[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Olive:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:kzixpw95]: Sort of [/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: *sigh*[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Navy:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Patroklus Murakami[/b:kzixpw95]: oops we lost dnate again[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=Olive:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:kzixpw95]: Hey, it's not a bad thing...[/color:kzixpw95]
[color=DarkSlateGray:kzixpw95][b:kzixpw95]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:kzixpw95]: So, how much money should the RA budget for the Judiciary? We need courthouses, too... [/color:kzixpw95]

Patroklus Murakami · Post by **Patroklus Murakami** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:52 am

[color=Navy:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Patroklus Murakami[/b:12wjue7g]: onward[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: (I'm just launching the conversation)[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Navy:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Patroklus Murakami[/b:12wjue7g]: ty gwyn[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkRed:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ranma Tardis[/b:12wjue7g]: this is silly, you need courtcases[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: hehe Ranma,[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: and not courthouses. I agree.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Indigo:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Jon Seattle[/b:12wjue7g]: Yes, very true Ranma[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: Well, first of all, we need a salary for the Chair of the JC and the judges.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Navy:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Patroklus Murakami[/b:12wjue7g]: we'll have em soon enough, just you wait and see [/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: L$1k/month each should suffice.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: (That is the standard, I believe).[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: Aye.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkOrange:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Moon Adamant[/b:12wjue7g]: that is, i believe, the standard civil service salary[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: That'd be a general monthly budget.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: Yes, that's why I picked it [/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: I explained to Ash once that there is an unfilled role in the SC, that was budgeted for and approved.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: Now, there'd need to be special procurement budgets for courthouses and other such things.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: It's the SC Archivist.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: Those would need to be approved by the RA on a case-by-case basis once they have been costed.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: The role was to record all previous comments and decisions of the SC in the past,[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: I would probably be able to convince my fellow SC members,[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: that this role will now be filled by the Chair of the JC[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Indigo:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Jon Seattle[/b:12wjue7g]: What are we discussing?[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: Thus, no need to deplete the treasury's coffers ? it was approved anyway, just never used.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: Technically, the Chair of the JC does not have the power to do SC archival (it's expressly prohibited). However, one could appoint the Chair of the JC as the SC Archivist, with just the one salary, if he's agreeable [/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Navy:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Patroklus Murakami[/b:12wjue7g]: i'm not sure. we seem to be skirting the elephant in the room [/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: I don't know, Jon, so I just wildly threw around the discussion the need for talking about the costs of teh Judiciary [/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: We're discussing judicial finance.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkOrange:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Moon Adamant[/b:12wjue7g]: btw, everyone - i must go and meet Sudane at CN shortly[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: awww[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: Dnate is back.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Navy:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Patroklus Murakami[/b:12wjue7g]: which was helpful to kick things off, but seems the SC ruling has made soem want to qn the whole idea again[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Navy:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Patroklus Murakami[/b:12wjue7g]: wb dnate[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Blue:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Dnate Mars[/b:12wjue7g]: yeah, but for how long this time :/[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: [/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: Anyway, Dnate, we're discussing the judiciary.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: And go on, Pat.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: Pat: those are only the people who wanted to question the whole thing in the first place, and would seize on any excuse.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: Surely you don't mean to remove the bill from being discussed from the RA???[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: This would cause a terrible precedent.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Navy:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Patroklus Murakami[/b:12wjue7g]: that was the cue for others to jump in i'm happy with the SC ruling and the attempts being made to find a compromise[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: The compromise is *very simple* [/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Navy:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Patroklus Murakami[/b:12wjue7g]: no gwyn, the bill shd not now be reversed in my opinion[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: Has everybody seen my latest draft on the boards dealing with the SC's ruling?[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: You see, if the bill was reversed, this would point to a very serious constitutional problem, where a rewriting suggestion of the SC created a de facto veto [/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Navy:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Patroklus Murakami[/b:12wjue7g]: seen but not read yet[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkOrange:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Moon Adamant[/b:12wjue7g]: not yet Ash... have been at CN [/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkRed:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ranma Tardis[/b:12wjue7g]: well there are other ways to vote, you do understand this?[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkOrange:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Moon Adamant[/b:12wjue7g]: indeed Gwyn[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: Other ways to vote?[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Navy:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Patroklus Murakami[/b:12wjue7g]: well the RA vote has to be on the issues the SC raised[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Navy:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Patroklus Murakami[/b:12wjue7g]: there's nothing else at stake here, is there?[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: The RA vote has to be mostly on the final rewording of the suggested changes.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: And nothing else. Indeed.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkOrange:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Moon Adamant[/b:12wjue7g]: yes indeed[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: I agree with Gwyn [/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: The rest of the bill is approved.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkOrange:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Moon Adamant[/b:12wjue7g]: citizens though[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: If teh RA wishes to *remove* it, it would need to draft a Judiciary Repulsion Act and approve that instead [/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: Repeal, not repulsion.