Colonia Nova Amphitheater...rebuild? please discuss

[Bagheera]

Hello Friends and Citizens:

I would like to open a discussion about the Colonia Nova Amphitheater and how to make it more relevant to present day citizens.

Here is how things stand. The amphitheater is currently being actively used, but its internal appearance has been temporarily heavily modified to make it a more friendly environment that better serves the users.

I have talked with a few citizens who have said the amphitheater - in its original form - isn't a very good meeting place. It seemed time to bring this out to the citizenry for discussion. It has been suggested that we recreate the amphitheater so it actually feels like a place the citizens can use. Many have suggested having rezzable components such as a stage, etc.

I would love to have as much input from all of you here, so that I can bring it up at the next RA meeting and we can have an informed discussion that integrates the desires of the citizens.

Thank you.

**edited to fix punctuation

[Ranma Tardis]

It has been brought to my attention from a fellow RA member that the Amphitheater is being used solely by a single group.
It is a political group as well using it 24/7 and have in fact become the defacto owners of the lot.
By letting them use it 24/7 it gives the appearance the government endorses this group and real life politics.
It needs to be moved onto private land. It also rightly or wrongly give the impression of favoritism.
If we let this stand then we need to make possible opposing groups and we risk having to hear Rush 24/7 or someone else.
I appreciate how Widget has gotten this going it is just on the wrong site.
A compromise would be to allow them to rent the land and facility 24/7.
If we allow this to stand we would have to make other public land available to other groups at zero cost for 24/7 usage.
It is my understanding that a citizen has arranged for the group to have a new home in a new facility at zero costs. This would be right and proper.
It is my hope this can be done voluntary and good will can be maintained.

[Widget Whiteberry]

Earlier this evening, Ranma and I had a long conversation about this. Memory can be faulty and I'm not referring to chat logs tonight, but here's how it seems to me:

For years, I knew of CDS - from Delia Lake - and liked the idea of it. Last summer I decided that VS should give up it's full sim - too much money, too time consuming, no longer justifying what had become my personal sandbox. I rented two parcels at CDS because the culture seems compatible and there is public space available for Virtually Speaking and .... because in the last months, I came to realize that it makes sense to contribute to the community treasury rather than having our own sim.

I saw several possible places for VS; the amphitheater - seemed most suitable and after talking with Tor and some others here, I did a few things to make the amphitheater look and feel more hospitable and less 'lion and Christian'ish:' raising the theater floor to bring the first tier of seats closer; adding carpets and chairs.
Then, I set up the upstage signage and because no one else is currently using the amphitheater and because I've been so rl busy, I was lazy and left the upstage signage - which is consistent on Sundays and changes every Thursday - in place.

It took some time - and continues to take time - to establish the amphitheater as our home, both with our SL audience and with the guests and panelists, many of whom are on - or in the audience - repeatedly. I would hate to move again. And of course I like my double parcel at Colonia Nova with it's exceedingly simple design. Feel free to visit: just look for the giant bunnies and the rocking chairs.

So, here's what I proposed to Ranma and then Tor and now propose to all of you:
I'll leave the VS logo in place so people who wander in know they have found the right place. But beginning tomorrow, I'll remove the upstage VS signage from the amphitheatre. I'll rez it on Sunday and Thursday morning and remove it on Sunday and Thursday nights.

On another note, the amphitheater could be rebuilt with many fewer prims. If it is, I'd love for the shade structures to be semi transparent.

[Sudane Erato]

I've mentioned (and Rosie also suggested as well) to Tor the idea of installing a holodeck system in the amphitheater, such as we use in the new Kirche for changing the altar area and other features as needed. It works very well and is easy to use. Please let me know if I can help in any way with this project, either in putting in such a system, rebuilding the theater, or both. I'd be happy to help.

Sudane.......................................

