What should we do?

Here you might discuss basically everything.

Moderator: SC Moderators

Em Warden
Passionate Protagonist
Passionate Protagonist
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:05 pm

Re: What should we do?

Post by Em Warden »

I eagerly vote for dean Callipygian's "blue print" suggestions, including the Tuscan theme in LA.

As for the alleviation of themes, that is the exact reason why I left Caledon and settled in CDS. When I first moved into Caledon, it had a very strict Victorian-Steampunk theme. When I left, some sims had disappeared entirely, and on the remaining sims people could build the most ugly, completely unthemed things among the gorgeous victorian-steampunk buildings. The reason was obviously to make it easier to have the increasing number of empty parcels rented. The original idea was wasted, so I left. I know others who had been in Caledon very long, who left for the same reason.

I really love NFS inside the walls, and I know visitors are enchanted by it. Please don't change the covenant there.

As for Monastery, I would like to present the idea of putting out small cottages (=one cottage that can be copied), perhaps built on a kind of Monastery theme, ready to rent. There is a lot of empty ground in Monastery that could be divided into parcels. I can see in my imagination a number of little charmful cottages climbing on the slopes... Maybe the entrance doors could be different colors, so it is easier to find your way home :) I suggest a visit to Urquhart to get a hint of what can be done with themed prefabs for rent (there the theme is the Scottish Highlands). There are seldom any unrented houses there, and the tier is 3,85 L per prim/week.

I don't know how many the potential Cedar Island folks are, but maybe we could start the revitalization of LA straight away, and make some kind of border between the new LA and the Cedar people's eventual land area, so they can build whatever they like there. If we start reconstructing LA in one end, we will have time to negotiate with the Cedar Island people before we are finished.

People who don't like strictly themed sims can rent parcels almost everywhere in Sl. But I know that it is pretty common out there to rent a parcel, build the house of your dreams, and move again after three weeks because some nut built a hugh, dark and sinister castle just outside your parcel border. (Not the kind of elegant castle that adorns NFS, believe me...) Or a bright yellow banana-shaped house with a rainbow roof and shocking pink chimneys. In CDS we are safe...

PS.Should we come to the conclusion that we need to hire a landscape builder to make something breathtaking in LA, I would like to recommend SkyeRyder Variale/Variale Designs. Her sim landscaping is gorgeous. Her prices might be breathtaking too- I haven't asked.

When you go through hell- keep walking!

Winston Churchill
Ranma Tardis

Re: What should we do?

Post by Ranma Tardis »

Em Warden your view is interesting but mistaken. There have always been exceptions made in Caledon. I saw Caledon from the beginning and had land in two for a long long time. The rules in the CDS are stiffing growth and perhaps even existence. They are too hard and complex for most people including me. I am down to a single lot now because it is too hard to get things done in CDS. A fellow residence said something about providing a Ulrika plush doll. Then all of sudden said needed permission from Tor. Well frack that, I just do not have the time for nonsense.

User avatar
Trebor Warcliffe
Master Word Wielder
Master Word Wielder
Posts: 412
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:26 am

Re: What should we do?

Post by Trebor Warcliffe »

“Just when I thought I was out… they pull me back in.”
Michael Corleone in Godfather III

Sit back, grab a cup of your favorite brew, because this one could be a long one. I will be referencing two forum topics in this post; the proposed tier increase topic and the “what should we do” topic.
First I’d like to clarify the issue of what the CDS has in reserves. The amount of L$ 3,188,422 that Tor referenced in his post was the total current amount of money CDS had as of May 31st 2013, both reserves and working capital. The reserves of the CDS as of June 30th 2013 is L$ 2,485,235. I’d like to point out that this amount has been the same since September 30th 2010. What has changed in almost 3 years; the linden dollar exchange rate. September 30th 2010 the exchange rate or revalue rate was 277 while the revalue rate on June 30th 2013 was 249. So our reserves were valued at US$8,972 and they are now valued at US$9,981.

Tier was reduced in the CDS in August 2011. There were three main goals to the tier restructuring plan. Reduce tier to a more competitive level with other estates, have a uniform tier across all 5 sims, and have a double-prim parcel’s tier be exactly double that of a single-prim parcel. Two of the three goals were accomplished.

Nineteen tier pricing models were compared against ours for this study. Over 120 hours was spent gathering and analyzing data, calculating different pricing models and preparing and presenting the study to the CDS citizenry. Out of those 19 pricing models the CDS was above the median point in its tier. With income on a decline due to a decreasing population base the citizens voted to endorse this new tier.

It is fiscally irresponsible for us to continue to operate in the negative. For those who say that the CDS isn’t a business I have to politely disagree. We may not be a business in the true sense of the word but in many ways we have to conduct ourselves as if we were a business. If you had a business in the real world and each year you generated profits of over a million dollars and then suddenly you had a year or two of losses of close to a quarter of a million dollars would you not take corrective measures? Of course you would.

So after all that is said I for one do endorse Tor’s proposed tier increase. Personally I’d rather see it at the rate of 0.0300 instead of 0.0325 but it’s not worth arguing over. Our current tier for a 512sqm parcel with 117prims is US$3.25, under Tor’s proposal it would be $3.80. A candy bar costs more than fifty-five cents people. I will also remind everyone that under our original tier using today’s conversion rate of 250 was US$ 1,719.04. Tor’s proposal will put us at US$1,542.96. That’s still a savings of 11% and that alone is good enough for me.

The other hot topic of the day is whether or not we should keep Locus Amoenus (LA). It would be foolish for us to do away with LA. For one thing you’re not going to have the land that is currently being rented in LA all of a sudden be rented in one of our other sims. I may be wrong but I welcome you to ask the current landowners if they would or not. The most difficult to transition over would be the Time Machine. The only other sim that this business would blend into would be CN and unfortunately CN is a single prim sim so the Time Machine would need double the land it has now in order to have the same amount of prims. I love the idea presented by Calli of turning LA into Tuscany.

