Proposal: Removing hot tub prohibition from the covenants

[Gwyneth Llewelyn]

Hello all,

I would like to propose a change on the covenant currently approved for sims in the CDS that explicitly forbid the use of open-air hot tubs.

This prohibition was actually created because the freely available hot tub is one insanely laggy piece of software written for SL 1.0 or something like that. It contains half a dozen of scripts that are terribly laggy, to the utter extreme.

Currently, this can be far better handled with the restriction on particles and the limits on running scripts. Thus, I propose to explicitly remove the "prohibition on hot tubs" from the covenants, while naturally leaving the bits referring to particle and script limits (or for insisting on touch-activated scripts instead of "open listen" ones).

There are even worse scripts in SL, actually, and it makes no sense to list them all explicitly.

[Patroklus Murakami]

Aaaah! Now I understand the prohibition.

Sounds reasonable to get rid of it now.

[Diderot Mirabeau]

If lag were really the problem then what was the point of only banning the tubs from being used outside? It seems to my experience that lag does not care much about walls and doors.

I interpret the original intention of the provision to be to rid the landscape of CDS of the ugly aestethics of Second Life as a whole and possibly also as a supportive clause to enforce the historical theme and I have to say I am in agreement with us trying to strive for a somewhat higher aesthetical standard than that of the archetypical first lander with a McMansion prefab - unfurnished but for a few adult poseballs because of a lack of prims - and a hot tub and a big freebie car casually rezzed in whatever may remain of a garden of the 512 sqm once the overdimensioned house (on stilts or rezzed on a giant, flat prim to "level" the terrain).

I do not mind lifting the ban on hot tubs especially since it will probably stand in the way of some nice Roman themed spa configurations but I would very much appreciate if we ensured that we still strive to maintain a certain standard in building aestethics that rises above that of the scenario described in the above - also in the case of individual citizens' architectural contributions to their community.

[Ranma Tardis]

I made my decision to by land in Colonia nova based on the web page. I did not wish to do so in a PG sim pretending to be a mature sim. I understand that some people got carried away with the "mature" nature of things on the mainland but it nevered bothered me. People who have avatars with the default shapes and skins wearing a very fake penis prim object are rather funny.
Also I think it depends on the thought of the viewing person. There is no real interaction between avatars exceptpushing and bumping.
The following is why I though Colonia Nova was going to be a different place to live. Do not think I would of join in but the fact it is available speaks of the free nature of the sim. Of course if the following is not porn, what is?

"While in SL your avatar never gets dirty all the other activities taken place at the baths are common. The baths will be open for most of the time, but at special occasions, we will even have... orgies

I have decided to move out of the CDS and make my residence in Caledon. Making threats to do so if something is not done is illegal. I think of it as the hush Kendra act. See you in Caledon.........

[Ashcroft Burnham]

[quote="Ranma Tardis":1ugp4ckp]I have decided to move out of the CDS and make my residence in Caledon. Making threats to do so if something is not done is illegal. I think of it as the hush Kendra act. See you in Caledon.........[/quote:1ugp4ckp]

Actually, it isn't any more: the Judiciary Act removed that part of the constitution.

[Chicago Kipling]

Gwyneth, I think your proposal is a fine one.

The other matters seem a discussion of culture that is largely separate from this particular matter in my mind so I'll send the thought to a new thread.

[Diderot Mirabeau]

Did anyone here actually bother to assess the argument that a covenant provision banning [b:1mog8a44]outdoor[/b:1mog8a44] hot tubs was intended to reduce lag?

[Chicago Kipling]

Gwyneth's first post asserted that this can be controlled much better by building hot tubs differently and setting limits on scripts, which can be added as need be in addition to the general things we already ask of people. In my mind at least that was a straightforward, logical point.

You can see here though why careful wording is important. Because it was linked in the wording with decency standards people will emotionally connect it that way. My point elsewhere is that there are better ways to address that concern elsewhere as well.

So yes, I think a number of us did.

[Jon Seattle]

I support Gwyn on this proposal. I was building the "Domus" houses across from the amphitheater. Each house has a "Peristyliym" or columned garden, and a traditional rectangular pool in the center of that garden. The pool has gently moving water that requires a script that runs only for a moment when the water is first rezzed.

One citizen looked at this pool, set the water to "phantom" and jumped in. And who can say that the Romans did not do the same?

[Ranma Tardis]

[quote="Chicago Kipling":1jmvndvx]Gwyneth's first post asserted that this can be controlled much better by building hot tubs differently and setting limits on scripts, which can be added as need be in addition to the general things we already ask of people. In my mind at least that was a straightforward, logical point.

You can see here though why careful wording is important. Because it was linked in the wording with decency standards people will emotionally connect it that way. My point elsewhere is that there are better ways to address that concern elsewhere as well.