[Widget Whiteberry]

Sudane - I'd love to be part of creating some possible amphitheaters. Would be fun to make, show, discuss .... etc. If the whole set-up (chairs, rugs, table) needs to be removed and replaced, then a Holodeck will be essential.

[Rosie Gray]

On another note, the amphitheater could be rebuilt with many fewer prims. If it is, I'd love for the shade structures to be semi transparent.

Widget I agree that the amphitheatre needs rebuilding as it has had its day as far as old SL builds go. It's far too 'primmy' and could be a lot more realistic now. Your mention of the shades is a good example.

I'd like to say that before VS started using the amphitheatre that it has been sitting empty of use by anyone else except for the very occasional event, since I've been a citizen. I think that the VS events are wonderful in that they are regularly scheduled, well advertised, professionally run, and bring folk to the sim because of all this on a regular basis. And, as Widget has mentioned, she also has purchased two large lots that she pays tier on, so I see this all as very positive!

Perhaps the Artisan's Guild can be of assistance in rebuilding the space, and with Sudane's rezzing instrument for different scenarios we can ensure that it remains the vibrant and positive space that it has become... only better!

Rosie

[Bagheera]

Widget - This was to be a post about rebuilding the amphitheater to be more useable for all citizens.

I was very deliberate in my original post to leave out mention of how appropriate or inappropriate I judge the way the amphitheater is being used by Virtually Speaking, which was the inciting factor for this discussion, but a very separate issue.

Since you brought it up, though, I will speak my mind.

You said:

I saw several possible places for VS; the amphitheater - seemed most suitable and after talking with Tor and some others here, I did a few things to make the amphitheater look and feel more hospitable and less 'lion and Christian'ish:' raising the theater floor to bring the first tier of seats closer; adding carpets and chairs.

I understand you began your activities and you were operating under the assumption that you had permission to use the public lands as you did based on what the executive and past government officials said. However, the Chancellor does not have the authority to change the theme or to authorize anyone else to do so.

I refer to our Constitution:

Section 4 – Themes

Nothing in this Act shall give the Chancellor of CDS any power to change the overall theme of Neufriestadt or any other sim or administered component of the CDS.

Whether one likes the “lion and Christian’ish” theme, it IS within covenant. Despite the “hospitable aspect” of your layout, it is so far outside covenant, I could imagine visitors to our sim would wonder what the sim managers were thinking to permit such an arrangement, and be cautious about buying into such a sim community. I know I would.

Then, I set up the upstage signage and because no one else is currently using the amphitheater and because I've been so rl busy, I was lazy and left the upstage signage - which is consistent on Sundays and changes every Thursday - in place.

The signage left up in the amphitheater has strongly polarized political content. The land description was changed (!) and audio and video were left set to VS’s settings. Not only is this inappropriate, in general, but visitors to CDS might very well believe CDS was taking a political stance based on seeing this kind of signage in what is designated a public space. We must be sensitive to these things and require citizens who are using public land to remove their personal materials promptly after each event is completed.

I would like to address your remark about “no one else currently using the amphitheater..”

On February 28th, Gwyn posted in the forums, a request about holding an event (http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... e6a#p20355 ).

This is what she wrote:

So, I think I'm going to hold a discussion event on this, next Sunday, March 3rd, at 3 PM SL. Now all I need is a place I usually pick the Amphitheatre in Colonia Nova, since it's not overly laggy, and is one of the spots in the CDS where I can actually announce events through the Linden's system. But I see that the Amphitheatre has been the stage for a lot of activity lately, and is all set for the next round of events. So, I'm open to ideas. Where do you wish this to take place?

What I saw happened here is Gwyn assumed the amphitheater was not available because it was set up for the VS events. This was a very reasonable assumption. It is not incumbent on our citizens to have to second-guess and chase down leadership in-world to gain access to our mutually shared resources. As citizens, we need to pick up after ourselves when taking advantage of shared spaces. As leadership, we need to ensure all citizens have reasonable access to all that citizenship confers to them.