I will strongly support the idea of discontinuing the sale of parcels in the CDS by the government. However I disagree with requiring new citizens to pay 3 months of tier upfront. Make it one month of tier and discontinue the refund of tier upon early vacancy for everyone. If we’re trying to make it inexpensive for people to join our community why hinder them with requiring them to come up with 3 months of tier?

Ranma, I found your comment about the restrictions in CDS being too harsh and than your use of Caledon as your example rather contradictory. Caledon is owned by one individual who makes all of the decisions; everything goes through him, including the nice profits. In the CDS “we the people” are the ones who make the decisions. If we want something changed we gather amongst ourselves, debate it and majority rules.

I agree with you that some of our covenants could use some amending. I for one wouldn’t take issue with lifting the restriction on the amount of land one citizen can own. If you’re interested in a sim that is less restrictive, where you don’t need approval for every little thing than gather some supporters and submit your proposal for a new sim. All kinds of ideas have been tossed about in regards to new sim proposals from islands that allow sailing, to America around the 18th to 19th century time period all that’s needed is the population base to support it.

One more thing Ranma that I personally took great offense of; your little snide remark directed towards Sudane, “Caledon has a lot more lots changing hands. Somehow the Guvnah is able to keep up with the workload.” In my opinion you owe Sudane an apology. She is one of a handful of citizens in this community who actually “do” something and not sit on the sidelines bitching about everything. If you think the responsibilities of keeping the CDS in operation is such a simple, non-time consuming task, than I invite you to volunteer your services. Yes “volunteer” because unlike the “Guvnah” we don’t fill our personal bank accounts with CDS revenue. I’ll remind you of my earlier post where I mentioned the 120+ hours I spent on the first tier proposal.

I couldn’t agree more with Calli’s statement “so let’s focus on what we are or want to be and how to achieve that.” We know who we are, we’re the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, the oldest self-governed community in Second Life. The historical significance of that was shown to me during the SL10 Birthday Celebration where during the historical walk area put on by Linden Labs one of the placards mentioned the beginnings of our wonderful community and the significance of it.

Callie wrote “Where did we advertise the available land, the attractive tier rates, and CDS as a whole? Did we invest some money in banner ads on the Marketplace and the SLuniverse, did we buy some ads inworld and web magazines about SL, or buy ad space in high traffic areas – how much did we actually do and invest and was it enough. The flyers coming to my RL house every week tell me that a great deal isn’t much use if no one knows about it.”

Personally I don’t think “we” did a damn thing. I think a better question would be to ask each individual citizen what they have done in reference to your above question. I’ll be more than happy to share my experiences.

As preparations were being made by Delia Lake to showcase a new exhibit for MoCA I reached out to various media outlets in an attempt to get us some press. We had a very nice article published in one of the most popular magazines in SL, The Best of SL.

After someone explained to me (I honestly don’t remember who) that when we place a parcel up for sale if words used in our description matched search terms someone looking to purchase land would use on the marketplace than our parcels would show up in the search results. So I redid the descriptions for the four full sims and forwarded them to Rudeen who was kind enough to place them into the parcel descriptions.

Even before I was Chancellor all I heard was that we needed to hold events, activity, generate more traffic into our community. I wasn’t shy about spending money during my two terms in office if I could justify the cost. The sad thing is that for most of the events that were held during my two terms in office, not only were volunteers hard to come by, very few of our citizens even bothered to attend the events to show their support or at least welcome the attendees to the events. Valentine’s Day 2012 Our St. Valentine’s Day Ball was a huge success with other 150+ visitors to our home in a single day and a maximum at one time of 42 visitors. The bad news was that beside me and Tor there was no one else to greet visitors and work the crowds throughout the day. I had visitors making rude comments in public chat about there not being greeters in attendance.

Sadly, Floralia 2012 was never held and it seemed like no one even cared. In fact I think the only person who even brought up the topic to me was Guillaume Mistwalker and I had to inform him that there would be no Floralia 2012 because I had no assistance in planning and carrying out the event.

During my term the CDS was able to book four acts over two weekends at a substantial discount. So we had one concert on the first Saturday and one concert on the first Sunday. Attendance for Saturday was lacklustre with 15 – 20 visitors with 4 citizens in attendance. Sunday drew a larger crowd of 35+ visitors with 7 citizens in attendance. The second weekend I don’t have the counts available. I also had citizens bitching because they didn’t like the TEMPORAY set-up in place for the event.

During my second term I studied the popularity of the 7Seas Fishing Contests across the grid. I made the decision, for a minimal investment to bring 7Seas Contests to the CDS. I put a call out asking for anyone in our community to volunteer one hour a week to host the event. Not a single citizen offered to assist and I ended up paying an outsider L$500 to host the contest each week. This WEEKLY event drew on average 25+ visitors into our community every Friday night.

Another issue that was addressed during my two terms in office was the lack of traffic for CDS merchants to sell their wares. “There’s no money to be made in the CDS, no one visits us.” The CDS purchased an Alli & Ali Hair Affiliate Shop. The business was opened in LA at the Insulae. Classified advertisements were placed on the marketplace and we were linked directly with the vendor through their contest board. Our first month, we had a minimum of 38 individual visitors and 31 sales and over the time period that it was in operation and I was managing it, before I took my 5 to 6 month hiatus, the store generated over 300+ visitors. I don’t have the sales figures in front of me for that time period but in all honesty it’s neither here nor there. The point is I proved that traffic could be generated in our community. Instead of our merchants capitalizing on this increased traffic and opening shops within the vicinity I had people bitching and complaining about the type of business it was and how much space it took up.