So yes, I think a number of us did.[/quote:1jmvndvx]

This is my last posting in the forums for the indefinite future. I am going to share some of my thought on this issue and my background. A problem that we face is the values we bring with us from our real lives. I was raised under very different values than most of the residents. I was brought up to respect my family and elders, never to do anything to embarrass my family or village. I was not brought up with the "puritan" work ethic or concept of modesty. The opposite sex or their bodies anyway are no mystery to me. We took baths as a family and seeing the other gender was a natural event. I was not raised to be ashamed of my body. Also for your information, I am a Christian and remember I am from Okinawa and thus not Japanese!

If you want Colonia Nova and Neufreistadt to have "decency" standards, My suggestion is to change the sims rating to PG and remember the harder you squeeze the citizens the more that will slip through your fingers! Rules should be clear and easy to understand. Having a "mature" rating and enforcing a PG code will result in confusion.

I find this talk of “decently" boorish at best. I have grown tired of talking and people not listening to me. I am tired of being in the minority. I was told by Claude this. My paraphrasing is very poor but it amounted to "take it or leave". Well I sold my Colonia Nova land and am a citizen of the CDS through my group affiliation with the Democratic Peace Group. I have shifted my main residence to Caledon 2 where they are getting ready to put sim #9 on line. I am told there is a waiting list. On the other hand there are empty lots in both Colonia Nova and Neufreistadt and it seems that no one in the CDS "government" can see the problem.

[Ashcroft Burnham]

Ranma, I find it a little curious that you are moving out of a Roman themed sim because it prohibits "[i:1n0iut36]commercial[/i:1n0iut36] pornography" (emphasis mine), which prohibition can at any time in relation to any specific plot be waived by the Chancellor, to a [i:1n0iut36]Victorian[/i:1n0iut36] themed sim. Were not the Victorians the ultimate masters of prudishness?

[Ranma Tardis]

[quote="Ashcroft Burnham":2tm4xeo5]Ranma, I find it a little curious that you are moving out of a Roman themed sim because it prohibits "[i:2tm4xeo5]commercial[/i:2tm4xeo5] pornography" (emphasis mine), which prohibition can at any time in relation to any specific plot be waived by the Chancellor, to a [i:2tm4xeo5]Victorian[/i:2tm4xeo5] themed sim. Were not the Victorians the ultimate masters of prudishness?[/quote:2tm4xeo5]

I will answer this, never said the prohibition against "commercial pornography" was my only reason for selling my plot in CN. Also the rules in Caledon are somewhat relaxed. They are not true Victorians any more than the residents in CN are Romans. Also from my studies the "Victorians" were not nearly as prudish as one reads about. It seems to be it was a rewriting of the history of a later generation. It was a time of dynamic change and it includes the begining of the movement foe Womens rights.
What I like about Caledon is that there is none of the "red tape" one encounters endlessly in the CDS.

[Ashcroft Burnham]

[quote="Ranma Tardis":2wuzloii]I will answer this, never said the prohibition against "commercial pornography" was my only reason for selling my plot in CN. Also the rules in Caledon are somewhat relaxed. They are not true Victorians any more than the residents in CN are Romans. Also from my studies the "Victorians" were not nearly as prudish as one reads about. It seems to be it was a rewriting of the history of a later generation. It was a time of dynamic change and it includes the begining of the movement foe Womens rights.
What I like about Caledon is that there is none of the "red tape" one encounters endlessly in the CDS.[/quote:2wuzloii]

What particular red tape bothered you?

[Ranma Tardis]

[quote="Ashcroft Burnham":a3immknq][quote="Ranma Tardis":a3immknq]I will answer this, never said the prohibition against "commercial pornography" was my only reason for selling my plot in CN. Also the rules in Caledon are somewhat relaxed. They are not true Victorians any more than the residents in CN are Romans. Also from my studies the "Victorians" were not nearly as prudish as one reads about. It seems to be it was a rewriting of the history of a later generation. It was a time of dynamic change and it includes the begining of the movement foe Womens rights.
What I like about Caledon is that there is none of the "red tape" one encounters endlessly in the CDS.[/quote:a3immknq]

What particular red tape bothered you?[/quote:a3immknq]

This is not a easy question to answer. I do point at a legal system that is becomming at least as complex as its real counterpart. Getting a simple action done will probally soon require a lawyler and cost perhaps hundreds of american dollars.
I point again to the ban on Comericial Porn. My former faction refused to get involved. I can understand real pictures to a point but our avatars are nothing more than cartoon figures.

[Ashcroft Burnham]

[quote="Ranma Tardis":1qddzjah]This is not a easy question to answer. I do point at a legal system that is becomming at least as complex as its real counterpart. Getting a simple action done will probally soon require a lawyler and cost perhaps hundreds of american dollars.
I point again to the ban on Comericial Porn. My former faction refused to get involved. I can understand real pictures to a point but our avatars are nothing more than cartoon figures.[/quote:1qddzjah]

So, actually, your problem is partly with what you guess might happen, not what actually has happened, and partly with something that has consistently been the case since the community was founded over two years ago?