Move to IMPEACH THE LRA

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Patroklus Murakami
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Re: Move to IMPEACH THE LRA

Post by Patroklus Murakami »

The new sim is on the agenda for the RA. It's not the first item because... the RA members have other legislative goals they want to achieve and Cadence asked all of them to prioritise. The agenda should not just be at the whim of one RA member who thinks she has special privileges that the others don't i.e. Cleo. Stamping your virtual foot and screaming "Impeach! Impeach! My will must be done" is not helping.

Nor is the regular disruption of meetings by Cleo. It's amazing to me that she still hasn't learned how to behave in RA meetings despite having sat on it on and off for over six years now. Calling out, interrupting motions, ignoring the LRA, dredging up ancient accusations that derail the meeting. She does this *every* time the RA meets and, as a consequence, less is achieved than when she isn't there. Her record is woeful. If people want this community to thrive they need to stop voting for her.

And now we have this distraction. What possible good can come of wasting everyone's time with this impeachment motion? First of all the SC have to deal with this nonsense. I can't imagine that they will vote to impeach Cadence so... good job Cleo.. you've wasted another hour of their lives to attend the meeting and who knows how many to prepare for it. What if she was successful and Cadence was impeached? What happens then? Well.. we need a by-election to find another RA member and the RA would need to choose a new LRA. This could all take months and meanwhile... bugger all is happening on a new sim.

I judge people by their actions, not their words. Cleo does not genuinely want a new sim or a thriving CDS community. She just wants to create drama, that's why she was kicked out of Roma and every other SL community she has been part of.

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Re: Move to IMPEACH THE LRA

Post by Bromo Ivory »

What you are characterizing as a temper tantrum, really is trying to get the RA to address the overwhealming mandate with the plebiscite. She isn't so much saying "MY will be done" as "THE PEOPLE'S will be done." It is a little disappointing that you can't see that - truly you are judging the messenger and not the message.

The thing that you should probably look at, is that, despite the disruptions that you condemn (though I have seen that you guys tend to attack her a lot of the time, and try to "shut her up" quite a bit before any disruption would occur - no innocents in those chambers) is that she was the most popular RA member in the last election. And has been very popular the last 6 years, too. She hasn't ever resigned her post (ahem). So instead of focussing on the package, and trying to tell her how she should be a RA member, you guys may not have the answers you think you do. If you really want her out, then perhaps you should try to appeal to her constituents? She and Gwyn are the only RA members trying to get the SIM on the agenda - and not "hemming and hawing" about other things on the agenda.

But the overarching thing, is that with the plebiscite, there is an overwhealming mandate. And, frankly, the RA wanting to put a million and one things in front of it, has no real justification. It's well beyond who you do and don't like, Pat.

All Cleo is trying to get the RA to do is the people's will.

It's pretty clear to me that you probably don't want a SIM, though sine you are so quick to blame others that don't have any control over the agenda.

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Re: Move to IMPEACH THE LRA

Post by Cadence Theas »

Bromo, you are so quick to arrive at simple conclusions. The “people” did not vote for a new sim to be slapped together and then go through two years of power struggle and a repeat of the LA fiasco. You just bought and built a new sim. Did you have to answer to 80 people? Did you have to arrive at a consensus before you built the sim? Do you have to care what anyone else thinks? I imagine that the answer to all 3 questions is “no”. So it is easy from your sarcastic perch in the sky to throw bolts of criticism about how things are being done in CDS. Congratulations. You found an easy target.

If you have bothered to really, I mean really look at what I am trying to do as LRA, you might find a different perspective. Business as usual in CDS is whoever has the power has the say-so, or whoever shouts the loudest gets their way because people just get tired of arguing. What I have tried to do in this 21st RA is to do everything by consensus—beginning with the simple task of making RA meetings polite. What a novel idea. The whole legislative agenda is something that I wanted the RA to arrive at as a consensus—NOT something that I prioritized—although I have the right to do so. Unfortunately Bromo, you are making the usual accusations to someone who does not like political games, who does not know how to play them, and in fact is basing her entire process on research she has done in rl with political and identity rights of minority and vulnerable populations, so the method is not a political one, but rather a social one. And you know what? We have had really good results in rl.