During my term the CDS invested in its infrastructure. One purchase that was made was a printing press. One idea that was discussed to a good extent was to publish a Welcome to the CDS Book that could be used for promotional purposes as well as given out to new citizens to acquaint them with the CDS. Unfortunately to the best of my knowledge this book has yet to be published. A welcoming committee was also formed at the beginning of my term. Our land scanner was set to send an email to the members of the welcoming committee whenever a parcel changed ownership. During the early months of this committee I know for a fact that we had three new avatars join our community and none of them were welcomed by anyone on the committee.

During my two terms I took the time to explore the sims that were consistently on the top 25 list of most visited sims not including the sex sims. Sims like London City, Franks Place 2, London City 3, Brasil Rio, Jaded Island, sims that had an average of 40 to 60 visitors at any given time day or night. These sims offer billboards where you can advertise on and with most of them not being heavily residential sims would not have a conflict of interest with us advertising our community. I was never able to get this project off the ground because I couldn’t find anyone who wanted to be bothered in making the textures for me.

So what’s my point you might be asking at this moment? My point is that the CDS is what each and every one of you makes it. No matter if one individual or a small handful of individuals devote hundreds of hours of their time, energy, and other resources into this community not a damn thing will truly get accomplished in the long term if each and every one of you don’t do your part. Ever since I joined this community it has been 95% talk and 5% action. Enough talk already. Set your differences aside and work together. We can all contribute to this community individually but in a group setting to turn this community around and make it better than it ever has been and continue the legacy of SL’s oldest self-governed community. Until we all come together not a damn thing will be accomplished.

Let us move away from all of the "us" and "them" and turn our attention to "we."
Ranma Tardis

my decison

Post by Ranma Tardis »

Trebor Warcliffe I have tried everything possible to help the CDS. As always I am not in line with most of the population. Or at least those that bother to be heard. I have not at all been effective as a RA member. Suppose I am not a yes girl and brown nose. So I am announcing my decision not to run for reelection to the 21st RA. I will finish out the term but no more. As for your view of Caledon, Desmond has always told me how much influence the population holds. If they are not happy they leave and like CDS is still around when others are gone. So this is my position and will not change my mind.

User avatar
Rosie Gray
Forum Wizard
Forum Wizard
Posts: 2084
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:47 am

Re: What should we do?

Post by Rosie Gray »

Trebor Warcliffe wrote:

First I’d like to clarify the issue of what the CDS has in reserves. The amount of L$ 3,188,422 that Tor referenced in his post was the total current amount of money CDS had as of May 31st 2013, both reserves and working capital. The reserves of the CDS as of June 30th 2013 is L$ 2,485,235. I’d like to point out that this amount has been the same since September 30th 2010. What has changed in almost 3 years; the linden dollar exchange rate. September 30th 2010 the exchange rate or revalue rate was 277 while the revalue rate on June 30th 2013 was 249. So our reserves were valued at US$8,972 and they are now valued at US$9,981.

Tier was reduced in the CDS in August 2011. There were three main goals to the tier restructuring plan. Reduce tier to a more competitive level with other estates, have a uniform tier across all 5 sims, and have a double-prim parcel’s tier be exactly double that of a single-prim parcel. Two of the three goals were accomplished.

Nineteen tier pricing models were compared against ours for this study. Over 120 hours was spent gathering and analyzing data, calculating different pricing models and preparing and presenting the study to the CDS citizenry. Out of those 19 pricing models the CDS was above the median point in its tier. With income on a decline due to a decreasing population base the citizens voted to endorse this new tier.

I'd like us not to go past the 'median point' that you note above Treb. The point is that we have money so we aren't in any danger of going broke, but raising the tier might detract anyone new. Do we really want to become what would be considered a 'highly priced' group of sims?

It is fiscally irresponsible for us to continue to operate in the negative. For those who say that the CDS isn’t a business I have to politely disagree. We may not be a business in the true sense of the word but in many ways we have to conduct ourselves as if we were a business. If you had a business in the real world and each year you generated profits of over a million dollars and then suddenly you had a year or two of losses of close to a quarter of a million dollars would you not take corrective measures? Of course you would.

But, we AREN'T a business! We are more like a micronation. We aren't here to make a profit.

The other hot topic of the day is whether or not we should keep Locus Amoenus (LA). It would be foolish for us to do away with LA. For one thing you’re not going to have the land that is currently being rented in LA all of a sudden be rented in one of our other sims. I may be wrong but I welcome you to ask the current landowners if they would or not. The most difficult to transition over would be the Time Machine. The only other sim that this business would blend into would be CN and unfortunately CN is a single prim sim so the Time Machine would need double the land it has now in order to have the same amount of prims. I love the idea presented by Calli of turning LA into Tuscany.

Agreed... especially about Tuscany, but even for a more generic Mediterranean theme of indeterminate era - similar to what NFS is in that regard.

I will strongly support the idea of discontinuing the sale of parcels in the CDS by the government. However I disagree with requiring new citizens to pay 3 months of tier upfront. Make it one month of tier and discontinue the refund of tier upon early vacancy for everyone. If we’re trying to make it inexpensive for people to join our community why hinder them with requiring them to come up with 3 months of tier?

I still think if we discontinue the sale of land we should expect 3 months of tier up front. Not sure how this works for land management though, since there still needs to be an actual transfer of land. I don't know if you can 'buy' land for $0L or not. I think on other sims where they do this, people are not actually buying, but they are renting instead (I think). This topic would need some research, in my opinion.

Ranma, I found your comment about the restrictions in CDS being too harsh and than your use of Caledon as your example rather contradictory. Caledon is owned by one individual who makes all of the decisions; everything goes through him, including the nice profits. In the CDS “we the people” are the ones who make the decisions. If we want something changed we gather amongst ourselves, debate it and majority rules.

I completely agree with this too. The sims are beautiful because we have restrictions. I'd support changing the restriction on the amount of land one citizen can own to be perhaps 5 plots (or maybe a sq. m would be better?), but not leave it completely open.