I came to realize that is makes sense to contribute to the community treasury rather than having our own sim

Colonia Nova is a full sim - it is configured to host up to 70 avatars at one time. Linden Labs charges more for full sims as they can handle a heavier load, and CDS has made the investment to be able to carry that load, for the benefit of all our citizens. Tor tells me you have between 12-20 attendees regularly at your VS events, and sometimes more. I applaud your success. However, having these events happen twice a week on government land that has been so heavily modified it has been inaccessible to other citizens and gives the impression it is privately held is inappropriate.

In my opinion, the proper thing to do would have been to purchase and pay tier on a parcel to host your 2x weekly event, not re-design the amphitheater out of theme, put your sign at the entrance, leave up strong political messages and twitter feeds, rewrite the land description and reset the audio and video settings.

In addition, last week, I had an avatar come find me while I was building, who told me they had been coming to the VS meetings. They wanted to see our “Capitol City”. I escorted them to our Praetorium and explained what was there, but this didn’t sit right with what this avatar wanted - they wanted to see a “Capitol City”. They said to me: “If one of your sims is not doing very well, I’d suggest you put an RFP out for a Capitol City and get gridwide involvement. I had made NO mention of the financial health of CDS or whether or not our sims were doing well; all I had done was explain the Praetorium and which rooms were used by what branches of the government. This avatar’s remark upset me a great deal! I wondered where she had gotten the idea and was concerned a notion like that may have been picked up at VS meetings. No avatars I know of from the VS meetings have invested in CDS parcels. No avatar is going to invest in a community of sims that are perceived as being in financial trouble! If people at VS meetings are getting the notion we are in financial trouble (especially when we are NOT!), then the meetings are doing CDS a serious DIS-service, not a favor.

My thought, until we get this resolved, because I do believe you have been acting in good faith and with permission, was to lease a parcel in Colonia Nova and loan you the use of it. To that end, I have purchased a parcel and am in the process of putting a building there which will accommodate your set up. The first 3 months are paid up, which ought to give us (the government) time to sort things out.

[Widget Whiteberry]

Bagheera, Your comments are rather a lot to absorb. It feels as if I've inadvertently become involved in issues that predate the appearance of VS at CDS.

Meanwhile, as intended, I've removed the VS specific items - and media settings - and will return to set up on Thursday morning.

Also, I'm unaware of any conversations about the financial health of CDS that may have come to the notice of people who also attend VS events, but are not themselves part of CDS.

Rosie - thank you. I'd love to talk with you more.

[Ranma Tardis]

Widget,

Told you last night that you could not keep your groups things in the Amphitheater when not in use.
I told you "you were not at fault" but it does not make it right.
Worse is your message is political and insulting as well.
You have taken over that facility, it is public property and not a gift that can be handed out.
While the goal is good to use an unused place, it is not proper.
You need to use the facility being offered.
While the government gets it house in order.
There you can leave your message up 24/7.
Your tier free exclusive use of the Amphitheater amounts to the government paying to support your political message.
The value of the tier is being defrauded from the government.
This can not be allowed to continue. It is not proper for CDS government to directly or indirectly support any real life political movement.

Update, I went by for a check and the political stuff is gone.
this will work for now

[Sudane Erato]

Widget is a new CDS citizen who brings a intelligent and popular program to the CDS. Can we find a way to be more supportive of the very kind of program that the CDS was intended to foster? It's well known that the workings of the CDS system are impenetrable to outsiders and newcomers. Learning of our concerns, Widget has indicated a strong desire to work with us to achieve a suitable community arrangement. I suggest that we support her and her program, not insist that she move away from the amphitheater where she is now set up and has audience momentum, and in a positive manner assist her with adjustments and rebuildings needed for an integrated community program.

Sudane......................

