Who has land deeded to group in CDS?

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Patroklus Murakami
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Who has land deeded to group in CDS?

Post by Patroklus Murakami »

Bagheera started a discussion over here on the reasons for the law appearing to forbid 'deeding' land to groups.

Who has land deeded to group in CDS? Anyone know or want to own up? I think it would be useful to know how many people, and who, are affected by this before we decide to use it on people or amend it in some way.

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Re: Who has land deeded to group in CDS?

Post by Sudane Erato »

There are two parcels in NFS which I formerly owned which are now deeded to the group CDS Artisan Guild.

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JerryDon Lane
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Re: Who has land deeded to group in CDS?

Post by JerryDon Lane »

Catz and I have NEVER owned property in SL that was NOT deeded to our group until we experienced the silly laws of CDS.

The problem here is that few in CDS seem to have any common sense. :D Here is another example. Do my gay and lesbian friends really want marriage opportunities in RL? Then why not start in CDS and and understand what marriage is and that people normally own everything together jointly (It's called joint tenancy in law).

CDS doesn't recognize partnerships and that includes marriage because one cannot be married, live in CDS and be a voting citizen. One must legally separate (financially speaking), dissolve joint tenancy; and become separately distinct entities with two separate ownerships of property in order to be a voting citizen.

Oh, I know there is some even sillier law that says you can pay the king money under that circumstance every month and vote. But no one I've ever talked to seems to really understand how that works.

There needs to be a new law in CDS. Here it is: NO new laws can be passed by this RA with the exception of the new sim which was voted on by the people, until these old laws are tackled, corrected, either revised or repealed as is necessary, new laws implemented to cover the basics like this that are lacking.....and common sense introduced into the legislative scenario.

There's a good start........Oh...no time for this because you are too busy arguing about self-expression for your new religious holiday that doesn't exist anywhere outside your mind? OK...well, I try here.....:mrgreen:

The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government — lest it come to dominate our lives and interests. Patrick Henry
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Bromo Ivory
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Re: Who has land deeded to group in CDS?

Post by Bromo Ivory »

Actually JD ...

I have the benefit of being in CDS for nearly 8 years, so I have some perspective on this.

The current laws are not trying to prevent marriage - it's trying to prevent voter fraud since land ownership is tied to voting rights. And CDS has had several iterations of this law over the years because of the number of married couples wanting to own a property in common and both retaining the right to vote. The problem is that LL doesn't distinguish between a group associated with a marriage and one that has nothing to do with that bond.

So what was happening is that people would gather together a number of citizens ina group and own enough land to give them all the right to vote - but it was unclear who bought the land and who paid the rent on it. And in our system of citizenship both are important to establish citizenship (a person has to own both land and pay for the tier out of his or her own pocket for the citizenship to be valid - scandals have erupted of the rumors of people giving money to others to pay for tier or land - because it would be construed as "cheating" to get the vote in CDS). About 7-8 years ago there was a small minority of people that wanted to decouple citizenship form land ownership - a fee could be paid in lieu of land ownership for the right to vote. It never went anywhere despite being popular for removing the fussiness about land, since it was felt that it would be too easy to "Game" CDS on one hand, and that CDS in the end was a landowners association first and foremost. I supported the "decoupled citizenship" that failed, but later another set of sims, AA, tried that for awhile, and found few ever really had the desire to be a member of a voting community and NOT own land. It sure would be an easy vehicle in CDS to use it to allow group members the right to vote if they so chose.

(Oh and for the record, while not gay myself, I am VERY pro marriage equality, so found your comments to be in rather poor taste)

JerryDon Lane wrote:

Catz and I have NEVER owned property in SL that was NOT deeded to our group until we experienced the silly laws of CDS.

The problem here is that few in CDS seem to have any common sense. :D Here is another example. Do my gay and lesbian friends really want marriage opportunities in RL? Then why not start in CDS and and understand what marriage is and that people normally own everything together jointly (It's called joint tenancy in law).

CDS doesn't recognize partnerships and that includes marriage because one cannot be married, live in CDS and be a voting citizen. One must legally separate (financially speaking), dissolve joint tenancy; and become separately distinct entities with two separate ownerships of property in order to be a voting citizen.

Oh, I know there is some even sillier law that says you can pay the king money under that circumstance every month and vote. But no one I've ever talked to seems to really understand how that works.