One more thing Ranma that I personally took great offense of; your little snide remark directed towards Sudane, “Caledon has a lot more lots changing hands. Somehow the Guvnah is able to keep up with the workload.” In my opinion you owe Sudane an apology. She is one of a handful of citizens in this community who actually “do” something and not sit on the sidelines bitching about everything. If you think the responsibilities of keeping the CDS in operation is such a simple, non-time consuming task, than I invite you to volunteer your services. Yes “volunteer” because unlike the “Guvnah” we don’t fill our personal bank accounts with CDS revenue. I’ll remind you of my earlier post where I mentioned the 120+ hours I spent on the first tier proposal.

You're quite right that unless you have taken on a big job like sim land management, you have no idea how much time and effort it takes. Sudane and the others who help with this are to be commended for all that they dos, FREE of compensation, quietly in the background, and for the benefit of the group as a whole.

Even before I was Chancellor all I heard was that we needed to hold events, activity, generate more traffic into our community. I wasn’t shy about spending money during my two terms in office if I could justify the cost. The sad thing is that for most of the events that were held during my two terms in office, not only were volunteers hard to come by, very few of our citizens even bothered to attend the events to show their support or at least welcome the attendees to the events. Valentine’s Day 2012 Our St. Valentine’s Day Ball was a huge success with other 150+ visitors to our home in a single day and a maximum at one time of 42 visitors. The bad news was that beside me and Tor there was no one else to greet visitors and work the crowds throughout the day. I had visitors making rude comments in public chat about there not being greeters in attendance.

All I can say about this is that I would have helped if I could, but I was too busy in RL. I also had absolutely no personal interest in a Valentine's ball, but I did help with setting up the site.

During my term the CDS was able to book four acts over two weekends at a substantial discount. So we had one concert on the first Saturday and one concert on the first Sunday. Attendance for Saturday was lacklustre with 15 – 20 visitors with 4 citizens in attendance. Sunday drew a larger crowd of 35+ visitors with 7 citizens in attendance. The second weekend I don’t have the counts available. I also had citizens bitching because they didn’t like the TEMPORAY set-up in place for the event.

Perhaps there wasn't enough consultation with citizens on if they had any interest in the acts? I personally am completely uninterested in karaoke 'musicians', who are not actually musicians, pretending to be famous RL people. I like to go to concerts where the artists are accomplished RL musicians playing real instruments, who sing in tune and on pitch, ... so, no idea what everyone else thinks, but I just wouldn't want to spend my valuable time at those types of events. Sorry. I also didn't like the massive stage that was out of character for the sim, but I wouldn't have voted against it - that's just not my taste. I really don't think that those types of acts bring anyone to the sims who are remotely interested in even looking around, let alone joining our group. Just my opinion perhaps, but prove me wrong!

During my second term I studied the popularity of the 7Seas Fishing Contests across the grid. I made the decision, for a minimal investment to bring 7Seas Contests to the CDS. I put a call out asking for anyone in our community to volunteer one hour a week to host the event. Not a single citizen offered to assist and I ended up paying an outsider L$500 to host the contest each week. This WEEKLY event drew on average 25+ visitors into our community every Friday night.

Perhaps that indicated the level of interest in holding the fishing contests? I think the gear is fun to have there, and nice for the community, but again as an 'event' it ended up bringing people there who like contests and fishing, and the host (who didn't show any signs of joining us either), but did they want to live in the CDS? Not that I saw.

Another issue that was addressed during my two terms in office was the lack of traffic for CDS merchants to sell their wares. “There’s no money to be made in the CDS, no one visits us.” The CDS purchased an Alli & Ali Hair Affiliate Shop. The business was opened in LA at the Insulae. Classified advertisements were placed on the marketplace and we were linked directly with the vendor through their contest board. Our first month, we had a minimum of 38 individual visitors and 31 sales and over the time period that it was in operation and I was managing it, before I took my 5 to 6 month hiatus, the store generated over 300+ visitors. I don’t have the sales figures in front of me for that time period but in all honesty it’s neither here nor there. The point is I proved that traffic could be generated in our community. Instead of our merchants capitalizing on this increased traffic and opening shops within the vicinity I had people bitching and complaining about the type of business it was and how much space it took up.

I thought it was worth a try, but I'm told that it didn't bring enough money in to warrant using the space, or more importantly the time it took to manage it.

During my term the CDS invested in its infrastructure. One purchase that was made was a printing press. One idea that was discussed to a good extent was to publish a Welcome to the CDS Book that could be used for promotional purposes as well as given out to new citizens to acquaint them with the CDS. Unfortunately to the best of my knowledge this book has yet to be published. A welcoming committee was also formed at the beginning of my term. Our land scanner was set to send an email to the members of the welcoming committee whenever a parcel changed ownership. During the early months of this committee I know for a fact that we had three new avatars join our community and none of them were welcomed by anyone on the committee.

It's a shame that the printing press hasn't been used. I don't really know who has access to it though.

As for the welcoming committee - I have personally gone and welcomed a number of new people because I've seen them arrive through the scanners. Perhaps those three new avatars you reference who came unwelcomed were not around whenever I had a chance to do that sort of thing, or perhaps I just missed seeing the notices. Again, these things are group efforts, and I certainly wouldn't say that it isn't worthwhile having them in place. It does work, but it's not perfect.

During my two terms I took the time to explore the sims that were consistently on the top 25 list of most visited sims not including the sex sims. Sims like London City, Franks Place 2, London City 3, Brasil Rio, Jaded Island, sims that had an average of 40 to 60 visitors at any given time day or night. These sims offer billboards where you can advertise on and with most of them not being heavily residential sims would not have a conflict of interest with us advertising our community. I was never able to get this project off the ground because I couldn’t find anyone who wanted to be bothered in making the textures for me.

I certainly would have helped you with textures - don't remember you asking about it.