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: :-0[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkOrange:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Moon Adamant[/b:12wjue7g]: indeed[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: [/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: yes, repeal, sorry[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: And I don't think that anybody in the RA is doing that any time soon. At least, I hope not [/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Indigo:12wjue7g][i:12wjue7g]Jon Seattle lol[/i:12wjue7g][/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Navy:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Patroklus Murakami[/b:12wjue7g]: which would be a bit odd as they passed it unanimously last week [/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: I'd be very angry indeed[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkOrange:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Moon Adamant[/b:12wjue7g]: exactly[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkOrange:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Moon Adamant[/b:12wjue7g]: though of course, we'll give due consideration to any piece of legislation that is proposed for voting[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: And certainly start impeachment procedures against anyone who introduced taht formally, for failing to consider democratic procedures seriously [/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: Quite![/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: [/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Navy:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Patroklus Murakami[/b:12wjue7g]: one interesting aspect has been the reaction from outside NFS[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: Well, as well as if there were *substantial rewritings* to the Act[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: Ah yes, I just IMed Ash an hour ago or so,[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: Prokofy is positively *scared* of Ascroft now [/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Navy:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Patroklus Murakami[/b:12wjue7g]: ash has publicised the development in SL business magazine and on one or two forums[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: He claims that Ash is a Linden Agent in disguise, planning to put the whole of Sl under "his" CDS [/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: lol[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Navy:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Patroklus Murakami[/b:12wjue7g]: good lord. run fo r the hills[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: LOL![/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: We +are* on the hills Pat [/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: If I'm a Linden agent in disguise, I didn't know it...[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: It must be a pretty good disguise if it's disguised even from me![/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkOrange:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Moon Adamant[/b:12wjue7g]: lol[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Indigo:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Jon Seattle[/b:12wjue7g]: Ah, but that is the wonderful thing about being a Lindon agent, you might never know.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: Anyway, making Provky scared is quite an honour [/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: LOL![/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: Hmm, are we a Bavarian sim, or a pre-1989 East German sim? [/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: lol[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Navy:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Patroklus Murakami[/b:12wjue7g]: depends....[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: oooh[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: On whether we're pre- or post-Ulriaka?[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: well, we're not advancing much.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: Ulrika, even...[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Navy:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Patroklus Murakami[/b:12wjue7g]: hehe, yes ash[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: oh my, Ashcroft! You're almost right on the spot there![/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkOrange:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Moon Adamant[/b:12wjue7g]: well... are we still in discussion?[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: LOL![/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkOrange:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Moon Adamant[/b:12wjue7g]: or can i go and meet Sudane? [/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Navy:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Patroklus Murakami[/b:12wjue7g]: well, this is not really going anywhere, is it?[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkRed:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ranma Tardis[/b:12wjue7g]: lets close this meeting[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: There is a compromise to be met next Saturday[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Indigo:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Jon Seattle[/b:12wjue7g]: seems not to be leading anywhere.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Navy:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Patroklus Murakami[/b:12wjue7g]: works for me[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: on the wording.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkOrange:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Moon Adamant[/b:12wjue7g]: oh, gwyn?[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: I mean on the way the final wording should stand.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkRed:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ranma Tardis[/b:12wjue7g]: I have said my peace and there is nothing more to be said[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: Just on those tiny bits.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkOrange:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Moon Adamant[/b:12wjue7g]: indeed Gwyn, surely the RA will discuss that[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: But I won't be there on Saturday, alas - I have a conference [/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: Well, "discuss" is one thing. "Compromise" before discussion is another[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: Ah well, Ash.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: You have posted your suggestion.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: I'd be very grateful if, if anybody has any issues, they could be posted on the forums this evening or to-morrow morning/afternoon.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkRed:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ranma Tardis[/b:12wjue7g]: well Ash you have made my decision for me[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: I sadly can't make any comments[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Navy:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Patroklus Murakami[/b:12wjue7g]: i'd be grateful for people's thoughts about day/time of future meetings on the forums please [/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkRed:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ranma Tardis[/b:12wjue7g]: I move that we adjourn[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: Fine by me...[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Navy:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Patroklus Murakami[/b:12wjue7g]: apart from that - same time next week everybody?[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Olive:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Ashcroft Burnham[/b:12wjue7g]: Gah! I didn't know that it was so late...[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: Sure, why not? [/color:12wjue7g]
[color=Indigo:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Jon Seattle[/b:12wjue7g]: Yes,[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkOrange:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Moon Adamant[/b:12wjue7g]: ah, so it is[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=DarkSlateGray:12wjue7g][b:12wjue7g]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:12wjue7g]: It is late indeed Ash, sorry about that.[/color:12wjue7g]
[color=SlateGray:12wjue7g][i:12wjue7g]The meeting closed at 16:56 Linden time.[/i:12wjue7g][/color:12wjue7g]

CDS Discussion

CSDF General Meeting 5 Oct 3pm - Transcript

CSDF General Meeting 5 Oct 3pm - Transcript

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