[Rosie Gray]

Widget,

Told you last night that you could not keep your groups things in the Amphitheater when not in use.
I told you "you were not at fault" but it does not make it right.
Worse is your message is political and insulting as well.
You have taken over that facility, it is public property and not a gift that can be handed out.
While the goal is good to use an unused place, it is not proper.
You need to use the facility being offered.
While the government gets it house in order.
There you can leave your message up 24/7.
Your tier free exclusive use of the Amphitheater amounts to the government paying to support your political message.
The value of the tier is being defrauded from the government.
This can not be allowed to continue. It is not proper for CDS government to directly or indirectly support any real life political movement.

Update, I went by for a check and the political stuff is gone.
this will work for now

Ranma,Widget has had the support of the Chancellor, and her events have been going on here for months after discussing the setup with citizens that were around at that time. The group has not caused any harm to anyone, and you did not even know it was there. Why be so negative?

[Ranma Tardis]

Widget,

Told you last night that you could not keep your groups things in the Amphitheater when not in use.
I told you "you were not at fault" but it does not make it right.
Worse is your message is political and insulting as well.
You have taken over that facility, it is public property and not a gift that can be handed out.
While the goal is good to use an unused place, it is not proper.
You need to use the facility being offered.
While the government gets it house in order.
There you can leave your message up 24/7.
Your tier free exclusive use of the Amphitheater amounts to the government paying to support your political message.
The value of the tier is being defrauded from the government.
This can not be allowed to continue. It is not proper for CDS government to directly or indirectly support any real life political movement.

Update, I went by for a check and the political stuff is gone.
this will work for now

Ranma,Widget has had the support of the Chancellor, and her events have been going on here for months after discussing the setup with citizens that were around at that time. The group has not caused any harm to anyone, and you did not even know it was there. Why be so negative?

When they first started it was just using the Amphitheater, last night I visited and it look like they owned it. The group she represents is a very small liberal faction in the United States. As a Progressive Democrat and member of the Democratic National Committee find their message offensive. So to make it right the CDS would have to make available to me a facility like this 24/7. Then the Republicans would want the same amount of tier free space. This is just American politics, add European politics and what if fringe European groups want space as well? Tor crossed the line allowing this to happen. Yes he had "good intentions" but that is the cause of so many problems.

I have no problem allowing this group to spread their message on private revenue producing land. There are so many problems with letting them use the Amphitheater. Who decides when a political group can use it? It does not pass the "smell" test. Again this makes it look like the CDS is promoting their agenda. Rest assured as a member of the RA am working on a legislative solution to this problem that is threatening to become a Constitutional Crisis.

[Rosie Gray]

... The group she represents is a very small liberal faction in the United States. As a Progressive Democrat and member of the Democratic National Committee find their message offensive. So to make it right the CDS would have to make available to me a facility like this 24/7. Then the Republicans would want the same amount of tier free space. This is just American politics, add European politics and what if fringe European groups want space as well? ...

I have no problem allowing this group to spread their message on private revenue producing land. There are so many problems with letting them use the Amphitheater. Who decides when a political group can use it? It does not pass the "smell" test. Again this makes it look like the CDS is promoting their agenda. Rest assured as a member of the RA am working on a legislative solution to this problem that is threatening to become a Constitutional Crisis.

Sorry but I don't see that this is a political group. Here is the description of Virtually Speaking from their group: "Live, in-depth conversations with writers, publishers, pundits, scientists, educators and public officials. Join the studio audience and be part of the conversation. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/virtuallyspeaking

The group is open enrollment and they are encouraging anyone who wants to be a part of the discussions to attend. To me, this is exactly the type of group that fits well with the CDS theme!

[Bagheera]

I confess, I am confounded. I am just trying to do part of the job I was elected to do; but the same people who have demonstrated passion about ensuring our covenants are kept in the past (such as here: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... 324#p16316 and here: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... 956#p16222), are now taking a stubborn stance about something which is really a very fixable problem.

I am a firm believer in Kant's philosophy that people are an end, not a means to an end. Winning the battle for me means finding a proper solution - something that is the right thing to do, an' that harm none (or as close to that as possible).