So what’s my point you might be asking at this moment? My point is that the CDS is what each and every one of you makes it. No matter if one individual or a small handful of individuals devote hundreds of hours of their time, energy, and other resources into this community not a damn thing will truly get accomplished in the long term if each and every one of you don’t do your part. Ever since I joined this community it has been 95% talk and 5% action. Enough talk already. Set your differences aside and work together. We can all contribute to this community individually but in a group setting to turn this community around and make it better than it ever has been and continue the legacy of SL’s oldest self-governed community. Until we all come together not a damn thing will be accomplished.

Yep, the CDS is sloooow to get anything done! You're not the only one that thinks this Trebor! On we go :D

"Courage, my friend, it's not too late to make the world a better place."
~ Tommy Douglas
Callipygian
I need a hobby
I need a hobby
Posts: 812
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:25 pm

Re: What should we do?

Post by Callipygian »

Ranma Tardis wrote:

... Lastly there is a shadow government in which nothing can be done without their approval. As a member of the RA feel frustrated at the lack of ability to get things done or even voted upon up or down ...

Ranma, getting things voted on is as simple as posting the proposed legislation here in the Forums, under Legislative Discussion, and indicating that you would like it on the next RA agenda - this applies to all citizens, not just members of the RA

From the RA Rules of Procedure:

3. Citizen input
Any citizen may propose legislation to the RA by: 1. emailing the proposal to the LRA; 2. giving the LRA a proposal inworld on notecard; or 3. posting specifically proposed text in the “legislative discussion” forum in a post that specifically requests that the LRA add the proposal to the agenda.
It is suggested that that member be chosen by the submitter as a supporter of the substance of the bill. Posting the content of the bill on the forum is also strongly suggested, so that public opinion can be gathered. It is highly suggested that the bill contain two parts:
(1) A summary of what is proposed, and
(2) a detailed statement of the proposed action and its implications.
The members AND the public need to know the issues on what will be a wide variety of matters, and those persons must not be assumed to have a complete understanding of the issues.

also from the RA Rules of Procedure:

1.Agenda
... It is expected that all members will suggest agenda items, but the LRA will prepare the final draft. If the RA membership feels that the LRA has not brought an agenda item to the meeting that they want, a petition agreed to by a majority of all members can insert an agenda item into the list for the next meeting....

So there is no 'behind the curtain' government going on, but there IS a a process to have items added to the agenda and a process for dealing with the omission of items, whether by accident or intention. Personally I think a public post to the Forums is always the best choice to request an item be heard, because it gives the populace notice of what is being proposed so that they can comment and attend the RA meeting when the motion is presented.

Calli

People often say that, in a democracy, decisions are made by a majority of the people. Of course, that is not true. Decisions are made by a majority of those who make themselves heard and who vote -- a very different thing.

Walter H. Judd
User avatar
Tor Karlsvalt
Chancellor
Chancellor
Posts: 433
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:56 am
Contact:

Re: What should we do?

Post by Tor Karlsvalt »

I have posted my proposal to the Sim Planning section of the forum at http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4068.

What should we do?

LA does have its admirers. In some ways it is more inviting that the Alpine regions, especially for people who like to build on flat sims.

Still I do think the Roman theme is too old for most of SL. The main theme in CDS is to live in the current time but surrounded by the world created by those who came before us. This does not mean we never change, but evolve.

The alpine regions span a broad period of time. If anything in the years I have been here, they have become more traditional. When I arrived in CDS, there were several modern or homes in the NFS valley. I remember they were tasteful and fit into the alpine theme. Generally, there have been few conflicts over building style in the Alpine regions. AM was a transitional zone and classical builds were allowed. Look at the info center in AM and the Old Bowl.

In contrast, the Roman sims, especially LA have been a constant battleground. The Roman sims demanded a peristyle home. That requirement has been relaxed in LA, but builds must be those that could have been built in ancient times. In the past I remember this has lead to unusual fights between residents and with the executive. I have seen controversy over the types of games played on the beach, weather a house could have glass windows or metal balcony railings or even a white painted trellis in a garden. Not to mention, people have complained when an owner of a Roman build allowed people to see an aquarium or expresso machine from the street. With a little thought I am sure I could make an even longer list.

I mention this contrast because it shows that the more rigid theme of LA has been a constant source of conflict. Much more than other sims, imo. Perhaps, many of you are not aware of this, but as someone who has been in the executive in some manner over the recent years, I have had more then my share of conflict between residents.

Why is there so much conflict? I think in part because people feel that the Roman theme is forced upon them and is unnatural for a non-RP sim.

The Roman theme seems to work in CN. Possibly this is because there is more public building in CN. There are numerous prebuilt residences inside and outside the city walls. There is the Thermae, Pretorium, temples to Minerva and Diana and Chancellor's government house. Possibly most importantly are the city walls. These builds anchor the sim and enforce the theme. LA lacks a dominating public build to enforce a theme.

I do think LA needs a theme. However the theme I see people naturally moving toward is more a Mediterranean style that can include ancient as well as modern. In almost every case where houses have been built by newer residents the style has been less Roman then Tuscan or Southern Italian. My inclination is to give the people what they want. Let the sim settle into it natural state which is probably a more rural and modern counterpart to CN. I think this can be done harmoniously.

Citizen
Ranma Tardis

Re: What should we do?

Post by Ranma Tardis »

Callipygian wrote:
Ranma Tardis wrote:

... Lastly there is a shadow government in which nothing can be done without their approval. As a member of the RA feel frustrated at the lack of ability to get things done or even voted upon up or down ...