The mandate you mention is true, people want a new sim. So do I. What they don’t want, and maybe I am presuming, is a repeat of the two years of the LA fight. Can you tell me--right now--exactly what thematic sim people want? Can you tell me what will be the mechanism for distributing land in the new sim? Can you tell me what is landscape will be? How much public land? No. And why? Because you are one person out of many with a vested interest in how the sim will look and its final role in CDS. Do you speak for the mandate? Does Cleo?

From the very start I have tried to get the RA to work as a collective body of people in the interest of CDS. Two other people, Tor and Rosie, from the start also met the challenge to work as a collective body and not each one working out his or her own personal interest. Gwyn wrote a very moving entry in the forum apologizing for her absence but supporting my objective to make the RA a useful entity and not simply a platform for political rhetoric. The only person who has not even attempted to cooperate or try to work towards a consensus is your Cleo. Bromo, if she had filled out the survey I sent to all of the RA members, a simple survey numbering 1-13 their idea of the legislative agenda for the term, a survey that the other four members of the RA happily filled out, if she had done that, the new sim would have been the first item of the legislative agenda, the first. And since it is a numerical chart, something that politics cannot spin into something different, if she had simply done what the other four members of the RA did, the new sim would have been on the last July 10th meeting. I sent her emails, IMs, and even posted the survey in the forum for weeks, for weeks, and the day before the July 10th meeting she tells me that she only saw it that day. When a few days before she told me in IM that she doesn’t fill out forms.
Is this working towards a consensus? Is this the best way for the RA to operate? Even you, in your absurd factionalist myopia, would have to admit that someone is not doing something right, and that person is not the LRA.

So before you throw bolts of criticism from your comfortable surreality in the sky at people down here in CDS who are trying to do things differently, you might really investigate the cause and effects of what has happened here. Try to envision a RA that works differently than before. You might, just might, attend an RA meeting and be part of the discussion and see how things actually work.

There is an adage, that if you want “x” result and “y” method doesn’t work, then doing more of “y” will not lead to anything different. You have to invent a new method and this is what I am trying to do this term. Now you can be part of the people contributing to the new method, or you can be one of the ones who always finds something wrong. Take the first step, Bromo, try something different.

What you will not find in all of your analyses of my performance as LRA is a political motive. My perspective is completely, completely social. What does that mean? That before anything is done, there has to be a consensus at the RA level, at the social and public level.

Let me offer you a challenge, a challenge to wander among the people in CDS, all of them, not just the few you know, and ask them if their yes vote in the referendum was a yes vote to build a sim fast anywhere and anyhow, or build a sim that would do credit to CDS and its LONG TERM goal of sustainable growth—both social and economic?

I also specifically invite you, you, Bromo, to attend Friday’s RA meeting from 8-10am SLT. Then you can criticize me from direct knowledge and not an unsubstantiated and politically motivated stance. Will you be there?

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Re: Move to IMPEACH THE LRA

Post by Bromo Ivory »

Cadence - you may have noticed that I avoided comparison of my SIM and your LRA-ship. Any sort of comparison you are concocting is possibly from self-criticism, but it sure isn't from me. I am criticizing because you haven't even visibly started. I fear the entire term will pass, and you will not have addressed much of anything towards this goal.

Is this working towards a consensus? Is this the best way for the RA to operate? Even you, in your absurd factionalist myopia, would have to admit that someone is not doing something right, and that person is not the LRA.

LOL. Myopic? That's pretty funny. I am not arguing as a faction. I just saw that a giant majority of people wanted a new SIM, and you guys arne't working on it in any noticeable way. It sounds, actually like you are scared, so you dig your heels in and delay.

