City Public Space Re-Development Proposal... and a map

Forum to discuss and coordinate the expansion of the CDS and the redevelopment of existing territories.

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City Public Space Re-Development Proposal... and a map

Post by Sudane Erato »

I'm starting this thread as a place to discuss some re-working of the public/private space configuration in the City. The recent changes have provided a unique opportunity to examine and perhaps alter some of the public and private parcels.

This is not yet a assembled proposal. Its a chance to show off a new map project that I'm doing, and at the same time to ID the locations of the areas in question. We'll fill out the proposal in succeeding posts.

The map is also a work-in-progress. It obviously uses the map data provided by Sky Honey's scanning/mapping application, to which I'm then adding various overlays with parcel numbers, street names and other info.

Everything here is a work-in-progress, so all comments are entirely welcome.

Sudane

[img:26e1avre]http://www.tospitimou.com/Neualtenburg/ ... 12Size.jpg[/img:26e1avre]

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Re: Further expansion of the Platz

Post by Pelanor Eldrich »

Hi Sudane,

I have an idea for expanding the platz in two directions to provide 3 main platz districts. South I mean down, north I mean up on your diagram.

1. The traditional platz devoted to retail window shopping and fleamarkets

2. The block S/SWof the church on the diagram for artisans/workshops. (Guildhaus?)

3. A financial district NE of the current platz on Talenstrausse, including Mirabeau Scribe and what's north of the Biergarten.

We don't want to expropriate any private property, but there isn't much in those regions. Just a thought.

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Re: Further expansion of the Platz

Post by Claude Desmoulins »

[quote="Pelanor Eldrich":2bq4oem2]Hi Sudane,

I have an idea for expanding the platz in two directions to provide 3 main platz districts. South I mean down, north I mean up on your diagram.

2. The block S/SWof the church on the diagram for artisans/workshops. (Guildhaus?)

[/quote:2bq4oem2]

The three properties to which you refer are Sudane Erato environments, Gwyn's Useless Implements and [i:2bq4oem2]my house[/i:2bq4oem2]. While north of the Biergarten is mostly vacant property, any redevelopment in zone 2 will require moving out existing landowners I fail to see how three privately owned parcels of three isn't much.

I also note that if your suggestions are added to Sudane's there will be very little residential land in the walls. I think the city proper needs to be more than a commercial district.

[quote:2bq4oem2]
We don't want to expropriate any private property, but there isn't much in those regions. Just a thought.
[/quote:2bq4oem2]

Last edited by Claude Desmoulins on Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Platz...

Post by Pelanor Eldrich »

Well we won't include your house in zone 2 and my house in zone 3. Ta dah! Zone 2 and 3 are occupied as is and that wouldn't change. Just thought it would be nice to have platz districts. I kinda wanted a financial center and artisans district without cluttering up the heavy traffic retail area. This doesn't actually change anything other than Mirabeau Scribe, Gywn's Useless and Sudane's Business would be considered on platz land.

I don't want to use eminent domain and I don't want to move plots around.

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Post by Sudane Erato »

Sorry for my incomplete map causing confusion. I'll try to fill it out with more info today, so its easier to tell which parcel, and building, is which.

The red lines encircle areas which are entirely free of current private ownership. Outside the red lines most parcels are owned. Thus the specific location of the lines.

Also, conceptually, I believe that in the context of a small parcel in SL, an artisan's or craftsperson's workshop is equivalent to a "shop"... i.e. retail. The small and enclosed space of an NBurg shop is not conducive to the actual creation of things (except perhaps scripts and documents :) ).

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Well that makes sense...

Post by Pelanor Eldrich »

And keeps Claude happy too. Maybe a division around retail vs. services?

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City Land Use Proposal

Post by Sudane Erato »

Here's an outline of a City Land Use proposal which I suggested the other day that I'd put forward. I have some maps here now which may help understanding.

Here's a repeat of the one above:

[img:lwc7h80t]http://www.tospitimou.com/Neualtenburg/ ... 12Size.jpg[/img:lwc7h80t]

First, the concept. Several important issues confront us in our new phase. Among them: (1) Prim management, (2) Ratio of revenue generating space to city supported space, and (3) Need for Public areas for events. This proposal attempts to address in one way or another all 3 concerns.

We have already put into effect a City Prim Land Reserve, totalling about 4000m2, of "held aside" land to ensure suffucuent prim capacity in the coming years. With careful management, shifting prim allocations from location to location, as they are needed, these approx 1000 extra prims should serve us well. However, setting aside 4000m2 takes that land out of the revenue generating catagory and into City-supported.

In that situation, with Kendra's departure, who had kindly allowed her private land to be used for public events, we cannot afford to hold that land off the market as well, so it has been sold. We are then faced with only 2 remaining open public spaces in the sim: The Platz and the former Altenburg. The general extent of these two areas are circled in red on the first map above.

At this juncture, Salzie introduced a concept. She pointed out that the oldest historical RL City centers are not rectilinear in configuration, but rather organic, having evolved over centuries of use transforming from one land use to another. She suggested re-thinking the shape of the Platz with this in mind.

With the conviction that retaining the Altenburg section as an open public space will be wasteful of our scarce land and prim resources, I suggest that we instead enlarge the Platz, in ways that I'll describe, forming it into our sole public space for events. At the same time, I suggest that the street arrangement in the Altenburg section be rearranged to be more organic... curved... and that that section be parceled out into residences and "off-the-beaten-track" shops. The south gate would remain where it is. The proposal to bring Gwynethstrasse thru to the south gate would be implemented.

Now, this section in fact has a very clear swath of unoccupied (meaning... owned by the City) land streching all the way to the top of Schloss hill. All land within the red encircled section on the above map is availble for this re-consideration.

This area as well would be cleared and re-parceled. But, at this point we come to some "spiritual" aspects to think about.

Neualtenburg is a community of people, sharing a collective experience. Its physical form is the location of that experience. But it's also the result of every individual person devoting effort and energy to one of the thousands of tasks and interactions which comprise the history. Only the visually most obvious of those results are the buildings and arrangements of the City today. But, as our hsitory goes on... those constructions, and the location itself, become more and more embued into the spiritual nature of the community... they depart from being "just builds" and evolve towards containing a collective consciousness of the City.

That said, different buildings, even different parts of the terrain, carry different content. As Gwyn has pointed out, the Schloss Hill originally held the chamber of the Assembly, where the first RA got the fledgling democracy going. It was later felt that the Assembly of the People (my phrase) should be located more where the people were at, so it was moved first to the old Rathaus on the south side of the Platz, and later to the existing location.

Stepping back from the streets of Neualtenburg (or flying higher, really, after turning off the fog), one can see the basic form of the City. It centers in The Platz. This, like the ancient Agora of Athens, is and should be the center for social, commercial and political interaction. Life emanates from this center.

Balancing the center on either side are the polarities of male and female, the Church as the female container of the spiritual component of life, and the elevated, upward thrusting Schloss hill as the location of the male attributes of logic, intellect, order. I am NOT refering to the qualities of individual human beings. The male and female attributes of our community energy/experience are the yin/yang of life, understood as the polar opposites which mix and blend everything in life, as they do in fact blend in Neualtenburg.

Understood in this light, the existing Schloss is a violation of the truth of the one polarity, and should be removed. It shows to us a medieval aristocratic castle... symbolizing the oppressor class, the fortress walls protecting the wealth of the owners, a vast, ornate and dramatic construction with little functionality representing the hollowness of pride and superiority, isolation from the people themselves.

I would suggest rather that Schloss hill be devoted, at its top at least, to an accessible institution embodying those qualities held in highest esteem by the community, on the male polarity of life... adherence to law, logic, learning. That it be a truly balancing component to the female church, a building which already opens its doors wide to the location of the common citizen on the Platz.

I do not have a fully realized conception for what this building or buildings should be. I'll work on that. Two images/suggestions come quickly to my mind. One is that the buildings there might be an extension of the adjacent School, perhaps with a special focus on government and/or law. Second, that the accessibility be enhanced, not only with the existing spiralling roadway, but by the addition of a large terrace looking over the City, to which people can easily fly and land, or be transported to by "tp"'s. Claude, as well, has suggested a "bridge" springing from the existing School up to the buildings on the hill.

Around and below the "Center of Learning/Center of Law" there should be residences/shops, stretching down the slopes in all directions except the north, where the existing school is located. I'll try to prepare some suggested street plans which maintain the "confused" organic quality of the City while adding considerably more revenue generating housing (or shops). These parcels would fill the entire remaining space of the hill and the former Altenburg.

Going back to the Platz. I suggested that it should be enlarged. I would suggest that Catfahrt be removed. That the building on the corner across from the Biergarten that Pelanor wishes to buy be pushed against Diderot's shop, and that that building present itself to the west as well as the south. Behind Diderot's house is Eugene's hotel, which will be at right angles to Pelanors institution. All the other empty shops along the north side of the Platz would be pushed back, into the section where Bond's former house now stands. Sudanestrasse can end there... other Platz shops can be placed against the wall next to the gate (another time-honoured medieval tradition).

On the south side, the majority of Blade Dancer Allee should be removed, and the row of shops pushed back so that they are in line with Dianne's existing shop. The one on the corner by the church would be removed. It is possible that one or two Platz shops couth be placed above and behind that row, up on the MoCA hill.

I've now got a map prepared which focusses on the two redevelopment areas. Compare this with the map above. Note especially the enlarged Platz, and also the large number of houses/shops around the small neighborhood circle which was previously Altenburg.

[img:lwc7h80t]http://www.tospitimou.com/Neualtenburg/ ... ection.jpg[/img:lwc7h80t]

Needless to say, all suggestions are heartily welcomed.

Sudane

Last edited by Sudane Erato on Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Dianne »

There is tons of material to digest here and possibly days of thinking to truly settle the ideas in my mind, but I will bring up one thought that occurred while reading it and one adjacent concern of mine regarding the Platz that I think should be "rolled in" to the plan.

first the concern:

I like the idea of the hill being used as a "Place of Learning" but the School is already that. I think that rather than be a place of learning in [i:2iwzueqh]addition[/i:2iwzueqh] to the school that also [i:2iwzueqh]links[/i:2iwzueqh] to the school, that the school itself be relocated and enlarged into the new hilltop location.

My reasoning here is that small steep lots on winding streets on the side of the hill (despite being picturesque), would be an incredibly hard sell for residential or commercial use. Conversely, the nice square flat land in the nice square corner by the lovely wall where the school currently sits is [i:2iwzueqh]ideal[/i:2iwzueqh] residential and/or commercial property just like Altenburg is. By relocating the school onto the hill (expanded and agrandised as mentioned). We free up a large amount of prime real estate for new citizens.

the adjunct issue:

Currently the area under the Platz serves as the guild "sandbox" although several people have said they thought it was my building area since I am the only one usually using it. This arrangement was a temporary "test" deal as far as I remember, and as the main user of the space I can say it doesn't really work that well. The fact that it is enclosed helps with occlusion, but it is a laggy laggy spot. Since it's no longer against the city code to have sky platforms above 500 metres for building, I suggest that the area be filled in and that a simple 12 prim platform be put out at 505 metres for building purposes. There are some problems with prim alignment at high altitudes but it would be far easier to build up there than it is below ground.

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Post by Sudane Erato »

Small point of info. It remains in the covenants that sky platforms are not allowed. (to my knowledge at least :) ). I granted an exception to the School, because of the supreme benefit of the sky platforms as classrooms.

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Post by Aliasi Stonebender »

[quote="Sudane Erato":1axn3g6i]Small point of info. It remains in the covenants that sky platforms are not allowed. (to my knowledge at least :) ). I granted an exception to the School, because of the supreme benefit of the sky platforms as classrooms.
[/quote:1axn3g6i]

On a permanent basis, anyway. Wasn't there a discussion about the impracticality of imposing this on a temporary workspace?

Also, if you could grant an exception to the School, surely the GM can grant an exception to the Guild. :P

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Post by Dianne »

[quote="Sudane Erato":1ajsbndl]Small point of info. It remains in the covenants that sky platforms are not allowed. (to my knowledge at least :) ). I granted an exception to the School, because of the supreme benefit of the sky platforms as classrooms....[/quote:1ajsbndl]Nevermind then, my mistake. I thought I had heard that they were okay as long as they were so high as to not show up on the map etc.

We might want to consider filling the hole in anyway though.

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Post by Diderot Mirabeau »

I like the overall thrust of Sudane's proposal. I also like Dianne's additional suggestion to move the School up on the hill to replace the Disney pastiche/freebie texture nightmare that is the schloss and to put some residential parcels where the School is currently placed.

At the moment it seems the School is linked to the Schloss on the hill by an implausible and possibly covenant violating floating bridge. I think it'd be more in keeping with the overall philosophy of the city to just put the school on the hill. Possibly a small academy / office for the Scientific Council could be erected alongside it to replace the function that the Schloss was intended to have. This would also be in keeping with the idea of making the hill a place of learning.

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Post by Sudane Erato »

[quote:3jgh8zb9]At the moment it seems the School is linked to the Schloss on the hill by an implausible and possibly covenant violating floating bridge. [/quote:3jgh8zb9]
Sorry about the bridge... its just a sketch. Claude has been hankering for a bridge to connect the School and Schloss hill since I started building the school. I've resisted, since I could not for the life of me figure out how something like that would actually work.

Last week he went ahead and created that oddity, calling it a "Proof of Concept" and urging me to delete it as soon as I saw it. I intended to, but wanted the discuss what I felt was the obvious problem(s) with the concept while it was still there.

So, I do apologize.

I fact, I am joining in the sense that it might be wisest to move the entire school up there, as Dianne suggests. It is totally consistent with the visions I have of the sense and structure of the City, as I outlined above. It perfectly reflects those.

And, indeed, if the building has a combined functionality with the SC, that would be even more a perfection of the concept.

I'll try to do a new sketch of that :).

Sudane

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Schloss replacement.

Post by Pelanor Eldrich »

I was a building honoring law and the SC as the ultimate expression of what NB is. It could serve as the formal meeting place of the SC, and might have a tall spire, and might either have some kind of schloss like Bavarian architecture or Bauhaus or maybe Greek revivial. I think it should be the most beutiful medieval bavarian tower you can imagine.

The idea of the schloss for me was a symbol of our fedual past. I agree that the structure has little use. Something like it should be made smaller and serve an actual function, like a mini-indepdence hall.

While we're at it, we need to do more with the Church. Events...
Same with the school and RL educator Jon Seattle has expressed interest at being rector (my apologies if we already have one).

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The Plan

Post by Jon Seattle »

I like this plan very much, especially how it re-organized commercial space and removes the Schloss and moves the school to a more central location. IMO any structure Sudane would choose or build to replace the Schloss would be 100 x better.

I should mention that I am actually a RL educational technologist and software designer -- rather than an educator. I am very interested in getting involved with education and development in the city, but would not want to push aside others who have invested their time and resources in the project.

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