Ranma, getting things voted on is as simple as posting the proposed legislation here in the Forums, under Legislative Discussion, and indicating that you would like it on the next RA agenda - this applies to all citizens, not just members of the RA

From the RA Rules of Procedure:

3. Citizen input
Any citizen may propose legislation to the RA by: 1. emailing the proposal to the LRA; 2. giving the LRA a proposal inworld on notecard; or 3. posting specifically proposed text in the “legislative discussion” forum in a post that specifically requests that the LRA add the proposal to the agenda.
It is suggested that that member be chosen by the submitter as a supporter of the substance of the bill. Posting the content of the bill on the forum is also strongly suggested, so that public opinion can be gathered. It is highly suggested that the bill contain two parts:
(1) A summary of what is proposed, and
(2) a detailed statement of the proposed action and its implications.
The members AND the public need to know the issues on what will be a wide variety of matters, and those persons must not be assumed to have a complete understanding of the issues.

also from the RA Rules of Procedure:

1.Agenda
... It is expected that all members will suggest agenda items, but the LRA will prepare the final draft. If the RA membership feels that the LRA has not brought an agenda item to the meeting that they want, a petition agreed to by a majority of all members can insert an agenda item into the list for the next meeting....

So there is no 'behind the curtain' government going on, but there IS a a process to have items added to the agenda and a process for dealing with the omission of items, whether by accident or intention. Personally I think a public post to the Forums is always the best choice to request an item be heard, because it gives the populace notice of what is being proposed so that they can comment and attend the RA meeting when the motion is presented.

Calli

As a member of the RA I should be able to make motions and introduce legislation without getting a majority beforehand. As I wrote am frustrated and will serve out my term and no more. We in the RA represent the citizens and should have the rights a member of the congress of the USA. Since we are so small I think one RA member brining up legistlation is enough. Anyhow I have been wasting my time and effort. If the CDS stands or falls it is in the hand of other people. I am going to step aside but do not expect me to rubber stamp yes on any vote!

User avatar
Rosie Gray
Forum Wizard
Forum Wizard
Posts: 2084
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:47 am

Re: What should we do?

Post by Rosie Gray »

Ranma Tardis wrote:

As a member of the RA I should be able to make motions and introduce legislation without getting a majority beforehand. As I wrote am frustrated and will serve out my term and no more. We in the RA represent the citizens and should have the rights a member of the congress of the USA. Since we are so small I think one RA member brining up legistlation is enough. Anyhow I have been wasting my time and effort. If the CDS stands or falls it is in the hand of other people. I am going to step aside but do not expect me to rubber stamp yes on any vote!

I don't see anywhere that it says you have to have a majority beforehand to make motions and introduce legislation, Ranma. Sorry if you feel that you can't work within the frameworks of the CDS. The processes are slow it's true, but they usually are in RL as well.

"Courage, my friend, it's not too late to make the world a better place."
~ Tommy Douglas
Ranma Tardis

Re: What should we do?

Post by Ranma Tardis »

Rosie Gray wrote:
Ranma Tardis wrote:

As a member of the RA I should be able to make motions and introduce legislation without getting a majority beforehand. As I wrote am frustrated and will serve out my term and no more. We in the RA represent the citizens and should have the rights a member of the congress of the USA. Since we are so small I think one RA member brining up legistlation is enough. Anyhow I have been wasting my time and effort. If the CDS stands or falls it is in the hand of other people. I am going to step aside but do not expect me to rubber stamp yes on any vote!

I don't see anywhere that it says you have to have a majority beforehand to make motions and introduce legislation, Ranma. Sorry if you feel that you can't work within the frameworks of the CDS. The processes are slow it's true, but they usually are in RL as well.

So true and soon you can do it without me. I am nobodies doormat to wipe their feet. So I am going to teach you all about rl politics Democratic style. Come November you will have a new RA and things will be back to normal.

cleopatraxigalia
Forum Wizard
Forum Wizard
Posts: 1340
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:42 pm
Contact:

Re: What should we do?

Post by cleopatraxigalia »

Rationale for this idea............. IF CDS Profits, We all profit equally..........................Democratic Dividend

This plan ultimately attempts to provide incentive for the fiscal stability of CDS by motivating long term citizenship and encouraging participation in the community, making us all absolute stakeholders in the communities success. It provides a demonstration of the Value of Citizens to the CDS. It is designed to do provide incentive for the following things which it is hoped will eventually bring in more revenue to CDS and balance the budget, by :

Increasing each citizen"s sense of ownership in CDS and give true meaning to the statement that we are a community
“run by the citizens and owned by the citizens" .

· Encourage more and give meaning to participation in the day to day operations and maintenance of a fiscally sound community by encouraging the active ongoing participation and volunteer efforts of all citizens.

· Make a demonstrable statement that all citizens are equally recognized and entitled to the benefits of the community just by being a citizen.

· Encourage the proper long term growth of CDS and increase the commitment of citizens. Encourage on time tier payment and long term residency ,thusly, Encourage a stable citizen base.

Decrease the government workload by increasing incentive for citizens to maintain on time payments and long term parcel ownership.

· Bring a more overall sense of comradery and cohesion to the entire group by encouraging involvement of everyone, and giving each a sense of impact on a long term achievable measurable goal.

· Benefit our citizens who have less financial means to pay tier. Since the payment is a flat payment, equal for each citizen, the less land one owns, the more of the tier that is reimbursed at the end of the period.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CDS is not a private enterprise, not theoretically owned by one person or avatar… and indeed the citizens themselves are said to “own” CDS and have control of what could be described as the Virtual Micronation of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators. The evidence that the citizens have a say in the running of the CDS has been demonstrated by each citizen via the act of voting, when eligible, for a chancellor and representatives that act in the best interest of the citizens. Citizens are also able to submit bills to the government for its consideration and run for office when eligible.

A citizen is required to own at least one parcel on one of the five sims theoretically owned by CDS but in actuality owned by one person in real life, currently the estate manager (EO: Rudeen Erato).

To increase the sense of ownership of the sims themselves by citizens would increase the credibility of our experiment and make a clear statement to potential and current citizens of the CDS. To increase the sense equality and usefulness of every citizen would also encourage inclusion and discourage cliques and destructive behaviors of citizens. In order to encourage that we include everyone and make clear that everyone who is a citizen not only is equal in the eyes of the community and government but that they have great motivation to participate on a consistent and ongoing basis. This proposal attempts to increase the sense of ownership in CDS in a larger sense by not only owning the parcel they buy and maintain as a citizen but in the system as a whole. It attempts to give further motivation for participation by many, cooperation of all citizens, group cohesion and pride, and incentive for support of communnity.