There needs to be a new law in CDS. Here it is: NO new laws can be passed by this RA with the exception of the new sim which was voted on by the people, until these old laws are tackled, corrected, either revised or repealed as is necessary, new laws implemented to cover the basics like this that are lacking.....and common sense introduced into the legislative scenario.

There's a good start........Oh...no time for this because you are too busy arguing about self-expression for your new religious holiday that doesn't exist anywhere outside your mind? OK...well, I try here.....:mrgreen:

==
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Re: Who has land deeded to group in CDS?

Post by JerryDon Lane »

Bromo Ivory wrote:

Actually JD ...

I have the benefit of being in CDS for nearly 8 years, so I have some perspective on this.

The current laws are not trying to prevent marriage - it's trying to prevent voter fraud since land ownership is tied to voting rights. And CDS has had several iterations of this law over the years because of the number of married couples wanting to own a property in common and both retaining the right to vote. The problem is that LL doesn't distinguish between a group associated with a marriage and one that has nothing to do with that bond.

So what was happening is that people would gather together a number of citizens ina group and own enough land to give them all the right to vote - but it was unclear who bought the land and who paid the rent on it. And in our system of citizenship both are important to establish citizenship (a person has to own both land and pay for the tier out of his or her own pocket for the citizenship to be valid - scandals have erupted of the rumors of people giving money to others to pay for tier or land - because it would be construed as "cheating" to get the vote in CDS). About 7-8 years ago there was a small minority of people that wanted to decouple citizenship form land ownership - a fee could be paid in lieu of land ownership for the right to vote. It never went anywhere despite being popular for removing the fussiness about land, since it was felt that it would be too easy to "Game" CDS on one hand, and that CDS in the end was a landowners association first and foremost. I supported the "decoupled citizenship" that failed, but later another set of sims, AA, tried that for awhile, and found few ever really had the desire to be a member of a voting community and NOT own land. It sure would be an easy vehicle in CDS to use it to allow group members the right to vote if they so chose.

(Oh and for the record, while not gay myself, I am VERY pro marriage equality, so found your comments to be in rather poor taste)

JerryDon Lane wrote:

Catz and I have NEVER owned property in SL that was NOT deeded to our group until we experienced the silly laws of CDS.

The problem here is that few in CDS seem to have any common sense. :D Here is another example. Do my gay and lesbian friends really want marriage opportunities in RL? Then why not start in CDS and and understand what marriage is and that people normally own everything together jointly (It's called joint tenancy in law).

CDS doesn't recognize partnerships and that includes marriage because one cannot be married, live in CDS and be a voting citizen. One must legally separate (financially speaking), dissolve joint tenancy; and become separately distinct entities with two separate ownerships of property in order to be a voting citizen.

Oh, I know there is some even sillier law that says you can pay the king money under that circumstance every month and vote. But no one I've ever talked to seems to really understand how that works.

There needs to be a new law in CDS. Here it is: NO new laws can be passed by this RA with the exception of the new sim which was voted on by the people, until these old laws are tackled, corrected, either revised or repealed as is necessary, new laws implemented to cover the basics like this that are lacking.....and common sense introduced into the legislative scenario.

There's a good start........Oh...no time for this because you are too busy arguing about self-expression for your new religious holiday that doesn't exist anywhere outside your mind? OK...well, I try here.....:mrgreen:

I TOO am very much pro gay marriage.......I would have no idea how you could think otherwise......Wow....whatever......

The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government — lest it come to dominate our lives and interests. Patrick Henry
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Bromo Ivory
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Re: Who has land deeded to group in CDS?

Post by Bromo Ivory »

JerryDon Lane wrote:
Bromo Ivory wrote:

(Oh and for the record, while not gay myself, I am VERY pro marriage equality, so found your comments to be in rather poor taste)

JerryDon Lane wrote:

[...] Here is another example. Do my gay and lesbian friends really want marriage opportunities in RL? Then why not start in CDS and and understand what marriage is and that people normally own everything together jointly (It's called joint tenancy in law).

I TOO am very much pro gay marriage.......I would have no idea how you could think otherwise......Wow....whatever......

The sentance that's listed above is the one that I must have mis-interpreted. Just seemed rather bad there. Glad I just misunderstood! :)

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Re: Who has land deeded to group in CDS?

Post by JerryDon Lane »

Bromo Ivory wrote:

Just seemed rather bad there. Glad I just misunderstood! :)

Oh...ya think? It's called reading comprehension.......Education cures that Bromo.

The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government — lest it come to dominate our lives and interests. Patrick Henry
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