Towards that end, the first thing I tried was to build a skybox at 500meters directly above the amphitheater, so that all that would be required would be to change the Z elevations on the VS-specific prims by adding exactly 500 to the present Z elevations, and the entire set up would be in position inside the skybox. I showed Tor and he nixed that, saying VS should stay on the ground so people could see it.

Then I purchased lot B.09 in Colonia Nova, a very large lot with the most liberal covenant in the sim, and (again) built a structure designed to contain the VS-prims with no need to re-arrange anything... with the intent to make it available in a dedicated form for VS's use. That offer has gone begging.

For the record, I am totally fine with VS using the amphitheater, I just would like to see it restored to its original configuration between uses.

As a member of the Representative Assembly, I see my job as protecting the interests of all the citizens of CDS, since a majority of them showed their trust in me by voting for me. Keeping the covenants seems like a fundamental touchstone - it preserves the quality of sim-life for everyone - yet now the very people who shaped those rules are now making me feel the fool for asking to abide by them.

I really have better things to do with my lifeforce than quibble with people who know better about keeping their own rules.

The signage is gone in the amphitheater - yes, thank you Widget - but the prims that raise the elevation of the floor, the oriental carpets and the aluminum frame Scandinavian chairs are still there. I believe they remain because people who have demonstrated leadership in the past in CDS are telling Widget it is totally fine to leave them there, and as a new citizen, Widget has no reason but to trust their guidance. So the fault does not lie on Widget but on those who definitely should know better.

If we are going to change the theme of the sim, that is a matter that should be brought before the citizenry as a whole and made a part of our charter - not done on an ad hoc basis & really for no good reason that I can see.

And if you DON't want me to do my job, the job you elected me for, please let me know. I've got a quarter of a full sim on the mainland, a private homestead sim, and 3 satellite shops to occupy my time. I love CDS, which is why I am here, but I don't want to stay where I'm not wanted.

Other things on my to do list as RA member:

1) breedables that cause lag? how do we find out if they are the cause? Other private sims have some kind of cap on what is allowed, we might want to do the same.

2) real world political activist signs on public land (not talking about VS here), who says they are okay & can everyone leave one?

[Tanoujin Milestone]

Bags, please wait a moment... you wanted to discuss the amphitheater. That is a good idea. We could need a better design at that place to hold events. Everyone is in agreement so far. Sudane offered help to put a scenic rezzer and/or rebuild the theater. Widget signalized her willingness to cooperate and to contribute to the project. Rosie is ready to recruit further support via the Guild. Looks like you have hit the nail on the head. You started this thread to prepare discussion and decision making at the Assembly - I love prepared meetings, wonderful, thank you! Do we want the RA to hire a single builder or a team? Do we want to see proposals? Should the guild coordinate the project? What role do *you* want in that process? It is your baby, Bags. Where to?

Then the covenant versus hospitality discussion of the current use started like a dam bursting. My goodness, Bags, I see your point, and I am far, far, far from blaming you, but we can not force the audience to attend wearing a toga and speaking fluent latin, right? If that somewhat ugly, nevertheless very comfortable chairs disappear on touch with the complete scene after the event, leaving the space for other events, isn't that exactly the win/win situation and true progress we are looking for? Again, I see no one fighting back, please correct me if I am wrong here.

About strongly polarizing political content - Ranma pointed me to that as well btw - i am undecided here, being an interested outsider of the US discussion trying hard to improve my ability to follow the spoken word. I enjoyed both events I visited very much. As long as it is within the UDHR - freedom of speech included - I, for one, am tolerant. But I understand this is much harder to take for some of those directly involved - I would not be able to stand the Bertelsmann-Stiftung taking over the theater without heavy concerns for example... but polarizing RL content is another topic to me.

Now, Bags, please... let us focus on the factual level of the big picture and start a process. I want to support you. Let me!