The idea is that it will not only encourage growth but proper growth by drawing and engaging people who are eager to not only contribute by paying tier month to month but incentivize a long term commitment and support to the community.

It is proposed in order to provide Incentive to bring new citizens to CDS (sell parcels) and bring in ideas. Incentive for existing citizens to not only vote but actively participate in the big picture financial and community well being of the sims. i.e. support events financially, encourage new citizens to join and participate, encourage a positive community atmosphere open to all, encourage people to volunteer for projects that improve the community as a whole, give time to the community to build and support events, generally give their time and resources to the growth and maintenance of CDS.

A symbolic award system would be an outward visible sign, and is intended to provide a sense of “ownership” beyond how much land one owns. It attempts to give a further demonstrated sense that “all citizens are equal” in the eyes of the community. It will bring meaning to the statement that we are not a private enterprise and instead a land of citizens who have not only a say so in the activities of the government and its decisions but a true investment in its future and its growth and well being.

The Plan......... Valued Citizen Award:

In order to symbolize citizen ownership it is proposed that an annual payment be made to each eligible citizen out of the pre determined definition of profit from that specific year. These payments will NOT be related to the net worth of CDS or its reserves but purely on a year to year calculation of Money in and Money out during one pre- determined fiscal time period i.e. January 2020 to January 2021. The proposal is that a calculation of annual profit is determined and a percentage (not to exceed 20 per cent annually) of that total number is then split among the citizens of CDS. The payment is simply a symbolic representation of the fact that the citizens themselves do indeed “own” CDS and is not meant to make anyone a real profit or gain but a nod and gift to acknowledge participation at whatever level the person was able to participate during that time period .

· The determination of who is given the Valued Citizen Award payment is vitally important to this plan. It should be a standard higher than that of eligibility to vote. To be eligible one should be a citizen in good standing and have owned at least one parcel in CDS, and paid tier on time for all 12 months of the fiscal year of the payment calculation. They also must be a citizen in good standing through to and on the day the payments are made which should be at least 90 days after the end of the fiscal year calculation. In other words, to be paid the Valued Citizen Award one must have been a citizen in good standing with no lapse in ownership or on time tier payment for at least fifteen months.

· It is important that each citizen be awarded the same amount of payment. The payment per individual should not vary by the size of the parcel or number of parcels or service to the government. The award is an equal payment to all who meet the eligibility requirements.

· On a year that the CDS spends more money than it earns (through tier payment or other contribution) no VCA payments will NOT be made. This plan should never reduce the cash reserve of CDS or decrease its net worth but instead be tied to financial activities within the actual time period at hand.

Obviously, the calculation of the percentage of excess revenue for the year would need to be pre determined and set into law ahead of time. One example of how it might work, an initial thought on how this could be simply set up would be something like the following :

Total Tier Revenue PLUS Revenue from events or sales of assets* PLUS Donations

MINUS Linden Tier

MINUS Payment to government officials per the chancellor’s approved budget

EQUALS Total amount of excess revenue

20% TIMES Total amount of excess revenue

DIVIDED BY Total number of citizens eligible for Valued Citizen Award

(perhaps also apply cap) *

EQUALS Valued Citizen Award



* I would absolutely exclude the sale of any of the sims themselves as assets as I would hate to see a anyone think they could sell a sim and profit personally from this event

** There could be a cap on the amount of the payments.in effect, a not to exceed amount.

So, basically, to summarize, I am proposing in order to provide incentive for:
1. on time tier payment 2. long term commitment to CDS 3. participation in the greater good by everyone 4. encourage everyone to try to bring in new citizens who will be long term and participate 5. all plots to be sold 6. everyone to seek to maximize revenue.. and 7. benefit those who can least afford to pay tier...

We should consider that on a year that the CDS makes a profit we give back some of that ( not to exceed 20 percent) profit to the citizens who were involved for the entire time and in good standing the entire time, each citizen who meets these standards, being awarded an equal share of whatever the total Citizen award is determined to be.

alexia
Casual contributor
Casual contributor
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:43 am

Re: What should we do?

Post by alexia »

I am afraid it's not a matter of restrictions. Some succesfull sims (eg Martha's Vineyard) are MUCH more restrictive than LA. And alas NOBODY seems to respect restrictions so we have in LA wonderful Mosques with BELL TOWERS yes BELL TOWERS instead of minarets my god. I hate to say that, but i would prefer a well designed no mod LA (as Al Andalus was) to this useless debate on restrictions.

User avatar
Rosie Gray
Forum Wizard
Forum Wizard
Posts: 2084
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:47 am

Re: What should we do?

Post by Rosie Gray »

alexia wrote:

I am afraid it's not a matter of restrictions. Some succesfull sims (eg Martha's Vineyard) are MUCH more restrictive than LA. And alas NOBODY seems to respect restrictions so we have in LA wonderful Mosques with BELL TOWERS yes BELL TOWERS instead of minarets my god. I hate to say that, but i would prefer a well designed no mod LA (as Al Andalus was) to this useless debate on restrictions.

Actually, I think that most people do respect the covenants (with noteable exceptions), but in the case of LA they are far too restrictive to the ancient time period. I think that Tor's proposal will be much more attractive to most people, but will still make it a perfectly acceptable location for ancient too (as in The Time Machine). I personally found AA rather bland because it was created by basically one person.

Good point about the bell tower - although not all mosques have minarets, certainly the vast majority of them do.

What I despair of more, is when a building is created that is not realistic - i.e. it has see-through openings on one side of the wall, and it appears to be solid on the other side, or when pillars don't rest on anything but thin air - that kind of thing.