Thanks for inviting me to an RA meeting, I have read the transcripts, but the mistake isn't their rancorous nature, it's the agenda isn't aligned with the will of the people in the big single way.

But ... you do what you are going to do. You know how I feel, you also know that the longer you delay getting to the SIM, the longer you ignore the mandate you have. I will be happy to help out any way I can. I suspect I can help far more than you expect, or realize.

I appreciate you are trying to drive to consensus. I have been involved qith RSOF meetings for some time, and while it isn't consensus, it resembles that quite a lot. It can be slower than not, but additionally, you aren't really doing the people's work at this point by not doing your consensus building around your mandate.

I also specifically invite you, you, Bromo, to attend Friday’s RA meeting from 8-10am SLT. Then you can criticize me from direct knowledge and not an unsubstantiated and politically motivated stance. Will you be there?

Given the time zone I live in, and I have a job, alas I won't be able to attend. I would like to, honestly. And not just to criticize.

And for the record - I may be outspoken in my criticism, but it is because I want us to become more democratic, more responsive to the people's desires - this will build us into a more successful community, actually, and we will become a source of growth.

PLus with a new SIM, given the chronic shortage of land, we'd be likely able to sell it quickly and build to being a larger community.

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Re: Move to IMPEACH THE LRA

Post by Widget Whiteberry »

Cadence - Spoken as someone who has only recently (since April) paid more than cursory attention to the governing bodies of CDS, but who has since attended or read every word of every meeting transcript: bravo! And thank you for your service.

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Re: Move to IMPEACH THE LRA

Post by Rosie Gray »

I second Widget's bravo, Cadence. I think you are wasting your time with Bromo though as he seems to never, ever, waver from his staunch loyalty to Cleo no matter what she says or does. Never mind, the rest of us on the RA will do the work with or without her cooperation.

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Re: Move to IMPEACH THE LRA

Post by Bromo Ivory »

Rosie Gray wrote:

I second Widget's bravo, Cadence. I think you are wasting your time with Bromo though as he seems to never, ever, waver from his staunch loyalty to Cleo no matter what she says or does. Never mind, the rest of us on the RA will do the work with or without her cooperation.

LOL

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Re: Move to IMPEACH THE LRA

Post by Widget Whiteberry »

Bromo - From my relative newcomer perspective, I see the dynamic differently than you do. From my perspective there are a number of people, including but not limited to Tor, Rosie, Gwynth, Cadance and Pat, who are active in gov't and get along reasonable well with each other. They do not, however, agree on every vote or every policy.

I do not propose to go back into various archives and chat logs to find you examples. It's more work than I have the time to do. However, it is interesting to me that Cleo & Ceasar, and to some extent you and Bags, seem to be pushing those folks to act in greater concert than they would on their own.

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Re: Move to IMPEACH THE LRA

Post by Bromo Ivory »

Widget Whiteberry wrote:

Bromo - From my relative newcomer perspective, I see the dynamic differently than you do. From my perspective there are a number of people, including but not limited to Tor, Rosie, Gwynth, Cadance and Pat, who are active in gov't and get along reasonable well with each other. They do not, however, agree on every vote or every policy.

I do not propose to go back into various archives and chat logs to find you examples. It's more work than I have the time to do. However, it is interesting to me that Cleo & Ceasar, and to some extent you and Bags, seem to be pushing those folks to act in greater concert than they would on their own.

Hey Widget -

I have been involved with CDS since 2007 - back when there was a "faction system" and within a faction, there was sometimes large disagreements along policy lines, but for the most part the members of the factions got along and voted with each other. And some other factions would get long with them, but not all of them, of course, on matters of policy. They have been acting in concert for a long time, actually. And numerous cozy relationships that in a RL govbernment would simply be considered conflicts of interest.

But this whole thing goes back to Bagheera's chancellorship. She, in hindsight rather naively, tried very hard to keep the existing EM's on as her EM's - and they quite frankly worked very hard to undermine her authority. Rather than firing them, she kept them on - where this continued. This has been a pattern of behaviour for anyone not in their clique, actually. And not from their rhetoric, but from their actions at this point I feel they would make the CDS smaller, not bigger, and would restrict membership to like minded people. Given we see the SC move the assets (treasury, and the IP - the laws and records of CDS) out of democratic control with a mere promise that this may get rectified at some date. We also see more and more positions being moved outside of any sort of Democratic accountability (Treasurer, and the Web master) again with a promise that it might get recitifed someday for the Web master (though with the RA and not the Chancellor). You also may have noticed that the SC declared that the Chancellor has no authority outside of the sims, which is an entirely new concept - and it is not lost on me that it was done "coincidentally" that one might imagine they were trying to trim the wings of a politician in their opposition. Damaging the authority of an office for political reasons for me is rather short sighted, and causes me to beleive they might not have CDS's long term good at heart. Especially if they get their person in the office and "suddenly" find that that ruiling of law shoudl be reversed. This is worrying - the alteration of what is and isn't under democratic control in what appears to be partisanship by the very people that "get along" with one another.

So yes, they do seem to cooperate quite closely, but look carefully at what they are cooperating towards - and what the results are coming out as, and you may get a different picture, and why I feel the need to oppose. COuld we have been less confrontational and more pleasant? I am sure we could have done better on that front, but I am not sure it would have changed anything. Begheera tried that, and eventually got so harassed that she stepped down, which actually woke me up from dormancy, and whan I looked around, I saw a lot of rather cozy relationships,. what appeared to be bullying of people not in that group. I also saw a pattern of behavior with some folks with land holding that could be interpreted as a desire to tie up land to prevent new people form coming in (a couple of private conversations with some individuals makes me more than suspicious).

And you know what? There is a silent majority in the CDS that helped Ceasar get elected, and gave Cleo that largest number of votes of all those in the RA. If you think she is a "less than good" RA member, realize she is representing a large group that is not satisfied with that crew you see "gets along" so well. If the RA representation involved others that were less controversial but fed off of that dissatisfaction, it would likely in time be the dominant group, but the "opposition" as it stands isn't strong enough.

But no group is beyond redemption. I would likely be a rather large supporter if the following policies would be adopted:

1. Treasurer and Treasury under some sort of democratic oversight (say an affirmation rather than a "for life" appointment)
2. Webmaster and any other appointments for the service of CDS under some sort of democratic oversight, preferably in the office of Chancellor since it is an executive position and not a legislative one.
3. Term limits for SC members (perhaps 18-24 or even 36 months?) to avoid ossification. And have the number of seats set by the RA, not the SC. Appointments done by the Chancellor, and approved by the RA, not the SC.
4. Any current bureaucratic position that is not elected or appointed by an elected official every election, has some sort of democratic oversight.
5. The people voted overwhelmingly for a new SIM, so get a new SIM and build it out quickly.
6. Make sure the repossession of lands arrears and sale of it is done in a consistent and transparently fair manner with everyone having notification and equal access over several sales, or have it done by lottery.
7. Make land sales and holdings transparent. Close the "group land holding" loophole that is currently limiting the number of new citizens by creating artificial land scarcity.
8. Have a method of addressing and handling TOS violations in community rather than telling people to file a report with (very ineffective) LL.
9. Nobody having an "elite status" on any sort of permanent basis. Never serve, or serve 20 terms, and when you are a regular citizen, you do not have any special privaledges beyind that.
10. No special treatment for anyone above anyone else. We're all equally "special" :-)

But since these items would likely disrupt a number of "cozy deals" currently in play, any steps towards this has created enormous blow-back, and much of the politics you see and worry about. The current elites running the RA will usually "say" that they aren't against most of this, but when it comes time to legislate "there are other more pressing priorities" but over the years, youd' figure there would be time eventually ...

And, behind the scenes, and probably not visible to you have been numerous instances of infighting, bullying, harassement and general mayhem - some of which were TOS violations some possibly worse. IN the coming days and weeks, and months, look and observe.

But, don't believe me, as I exit CDS, watch how decision are being made, and who says what to whom, without judging. You will see what I am saying is largely correct. Or not. But look carefully at what is actually being done, and what is actually coming to pass and don't mistake affability for having CDS' best interests at heart.

Last edited by Anonymous on Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:22 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Move to IMPEACH THE LRA

Post by Bromo Ivory »

And to be fair ... I have seen people not used to power and authority, once they get it may not realize the strength of their power and authority - and inadvertently bully people or at least be very harsh, where in the previous position their behavior wouldn't seem intimidating or threatening at all. In virtual worlds, you have little idea of what sort of background the person might have, too. A person may be a CEO, or the person cleanign the washroom, or anywhere in between. While I cannot speak for CDS, in a SL church I helped build years ago, we found some of the parishioners were on the asbergers/autism spectrum, and a couple were virtual shut-ins due to some health problems, and SL was a real outlet with a level playing field with others. They were all pleasant people, and they were by no means the majority - but it isn't lost on me that we don't have the same social cues, and everyone, of course, has different written communication skills which loses a lot of context, and I think fuels some conflict because it is too easy to project your own choice of emotion onto something someone else is writing.

Plus we have citizens from nearly every developed and some developing countries. And a variety of cultures - and the methods of discussing problems, and resolving conflict vary and sometimes are very VERY incompatible. For instance, I have it under very good authority that open opposition to one's superiors is expected and condoned in some cultures, but would be considered insubordinations and a fire-able/sackable offence in the US (or UK for that matter). This would mean that disputes and opposition and conlfic resolutions would many times get at cross purposes, too. So we should be better at cutting each other a little leeway now and again. (Particularly interesting are the exchanges betwene Cadence and JD: JD was talking and writing as a typical US Midwesterner writes casually, and Cadence interpreted his writing as being irredeemably sexist. Having lived in the MIdwest in my youth, I do understand JD sure didn't mean to be sexist, and realized this was a language barrier as well as some cultural clashes. Neither one met in the middle, and the conflict would brew to this day had JD not left)

In fact, I am convinced the projection/writing aspects are at the core of a number of the current "partisan problems" that get rather emotional. And also that more than one person gets drnk and logs in which makes for some rather interesting group conversations and evening rolls across the citizens of CDS's RL.

I really do wish that CDS would pull itself out of its funk. Perhaps me pulling away will help in a small way (sometimes even a righteous opposition cannot make change, and is best letting whatever it is remain unreformed) - but what worries me is as things stand, CDS's assets are not under democratic control or oversight, which makes much of what the RA does more "model UN" than "government" at this point. I hope that can be rectified.

Last edited by Anonymous on Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Move to IMPEACH THE LRA

Post by cleopatraxigalia »

Thank you Bromo. And hear hear , you and JD have it correct as well as the many many before you who have shaken the dust off their feet and walked away.

I am very sad to say I must agree.

There is strong evidence now that CDS is not a democracy whatsoever , it is nothing more than a sim owned by Sudanes typist and inner circle

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Re: Move to IMPEACH THE LRA

Post by Rosie Gray »

cleopatraxigalia wrote:

Thank you Bromo. And hear hear , you and JD have it correct as well as the many many before you who have shaken the dust off their feet and walked away.

I am very sad to say I must agree.

Does this mean you are leaving as well Cleo?????

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Re: Move to IMPEACH THE LRA

Post by Spider Upshaw »

Well I sent two very nice people in CDS some TINFOIL HATS for protection 24/7 with all the monkey dust flying around, but I also sent Bromo one as he sure can use it. :) ENJOY!!!

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Re: Move to IMPEACH THE LRA

Post by Bromo Ivory »

Spider Upshaw wrote:

Well I sent two very nice people in CDS some TINFOIL HATS for protection 24/7 with all the monkey dust flying around, but I also sent Bromo one as he sure can use it. :) ENJOY!!!

Don't forget your own, those opposite rays are nasty! <3

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