Fairground Committee

[Tanoujin Milestone]

Dear Fellows, while we are able to welcome Kate Miranda as a new citizen and look forward to even more exciting news from the Cedar Island community, we are pondering over the budget, a tier increase and the future of LA.

But there is still another topic on the agenda, and it is an easy one in comparison: do we want to designate a public parcel as fairground, and which one could it be? Having failed to persuade legions of supporters to join the committee and play eager claqueurs to my idiosyncratic views I humbly ask you to consider if it was okay to:

recommend to ask the Chancellor to dedicate the Theatre Parcel in Colonia Nova to events which meet the characteristics of a fair (to be discussed)

recommend to ask the guild to redesign the whole parcel according to that needs.

Your comments here on the forums are very welcome - furthermore you are invited to attend a discussion on 2013-07-27, 10 am SLT at To Limani, the harbor district of Locus Amoenus.

[Tanoujin Milestone]

2013-07-27
[10:08] Tanoujin Milestone: Well, okay, should we wait another 5 minutes?
[10:09] Fern Leissa: Sure I guess it would be nice if Bags came..
[10:09] Lilith Ivory: I see a lot of citizens online who don´t seem to be interested in a fairground project
[10:09] Tanoujin Milestone: Yes, that is true, and no wonder
[10:09] Lilith Ivory: maybe we should add this to the protocol too
[10:09] Fern Leissa: Yeah... maybe the issue has faded
[10:09] Tanoujin Milestone: i know Bag's position quite good...
[10:09] Lilith Ivory: let´s add the thing to the top 10 list of things we don´t need
[10:10] Fern Leissa: hehe
[10:10] Tanoujin Milestone: oh, faded? No it is just not much interest
[10:10] Tanoujin Milestone: you say we do not need it? Lilith?
[10:10] Tanoujin Milestone: but we could combine it with a redesign of the theatre parcel as a whole....
[10:10] Fern Leissa: I wish we'd use Marketplatz more
[10:10] Lilith Ivory: we did not need it in the past as people having temp events on empty parcels was always fine
[10:11] Fern Leissa: Yeah... that's what I'm thinking. I'ts not like we have a ton of events.
[10:11] Lilith Ivory: indeed
[10:11] Fern Leissa: I'm kinda wondering if this wasn't more of a covenant issue that a fairground question
[10:11] Tanoujin Milestone: and the necessity to redesign the parcel? Isn't that a motivator?
[10:11] Lilith Ivory: and also we have the platz, the schloss and the docks already- and the harbour of course
[10:12] Tanoujin Milestone: oh, I hear you....
[10:12] Lilith Ivory: those places just don´t work for bumpercars and rollercoeaster and such
[10:12] Tanoujin Milestone: i see no harm in having a new theatre parcel adapted to special needs....
[10:13] Lilith Ivory: but I wonder how many people use those things anyway
[10:13] Fern Leissa: And the amphitheatre
[10:13] Lilith Ivory: I see no harm in that too
[10:13] Tanoujin Milestone: yes?
[10:13] Lilith Ivory: Hi Rosie
[10:13] Fern Leissa: I heard a thud
[10:13] Fern Leissa: Rosie...hi
[10:13] Tanoujin Milestone: I see Rosie is on... ah, here she is
[10:13] Tanoujin Milestone: ,Hi Rosie!
[10:13] Rosie Gray: hi Lil, Tan, Fern ㋡
[10:14] Tanoujin Milestone: Thanks for coming....
[10:14] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[10:14] Rosie Gray: sorry I'm late
[10:14] Lilith Ivory: we were just about to start
[10:14] Tanoujin Milestone: So far Fern and Lillith do not see the need to have a fairground, is that correct, you two?
[10:14] Tanoujin Milestone:
[10:14] Tanoujin Milestone: and yes, it started with a covenant issue...
[10:15] Lilith Ivory: yes but for me it´s also fine if some insist in having one
[10:15] Rosie Gray: naturally!
[10:15] Tanoujin Milestone: it would be a project...
[10:15] Lilith Ivory: we were about to start about rebuilding the theatre for multi uses
[10:15] Fern Leissa: huum... I see the need for one now and then but I like what we've done in the past....just set up on empty unsold land... esp because a fair is temp
[10:16] Tanoujin Milestone: true, true, Fern
[10:16] Tanoujin MilestoneTanoujin Milestone waves
[10:16] Tanoujin Milestone: Hi Em, nice to see you!
[10:16] Tanoujin Milestone: Take a seat
[10:16] Lilith Ivory: for some reason I am not sure if I like to mix the fairground project with the rebuilding of the theatre
[10:16] Em Warden: Hello, can I join the meeting?
[10:16] Fern Leissa: Hi Em
[10:16] Tanoujin Milestone: Please
[10:16] Lilith Ivory: hi Em
[10:16] Em Warden: Thanks
[10:16] Em Warden: Hi all:)
[10:16] Rosie Gray: hi Em
[10:17] Fern Leissa: Sorry... rebuilding what theatre
[10:17] Tanoujin Milestone: the Amphitheatre
[10:17] Tanoujin Milestone: or Arena
[10:17] Fern Leissa: Oh no... me neither
[10:17] Tanoujin Milestone: that is the next discussion
[10:17] Fern Leissa: I like the amphitheatre... unless it's a question of prim reduction
[10:17] Rosie GrayRosie Gray nods
[10:18] Rosie Gray: I like the idea of rebuilding the amphitheatre
[10:18] Lilith Ivory: well and also a question of finding a way that Widget is allowed to hold her events on the ground again
[10:18] Rosie Gray: I don't like the existing one
[10:18] Lilith Ivory: looks like nobody likes the old one much
[10:18] Tanoujin Milestone: I'd It is a bit of everything
[10:18] Tanoujin Milestone: somewhere in the middle
[10:18] Tanoujin Milestone: and outdated for sure
[10:19] Rosie Gray: when we are talking about a fairgrounds... what kind of fairgrounds?
[10:19] Lilith Ivory: did the guilt get the job of rebuildingit yet?
[10:19] Fern Leissa: Ok. But Brian built it... sentimental reasons I guess
[10:19] Rosie Gray: no Lilith
[10:19] Tanoujin Milestone: good question! The guild was asked to check the possibilities of rezzer software, I think
[10:19] Lilith IvoryLilith Ivory makes a note to make somebody requesting this
[10:20] Rosie Gray: which was totally unnecessary, since there is already a functioning example in the Kirche
[10:20] Rosie Gray:
[10:20] Tanoujin Milestone: heeeehehe
[10:20] Lilith IvoryLilith Ivory smiles
[10:20] Tanoujin Milestone: so, done
[10:20] Rosie Gray: which I said at the time, and so did Sudane
[10:20] Rosie Gray: lol
[10:20] Tanoujin Milestone: we can go on then, lol
[10:20] Lilith IvoryLilith Ivory giggles
[10:20] Rosie Gray: yup, lol
[10:21] Lilith IvoryLilith Ivory looks around and notices she is in the CDS, sighs and leans back
[10:21] Tanoujin Milestone: do we want rezzer software at the Theatre parcel to allow multiple usage?
[10:21] Rosie Gray: hahah, Lilith
[10:22] Lilith Ivory: I think this was the best way to make everybody happy
[10:22] Fern Leissa: Would we want to try and accomodate a fair in the amphitheatre? Or are we talking about two different things?
[10:22] Tanoujin Milestone: You know what, I give you the suggestion I prepared, what the Commission could report back to RA for decision, and you give me your opinion, okay?
[10:22] Rosie Gray: if we are talking about the type of fair we've had before, with a huge ferris wheel, etc
[10:22] Lilith Ivory: cool
[10:22] Rosie Gray: it would take up way more room
[10:22] Em Warden: ...and prims, I guess
[10:23] Rosie Gray: yes
[10:23] Rosie Gray: oh good idea Tan
[10:23] Lilith Ivory: I think so too Rosie and ya can´t put those items in a rezzer I think
[10:23] Rosie Gray: no you're right about that Lilith
[10:23] Tanoujin Milestone: okay,
[10:23] Lilith Ivory: they might not have the right permissions
[10:23] Rosie Gray: exactly
[10:23] Tanoujin Milestone: 1. recommend to ask the Chancellor to dedicate the Theatre Parcel in Colonia Nova to events which meet the characteristics of a fair (to be discussed)
[10:23] Tanoujin Milestone: 2. recommend to ask the guild to redesign the whole parcel according to that needs.
[10:23] Tanoujin Milestone: that's it
[10:23] Rosie Gray: short and sweet!
[10:24] Tanoujin Milestone: but you said it is too small, Rosie?
[10:24] Lilith Ivory: do you think it works to have a nice new amphitheatre AND place for a fairis weel?
[10:24] Tanoujin Milestone: yes, that is the point!
[10:24] Tanoujin Milestone: rezz the theatre, or a park, or whatever
[10:24] Tanoujin Milestone: is that possible?
[10:24] Em Warden: The amphi theatre don't have to be so b ig
[10:24] Lilith Ivory: those fair items need flat ground I guess
[10:25] Rosie Gray: yes they do
[10:25] Rosie Gray: but you can make a platform for them
[10:25] Lilith IvoryLilith Ivory nods
[10:25] Tanoujin Milestone: A bit of terraforming would not harm, hm?
[10:25] Rosie Gray: to be honest, I don't see a fairgrounds being workable with the amphitheatre
[10:25] Lilith Ivory: I agree with you Rosie!
[10:25] Tanoujin Milestone: aaaaha
[10:25] Rosie Gray: they are too different
[10:25] Tanoujin Milestone: okay
[10:26] Lilith Ivory: I wonder how many people use those anyway lol
[10:26] Rosie GrayRosie Gray shrugs
[10:26] Em Warden: Is there another piece of land for a small, intimate amphitheatre?
[10:26] Tanoujin Milestone: so the plan collides with the Amphitheatre
[10:26] Rosie Gray: you're right Em, it doesn't need to be so large
[10:26] Tanoujin MilestoneTanoujin Milestone listens
[10:26] Rosie Gray: and it could be a regular theatre, couldn't it?
[10:26] Rosie Gray: why does it need to be an amphitheatre?
[10:26] Lilith Ivory: I´d like to have the Amphitheatre where it is and leave the main structure
[10:26] Tanoujin Milestone: (this would make me very happy)
[10:27] Tanoujin Milestone: (a real theatre, that is)
[10:27] Lilith Ivory: my too, was just using the name
[10:27] Fern Leissa: I'd like to keep the amphitheatre too... and look for another plot(s) of land for a fairground
[10:27] Fern Leissa: Maybe keep it as a park when there is no fair in town
[10:28] Lilith IvoryLilith Ivory nods
[10:28] Em Warden: Flexible use- that's great
[10:28] Tanoujin Milestone: let us look then.... I can not think of anything but what you mentioned: empty parcels, the docks, what we used all the time
[10:28] Fern Leissa: I'm wondering about the two plots next to Bags library. Land is pretty level
[10:28] Tanoujin Milestone: they are private, leaseholds
[10:28] Lilith IvoryLilith Ivory looks at the water of the harbor and imagines a platform and a fair there
[10:28] Rosie Gray: are we expecting a fair to come to town soon?
[10:29] Tanoujin Milestone: yes, temporary use is possible
[10:29] Fern Leissa: hehe
[10:29] Lilith Ivory: I really don´t think there will be one besides the octoberfest
[10:29] Em Warden: Ah- Lilith- a platform in the water was exactly what I was thinking of, but I thought it impossible
[10:29] Tanoujin Milestone: but Queen's day?
[10:29] Rosie Gray: I don't see any problem with using the land that's not flat, and putting a platform on it
[10:29] Lilith Ivory: Queesnday is next spring
[10:30] Rosie Gray: Queen's day?
[10:30] Tanoujin Milestone: sometimes people want a little space to have fun - should be furthered if possible, no?
[10:30] Lilith Ivory: the event Naf wanted to hold and that started all that drama
[10:30] Rosie Gray: I agree we need to have some fun
[10:30] Tanoujin Milestone: the little event that made Bags build a wall
[10:30] Rosie Gray: oh I didn't hear about that
[10:30] Tanoujin Milestone: wasn't it queen's day?
[10:30] Tanoujin Milestone: tha bumper car event?
[10:30] Rosie Gray: aah
[10:30] Lilith Ivory: yes it was queensday
[10:30] Rosie Gray: okay
[10:31] Tanoujin Milestone: the whole discussion stems from there
[10:31] Tanoujin Milestone:
[10:31] Em Warden: It doesn't have to be organized events to have fun...
[10:31] Rosie Gray: but part of the problem there was that it was jst plunked down with no care to make it look integrated
[10:31] Lilith Ivory: Naf asked Tor if she could rez bumber cars in CN but Bags complained as it did not fit the covenant
[10:31] Tanoujin Milestone: both points are valid
[10:31] Em Warden: We could meet and dance to music streams whenever we feel like it, couldn't we?
[10:31] Rosie Gray: yes I remember now... didn't know it was for Queen's day
[10:32] Fern Leissa: But we did the same thing about two years ago bumper cars and all in LA where Tor has land now
[10:32] Tanoujin Milestone: Music in my ears, Em
[10:32] Rosie Gray: I like that Em
[10:32] Fern Leissa: It was private land...it was temp. and there was no fuss??
[10:32] Rosie Gray: yes
[10:32] Tanoujin Milestone: more of that hehe
[10:32] Lilith Ivory: me too
[10:32] Rosie Gray: as far as I know there was no fuss anyway
[10:32] Lilith Ivory: we never had fuss before
[10:32] Tanoujin Milestone: okay, where are we?
[10:33] Rosie Gray: but that was when the Chancellor did it, not a citizen
[10:33] Tanoujin Milestone: We do not need a fairground?
[10:33] Tanoujin Milestone: the Amphitheatre should be redone?
[10:33] Rosie Gray: yes
[10:33] Fern Leissa: I think it was the Chancellor last time too/ Do you remember Lilith?
[10:33] Lilith Ivory: Tor asked me to help Naf to make it look nicer but the drama has already started before I could get in touch with her
[10:33] Tanoujin Milestone: such happens
[10:33] Rosie Gray: ah, too bad
[10:33] Tanoujin Milestone: let us see it as an accident
[10:34] Lilith Ivory: Naf asked Tor for permission and he agreed to it
[10:34] Rosie Gray: oh okay... didn't hear that part
[10:34] Rosie Gray: so partly it was that there should be parameters set for something like that, if a citizen is going to do it
[10:34] Rosie Gray: no?
[10:35] Rosie Gray: like expectation that it is integrated into the landscape properly
[10:35] Lilith Ivory: might be a good idea but we can not expect all citizens to be good enough as builder to make it nice
[10:35] Rosie Gray: right, but they can ask for help from the guild
[10:35] Rosie Gray: and then that would give the guild members some projects
[10:35] Lilith Ivory: maybe the citizens should do it together with someone from the guild
[10:35] Rosie Gray: to be helpful
[10:35] Lilith Ivory: great minds
[10:36] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[10:36] Tanoujin Milestone: I think we have a result.
[10:36] Rosie Gray: but back to the amphitheatre
[10:36] Rosie Gray: I like your proposal, Tan
[10:36] Lilith Ivory: maybe we need to write dwon that temporary events don´t have to fit the covenant
[10:36] Tanoujin Milestone: We do not need a fairground. THe guild should be asked to set such up
Tanoujin Milestone: the Amphitheatre should be redone
[10:37] Rosie GrayRosie Gray nods
[10:37] Fern Leissa: Yes Lilith that's a way to handle it with some sort of specific time limit
[10:37] Lilith Ivory: exactly
[10:37] Tanoujin Milestone: Do you really want that, Lilith? And where?
[10:37] Tanoujin Milestone: In the covenant?
[10:37] Lilith Ivory: naw in your proposal maybe
[10:37] Tanoujin Milestone: a law is overdone imo
[10:37] Tanoujin Milestone: ahhh, okay
[10:37] Fern Leissa: Yes... it seems to be a covenant issue
[10:38] Rosie Gray: wait now....
[10:38] Rosie Gray: it's great to say doesn't have to fit the covenant, for a fairground
[10:38] Rosie Gray: but what if it was something way over the top?
[10:38] Rosie Gray: like... I don't know... a spaceship exhibit
[10:38] Lilith IvoryLilith Ivory laughs and nods
[10:38] Tanoujin MilestoneTanoujin Milestone nods
[10:39] Rosie Gray: personally, I think it would be fine
[10:39] Rosie Gray: just asking
[10:39] Fern Leissa: If it were a spaceship and was only up for say... 10 days, could we like with that
[10:39] Tanoujin Milestone: I would prefer to let the chancellor handle that
[10:39] Fern Leissa: *live
[10:39] Tanoujin Milestone: i could, yes
[10:39] Rosie Gray: might be kinda fun, actually
[10:39] Lilith Ivory: I think so too and what is a spaceship exhibit for one citizen might be a rolercoeaster for another citizen
[10:39] Rosie Gray: hehe
[10:39] Tanoujin Milestone: but, see, the RA will have to find a place to state it at last
[10:39] Fern Leissa: Yes.. that's for the Chancellor but he needs the covenant for "back-up"
[10:39] Lilith Ivory: as long as it´s not there for longer than say 4 weeks
[10:39] Tanoujin Milestone: the time limit
[10:40] Em Warden: Maybe the guild could have a group for approval of themes for events?
[10:40] Fern Leissa: We redid the covenant earlier specifically for that reason
[10:40] Tanoujin Milestone: and it comes down to code of law or covenant again
[10:40] Rosie Gray: yes Fern did a lot of work on the covenants
[10:40] Lilith Ivory: we need to change the covenant quickly anyway as it seems
[10:40] Lilith IvoryLilith Ivory grins and looks down the road to Kates house
[10:40] Tanoujin Milestone: maybe you could help to find a good formula, Fern?
[10:41] Rosie Gray: lol
[10:41] Tanoujin Milestone: shshsh
[10:41] Rosie Gray: but isn't it the perogative of the RA to decide this?
[10:41] Lilith Ivory: it´s a nice house and I have the same on my homestead
[10:41] Tanoujin MilestoneTanoujin Milestone looks around in sudden panic
[10:41] Fern Leissa: hehe... yes covenant thingies... sigh
[10:41] Tanoujin Milestone: to decide, yes
[10:41] Tanoujin Milestone: on well prepared suggestions :=)
[10:41] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[10:41] Tanoujin Milestone: in endless discussions
[10:42] Em WardenEm Warden smiles
[10:42] Rosie Gray: well I suggest that we change the LA covenant to be a generic Mediterranean theme... blah blah (said it all before)
[10:42] Rosie Gray: lol
[10:42] Tanoujin Milestone: and I aagree, as always
[10:42] Fern Leissa: I think the RA approves covenant changes but the exec has to interpret and enforce
[10:42] Lilith Ivory: I totally agree with Rosie - as always
[10:43] Lilith IvoryLilith Ivory grins
[10:43] Rosie Gray: I don't know what we are waiting for, frankly
[10:43] Lilith Ivory: me neither
[10:43] Tanoujin Milestone: we need the text
[10:43] Lilith Ivory: I think here also the guild needs to be given the job so we can start working
[10:43] Em Warden: Would an amphitheatre fit the Mediterraininam theme?
[10:43] Tanoujin Milestone: sure
[10:43] Fern Leissa: Right... Somebody needs to draft the LA covenant change and get an ra member to bring to ra meeting
[10:43] Lilith Ivory: sure as there are a lot of old ones still around
[10:44] Rosie Gray: but the ampthitheatre is on another sim
[10:44] Em Warden: Oh- sorry...
[10:44] Tanoujin Milestone: which has the same covenant...
[10:44] Rosie Gray: true
[10:44] Tanoujin Milestone: ups
[10:44] Rosie Gray: so that brings it up for there too
[10:44] Lilith IvoryLilith Ivory whispers: Sudanes old buildings look more mediteran than roman anyway
[10:44] Rosie Gray: same arguements hold, I think
[10:44] Fern Leissa: No.. CN is Germany under the romans... LA has been more roman roman
[10:44] Tanoujin Milestone: not necessarily
[10:44] Rosie Gray: totally agree, Lil
[10:45] Rosie Gray: but isn't it frozen in ancient times, Fern?
[10:45] Fern Leissa: There used to be a Greek presence in LA but they left... that's the reason for the architecture... Greek port in ancient roman empire... somewhere vague
[10:46] Tanoujin Milestone: yes, got that
[10:46] Lilith Ivory: let´s just forget about the old covenant and make something new mediteran
[10:46] Tanoujin Milestone: could be still the same, just 400 years later
[10:46] Rosie Gray: some people have been suggesting Tuscany
[10:46] Lilith Ivory: I like that too
[10:47] Fern Leissa: Yes... LA doesn't really have to be consistent with CN or Alpine..etc. Tuscan is not a bad idea
[10:47] Tanoujin Milestone: thumb up
[10:47] Tanoujin Milestone: brb
[10:47] Fern Leissa: but... wondering about CI pp...no idea what they would want
[10:47] Lilith Ivory: at least Kate seems to want something more modern
[10:48] Rosie Gray: I think they don't care that much
[10:48] Fern Leissa: ... yup. I'm guessing that
[10:48] Tanoujin Milestone: b, sorry
[10:48] Rosie Gray: other than, more modern I mean
[10:48] Fern Leissa: Good Rosie... than that would make it simpler
[10:48] Lilith Ivory: wb
[10:48] Fern Leissa: wb Tan
[10:48] Lilith IvoryLilith Ivory smiles
[10:48] Tanoujin Milestone: ty
[10:49] Tanoujin Milestone: fine, I see a lot of work for the guild....
[10:49] Tanoujin Milestone: and who is that?
[10:49] Rosie Gray: hahhah
[10:49] Tanoujin Milestone: Us
[10:49] Rosie Gray: yup
[10:49] Em Warden: If we ask them to rent parcels close to each other, they could have a partofte simto build whatever they want (almost) and have some kinfd of border between the CI folks and the rest of LA
[10:50] Lilith Ivory: we talked about all this several times before and I think all we need is someone to write the proposal so we can start working on it
[10:50] Rosie Gray: I agree Lil
[10:50] Em Warden: (Em's space bar is on a strike)
[10:50] Fern Leissa: hehe
[10:50] Rosie Gray: but it would need to be approved by the RA
[10:50] Rosie Gray: hehhe, Em
[10:50] Lilith Ivory: those Cedar people seem to be smart guys and I think they are able to tell us what they want - if they want something special
[10:51] Tanoujin MilestoneTanoujin Milestone wants to wait until it turns out to be more than a storm in the waterglass
[10:51] Lilith IvoryLilith Ivory is quite tired of waiting already
[10:51] Rosie Gray: me too
[10:52] Rosie Gray: all we do is talk
[10:52] Tanoujin Milestone: i mean the CI specifics, Lilith
[10:52] Rosie Gray: oh... yes agree with that Tan
[10:52] Tanoujin Milestone: i would go without, modernize and leave room
[10:52] Lilith IvoryLilith Ivory nods
[10:52] Rosie Gray: it really sounds like they don't need anything specific right now
[10:53] Lilith Ivory: well ... if we start working on getting started there will be plenty of time to wait for CI
[10:53] Em Warden: Exactly
[10:53] Tanoujin Milestone: Thats true, Lilith, good. Do you want me to post the transcript, or a summary?
[10:53] Tanoujin Milestone: I would like to close the first part
[10:53] Lilith Ivory: I have no problem with getting transcripted
[10:54] Tanoujin Milestone: before it broadens
[10:54] Lilith Ivory: either way is fine for me
[10:54] Rosie Gray: good idea Tan
[10:54] Rosie Gray: and I agree with being transcripted
[10:54] Tanoujin Milestone: thank you - Em, Fern?
[10:54] Fern Leissa: Yes.. transcripted ...fine
[10:55] Em Warden: I have no objections to transcription, it probably saves a lot of time
[10:55] Tanoujin Milestone: great, dicussion closed - conversation now

[Tanoujin Milestone]

Committee Report:

The committee met on 2013-07-27. It stated there was no need to have a fairground. The executive should go on to direct temporary events to empty unsold parcels and public land as the Marktplatz, Schloss, the Docks, the Amphitheatre and LA harbor. The Amphitheatre parcel should not be used for fairs, the committee prefers the use of private unsold land here. The guild offers assistance and quality assurance for setting up temporary events out of covenant run by citizens.

Summary: the Committee recommends to drop the topic and keep the established executive routines to handle events.

Sidenotes: the Committee recommends to order the guild to redesign the Amphitheatre. Further it recommends to rewrite the Locus Amoenus covenant to cover rules for events and a change of the sim theme as already discussed.

[Bagheera]

I wish I had been at this meeting - unfortunately there was a mix up about times so I was at the place and time I thought it was and no one was there, whereas this meeting happened and I wasn't there.

The statement by Lilith that using unsold parcels in the past has NEVER been a problem is inaccurate, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion.

When Calli first suggested the concept of a Fairgrounds during an RA meeting, the response was an overwhelmingly positive yes.

I am really disappointed in the discussion that happened here because we have 5 people who mostly seem to be looking at this from their own perspective instead of looking at the needs of the community at large.

The discussion about LA's covenants seems out of order in this meeting, especially the comments about needing to be changed quickly to accommodate a particular avatar's recent build seems truly to be about serving the needs of the few over paying attention to the residents of the sim as a whole.

NO one I have talked to liked the stage over the quay but this committee seems to think that was a fine thing.

NO one at this committee even talked about the pragmatic logistics of using the Amphitheater parcel. Do any of you even know (except Tan, who I showed) HOW big it is, how much unused open space there is in the corner?

From the outside edge of the coliseum to the sim edge / from the roadside to the sim edge = 42 x 58 meters. What occupies this space is a tree owned by CDS and some rocks I put there to provide congruity after the Al Andalus sims were detached. On the other side is another 20x42 of space occupied by an aqueduct no one visits. NONE of this was disclosed or discussed at this meeting. The citizens who live on the other side of the road have a wall creating a separation from their properties and the road with their lands following a downhill slope with their main view facing the opposite direction from the amphitheater, meaning whatever would be put in the amphitheater parcel would be as out of the way as anything could be on CDS lands.

How can you even claim to have considered a space without even looking at it?! You discarded it out of hand in favor of doing things the old way, a way that has caused citizens unhappiness in the past.

Unbelievable.

[Rosie Gray]

The statement by Lilith that using unsold parcels in the past has NEVER been a problem is inaccurate, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Bags, when Lilith made that statement she was referring to previously used parcels for events, before your most recent complaint. At least that was my understanding of it.

I am really disappointed in the discussion that happened here because we have 5 people who mostly seem to be looking at this from their own perspective instead of looking at the needs of the community at large.

That is completely unfair. I know that ALL of us have nothing but the best intentions for the entire community, and ALL of us have devoted much of our time, money, and other resources to the CDS.

The discussion about LA's covenants seems out of order in this meeting, especially the comments about needing to be changed quickly to accommodate a particular avatar's recent build seems truly to be about serving the needs of the few over paying attention to the residents of the sim as a whole.

Those were just side remarks, and given the fact that we have been talking for months about changing the covenants on LA I think completely acceptable. It is not about any particular avatar's recent build.

NO one I have talked to liked the stage over the quay but this committee seems to think that was a fine thing.

Not true. I didn't like the stage over the quay either, but we weren't talking about that particular setup.

NO one at this committee even talked about the pragmatic logistics of using the Amphitheater parcel. Do any of you even know (except Tan, who I showed) HOW big it is, how much unused open space there is in the corner?

We are all well acquianted with the pragmatic logistics of the ampthitheatre parcel. If you had been there you could have asked, but please don't assume we didn't know what we were talking about.

Unbelievable.

You are welcome to disagree, but can we not maintain some respect for each other's viewpoints?

[Bagheera]

Rosie, I HAVE complained in the past. Back in 2010, my first year in CDS, I owned 4 parcels in LA and I was appalled to log in and see the bumper cars hanging in the air on a platform across the river back then. I think I didn't say anything that time, but the next time, when the ferris wheel was installed in Locus Amoenus, I did complain to the chancellor, and again when the stage was put over the quay. This has been an issue for me for years. I don't know of official complaints, but others have complained in my presence about things such as the hot air balloon and the stage over the quay. I am not sure how the stage over the quay is not relevant to this discussion, it seems very relevant, as it is exactly the type of thing we are talking about - a short term event completely out of theme.

At the RA meeting when I brought up using the amphitheater parcel, no one in attendance knew any of the particulars about it. How would I know from THIS transcript that ignorance had not been alleviated? There is no mention of any of the qualities, good or bad, of the amphitheater space except a general mention that it would need to be terraformed - a statement that is pretty much true of anywhere in CDS.

You say I should respect other people's viewpoints but I really feel mine aren't being respected.

Last time, when I complained about the bumper cars in CN, I was chewed out by someone in IM. They said I wasn't letting them have their fun. Well, in my world view, one's permission to behave a certain way ends when it infringes on someone else's rights. They said I wasn't letting them have their fun but it was at my expense. Any resident of CDS who has read the covenants will have a reasonable expectation of how things should be. When those expectations aren't treated evenhandedly, it is very disturbing and not fun at all.

[Rosie Gray]

I stand corrected about the complaints you've made, and perhaps others have made, about previous special event setups. In reflection, I've complained myself about some of them (notably the massive rock stage).

Really, I do agree with you Bags on this point! However I see these setups as fairly fleeting and so I dont' give them the same weight as 'permanent' builds. In my view, I think we need to be a little accepting of temporary amusements even if we personally don't like them or aren't interested in them. It's a bit of live and let live

[Shep]

I for one am extremely disappointed by this... your remit for the Fairground Committee was NOT to decide if you thought it was a good idea ... but to establish the best place for one!

The dreadful fuss created over the bumper cars proved that using empty parcels is NOT a solution .. we have our own heavy duty rides that come out from time to time and they are'nt exactly in covenant .. so the idea was to find a place for temporary events that are away from the residential areas ... and it needs to be a large size ... we still need a fairground place ...

[Bagheera]

I'm going to rein in the rant and endeavor to say this in a constructive manner.

If I had been at the meeting (which I had truly wanted to be at and made every good faith effort to get to), here is what I would have said:

1. Whether or not a majority wants a fairground, there is a minority who does want out-of-covenant events in a controlled space and isn't happy with the current setup of just using whatever unsold land is available. Also, if we accomplish our goal of filling up the sims, there isn't going to be unsold land.

2. What is the downside to creating a fairground space? I don't think there is any. Is it really that much trouble?

3. Is there a reasonable place to establish a fairground space? I think yes. i think the corner of the sim that is part of the amphitheater parcel is a perfect spot, it is large and out of the way and woefully underutilized. There may be other places as well, but, in my opinion, that space would be ideal.

Thank you for listening.

[Ranma Tardis]

I'm going to rein in the rant and endeavor to say this in a constructive manner.

If I had been at the meeting (which I had truly wanted to be at and made every good faith effort to get to), here is what I would have said:

1. Whether or not a majority wants a fairground, there is a minority who does want out-of-covenant events in a controlled space and isn't happy with the current setup of just using whatever unsold land is available. Also, if we accomplish our goal of filling up the sims, there isn't going to be unsold land.

2. What is the downside to creating a fairground space? I don't think there is any. Is it really that much trouble?

3. Is there a reasonable place to establish a fairground space? I think yes. i think the corner of the sim that is part of the amphitheater parcel is a perfect spot, it is large and out of the way and woefully underutilized. There may be other places as well, but, in my opinion, that space would be ideal.

Thank you for listening.

Tan I tried to get the reported by the RA but Shep will hear nothing. I will propose it for the next RA meeting.

[Ranma Tardis]

I for one am extremely disappointed by this... your remit for the Fairground Committee was NOT to decide if you thought it was a good idea ... but to establish the best place for one!

The dreadful fuss created over the bumper cars proved that using empty parcels is NOT a solution .. we have our own heavy duty rides that come out from time to time and they are'nt exactly in covenant .. so the idea was to find a place for temporary events that are away from the residential areas ... and it needs to be a large size ... we still need a fairground place ...

I am disappointed with you! They tried hard to help CDS but you dumped on them!

[Shep]

Re: Fairground Committee

Postby Ranma Tardis » Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:42 pm

Shep wrote:I for one am extremely disappointed by this... your remit for the Fairground Committee was NOT to decide if you thought it was a good idea ... but to establish the best place for one!

The dreadful fuss created over the bumper cars proved that using empty parcels is NOT a solution .. we have our own heavy duty rides that come out from time to time and they are'nt exactly in covenant .. so the idea was to find a place for temporary events that are away from the residential areas ... and it needs to be a large size ... we still need a fairground place ...

I am disappointed with you! They tried hard to help CDS but you dumped on them!

User avatar
Ranma Tardis
Pundit
Pundit

Posts: 378
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:48 pm
Location: Caledon 2

I beg your pardon?? What am I supposed to have done? And on the previous post to Tan .. you tried to get something on RA? .. WHEN have you asked me to put something on the agenda? The agenda has to be published 24 hours before the meeting .. so no you can't turn up and get a motion voted on with no warning to the citizens who have a right of reply .... So please if you insist on posting about me .. please include FACTS ...

[Ranma Tardis]

The rules are too strict and not carried out in a fair manner. As I am a "lame duck" have nothing to lose by speaking out. Just like Orwell's animal farm, "All animals are equal but some are more equal than others"