For RA (SC?) review, please -resolution re: group-owned land

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Bagheera
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For RA (SC?) review, please -resolution re: group-owned land

Post by Bagheera »

This discussion got waylaid without resolution here:

http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... =15#p24225

This link above contains most (if not all) of the relevant reference links

My post summarized the issue as follows:

Personally, I don't care whether land is owned by groups or not, or if people interpret CDSL 16-03 as abolishing group land, which I think it does and others on the RA over the past two years have presumed it did... or just affecting citizenship, which some of you now claim was the "intent." However, if your (Delia's) interpretation holds sway, then we should immediately re-institute following the procedures spelled out by NL5-9 Group Land Ownership Act and NL 7-7 (Amendment to NL5-9)... The presumption had been the CDSL 16-03 removed the need for this procedure but if it doesn't, we should be continuing to follow it then.

Currently, we do have one group that has over 8192m of deeded land, which is more than a single avatar is allowed. It would be good to get this resolved, in my opinion. Thank you.

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Re: For RA (SC?) review, please -resolution re: group-owned

Post by Shep »

Just in time to grab Pip's land ?

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Re: For RA (SC?) review, please -resolution re: group-owned

Post by Tor Karlsvalt »

Holdings of the AMUA were aquired before these laws were written to limit holdings. Bags and the Xigalia regime are suggesting to use current law to break up Pip's holdings. All of this land in AMUA must have been in the group since 2009!

This is quite amazing coming from politicians who decried any legitimate use of eminent domaine. Now, apparently the power of law is subverted into a tool against the people with the claim that the RA could lawfully merely force a citizen to sell their land.

I note also thar the Monastery is group land as well. It is owned by an AV owned by a group. Would the monastery's status be changed as well?

Last edited by Tor Karlsvalt on Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: For RA (SC?) review, please -resolution re: group-owned

Post by Victor1 »

So religious intolerance in CDS, and now straight out land fraud (with regards to pip).

Is CDS still a democracy?

Doesn't look like it from here....

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Re: For RA (SC?) review, please -resolution re: group-owned

Post by Garnet Psaltery »

I note in passing the fashion among some for using the phrase 'in my opinion'. I suppose if you spend enough time with people you pick up their phrases.

Oh, do you want specifics? I refer to Bags copying Cleo.

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Re: For RA (SC?) review, please -resolution re: group-owned

Post by Bagheera »

Tor Karlsvalt wrote:

Bags and the Xigalia regime are suggesting to use current law to break up Pip's holdings.

This is a discussion I started last May that was unfinished, one of 3 items I had on my list for the RA/SC to look at. The Xigalias had nothing to do with it and your accusation of my intention is without proof or merit.

I posted last night, completely oblivious to timing..however, if you are paying attention, I am only looking for clarity between two laws that already pre-exist and neither of these laws would force someone to lose their land unless they shouldn't have had it to begin with. Pat authored CDSL 16-03 and it received Ayes from Anna, Patroklus, Rosie and Shep. Since those people are all currently citizens, they could certainly weigh in on what they intended. This is just business as usual. Are we the community of laws we say we are, or magpies?

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Re: For RA (SC?) review, please -resolution re: group-owned

Post by Bagheera »

Garnet Psaltery wrote:

I note in passing the fashion among some for using the phrase 'in my opinion'. I suppose if you spend enough time with people you pick up their phrases.

Oh, do you want specifics? I refer to Bags copying Cleo.

You think my usage of "in my opinion" is something I am copying from Cleo? I used that phrase in my very first post to the CDS forums back in June, 2010. (this post also reflects my concern about use of eminent domain, even back then.. for those of you who thought I picked up that crusade from Cleo as well.. here is your proof it had nothing to do with a woman I did not even know existed yet)

http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... y+opinion+

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Re: For RA (SC?) review, please -resolution re: group-owned

Post by JerryDon Lane »

Victor1 wrote:

So religious intolerance in CDS, and now straight out land fraud (with regards to pip).

Is CDS still a democracy?

Doesn't look like it from here....

No...I'm afraid that CDS is NOT a democracy, Vic. Not even anything close to one. Perhaps it was at one time, but that would have been before I came, I guess.

And you are right....There is NO religious tolerance in these 5 sims. I have been called everything from a Bible thumper to a hypocrite since I arrived here. And that is from GOVERNMENT. I have been accused of supporting the Christian Crusades in my faith, and it was extrapolated that therefore, I must too be a murderer. It was implied that I must be pro-abortion and support those who bomb clinics and commit homicide on pro-abortion doctors without even asking me how I felt on the issue. I was accused of being a conservative Christian fundy by an SC member right here on these forums, although I am not in the least of that persuasion--ANYTHING that could be thought of that would disrespect by religious beliefs has been thrown at me and our church members right here in public for anyone to read for themselves. The abject hatred of others different than them by these long-term residents in all 5 sims is simply palpable.

And these elitists, who seem bigots for the most part to many I have talked to, although it certainly is not ALL in power I must admit, have entrenched themselves into government and maintain that power by voting each other into power time and time again ad nauseum. One cannot do ANYTHING to stop them and to return the government to the people because they will NOT allow people to come into CDS to participate in a democracy and to restore it to one governed by the people. They try to guard property sales like a pit bull hovering over his dogfood dish growling at anything that passes by. ONLY other elitists or people they think they can groom into them are allowed to purchase property, if they have their say. They treat newcomers like second class citizens and they are to them.

They fear new residents because it would destroy their dictatorship and disallow them from ruling a few avis which gives them some sort of sick, psychological rush that only a psychiatrist would understand. I sure don't get it.

These elitists have taken over every branch of government with the exception of the recent change in the the Chancellor's office, however temporary that might be. And no matter where one turns for justice outside that office, there they are to defend one another and propagate the monarchy.

To show you how far CDS has come from being a democracy, Vic. There are actually two sets of laws in CDS. One set that the people must follow, and another set, which largely is known as no law at all, for those who are in this elitist group, or in the least long-term residents of CDS sympathetic to this group of Power Mongers. Rather than rule by law, the elitists rule by whim.

This is evidenced everywhere one turns, from posts right here in a public forum, to simply observing the way the laws have been enforced by some previous Chancellors, all the way to the Estate Owner openly asking the New Chancellor to ignore the law in making some decisions regarding her. That statement is on record in another part of the forums.

It's evidenced that they OPENLY support violations of the Lab TOS, such as the violation of posting private chat into in-world public channels such as has occurred at least twice by their group in just the past few weeks. And by the toleration, and what seems to be even sanctioning of griefing of public property by one present RA member, the illegal use of another griefing tool by another presently sitting RA member on a another avi, and by constantly condoning harassment and abuse by their group upon the innocent citizens of CDS.

It's also evidenced by certain private groups consisting of these elitists being given such status as if they were some sort of CDS shadow government, and yes, I'm talking about the Artisan's Guild. They had infiltrated the Chancellor's office in the EO positions, they were allowed to occupy public property at reduced rates and were given this property outright by one of their own members who was also a higher-up in government--they were given control of the Web facilities supposedly owned by the people, such as Facebook to do with as they wished. They even went so far as to lock out the government elected by the people. And what good did it do to take an in-grave injustice like this to the SC. The elitists have also infiltrated that body and it was well suspected by me that they would either ignore it, or pass it back to the elitist dominated RA where NOTHING would be done to protect the people.

So is this a democracy? Nope, not even something similar to one and the founding fathers of democracy such as the Athenian democracy of Cleisthenes and Pericles, or Benjamin Franklin in the U.S. or the writers of the Magna Carta in Europe, would simply laugh at the monkey acts that happen routinely in CDS in the name of democracy. The elitists here only give lip service to that word in order to foment their own private little kingdom that would only allow them a chance to rule in someplace like SL, never would it be tolerated in RL. Unfortunately, the guns would probably come out if this were foisted onto a democracy in RL.

The word "democracy" (Greek: δημοκρατία ) literally translates to "rule by the people." So is there true rule by the people in CDS?

No. And there never will be for the foreseeable future. The only way that this would be possible, would be to rid CDS of these elitists and start from scratch. That probably won't happen in my life-time. Democracy in CDS is dead..... and hope for it in the immediate future is, after months of personal analysis, simply a lost cause.

The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government — lest it come to dominate our lives and interests. Patrick Henry
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Re: For RA (SC?) review, please -resolution re: group-owned

Post by Callipygian »

There are 8 posts in this thread and three of them have been flagged for moderation citing a number of reasons.

Bagheera, I am locking this thread and invite you to reopen it under Legislative Dicussion, where I hope it will stay on topic.

People often say that, in a democracy, decisions are made by a majority of the people. Of course, that is not true. Decisions are made by a majority of those who make themselves heard and who vote -- a very different thing.

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