Restarting the Social Democrats in Neualtenburg

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Jon Seattle
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SDF Group Also Controled by Ulrika and Kendra!?

Post by Jon Seattle »

I notice that the SDF group also include both Kendra and Ulrika as officers (Ulrika is the founder). Is it possible for someone to create an SDF group without them?

Thanks.

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Patroklus Murakami
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Re: SDF Group Also Controled by Ulrika and Kendra!?

Post by Patroklus Murakami »

[quote="Jon Seattle":3mrm7po7]I notice that the SDF group also include both Kendra and Ulrika as officers (Ulrika is the founder). Is it possible for someone to create an SDF group without them?

Thanks.[/quote:3mrm7po7]

That's also been a question on my mind. I want to remain a member of the Social Democratic Faction for the purposes of Neualtenburg's political system but I don't want to remain in a group led by Ulrika and Kendra given recent events and the way that Linden Labs choose to implement groups in SL.

Perhaps we remaining Social Democrats in Neualtenburg should form a new party? I can't log in for a few days but I'll be up for joining/starting a new party as soon as I can.

How does the "Democratic Socialist Party" sound to you?

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Beyond SDF?

Post by Jon Seattle »

Democratic Socialists sounds fine. I gather from a Scottish friend that in a European context, social-democrat and democratic-socialist can mean a somewhat different things?! I am not sure I understand, but perhaps SD is more into integrating markets.

I like markets when they mean free exchange, when undistorted by those with power setting the rules and grabbing the commons for their own profit. In SL the commons includes the visual and aural space we inevitably share. By putting the commons under democratic control, NB is really social-democratic.

And I think people should be guaranteed the resources and time needed to participate in democratic debate and the tools to develop themselves and their craft through their own labor.

Another option is something like New Social Democrats. I would happily join either.

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Moving mesages..

Post by Jon Seattle »

Moderator, could you please move the above three messages to the "Restarting" thread. Thanks!

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Re: Moving mesages..

Post by Diderot Mirabeau »

[quote="Jon Seattle":2ktcn0zr]Moderator, could you please move the above three messages to the "Restarting" thread. Thanks![/quote:2ktcn0zr]

Consider it done. I was unable to merge these posts with the one you posted yourself in the general discussion forum.

As I see it this discussion is on-topic both in the "Reconstruction" group and in the general discussion group so if you prefer to keep it in the Reconstruction group please don't hesitate to ask to have it moved back.

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Post by Flyingroc Chung »

If I'm not mistaken the current ranking member of the SDF would be Gwyneth. How about calling it "New SDF" ;-)

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Post by Gwyneth Llewelyn »

Well, at this juncture, I'm afraid I cannot be sure if the manifest for the SDF is meant as being honest or if it's just idle words; recent actions by some members have made me rethink about how serious I should take some of the items on the SDF platform.

So, from this moment on, I'll be formally resigning my allegiance to the SDF, and will remain "factionless" for a while.

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Center left?

Post by Jon Seattle »

For me, what happened does illustrate that some of the SDF leadership was not serious about democratic values. As and my own support for social democracy has its origin in democratic ideals, this is quite a disappointment. (IMO I can’t imagine the persons in question ever were really social democrats.)

As someone who has center-left values and politics, who can represent me in NB’s planning and decision making? In RL I live in a small, progressive, University centered city, but for the most part the US is very right wing (and not center-right as far as I can tell). I feel the need to try to restart a center-left party here in order to have a voice.

As I am very new in NB, I am joining a long conversation in progress so I do not know much of the history and personalities. I do know the fact that NB citizens have been thinking and debating what public policy might look like in the virtual world is one of the things that brought me here.

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Re: Center left?

Post by Dianne »

[quote="Jon Seattle":2ri60b1p]For me, what happened does illustrate that some of the SDF leadership was not serious about democratic values. As and my own support for social democracy has its origin in democratic ideals, this is quite a disappointment. (IMO I can’t imagine the persons in question ever were really social democrats.)....[/quote:2ri60b1p]Like many of the folks here, I also count myself in RL as a Democratic Socialist but I also only briefly thought of joining the Neualtenburg SDF before I found out the personalities involved. The (to me) quasi fascist looking logo was also a big turn off being the very visual-oriented sort of person I am.

My advice is to just start your own new party and try to recruit members from the ranks of the old SDF.

I think Ulrika as founder of the SDF might be posting in this forum in the near future with the historical background of the SDF party.

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Re: Center left?

Post by Aliasi Stonebender »

[quote="Jon Seattle":125ff5y1]
As I am very new in NB, I am joining a long conversation in progress so I do not know much of the history and personalities. I do know the fact that NB citizens have been thinking and debating what public policy might look like in the virtual world is one of the things that brought me here.[/quote:125ff5y1]

So far, there's two other factions in NB.

The MPP - Moderate People's Party - was formed... well, mostly as a reaction to the old SDF. It's fairly centrist.

The DPU - Democratic Pragmatists Union - was started to focus on specific issues. Insofar as the DPU's continued existence is justified, I think it's fair to say we (since I'm in the DPU) find the left-right, progressive-conservative, socialist-libertarian grids of RL politics to be of little value in the virtual environment we are in. Thus, the DPU is much less concerned with grand theories and more about keeping N'burg a going concern. The [i:125ff5y1]general[/i:125ff5y1] thrust could be considered more libertarian than the MPP... if only 'cause I am and I have a loud mouth. ;)

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Post by Claude Desmoulins »

As the DPU founder and faction head, I'd like to expand on Aliasi's comments. When I looked at the platforms of the SDF and MPP in January, I saw a lot of theory and very little platform language addressing the pressing problems of the city (constitutional reform, independence from a single avatar, etc.) Instead there were calls for multi-sim expansion and large scale privatization.

Not seeing a platform that focused on solving problems, I wrote one. Since that point the DPU has always been about seeking the common ground and finding compromise solutions. I think that's part of why the RA has accomplished as much as it has in the present term.

I believe there are still great challenges facing our community and that the problem solving, compromising spirit the DPU seeks to demonstrate will continue to serve us well.

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SL and vision..

Post by Jon Seattle »

Thanks Claude. Of course, I am an engineer at my day job so I appreciate practical solutions. I get the impression that you and the DPU have done some really very important things for NB.

Having said that, I really do think there is potential for democratic institutions on-line. Of course we cannot build models that work it won’t do any good. If we can, however, they can be replicated.

SL as designed reflects a libertarian view that puts the market above community and consensus building. I do want democracy to become an option for everyone. This is perhaps the critical difference between an online gated community, and a community that reflects a larger vision and responsibility in the world.

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Citizen's Social Democratic Party

Post by Jon Seattle »

I've taken Dianne's advice and started a new group:

[b:gtk7o9uv]Citizen's Social Democratic Party[/b:gtk7o9uv]

With the idea that this will become a faction when we get together to write a platform. This is intended to be a center-left party with an emphasis on collaboration and community building.

As this is not yet an official faction, you need not rush to resign from other parties to join. I would like to arrange a meeting in the next few days to work out the details. More tomorrow.

Thank you all!

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Post by Gwyneth Llewelyn »

Please count me in for being at that meeting ;)

Being one of the very few persons in SL that is accused to be a left-winger by most right-wingers, and a dangerous right-wing extremist (ie. fascist) by most left-wingers, I'm probably something in the middle ;) so be warned...

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Re: Citizen's Social Democratic Party

Post by Diderot Mirabeau »

[quote="Jon Seattle":71i5l7o4]I would like to arrange a meeting in the next few days to work out the details. More tomorrow.[/quote:71i5l7o4]

Excellent news! We can definitely use some more events going on in Neualtenburg. Be sure to post an announcement of the event in our event forum when you've got it up and running. If you need a place to stage it I offer my residence in the far SW corner of the sim as available. However, I'm sure that any of the public buildings such as the biergarten will be equally useable for the purpose.

Last edited by Diderot Mirabeau on Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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