"Courage, my friend, it's not too late to make the world a better place."
~ Tommy Douglas
User avatar
Trebor Warcliffe
Master Word Wielder
Master Word Wielder
Posts: 412
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:26 am

Re: What should we do?

Post by Trebor Warcliffe »

I'd like us not to go past the 'median point' that you note above Treb. The point is that we have money so we aren't in any danger of going broke, but raising the tier might detract anyone new. Do we really want to become what would be considered a 'highly priced' group of sims?

I’m not quite sure what ‘median point’ you’re referring to but yes I do agree that we are not in any immediate danger of going broke. However I disagree with you that raising the tier to its proposed level would classify us as a ‘highly priced’ group of sims. The proposed tier is still competitive and lower than many other sims on the grid.

But, we AREN'T a business! We are more like a micronation. We aren't here to make a profit.

I can agree with the statement that we aren’t a business and I can agree that we are more like a micro nation. I can even agree that we aren’t here to make a profit. We certainly aren’t here to lose money. Again it comes down to us being fiscally responsible. A micro nation will only exist for as long as it can sustain itself, it certainly wouldn’t be wise for it to continue to operate with a deficit each month.

I still think if we discontinue the sale of land we should expect 3 months of tier up front. Not sure how this works for land management though, since there still needs to be an actual transfer of land. I don't know if you can 'buy' land for $0L or not. I think on other sims where they do this, people are not actually buying, but they are renting instead (I think). This topic would need some research, in my opinion.

The simple solution in regards to the sale of land would be to place each parcel up for sale for L$1. This would allow the transfer of land from Rudeen to the new owner quick and painless. First I’ll review the technical aspect of requiring new citizens to pony up three months of tier and then I will clarify my personal opinion.

Every single Hippo box for an available parcel for sale would have to be manually reset to only accept a three month minimum upon new ownership. After that three month tier is paid we would have to go back in and reset the Hippo box to accept monthly payments from there. As an individual who along with others worked on the set-up and implementation of the Hippo system I can assure you this requirement would be a major pain in the ass.

Now on a personal level here is why I can’t agree with requiring new citizens to pay three months tier up front. I own a 1024sqm double prim parcel in Alpine Meadows. If I was a new citizen it would cost me over $40.00 up front to call the CDS home. How is that making it easy and affordable for us to attract new citizens? Currently if a new citizen wanted to acquire a 1,024sqm parcel in Alpine Meadows they would pay approximately US$ 12.30 for the purchase of the land and US$ 13.39 for one month tier. So instead of a new citizen paying $25.69 to become a citizen you’re going to require them to pay over $40.00. I’m sorry but that makes absolutely no sense. I stand behind my original feelings of discontinuing the refund of tier for all parcels and allow new people to join us for L$1 plus one month’s tier.

All I can say about this is that I would have helped if I could, but I was too busy in RL. I also had absolutely no personal interest in a Valentine's ball, but I did help with setting up the site.

Perhaps there wasn't enough consultation with citizens on if they had any interest in the acts? I personally am completely uninterested in karaoke 'musicians', who are not actually musicians, pretending to be famous RL people. I like to go to concerts where the artists are accomplished RL musicians playing real instruments, who sing in tune and on pitch, ... so, no idea what everyone else thinks, but I just wouldn't want to spend my valuable time at those types of events. Sorry. I also didn't like the massive stage that was out of character for the sim, but I wouldn't have voted against it - that's just not my taste. I really don't think that those types of acts bring anyone to the sims who are remotely interested in even looking around, let alone joining our group. Just my opinion perhaps, but prove me wrong!

You make valid points about the various events I held during my two terms in the CDS but whether they were popular or not to our citizens the main objective to each and every one of them was to increase traffic in the CDS and make more people aware of our presence. I’m sure things could have been done such as giving each visitor a gift pack with cool freebies along with a little bit of information about our community. Getting people to visit is only one half of the job. The other half is how we capitalize on their presence. Compare holding events and increasing traffic to direct mail in real life. The industry standard for a response to direct mail is 1%. For every 100 direct mail pieces you send out you’re doing good if you can get 1 response. I see the similarities.

I thought it was worth a try, but I'm told that it didn't bring enough money in to warrant using the space, or more importantly the time it took to manage it.

No it didn’t bring enough money to warrant using the space and yes, trust me the time it took to manage it was quite time consuming. That wasn’t my intent to bringing it into the CDS. My point was to prove that we can generate traffic and sales in the CDS. Sales were made, traffic was generated. We didn’t technically earn a profit because I only invested in a 25% affiliate. Unlike an affiliate shop our merchants earn 100% of the income they generate. Tell me anything else in the history of the CDS that has generated 300+ visitors over a three to four month time period. In my opinion every merchant in the CDS would have benefited by opening up a shop within sight of this location. I know when I go visit a store in SL I always walk around and visit the other stores nearby.

It's a shame that the printing press hasn't been used. I don't really know who has access to it though.
I certainly would have helped you with textures - don't remember you asking about it.

Anyone who is a citizen of the CDS has access to the printing press. An avatar has been set-up to allow anyone who wants to use it to have that ability. I didn’t approach you about the textures for advertising because at the time you did let me know that you were busy with real life obligations and I didn’t want to add more work on your plate.

Let us move away from all of the "us" and "them" and turn our attention to "we."
alexia
Casual contributor
Casual contributor
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:43 am

Re: What should we do?

Post by alexia »

Good point about the bell tower - although not all mosques have minarets, certainly the vast majority of them do.

Having a muezzin singin from a bell tower sounds blasphemic both to christians and moslims. From an architectural point of view it's just simply horrible. And it has nothing to do with present LA covenants or "themes". Must we be tolerant because citizens "enjoy free building"? Oh. I didnt realize LA has become a sandbox and I possibly missed some discussion in here. Now I feel I am authorized to build the highest skyscraper in SL on my Time Machine plot, right? . Wonderful.

Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion”